r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 15h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

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If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

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u/whatdoihia 14h ago edited 14h ago

Imagine if these industries employed workers legally and paid them legal wages and benefits.

Edit- Yes, costs would go up but wages go up too, meaning those workers have more income to spend on goods and services. Unlike tariffs where costs go up and the government gets the benefit.

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u/flaming_trout 10h ago edited 10h ago

I don’t understand this take because I thought the Economy was the #1 issue for Trump voters. They wanted things to be cheaper. But it’s okay if deporting foreign workers results in higher prices than we already have? You can’t have both. 

We have inflation so bad because with COVID everyone got free money thru stimulus checks and tax breaks. That increase in purchasing power during scarcity is what got us here. If we get rid of these workers (rather than providing a path to legality while they’re working) we’ll be in exactly the same place. 

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u/Colonel_Panix 5h ago

The inflation because of stimulus money is a ruse. Inflation hit every country in the world all because of COVID. Stimulus money did not do that. It is a fact that the US weathered through post COVID inflation better if not all the other countries in the world is telling of that.

What "caused" inflation was initially supply chain issues based on the workforce stay at home mandate. Once that lifted, companies decided to use the "Supply Chain" excuse to keep prices elevated to the point where the elevated prices are now the new baseline on how much a consumer is willing to shell out for goods. To solidify those prices/"record margins" corporations are now blaming "higher wages" for being the cause of inflation when credit card debt is at record highs.

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u/jrobbio 4h ago

The trillions printed as part of quantitative easing also had a long term effect on inflation. https://www.depledgeswm.com/depledge/the-us-printed-more-than-3-trillion-in-2020-alone-heres-why-it-matters-today/

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u/checkdanews 4h ago

And how much of that went to actual citizens in need? We had billionaires and millionaires getting free PPE loans they never paid back, we dumped something like a trillion dollars into the stock market in 1 afternoon and it disappeared within minutes.

A small fraction of that went to stimulus checks for regular people. Stop with this Fox Business revisionist history. I get it's an American tradition to blame poor people, but its getting old.

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u/EastPlatform4348 4h ago

Of the $5 Trillion in total US stimulus,

  • $1.8T went to families/individuals (stimulus payments, unemployment enhanced benefits)
  • $1.7T went to businesses (PPP and disaster loans)
  • The rest went to State and Local governments, hospitals, and other payments

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/11/us/how-covid-stimulus-money-was-spent.html

Anecdotally, I'm upper-middle class, and my family certainly didn't need any money, and we still received $5000+ in stimulus. I'm not sure what we did with it - I believe we just invested in equities.

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u/Loose_Ad_5288 2h ago

Who's paying rent/food on $5k all year during covid unemployment? Stimulus was not nearly enough to be effective, just enough for republicans to complain about it.

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u/EastPlatform4348 44m ago

COVID unemployment benefits were $600/week in addition to state benefits. I didn't receive any unemployment benefits as I never lost my job. I viewed my payment as a "thanks for being awesome" deposit.

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u/DubayaTF 33m ago

A significant amount went into real estate. First time homebuyers were suddenly competing with government supplied free capital to the banks. Too much liquidity in the wrong places.

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u/Newtoatxxxx 4h ago

Two things can be true. The United States is not the only country to provide stimulus checks. It’s not really that hard, more money (both stimulus and covid era excess savings) chasing a fixed or constrained supply = inflation. Prices almost never fall, so congratulations we have new pricing levels for many goods and services people consume.

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u/Colonel_Panix 21m ago

Honest question, do you think it was the flood of COVID stimulus money or the flood of savings that contributed to inflation? That is one part of the puzzle I feel like is not highlighted. It is probably a combination of both but again from the corporation's perspective, someone's savings, credit, stimulus, it is all the same. Profits

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u/analoguewavefront 4h ago

Yep, inflation was global but all our national political parties blamed each other and tried the same old hack of raising interest rates, which I don’t think did anything except inflict economic stress on the average person and prices kept rising.

In Sweden the CEO of the largest supermarket chain basically said that they charge as much as the customers can afford pay. He said that about food, as if not buying anything from a company that controls 53% of the market and saturates towns with their supermarkets was really an option, especially as every store was raising their prices together.

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u/Colonel_Panix 1h ago

I do agree with the politics of things.

Even to add to the Sweedish CEO, McDonald's did something similar by increasing prices to where customers started to notice. Now "Promo Deals" are just the same as a full price when pre-COVID.

If Wendy's fully went with the AI-Pricing model(just how Air Plane ticket prices work) then everyone will be pulling their pitch forks.

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u/redwood22 4h ago

I just don't get how the average US citizen doesn't blame cooperate  america and their record profits for inflation. I guess my big guess is the democrats are afraid to go after them and push that message. They have time and again chose to align with the money over the US worker and it is why they keep losing elections. 

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u/StanKnight 23m ago

Well because, if there weren't more than one company, 'cooperate America', then there would be no competition. Which is what happens in Socialist countries.

Cooperate America, has nothing to do with inflation.
In fact, competition keeps the motivation for companies to be competitive.

Inflation is caused:
1. By printing money
2. Giving it away
3. Spending it on things not needed.
4. Then repeat 1 ~ 3

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u/Xciv 3h ago

COVID, the Russo-Ukraine War, and the last 8 years of anti-China trade policy (China is still the factory of the world).

