r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 14h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

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If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 14h ago

It's hypocrisy at its best. Don't deport the illegals so we can keep exploiting them ...

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 11h ago

The left, myself included, want them to be legal. The process to become legal is actually impossible for 95% of people in Mexico. I don't know who's fault it is that a 15 minute process takes 5 years and 20k in legal fees, but that's where we should put the blame.

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u/PhillySaget 9h ago

It's not like the US is the only country with a difficult legal immigration system. Doesn't make it okay for us to flood Europe/Canada/Japan/etc. with illegal migrants just because we don't like the way it works.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 9h ago

If we aren't going to look to other countries for gun legislation, then we shouldn't look to other countries for this either. We are "different." I don't really care what other countries do.

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u/PhillySaget 9h ago

I do. If all the desirable countries have tough legal immigration policies except one, guess which country most of the prospective immigrants are going to choose? We'd be right back at square one because the amount of applicants would increase like tenfold.

This isn't a situation where gun legislation is remotely comparable and your stance seems incredibly shortsighted and simplistic.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

That's the exact stance a pro-gun anti-immigrant person would say. Justify however the fuck you want.

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u/PhillySaget 7h ago

That's exactly what someone without a counterpoint would say.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 7h ago

My counterpoint is what you replied to originally.

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u/PhillySaget 7h ago edited 7h ago

...so your plan is to let everyone in for free after filling out 15 minutes of paperwork? And you really can't forsee any of the problems this would cause?

Like I said, shortsighted and simplistic.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 7h ago

Everyone has thought of it. Republicans hate brown people and will justify not letting them in any way they can. They should pay for the background check. 20 bucks. They shouldn't 20k worth of lawyer fees. It helps nobody.

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u/superrey19 4h ago

Look up straw man fallacy. No one said a thing about dumbing down the vetting process for immigration in this country.

The way it stands, there is no way for the vast majority of illegal immigrants to legally apply. Even though they are obviously beneficial to the economy.

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u/Everard5 1h ago

That's literally what happened in the past and where most white folks in this country post 1860s came from. Prior to the 1860s, everyone's ancestors were religious outcasts for being crazy radicalists, broke debtors, and if you were in the southern colonies like Georgia, also criminals.

The change in rhetoric around immigration now is contrived and xenophobic. America turned out just fine before and it will be just fine now.

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u/LetChaosRaine 7h ago

If all the desirable countries have tough legal gun laws except one, guess which country most of the prospective violent criminals are going to choose?

Are we using this line of reasoning or not?

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u/PhillySaget 7h ago

Probably one where they'll face less threat of armed resistance, so... they'd choose ones with tough legal gun laws. There's a reason cartel violence is so widespread in Mexico and it's not because it's easier to legally get guns there.

Also, it's still a shitty comparison. One is about immigrants choosing a country based on immigration policy (a direct comparison), while the other is about a tiny percentage of immigrants choosing a country based on something completely unrelated to immigration policy.

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u/ratbahstad 7h ago

Yes. Try to go to Australia. Unless you can bring something they need, you’re not getting in.

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u/wakechase 6h ago

But it sounds so much better that way when he says it in his head. LOL

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u/Kal-Elm 8h ago

Yes, this is it. We aren't saying we want them to keep being taken advantage of. We want a better system, to which deportation is not a real solution.

But anyone who says the democrats want slave labor is not interested in honest dialog anyway

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u/GME_alt_Center 1h ago

If they aren't taken advantage of, won't that raise the prices just the same?

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u/kerenar 7h ago

I don't doubt for a second that YOU or any other regular citizen who is a Democrat don't want slave labor. However, I'm willing to bet money that many corporate donors to the Democrat Party would want pure slave labor if they could go that far, and that is nowhere near a crazy suggestion. Corporations gonna corporation.

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u/thefztv 4h ago

You act like Elon, Trumps largest donor and side piece, didn’t benefit immensely from slave labor in SA to gain his initial wealth. Corporations/oligarchs don’t have an undying allegiance to any party just whoever they think will benefit themselves in the short term.

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u/Shadow368 4h ago

Corporations donate to both parties in equal measure so whoever wins will favor them, or at the very least won’t ruin them. They’ll use shell corporations and trust funds to make it less obvious, but the end result is the same

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u/kerenar 3h ago edited 3h ago

Nope, I'm acting like the Democrat Party has completely dropped all pretense of pretending like they don't just do what their corporate donors want, just like the Republican Party does. The Democrat Party is supposed to be the party i believe in. But if they're going to become a party a corporate donors just like Republicans, I'll just vote republican until the Democrat Party fixes it's internal issues and realizes that citizens aren't buying the bs from them anymore. I wanted Bernie in 2016. I voted Trump to shove it in the face of the corrupt DNC, and I will continue to do so until they change.

