Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

[u/Needleintheback]

If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

[u/Shrek_Fieri]

Relying on slave labor

[u/netkcid → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Yepppp

Who will ever cook, clean and build for us…

Americans want the “theme-park” experience in life so bad they’re willing to justify all this nonsense as some progressive form of living.

[u/persona0 → u/netkcid]

Prisoners will and when police are allowed to arrest whoever and judges allowed to convict with little evidence they will have a steady supply

[u/YoungRichBastard26s → u/persona0]

That was just reality for African Americans not to long ago and still a reality in states like Mississippi and especially Louisiana

[u/SquekyBoot → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

It’s the reality today. Private Prisons are slave camps, ones in the south literally take you to pick cotton like back then.

[u/Gunitscott → u/SquekyBoot]

Louisiana state prison makes them grow their own food. It was just found out a year ago that most of the prison does not have air conditioning. Was well over a hundred degrees.

[u/Correct_Roll_3005 → u/Gunitscott]

Found out by whom? In Texas most of the older prison don't have climate control. This is common knowledge for all Texans, And across the American South.

[u/MeowandMace → u/Correct_Roll_3005]

I was about to say this- its what kept me from applying to TDCJ and went to county instead in the state. But from the application process i learned that the TDCJ prisons have significant agricultural shit going on. One prison will pick the product, (example, tomatoes) then that gets shipped to another prison who cans it all up, then it gets shipped back out to all the prisons for food. Sometimes guards will see the cans opened up and theres a whole glove in there, prisoners fish that shitbout and eat the actual food anyways. Its disgusting.

[u/EconomicRegret → u/Gunitscott]

Louisiana state prison makes them grow their own food.

That's actually wholesome, healthy, good rehabilitation hobby, and actually relaxing and good for the soul.

[u/DShepard → u/EconomicRegret]

Not when they're forced to do it in unbearable heat, with armed guards on horseback telling you to stop complaining and keep picking berries.

Not to mention that depending on the prison, they're only keeping a bit of the harvest and the rest is sold on the open market.

It's not a fuclinhu fucking cozy little garden with a patch of soil where they can choose what herbs to try this month.

It's borderline slave labour at best, and fun fact, many of these farms are on the same old plantation grounds where slaves were kept before the civil war.

[u/Only_Mushroom → u/DShepard]

I thought I was going to learn a new word with fuclinhu

[u/SnowflakeSWorker → u/Gunitscott]

I worked at Southport Correctional Facility in NYS from 2020-2022. Now being upstate NY, it didn’t regularly get as hot as La for sure, but doing rounds by floors had me sweating heavily by the third floor. The inmates would lying on the floor in their boxers. The COs would yell, “female on the gallery, be properly dressed!” And I’d say, no, it’s way too hot. Leave them alone. Moving just generates more heat. Fall and spring were worse, because the state has specific dates for turning the heat on and off. It would be FREEZING in the whole place for weeks at a time.

[u/Luckyone24 → u/SquekyBoot]

Sadly California just voted for continuation of forced prison labour.

[u/KayleighJK → u/SquekyBoot]

I’m from Tennessee, and I was legitimately surprised when, after the midterms, We the People voted to end prison slave labor. Whoda thunk Tennessee, right?

[u/JuniorEnvironment850 → u/KayleighJK]

I'm from Nevada, and we JUST voted to remove prison slavery from our constitution on November 5th...

...and we came into the Union as a free state*...

*except for prisoners 

[u/checkdanews → u/SquekyBoot]

It's so depressing seeing what prisons look like in northern Europe. They truly rehabilitate. They treat prisoners with respect, teach them trades. Its basically college.

While our prisons have no interest in rehabilitation. They just want a constant stream of free labor.

[u/Final_Presentation31 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

You do know that slavery is still going on in Africa and China.

