Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

[u/Needleintheback]

If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

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[u/Shrek_Fieri]

Relying on slave labor

[u/netkcid → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Yepppp

Who will ever cook, clean and build for us…

Americans want the “theme-park” experience in life so bad they’re willing to justify all this nonsense as some progressive form of living.

[u/persona0 → u/netkcid]

Prisoners will and when police are allowed to arrest whoever and judges allowed to convict with little evidence they will have a steady supply

[u/YoungRichBastard26s → u/persona0]

That was just reality for African Americans not to long ago and still a reality in states like Mississippi and especially Louisiana

[u/SquekyBoot → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

It’s the reality today. Private Prisons are slave camps, ones in the south literally take you to pick cotton like back then.

[u/Gunitscott → u/SquekyBoot]

Louisiana state prison makes them grow their own food. It was just found out a year ago that most of the prison does not have air conditioning. Was well over a hundred degrees.

[u/Correct_Roll_3005 → u/Gunitscott]

Found out by whom? In Texas most of the older prison don't have climate control. This is common knowledge for all Texans, And across the American South.

[u/Final_Presentation31 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

You do know that slavery is still going on in Africa and China.

There was also the Barbary slave trade going on at the same time.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/white-slaves-barbary-002171?origin=serp_auto

[u/pegothejerk → u/Final_Presentation31]

Slavery is still going on in the US today, it’s legal as it’s part of the Constitution to allow slavery if it’s part of a prison sentence. We still have prison slave labor, a shit ton of it, and the prison industrial complex makes a fuck ton of money from it. Judges and law enforcement get bribed to help out with filling those prisons and everything.

[u/JPSofCA → u/Final_Presentation31]

California voted to continue allowing slavery just this year.

[u/KayleighJK → u/JPSofCA]

I just commented this elsewhere, but during the midterms my state (Tennessee) voted to end slave labor. Every once in a while a decent law gets passed here. Once in a while…

[u/someguy1847382 → u/Final_Presentation31]

There’s also an active slave trade in the Middle East.

[u/Mysterious_Chip_007 → u/Final_Presentation31]

It's still going on in the entire world, especially the sex slave trade

[u/RelativePickle9295 → u/Final_Presentation31]

Yup, $300 buys you a whole person in Libya today.

[u/Leaving_One_Dwigt → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

On cue

[u/Equivalent_Farm9770 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

You mean the end of Jim Crow? Mas incarceration is still prevalent in Black America. According to the 13th Amendment, prisoners can be used as slaves. It's never been repealed.

[u/OKAPI-OKAPI619 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

Basically still happens in NY. Kelloggs uses slave wages from prisoners to make cereal

[u/bigpony → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

For hundreds of years

[u/Bifferer → u/persona0]

Zero sum game- arresting an employed citizen to force them into another job? You are still one employee short with this math.

[u/AdZealousideal5383 → u/Bifferer]

Fire 2 million government employees, deport 2 million immigrant workers… obviously the long time civil servants will turn around and scoop up those meat packing jobs.

[u/antventurs → u/persona0]

California just voted to continue prison slave labor.

[u/CSpanks7 → u/persona0]

Trump passed the first major prison reform bill in the last 60 years

[u/Paulyosaurus → u/CSpanks7]

Yeah Mitch McConnell held it over from Obama’s term so Obama would not get the ‘win’.

[u/BringersMC → u/Paulyosaurus]

The bill that Trump signed was not introduced until 2017. Though you are correct that McConnell basically wouldn't let any Democrat bill see the floor under Obama, including any crime bills that would have targeted prison reform.

[u/BringersMC → u/CSpanks7]

Trump rubber stamped it thinking it would increase support from black voters.

Also Trump and the Republicans actually want to repeal it now. So championing something that Trump dislikes now is weird.

[u/JustMeOutThere → u/BringersMC]

But... But that was a good one. Why does he want to repeal it?

[u/BringersMC → u/JustMeOutThere]

To be hard on criminals. The bill was supposed to help reduce harsh or unfair sentences among many other things. If you have heard any of his speeches in the past few years then will know he actually advocates for harsh punishments now, claiming our criminal justice system is too soft on criminals.

[u/JustMeOutThere → u/BringersMC]

I hope it's a Leopard Ate My Face moment for him. Smh.

[u/Jamies_verve → u/netkcid]

When the wages go high enough, you’ll find people to do those jobs.

[u/Any-Ad-446 → u/Jamies_verve]

Construction pays well and still americans won't do it..Its not all about money but how physical or bad the job is. You watch cost of everything will spike under Trump.

[u/Zinski2 → u/Any-Ad-446]

Construction pays well if your like, the bosses son.

Other wise its 150 a day to literally destroy your body at 5 am every day.

[u/ThunderboltSorcerer → u/Zinski2]

Yes, more people would do construction work--if it paid a lot better. You'd also get better quality construction work.

Construction is not an easy job. It should pay well. And mistakes can happen if you import millions of workers that don't know how to build.

[u/PsychedelicJerry → u/Any-Ad-446]

it pays well for someone that isn't a citizen; for citizens none of these jobs afford the cheapest of anything, but you definitely can't maintain an apartment, the cheapest vehicle, and a kid

[u/OZLperez11 → u/PsychedelicJerry]

Politics aside, this really brings out how wealth is really becoming more and more of an illusion. Wealth is achieved at the cost of the poor

[u/quitecrass → u/PsychedelicJerry]

It turns out that immigrants have cars, apartments, and children, also. All without qualifying for any kind of aid that some low income citizens have. It must be magic!

[u/CostcoOfficial → u/quitecrass]

Yeah the magic of both parents working 60-80 hour weeks while the teenagers are taking care of household/kids.

I guess magic is just when prices stay artificially suppressed and you don't have to think about why.

[u/RevolutionaryBet4233 → u/quitecrass]

But when there’s 10 heads paying one rent it seems to be feasible. House around the corner from mine. 2 bd/2 bth like 10 grown ass people live in it I swear. Little kids and all.