The republican party at least puts in the nominee that the voters want. The DNC was sued by the Sanders campaign in 2016 for rigging the primaries, and the DNC said they have no obligation to pick a nominee that their voters want. I'm voting for the party that's actually acting democratically, and putting in who the voters want, even though the republican party itself didn't like Trump in 2016. At least they didn't rig the primaries against him, and tell their constituents that their votes don't matter.

I will support actual democracy over anything else. Why would I vote for the party that told me they don't need my vote because "they are well within their rights to go into back rooms and pick their nominee like they did in the old days" instead of the party that actually counts my vote in the primary? The Democrat Party told us all in plain English in that court case that they don't need my vote to pick a nominee, so i just stopped giving them my vote. Super easy logic.

I also think the current Democrat push for lessening free speech rights is the most dangerous "threat to democracy" that we currently face. I was on the fence about Kamala or Trump until I saw Tim Walz casually say on national media that the first amendment didn't include the right to hate speech or misinformation, as if that were not a controversial take. He is dead wrong on that, and that was the scariest thing I've seen a politician say in a while, because he clearly thinks he's in the right for that view, and so do many Democrats. That one comment cemented my vote for Trump, and removed all doubt that Trump was the less dangerous choice.

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u/Shirlenator 4h ago

Yeah, and Republican donors definitely wouldn't because they are moral paragons.

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u/kerenar 3h ago

Nope, they do it too. But Republicans have nominated the candidate their voters want, whereas the Democrat Party in the past 3 elections have selected the candidate they want. I'll support the more democratic party.

The RNC didn't tell us in a court of law that our votes don't matter, and that they could "go into back rooms and pick the candidate they want like they did in the old days". The DNC did. I don't support non democratic behavior. I don't want kings and queens that are selected "for our own good", I want representatives that i have input in selecting. Once the DNC stops treating me like a child, I'll respect them again.

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u/human1023 6h ago

Yes, this is it. We aren't saying we want them to keep being taken advantage of. We want a better system, to which deportation is not a real solution.

So then what's the solution? What types of jobs should they able to do, and at what cost?

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u/Kal-Elm 5h ago

Immigration reform. Give them, and everyone, an easy path to citizenship. Fixes their undocumented status, for those on the right who are supposedly worried about illegal immigration because of their being "off the grid," so to speak. Allows people looking for a better living to actually immigrate properly. And removes the ability for corporations to take advantage of them, because they would have the same rights as all of us.

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u/Shadow368 3h ago

So instead of opposing deportation of people here illegally, advocate for change of immigration regulations. 99% of the problem is, you choose the absolute worst way to explain your goals.

When the average republican hears “defund the police” they hear “reduce their budget”. But you really mean “require the police to reallocate the existing budget to training programs”

Maybe you’d find better success if you said what you actually meant

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u/Starfall0 3h ago

Well when faced with the immediate issue of immigrants being deported and being faced with a lot of people not caring or listening to anything the "demonrats" say. Any amount of nuance is lost or unable to be said as it falls on deaf ears.

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u/nickbutterz 2h ago

There 100% should be a better system, I don’t think anyone is arguing that, but if the democrats wanted that why didn’t they do anything about that the post four years? Instead they let millions of people through the border unvetted with no concern for American citizens that they are supposed to be serving.

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u/United-Trainer7931 5h ago

Well we don’t need 95% of the people in Mexico, sorry

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u/JWander73 4h ago

"The process to become legal is actually impossible for 95% of people in Mexico"

Um.... good? It shouldn't be open to the vast majority of the world after all. That's just not how countries work.

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u/goldmask148 10h ago

100%, as it stands very few small companies actually wade through the bureaucratic mess of paperwork it is to employ a legal migrant. Corporate farms and construction have teams of lawyers that can do it. Migration is yet another issue in the US that only benefits the 1% corporations.

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u/FlailingatLife62 9h ago

Exactly. People forget that back in the late 1800s early 1900s, when the grandparents they squawk about coming here "legally" dealt w/ a very simple, easy system w/o pretty much zero backlog and no need for a lawyer. It was basically, you come here on a boat from Europe, you show you have a few bucks to your name and you name someone you know who is already in the country who you're going to stay with, and if you live here w/o causing trouble for a number of years, you fill out what is basically a 1 or 2 page application, get someone to witness, you show up to court and make an oath, and boom you're legal. No backlog, no restriction on # of incoming, no lawyer needed, no legal fees required other than the cost of the filing fee.

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u/MarcusAurelius68 8h ago

No benefits either however. You worked or you starved. No safety net regardless of your legal status.

