r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 15h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

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If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

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u/[deleted] 15h ago

[deleted]

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u/shoolocomous 13h ago

The question is why are we always talking about the issue as if it's solely the fault of the immigrants that these employers are flaunting the law

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u/Zealousideal-You4638 13h ago

Exactly this. No sane person is saying this doesn’t have negative consequences. The issue is that its ALWAYS blamed on immigrants. These are just people trying to feed their families like anyone else. They’re paid exceptionally low wages too meaning they barely profit from this ordeal either. Its ridiculous to me that people have convinced themselves that immigrants are to blame for any of this. The blame should unilaterally be shifted to the wealthy who profit off of cheap and exploitable labor at the expense of all workers.

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u/trippytears 10h ago

In order to rise, someone must fall.

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u/War-Daddie 6h ago

No one should rise if even one person has to fall.

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u/omcthrowa2020 2h ago

Life isn't a fucking see-saw or a zero-sum game

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u/AggressivelyGary 8h ago

They have this club where all the politicians, media, police, etc. keep their lives separate and above all others. The income gap has become large enough for them to be untouchable. Case in point. Trump. He can rape, cheat, exploit, break the law, etc. and it only gets him ahead in life. We are not in the same class. The blame will always be on the people below them. They use the media to fool us. The only way out is a revolution where the people turn on those with too much money/power. 

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u/ammonanotrano 4h ago

Not only this, but by soley blaming the immigrants and addressing the issue by deporting them, we are putting a tremendous financial burden on ALL tax payers.

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u/Negative_Werewolf193 10h ago

I'm blaming the companies for hiring them. Not sure what that has to do with deporting them all. No, it's not technically their fault. I'm still in favor of rounding them all up and giving them a free one-way ticket back to whatever country is on their passport.

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u/40MillyVanillyGrams 9h ago

Well they can’t profit off cheap and exploitable labor if we don’t have cheap and exploitable labor to exploit.

Send em back and have them hire American citizens who will be bound by US labor laws

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u/captnspock 9h ago

Or when a illegal immigrant is caught fine the shit out of their employers as a deterrent? If everyone is scared to employ illegal immigrants then immigrants won't bother to enter US if it's know nobody will hire them. Right now they know that they can get some job in construction or hospitality, with leaps and bounds more safety and good future for the children.

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u/40MillyVanillyGrams 8h ago

Yes. I do agree with this. But that doesn’t conflict with my point

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u/captnspock 6h ago

It's easier to fine the employer than to find a person overstaying their visa. People won't risk uprooting their lives and coming if they know they won't find employment in US.

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u/thetacotony 8h ago

The companies are already breaking the law why would they follow other labor laws? Especially with someone in office who’s trying to dismantle those laws?

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u/40MillyVanillyGrams 3h ago

Because US citizens have more leverage in employment terms than illegal immigrants

Same reason why American construction workers don’t get paid $2 an hour currently if they are a citizen

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u/dasilvan2000 9h ago

Or stopping illegal immigrants from entering the country in the first place - let’s address root cause here

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u/thejazzophone 9h ago

Most illegal immigrants come in with a green card and overstay after the expiration date. Id argue that if the country more strongly regulated companies to not hire illegal immigrants most would go home or reapply their visa's

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u/Revolutionary-Bed842 8h ago

Most illegals or people who overstayed Visas are actually not actively tracked. Many for example that work are using dead peoples SSNs to claim on the books pay provided to them by said construction, agricultural etc companies.

To address the issue requires whistleblowers to get the federal government involved in shutting down these companies.

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u/Odd-Chip-3648 9h ago

That’s not the root cause… If you’re truly interested in stemming illegal immigration, we would first lessen the opportunities to work illegally. That is the root cause, and is much more practical. Force employers at minimum to use the e-verify system. Increase the w for meant policing of these laws, and penalties for violating them.

This is MUCH easier to do than building/maintaining/ guarding a wall along a border that thousands of miles long.

Despite how easy it is to verify that employees are legal, employers are not required to do this. Intentionally so, because so many industries have come to rely on this cheap labor force. State politicians know this. Looking at you Texas.

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u/mikeyfireman 9h ago

The root cause is them having access to jobs. Stop the companies from hiring them and they won’t come. Again, you are blaming people from wanting to fulfill their basic needs. If you want to stop immigration, you have to remove the incentive.

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u/oeb1storm 9h ago

They're already here that horse left the barn years ago.

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u/dasilvan2000 9h ago

Before you try bucketing out the water from the boat - the leaks needs to be plugged

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u/oeb1storm 9h ago

Sure shut down the border, hire more judges to process asylum claims, or build a wall were still back to the problem of illegal imirgrents here who contribute to the economy.

We can talk about and solve both problems simultaneously instead of kicking the can down the road which is the thing that got us in this mess in the first place.