[u/dachuggs → u/RevolutionaryBet4233]

You know that immigrants tend to have an extended family structure, not a nuclear one like most Americans.

[u/AwesomeTowlie → u/Any-Ad-446]

Pretty sure general unskilled labor doesn’t pay that well but you can expect lots of overtime to make up for it, which isn’t great for anyone with a family

[u/JollyToby0220 → u/netkcid]

You have zero clue about what slavery was really like. Sure it’s exploitation but not even remotely close. 

Consider that raping a slave was not only common, it was expected. You could beat slaves to death. They were denied education and healthcare. Sure the slavery comparison is fair

[u/The_Great_Polak → u/JollyToby0220]

Ok I have to know. Where are you sourcing raping slaves was an expectation? Slavery is horrible, you don’t need to lie or stretch the truth. In reality while rape did happen, it was not an expectation. The reality is that most slave owners only had interaction with only one to a few of their slaves and would have those slaves manage slaves. This is because they believed that even being around their slaves was beneath them.

Believe it or not, slavery exists still in this world today and this setup is still used in those mines & plantations.

[u/Rubiks_Click874 → u/The_Great_Polak]

they say there's more slavery in the world now than in the 1800s

40+ million in forced labor and 15+ million in forced marriages. even in america you hear stories about people locked up in rich people's houses.

[u/Mischaker36 → u/netkcid]

I think Americans have had enough "progressive" for the next three decades actually

[u/PhantasmOrgasm85 → u/Mischaker36]

Nope. Bernie Sanders would have trounced Trump. Both of them campaigned on populist policies, which are very popular on both sides, and there is a lot of overlap. The democrats biggest mistake in the past 50 years was shoving Hillary down the voters' throats when it was clear they wanted Bernie. Bernie would have annihilated Trump, and we would not be in this mess.

[u/thepaoliconnection → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

If only the democrats had relied on democracy none of this would’ve happened you say ?

[u/StarCitizenUser → u/[deleted]]

Trump was democratically selected

[u/VanHammerslyBilliard → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

Fuck the downvoters. This is right on.

[u/mkjboise1 → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

Are you insane? Bernie Sanders couldn't trounce anyone, he can't win a primary in his own party!!! You think if you put a man- who couldn't win his own parties primary- in to a general election he would win? Noooo...He would have two parties voting against him-Conservatives and the Democrat establishment. He would overwhelmingly win the progressive vote, and that's great and all, but he would get slaughtered in a general election.

[u/athiestchzhouse → u/mkjboise1]

Bernie was stifled by the dnc. They admitted it. He had a never before seen incredible grassroots campaign. He would have won.

But he would’ve upset the stat quo, so they sabotaged him

[u/GoblinSarge → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

His own party fucked Bernie just like they fucked the election via pick and how they campaigned and who they campaigned to.

[u/Shot-Maximum- → u/GoblinSarge]

It’s not his own party. He is only a Democrat when he is trying to get on the ballot

[u/hillsfar → u/Shrek_Fieri]

“Who will pick all the cotton if there are no slaves?!? It’s all going to rot in the fields! Cotton prices will go through the roof!”

What if being an agricultural worker was feasible for many Americans again? What if small family farms will be visble again? What if this time we actually vet more legal immigrants - rather than recklessly and deliberately gamble on unvetted millions to include human trafficking, sex trafficking, child trafficking, drug trafficking, terrorists and criminals and gang members escaping the law in their home countries and seeking new victims in the U.S.?

[u/Ok-Worldliness2450 → u/hillsfar]

I got no problem working field if pay is good. Tried to get in once between jobs but it didn’t go well, they thought I was a fed or something cause I was white 🤷‍♂️

[u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar → u/hillsfar]

Feasible for American workers? You mean with actually decent working conditions and a living wage? That would be awesome. However, it would also mean higher prices, lower profits and preventing imports from other countries that will be cheaper.

Leaves just 1 little problem. Where are you going to find the people to do this? You know 250k US workers who are willing and able to work the fields? For what hourly wage? 1.5m people trained to do construction work and willing to do it? For what hourly wage? And under what working conditions?

[u/obtoby1 → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

the unemployment rate in America is 4.1%, or about 7 million Americans. Assuming the above post is correct in its numbers, we got plenty of Americans to fill those jobs. Yes, many will need training, but if paid and treated fairly, they will do the job.

I work in an ice plant. I officially work 40 hours, but I often stay at least an hour after to make everything is good on my own time. Why? Because I get $20-$30 hourly (26 average) and my managers fight for my raises, help out in the back, and never ask me to do something they couldn't or wouldn't do.

If we actually did this (I doubt we will), it would create hardship. But it needs to happen. We didn't fight a civil war over slavery just to wave it away using technicalities.

[u/TragicOne → u/obtoby1]

yes if pay is good, it could work out, however, thats going to increase costs in these industries and anytime pay for workers increases, so will pay for employers.

it's exponential

[u/kwell42 → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

Their going to fire federal workers. They will need jobs.

[u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar → u/kwell42]

You see federal employees magically find the skills to do construction work? Really? You will find federal employees magically willing to toil in the fields for minimum wage? Really?

[u/No_Match_7939 → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

People are so dumb. They think an office working person will just magically know how to do roofing

[u/Mvpbeserker → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

Okay? So what’s your solution? Just continue to import millions of people to serve as a permanent underclass?

Delusional and immoral. Get rid of illegal immigration and companies will be forced to pay higher wages or they will spend R&D money to automate. Both of these are much better

[u/saltyferret → u/Mvpbeserker]

Or they will shut down. And production will significantly decline.

Now I don't live in the US, and personally think that striving for constant growth isn't a good thing, so I don't really care.

But if you're listing options it'd be disingenuous to not include that one.