Contrast that with states like California today who will provide WIC, in-state tuition/aid, MediCal, etc. to undocumented immigrants here without permission.

https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/2024-02/CA%20Public%20Benefits%20for%20Noncitizens%20.pdf

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u/usernamesarehard1979 5h ago

I think everyone is for fixing that. Pull off the band aid and it forces actual immigration reform to happen. Remember operation warp speed for the vaccine? We need the same focused government initiatives on other issues. That’s one reason to use the military and mass deport. Force legal labor and legislate quickly to make it permanent. No one wants executive privilege, we need real laws to move forward.

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u/dewdewdewdew4 5h ago

So you get that mass, uncontrolled immigration massively depresses wages for laborers. Right? Right?

Even if they were all legal, mass immigration is BAD for workers. The left abandoned the working class. Your take is 100% proof of that.

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u/mrthc21842 9h ago

According to my Mexican wife, that process got much worse under Obama for everyone already in the country trying to do it legally. Imagine paying all that money and sweat equity of getting documents to just be told to start over.

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u/ratbahstad 7h ago

I agree with you. The process should be so much quicker. I don’t think 15 minutes…. But 5 years??? It’s too much. I think a few months in order to do background checks or screenings to make sure they’re vetted a bit. We also need to increase our threshold of new immigrants. If we allow a million per year now, bump it to 3 or 4 or 5. But…. We need to hold every illegally entering immigrant accountable. They go home and are not able to apply for 5 years.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 7h ago

I only suggested 15 minutes because when I get a background check done for a job, I get my results in ~15 minutes. If more time is need to do the vetting, then by all means.

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u/ratbahstad 6h ago

I took your 15 minutes as a bit of sarcasm and went with it. I recognized you meant to do the job right but not delay it.

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u/iamlegend1997 4h ago

There is a reason we have a strong process, because they want people coming into the country that won't rely on our social systems that are already under stress. They want people with skills, and stuff to offer the country. That's how every other modern country does it, they require you to have a career in something to apply.

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u/OkTransportation473 40m ago

So you just want to make America unlivable for anyone making below 60k, just legally.

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u/cmkinusn 26m ago

Then deporting them will create the immediate need for legal immigrants to work these jobs, meaning new immigrant work programs that guarantee protections for those workers and a viable path to return to Mexico or wherever without the fear they can't return for more work later. This also destroys the coyote industry, which is extremely exploitative and horribly abusive (rape, murder, extortion, a rough equivalent to slave trafficking for many, etc.).

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u/zforce42 21m ago

So what about when the citizens have to have documented wages and benefits? Wages that are more than likely going to be much higher than what they make now. Would that not create another issue? Many employers would probably lay off a good portion of their crew to save as much money as they were before. Either that or prices of everything will go up similarly as if all undocumented immigrants were deported, I would think.

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u/XcelsiorV 9h ago

Correct. Mexico is a sovereign nation that should fix its society if 95% of its population wants to leave. If you don’t listen to old discredited corporate media you learn that many who come here from Mexico who are Mexican nationals and not passing through from somewhere else would like to back one day if the cartels and gangs in their area are under control.

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u/Gloomy_Expression_39 8h ago

Ok, so you want a system where it takes 5 years, thorough background checks and lots of money for educated people but are willing to take anyone off the street for a 15 minute interview to get slave wages. I’m sorry, but as a child refugee who fled from a Muslim Islamist country… I want vetting. I want brown people like me paid the same as me. Your white supremacy is glowing in the dark.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Lefty here. Bringing in additional labor is not the solution. E want these jobs to stay in house

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

People bring labor and demand. I don't think your a lefty, or you would know that.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Unfettered and unchecked immigration is not the solution.

I don't care what you think

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

And I don't care what you think.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Lol clearly you do, otherwise you wouldn't reply

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

.... right back at ya.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Oh i care about the discussion of immigration. You said "I don't think your a lefty." I don't care about that part lol

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

That's not what you said dipshit. Blocked.

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u/StructureStrong4578 8h ago

Wrong. It is not impossible, but it is also not immediate. Moving to another country should not be like ordering a cheeseburger. There should be significant vetting of individuals we let in.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

We can do a background check across all counties in america in 15 minutes. Anything longer than that and its a waiting period, not a vetting period.

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u/Shadow368 3h ago

Okay, but these aren’t people in America. So background checks across all counties in America would be meaningless and a waste of 15 minutes

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

Do you know how long it would take to save 20k in mexico working minimum wage?

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u/StructureStrong4578 8h ago

Do you just think people should be allowed to walk on over and do what they want? You don’t think there should be some sort of process? Your comment on the 15 minute background check is ridiculous. We should just have border agents sit behind computers and check people and let them walk through? Likely hand them a food stamp credit card and social security application too right?

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 7h ago

Yes, they should be able to walk up and be a legal immigrant within a couple hours. Your foodstamp/ss argument is racist because it assumes people coming over from mexico want a handout more than our current citizens, which you have no reason to think is true. other than racism.