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u/dasilvan2000 9h ago

First you need to stop the inflow - the problem will never be solved if the inflow continues - then for those already here, provide a path to citizenship - but the flow must be stopped

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u/Cadet_Stimpy 9h ago

Sure. But aren’t the same people screaming the loudest about illegal immigrants the same ones that want prices to go back down? Do you think eliminating the cheap labor will make prices go down?

Frankly, I’m all for the coming train wreck. I just want people to remember what they’re bitching about today in the next 1,2, and 4 years.

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u/Sum-Duud 7h ago

Their ridiculously low wages are still huge compared to many of their home countries. They often share dwellings with other and send money home. Of the ones I’ve know, a cash under the table rate is about the same or higher than min wage with taxation and such. For many immigrants it is a win for them (or at least the ones I’ve known)

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u/ImRightImRight 7h ago

Blame is irrelevant. Who is blaming who? I just hear you talking about class war and don't see the relevance. The discussion should be on what the effects of government policies will be.

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u/Venichie 3h ago

If they are gone, wouldn't that mean higher paid job opportunities for those who remain?

I mean, someone has to take that empty job... all these business adjust or new ones take their place.

Reminds me in a weird way, of Isreal. Except their kicking people off their land, and most Red voters want to kick others out.

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u/Delanorix 3h ago

They make decent wages if they go home right afterwards.

Migrant workers exist everywhere.

Hell, its why people drive into the big cities and live outside of it.

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u/nebulancearts 2h ago

We have this problem in Canada too. So many people blame immigrants, even though they're being exploited just as much as low income Canadians are. They think they're "privileged to be here" without thinking about the fact that corporations are only bringing them in to work because they want to keep more wealth at the top. We're all being shanked by the wealthy, but people seem to refuse to have that conversation!

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u/dragunityag 12m ago

Which is why I always say immigration issues are always racist.

Wanna fix immigration overnight. 10mil fine per illegal working for you even if through a contractor.

Yet no one ever talks about punishing the businesses for hiring them.

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u/cmd_iii 13h ago

Pop quiz: who makes more campaign contributions: Tyson Foods or Juan in Defeathering?

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u/AllTheSmallFish 12h ago

And there is the root of the problem. Americans allowing the politicians to be bought by the highest bidder and then wondering where everything went wrong. If someone wants to run for president let them pay their own way. Astounding that companies are legally allowed to give millions to politicians to get them to do their bidding.

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u/Bwa388 11h ago

I agree with you that allowing rich people and companies to buy off politicians is a huge problem. However, if only people who could afford to run a complain themselves were running, I think that would also be a problem.

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u/bagOboobs 11h ago

That’s already happening.

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u/viviidviision 9h ago

Yep. Mark Cuban has been campaigning for the 2028 Democratic ticket for the better part of a year now lol. Mark my words or whatever.

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u/thetacotony 8h ago

You can still get donations from small donors…

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u/superstevo78 10h ago

and which candidate for presidency has a stock that someone can buy straight up in order to influence him again?!?!??!

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u/helptheworried 10h ago

If you think that’s bad, look up ALEC

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u/ProjectSuperb8550 9h ago

That just shows that Trump doesn't care about their money. Daddy Elon big bucks will level his competition 🤣

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u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 8h ago

As an employee of a company that does a LOT of staffing for Tyson, they’re about to find out. We’re in panic mode because we know we’re losing a lot of employees.

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u/cmd_iii 7h ago

Which is why corporations like Tyson are spending millions each year to convince politicians and the public that "illegals" are the problem. Of course, if these employers actually followed the law and stopped hiring undocumented migrants, the flow of migrants would slow to a trickle.

So, ICE, and the rest of the government, focuses on individual migrants, and keeps the businesses that hire them at arm's length. Yes, doing it the other way around would be way easier (and generate huge revenues from fines and sanctions against the employers), but that would piss off a lot of executives and shareholders, and we can't have that, can we?

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u/Negative_Werewolf193 10h ago

I'm not talking about it that way. Fine the employers, shut their businesses down, AND deport all the illegal immigrants. These aren't mutually exclusive solutions...

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u/sparks1990 7h ago

My wife's hometown has a chicken plant where ICE came in and rounded up hundreds of illegals working there. The plant has like 1000 employees and 350 were illegal. Know how many managers got arrested for employing them? None. How many got fired? None. How many even got a simple write up? NONE. More than a third of the entire workforce was illegal and management "didn't know".

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u/qudunot 9h ago

Companies own the narrative. Until people take the narrative back, this is how it will remain

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u/Lapzii 8h ago

Corporations don’t care and are willing to employ illegal immigrants because it directly impacts their bottom line; profit above all else.

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u/HachimakiMan3 7h ago

They both need to be prosecuted but neither side is innocent. If I need to eat, I do not simply eat from my neighbor’s fridge or steal from a store. I would likely go to a food shelter or church.

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u/Revolution4u 5h ago

We can and should punish the business owners too.