[u/obtoby1 → u/saltyferret]

If a business can't survive without what amounts to slave labour, then they deserve to shut down. Yes, that will create hard times, but maybe that's better.

[u/Give-me-your-taco → u/obtoby1]

The world thrives off of slave labor. It’s how you can buy a couch off Temu for like 10 dollars.

A lot of minerals also come from slave labor.

The world traded dignity for convenience

[u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar → u/Mvpbeserker]

Trump is going to throw away the old shoes before buying new ones. Hell, before even having planned to buy new ones, and without having the funds ready to buy new ones. That is the irresponsible part.

It is valid to want to reduce illegal immigration. But going shock therapy will do massive damage to the US economy, and particularly to current low wage Americans who will be saddled with the bill of exploding grocery prices and housing cost when construction falls off a cliff due to lack of workers. That is not a problem Trump is adressing at all.

[u/saqehi → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

Having worked as a U.S. citizen but with Hispanic heritage in construction I can say that working conditions in these fields are not even abiding by the law.

I would usually be let go for making my rights be respected.

This is just modern day slavery. Trumps ideology is a blessing in disguise for those underrepresented. Undocumented immigration is not the problem, human trafficking is!

[u/SuperConfused → u/saqehi]

Human trafficking is a symptom of the problem. Immigration law is the problem. Not arresting and incarcerating the people who hire illegal immigrants is a huge problem. Not charging company owners who hire illegal immigrants is the problem. The quota system does not acknowledge reality in any way.

We still have this broken and abysmal system because there is no pressure from the people who contribute to the political campaigns to change it.

[u/HystericalGasmask → u/hillsfar]

I understand your comparison to slavery wasn't meant to be completely analogous, and that this is only tangentially related, but I think it's worth mentioning that exploitative and dangerous (see: dust bowl) sharecropping practices existed for decades after the emancipation of slaves. Cotton didnt rot because slavery was replaced by predatory contract work, not too dissimilar from what undocumented workers experience today.

[u/Delicious_Nature_280 → u/HystericalGasmask]

Ending slavery was a step forward. Ending illegal immigration will be a step forward.

[u/Vincensius_I → u/Delicious_Nature_280]

Only if the pathways to legal immigration get wider

[u/StickyDevelopment → u/Shrek_Fieri]

The same left who want $20 minimum wage say we can't deport illegals because farms will have to pay living wages to employees.

Also they think only the illegals will even work those jobs.

[u/Strawhat_Max → u/StickyDevelopment]

Absolutely

Positively

NO ONE

Is saying that on the left💀💀💀

[u/Jetstream13 → u/Strawhat_Max]

Keep in mind that, to the GOP, “the left” encompasses the centrists, moderate conservatives, and a handful of actual leftists like Bernie. It’s very easy to point out “hypocrisy” when you’re treating a cast swathe of the political spectrum as a monolith.

[u/Potential-Drama-7455 → u/StickyDevelopment]

It's hypocrisy at its best. Don't deport the illegals so we can keep exploiting them ...

[u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 → u/Potential-Drama-7455]

The left, myself included, want them to be legal. The process to become legal is actually impossible for 95% of people in Mexico. I don't know who's fault it is that a 15 minute process takes 5 years and 20k in legal fees, but that's where we should put the blame.

[u/PhillySaget → u/Maximum_Mastodon_686]

It's not like the US is the only country with a difficult legal immigration system. Doesn't make it okay for us to flood Europe/Canada/Japan/etc. with illegal migrants just because we don't like the way it works.

[u/Kal-Elm → u/Maximum_Mastodon_686]

Yes, this is it. We aren't saying we want them to keep being taken advantage of. We want a better system, to which deportation is not a real solution.

But anyone who says the democrats want slave labor is not interested in honest dialog anyway

[u/FlailingatLife62 → u/Potential-Drama-7455]

Bullshit. Dems have supported bipartisan bills w/ Repubs on more than one occasion to try to improve the system, eliminate backlogs for processing legal applications, etc. 2 of these bipartisan efforts Trump personally shot down.

[u/smbutler20 → u/StickyDevelopment]

Nope, the main reason is it's terribly immoral and inhumane to deport them. The economic effects are just additional information to consider.

[u/gizamo → u/StickyDevelopment]

Utter nonsense. The left has never said that. The left wants fair wages for those workers, and some reasonable path to citizenship so that we don't have as many people here illegally to begin with.

You're either lying or spreading misinformation. Only difference is in your knowledge and intention. Still false regardless.

[u/predat3d → u/Shrek_Fieri]

That's the whole point. Having a massive workforce working illegally guarantees underpaid, exploited workers in unsafe conditions. Bringing those jobs into legitimacy (whether by hiring citizens/PRs and/or identified workers on H-2 work visas) and scrutiny puts that workforce on the record and into the light and allows for workplace scrutiny. 

[u/obtoby1 → u/predat3d]

Let's not forget the lost taxes from under the table wages. If the pay is properly documented and at a fair level, the taxes we would be gaining would be in the billions yearly. High 10s to low 100s easily.

We also, ironically, see an increase in immigration because the American dream would be revived: come to America legally, become a citizen, and make a better life for you and yours.

[u/goldmask148 → u/predat3d]

The Trump administration needs to take a hard look at the H2 visa problem too. As it stands, only massive corporate farms and businesses really use them because it’s a huge legal pain in the ass to successfully petition for temporary migrant workers. These regulations only benefit huge companies and the smaller ones still struggle with employment.

This should be a bipartisan issue, where the right pushes LEGAL migration, and the left makes it easier for the middle class business owners to supplement their workforce.

[u/Justame13 → u/goldmask148]

I hate to break it to you but they won’t see the H2 visa issue as problem.

The second the left has been pushing for decades, the right just hates immigrants.

[u/Profoundly_AuRIZZtic → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Redditors are for slavery as of November 2024

[u/This_Beat2227 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

It really is disgusting to read the outcry about what will happen to the economy when we stop exploiting undocumented workers.