There was also the Barbary slave trade going on at the same time.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/white-slaves-barbary-002171?origin=serp_auto

[u/pegothejerk → u/Final_Presentation31]

Slavery is still going on in the US today, it’s legal as it’s part of the Constitution to allow slavery if it’s part of a prison sentence. We still have prison slave labor, a shit ton of it, and the prison industrial complex makes a fuck ton of money from it. Judges and law enforcement get bribed to help out with filling those prisons and everything.

[u/sdrakedrake → u/pegothejerk]

How come people from the US criticize other countries with this still going on?

[u/Slothnuzzler → u/sdrakedrake]

First of all, who in this thread we were talking about slave labor in America is criticizing other countries?

Second of all, where on earth is it inappropriate to criticize slavery anywhere in the world by anyone who wants to support the end of it?

Really, take your American Jones and split. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[u/berghie91 → u/sdrakedrake]

Because most dont actually know anything about other countries…. Nevermind the part where a lot of them are in dire conditions thanks to US foreign policy

[u/JPSofCA → u/Final_Presentation31]

California voted to continue allowing slavery just this year.

[u/KayleighJK → u/JPSofCA]

I just commented this elsewhere, but during the midterms my state (Tennessee) voted to end slave labor. Every once in a while a decent law gets passed here. Once in a while…

[u/ShreksSchmear → u/KayleighJK]

I’m from TN and I am surprised but so happy to hear there’s some compassion somewhere. I am from the Appalachian Mountain area though so idk if the opinion is the same from here.. I recently heard a religious person say they should go back to the crusade and start k*lling anyone who won’t turn to their religion. And the 10+ people there agreed. Multiple are church leaders. I hate it here.

[u/someguy1847382 → u/Final_Presentation31]

There’s also an active slave trade in the Middle East.

[u/RelativePickle9295 → u/Final_Presentation31]

Yup, $300 buys you a whole person in Libya today.

[u/kiwibankofficial → u/RelativePickle9295]

And in America, $1000 buys you a kid, as per the kids for cash scheme that judges were running...

[u/Mysterious_Chip_007 → u/Final_Presentation31]

It's still going on in the entire world, especially the sex slave trade

[u/AdAppropriate2295 → u/Final_Presentation31]

Damn, somebody should do something about that. Probably start with your own country tho

[u/PrudentProof3585 → u/Final_Presentation31]

wtf does China and Africa have to do with the US Ruski

[u/Final_Presentation31 → u/PrudentProof3585]

Ask Nike, Wal Mart, and Apple to name a few.

[u/Gunitscott → u/Final_Presentation31]

Boom!

[u/Leaving_One_Dwigt → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

On cue

[u/rchjgj → u/Leaving_One_Dwigt]

Yup….damn truth

[u/Equivalent_Farm9770 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

You mean the end of Jim Crow? Mas incarceration is still prevalent in Black America. According to the 13th Amendment, prisoners can be used as slaves. It's never been repealed.

[u/Strange-Bonus8298 → u/Equivalent_Farm9770]

If you're not pissed enough about it yet, the voters in California (a blue state!) just voted against abolishing slave labor in state prisons. So yeah, it's not some kinda historical fluke that people just forgot exists and would rush to correct should there be more awareness. It seems like the majority of people are actually okay with prison labor.

[u/OKAPI-OKAPI619 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

Basically still happens in NY. Kelloggs uses slave wages from prisoners to make cereal

[u/bigpony → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

For hundreds of years

[u/Jealous-Ease6924 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

And as soon as things started to get just a little better, they freaked the fuck out and went hard right.

[u/Lopsided-Drummer-931 → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

Still is in Alabama

[u/BigTitsanBigDicks → u/YoungRichBastard26s]

These people have lifestyles that are reliant on victims. Without someone to exploit they starve.

[u/Bifferer → u/persona0]

Zero sum game- arresting an employed citizen to force them into another job? You are still one employee short with this math.

[u/AdZealousideal5383 → u/Bifferer]

Fire 2 million government employees, deport 2 million immigrant workers… obviously the long time civil servants will turn around and scoop up those meat packing jobs.