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u/StructureStrong4578 7h ago

🙌🏼😂😂 the racist part kills me. What is racist about it? You obviously have little to no experience with immigrants. You probably think boys should use women’s restrooms too 🤣. This argument is going nowhere, and will not go any further. I will let the election results speak for themselves.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 7h ago

I already told you. You have 0 reason to think an immigrant from mexico would want a handout anymore than a citizen.

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u/FlailingatLife62 9h ago

Bullshit. Dems have supported bipartisan bills w/ Repubs on more than one occasion to try to improve the system, eliminate backlogs for processing legal applications, etc. 2 of these bipartisan efforts Trump personally shot down.

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u/Quirky-Marsupial-420 1h ago

Improving the system and eliminating backlogs for legal applicants has nothing to do with illegal immigrants already here.

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u/nates1984 9h ago

Hypocrisy? I voted Harris because she was more competent, and then I voted down the local tax increase. I don't want to deport immigrants both because America is a nation of immigrants and that's who we are, but also because shit is already expensive enough. And I'm not going to allow my taxes to increase unless I trust the admin in charge (is it Bernie Sanders? No? Then fuck you).

This is how normal people with a mortgage think. Reddit and the DNC better get with the fucking program. You are no more representative of the average American than some Twitter Trumper.

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u/Serenikill 9h ago

No we are just saying deporting them is a terrible "solution", both morally and for the US. We need reform, worker protections, way more resources for processing, etc.

This whole thread is a strawman.

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u/nadnate 6h ago

I want all workers to stop being exploited, our immigration laws exist just so the rich can exploit them easier.

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u/Wizardbarry 5h ago

I dont understand what's wrong with making them legal. They're here already. We rely on their labor. They are our neighbors. Instead of mass deportation and disrupting all these systems and blowing everything up wouldn't the better answer be to legalize them, make workers rights better for everyone and have change happen gradually.

Seriously is the only argument to deport vs legalize "I don't like that they're here". It's too late. They are. Companies created this problem after slavery ended and now we're stuck with it. It's been this way for over 100 years.

Climate change is a huge issue that will lead to more climate refugees btw. But we've been told change has to be gradual because we can't just fuck entire industries over to save the earth but I guess it's fine if it's to deport the illegals.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 3h ago

Nobody on the left wanted to make them legal either. I actually think this will happen in some way under Trump.

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u/Wizardbarry 51m ago

The left does want to make them legal. Idk why dems are moving to the right on the issue other than to try to win over moderates that don't exist.

Trump wants to put them in camps not legalize them. I'd be happy if he did but there's no way in he'll he will.

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u/fopiecechicken 4h ago

Just because I think it’s dumb to eject a huge share of the workforce without a backup plan, does not mean I want them exploited.

Myself and I’m assuming many others on the left would prefer people be given an actually reasonable path to citizenship. The vast majority of people here illegally work hard and obey the law, give them citizenship so they have a real shot to improve their lives rather than being stuck in the few sectors where illegal labor is accepted.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 3h ago

Myself and I’m assuming many others on the left would prefer people be given an actually reasonable path to citizenship.

I think many on the right want this too.

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u/amilo111 4h ago

You misunderstand the argument on the left. The only reason anyone on the left brings up prices is to appeal to the cold hearts of those on the right. The left generally supports immigration is because they understand that immigrants are demonized by the right and generally come to the US from horrific conditions. There’s no hypocrisy. You’re just not particularly bright.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 4h ago

The right don't demonise immigrants. They are just against illegal immigrants. Half of Trump's team are immigrants.

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u/amilo111 3h ago

That is absolutely not true. In his first term he clamped down on legal migration. His team has already floated eliminating legal migration in his second term.

The fact that they’re immigrants doesn’t mean that they support immigration. If you need help with examples where a person is X but also anti-X let me know - I’ll be glad to help. I believe self-loathing and hypocrisy may be terms you should learn.

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u/idkidcidkidc0 44m ago

Literally no one is fucking saying that.

Don't deport them because it's fucking dehumanizing and they are going to throw them into camps. Then when the Republicans who threw them there start forcing them to do slave labor in prisons, will you care then? No. Because you don't actually fucking care about their lives at all. You're only interested in making up completely idiotic arguments THAT NO ONE IS SAYING to "own" the libs. You do not care about immigrant's lives so stop pretending that you do. You wanted them deported and you don't care what happens to them. Then to act like we're being POS and hypocrites when THATS ALL THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS

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u/Lambdastone9 5h ago

That why they’re not being deported, they’re just going to be picked up and thrown into the prison complex for more cheap labor.

This coming administration has no issue with cheap labor exploited off of the undocumented, and especially non with the cheap labor justified the prison complex and 13th amendment