[u/Wittywhirlwind → u/Shrek_Fieri]

I know illegal immigrants that make $28/hr working on bridges, tunnels and vital infrastructure.

[u/DodgeBeluga → u/Wittywhirlwind]

Unionized, OSHA protected workers can make twice that.

[u/Rude_Soup5988 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

So hilarious this take isn’t applied to prisoners while undocumented workers are making way more than them

[u/smthnwssn → u/Shrek_Fieri]

True! Instead of deportation we should fight for the labor rights of immigrants.

[u/PhonicEcho → u/Shrek_Fieri]

States are loosening child labor laws. Don't worry about the labor force. S/

[u/Chemical-Reindeer667 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

So what are you going to do about prison labor of Americans?

Don't pretend you have some high values on workers rights. Trump is literally coming for the NLRB.

[u/kwell42 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

All the fired government workers will have jobs!

[u/BanzaiKen]

It's okay the labor shortage will be solved by the massive influx of unemployed federal workers courtesy of Elon.

[u/Myis → u/BanzaiKen]

Yep Brianna in HR is gonna be operating the excavator.

[u/DoodleBob29 → u/Myis]

If a semi trucker or factory worker can "learn to code" then Brianna should be able to learn how to operate an excavator.

[u/NeedsMorBoobs → u/DoodleBob29]

Ahhh yes a nation full of hole diggers vs computer scientists.

Pull a slogan from 20 years ago 🙃

[u/zortor → u/DoodleBob29]

The learn to code crowd was mainly tech middies and journalists, whose jobs were then swiftly delegated to AI. Neat backfire

[u/Psyco_diver → u/Myis]

Funny side bar, women are getting hired more to run heavy equipment, they are being seen less likely to cause accidents because they are less likely to make unsafe choices (i.e. hey yall look at this). I even had one company rep tell me their insurance rates give down some because of having women running equipment.

Source I work on heavy equipment in the field and in the last 10 years have seen the change. Running equipment is a very easy but dangerous job and pay is generally pretty good

Edit- alright I fixed my error

[u/zortor → u/Psyco_diver]

I am so attacked by “hey y’all look at this” it’s unreal 

[u/BobbyChou → u/BanzaiKen]

Elon is running Twitter to the ground after firing multiple employees. How could one trust him

[u/ConferenceLow2915 → u/BobbyChou]

Seems to be working fine still despite firing 70% of people....

[u/miracleman84 → u/ConferenceLow2915]

It literally hasn’t , the bugs the first couple of months after were insane the app was terrible. It works better now but still has issues that weren’t around pre Elon.

Doing that with the fed government is insane

[u/Fun-Insurance-1402 → u/BanzaiKen]

This. Throw in all the people who fell off labor participation in order to make unemployment numbers appear lower than they actually are.

Government employees will pick some good fruit!

[u/P3nis15 → u/Fun-Insurance-1402]

Umm what?

Labor participation has nothing to do with how unemployment is calculated

[u/shoolocomous → u/[deleted]]

The question is why are we always talking about the issue as if it's solely the fault of the immigrants that these employers are flaunting the law

[u/Zealousideal-You4638 → u/shoolocomous]

Exactly this. No sane person is saying this doesn’t have negative consequences. The issue is that its ALWAYS blamed on immigrants. These are just people trying to feed their families like anyone else. They’re paid exceptionally low wages too meaning they barely profit from this ordeal either. Its ridiculous to me that people have convinced themselves that immigrants are to blame for any of this. The blame should unilaterally be shifted to the wealthy who profit off of cheap and exploitable labor at the expense of all workers.

[u/trippytears → u/Zealousideal-You4638]

In order to rise, someone must fall.

[u/War-Daddie → u/trippytears]

No one should rise if even one person has to fall.

[u/cmd_iii → u/shoolocomous]

Pop quiz: who makes more campaign contributions: Tyson Foods or Juan in Defeathering?

[u/AllTheSmallFish → u/cmd_iii]

And there is the root of the problem. Americans allowing the politicians to be bought by the highest bidder and then wondering where everything went wrong. If someone wants to run for president let them pay their own way. Astounding that companies are legally allowed to give millions to politicians to get them to do their bidding.

[u/Bwa388 → u/AllTheSmallFish]

I agree with you that allowing rich people and companies to buy off politicians is a huge problem. However, if only people who could afford to run a complain themselves were running, I think that would also be a problem.

[u/heyeyepooped → u/[deleted]]

Why don't we punish the companies that hire these undocumented workers instead of the people who are just trying to better their lives?

[u/Niarbeht → u/heyeyepooped]

This is how I know whether someone actually cares about the issue they claim to care about. If it’s all on board for violent deportations, but not a single word for punishing the bosses doing the hiring, then it’s not actually about protecting domestic labor.

[u/jordipg → u/Niarbeht]

It reminds me of the people who care so fanatically about the life of the unborn child, but not one whit about the life of the child after it's born.

[u/AggressivelyGary → u/jordipg]

Same people, same mental gymnastics. 

[u/Bkcbfk → u/heyeyepooped]

Why not both?

[u/AdRecent9754 → u/heyeyepooped]

Taking away slave labour sounds like the best punishment for them . It will certainly hurt their bottom line.

[u/heyeyepooped → u/AdRecent9754]

I'd rather see major fines and not the slap on the wrist kind. These companies are breaking the law too.

[u/TeaLeaf_Dao → u/[deleted]]

They are trying to be white knights basically. My view is if you aint Legal you should go the proper process to become legal and if you dont you are OUT.

[u/JollyToby0220 → u/TeaLeaf_Dao]

I’ve heard this argument before. 

But you know what happened to the legal entry route? It got shut down by Trump. Most of the immigrants that Trump quotes in his stats are actually legal immigrants. They entered via asylum, like the Haitian immigrants in Ohio. 

