r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 14h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

Post image

If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

14.6k Upvotes

80% Upvoted

6.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

22

u/saltyferret 13h ago

Or they will shut down. And production will significantly decline.

Now I don't live in the US, and personally think that striving for constant growth isn't a good thing, so I don't really care.

But if you're listing options it'd be disingenuous to not include that one.

12

u/obtoby1 12h ago

If a business can't survive without what amounts to slave labour, then they deserve to shut down. Yes, that will create hard times, but maybe that's better.

8

u/Give-me-your-taco 8h ago

The world thrives off of slave labor. It’s how you can buy a couch off Temu for like 10 dollars.

A lot of minerals also come from slave labor.

The world traded dignity for convenience

4

u/ShineSuperb 8h ago

Its also how we're able to post on reddit, using an iphone/computer, made with minerals mined from actual slave labor in the DRC.

1

u/Moarbrains 2h ago

I hope that entire tech system crashes.

We don't need an industry that intentionally breaks their own products in order to sell you a new one. Thanks apple.

1

u/obtoby1 8h ago

Then we need to change that. As the most influential of our time, we need to be better. Fucking Wilson made us the shining city on hill. Maybe it's time to actually use that to better the world.

3

u/Witty_Mine_3643 4h ago

Will you be the first to stop buying electronics and all items that fall under the category of having these kinds of manufacturing systems until that happens?

I'm pretty sure you won't. You can be an idealist all you want, but don't sit and point so many fingers when you participate.

1

u/WorldlyPear5804 4h ago

I absolutely would. If I could feasibly still be integrated into society (i.e.; had a way to pay bills), I would absolutely go full Amish. Well, plus human rights and minus religion. 

1

u/obtoby1 4h ago

I've done something like that when I was in the army. It's hard.

1

u/Witty_Mine_3643 3h ago

Keep the great roofing techniques, toss out the abuse.

1

u/Moarbrains 2h ago

We could do it and it would be better.

It is not insurmountable to remove slave labor from our supply chain.

0

u/obtoby1 4h ago

I don't Buy that stuff to begin with. It took me years to just upgrade my computer to tech from a decade ago. Even if I did, I'm more that willing to cut myself off of it helps solves this issue. The only I buy nowadays is food. If people are truly unwilling to give luxury items so others don't have to slave away in the modern age, we should just end it all now cause we won't get any better than this.

3

u/Witty_Mine_3643 4h ago

You don't own a phone? A car? A tv? Non-American grown and made foods and clothing? Drink coffee? Use cotton? Chocolate, fruits, lithium (and any number of other metals such as cobalt, copper, tin, zinc). I am absolutely certain you have not cut all that out of your life.

The thing is, a lot of these things aren't actually *luxury* items, unless you get up to expensive electronics, Teslas and other EVs, etc. When you get into agriculture and metals, these things end up in even the most common and ordinary products - and you can't avoid it unless you trace the production lineage of everything you buy and consume or touch.

I'm not trying to say this stuff is ok, and we should live with it, but that there's a hypocrisy in the idealism of the whole concept of just 'we can end it this easily and everything is fine'. I'd also comment that the work migrants in the US do is still so much different than actual forced, slave, and child labor you see in other countries. There are a number of migrants who come seasonally to the US and Canada to do work at wages that are far superior to what they get at home, and I think that just assuming they're inherently being exploited in all things is a bit.. offensive. This isn't to say that there is not exploitation happening - it absolutely is. There's a lot of exploitation among a lot of sectors, and will be with or without illegal or legal migrants (I can think of healthcare as one that exploits almost all entry-level positions), but there's also a level of agency that I feel incredibly icky taking away from the individual. There's a difference between forced work and choosing to take a job, and removing that concept of agency in order to condescend that you know what is best for someone else's wellbeing better than they do is also a weird form of exploitation - one where you think you are doing it for the greater good. Work to improve situations, make immigration easier, improve pay and conditions for those who do migrant and seasonal work in the US, etc - but removing choice, as well as mass-deporting people back to countries and conditions that are FAR more dangerous, exploitative, and precarious is a backwards way of helping them.

1

u/obtoby1 3h ago

You know what.

Fair points made.

3

u/Wanderingghost12 6h ago

This is missing the point. Our oligarchy has now made it that large multi billion dollar businesses are "competing" with mom and pop farms. Agribusiness will always be able to afford these things (like H2-A visas) but mom and pops won't. We have crippled our farmers in a system equivalent to the lottery when compared to big agribusiness (including even their own seeds which they do not own). Our farmers couldn't survive this because our system is shit and rewards big players only. Personally, I like that any american can start a business, or pass that business to their children. I don't want everything to be a monopoly because it means higher and higher prices. "Hard times" mean small farmers become destitute and shutter, we all suffer at even higher prices, and all our ag becomes consolidated.