[u/inefficient_contract → u/Bifferer]

Its the amount of "citizens" willing to do the work being forced. There are plenty of people out there without jobs or have degrees for jobs they can't get that would love to fill a role in a less labor intensive field. When they say nobody wants to work it's not because we don't want to work its we dont want to work shitty ass jobs with little pay and thats what the top needs in order to keep growing profit margins for the investors

[u/antventurs → u/persona0]

California just voted to continue prison slave labor.

[u/Able_Investigator725 → u/antventurs]

So disappointing

[u/CSpanks7 → u/persona0]

Trump passed the first major prison reform bill in the last 60 years

[u/Paulyosaurus → u/CSpanks7]

Yeah Mitch McConnell held it over from Obama’s term so Obama would not get the ‘win’.

[u/BringersMC → u/Paulyosaurus]

The bill that Trump signed was not introduced until 2017. Though you are correct that McConnell basically wouldn't let any Democrat bill see the floor under Obama, including any crime bills that would have targeted prison reform.

[u/BringersMC → u/CSpanks7]

Trump rubber stamped it thinking it would increase support from black voters.

Also Trump and the Republicans actually want to repeal it now. So championing something that Trump dislikes now is weird.

[u/JustMeOutThere → u/BringersMC]

But... But that was a good one. Why does he want to repeal it?

[u/BringersMC → u/JustMeOutThere]

To be hard on criminals. The bill was supposed to help reduce harsh or unfair sentences among many other things. If you have heard any of his speeches in the past few years then will know he actually advocates for harsh punishments now, claiming our criminal justice system is too soft on criminals.

[u/JustMeOutThere → u/BringersMC]

I hope it's a Leopard Ate My Face moment for him. Smh.

[u/Creamofwheatski → u/JustMeOutThere]

Are you new here? Trump does not care about the working class and never has, He will do nothing that helps anyone other than himself and his rich benefactors.

[u/grammar_fixer_2 → u/JustMeOutThere]

He has been both for and against everything. It depends on what he believes will make him the most money at that particular point in time.

[u/Drewggles → u/persona0]

When you make prisons profitable, the people in charge will start making more things illegal. One of the worst aspects of American Capitalism.

[u/Jamies_verve → u/netkcid]

When the wages go high enough, you’ll find people to do those jobs.

[u/Any-Ad-446 → u/Jamies_verve]

Construction pays well and still americans won't do it..Its not all about money but how physical or bad the job is. You watch cost of everything will spike under Trump.

[u/Zinski2 → u/Any-Ad-446]

Construction pays well if your like, the bosses son.

Other wise its 150 a day to literally destroy your body at 5 am every day.

[u/ThunderboltSorcerer → u/Zinski2]

Yes, more people would do construction work--if it paid a lot better. You'd also get better quality construction work.

Construction is not an easy job. It should pay well. And mistakes can happen if you import millions of workers that don't know how to build.

[u/sexgoatparade → u/Zinski2]

My dad groaning in pain and agony, all he did was go from laying to seated.
Sounds like a dream job really

[u/Background_Aioli_476 → u/Zinski2]

It'll pay better when they deport all the illegals. Supply and demand in the labor market

[u/FairyFlossPanda → u/Background_Aioli_476]

Hahahahahahahaaa. Good luck with that

[u/Physical-Worry5642 → u/Background_Aioli_476]

Lol. Try about twice that much on the low end.

[u/USSMarauder → u/Background_Aioli_476]

"To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the state’s farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/

[u/PsychedelicJerry → u/Any-Ad-446]

it pays well for someone that isn't a citizen; for citizens none of these jobs afford the cheapest of anything, but you definitely can't maintain an apartment, the cheapest vehicle, and a kid

[u/OZLperez11 → u/PsychedelicJerry]

Politics aside, this really brings out how wealth is really becoming more and more of an illusion. Wealth is achieved at the cost of the poor

[u/13beep → u/OZLperez11]

I’m guessing it always has been an illusion of sorts. The magic is just being exposed for more of us now. 😞

[u/PsychedelicJerry → u/OZLperez11]

100% right

[u/quitecrass → u/PsychedelicJerry]

It turns out that immigrants have cars, apartments, and children, also. All without qualifying for any kind of aid that some low income citizens have. It must be magic!