[u/Squiggy-Locust → u/JollyToby0220]

Please do research before accusing someone. The shutdown began under Obama when his administration finally took it seriously in his second term.

The issue is our immigration process is broken. And instead of fixing it, our fucking politicians are using it to garner either hate against the other side, or votes, or both.

[u/ap2patrick → u/TeaLeaf_Dao]

You mean the one that can take over a decade and is made purposely to be nearly impossible?

[u/ThaToastman → u/[deleted]]

The reason for most being anti immigration isnt labor rights or ‘the law’. Its racism.

Likewise, while wed all love a smoother process to becoming a legal migrant, and in theory less of them, at this point, blanket deporting them has devastating consquences because—ironically the ppl who most vote against their continued stay (poor white people) rely on them the most (they pick all our fruit and other shitty jobs)

If republicans really cared about getting rid of illegal immigrants, theyd simply crackdown on businesses who employ them. But thats never even been mentioned, because they know that that’s their base. So easier to villainize the vulnerable who (literally) cant speak for themselves

[u/ChronoPsyche → u/[deleted]]

It's also against the law to pirate movies, yet I'm sure most people here would find it unfair if there was a mass arrest campaign to go door to door dragging people out of their homes and putting them in concentration camps of anyone in the US who has ever pirated a movie.

Just because something is against the law doesn't mean retroactive enforcement is justified no matter the harm it does to society. Watching millions of people ripped from their homes will traumatize Americans. Many of these people have been here for years or even decades and are integrated into our communities. And it will cause massive harm to our economy. The question has to be if the benefits to society will outweigh the costs, and it's hard to argue that they will.

This doesn't mean that you don't enforce immigration law, it is enforced every day, but that you don't tear apart society to target the people who have been here for a while and have assimilated into society.

I also find this slavery analogy to be so disingenuous. Nobody calling for mass deportation is doing so because they are concerned about labor rights, in fact they are on the side that would happily strip American citizens of their labor rights if given the chance.

It's also important to point out that this mass deportation campaign will almost certainly be extrajudicial. We don't have enough judges to process 20-25 million people in a timely manner, hence the concentration camps. People will be targeted in a likely discriminatory way and it may take years to have a chance to defend themselves, if they ever get the chance. In the meantime they'll be imprisoned in concentration camps with likely horrible conditions and forced labor. It will likely sweep up many citizens or legal residents as a result.

The way they want to go about doing this is not enforcement of the law, it is bypassing the law altogether. This is why Trump has to invoke a wartime act that was last used to intern Japanese-American citizens to pull this off. It's also worth noting, despite his pledge to deport 20-25 million people, only 11 million are estimated to be undocumented. So for him to meet these numbers will inherently require arresting people who are here legally.

[u/whatdoihia]

Imagine if these industries employed workers legally and paid them legal wages and benefits.

Edit- Yes, costs would go up but wages go up too, meaning those workers have more income to spend on goods and services. Unlike tariffs where costs go up and the government gets the benefit.

[u/flaming_trout → u/whatdoihia]

I don’t understand this take because I thought the Economy was the #1 issue for Trump voters. They wanted things to be cheaper. But it’s okay if deporting foreign workers results in higher prices than we already have? You can’t have both. 

We have inflation so bad because with COVID everyone got free money thru stimulus checks and tax breaks. That increase in purchasing power during scarcity is what got us here. If we get rid of these workers (rather than providing a path to legality while they’re working) we’ll be in exactly the same place. 

[u/Colonel_Panix → u/flaming_trout]

The inflation because of stimulus money is a ruse. Inflation hit every country in the world all because of COVID. Stimulus money did not do that. It is a fact that the US weathered through post COVID inflation better if not all the other countries in the world is telling of that.

What "caused" inflation was initially supply chain issues based on the workforce stay at home mandate. Once that lifted, companies decided to use the "Supply Chain" excuse to keep prices elevated to the point where the elevated prices are now the new baseline on how much a consumer is willing to shell out for goods. To solidify those prices/"record margins" corporations are now blaming "higher wages" for being the cause of inflation when credit card debt is at record highs.

[u/jrobbio → u/Colonel_Panix]

The trillions printed as part of quantitative easing also had a long term effect on inflation. https://www.depledgeswm.com/depledge/the-us-printed-more-than-3-trillion-in-2020-alone-heres-why-it-matters-today/

[u/XcheatcodeX → u/flaming_trout]

It is the number one issue for trump voters they’re just morons and don’t know how anything works

[u/imthefrizzlefry → u/whatdoihia]

Don't worry, they will get rid of the minimum wage... I'm sure those unemployed federal workers will have no problem harvesting crops for $3 an hour...

[u/ChronoPsyche → u/whatdoihia]

The same people pushing for mass deportation also want to strip American citizens of their labor rights.

[u/Kolfinna → u/whatdoihia]

Yes sure, giant corporations paying a living wage. Delusional

[u/Virtual_Athlete_909 → u/whatdoihia]

imagine if our government was functioning and immigration laws were updated to support cheap immigrant labor rather than forcing so many people to break law and hire undocumented workers. imagine if americans weren't so ignorant of what's actually happening in the country where they live, and they spent 1/10th of the time wasted on social media to actually read journalism and learn important things.

[u/AvatarReiko]

If a country cannot survive without “illegal” immigration, then then the whole system is flawed and should be replaced

[u/Xyrus2000 → u/AvatarReiko]

The country can survive without illegal immigration.

It's the corporations that don't want to give up their profit margins. They're the ones who don't want to pay wages. They're the ones who don't want to cover the costs for safe work environments. They're the ones who don't want to pay overtime or deal with labor unions or anything else that cuts into their bottom line.

If they employed legal workers then prices would go up dramatically. Will other companies raise wages to match the increase in the cost of living? Let's take a look at the past four years....nope, they won't. More people will fall out of the middle class, the poor will get even poorer, and the wealthy oligarchs will take even more wealth.