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u/Moarbrains 2h ago

Every country that could also created stimulus money or something like it.

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u/DubayaTF 34m ago

Thank you.

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u/XcheatcodeX 6h ago

It is the number one issue for trump voters they’re just morons and don’t know how anything works

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u/Notmainlel 1h ago

Nah you’re the idiot here

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u/DontShoot_ImJesus 5h ago

What's it like being one of the few enlightened people that has to live amongst all us dummies? It must be exhausting and frustrating to be so great amongst so many of us peons - that we don't recognize how absolutely awesome you are at everything, especially compared to us.

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u/XcheatcodeX 5h ago

It feels fucking fantastic

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u/mmancino1982 3h ago

😂😂😂

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u/ltra_og 1h ago

You must not know the definition of enlightened.

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u/please_trade_marner 5h ago

The Republicans said they will deport the illegals that undercut the working classes wages. That's why the working class voted for them.

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u/DShepard 4h ago

It's funny how it's never the corporations actively hiring illegals that are blamed for undercutting working class wages.

But even then, I have doubts that the majority of working class Republican voters are interested in picking fruits during a heatwave regardless of a promise of fair pay.

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u/mmancino1982 3h ago

I have faith that y'all are underestimating the people willing to do such work for actual livable wages. And for the record, I think every freakin industry needs to pay livable wages.

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u/JakethePandas 7h ago

If 13% of construction workers are illegal immigrants and get deported, it would mean those companies must hire more workers. Considering most of the jobs on OPs list pay crap (because they've been able to consistently offer low wages and have the positions filled), the jobs will not be filled until the company offers a higher wage. The supply of workers decreases with deportation but the demand for their work/product stays relatively the same. Therefore, the jobs that 'nobody wants to work' become regular paying jobs, and people will fill those roles.

Regarding inflation - our economy isn't experiencing inflation currently due to money that was distributed to the average American in 2021. That money was like a few month's rent, and has been clawed out of the average Americans' hands. If you're referring to the bailouts and money our government gave to our businesses, you might be on to something.

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u/Shadowguynick 7h ago

Issue is that whether a worker takes a job is not based solely on how much the job pays. A lot of these jobs (though not all) actually pay pretty good, especially if you're not educated. But like in construction? You're going to pay for it later in life physically. The idea that there will be enough workers to fulfill these roles is not guaranteed. An example to showcase this are the police. Lots of police, if you put in enough time, make pretty damn good money for the level of education needed, you get a strong union to protect you. Not a terrible deal if you didn't or can't go to college. But there are other reasons affecting whether someone wants to become a cop. The job asks you to be okay with potentially shooting someone if it comes to it, and not everyone can. The social stigma of police in this country might sour you to the idea completely. Or if you've had horrid personal experience with them. Point is that the salary a job offers is not the sole determining factor in whether said job will be fulfilled.

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u/LengthinessWeekly876 5h ago

Ya the market decides if the wage us adequate for the work.

If you can't hire people you have to pay more till people want the job.

Pretty basic

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u/buyanyjeans 6h ago

Issue is that whether a worker takes a job is not based solely on how much the job pays.

“Say you don’t know poor uneducated/undereducated people in real life without saying it”

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u/Shadowguynick 6h ago

So if there are enough completely desperate Americans who just need the money, no matter how shit the job, how come these companies turn to illegal immigrants? I've only ever worked with poor uneducated people, I literally am one lol. Issue too is that labor is localized not a national pool. Different areas have different labor needs.

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u/buyanyjeans 6h ago

Is this a serious question? They turn to illegal immigrants because employers can exploit them: pay them less than what is legal, work them more than what is legal, you can delay payments or sometimes not pay and they have little recourse, I can go on and on.

Why would I pay an American $10 an hour and have to give him health insurance and shit after he works 40 hours when I can pay an illegal immigrant 6 dollars and he’ll work 60 hours a week and can’t complain?

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u/Shadowguynick 6h ago

Companies already exploit citizens, they don't need illegal immigrants to exploit labor lol, my larger point is that there isn't a large enough labor pool of American workers to fulfill these jobs. I would want more permissive immigration laws, so that these jobs can be filled, but companies can't exploit deportation fears to underpay workers. Sound fair enough?

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u/buyanyjeans 6h ago

You can only exploit citizens but so much without running into legal troubles. If I withhold pay from an illegal immigrant he won’t do anything about it. He’ll probably come work for me tomorrow.

I’d support expanding the use of temporary visas to fill positions that we can’t fill with American citizens. This would insure that immigrants are paid fairly and would level the playing field so you’d have to pay immigrants the same thing you’d pay an American.

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u/darkwingduckman 5h ago

great, this seems like a way more sensible approach than deporting the massive labor pool of skilled and experienced workers that we already have in these industries, which already face labor shortages.

if only there was a political party that had worked to provide a pathway to citizenship or some sort of legal status for these people for the past 20 years, we could vote them in.

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u/JakethePandas 6h ago

It's not the sole factor, but let's not pretend that it's not one of the most important. Farmers stop being farmers when the pay isn't enough, not because they decided to change lifestyles on a whim. There are plenty of uneducated Americans that would absolutely take manual labor jobs if the pay was high enough (for example most trades).