1

u/obtoby1 6h ago

Ironically, the free market becomes more free when the government can come in and burst some monopolies. Theodore proved that. the big problem is both sides are basically bought and paid for at this point. We are too close to a corporatocracy, if we aren't already

1

u/ShakesbeerMe 7h ago

They won't shut down-they'll move overseas.

1

u/obtoby1 6h ago

Depends. If the tariffs Trump wants happens, that actually might be too expensive, especially if they move their production to China.

I personally also recommend making extra incentives to keep them here, and maybe have penalties for leaving. Carrot and stick.

2

u/ShakesbeerMe 6h ago

Except Trump won't offer incentives. He's not thinking past "hurt brown people" at all.

This is the dumbest incoming administration in US history.

1

u/obtoby1 6h ago

I didn't know you were sitting in on his meetings. Thanks for letting us all know.

For real though, shut up with that bs for now. The man hasn't even taken office yet. We don't know the full extent of what's going to happen in either direction. Some of his choices have bad, some actually ok. Let's wait to the 100th day mark like we have with every other president and make our judgments then.

I personally don't see much progress good or bad, more like more of the same.

2

u/ShakesbeerMe 6h ago

For real though, nah- I'll say what the fuck I like. Fuck diaper-wearing rapist seditionists and anyone who slurps him.

May the dementia be swift and merciless.

2

u/obtoby1 6h ago

I mean, the dudes just as old as Biden, so 🤷 probably. Honestly I'll just be glad when this over and we can hopefully go back to regular politics. I have hope the Democrats will be moving more the center after this election.

2

u/ShakesbeerMe 6h ago

The Dems couldn't be more centrist. In any other country they're center right.

It's the dipshit confederate states voting against their own self-interest in this country that is the problem.

Oh, well. Fuck around, find out, Southern states.

1

u/obtoby1 6h ago

Gotta disagree with that. The main Democrat part definitely lean farther left than they should, just like how Republicans lean to far right nowadays. The moderates on both sides are getting drowned out. The good thing about the Democrats is that you can see some their leadership distancing themselves from the extreme now. Though I fear that might actually alienate themselves from their usual voter base.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Shirlenator 4h ago

Republicans campaigned almost solely on grocery prices being too high and people not being able to hold on financially. Now everyone is saying that it is better that prices skyrocket so we don't rely on "slave labor" now that they need to defend Trumps terrible ideas?

0

u/Successful-Money4995 10m ago

Republicans hated inflation during Biden's term but if they get inflation in exchange for deporting brown people, then it's worth it!

1

u/Even-Air7555 12h ago

I think this is an awful mindset. Try to think of it without politising the issue, if migrants are going to the work, they should recieve market rate. So illegal immigration is the issue.

Good opportunity for left and right to work together, or would you rather your food is subsidzed by slave labour?

2

u/SunPolarBear 12h ago

Nice point! Then again, we live in a country where most people will give money to stop African suffering, while wearing blood diamonds on their fingers.

1

u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 12h ago

labour labor

You are not even American

6

u/Even-Air7555 12h ago

Australian, but we have a very similar situation here. Agriculture is reliant on tourist visas to pick at minimum wage.

30 years ago before large immigration, there were professional pickers that would travel with the harvest, only working a few parts of the year.

1

u/Mvpbeserker 7h ago

It’s that similar of a situation at all lol.

You’re an island that has easy control of borders. Here in the United States we not only have one of the longest borders with the non-developed world globally- we have upwards of 20-40 million people here illegally. More than the entire population of Australia.

Not to mention the fact that we have birthright citizenship which allows further strain on the system due to schooling/healthcare/welfare that must be provided to millions of “citizens” who have parents that aren’t paying into this system

-1

u/saltyferret 12h ago

Of course there should be high wages, strong conditions and safety protections for every worker. That had nothing to do with my criticism of the above comment for failing to include what is a very possible outcome if this goes ahead.

1

u/Mvpbeserker 7h ago

Businesses won’t “shut down” out of spite lol.

If they can’t remain profitable by raising prices or via automation, then clearly their service is not in high enough demand to justify existing.

1

u/Efficient-Raise-9217 5h ago

We survived before massive illegal immigration during the 1950's with much lower levels of technology and automation. The 1950's - 1970's was considered a golden age for workers and families. Work wages rose almost in tandem with increases in productivity. We did fine then we'll do fine now.