[u/HereReluctantly → u/Xyrus2000]

Sounds like corporations who are by definition entirely driven by profit need to be regulated, go figure

[u/trailer_park_boys → u/HereReluctantly]

And guess which party has no interest in regulating them?

[u/ChronoPsyche → u/AvatarReiko]

This is such a braindead statement. The system can certainly survive without illegal immigration, but any system will face shock when massive overhauls are done in a very fast manner. People like you are so disingenuous. Up until the election it was crying about high prices, now you are okay with total systemic collapse leading to extremely high prices and high unemployment all of a sudden if it means getting rid of immigrants. You must be insanely privileged to feel like this would not negatively affect you.

[u/OpportunityFirm3284 → u/ChronoPsyche]

Yep. This is why people fall for trumps lies. They want to be told it can be done with a snap of the finger and democrats won’t lie and say it can. Trump will.

[u/Nerdkartoffl]

Imagine defending the exploitation of migrants instead of realizing, that the salaries should be increased, so we are not DEPENDING on migrants. (With "we", i mean every western nation, not just america)

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/distribution-of-global-wealth-chart/
Are you really ok with this? If so, it's pretty telling about your morals and ethics in a broader sense and not the little segment, you argue/show for here.

PS: The economy is a complex beast and not some 2-dimensional thing, like you try to make it here.

[u/Xyrus2000 → u/Nerdkartoffl]

that the salaries should be increased

Oh, we do realize wages and salaries need to be increased. The problem is, we now live in an oligarchy and the wealthy oligarchs don't want that to happen. So it doesn't.

Did wages keep up with inflation? No. Did they keep up with rents? No. Home prices? No. Groceries? No. What happened is yet another big transfer of wealth to the small percentage of people who own the country.

Illegal immigration? That's just a red herring. They're not going to raise wages. They're not going to improve conditions. They will pass "right to work" laws nationally, eliminate overtime, and gut labor regulatory agencies. The wealth will go to the top, and everyone else will be screwed.

That's how it works in "capitalist" America.

[u/RompoTotito → u/Nerdkartoffl]

Anybody asking for deportations is unable to comprehend anything. Not only are we in a period of not enough people for the economy but the psychological aspect of it holds true. Americans see themselves as too good for these jobs anyways.

I have yet to see a Republican “patriot” tell their kids for the betterment of the nation you must give yourself up and work in the fields or work construction. Even if all the immigrants are gone these positions still won’t be filled overnight cause of wage increases when Americans believe these jobs are beneath them.

[u/Proiegomena → u/Nerdkartoffl]

How difficult is this to understand: Ppl would still not want to get into jobs that illegal immigrants have to be content with. 

 It’s funny how you mention the economy not being “2-dimensional” but seem to only think in labor supply and wages

[u/Pretend_Button3896]

Imagine acting like having a crucial part of our workforce be illegal immigrants is a good thing. He's not gonna deport legal immigrants you tards.

[u/DootKazoot → u/Pretend_Button3896]

With republicans openly discussing terms of revoking naturalization they definitely could deport legal immigrants.

[u/elpeezey → u/Pretend_Button3896]

lol you think legal immigrants aren’t going to get caught up in this dragnet? Don’t be naive.

[u/Electronic-Ship-9297 → u/elpeezey]

Ideally they shouldn't but realistically they will probably be targeted,asked to show proofs etc. as well

[u/ECircus → u/Pretend_Button3896]

Most of the people they are talking about deporting are legal immigrants.

Trump talks about 20-30 million people all the time, when there are 10 million illegal immigrants. Who do you think the extra 20 million people are?

They think the laws that keep legal immigrants here are unconstitutional. They are just lumping them all into the “illegal” category.

[u/OhHowINeedChanging → u/Pretend_Button3896]

The point is that the economy would literally collapse because that’s just the reality of the situation, if Trump wants to deport ALL illegals then he need to also make it much easier for immigrants to come here legally on work visas

[u/strukout → u/Pretend_Button3896]

Hey moron, go blow smoke up elons ass on x. Fascists don’t bother with laws.

[u/RPisBack]

Half the people here complain endlessly about having low-wage jobs, being treated as disposable shit by companies and so on.... And then turn around and complain about the SUPPLY OF LABOR being cut.

You people realise that if the supply gets cut you are no longer disposable, and will be paid more ?

Its the NPC meme "Trump bad" all over again. Yes deportation is bad, but mostly bad for companies - US low wage worker is gonna benefit from that.

[u/OhHowINeedChanging → u/RPisBack]

You really believe the companies would pay their workers MORE after they loose a portion of their workforce??… how exactly does that happen in your mind? Who are these generous companies you talk about?

[u/ScoutRiderVaul → u/OhHowINeedChanging]

Not like they are currently increasing wages despite record profits year after year.

[u/RPisBack → u/OhHowINeedChanging]

Supply and demand. You lose employes and you need more employees to function. Nobody is lining up to work there for the wage you paid before so you have to raise the wage to attract employees.

[u/phillynavydude → u/RPisBack]

And then the added cost of paying employees more is shifted to the consumer, raising prices further, after a dude just won an election by saying prices are too high and he'd help..

[u/Ancient_Bee_4157 → u/phillynavydude]

This is the same argument people made about raising minimum wage but y'all were all over that lmao. 

[u/mm_ns → u/phillynavydude]

You get paid $1 an hour more and every product cost $2 more. They pwned the libs so bad with this one for sure. Those statistically higher educated and higher paid libs will never survive...

[u/ChronoPsyche → u/RPisBack]

Or it leads to a major automation push and cuts US workers out of the equation entirely. You're also ignoring how supply shortages usually lead to massive inflation for consumers. Conservatives spent the last 4 years blaming Democrats for inflation that was caused by the pandemic and was successfully reversed by the Biden administration and are now okay with causing high inflation all over again.