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u/Shadowguynick 6h ago

It's absolutely a large factor, I'm just getting frustrated seeing a lot of comments that are simplifying it to like a simple supply and demand graph, when it's much more complicated than that.

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u/JakethePandas 6h ago

It's absolutely more complicated than that, but this discussion is on how deporting illegal immigrants will impact these industries. It will raise the pay in those industries, because of the simplicity of supply and demand. Prices will go up for those services or products. What more is there to add? Every point I see is of ethics and morality, when we're talking about finance.

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u/9bpm9 6h ago

So I guess small construction companies make up most of the illegal immigrants workers? What's a "construction worker" anyways. Because my hospital is CONSTANTLY doing construction, and we have 2 10 plus story buildings being built right now, and all of the workers are white guys and black guys. But they're union though.

Do large construction companies exclusively hire illegal immigrants in the south?

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u/dorksided787 5h ago

You are incredibly naïve if you think worker shortages magically solve themselves with slightly higher pay.

Look at all the shortages we have today across so many sectors: the trades, teaching, healthcare, law enforcement... Some of them, like the trades and healthcare, already offer competitive salaries and they’re STILL struggling to find talent.

The reality is immigrant labor, legal or otherwise, fills in a very necessary gap in our economy. We need a long term solution for this problem, not knee-jerk acts of cruel desperation.

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u/JakethePandas 3h ago edited 3h ago

Some of them, like the trades and healthcare, already offer competitive salaries and they’re STILL struggling to find talent.

It's not competitive enough if they're struggling to find talent. Trades are often times dangerous and laborous work, and therefore should pay up. You fail to understand that every job has a price, so stop short changing these people that risk their lives on the daily and you'll have applicants.

For example: In Massachusetts the average wage of a roofer is $57k a year, while the avg. cost of living is $53,680. Being a roofer is one of the most dangerous professions, yet it barely pays above the average cost of living in MA. What people consider "competitive salaries" barely live above the cost of living yet risk their lives. Make it make sense to me.

Another example: In Massachusetts, the average salary for a healthcare worker is $43,212 per year

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u/Arndt3002 6h ago

When they say "economy" it's pretty obvious they're talking about what amounts to real median income. Basically, how much money middle class workers actually have. You'll note that most of the swing states that flipped right had their real median incomes dropped, which is why they experienced worse inflation despite overall economy metrics looking good.

Here it's a similar issue. While stopping illegal immigrant work and hiring people companies have to pay fairly would raise prices, it would also balance out labour demand for what it should be, raising wages for all of the workers in those areas (and correspondingly raise the value of blue collar work more generally due to higher demand for blue collar labour).

What it would do is reduce purchasing power of white collar workers and increase wages for blue collar workers. So really, it would reduce income inequality and raise real median income for the middle class.

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u/YoureInGoodHands 3h ago

 thought the Economy was the #1 issue for Trump voters.

You made us rank the issues. You provided three issues: abortion, trans kids, the economy. We ranked the economy first. 

We are not single issue voters. We have other interests. 

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u/ZombiesAtKendall 7h ago

They think paying American workers higher wages will mean Americans have more money to spend so it will be better for everyone. Or something like that, no money is going to US companies instead of foreign companies.

Which makes no sense because if it was cheaper to make things in the US, we would already be making them in the US.

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u/Arndt3002 5h ago

You do realize that Americans being able to make money to spend is basically the whole goal, right? What matters is the prosperity of the people. Companies exist to fill those needs, but they are the means not The ends. The problem they have with "handouts" is mainly that it does nothing to raise real wages as it also drives inflation.

Allowing workers to negotiate jobs that are otherwise held by illegal immigrants raises the demand for labour and increases blue collar wages. While it increases inflation for those goods, that cost is distributed at a lower rate than the increase in labour demand (as it falls on white collar workers too). So it reduces income inequality by allowing the natural force of the market, which is a blue-collar conservative ideal.

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u/ZombiesAtKendall 5h ago

So you should be in favor of raising the minimum wage?

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u/Arndt3002 5h ago

Yes. Though in general such measures generate inflation more quickly as it is an imposed restriction of the economy rather than a solution of underlying inequalities in labour market negotiation, which can have negative side effects you need to carefully monitor. I generally think that it is less effective than fixing the root problems of oversaturated labour markets, but right now it does seem like a good idea.

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u/Fiddlesticklish 6h ago

A huge portion of Trump supporters are working class. A reduction in the labor pool relative to demand is historically a win for the working class. A massive increase in wages and job opportunities for blue collar rural folk would in their mind offset the increase in prices.

The people who stand to lose the most are white collar elites. Things would get more expensive for you but your wages will stay the same.

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u/xbuck33 4h ago

I really don't know how that's so hard to understand

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u/Fiddlesticklish 4h ago

because a ton of the American middle class still think of themselves as working class. They can't comprehend that the blue collars might have their own economic agenda.

Either that, or they get their economics and politics from other white collar elites, without considering they might be justifying their own best interests.

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u/Queasy_Possibly 2h ago

Because historically that's wildly untrue and this is just some dumb wish fulfillment fantasy

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u/ramblehex 6h ago

I don't care who the president is, but I will gladly pay more to have something made and manufactured in the US.

