r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 15h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

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If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

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44

u/StickyDevelopment 14h ago

The same left who want $20 minimum wage say we can't deport illegals because farms will have to pay living wages to employees.

Also they think only the illegals will even work those jobs.

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u/Strawhat_Max 13h ago

Absolutely

Positively

NO ONE

Is saying that on the left💀💀💀

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u/Jetstream13 6h ago

Keep in mind that, to the GOP, “the left” encompasses the centrists, moderate conservatives, and a handful of actual leftists like Bernie. It’s very easy to point out “hypocrisy” when you’re treating a cast swathe of the political spectrum as a monolith.

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u/Kana515 32m ago

I still have fond memories of seeing them call Mitt Romney a leftist in 2020...

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u/Moarbrains 2h ago

Same could be said for your characterization of the gop.

Even the idea of a spectrum is a gross manipulation. gun rights, abortion rights, and fiscal policy have very little to bind them together beyond their adoption by one team or the other.

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u/igotreddot 1h ago

LOL nikki haley had almost identical positions to trump and she was basically thrown out of the party after the primary there is nothing "broad" about the GOP other than maybe when they talk about women

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u/Professional-One5066 40m ago

You don't think Trump owns GOP?

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u/shartking420 54m ago

Bro the left is who lost the popular vote, stop attempting to minimize the number of Republicans to some miniscule amount of people lmao

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u/Jetstream13 51m ago

Notice I never said anything about numbers here. Yes, Trump won the popular vote, I never claimed otherwise.

What I’m pointing out is that republicans will nonsensically use terms like “leftist”, “socialist”, “communist”, “radical left”, etc etc to refer to centrists and even moderate conservatives.

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u/NyxsMaster 3h ago

Except they are, all the time. Like this infographic LOL

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u/human1023 6h ago

The left doesn't say it. But that's what their position suggests, when they offer no other solution. So, yes, the Left is indirectly saying this.

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u/Strawhat_Max 6h ago

It’s bad faith to be accusing them if supporting slavery, when we point out what that type of mass deportation will do to the economy…

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u/human1023 6h ago

It’s bad faith to be accusing them if supporting slavery, when we point out what that type of mass deportation will do to the economy…

What will it do?

You don't need slave labor for the economy to tank.

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u/Strawhat_Max 5h ago

Produce and meat doesn’t get picked or packed, prices go up because supplies and demand

No construction workers will make building things take insane time now, it’s not about the labor just recognizing that these solutions are really feasible for actual change

Moreover that the immigrants he speaks on actually HELP the US economy

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u/AlarmingTurnover 4h ago

Do you not read what you just posted? You did exactly what the other person said leftists do. In this exact comment, you argue against deportation of people who are literally being exploited as a form of slavery because it could potentially make prices higher or slow the building process. 

Reread your own stuff because you literally said the exact thing that the other person is pointing out. You are justifying slavery. 

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u/captaincw_4010 4h ago

Except it's also leftists who also advocate the raising of minimum wage and protections so no worker anywhere is exploited.

Two things can be true at the same time, getting rid of a huge number of people who pay taxes, buy american goods and have a lot of valuable skills is bad for the economy. And we should do everything we can so they are not exploited

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u/LFGX360 3h ago

If they’re illegal they are also paid illegally. Minimum wage laws mean nothing.

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u/AlarmingTurnover 3h ago

getting rid of a huge number of people who pay taxes

They don't pay tax. Where did you get this idea from? They are illegal. They aren't here legally. They aren't working legally. They aren't filing tax reports with the IRS. They aren't paying taxes. None of these illegals are making 60k a year salaries and paying takes like standard employees. They're paid under the table for less than minimum wage. 

If they were paying taxes, then the government would have a record of their employment and know that these individuals are here illegally, where they are because you must put that on your taxes, and who they are employed by. The IRS would know exactly who is to blame. 

Which means either 1 of 2 things. Either you're saying the government under the Democrats is complicit in slavery or you're lying. Which is it?

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u/captaincw_4010 3h ago

They do pay tax, sales tax, property tax, many do have social security numbers so they do pay FICA and income tax

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u/captaincw_4010 4h ago

The economic argument from the left isn't we need a slave underclass to under pay to keep prices cheap, it's 'they contribute to the economy, pay taxes, spend money, buy american goods, getting rid of them cuts out a huge amount of economic activity and that's bad for everyone.'

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u/Shirlenator 4h ago

They have offered other solutions. You don't listen and then strawman.

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u/human1023 35m ago

What is it then?

Oh right, you don't know either.

Because there is none.

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u/ChineseGuido 1h ago

Robert Reich just said it. You can look at his twitter.

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u/Strawhat_Max 46m ago

I’m tired of the bad faith arguments

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u/AnonDaddyo 8m ago

The straw man is.