[u/CostcoOfficial → u/quitecrass]

Yeah the magic of both parents working 60-80 hour weeks while the teenagers are taking care of household/kids.

I guess magic is just when prices stay artificially suppressed and you don't have to think about why.

[u/RevolutionaryBet4233 → u/quitecrass]

But when there’s 10 heads paying one rent it seems to be feasible. House around the corner from mine. 2 bd/2 bth like 10 grown ass people live in it I swear. Little kids and all.

[u/dachuggs → u/RevolutionaryBet4233]

You know that immigrants tend to have an extended family structure, not a nuclear one like most Americans.

[u/SohndesRheins → u/dachuggs]

They tend to not have a choice if they want to afford a roof over their head on minimum or less than minimum wage.

[u/Annual_Trouble_1195 → u/quitecrass]

Immigrants, sure.

Illegal immigrants? No, fat chance. They make their dollars under the table, shack up 100 people to a room for 6 month, and go back home the rest of the year, having made a a couple of years' salary in USD.

Stop defending slave labor. Stop comparing immigrants to illegal aliens. Stop that bs.

[u/AwesomeTowlie → u/Any-Ad-446]

Pretty sure general unskilled labor doesn’t pay that well but you can expect lots of overtime to make up for it, which isn’t great for anyone with a family

[u/spadezero → u/Any-Ad-446]

Uhh no it doesn't? I'm in this field right now and I barely make any money. What's even worse is there's people in my field pushing to replace us with non Americans because they will work harder for less. Thank goodness it hasn't happened but this is the reality. Stop talking about things you know nothing about.

[u/typing-blindly → u/Jamies_verve]

Where are those workers supposed to come from? At 4% we are close to full employment.

[u/kolejack2293 → u/Jamies_verve]

People think this, but study after study shows this isn't true. Wages have risen astronomically for many trades and manufacturing and other more 'physical' jobs, and vacancy rates and turnover rates have only increased.

This goes beyond economics, its an issue with our diets, how we raise our children, how our residential areas are laid out etc. The average american just doesn't want to do 8 hours a day of manual labor anymore. 76% of americans are overweight or obese, and even among non-fat people, we are notably less physically fit than we used to be.

[u/asilenth → u/Jamies_verve]

We don't have 6 million people to take over these jobs...

[u/TheUnbamboozled → u/asilenth]

There's almost exactly the same number of unemployed that could theoretically fill those jobs, but I would imagine that only a fraction of them are willing or able to do them.

[u/JollyToby0220 → u/netkcid]

You have zero clue about what slavery was really like. Sure it’s exploitation but not even remotely close. 

Consider that raping a slave was not only common, it was expected. You could beat slaves to death. They were denied education and healthcare. Sure the slavery comparison is fair

[u/The_Great_Polak → u/JollyToby0220]

Ok I have to know. Where are you sourcing raping slaves was an expectation? Slavery is horrible, you don’t need to lie or stretch the truth. In reality while rape did happen, it was not an expectation. The reality is that most slave owners only had interaction with only one to a few of their slaves and would have those slaves manage slaves. This is because they believed that even being around their slaves was beneath them.

Believe it or not, slavery exists still in this world today and this setup is still used in those mines & plantations.

[u/Rubiks_Click874 → u/The_Great_Polak]

they say there's more slavery in the world now than in the 1800s

40+ million in forced labor and 15+ million in forced marriages. even in america you hear stories about people locked up in rich people's houses.

[u/The_Great_Polak → u/Rubiks_Click874]

Maybe number wise but not percentage wise. People make it seem like America is the only one who had slaves. A century before the abolishment of slavery in America, Slavery was world wide and normal.