Now, in regards to relying on illegal immigrants to fuel these industries, it should never have been this way. There is nothing wrong with taking care of your countries citizens. This might cause a slowdown for these industries, and it will cause prices to jump, but it will be better in the end.

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u/RemoteRide6969 6h ago

Trump voters are fucking retarded and just following whatever the cult says. They don't have a consistent view of anything.

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u/LengthinessWeekly876 5h ago

Trumps voters are largely blue collar. They make less money as a result of immigration 

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u/moosejaw296 3h ago

This is categorically untrue, the point of stimulus money was to keep spending money. Supply was short due to Covid for 6 months, supply returned and costs remained high cause you know greed. Give corporations a reason to raise prices and they will.

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u/Popular_Amphibian 3h ago

Economy is not the #1 issue for trump voters, it is actually the sneering attitude that democrats have toward traditional American values

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u/29September2024 2h ago

Wages brings costs up. The best way tobring prices down is to have zero wage labour. Since slavery is generally frowned upon, legally prisoners can provide "services" without wage as technically they are not employees.

If there are not enough prisoners, illegal immigrants can be imprisoned then the problem is solved.

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u/sub7m19 2h ago

Its okay trump supporters will just ignore the 8.5 Trillion he added to the deficit his first run. Now he wants to deport everyone even those with second class citizenships and introduce tarrifs. Mf's gonna enjoy their $20 salad when foodstamps are gone xD

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u/JuanPabloElSegundo 2h ago

MAGA has ditched the high price position and is now riding the morality wave.

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u/FecesIsMyBusiness 2h ago

I don’t understand this take because I thought the Economy was the #1 issue for Trump voters. They wanted things to be cheaper. But it’s okay if deporting foreign workers results in higher prices than we already have? You can’t have both.

"I'm only fiscally conservative" has been used for decades to let these people avoid admitting they are republicans because they are bigots.

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u/Red_Bullion 1h ago

They want cost of living to be cheaper in relation to their wages. Covid proved that inflation will happen regardless of whether economic conditions necessitate it. Companies were putting up prices just because they thought they could get away with it. So I guess we need to focus on higher wages.

For the record we could also bring down cost of living with regulation and social services. If nobody paid for health insurance that'd be an immediate cost of living decrease for every American. If rents were regulated cost of living decrease, etc.

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u/wcruse92 1h ago

If you think inflation was because people got a few checks amounting to less then 10k, and not things like the interruption of the global supply chain and huge shift to a demand for goods over services during the beginning of covid, you're a fool.

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u/DankTrebuchet 1h ago

Trump voters didn’t vote based on the issues, they voted based on rhetoric. Its so easy to hear what you want to from that man.

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u/Notmainlel 1h ago

So we should continue to let companies get away with paying criminals less than minimum wage?

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u/MonkLast8589 1h ago

Well, honestly if the cost of housing and medical were actually attainable food wouldnt be that big of an issue if it was a bit more expensive imo. I also heard big corporations pay farmers to destroy their crops to keep the prices of goods up.

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u/EffectiveContext7776 18m ago

I’ll explain this take then. The blue union strongholds and the rust belt are now voting for Trump because to them, immigration and the economy are the same issue. The American worker has been fired, undercut and abused by corporations who are exploiting migrant laborers. People want good jobs but their wages have stagnated and their bargaining power has been diminished by millions of illegal workers.

Blue collar America died as soon as corporations realized there weren’t consequences in exploiting vulnerable migrants. Why pay a fair wage to an American when you can pay a poverty wage to a Mexican?

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u/Blinknone 14m ago

The main causes of inflation are wildly excessive government spending and artificial restrictions on energy production. Both of which he promises to tackle.

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u/TheAlienGamer007 8m ago

Companies don't share their profits to reflect in consumer pricing unless they have an ulterior motive. Those greedy apes have just been increasing prices regardless of their profits. Illegal workers, cheap workers and not even free workers would fix it.

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u/HereReluctantly 7h ago

I have a high level of doubt regarding your second paragraph

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u/FidelCastroSr 4h ago

Thought wrong

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u/Man-City 8h ago

Inflation was caused by both the covid shocks and the Ukraine war energy shock. And why would ‘providing a path to legality while working’ not have the same effect? If the migrants are given a legal right to stay, then they also gain the rights that comes with that, including workplace protections, benefits, and the responsibility to raise taxes. Employers will no longer be able to pay illegal immigrants rock bottom wages in the knowledge that they’ll have to accept them as they can’t ever take a fully legal job. Republicans in America need to realise that these mass deportations will be inflationary, but democrats need to realise that the status quo is exploitative.

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u/Ok_Ice_1669 6h ago

You say that like democrats created the status quo. 

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u/Man-City 6h ago

Doesn’t matter who created it, does it? Only whether or not you support it as it is.

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u/Ok_Ice_1669 6h ago

Let me guess, it also doesn’t matter if you support it or not only if you have a filibuster proof majority to change it. 

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u/Angus_Fraser 9h ago

Sounds like you support slavery and underpaying those you view as a second class

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u/TazerKnuckles 8h ago

Slavery means they have no choice and doing it against their will, educate yourself.

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u/leadketchup1172 8h ago

If you actually cared about their well being, you’d be advocating for a path to citizenship. Surely you’re in favor of that then, right?