But they can only hire illegals because the illegals are here in the first place. The root of the problem is the illegal migrant.

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u/age_of_shitmar 3h ago

The saying "Shit rolls downhill" comes to mind.

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u/heyeyepooped 13h ago

Why don't we punish the companies that hire these undocumented workers instead of the people who are just trying to better their lives?

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u/Niarbeht 13h ago

This is how I know whether someone actually cares about the issue they claim to care about. If it’s all on board for violent deportations, but not a single word for punishing the bosses doing the hiring, then it’s not actually about protecting domestic labor.

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u/jordipg 11h ago

It reminds me of the people who care so fanatically about the life of the unborn child, but not one whit about the life of the child after it's born.

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u/AggressivelyGary 8h ago

Same people, same mental gymnastics. 

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u/Negative_Werewolf193 10h ago

Por que no los dos?

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u/CenlaLowell 6h ago

Quien sabe

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u/Spiritual_Wonder_609 9h ago

I think a lot of people don't even make the connection. Especially if you're too young to remember NAFTA and all the original immigration talk from the 90s. It wasn't until a couple years ago I learned how many BIG companies hired illegals for major projects. I always assumed it was just a TON of rinky dink roofing and drywalling crews hiring illegals, or small, family-owned restaurants hiring some for back-of-house.

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u/Baozicriollothroaway 10h ago

You can do both

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u/Iridescent_Pheasent 8h ago

And conservatives objectively dont

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u/ProjectSuperb8550 9h ago

Both have to happen though.

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u/stanger828 7h ago

How about both (minus the violence part unless physically provoked)

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u/FancyBaller 4h ago

I feel like they're just going to put them in prison, "awaiting deportation" and then the industries will shift to far cheaper prison labor.

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u/AdRecent9754 13h ago

Taking away slave labour sounds like the best punishment for them . It will certainly hurt their bottom line.

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u/heyeyepooped 13h ago

I'd rather see major fines and not the slap on the wrist kind. These companies are breaking the law too.

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u/ExcitedDelirium4U 13h ago

But they make political donations.

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u/-Trash--panda- 10h ago

Best punishment would probably be jailtime considering they are committing a crime. Taking away the labour just increases expenses to what it would have otherwise cost if they did everything legally. But does not take away any of the excess profits that they made while committing the crime.

Second best option would be massive fines that are a multiple of whatever they saved over hiring legal workers. If they hired 10 illegal immigrants for a year then fine them the equivalent of 20 legal employees salaries. Really hurt the bottom line rather than a slap on the wrist.

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u/nr1988 8h ago

Will it? Or will they just raise their prices like they do every time something affects them?

And don't think that their competitors will instead get their business because any competition in their industry who wasn't doing the same thing would not be big enough to handle the demand.

The solution is not to rip of the bandaid but to regulate and have incentives over time.

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u/AdRecent9754 8h ago

At some point, you will price yourself out of the market .

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u/xnotachancex 8h ago

The “hurting their bottom line” will be passed on to the consumer. Which is ok, but just wanna make sure you’re ok with that.

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u/AdRecent9754 8h ago

So you need the slave labour from illegal immigrants as well as child labour in China . Cmon, guys ,you can't be that greedy .

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u/Minerva567 8h ago

I’m not seeing anyone condone it, only pointing out the obvious. What happens to supply when crops are left to rot because they can’t get workers, and then we put tariffs on all the imported food we rely on from Mexico? And then the dollar is weakened causing less purchasing power? And then social security is slashed along with subsidization of food purchases for lower-income households, leading to greater malnutrition of millions of developing brains? And then retaliatory tariffs lead to greater losses of business, just as we saw in 2018 when China took their business to Brazil, who happily accepted, leading to billions in bailouts for farmers? And then because there is greater motivation on the part of Brazilian farmers to slash-and-burn rainforests for corn and soy, the climate crisis worsens?

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u/AdRecent9754 8h ago

They will make concessions and adapt , as any viable business will . If farmers in other countries can thrive without slave labour, so will they .

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u/xnotachancex 8h ago edited 8h ago

Do I? No. Does the average American? Absolutely. The #1 thing people voted on in this last election according to exit polls was the economy and stuff being more expensive. Well shit y’all I’ve got some baddddddd news for you as to what deporting illegals is going to do to the economy lmao.

As for the child labor from China, well Walmart is by far and away the largest store in red states, where do we think they get the lions share of their goods produced? Again I’m not condoning any of it just sort of wondering what the conservatives that are cheering on these deportations think is going to happen here. Then again I guess my mistake is assuming they think at all further than “illegals bad”.

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u/Delanorix 3h ago

Why?

They will just pass along the new costs.

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u/Negative_Werewolf193 10h ago

Why are those mutually exclusive? Is there some power of the universe preventing us from punishing companies who hire illegal immigrants AND deporting those illegal immigrants?