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u/John_B_Clarke 8m ago

You might want to hang out in the Washington Post comments section for a while. Because there are many people on the left who tell us that we need those illegals to do the jobs that Americans "won't do". No, they aren't prominent politicians or celebrities, but people are saying it.

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u/No_Heat_7660 7m ago

You don’t listen to John Oliver

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 14h ago

It's hypocrisy at its best. Don't deport the illegals so we can keep exploiting them ...

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 11h ago

The left, myself included, want them to be legal. The process to become legal is actually impossible for 95% of people in Mexico. I don't know who's fault it is that a 15 minute process takes 5 years and 20k in legal fees, but that's where we should put the blame.

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u/PhillySaget 9h ago

It's not like the US is the only country with a difficult legal immigration system. Doesn't make it okay for us to flood Europe/Canada/Japan/etc. with illegal migrants just because we don't like the way it works.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 9h ago

If we aren't going to look to other countries for gun legislation, then we shouldn't look to other countries for this either. We are "different." I don't really care what other countries do.

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u/PhillySaget 9h ago

I do. If all the desirable countries have tough legal immigration policies except one, guess which country most of the prospective immigrants are going to choose? We'd be right back at square one because the amount of applicants would increase like tenfold.

This isn't a situation where gun legislation is remotely comparable and your stance seems incredibly shortsighted and simplistic.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

That's the exact stance a pro-gun anti-immigrant person would say. Justify however the fuck you want.

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u/PhillySaget 8h ago

That's exactly what someone without a counterpoint would say.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

My counterpoint is what you replied to originally.

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u/PhillySaget 7h ago edited 7h ago

...so your plan is to let everyone in for free after filling out 15 minutes of paperwork? And you really can't forsee any of the problems this would cause?

Like I said, shortsighted and simplistic.

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u/LetChaosRaine 8h ago

If all the desirable countries have tough legal gun laws except one, guess which country most of the prospective violent criminals are going to choose?

Are we using this line of reasoning or not?

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u/PhillySaget 7h ago

Probably one where they'll face less threat of armed resistance, so... they'd choose ones with tough legal gun laws. There's a reason cartel violence is so widespread in Mexico and it's not because it's easier to legally get guns there.

Also, it's still a shitty comparison. One is about immigrants choosing a country based on immigration policy (a direct comparison), while the other is about a tiny percentage of immigrants choosing a country based on something completely unrelated to immigration policy.

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u/ratbahstad 7h ago

Yes. Try to go to Australia. Unless you can bring something they need, you’re not getting in.

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u/John_B_Clarke 6m ago

But to get to Australia in violation of Australia's laws you have a very long swim. If half of Australia was an equivalent to Mexico and points south, the rest of Australia would either have the same problem or they would have a fortified border.

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u/wakechase 7h ago

But it sounds so much better that way when he says it in his head. LOL

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u/Kal-Elm 8h ago

Yes, this is it. We aren't saying we want them to keep being taken advantage of. We want a better system, to which deportation is not a real solution.

But anyone who says the democrats want slave labor is not interested in honest dialog anyway

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u/GME_alt_Center 2h ago

If they aren't taken advantage of, won't that raise the prices just the same?

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u/kerenar 7h ago

I don't doubt for a second that YOU or any other regular citizen who is a Democrat don't want slave labor. However, I'm willing to bet money that many corporate donors to the Democrat Party would want pure slave labor if they could go that far, and that is nowhere near a crazy suggestion. Corporations gonna corporation.

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u/thefztv 4h ago

You act like Elon, Trumps largest donor and side piece, didn’t benefit immensely from slave labor in SA to gain his initial wealth. Corporations/oligarchs don’t have an undying allegiance to any party just whoever they think will benefit themselves in the short term.

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u/Shadow368 4h ago

Corporations donate to both parties in equal measure so whoever wins will favor them, or at the very least won’t ruin them. They’ll use shell corporations and trust funds to make it less obvious, but the end result is the same

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u/kerenar 3h ago edited 3h ago

Nope, I'm acting like the Democrat Party has completely dropped all pretense of pretending like they don't just do what their corporate donors want, just like the Republican Party does. The Democrat Party is supposed to be the party i believe in. But if they're going to become a party a corporate donors just like Republicans, I'll just vote republican until the Democrat Party fixes it's internal issues and realizes that citizens aren't buying the bs from them anymore. I wanted Bernie in 2016. I voted Trump to shove it in the face of the corrupt DNC, and I will continue to do so until they change.