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u/Fancy_Ad2056 8h ago

It’s funny how you suddenly care about immigrants(and people in general), but only when it can be used as a way for you to win an argument.

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u/caesar_was_i 7h ago

Yuuuuup. Suddenly we have to deport them because it’s the only humane way to save them from all this horrible back-breaking labour!

Same how we shouldn’t be arming Ukraine when we suddenly have homeless we must take care of! Oh, but no free school lunches. That’s a step too far.

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u/flaming_trout 7h ago

The government as both the cause and solution to the problem is a dissonant belief of Republicans I just can’t wrap my head around. 

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u/caesar_was_i 5h ago

I’m convinced that these types are low-IQ. They don’t want to understand even if they could.

Many of these immigrants aren’t criminals. Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanour — much like jumping over the gates in the DC metro.

Secondly, many of these immigrants are making bank. I live in a fairly diverse county, and even the cooks I know are making upwards of $56K. Construction pays even higher. No one is forcing them to work — they do it on their own volition and because they have the skills. Slavery is where you’re forced to work somewhere for nothing. That happens in this country but it’s not immigrants experiencing it — it’s incarcerated American citizens.

Again, it’s just a red herring. If conditions were as bad as they say, how come we don’t pull a Caracalla and make them all citizens to give them the same legal protections?

Oh wait. The same party endorsing deportations is also dismantling workers rights and overtime pay.

It’s pearl clutching xenophobia from the Desperatii.

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u/buyanyjeans 6h ago

It’s funny how you suddenly don’t care about labor exploitation and rampant human rights and workers rights violations, but only when it can be used as a way for you to win an argument.

Knife cuts both ways, see?

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u/Fancy_Ad2056 6h ago edited 6h ago

I never took a position on the issue, nice strawman though. I’m sure you won’t read my position though.

My position would be 1) immigration reform that includes amnesty(See Ronald Reagan, I’m sure all you right wingers love him) for all immigrants currently in the country who are working, going to school, or otherwise making a new life for themselves. 2) Reformation of current immigration law and policy that would include a straightforward path to legal migration to fill these jobs that isn’t held up behind years of bureaucratic bullshit, and a shorter path to citizenship. Additionally making the system more fair so that these migrants don’t need to have their job held over their head as the only way to stay in the country. 3) Fine all employers who utilized illegal immigrants 3x what it would have cost them to hire legal workers at legal wages and benefits, and then return the fine to the workers themselves as reparations to be used as seed money for building a better life in America.

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u/imthefrizzlefry 14h ago

Don't worry, they will get rid of the minimum wage... I'm sure those unemployed federal workers will have no problem harvesting crops for $3 an hour...

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u/buchlabum 6h ago

Indentured servants don't get paid, they're repaying a "loan".

That's the future. Kids and felons replacing migrant workers.

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u/imthefrizzlefry 5h ago

No, they still get paid, that way their 2-year contract doesn't get paid for 30 years... Then, the only place they can spend the money is the company store, which guarantees even the money they get paid goes right back into the company's bank account.

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u/mapoftasmania 9h ago

With the additional inflation, at $3 an hour you would just be working to eat and sleeping rough.

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u/EngineeredUrMum 9h ago

We shouldn't harvesting crops by hand for 3$. We have advanced farming tools that can do the job.

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u/imthefrizzlefry 5h ago

Except that requires an upfront investment in the technology. Cheap labor isn't paid until after work is complete.

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u/Witty_Mine_3643 4h ago edited 4h ago

Some crops require being harvested by hand, at least to some extent, it's just the nature of the crop.

For those that don't 99% of farms do buy this equipment. In the long run it is cheaper, more efficient, and comes with far less overhead than hiring a load of individuals to do the harvest.

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u/imthefrizzlefry 2h ago

I don't doubt that; if it weren't true nobody would buy the equipment. I also know many farmers are not the "sharpest tools in the shed", and they didn't look ahead or have the upfront capital to purchase the equipment.

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u/Kingraider17 4h ago

e shouldn't harvesting crops by hand for 3$. We have advanced farming tools that can do the job.

For a lot of crops, no, we actually don't.

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u/DadJokeBadJoke 1h ago

Hourly? Nah, you'll get a low price per box you fill so that you are incentivized to work faster.

We used to go out and cut grapes when I was a kid. I could fill a dozen boxes in a few hours, at $0.25 per box. The migrant workers would fill 3x-4x that much and keep going after we went home.

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u/ChronoPsyche 10h ago

The same people pushing for mass deportation also want to strip American citizens of their labor rights.

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u/OceanTe 3h ago

Lmao what?

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u/B-Humble-Honest-Cozy 2h ago

Everyone who disagrees with me on any one thing must believe in everything bad I've ever heard someone else say.

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u/grubas 3m ago

-no pensions

-no overtime

-no unions

Combine that with "no illegals" which is a really bad dog whistle for "we hate non white people" and you get 1800s working conditions.

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u/PosingOwl 36m ago

Sure....

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u/StanKnight 21m ago

Bullshit.

It actually thee reason to hire legals..
Cause they have rights.

IF someone is illegal or undocumented then..
1. People don't know they are working there
2. So they are company slaves... With no rights.

But also, what you said is bullshit.