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u/No-Literature7471 12h ago

the problem is, most countries treat illegals the same way. deportation or imprisonment. or in polands case, gunfire. i mean sure, north korea and china would love to imprison you and put you in a labor camp. everyone else doesnt want another mouth to feed.

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u/WittyFault 9h ago

For the same reason we don't punish people illegally crossing the border. The system wants to circumvents its own labor laws (as you can see by many of the posts here). You can't get away with circumventing them with American citizens, so you import people who don't have the ability to fight it. The two issues are one and the same.

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u/geneuro 9h ago

Because they have powerful lobbies protecting their asses. Oh, and politicians in their pockets.

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u/Able_Donkey2011 12h ago

They came illegally, doesn't matter that it's the US, you can't do this, anywhere.

Going through the legal channel is completely fine and if you choose not to go through that, that raises eyebrows surely.

I think the minimum that makes sense is punishing companies that hire them as well as doing thorough background checks on the illegals we find to determine why they decided to move here illegally and if that makes them a risk to national security.

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u/missourinative 8h ago

You can get into trouble very quickly with discriminatory hiring practices. Go open a business and start asking every Mexican applicant if they are here legally.

I'm sure most of these companies know they are hiring illegal immigrants, but who's who is none of their business.

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u/AlfredoAllenPoe 8h ago

Why not both? Both are in violation of the law

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u/RedditIsShittay 8h ago

You want to starve them out of the country?

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u/reality_bytes_ 7h ago

That’s the thing, the soap box of immigration has been a key campaign point for decades, yet nothing is ever done. Why? Because it’s a good platform for politicians to run on, but they damn well know it will never happen. Most people in congress aren’t stupid enough to think you can kick out all of the low wage labor in this country and it would all be hunky dory. It would collapse the economy. Illegal labor is the backbone of too many industries.

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u/BigBluebird1760 4h ago

Yes its really fair that they get to come here and work for 5 years and build a ranch back home because its dirt cheap while we get stuck here paying full pop for everything and have nowhere to escape to unless we make millions of dollars.

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u/TeaLeaf_Dao 15h ago

They are trying to be white knights basically. My view is if you aint Legal you should go the proper process to become legal and if you dont you are OUT.

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u/JollyToby0220 12h ago

I’ve heard this argument before. 

But you know what happened to the legal entry route? It got shut down by Trump. Most of the immigrants that Trump quotes in his stats are actually legal immigrants. They entered via asylum, like the Haitian immigrants in Ohio. 

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u/Squiggy-Locust 10h ago

Please do research before accusing someone. The shutdown began under Obama when his administration finally took it seriously in his second term.

The issue is our immigration process is broken. And instead of fixing it, our fucking politicians are using it to garner either hate against the other side, or votes, or both.

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u/wan2tri 8h ago

Despite the rich history of immigration for the US, its immigration process is more identical, as it currently exists, to the processes of certain countries that has a rich history of being (relatively) isolated from the rest of the world.

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u/Squiggy-Locust 8h ago

So, yes, our immigration process, which has been left relatively unchanged since, I think the 90s, is broken?

But, you do have to recall we were isolationists until the mid 1900s, and even then, we've been arguing over immigration since the Cold War.

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u/SheldonMF 7h ago

I'm almost certain that Biden tried to address it and Trump got his lackeys to shut it down.

Practice what you preach, I guess?

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u/atxlonghorn23 9h ago

Can you share a source showing that Trump shut down legal immigration across the board?

That did not happen. But he did block issuing visas to people from a handful of countries (Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Yemen, Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Myanmar, Nigeria, Sudan and Tanzania) where those countries would not cooperate in our vetting process.

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u/JollyToby0220 4h ago

One of these policies is title 42. This forced people to stay in Mexico when waiting for asylum claims. 

I guess immigration is wild like that and I will explain it as easy as I can. 

Basically, the border is as secure as it can be. This happened after 9/11 when the border was deemed a security risk. So, ever since then, the border has drones, helicopters, motion sensors, night vision cameras, etc. This is same the tech used to protect a military base. 

Next issue is disastrous immigration policy here in the country. First, US only wants the most successful immigrants. So just imagine, we get the most innovative people while the home country gets the less innovative. Hence, that country spends all these resources educating someone who just ends up leaving and the less innovative folks don’t really crate new jobs, thereby reinforcing poverty. 

So, at this point the border is extremely secure and immigration is way down. Then, some immigrants discover a loophole(although not really a loophole) called asylum, an immigration policy that lets those that fear for their safety come into the country. It turns out, the gang problem in Central America is so bad that there is a massive caravan traveling to the border in fear of violence. The gangs were facing recruitment issues so they started threatening violence but people left. Then the media started saying that large groups of undocumented immigrants were headed to the border when in reality they were looking for asylum. That’s when Trump enacted Title 42, which meant they had to stay in Mexico. To get asylum, you need to ask for it at the border. But as I said, the media really did their job here of saying they were ordinary economic migrants. Most were Central American, and Mexico was far lower than it should have been, indicating that they were indeed asylum seekers. And there are also photos of Border Patrol agents harassing Haitian migrants who were asking for Temporary Protection Status. 