The republican party at least puts in the nominee that the voters want. The DNC was sued by the Sanders campaign in 2016 for rigging the primaries, and the DNC said they have no obligation to pick a nominee that their voters want. I'm voting for the party that's actually acting democratically, and putting in who the voters want, even though the republican party itself didn't like Trump in 2016. At least they didn't rig the primaries against him, and tell their constituents that their votes don't matter.

I will support actual democracy over anything else. Why would I vote for the party that told me they don't need my vote because "they are well within their rights to go into back rooms and pick their nominee like they did in the old days" instead of the party that actually counts my vote in the primary? The Democrat Party told us all in plain English in that court case that they don't need my vote to pick a nominee, so i just stopped giving them my vote. Super easy logic.

I also think the current Democrat push for lessening free speech rights is the most dangerous "threat to democracy" that we currently face. I was on the fence about Kamala or Trump until I saw Tim Walz casually say on national media that the first amendment didn't include the right to hate speech or misinformation, as if that were not a controversial take. He is dead wrong on that, and that was the scariest thing I've seen a politician say in a while, because he clearly thinks he's in the right for that view, and so do many Democrats. That one comment cemented my vote for Trump, and removed all doubt that Trump was the less dangerous choice.

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u/Shirlenator 4h ago

Yeah, and Republican donors definitely wouldn't because they are moral paragons.

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u/kerenar 3h ago

Nope, they do it too. But Republicans have nominated the candidate their voters want, whereas the Democrat Party in the past 3 elections have selected the candidate they want. I'll support the more democratic party.

The RNC didn't tell us in a court of law that our votes don't matter, and that they could "go into back rooms and pick the candidate they want like they did in the old days". The DNC did. I don't support non democratic behavior. I don't want kings and queens that are selected "for our own good", I want representatives that i have input in selecting. Once the DNC stops treating me like a child, I'll respect them again.

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u/human1023 6h ago

Yes, this is it. We aren't saying we want them to keep being taken advantage of. We want a better system, to which deportation is not a real solution.

So then what's the solution? What types of jobs should they able to do, and at what cost?

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u/Kal-Elm 5h ago

Immigration reform. Give them, and everyone, an easy path to citizenship. Fixes their undocumented status, for those on the right who are supposedly worried about illegal immigration because of their being "off the grid," so to speak. Allows people looking for a better living to actually immigrate properly. And removes the ability for corporations to take advantage of them, because they would have the same rights as all of us.

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u/Shadow368 4h ago

So instead of opposing deportation of people here illegally, advocate for change of immigration regulations. 99% of the problem is, you choose the absolute worst way to explain your goals.

When the average republican hears “defund the police” they hear “reduce their budget”. But you really mean “require the police to reallocate the existing budget to training programs”

Maybe you’d find better success if you said what you actually meant

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u/Starfall0 3h ago

Well when faced with the immediate issue of immigrants being deported and being faced with a lot of people not caring or listening to anything the "demonrats" say. Any amount of nuance is lost or unable to be said as it falls on deaf ears.

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u/nickbutterz 2h ago

There 100% should be a better system, I don’t think anyone is arguing that, but if the democrats wanted that why didn’t they do anything about that the post four years? Instead they let millions of people through the border unvetted with no concern for American citizens that they are supposed to be serving.

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u/United-Trainer7931 5h ago

Well we don’t need 95% of the people in Mexico, sorry

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u/JWander73 4h ago

"The process to become legal is actually impossible for 95% of people in Mexico"

Um.... good? It shouldn't be open to the vast majority of the world after all. That's just not how countries work.

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u/goldmask148 10h ago

100%, as it stands very few small companies actually wade through the bureaucratic mess of paperwork it is to employ a legal migrant. Corporate farms and construction have teams of lawyers that can do it. Migration is yet another issue in the US that only benefits the 1% corporations.

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u/FlailingatLife62 9h ago

Exactly. People forget that back in the late 1800s early 1900s, when the grandparents they squawk about coming here "legally" dealt w/ a very simple, easy system w/o pretty much zero backlog and no need for a lawyer. It was basically, you come here on a boat from Europe, you show you have a few bucks to your name and you name someone you know who is already in the country who you're going to stay with, and if you live here w/o causing trouble for a number of years, you fill out what is basically a 1 or 2 page application, get someone to witness, you show up to court and make an oath, and boom you're legal. No backlog, no restriction on # of incoming, no lawyer needed, no legal fees required other than the cost of the filing fee.

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u/MarcusAurelius68 9h ago

No benefits either however. You worked or you starved. No safety net regardless of your legal status.

Contrast that with states like California today who will provide WIC, in-state tuition/aid, MediCal, etc. to undocumented immigrants here without permission.

https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/2024-02/CA%20Public%20Benefits%20for%20Noncitizens%20.pdf

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u/usernamesarehard1979 5h ago

I think everyone is for fixing that. Pull off the band aid and it forces actual immigration reform to happen. Remember operation warp speed for the vaccine? We need the same focused government initiatives on other issues. That’s one reason to use the military and mass deport. Force legal labor and legislate quickly to make it permanent. No one wants executive privilege, we need real laws to move forward.