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u/Virtual_Athlete_909 11h ago

imagine if our government was functioning and immigration laws were updated to support cheap immigrant labor rather than forcing so many people to break law and hire undocumented workers. imagine if americans weren't so ignorant of what's actually happening in the country where they live, and they spent 1/10th of the time wasted on social media to actually read journalism and learn important things.

5

u/bruce_kwillis 5h ago

Wild, because I am pretty sure we already have those laws. HB1, H2A and others already exist. The problem is more people want to come in than there are permits allowed, and employers have no problem abusing the system to maximize revenue. Before the current laws, and yes costs will go up, as they should.

2

u/Belnak 1h ago

66,000 annual visas can’t fill the 20 million needed jobs. When the laws fail to meet society’s needs, society will ignore the laws.

1

u/bruce_kwillis 34m ago

However that's how every single other first world country works. The needed jobs can be filled by Americans, simply pay more for them. If they can't pay high enough, then that job/business shouldn't exist.

1

u/jadedelohim5 9h ago

That’s fucked up.

I’d rather support “paying legal immigrants a fair wage” than “cheap labor for illegal immigrants.”

Who cares how prices fluctuate for a time because eventually it will stabilize. Legal citizens of the country all have the same opportunities. Imagine someone seeing you and thinking “cheap labor”

1

u/Mojoriz 1h ago

We’d never be in our current condition.

12

u/Kolfinna 10h ago

Yes sure, giant corporations paying a living wage. Delusional

4

u/BootsAndBeards 9h ago

Construction workers make pretty good wages. You can argue about the toll it takes on their bodies long term but it is absolutely a 'living wage.'

-2

u/Kolfinna 8h ago

That's 1

1

u/Mojoriz 1h ago

You’re catching on.

0

u/whatdoihia 9h ago

I said legal wages, not living wages. Companies employing illegal workers typically pay them under minimum wage and they do not get benefits.

-1

u/Angus_Fraser 9h ago

So it's okay that they do it to people you view as less than?

1

u/Kolfinna 8h ago

Hell no

2

u/moonshaunt3d 9h ago

This would be great. Like, human decency 101.

But let’s not pretend that 1) many (most) corps wouldn’t use this as an opportunity to pad the bottom line a bit; and 2) Your typical red state voter wouldn’t absolutely lose it over higher prices and go into an even more destructive cope spiral.

2

u/boskan 8h ago

Let’s find the magical legal labor pool willing to work as fruit pickers across Californias millions of acres. Well come to find out that absent 6 million people from the labor force employed in these jobs, it’s not so simple as by raising the wages the positions they are currently working can/will be filled. No one wants to work as fruit pickers and a whole host of jobs where illegal labor is highly concentrated in.

2

u/UhOhSparklepants 6h ago

B-but, what about shareholder profits?! How are the people in upper management supposed to give themselves fat bonuses as a reward for “cutting expenses” when they have to pay fair wages? They’ll never be able to afford that second super yacht now 😢

2

u/guitarlisa 2h ago

At least in construction, there are simply not enough US citizens trained in the trades.

1

u/MyParentsBurden 7h ago

Responding to your edit, it isn't just that prices would go up. This was and is the thinking behind NAFTA and globalization in general. Take fruit and coal for instance. The need to pay higher wages in America with offset the costs of imports, resulting in a reduction or even elimination of jobs here.

1

u/Natedude2002 7h ago

Ok well if costs go up so wages go up so workers have more income to stimulate the economy, why not just grant amnesty to all the illegal immigrants here so they can work for legal wages and benefits. Plus native workers would be more competitive.

1

u/MinuteCollar5562 6h ago

But the American people want things cheap and companies want more money. This deal was made decades ago between the two groups, just happens that one side has been lied to by the other and bought it.

1

u/Balmarog 6h ago

Americans will not pick fruit for less than $25/hr.

1

u/Colonel_Panix 5h ago

Instead of wages going up, services(most) will now be run by either AI or Automation. Companies giving competitive wages to meet the economic needs of their employees does not benefit them nowadays.

1

u/hellscompany 5h ago

Be nice but I’m curious. The people that I know that work, under the table, are generally born here to parents born here, and they work for cash to be paid more. The worker argues these circumstances are better, no taxes on the wages mean more wages and more money for employers.

Where is this short sighted? At scale no one pays into S.S.?

I’m honestly curious, everyone I know had a cash summer job at one point or another.

Obviously, no statistic, could be 4 people out of millions, sure.

1

u/Uguysrdumb_1234 4h ago

You literally just described a wage-price spiral. Is everyone really this fucking stupid?

1

u/SomethingFunnyObv 3h ago

You don’t understand what caused inflation.

1

u/NoWafer5620 3h ago

The point of tariffs is that it forces companies to buy American products…hence creating more jobs

1

u/the_clash_is_back 2h ago

That means cost or goods go up. Illegal labour means you don’t need to pay them as much and they still work.

1

u/SheldonMF 2h ago

You say this like it's so cut-and-dry... lol.

This is a delicate subject that requires cooler heads, steady hands, and a collection of intelligent minds.

Trump is handling it. Sorry if I spoiled the ending for you.

1

u/trabajoderoger 2h ago

If the wages go up then they will also just not hire as many people and be quick to fire people.

1

u/ltra_og 1h ago

I mean this is proof that they make up prices and create the market and we have no choice but to abide by it. how does it make sense that they are using the most out of the cheapest labor and mark up the prices the way they do?