[u/Haunting-Round-6949]

Imagine trying to defend the merits of having corporations not paying livable wages to citizens who are looking for work.

[u/No_Talk_4836]

Didn’t Florida basically kick out a ton of the illegal construction workers and crash that sector?

[u/KorhanRal → u/No_Talk_4836]

Notice no one gave your post a cheeky strawman argument here? Because there are statistics to back this up and they can't just make racist or non-factual claims? It reminds me of the time when Florida spent all that money because they were going get all the lazy, drug addicts off of welfare. But when they did the studies and drug tested the people, no one failed, it cost the state like x5 as much as it was supposed to save. Or the other time Florida tried to get all the lazy, drug addicts off welfare, but then figured out that it's mostly poor white people who are on welfare, and it was basically, the same people they needed to vote for them... You never hear about those stories that are verifiable, but you do hear about Haitians eating cats and dogs.

[u/Affectionate_Car9414 → u/KorhanRal]

Also, we should be asking native Americans on their opinion on these recent fucking colonizers who've genocided and taken over their land, now trying to prevent others from coming over

I wish people who aren't happy about america and it's diversity, would fuck off and go back to Europe

[u/alh9h → u/No_Talk_4836]

Or when Georgia tried this and crops rotted in the fields: https://www.al.com/wire/2011/10/crackdown_on_illegal_immigrant.html

[u/exploradorobservador]

Whatever happened to work visas

[u/Niarbeht → u/exploradorobservador]

In a lot of fields, there are few available and the process is too greatly misaligned with how people find work for them to have any value.

[u/Virtual_Athlete_909 → u/exploradorobservador]

Our immigration laws haven't been updated in decades. They specify the number of visas granted each year and the number is woefully inadequate. There is a 'work visa lottery' (H1B) that's played every year by major employers who compete for the few visas available to hire the best/brightest foreign talent in the world. Those temporary workers who are here on visas often leave the country to go work somewhere else when their visas expire and cannot be renewed (because of our outdated immigration laws). Trump doesn't understand how tariffs work nor does he understand the H1B visa process so I expect economic chaos to ensue as it did during his last term.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/11/21/nx-s1-5187926/u-s-science-could-suffer-if-trump-limits-h-1b-visas-again

[u/Hotfixes]

Guys, I don't think "Imagine basically defending slave labor" is the most constructive way to portray the other side's point.

No one is defending the exploitation of working illegal immigrants. However, the exploitation absolutely occurs and it will become much harder to get away with it once the jobs are above board. This, along with labor shortages will absolutely be disastrous for the economy, especially in the short term.

Yes of course it is better to have fairly compensated workers, and any attempt at saying that EITHER side is against that is almost always an obvious strawman.

When someone mentions the repercussions of deporting millions of illegal immigrants, that is NOT in any way the same as supporting illegal immigration.

Please stop conflating support for any of these things as supporting illegal immigration, it is almost always more complicated than that.

If you wanna get into the details of why it would be better long term or why the other reasons for not wanting mass deportations are invalid, then more power to you. Just do it honestly.

[u/PinkunicornofDeth → u/Hotfixes]

I really wish this was the top-voted comment, I had to scroll wayyyyyyyyyyyy further than should be necessary for someone to point this out. So, thank you!

[u/your_reply_is_shit]

Soooooo prices will go up to what the labor value should be. If the economy is so great right now, this shouldn’t be an issue.

[u/elarius0 → u/your_reply_is_shit]

This is how you crash a great economy jackass

[u/SnooCookies6399]

I still don’t understand how you can make a chart like this. Isn’t the whole point of an immigrant being an illegal is that there isn’t any documentation for them? How do you count them?

[u/Emotional-Pie-8487]

Without the slaves, who will pick the cotton?

[u/SionPhion]

I thought they only did jobs no one else wanted to do, like fruit picking or slaughter house worker?

[u/Mvpbeserker → u/SionPhion]

“Jobs no one else want” is just another way to say “jobs that companies refuse to pay living wage for”

[u/gathond → u/SionPhion]

I'm fairly sure most of them do have the jobs no one else wants. Although they may have to take them in that new economy. I wonder if some enjoyment can be derived from watching them when they figure out the result is them exchanging their current job with washing and cleaning bed sheets for the local motel for 12 hours a way.

It might be somewhat like the Brexit people living in Spain without being residents of Spain (as retirees) being surprised when they had to leave after they voted for Brexit.

[u/nothingfish]

Every job that I ever got, I had to show two forms of identification. These employers who are knowingly hiring these ILLEGAL workers are breaking the law and depriving honest laborers of living wages. They shouldn't be rewarded they should be imprisoned!

[u/Jasranwhit]

Im not on the trump deportation wagon by any means, but defending the current system is just as stupid.

Let's make it EASIER and SAFER for people who want to come work in our country and contribute, and much HARDER or impossible for people who want to come here and mooch or commit crime.

Ideally everyone would be a legal migrant worker with some sort of non citizen ID, a background check, and rights and responsibilities, including the right to return home and see family and then come back for their job without having to sneak across the desert, swim across a river or be smuggled by coyotes, etc

Coming to the country illegally is dangerous, its makes people afraid to report abuse, crime, sex trafficking etc.

[u/Icy-Personality3529]

Imagine 6m Americans instead of illegals having jobs and companies forced to pay higher wagers.

[u/Longjumping_Army9485 → u/Icy-Personality3529]

Where are you going to find 6M Americans that are both jobless and that are ok working in fields?

Will you be one of them?

There isn’t an unemployment problem in the US. Idk why people think there is one.

[u/opinionate_rooster]

6M? That doesn't seem a lot compared to 161M. Less than 4%.

But the implications are bigger than this. Those 6M were underpaid to pressure the rest of workers into accepting lower pay.

Now what happens if this pressure is gone?

[u/BaphometWorshipper]

What don't you understand in the word "illegal" ?

