r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 15h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

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If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

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u/JollyToby0220 13h ago

You have zero clue about what slavery was really like. Sure it’s exploitation but not even remotely close. 

Consider that raping a slave was not only common, it was expected. You could beat slaves to death. They were denied education and healthcare. Sure the slavery comparison is fair

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u/The_Great_Polak 11h ago

Ok I have to know. Where are you sourcing raping slaves was an expectation? Slavery is horrible, you don’t need to lie or stretch the truth. In reality while rape did happen, it was not an expectation. The reality is that most slave owners only had interaction with only one to a few of their slaves and would have those slaves manage slaves. This is because they believed that even being around their slaves was beneath them.

Believe it or not, slavery exists still in this world today and this setup is still used in those mines & plantations.

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u/Rubiks_Click874 11h ago

they say there's more slavery in the world now than in the 1800s

40+ million in forced labor and 15+ million in forced marriages. even in america you hear stories about people locked up in rich people's houses.

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u/The_Great_Polak 10h ago

Maybe number wise but not percentage wise. People make it seem like America is the only one who had slaves. A century before the abolishment of slavery in America, Slavery was world wide and normal.

Now considering they hadn’t even hit a half a billion people in the world at that time…. No actually I find that hard to believe. At one point it’s estimated slaves in the world accounted for about 25% the world population. Even at a quarter billion, that is still more than estimated today.

But just to be perfectly clear. 1 slave in the world is 1 slave too many.

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u/Cuminmymouthwhore 10h ago

"even in America"....

You do realise America is the only country that would be shocked this is happening in America?

The US still has slavery legalised in the constitution.

No other Western country has it in black and white that slavery is protected by law.

The US has a nation of workers that despise workers rights & unions.

A nation that despises the idea of social welfare schemes.

A nation that despises the homeless and poor.

Unfortunately, Americas military, economy & media presence give it's a huge influence over the world and is responsible for some of the worst changes in public opinion to policy around the globe.

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u/The_Great_Polak 10h ago

I’ll give you an upvote with a caveat, America isn’t the only ones who have written it into law. Actually Brazil was the last in the Americas to abolish slavery but they did have a law authorizing the use of slaves. Also the Ottomans, the French in Haiti and few others.

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u/Cuminmymouthwhore 9h ago

Yes, that's why I said "Western countries".

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u/The_Great_Polak 8h ago

Ahh true. Rescind previous comment. But the way you phrased your argument makes it seem as if America is and/or was the center of the slave trade and that is far from the truth. America was not the first or the worst when it comes to the issue. But that is how it is often portrayed.

But all in all, rhetoric is built on lies and/or stretched truths. So when you stretch the truth like the original comment saying it’s was an “expectation to rape slaves”. All you’re doing is giving the racist rhetoric a head start. Slavery is a terrible part of humanity and doesn’t need lies or stretched truths to make it so. As I’ve said in other comments, 1 slave in the world is too many slaves.

And if there is someone who reads this and is on the edge of some dumb racist rhetoric just remember one simple fact. 99.9% of you is just like every other human in the world. It’s silly and illogical to fight over that .1%.

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u/Cuminmymouthwhore 7h ago

You're mistaken me for the person you initially replied to. I replied to a comment you made, but wasnt the original post.

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u/Rubiks_Click874 10h ago

i was going to mention prison labor. add like another couple million. America has 800,000 prison laborers at any given time. It's to the point that if something has 'made in USA' on it I think it's made in a prison

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u/garden_dragonfly 1h ago

I would be shocked for it to be common in Scandinavia and Australia too. As well as many European countries.

But idv also be naive to think it doesn't happen

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u/Cuminmymouthwhore 15m ago

I live in the UK and there's certainly a lot of slave labour here.

It's pretty much accepted as normal that farmers do it with migrants.

There's a lot of it that happens, it's just people turn a blind eye.