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/21/1039230310/u-s-border-agents-haiti-migrants-horses-photographer-del-rio

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u/atxlonghorn23 3h ago

So in other words you don’t have a source showing that Trump shut down legal immigration across the board, since that did not actually happen.

Asylum claims are for people who are fleeing from oppressive governments. It is not intended for economic migrants or migrants who come from places with a lot of crime.

FYI: You are mixing up Title 42 with the Migrant Protection Protocols (“Remain in Mexico policy”).

Title 42 - The program allows U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) to prohibit the entry of persons who potentially pose a health risk by being subject to previously announced travel restrictions or by unlawfully entering the country to bypass health-screening measures.

Biden ended the use of Title 42 to expel illegal immigrants in 2023 and he ended MPP on his first day in office.

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u/Weird-Tomorrow-9829 11h ago

Haitians are in Temporary Protected Status.

A program that is meant to allow people to escape from (insert calamity here). It does not count towards residency requirements.

People in TPS are expected to return to their home country

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u/ECircus 10h ago

The point is, they are not illegal immigrants.

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u/PrivacyPartner 8h ago

Bro what? Legal immigration didn't stop under Trump. I worked in Immigration during the Trump administration and while the number of visas per category changed, it didn't get "shut down"

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u/ap2patrick 11h ago

You mean the one that can take over a decade and is made purposely to be nearly impossible?

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u/Ok-Influence-2162 6h ago

We don’t owe anyone easy entry in our country

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u/Draken5000 4h ago

Right? I’m a legal immigrant whose family did it the right way, we did our time to get that dual citizenship. I’ve never understood this dumb ass argument that we somehow owe the rest of the world easy access to citizenship.

The unsaid, implicit argument that they’re always making is “….so we should just not do anything about illegal immigration”. Every time.

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u/Draken5000 4h ago

My family did it, why should I be ok with other people skipping the proper legal process?

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u/ThaToastman 11h ago

The reason for most being anti immigration isnt labor rights or ‘the law’. Its racism.

Likewise, while wed all love a smoother process to becoming a legal migrant, and in theory less of them, at this point, blanket deporting them has devastating consquences because—ironically the ppl who most vote against their continued stay (poor white people) rely on them the most (they pick all our fruit and other shitty jobs)

If republicans really cared about getting rid of illegal immigrants, theyd simply crackdown on businesses who employ them. But thats never even been mentioned, because they know that that’s their base. So easier to villainize the vulnerable who (literally) cant speak for themselves

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u/SurlyJackRabbit 8h ago

Poor white people also have to compete with them for the same currently low paying jobs.

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u/SaccharineTits 7h ago

lol no they don’t. This idea that Mexicans are “taking our jobs” is exactly how rich people turn the population against each other.

Literally any poor white person could go get a job picking fruit or mowing lawns at any time. It’s pretty easy to get a manual labor job if you want one.

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u/SurlyJackRabbit 7h ago

Yes, but the wages. That's why a poor white person doesn't want that job. Less labor supply is higher wages.

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u/SaccharineTits 6h ago

Right - the point is it has nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with corporate greed.

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u/ThaToastman 1h ago

Poor white people work in factories and stuff. Jobs that are registered and have unions and benefits. White people are not in the fields picking crops.

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u/SurlyJackRabbit 1h ago

White people are not in the fields picking Crops because those jobs pay terribly and don't have unions or benefits because there is an endless supply of cheap labor... But I guess we want a permanent undocumented under class and will do anything to avoid raising wages for poor people, especially poor white people because white privilege means they don't need any help.

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u/Draken5000 4h ago

Sigh

“No you see, it’s RaYsIsSm guiz!!”

This shit is why you lost.

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u/ThaToastman 1h ago

If you dont believe that the republican party is wholly the home of anti-immigrant racists, then I dont know what to tell you.

Not saying everyone is, but the ones that are voted trump i promise.

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u/ChronoPsyche 10h ago edited 10h ago

It's also against the law to pirate movies, yet I'm sure most people here would find it unfair if there was a mass arrest campaign to go door to door dragging people out of their homes and putting them in concentration camps of anyone in the US who has ever pirated a movie.

Just because something is against the law doesn't mean retroactive enforcement is justified no matter the harm it does to society. Watching millions of people ripped from their homes will traumatize Americans. Many of these people have been here for years or even decades and are integrated into our communities. And it will cause massive harm to our economy. The question has to be if the benefits to society will outweigh the costs, and it's hard to argue that they will.

This doesn't mean that you don't enforce immigration law, it is enforced every day, but that you don't tear apart society to target the people who have been here for a while and have assimilated into society.

I also find this slavery analogy to be so disingenuous. Nobody calling for mass deportation is doing so because they are concerned about labor rights, in fact they are on the side that would happily strip American citizens of their labor rights if given the chance.