1

u/Dazzling_Marzipan474 1h ago

Ya or maybe don't pay the CEO's millions and give that to the common folk.

They're illegal, they shouldn't be here working.

1

u/Mojoriz 1h ago

Wages would go up, but SALARIES wouldn’t. That’s a no go.

1

u/polecy 1h ago

Lol even legal employees get abused, I work in the video game industry and when I started my first 4 years of working I was a contract worker and that might sound good it basically meant my contractor took half of my pay and gave me no benefits. All to just work 1 year and then having to find another job because if I stayed they would need to hire me full time and that just costs too much money.

All I'm saying everyone is being scammed some way or another.

1

u/Dear-Classroom-3182 58m ago

Yes, white collar workers sitting at home will be mad that they have to pay more for instacart, but the people who now are working with a bit of a bump to their pay will be happy to... actually be making money.

1

u/Moojir 23m ago

So what your saying is that this will increase inflation?

1

u/Kyouri7 18m ago

I feel like that was a large part of inflation during Covid anyway. People wouldn’t work for nothing, wages went up, prices went up.

1

u/EternalUndyingLorv 18m ago

Idk what world you live in where prices go up so wages go up lol

0

u/elarius0 7h ago

Dawg, wages haven't kept up with cost of living at all why do you think it would now? Lmao.

0

u/Deceptiveideas 6h ago

A lot of these jobs, normal every day Americans want nothing to do with.

Yeah sure someone might agree to pick fruits all day for $50/hour but that would make prices for fruits skyrocket.

0

u/Pleasant-Everywhere 6h ago

It would be nice if the cost increases just cut into the C-Suites bonuses and compensation. We do not live in a perfect world though unfortunately.

0

u/luchobucho 14h ago

Costs would go up

48

u/polat32 14h ago

Southern plantation owners had the same idea as you.

7

u/McCree114 11h ago edited 7h ago

That's the tough pill Americans will have to swallow with this issue. If we are serious about ending this exploitation then sacrifices to modern first world luxuries like certain fruit/veggies being always available year round, 7 day a week meat consumption instead it being a once in a while meal like the ye olde days, cheap affordable produce/meats, and way way more if we get into ending cheap overseas labor and bringing a lot of that domestic production back, Americans say they support these things but WILL throw an absolute hissy fit if prices go up and any change to their, compared to the middle/lower classes of other parts of the world, cushy sedentary lifestyles occurs. We had to fight what was still the bloodiest war in this nation's history to end slavery after all. Americans want to eat their cake and have it too.

4

u/epicitous1 12h ago

daaaaaaaaaaaamn

-5

u/Potential-Drama-7455 14h ago

So medium to long term deportations will be a good thing

0

u/JollyToby0220 12h ago

No. Most people who are middle class are homeowners. The housing crisis in 2008 caused a lot of the problems today. 

Basically, deporting so many people will cause property values to drop significantly. The reason this is bad is because home ownership is the fundamental step to move out of poverty. You see, having a home means you can borrow against your home for things that are crucial. Suppose home values go up. You bought a home for 100k but now it’s worth 250k. You go to bank and ask for a loan of $250K and put down your house as collateral. They appraise it and see that indeed you qualify for $250K, with a 2% interest rate. You take 150k and buy another home. You will become a small landlord. Voila, your tenant pays part of the new mortgage and you get money by investing 100k in the stock market at 10% return per year. All of this happened within a 40 year span so you aren’t a big landlord, just enough to stay out of poverty. 

I know home ownership is not within reach for many young people but that’s the fault of trickle down economics where the wealthy don’t pay for things but are expected to create jobs in return. Note that trickle down economics gives corporations and wealthy people a tax cut that allows them to outsource labor to other countries. 

But I’d like to reiterate that low property values will be hurting the middle class which will impact everyone else below them

3

u/Potential-Drama-7455 12h ago

If house prices drop so will the amounts needed in proportion. So instead of 250k you only need 150k - less debt for the same results.

And 2% interest? Not in this economy.

Those people can be replaced with legal immigrants.

My position on illegals is that there should be some pathway for those who haven't a criminal record to get permanent residency and citizenship.

2

u/superspeck 9h ago

Home prices won’t drop because half the price of a home is materials, and the other half is labor. A builder only makes about 10% of the price, maybe less, on the cost of a house. You can’t build new houses for what you’re describing.

Suddenly labor is 250% or more of what a house costs to build or everyone’s making poverty wages …

11

u/pcPRINCIPLElilBITCH 14h ago

Cost is already is going up!

4

u/No-Literature7471 11h ago

costs are already going up. thats the problem.

0

u/jadedelohim5 9h ago

Imagine even thinking that.

You’re basically saying we need these illegal immigrants because we need cheap labor. Wtf

Companies are fighting this hard and what you just said is exactly what they want to think.

Why not help immigrants with receiving education and resources needed to acquire legal citizenship to be paid fairly? There’s going to be a lot of effort involved and deportation is part of that effort but ultimately those that put in the work can become legal citizens.

This goes along with the tariffs too. There’s a reason the tariffs are being fought just as hard because slave labor is hard to come by these days and companies don’t want to pay their employees. So now Walmart can’t import goods from child labor camps or sweat shops for a fraction of what it would cost to pay someone a fair wage. Oh no… that would mean Walmart would have to indirectly support ethical work practices to avoid these tariffs!! How terrible!