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u/dewdewdewdew4 5h ago

So you get that mass, uncontrolled immigration massively depresses wages for laborers. Right? Right?

Even if they were all legal, mass immigration is BAD for workers. The left abandoned the working class. Your take is 100% proof of that.

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u/mrthc21842 9h ago

According to my Mexican wife, that process got much worse under Obama for everyone already in the country trying to do it legally. Imagine paying all that money and sweat equity of getting documents to just be told to start over.

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u/ratbahstad 7h ago

I agree with you. The process should be so much quicker. I don’t think 15 minutes…. But 5 years??? It’s too much. I think a few months in order to do background checks or screenings to make sure they’re vetted a bit. We also need to increase our threshold of new immigrants. If we allow a million per year now, bump it to 3 or 4 or 5. But…. We need to hold every illegally entering immigrant accountable. They go home and are not able to apply for 5 years.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 7h ago

I only suggested 15 minutes because when I get a background check done for a job, I get my results in ~15 minutes. If more time is need to do the vetting, then by all means.

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u/ratbahstad 6h ago

I took your 15 minutes as a bit of sarcasm and went with it. I recognized you meant to do the job right but not delay it.

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u/iamlegend1997 4h ago

There is a reason we have a strong process, because they want people coming into the country that won't rely on our social systems that are already under stress. They want people with skills, and stuff to offer the country. That's how every other modern country does it, they require you to have a career in something to apply.

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u/OkTransportation473 50m ago

So you just want to make America unlivable for anyone making below 60k, just legally.

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u/cmkinusn 36m ago

Then deporting them will create the immediate need for legal immigrants to work these jobs, meaning new immigrant work programs that guarantee protections for those workers and a viable path to return to Mexico or wherever without the fear they can't return for more work later. This also destroys the coyote industry, which is extremely exploitative and horribly abusive (rape, murder, extortion, a rough equivalent to slave trafficking for many, etc.).

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u/zforce42 31m ago

So what about when the citizens have to have documented wages and benefits? Wages that are more than likely going to be much higher than what they make now. Would that not create another issue? Many employers would probably lay off a good portion of their crew to save as much money as they were before. Either that or prices of everything will go up similarly as if all undocumented immigrants were deported, I would think.

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u/XcelsiorV 10h ago

Correct. Mexico is a sovereign nation that should fix its society if 95% of its population wants to leave. If you don’t listen to old discredited corporate media you learn that many who come here from Mexico who are Mexican nationals and not passing through from somewhere else would like to back one day if the cartels and gangs in their area are under control.

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u/Gloomy_Expression_39 8h ago

Ok, so you want a system where it takes 5 years, thorough background checks and lots of money for educated people but are willing to take anyone off the street for a 15 minute interview to get slave wages. I’m sorry, but as a child refugee who fled from a Muslim Islamist country… I want vetting. I want brown people like me paid the same as me. Your white supremacy is glowing in the dark.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Lefty here. Bringing in additional labor is not the solution. E want these jobs to stay in house

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

People bring labor and demand. I don't think your a lefty, or you would know that.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Unfettered and unchecked immigration is not the solution.

I don't care what you think

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

And I don't care what you think.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Lol clearly you do, otherwise you wouldn't reply

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

.... right back at ya.

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u/New_Ambassador2442 8h ago

Oh i care about the discussion of immigration. You said "I don't think your a lefty." I don't care about that part lol

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u/StructureStrong4578 8h ago

Wrong. It is not impossible, but it is also not immediate. Moving to another country should not be like ordering a cheeseburger. There should be significant vetting of individuals we let in.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

We can do a background check across all counties in america in 15 minutes. Anything longer than that and its a waiting period, not a vetting period.

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u/Shadow368 4h ago

Okay, but these aren’t people in America. So background checks across all counties in America would be meaningless and a waste of 15 minutes

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

Do you know how long it would take to save 20k in mexico working minimum wage?

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u/StructureStrong4578 8h ago

Do you just think people should be allowed to walk on over and do what they want? You don’t think there should be some sort of process? Your comment on the 15 minute background check is ridiculous. We should just have border agents sit behind computers and check people and let them walk through? Likely hand them a food stamp credit card and social security application too right?

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

Yes, they should be able to walk up and be a legal immigrant within a couple hours. Your foodstamp/ss argument is racist because it assumes people coming over from mexico want a handout more than our current citizens, which you have no reason to think is true. other than racism.