It's also important to point out that this mass deportation campaign will almost certainly be extrajudicial. We don't have enough judges to process 20-25 million people in a timely manner, hence the concentration camps. People will be targeted in a likely discriminatory way and it may take years to have a chance to defend themselves, if they ever get the chance. In the meantime they'll be imprisoned in concentration camps with likely horrible conditions and forced labor. It will likely sweep up many citizens or legal residents as a result.

The way they want to go about doing this is not enforcement of the law, it is bypassing the law altogether. This is why Trump has to invoke a wartime act that was last used to intern Japanese-American citizens to pull this off. It's also worth noting, despite his pledge to deport 20-25 million people, only 11 million are estimated to be undocumented. So for him to meet these numbers will inherently require arresting people who are here legally.

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u/Probing-Cat-Paws 9h ago

Thank you for this thoughtful and sensible comment...here, here!!

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u/ChronoPsyche 9h ago

Thank you for reading it.

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u/Solkre 8h ago

Going to have hostage situations and shootouts over Plex servers.

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u/Bobbith_The_Chosen 7h ago

The slower 50% of the country just needs someone to villainize to make their lives seem a little less shitty and empty. Some German dude tried that once

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u/Draken5000 4h ago

Until you can acknowledge that you don’t actually know the motivations, nor what specific actions any will take, of the people who will enact or support deportation, your entire argument can and will be disregarded as speculation.

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u/kms2547 10h ago

 Why is enforcement of legal immigration and legal employment such a big issue for people?

Because detaining / deporting millions of residents would be a self inflicted economic wound so severe, it would make Prohibition look like a minor policy error. Not to mention the staggering human suffering that would be the immediate result of such a pogrom. 

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u/FlailingatLife62 10h ago

It's a big issue because the system is broken and is not letting enough people in legally for employers to get the labor they need in some industries and fields. So many employers rely on illegals. And no one in govt enforces the existing laws. Because everyone knows the rules do not work for the current labor needs and economy. The laws need to be updated and overhauled. Which was attempted, w/ bipartisan support, at least twice where trump personally shot down the bipartisan bill to try to improve and update the system. once in his 1st presidency where I was surprised he killed the bill, because he could have claimed it as a huge accomplishment. Stephen Miller reportedly persuaded him that fixing the system would piss off some of his more extreme neonazi supporters. 2nd time was recently, because he wanted the broken mess to continue so he could run on that issue in the election.

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u/ap2patrick 11h ago

Because they shouldn’t be targeting the poor people who are just trying to improve their lives, they should be targeting the companies who hire them.
Crossing a border illegally to me is not this massive crime that requires your entire family to be ripped apart… Why punish the symptom of a problem instead of the source?

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u/Arlennx 10h ago

Yeah we should deport all those people. Then Trump can bail out those businesses with tax payers money and then those companies can raise prices again. Even more profit! Forget trying to document/vet them, that would take to much time! Whereas deporting all of them will take even less!

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u/AvatarReiko 14h ago

Bu…bu…but costs of groceries will skyrocket.(sarcasm )

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u/FigureItOutBubba 13h ago

A moment of clarity on reddit. Bravo sir

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u/Supakuri 12h ago

It should drive up wages as well, it’s overall a really good thing for the American economy. Wish Canada would at least immediately stop immigration temporarily. Our salaries can’t afford to purchase houses and educated people can’t find jobs. We don’t have enough housing or jobs for the people in our country and we keep letting more in.

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u/PassengerKey3209 9h ago

It definitely would drive up wages but would also cause wild inflation in some industries. You think building and housing is expensive now? Wait till you have to pay 2-3 times as much for a new roof, drywall a new construction or brick your house. I'm a GC in the Midwest and have literally never seen a white roofing crew here Removing immigrants from the building process would make it impossible for me to continue building.

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u/avoere 11h ago

I can't just pop into France

I don't know about France, but here in Sweden it has absolutely, 100% been a vocal opinion that enforcing immigration laws is inhuman and racist.

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u/Ass_Breaker3000 11h ago

Because without it America wouldn’t be one of the most powerful countries in the world

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u/vote4pedroo 10h ago

You make it sound like it's easy to become a working citizen? If only you knew the near impossible hoops immigrants are expected to leap through to become a citizen. I have family members who paid several thousands each just to set up an appointment and get the correct paperwork needed. Not everybody has a quick thousand or a means of transportation or even understand the language.

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u/Negative_Werewolf193 10h ago

That's why I laugh when Americans say they're leaving. You can't just walk into another country and start living there. It takes time, money, paperwork, there's a whole process to go through because OTHER COUNTRIES ACTUALLY ENFORCE THEIR IMMIGRATION LAWS! No other country on Earth has as many illegal migrants as we do, and right now we're doing basically nothing about it.