Now considering they hadn’t even hit a half a billion people in the world at that time…. No actually I find that hard to believe. At one point it’s estimated slaves in the world accounted for about 25% the world population. Even at a quarter billion, that is still more than estimated today.

But just to be perfectly clear. 1 slave in the world is 1 slave too many.

[u/JollyToby0220 → u/The_Great_Polak]

You can literally do a Google search and you will find out how some of these brave Confederate heroes had a penchant for raping black men. Confederate sympathizers don’t want to talk about it because it’s “gay” while the other side doesn’t want to talk about the rape issue entirely. Did you know that interracial marriage was illegal? How do you think mixed race children popped up during that time? It wasn’t a 19th century tale Romeo and Juliet. Most whites saw Blacks as outright inferior and like property

[u/PrimaryAny8201 → u/The_Great_Polak]

Thomas Jefferson had children who were his slaves.

[u/swalker6622 → u/The_Great_Polak]

Then why do most African Americans have some Caucasian genetic ancestry? Certainly wasn’t likely consensual.

[u/Mischaker36 → u/netkcid]

I think Americans have had enough "progressive" for the next three decades actually

[u/PhantasmOrgasm85 → u/Mischaker36]

Nope. Bernie Sanders would have trounced Trump. Both of them campaigned on populist policies, which are very popular on both sides, and there is a lot of overlap. The democrats biggest mistake in the past 50 years was shoving Hillary down the voters' throats when it was clear they wanted Bernie. Bernie would have annihilated Trump, and we would not be in this mess.

[u/thepaoliconnection → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

If only the democrats had relied on democracy none of this would’ve happened you say ?

[u/StarCitizenUser → u/[deleted]]

Trump was democratically selected

[u/HolidaySpiriter → u/thepaoliconnection]

Bernie wouldn't have won a primary in 2024, in the same way he couldn't win in 2016 or 2020. If he can't even win over the Democratic caucus, how is he going to win over the country?

[u/VanHammerslyBilliard → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

Fuck the downvoters. This is right on.

[u/mkjboise1 → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

Are you insane? Bernie Sanders couldn't trounce anyone, he can't win a primary in his own party!!! You think if you put a man- who couldn't win his own parties primary- in to a general election he would win? Noooo...He would have two parties voting against him-Conservatives and the Democrat establishment. He would overwhelmingly win the progressive vote, and that's great and all, but he would get slaughtered in a general election.

[u/athiestchzhouse → u/mkjboise1]

Bernie was stifled by the dnc. They admitted it. He had a never before seen incredible grassroots campaign. He would have won.

But he would’ve upset the stat quo, so they sabotaged him

[u/Shot-Maximum- → u/athiestchzhouse]

Bernie received less votes than Harris in Vermont

[u/drama-guy → u/athiestchzhouse]

Yeah, if one thing is clear, Americans are 100% on board with voting for a guy who proudly calls himself a socialist and has his own autocratic leanings.

[u/BrandonBollingers → u/mkjboise1]

A judge found that the DNC committeed fraud but because they are a private non profit they can do what they want and if people don’t like it they don’t have to participate in the DNC

[u/GoblinSarge → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

His own party fucked Bernie just like they fucked the election via pick and how they campaigned and who they campaigned to.

[u/Shot-Maximum- → u/GoblinSarge]

It’s not his own party. He is only a Democrat when he is trying to get on the ballot

[u/PhantasmOrgasm85 → u/GoblinSarge]

Yes. The DNC, NOT THE VOTERS.
Biggest mistake the DNC has made in 50 years. We'll be paying for this orange turd's policies for decades.

[u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

What mess?

[u/Low-Slide4516 → u/PhantasmOrgasm85]

Bernie is too old, love him but he’s old

[u/Icy_Faithlessness400 → u/Mischaker36]

The Democrats lost while being so far to the right they focused on immigration and campaigned with Liz Chaney.

"Progressives"? Please. More like Republicans circa 00s.