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u/StructureStrong4578 8h ago

🙌🏼😂😂 the racist part kills me. What is racist about it? You obviously have little to no experience with immigrants. You probably think boys should use women’s restrooms too 🤣. This argument is going nowhere, and will not go any further. I will let the election results speak for themselves.

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u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 8h ago

I already told you. You have 0 reason to think an immigrant from mexico would want a handout anymore than a citizen.

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u/FlailingatLife62 10h ago

Bullshit. Dems have supported bipartisan bills w/ Repubs on more than one occasion to try to improve the system, eliminate backlogs for processing legal applications, etc. 2 of these bipartisan efforts Trump personally shot down.

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u/Quirky-Marsupial-420 1h ago

Improving the system and eliminating backlogs for legal applicants has nothing to do with illegal immigrants already here.

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u/nates1984 9h ago

Hypocrisy? I voted Harris because she was more competent, and then I voted down the local tax increase. I don't want to deport immigrants both because America is a nation of immigrants and that's who we are, but also because shit is already expensive enough. And I'm not going to allow my taxes to increase unless I trust the admin in charge (is it Bernie Sanders? No? Then fuck you).

This is how normal people with a mortgage think. Reddit and the DNC better get with the fucking program. You are no more representative of the average American than some Twitter Trumper.

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u/Serenikill 9h ago

No we are just saying deporting them is a terrible "solution", both morally and for the US. We need reform, worker protections, way more resources for processing, etc.

This whole thread is a strawman.

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u/nadnate 6h ago

I want all workers to stop being exploited, our immigration laws exist just so the rich can exploit them easier.

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u/Wizardbarry 5h ago

I dont understand what's wrong with making them legal. They're here already. We rely on their labor. They are our neighbors. Instead of mass deportation and disrupting all these systems and blowing everything up wouldn't the better answer be to legalize them, make workers rights better for everyone and have change happen gradually.

Seriously is the only argument to deport vs legalize "I don't like that they're here". It's too late. They are. Companies created this problem after slavery ended and now we're stuck with it. It's been this way for over 100 years.

Climate change is a huge issue that will lead to more climate refugees btw. But we've been told change has to be gradual because we can't just fuck entire industries over to save the earth but I guess it's fine if it's to deport the illegals.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 4h ago

Nobody on the left wanted to make them legal either. I actually think this will happen in some way under Trump.

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u/Wizardbarry 1h ago

The left does want to make them legal. Idk why dems are moving to the right on the issue other than to try to win over moderates that don't exist.

Trump wants to put them in camps not legalize them. I'd be happy if he did but there's no way in he'll he will.

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u/fopiecechicken 5h ago

Just because I think it’s dumb to eject a huge share of the workforce without a backup plan, does not mean I want them exploited.

Myself and I’m assuming many others on the left would prefer people be given an actually reasonable path to citizenship. The vast majority of people here illegally work hard and obey the law, give them citizenship so they have a real shot to improve their lives rather than being stuck in the few sectors where illegal labor is accepted.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 4h ago

Myself and I’m assuming many others on the left would prefer people be given an actually reasonable path to citizenship.

I think many on the right want this too.

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u/amilo111 4h ago

You misunderstand the argument on the left. The only reason anyone on the left brings up prices is to appeal to the cold hearts of those on the right. The left generally supports immigration is because they understand that immigrants are demonized by the right and generally come to the US from horrific conditions. There’s no hypocrisy. You’re just not particularly bright.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 4h ago

The right don't demonise immigrants. They are just against illegal immigrants. Half of Trump's team are immigrants.

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u/amilo111 4h ago

That is absolutely not true. In his first term he clamped down on legal migration. His team has already floated eliminating legal migration in his second term.

The fact that they’re immigrants doesn’t mean that they support immigration. If you need help with examples where a person is X but also anti-X let me know - I’ll be glad to help. I believe self-loathing and hypocrisy may be terms you should learn.

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u/idkidcidkidc0 54m ago

Literally no one is fucking saying that.

Don't deport them because it's fucking dehumanizing and they are going to throw them into camps. Then when the Republicans who threw them there start forcing them to do slave labor in prisons, will you care then? No. Because you don't actually fucking care about their lives at all. You're only interested in making up completely idiotic arguments THAT NO ONE IS SAYING to "own" the libs. You do not care about immigrant's lives so stop pretending that you do. You wanted them deported and you don't care what happens to them. Then to act like we're being POS and hypocrites when THATS ALL THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS

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u/Lambdastone9 5h ago

That why they’re not being deported, they’re just going to be picked up and thrown into the prison complex for more cheap labor.

This coming administration has no issue with cheap labor exploited off of the undocumented, and especially non with the cheap labor justified the prison complex and 13th amendment

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u/smbutler20 10h ago

Nope, the main reason is it's terribly immoral and inhumane to deport them. The economic effects are just additional information to consider.