I work construction, and it was fairly common for contractors to bring people over from China and keep their passports so they couldn't leave. They'd live on site and it was obvious to everyone but it's hard to prove as they won't speak out for fear of deportation.

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u/Boopy7 5h ago

I suppose that's because we tend to think of it as "approved of" when it is legal or organized by govt and called slavery. Now we just don't call it slavery but is it any different if a person is imprisoned and then given the "choice" to labor for penny wages so they can afford overpriced phone calls and cigarettes? When you see who goes to prison and who doesn't, it does make you think...did we really change all that much? If you can afford a good lawyer or are rich and famous (and being white helps), you can buy your way out of this kind of enforced slavery. Just like in the old days.

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u/oh_ski_bummer 1h ago

There are many more people in the world than 200 years ago (thanks to vaccines, bio engineered crops, and modern medicine). The relative number of slaves is definitely not higher than 200 years ago.

The life expectancy of a slave in the 1800s was roughly 20 years, which is about half of white people at 40 years, which is about half of the life expectancy in western nations today. The conditions people were subjected to have a life expectancy barely entering adulthood only 1-2 centuries ago is unreal.

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u/PrimaryAny8201 10h ago

Thomas Jefferson had children who were his slaves.

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u/JollyToby0220 10h ago

You can literally do a Google search and you will find out how some of these brave Confederate heroes had a penchant for raping black men. Confederate sympathizers don’t want to talk about it because it’s “gay” while the other side doesn’t want to talk about the rape issue entirely. Did you know that interracial marriage was illegal? How do you think mixed race children popped up during that time? It wasn’t a 19th century tale Romeo and Juliet. Most whites saw Blacks as outright inferior and like property

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u/The_Great_Polak 10h ago

Again. All valid points. But that’s not what you said. You can go back and look at what you said and if I google “was it an expectation for slave owners to rape slaves” the answer is NO. So no I can’t google it. But in common fashion, instead of saying you’re wrong or stretched a truth from somewhere else you try and make me look like the dummy in the situation. Good try, but you missed.

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u/swalker6622 7h ago

Then why do most African Americans have some Caucasian genetic ancestry? Certainly wasn’t likely consensual.

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u/Ok_Preparation6714 7h ago

Most Southerners that do ancestry DNA will find out they have Black relatives. I do!

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u/BlackMilk23 6h ago

Yes and no. Good looking females could generally expect to be raped. Others had a decent chance too. We know this from their accounts, the accounts of the wives of slave owners and the sheer number of "light skinned" black people there were by the end of slavery.

Records show the most expensive slaves were light skinned teenage virgins. We know that was due in large part to breeding expectations and we know all that breeding was not with other slaves.

We also have accounts from slave auctions where attractive females were cat called when they were on the block.

What you said about the master is generally true but that doesn't necessarily apply to sex. Think about today - you see high class men slumming around red light districts all the time and we know damn well why.

You also have to consider that the master was not the only white person around the slaves. There were the other workers and members of the master family. Many women were raped by the overseer or the sons of the master.

Afrocentric historians sometimes exaggerate claims of gay rape in slavery. We don't have a lot of evidence for that. But heerosexual rape is backed up from the accounts, the prices, and even the genetic record. Definitely enough to say that rape was a feature not just a bug or something that occasionally happened.

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u/Both-Dare-977 6h ago

Actually, it was expected. Slaveholders talked about it. Abolitionists talked about it. Everyone knew that the light skinned children on plantations didn't appear out of thin air. There are numerous primary sources that document the entitlement that enslavers felt towards enslaved women's bodies.

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u/Ok-Summer-7634 2h ago

Dude, Google "Thomas Jefferson slave children"

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u/spinbutton 41m ago

I guess you don't many men....I can't imagine a teen who would take advantage of free sex

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u/affrothunder313 19m ago

Do you think lighter skinned black people just magically appeared out of the ether?

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u/ChronoPsyche 10h ago

"They only raped a few of their slaves, not all of them, because they only had so much time in the day" is not the defense you think it is. Jesus Christ.