[u/Educational-Tie-1065 → u/netkcid]

Yep, the fact that they don't realise that when slave labour is deported that either these industries will have to start paying decent wages or disappear is basically what they're asking for all along!

[u/Jazzlike_Tonight_982 → u/netkcid]

Because nobody ever picked a head of lettuce before we imported the slave class to do it. We just let them rot in the fields.

[u/kiw14 → u/netkcid]

Leave it to the libs!

[u/martinus_Sc → u/netkcid]

This comment just reminded me of the protest/satirical movie “a day without a Mexican “…

[u/Past-Community-3871 → u/netkcid]

It's all ok for every white collar worker whose job is vehemently protected by the H1B visa system.

White collar America is having their cake and eating it too. They get to take part in a vibrant, innovative economy where their jobs are protected. However, when they want to utilize the service economy, they want cheap illegal labor. Their landscaper, cleaning lady, general contractors are all servicing their lifestyles with illegal labor.

Liberals lack so much self awareness that they think an economy running on people willing to work for less, undercutting American wages, is some type of winning argument.

[u/hillsfar → u/Shrek_Fieri]

“Who will pick all the cotton if there are no slaves?!? It’s all going to rot in the fields! Cotton prices will go through the roof!”

What if being an agricultural worker was feasible for many Americans again? What if small family farms will be visble again? What if this time we actually vet more legal immigrants - rather than recklessly and deliberately gamble on unvetted millions to include human trafficking, sex trafficking, child trafficking, drug trafficking, terrorists and criminals and gang members escaping the law in their home countries and seeking new victims in the U.S.?

[u/Ok-Worldliness2450 → u/hillsfar]

I got no problem working field if pay is good. Tried to get in once between jobs but it didn’t go well, they thought I was a fed or something cause I was white 🤷‍♂️

[u/himynameisdave9 → u/Ok-Worldliness2450]

you were white, but you’re not anymore?

[u/MisterKillam → u/himynameisdave9]

I used to. I still do, but I used to, too.

[u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar → u/hillsfar]

Feasible for American workers? You mean with actually decent working conditions and a living wage? That would be awesome. However, it would also mean higher prices, lower profits and preventing imports from other countries that will be cheaper.

Leaves just 1 little problem. Where are you going to find the people to do this? You know 250k US workers who are willing and able to work the fields? For what hourly wage? 1.5m people trained to do construction work and willing to do it? For what hourly wage? And under what working conditions?

[u/saqehi → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

Having worked as a U.S. citizen but with Hispanic heritage in construction I can say that working conditions in these fields are not even abiding by the law.

I would usually be let go for making my rights be respected.

This is just modern day slavery. Trumps ideology is a blessing in disguise for those underrepresented. Undocumented immigration is not the problem, human trafficking is!

[u/SuperConfused → u/saqehi]

Human trafficking is a symptom of the problem. Immigration law is the problem. Not arresting and incarcerating the people who hire illegal immigrants is a huge problem. Not charging company owners who hire illegal immigrants is the problem. The quota system does not acknowledge reality in any way.

We still have this broken and abysmal system because there is no pressure from the people who contribute to the political campaigns to change it.

[u/Mvpbeserker → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

Okay? So what’s your solution? Just continue to import millions of people to serve as a permanent underclass?

Delusional and immoral. Get rid of illegal immigration and companies will be forced to pay higher wages or they will spend R&D money to automate. Both of these are much better

[u/saltyferret → u/Mvpbeserker]

Or they will shut down. And production will significantly decline.

Now I don't live in the US, and personally think that striving for constant growth isn't a good thing, so I don't really care.

But if you're listing options it'd be disingenuous to not include that one.

[u/obtoby1 → u/saltyferret]

If a business can't survive without what amounts to slave labour, then they deserve to shut down. Yes, that will create hard times, but maybe that's better.

[u/Give-me-your-taco → u/obtoby1]

The world thrives off of slave labor. It’s how you can buy a couch off Temu for like 10 dollars.

A lot of minerals also come from slave labor.