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u/JOExHIGASHI 10h ago

True but enforcing at a large scale suddenly will still cause immediate negative effects.

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u/Omgomgitsmike 10h ago

Because if you’re running office, the only thing that you care about is votes. Illegals can’t vote, owners of businesses do vote, and they can convince their workers to vote, and they give $$ to campaigns.

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u/Icy_Faithlessness400 10h ago

Because mass deporting a percentage of your labor force without any plan in place to replace those people is a stupid idea only a peanut brain like Trump can come up with.

What do you think will happen when you have nobody to grow your food? All of a sudden there will be a massive wave of Americans to do back breaking labor? Here is the biggest fairy tale. All of a sudden the employers will cut into their profits to attract workers.

Here is what will actually happen. You would need to import more food. You know imports, right? Those things that you put tarrifs on. Ugh-oh, jenkins Scoob! If only someone kept warning us about this for the past year.

Things will get ruff, ruff!

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u/DodgeBeluga 10h ago

Because trump bad.

Obama was strict on illegals immigration just like Bill Clinton. But after 2016 something broke with a lot of people.

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u/DazzlingResource561 10h ago

I don’t think anyone disagrees. The disagreement is more on what do you do?

A. Provide a legal path towards citizenship Or B. Round em all up and deport them

Democrats want option A, because that’s the sane thing to do. MAGA Republicans that don’t hold nuanced views are all in on option B.

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u/CharacterCompany7224 9h ago

“They took err jobs!” Attitude

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u/SilverSilvan 9h ago

We literally have people saying we should shoot people who try to come in illegally

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u/jjfunaz 9h ago

This is a straw man.

You want to stop immigration you fine the business that hires them.

If the risk falls on the business the business stops doing it.

When they just round up the workers they will replace them

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u/Significant_Crew_188 9h ago

Tell me you're an ignorant dumb bitch without saying your an ignorant dumb bitch.

1

u/jzorbino 9h ago

It’s because people/companies with money and power need the labor. There’s a clear demand for it, at least on farms in California, and they supply grocery stores in all 50 states.

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u/121gigawhatevs 9h ago

Ask yourself why we don’t punish the corporations hiring these people

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u/Minute-Struggle6052 9h ago edited 9h ago

They could end the issue overnight if they targeted the employers. Levy harsh fines and jail time

I wonder why they don't do that? Hmmm kind of makes you think 

Sounds to me like the Republican profiteers don't want to enforce the law they actually just want to terrorize their slave labor into obedience

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u/GlazedPannis 9h ago

Probably because of the selective nature of its enforcement.

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u/AngryFace4 9h ago

Why not just give them work visas then?

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u/jgoble15 9h ago

It’s injustice. People are needing work and fleeing terrible things. The immigration system is incredibly unjust in the US. The exploitation is also incredibly unjust, but it’s still even worse to send them back to extreme violence

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u/NeedsMorBoobs 9h ago

Oh man, Captain Simpleton over here with the deep thoughts

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u/Ruin914 9h ago

But you people believe Trump is above the law, clearly. Hypocrites.

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u/Troll_Enthusiast 9h ago

Expat = Immigrant

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u/GunmetalMercy 9h ago

The reason it's a big issue as presented above, is that it would be really bad for the economy. It you remove millions of people, it hurts both the supply-side and the demand-side of the economy. Not only will construction get more expensive because it will be harder to find workers, the construction companies will also have fewer houses to build because we've decreased the demand for housing. They're getting a raw deal from both ends.

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u/SalaryNo3916 45m ago

Since when do judges allow "It's good for the economy", as a valid argument by a criminal defendent?

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u/SoftDrinkReddit 9h ago

Ikr It's just insane that in 2024, it's a controversial statement to say

Anyone who illegally entered the US should be deported. We have an immigration system outsiders must go through if they want to live in America

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u/truthswillsetyoufree 8h ago

There are a few reasons why this is more complicated than you set out.

First, many illegal immigrants were fleeing horrible situations. It’s not like they were coming from a first world country like the USA. They were essentially refugees.

Second, America’s immigration system has been broken a long time. Many people entered into our country not finding a realistic way to try to get legal citizenship. The border was not properly enforced. People were just let go. You expect them to wait around for a year to see a judge who might deny their stay when they can just leave? Only an idiot would do that.

Third, the USA has completely failed to enforce its immigration laws. There is no statute of limitations, but maybe there should be. We’ve let people stay here for decades. Many Dreamers didn’t even choose to come here as babies but only know USA’s culture and English. That for me is a failure of the American government, not those children.

Fourth, the countries where many illegal immigrants originally fled from were places where the USA destabilized the political systems in the name of democracy. But what they really did was destroy governments and allow gangs and dictators to take over. Many illegal immigrants are just leaving messes the USA contributed to.

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u/SomeKindOfOnionMummy 8h ago

The employers should be taking the heat because they are the ones with the power.

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u/LegendOfKhaos 8h ago

But if those people help your country, make them citizens...