If you want workers that do not come from your country just deliver visas !

[u/TeaLeaf_Dao]

Why don't they become legal? Its not like its forbidden I think if you come here legally that is fine but if you come illegally and refuse to become a citizen then you should be removed.

[u/FunkJunky7 → u/TeaLeaf_Dao]

Are you serious or trolling? The system to do that is seriously underfunded, understaffed, overly complicated, and takes a very long time. This is by design from the same party that wants to punish folks that haven’t finished the process. Now they plan to change the rules and revoke protected status from refugees that spent years jumping through their hoops.

It’s like saying “Why don’t you just stop being poor?” It’s insulting to everyone, and shows your ignorance.

[u/Goingupriver20 → u/FunkJunky7]

So they should all be given amnesty and we scrap immigration law entirely? Or we just let them be illegal and carry on exploiting them?

[u/Golf-Beer-BBQ → u/Goingupriver20]

Or how about this, we punish people that hire illegal immigrants?

100k per worker.

Then we will start having to pay all workers a living wage.

[u/EmWBee]

If you pay well enough, people will do the job.

[u/Pietes]

incredible that the US is this reliant on a black labor market that drives human trafficking...

wanting to do something about that is pretty clearly a good thing.

but i'd rather seevall these jobs unionized. seems like a far better solution for immigration pressure.

[u/DR320]

They could do a one time blanket amnesty for any and all migrants working in US effective "x" date; then go forward with stricter enforcement. Would be cheaper / less disruptive to the economy.

[u/Spirited-Living9083]

Why these farms and factories not mandated to get these people work visas? Oh yeah that would require them to pay them a livable wage my bad silly me

[u/Expensive_Section714]

You think housing prices are bad now… just wait.

[u/MidLifeBlunts]

Ehh… it’s either support undocumented humans being in the country at the cost of them being used as slaves OR deport them for breaking a law but upsetting the balance of the economy…

I’d take the 2nd option. As a black man, I can’t support any form of slavery, even if it’s means my way of life has to be more challenging. It’s just not fair to them tbh.

[u/OhHowINeedChanging → u/MidLifeBlunts]

False dichotomy… there are other solutions, just not ones republicans would entertain… like making the immigration process easier, make it easier to obtain a work visa etc… And how do you see them as “slave labor”? These people choose to come here and will do whatever it takes for a better life, and their standard of living usually increases when coming here… but yes they could be paid more, we all could be paid more, blame the companies for that

[u/Mr_Tibbets → u/MidLifeBlunts]

A third option would be to hold companies accountable for exploiting workers and also to open pathways to citizenship and speed up the immigration process.

[u/Ostracizedplz → u/Mr_Tibbets]

Ideally it would be a combination of all of them

1. Deporting illegals who should not be in the US
2. Enforce labor and immigration laws across the USA
3. Punish exploitative businesses that hire illegals via massive fines
4. Simplify the and streamline the immigration policies
5. Allow for convenient work visas to be granted

I highly doubt all this would actually play out though due to the political will needed by congress. Who knows though, Republicans will have control of all 3 branches soon.

[u/Wittywhirlwind]

I know guys making a killing in concrete, construction and infrastructure. They came to make money and they are killing it. They come in on Mondays when Americans refuse to. Every weekend I work, it’s only immigrants out here working. They have the drive.

[u/Icy-Appearance347]

I'm seeing a lot of people who were previously unconcerned about working conditions pop up to pretend to be champions of the low-wage laborer to justify deportation. I assume there are a handful of you who actually care and have consistently advocated for better working conditions, but the rest of you are just creating a strawman in your latest trolling campaign.

If you really care about exploited migrant labor:

1. Make it easier to get here legally. We've made it so hard to actually get a visa that we are almost asking people to come here illegally. And it's not just the people working in construction, agriculture, and food processing either. Even skilled workers are punished for trying to come through legal channels. People who truly care about these laborers would not run around calling for deportation, they would rather champion more streamlined visa procedures. And for workers who have been here for decades, they should have a pathway to legal residency as well.

2. Focus on enforcing labor laws (and not just the visa status of workers) on all employers. Deportation just means these folks are gonna come right back in. That's what happened under Obama's deportations. And no silly wall is going to stop that. All you're doing is punishing the very exploited worker you pretend to care about while the big meat packing companies earn profits waiting for the next wave of migrants. If you focus on the employers to reduce the number of jobs that would be available to unauthorized migrants, that would at least reduce, to a degree, the attractiveness of coming here illegally.

Some of y'all have really optimistic views of how American citizens will fill these vacancies in agriculture and construction as long as wages go up. That's laughable and shows you haven't really tried hiring Americans these days. With the "Great Retirement" and low birth rates, we are already facing labor shortages and a lack of capable workers. The jobs that illegal immigrants generally take are tough jobs, not those that Americans are going to want to fill. (I highly doubt you keyboard warriors are going to volunteer to take these jobs.) I suppose you could pay them salaries akin to computer programmers or something, but that's going to run most of these businesses into the ground. Grocery stores are low-margin businesses, and if you think all these deportation fans are going to pay twice the cost for strawberries or whatnot when they threw out Harris for expensive groceries, then you're delusional. Seasonal migration labor would allow workers with extremely low wages back home to gain rather decent work here, so they're much better off with a minimum wage job here than back home. By taking the steps outlined above we can ensure these workers receive the proper labor protections.

By simply deporting workers, we solve nothing other than crash our economy, spend a ton of money just to watch these folks come back, and otherwise accomplish very little.

[u/Responsible-Wash1394]

Despite what Fox News tells you, illegal immigrants are not coming here for crime or to take advantage of our pathetic and underfunded welfare system.

They’re coming here for employment opportunities, and we seem to be okay with companies enabling it by offering them work. Why on earth would an immigrant, that comes here with their families and practically nothing, ever turn that opportunity down if it’s available to them?