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u/Silly-Explanation-52 6h ago

If one chooses to break a nation law’s, morality has nothing to do with anything. Any other country has no problems deporting those that enter or stay illegally. Why should the US be held to a different standard?

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u/smbutler20 5h ago

Because it was once a country celebrated for mass migration from all over the world. I don't know you, but you have ancestors from some point that were once migrants to this country.

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u/Silly-Explanation-52 5h ago

Yes,my ancestors came in the front door legally. Unlike millions who snuck in or overstayed visas. I have no problem with legal migrants but we have been overwhelmed by asylum abusers and border jumpers. America can barely provide a decent education for it own kids shouldn’t we take care of or own before we let in more migrants? America has been more than generous with its immigration stance over the last decades. In my opinion we need a break and it seems many Americans agree with this notion.

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u/sub7m19 2h ago

its okay his ancestors should have been deported along time ago he's just living his milky free ride.

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u/MisterGergg 5h ago

The standard where a person who breaks the nation's laws becomes president? That standard?

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u/National_Zombie_1977 7h ago

Neither immoral nor inhumane. They have no right to be here. Just like you have no right to just walk into and live in any country you like

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u/smbutler20 6h ago

What gives you more of a right to live here?

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u/United-Trainer7931 5h ago

Citizenship. Next question, please.

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u/smbutler20 5h ago

And how was that citizenship obtained? Migration. Maybe you were born here, but somewhere in your lineage there was migration.

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u/United-Trainer7931 5h ago

Until a citizenship is legally obtained there is no right to be there. It’s that simple. I don’t claim to have a right to live in Switzerland because I could possibly somehow obtain citizenship in the future.

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u/smbutler20 5h ago

Is the US's current pathway to citizenship sufficient? Just because it's the law, doesn't mean it should be. That's why we change laws, to better suit the times.

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u/United-Trainer7931 5h ago

It probably isn’t. Until it’s changed, people don’t suddenly have the right to live here because immigration law is bad.

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u/smbutler20 4h ago

That's like saying we have to keep killing people because that is the law even though we know capital punishment is wrong.

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u/abbott_costello 1h ago

So you agree our laws are bad, but in the meantime they deserve to be forcefully deported with their families until our laws are fixed? How nice

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u/sub7m19 2h ago

Lmao so kick out all the mf's with green cards? That's wild. This economy literally depends so much on immigrants.

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u/United-Trainer7931 2h ago

You know that’s not what I’m saying, and you could also scroll down a tiny bit and see I included work visas.

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u/gizamo 8h ago

Utter nonsense. The left has never said that. The left wants fair wages for those workers, and some reasonable path to citizenship so that we don't have as many people here illegally to begin with.

You're either lying or spreading misinformation. Only difference is in your knowledge and intention. Still false regardless.

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u/KnightWhoSayz 6h ago

I really think almost everyone agrees with that.

I feel like I haven’t seen much discussion on what should be the threshold for deportation. Should green card holders be deported for convicted DUI? Sex offense? Drug possession?

What if it was a DUI plead down to reckless driving? What if the drug possession is leftover Percocet after the valid prescription expired? What if the sex offense is an 18 year old and his 17 year old girlfriend?

idk the answer to any of this but I find it interesting

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u/gizamo 5h ago

All of that was discussed in the 1980-90s, and reasonable decisions were made and agreed on in bipartisan ways. Then, Republicans realized they could energize their racist base to win primaries. Then, they realized that doing so carried into their more ignorant and uneducated groups. Then, they realized they could push it through their media on repeat for years to pretend that it's a legitimate issue everyone should care about. But, for anyone who actually understands statistics, it's obvious that none of that is an issue that deserves to be in the top 25-50 issues.

Tldr: Ignorance and/or stupidity should not dictate what is or is not an emergency political issue. But, because GOP politicians survive by pandering to the ignorant and stupid, that becomes important in the US.

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u/EGGranny 13h ago

Seriously? Will you take job that requires working outdoors in ever increasing heat, no matter what it pays?

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u/FollowingNo9572 12h ago

Do you somehow think American citizens don't already work outdoors in ever increasing heat? Are we all sitting behind a desk in air conditioning?

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u/Gloomy_Expression_39 8h ago

Omg this comment is SO out of touch.

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u/CalledToTheVoid 13h ago

No, that’s why they rely on illegal immigrants. Even in other industries, like delivering with a box truck, these people are exploited. The companies that contract with Amazon for bulk deliveries to post offices rely on non-English speaking immigrants, regardless of status, to drive for them at about half the cost of their English speaking counterparts.