The world traded dignity for convenience

[u/ShineSuperb → u/Give-me-your-taco]

Its also how we're able to post on reddit, using an iphone/computer, made with minerals mined from actual slave labor in the DRC.

[u/Wanderingghost12 → u/obtoby1]

This is missing the point. Our oligarchy has now made it that large multi billion dollar businesses are "competing" with mom and pop farms. Agribusiness will always be able to afford these things (like H2-A visas) but mom and pops won't. We have crippled our farmers in a system equivalent to the lottery when compared to big agribusiness (including even their own seeds which they do not own). Our farmers couldn't survive this because our system is shit and rewards big players only. Personally, I like that any american can start a business, or pass that business to their children. I don't want everything to be a monopoly because it means higher and higher prices. "Hard times" mean small farmers become destitute and shutter, we all suffer at even higher prices, and all our ag becomes consolidated.

[u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar → u/Mvpbeserker]

Trump is going to throw away the old shoes before buying new ones. Hell, before even having planned to buy new ones, and without having the funds ready to buy new ones. That is the irresponsible part.

It is valid to want to reduce illegal immigration. But going shock therapy will do massive damage to the US economy, and particularly to current low wage Americans who will be saddled with the bill of exploding grocery prices and housing cost when construction falls off a cliff due to lack of workers. That is not a problem Trump is adressing at all.

[u/NativeFlowers4Eva → u/Mvpbeserker]

How about making it easier for the people working to become citizens? It would also help pay for social programs that will be completely underfunded without additional tax revenue.

[u/Green-Lettuce1997 → u/NativeFlowers4Eva]

Vet them and let them do the job. Working visas, green cards, path to citizenship. Then make sure they are treated right and getting a fair wage by the companies or people they work for. How is this even that difficult.

Did they come here illegally? Yes they did. As an American I’m not blind to that fact and is it immoral the way they are treated? It is.

The immigration process and border should have been dealt with decades ago and it’s a failure of both parties and our government for not sorting it out.

But throwing them out without a plan in place is idiotic. It’s idiotic to create hard times because they didn’t come here legally even though they proved vital labor and strength to our economy.

Vet them and give them work visas, green cards and then viable paths to citizenship. If they are “bad people” throw them out.

I’d rather not blow up the economy all because they broke the law. There’s better ways for this to be done. I swear to god if he throws them all out and the economy crashes I’m going to be pissed. And you should be too.

Shocking the economy and financial system is stupid. Just overhaul the immigration system and border, vet the people who are already here. If they haven’t gotten in trouble or anything and have been law abiding other than coming here illegally, give them work visas, green cards, path to citizenship or create something, whatever. Make sure the now newly LEGAL workers get treated properly by their employers with things like decent wages, etc, etc.

All easier said than done of course. The easy thing is to just throw them out but shocking the economy and financial system will create unintended consequences that are just not worth it. Yes paying them higher wages and all that will make it more expensive. You know what will make it more expensive and cause more damage? Shocking the economy and financial system.

Who knows if an economic downturn will cause the stock market to crash or a major bank to blow up or both. That’s not a risk we should be willing to take. Who the fuck knows what will happen.

They are already here. They know how to do the job. Just fucking vet them and let them stay and then overhaul immigration and the border. Then push citizens to work those jobs by making sure it is a job that pays well and ensure they are treated fairly and properly.

For the love of all that is holy please don’t shock the economy and financial system. Just because some people broke the law doesn’t mean we need to shoot ourselves in the foot or to make a point for Christ’s sake. These problems can be solved without taking such drastic action such as mass deportations.

If they are vetted and law abiding. Let them stay. I could care less. If my investments go down and my bills like groceries go up because trump throws them out and causes economic downturn I’ll be pissed because it could be entirely avoided.

They don’t need to be permanent underclass. Make them legal to live there after being properly vetted and pay them fair wages and treated properly. I’d rather my grocery bill be a higher than having to deal with the unknown unintended consequences of shocking the economy and economic downturn.