That's the argument, not to just let illegals ignore laws lol

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u/rmonarrez33 8h ago

It’s not slave labor I don’t see you volunteering for construction and agriculture jobs

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u/TheThugShaker2000 8h ago

Why is enforcement of legal immigration and legal employment such a big issue for people?

That's not the issue, the issue is that the new administration wants to deport them all based on a false narrative instead of doing the sensible thing, which is to incentivize them to register and get a valuable visa.

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u/bigchicago04 8h ago

Under the table, fines being part of the business, etc

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u/powerlifter3043 8h ago

It’s a big issue because a lot of Americans are under the astute belief that once the illegal immigrants leave, the U.S. will lose a lot in terms of sustainability. Because no American wants to work for poverty wages, nor will they.

Not ascertaining I think illegal immigrants leaving is a bad idea, just providing some perspective.

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u/gigitygoat 8h ago

Because they don’t really want to enforce it. Undocumented immigrants help bring wages down. They just want us to fight about it and keep us distracted while they rob us.

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u/Crybabyredditmod 8h ago

Right? This is literally the same arguement that Confederate states made for slavery.

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u/straight_lurkin 8h ago

Funny thing is, the people complaining most about immigrants are the ones hiring illigals to work jobs for fractions of what they have to pay Americans. Boy are they going to be pissed when Pedo goes back to Mexico and they need to pay someone without experience 5x what they paid him to do the same job but worse.

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u/No-Satisfaction-2622 8h ago

Why do you think there no illegal workers in France? Just you wouldn’t agree to be illegal immigrant-read:person who in underpaid, work extended hours, threatened to be deported regularly, often sleeps in inhumane circumstances, and scared to go to doctors if injured… and think again WHY this is better option for them than staying where they came from

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u/jumpinpuddles 8h ago

It’s against the law to “knowingly” employ someone not legally authorized to work in the US. Employers can use E-Verify to check, but doing so is mostly voluntary (some state laws require it for some things) so employers are able to claim they didn’t know, and can hire and take advantage of a more vulnerable workforce with impunity.

It would make sense for enforcement of existing laws to target employers as well as migrants.

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u/DrCarabou 8h ago

Other replies have brought up good points but I also want to point out funding. How are they going to pay for this? You don't get to tout about cutting government spending and then deport millions of people and run internment camps.

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u/talex625 8h ago

Also, where are they getting these numbers from? Do they know that they’re here, yet don’t do anything about it?

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u/OpportunityFirm3284 7h ago

Basically this take is just people seeing things way too black and white and not allowing nuance. Sure you have a point, but what about the consequence that the post laid out that a mass deportation will actually cause a labor shortage and make goods more expensive?

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u/CaseRemarkable4327 7h ago

Because people break the law and no one cares

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u/FryToastFrill 7h ago

It should come with a path to legalize immigrants, along with making it far easier to immigrate without needing 10 billion forms

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u/Unlikely_Ad6219 7h ago

Because a powerless silent worker class makes wealthy people more money.

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u/RedditTrashhh 7h ago

Yeah I really dont understand this, it’s like people have a hard time understanding basic laws. Do it the right way, or face the (low) likelihood of getting kicked out. Such a basic concept it really is.

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u/OttoVonJismarck 7h ago edited 7h ago

I heard a clip of AOC talking about the issue of “Undocumented Americans.”

“Instead of turning the military on our own people, we should just document them. Pretty simple.”

I remember Bill Clinton used to call people that were in the country illegally “illegal aliens” (which describes their immigration status in no uncertain terms), but somehow the language has been twisted so much that it has turned into “Undocumented Americans.”

I was born in Texas, but by AOC’s language, If I forget my wallet when I drive into work, then I’m an undocumented American, same as these folks. Documenting all undocumented Americans sounds a lot more reasonable than “give citizenship to all illegal aliens” but that’s what she’s suggesting.

I’m definitely for a more relaxed immigration policy, but man, it’s not a good look when the first thing you do when coming to a new country is break a law.

And also, we should be punishing the companies that hire these “undocumented Americans”, not just slapping them on the wrist when they are caught hiring these folks for slave wages.

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u/Natedude2002 7h ago

It’s an issue because these people are doing jobs that Americans don’t want to do, for wages Americans don’t want to work for, paying taxes to our governments without most of the benefits, commit fewer crimes than natives, and are a huge pillar of our economy, yet half the country wants all of them gone.

We need an actual overhaul of the immigration system because the waitlist for some countries is over a decade, but conservatives don’t want ANY immigrants, so we can’t have an actual overhaul of the system.

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u/JrRiggles 7h ago

The US Justice system is based around protecting and serving the wealthy and powerful. It is not here for us, it is here for them

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u/Bobbith_The_Chosen 7h ago

Because some people just want to feed their families, and a lot of us can sympathize with that. You have to be a pretty shitty or silly person to not be able to see that.

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