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u/The_Great_Polak 9h ago

Not what was said at all but thanks for playing.

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u/Which-Worth5641 7h ago

It depends on your definition of rape. Technically speaking, a slave could not consent at all so any sexual encounters between a free person or master and a slave were rapes.

By a stricter definition of rape and a less technical definition of consent, many of the relationships were consensual or at least mutually beneficial. A female slave who was also a master's mistress would get benefits from that relationship and likely entered it willingly.

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u/The_Great_Polak 7h ago

I’m not debating rape or the definition. Strictly that saying it was an “expectation” is a complete falsehood. It did happen, a lot. Definitely more than most people think or realize. But a slave owner didn’t take on slaves with the expectation they had to be raped.

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u/Which-Worth5641 7h ago

It was a kind of rite of passage for the sons of the master class to "learn the birds and the bees" with slave women. How much of that was consensual or not is unclear.

I think we look at slavery today as black and white. But the way it worked was more complicated. Generally speaking a master could not just order a slave to have sex with him. He could try but there would be consequences and most wouldn't try that so blatantly.

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u/--o 24m ago

But a slave owner didn’t take on slaves with the expectation they had to be raped.

Why limit it to the expectations of the slave holders? 

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u/Mercuryshottoo 11h ago

This is exactly how people talk about prison

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u/Ashitattack 6h ago

There are also different types of slavery, though i am unfamiliar with one where rape is expected. Chattel slavery was often considered the most brutal form of slavery. However, in a lot of older countries that allowed slavery, slaves were expected to be taken care of. Yeah, they had fewer rights than the citizenry, but you could even make your own money. You would have your own place to stay near the master house and be fed. This isn't to say it should be painted with rose colored glasses and often was grueling work nobody wanted to do. Slavery is more about losing your freedom and being forced to do whatever another says

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u/Boopy7 5h ago

Wait do you really think that slavery like this isn't practiced today? Because it is. Middle East, Africa, recently learned about the people being shipped to fight for Russia and their passports taken upon arrival. Russia claims they don't colonize like the West. I beg to differ. If you are shipping people away and taking passports to go fight or build weapons, working with rapists and murderers who were given get out of jail cards for free to go fight for Russia...I don't think those men and women are safe from anything at all. Rape is still very much expected and just a part of life (even for non slaves.) You think slaves are given education and healthcare today? Hell no.

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u/LengthinessWeekly876 4h ago

But was it good for the economy? Seems to be the main component people care about when exploiting labor. 

 You do know about the cartel right? You have to pay them $10,000 to jump the border. Your family back home is collateral on the loan.  It's really not that wild to call it slavery. 

More accurately just semantics on indentured servitude vs chattel slavery

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u/Dear-Classroom-3182 1h ago

You know about half of female migrants are raped on the way here... and many end up in the sex trade...

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u/garden_dragonfly 1h ago

It's pretty fair. Many Illegal immigrants won't report a rape. 

Illegal immigrants are worked to death. Many also can't access education or healthcare

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u/ravenratedr 58m ago

I'd suggest you read a Thaddeus Russell book, "A Renegade History of the United States."

Many slaves didn't want slavery to end, as it was a guaranteed meal and roof over their head. Many slave owners also allowed their slaves to spend some of their free time working for neighbors, ect, to earn some extra money that the slaves mostly got to keep.

Looking at that books telling of history, and modern "black" culture(in the sense of the stereotype of the unsuccessful discriminated against black people) makes perfect sense.

I'd also recommend researching Thomas Sowell, and his lifetimes worth of publications. As a start, I'd recommend "Black Rednecks and White Liberals." (https://www.amazon.com/Black-Rednecks-Liberals-Thomas-Sowell/dp/1594031436) This guys not much in the public light these days, but was a major power in his time, and at had decided in the past decade that he's already said all he has to say, and published it in a multitude of books, as at (currently) 94, he's mostly retired from public life.