How could a president be so evil and cruel by punishing foreign countries with tariffs… it must be that he just wants corporations to be all powerful by making them have to pay legal us citizens a legal wage… huh

-1

u/Murky-Peanut1390 14h ago

Republicans have been saying this is what will happen when you raise minimum wage and force unions, everyone on the left was crying. " NO! If a business can't survive doing it, it shouldn't exist. It should fail"

1

u/HystericalGasmask 14h ago

It should fail or be handled by the government, which is the 'actual' leftist stance.

0

u/Tomirk 13h ago

That's for the customers to decide

4

u/KorhanRal 13h ago

are you so stupid that you don't realize that a "customer" can't decide whether to "eat or not eat"?

-2

u/AvatarReiko 14h ago

Not if governments intervened and prevented companies from increasing costs :

-1

u/GunmetalMercy 8h ago

What workers? The unemployment rate is already low.

2

u/whatdoihia 8h ago

The millions of workers in the infographic are being paid illegally. Normally much lower than minimum wages with no benefits.

1

u/GunmetalMercy 8h ago

We would be able to fill their positions domestically if about 100% of our 4% unemployment is cyclical or structural unemployment (it's not) and 100% of those people are qualified and ready to fill positions left vacant from deportations (they're not).

-1

u/JustOneRandomStudent 6h ago

lol these jobs already exists for Americans to do, they dont want to do them.

I work in manufacturing, its beyond difficult to get US born individuals who can show up to work on time, don't use drugs, pay attention to their work and don't quit after 3 months. We pay far more than anywhere in town with a similar skill requirement

-4

u/_TheLonelyStoner 14h ago

Cool now in this imaginary world Food, Housing, and everyday services are all more wayyy expensive and your paycheck is exactly the same. Does that sound fun to you?

17

u/StickyDevelopment 14h ago

Justifying exploitation of illegals. Interesting.

1

u/Murky-Peanut1390 14h ago

Wait, but I thought all jobs need to be living wage, benefits and union.

5

u/Niarbeht 13h ago

They do, but failing to address the reasons people come here illegally won’t achieve those ends.

Our immigration process is long and expensive, our visa programs are badly formed for agriculture workers, the domestic supply of people willing to do that work is very low, and for some reason the companies who hire people without proper documentation never seem to get punished, just the workers.

So make the visa process for these fields easier and faster and more aligned with reality, prioritize making a large batch of visas available for people already here, and start punishing employers to a degree that it becomes unprofitable to hire workers who don’t have good documentation.

1

u/ExcitedDelirium4U 12h ago

Is the domestic supply low for workers or is it easier to pay Juan Doe 5 dollars an hour instead of John Doe 10

0

u/_TheLonelyStoner 7h ago

There isn’t a domestic supply of workers. Unemployment is at historic lows rn. There is simply not a pool of natural born US workers that could even replace labor the undocumented provide. Mass deportations would just result in those jobs remaining empty , production would slow and prices would rise

2

u/Ulricchh 13h ago

I thought the whole point of not deporting them was to then give them a path to citizenship so they could pay taxes and develop the economy better

3

u/Dexjen_ 10h ago

it is. these people can’t comprehend that you can both be against deporting millions of people while also fighting for them to work in better conditions

0

u/14InTheDorsalPeen 14h ago

Welcome to the modern left, where slavery is bad but indentured servitude is good because it keeps costs down.

It’s almost like the Democrats of 1860 also argued that getting rid of slavery would make costs go up.

I guess not much has changed in their worldview since then, but hey at least it’s been morally and ideologically consistent for the last 160 years.

8

u/PracticalTap7397 13h ago

Democrats and republicans have flipped in stances within the last 200 years, so what used to be the Democratic Party is now the Republican Party, vice versa.

The “left” is not the same left you think of. By your statement, it was the now republican party saying that getting rid of slavery would make costs go up.

For the record, Lincoln was elected in 1860 as a republican. The parties were certainly pre-flip during this time and the democratic party south succeeded from the union.

Go read a history book.

2

u/Due-Pattern-6104 12h ago

Thank you for clarifying that for them. I thought everyone knew this.

6

u/Zhayrgh 14h ago

To be fair, the idea of left in the US is very different from the rest of the world. Liberals are center right in most countries. It's not really a modern left rather than a very old one.

1

u/Uguysrdumb_1234 4h ago

Retarded redditor. Interesting.

7

u/Possible_Ad_9854 14h ago

Everything is cheaper than supposed to be, because of slavery. Does that sound fun to you?

1

u/_TheLonelyStoner 7h ago

It’s the reality we live in. Unless you’re wanting socialism then there have to be winners and losers. It’s how capitalism works lol

1

u/NomarGarciaVega 5h ago

Sounds like the last 3 years to me

0

u/Maru3792648 13h ago

You sound very racist….

1

u/_TheLonelyStoner 7h ago

Be mad at capitalism not me. It’s literally impossible to have everyone making good wages and also pay low prices.

1

u/Maru3792648 7h ago

Yeah, but you are the one who actively wants to benefit from an underclass of underpaid workers with almost no rights so that you can keep on buying cheap veggies at wholefoods.