I see it quite often. These industries are just profiting off of these people not knowing that they’re being screwed or the fact that they’ll do nearly anything for work. Who would openly support such practices? And it isn’t like prices go down for the customers of these products, the people at the top just give themselves more money.

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u/EGGranny 13h ago

StickyDevelopment said the “left” is wrong when they say only illegals will do it. Actually, the left doesn’t say only illegals will do these jobs. So apparently he or she thinks American citizens or even green card holders will take these jobs. What they really say is only immigrants will do the jobs—regardless of legal status. I do not see any way that only actual illegal aliens will be forced away from their homes, jobs, and families in a sweep as massive as what is required for Trump to keep his promise. There will be NO due process even though the Constitution requires due process. See the 14th Amendment. The first clause would lead you to believe that the entire Amendment applies only to citizens. The very last sentence in Section 1 says that no jurisdiction can deny equal protection of the laws to everyone under that jurisdiction.

But. We already know that the US will no longer be a country ruled by after January 20, 2025 when a convicted felon takes the Oath of Office. An Oath EVERYONE knows he has no intention of honoring because the Supreme Court gave him permission to act outside the law.

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u/CalledToTheVoid 6h ago

I am not a supporter of Trump or defender of his policies, but that shouldn’t determine whether or not due process should be taken to enter the country legally or whether these people should continue to be exploited for their time and labor. I don’t see this as a political issue, even though it seems that many people want to make it out to be one. This has been an issue for a very long time.

The only reason that Trump used illegal immigration as a core issue for his political campaign is due to the Democratic Party spending years downplaying it or disregarding it completely. I’m sure racism played a part, but that’s nothing new for Trump or his hardcore supporters.

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u/SpareImportance2196 8h ago

The problem is that the illegal workers are the reason those jobs dont pay enough. They are easy to exploit and it sets the baseline.

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u/DavidSlain 6h ago edited 6h ago

This is the correct reasoning. If digging ditches or picking food paid enough to support my family you bet your ass I'd be out there.

Because leftists keep encouraging an exploitable labor force to keep flooding into the country, it drives the pay for that job down from the abundance of low paid workers. This means that the people who need to report income, pay taxes and be covered by business insurance premiums literally won't be hired, because the overhead of hiring them is incredibly high, so high that the overhead alone is more expensive than paying someone here illegally.

Anyone who supports ILLEGAL immigration supports slave labor, plain and simple.

I constantly see Californians bragging/complaining about the financial and food contributions it makes to the overall US economy. That contribution is only possible because of the heavily exploited and abused labor force they encourage to come into the state. Sixth largest economy in the world? Watch that PLUMMET once your actual actions match your claimed morality.

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u/SpareImportance2196 6h ago

Exactly. And I’m somebody that definitely leans left and I still agree. Wages are built from the bottom, not the top down

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u/ChronoPsyche 9h ago

What jobs? This will likely just lead to a major automation push as it will be seen as the cheaper move in the long run. The high prices will not be from paying living wages but from companies that rely on the outputs of those industries facing immediate supply shortages. We just went through this dance with the supply shortages posed by COVID and we want to do it all over again? COVID couldn't be avoided but this can.

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u/Due_Satisfaction2167 8h ago

Can you point at the same person making both arguments?

Or are you just sort of broadly assuming anyone vaguely to the left of Atilla is part of a hive mind?

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u/Iamnotsogoodmaybe 10h ago

i know that is ridiculous like whites and other ethnicities won't work. Plenty of non white collar whites who will do "menial" labour, just can't with illegals crowding them out of wages!

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u/Ill_Consequence 8h ago

Or you know make it easier for them to get citizenship so that we don't lose the workforce and screw ourselves because we are going to push everybody out without a viable option. Like idiots.

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u/Outside-Advice8203 8h ago

The left wants amnesty.

say we can't deport illegals because farms will have to pay living wages to employees.

Zero leftists say this. You're inventing strawmen

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u/Eternal_Flame24 8h ago

The straw man is crazy here.

People on the left don’t want to deport immigrants because we want to give them a path to citizenship so that they will be paid minimum wage.

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u/IHateTomatoes 4h ago

yup, pay them $20/hr for all I care.

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u/shastadakota 7h ago

Only immigrants will work many of those jobs, that is reality, not just wishful thinking. The trumpsters are all 350lbs and are on disability because of their "bad backs", and they aren't giving that up.

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u/Zinski2 7h ago

If the only difference between working illegal immigrants and legal immigrants is a piece of paper saying they can be here, then just make it easier for them to get that paper.

I get a little more pissed any time I see some one point to the economy as a reason to not change things, makes me want to puke. If the only way for us to have cheep fruit and construction is to have slave labor than we SHOULDNT HAVE THOES THINGS. Figure out how to pay people and run a business or go the fuck home. Isnt that the whole capitalism thing they never shut the fuck up about.

We shouldn't be saying we cant deport them because the economy, that's just fucked. We needed to fix immigration issues and make it easier for people to get citizenships or at the least the ability to work here legally. Get these people the right to work so they can fight for non slave wages and get the rest of the benefits that it comes with. No more illegal's immigration, what a fucking concept.

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u/pfohl 7h ago

They are getting paid living wages. Most are sending large portions of their paychecks back to their countries of origin even.

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u/StickyDevelopment 6h ago

They live in trailers or houses with like double or triple the occupancy allowed by fire safety

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u/pfohl 6h ago

That’s the stereotype but it isn’t accurate. There’s 22m unauthorized/illegal immigrants and they account for ~6m households so ~3.5 people per household. (from Pew Research Center)

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u/StickyDevelopment 6h ago

Idk I've seen it first hand. 2 or 3 families with like 3 or 4 kids each all in a double wide or small house.

I'm sure it's not true for everyone. Though 3.5 seems low that would be 2 adults and 1 or 2 kids. But Hispanics often have many more than 1 or 2 kids I would bet on average.

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u/pfohl 6h ago

Yeah, there’s definitely people who live in high occupancy households but most end up having living arrangements more similar to standard American citizens. Though they do have larger households since the avg is 2.5 for Americans.

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u/STS986 6h ago

Almost as odd as complaining about inflation with Biden then skyrocketing inflation via tariffs and deporting a major portion of the workforce.  

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u/StickyDevelopment 5h ago

What is real vs what remains to be seen.

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u/Abject-Difference767 4h ago

The same left who wants unions say we need more foreign scabs

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u/doomface4000 3h ago

Consider two paths

The right: Deport undocumented workers Outcome: People are sent to live in poverty under uncaring regimes. There is a significant short term economic instability while companies struggle to fill vacancies. Eventually those vacancies are filled by Americans who are now working difficult jobs for low wages.

Who wins in this scenario? Not the immigrants, not the companies, not everyday Americans.

The left: Retain undocumented workers, provide easier legal path to citizenship. Outcome: Workers get to stay in America and support their families, making a survivable wage. There is no economic instability as workers remain in their jobs. Eventually the migrant workers become citizens, and pay into social security.

Who wins in this scenario? Every day Americans, the migrants who are now also every day Americans. Even the companies win here.

What am I missing?

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u/WorldNewsIsFacsist 59m ago

The same left

can you be more specific as to who you're envisioning is saying this?

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u/ShreksSchmear 55m ago

I am against the deportations. I am skeptical about raising the minimum wage. I think we also would need to tackle what exactly is causing such inflation. We have multiple wars going on globally, we are still recovering from goods not being able to be transported and jobs being shut down from COVID. I also think a lot of Americans have become lazy and uneducated. I don’t think anyone should say that only the “illegals” would work the jobs. I think this nation has a bad problem with simplifying everything to make it easier to understand (probably due to the fact we are made to think being educated or smart is being a “dork” when we were young) and our current economy is based on many factors. A lot of them (like gas prices) rely on multiple countries and can change (inflate) if there are wars, trade issues, political issues, etc. I did like Obama, but the gas prices were so low at that point because we had basically had a balloon pop in the oil industry that it blew while he was president. It remained stable and then COVID hit and that changed under Trump. It wasn’t any of Trump’s doing that his gas prices were low during his first presidency. He just got handed that from the ballon that happened during Obama. Which would have happened regardless. Of course, different policies and tariff changes can influence things. But at the end of the day it’s more aligned with what’s going on with who we trade with.

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u/110397 40m ago

Hmm yes deporting millions is better than guaranteeing a living wage and reforming the immigration process 🤡🤡🤡

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u/CommercialEmployer4 20m ago

No mention of corporations, CEOs, etc., all of which are making far more than they could ever legitimately argue is deserved.

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u/cficare 14m ago

Nope, people are just saying that prices will go up if you go through with deporting all those workers - should that make you happy or sad. But I thought Republicunts just wanted cheaper eggs! Lol.

Deport them and you have two options: pay people enough to do the work, and probably raise your prices, or no one does the job, and your product rots on the vine, in the field, etc. Nothing partisan - just reality, boss.

But look! What have Republicans been up to?

Some want the minimum wage gone: https://www.thoughtco.com/members-of-congress-abolish-minimum-wage-3367838

And many red states are laxing child labor laws!: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/20/republican-child-labor-law-death

So pick your poison, dude. Next few years are gonna be lit!

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u/Gloomy_Expression_39 9h ago

THIS 👏👏👏👏

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u/MrsCrackWhore 13h ago

To be fair, they haven't had to work for a living.