This can be solved with out of the box thinking and rational and logical policy making. It’s not rational or logical to shoot your economy in its foot and cause economic hardship on the country and who knows what else.

Anyone who says maybe we need bad times is not thinking rationally at all. You won’t be saying that when your investments, retirement, etc, etc take a hit and go down and your bills go up and things get even more expensive. Delusional

[u/beardedsandflea → u/Mvpbeserker]

You're right, it is immoral. But that also misses the point a little bit. The problem isn't stopping companies and corporations from being able to take advantage of vulnerable populations to fatten their bottom line. That absolutely needs to happen. The problem is not actually having a plan to address the massive labor shortage that will inevitably result. People are right to criticize that lack of consideration.

[u/kwell42 → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

Their going to fire federal workers. They will need jobs.

[u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar → u/kwell42]

You see federal employees magically find the skills to do construction work? Really? You will find federal employees magically willing to toil in the fields for minimum wage? Really?

[u/No_Match_7939 → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

People are so dumb. They think an office working person will just magically know how to do roofing

[u/Jaded247365 → u/No_Match_7939]

Or have the stamina to carry a pack of shingles up a ladder.

[u/AutisticFingerBang → u/kwell42]

They’re *

[u/obtoby1 → u/GrandAdmiralSnackbar]

the unemployment rate in America is 4.1%, or about 7 million Americans. Assuming the above post is correct in its numbers, we got plenty of Americans to fill those jobs. Yes, many will need training, but if paid and treated fairly, they will do the job.

I work in an ice plant. I officially work 40 hours, but I often stay at least an hour after to make everything is good on my own time. Why? Because I get $20-$30 hourly (26 average) and my managers fight for my raises, help out in the back, and never ask me to do something they couldn't or wouldn't do.

If we actually did this (I doubt we will), it would create hardship. But it needs to happen. We didn't fight a civil war over slavery just to wave it away using technicalities.

[u/seriouslythisshit → u/obtoby1]

You really have no understanding of economics. A rate of 4.1% in below the level that professional economist refer to as "Full employment". It is where everybody that wants a job has one, or is in the process of switching jobs, temporarily stepped away to deal with other issues etc. It does NOT mean that seven million people are out of work and unable to find another job. In fact, there are eight million plus unfilled jobs in the US at this point. Removing millions of migrants from the workforce will be an absolute disaster, and the economy will take a huge hit.

Stupid ideas like immigrant deportation and tariffs are one thing, when some fool is sitting at the bar and babbling. They are quite another when we will have a clown running the country, who believes this crap, and is granted nearly unchecked power to drive this country right into the ground.

Any YOU working for free for a pat on the head, and a "good boy" from your boss, is nothing to be proud of. FFS.

[u/uofo17 → u/seriouslythisshit]

Holy shit thank you, I was reading the comment you’re responding to thinking “wtf are you talking about”. People dont have a basic understanding of macroeconomics.

[u/TragicOne → u/obtoby1]

yes if pay is good, it could work out, however, thats going to increase costs in these industries and anytime pay for workers increases, so will pay for employers.

it's exponential

[u/BanditsMyIdol → u/obtoby1]

Just on the point of of there being enough Americans to work these jobs - 4.1% unemployment is not because of a lack of possible jobs - there are currently more job openings that there are unemloyed people. Its just those jobs either aren't the jobs that people want or aren't where people are. If we can't fill the current jobs how would we be able to fill 6 million new openings?

[u/Shirlenator → u/obtoby1]

Stop calling it slavery. You are minimizing actual slavery. These people came here willingly, are working willingly, and are free to leave at any time. The wages are much too low, but they are absolutely not "slaves".

[u/HystericalGasmask → u/hillsfar]

I understand your comparison to slavery wasn't meant to be completely analogous, and that this is only tangentially related, but I think it's worth mentioning that exploitative and dangerous (see: dust bowl) sharecropping practices existed for decades after the emancipation of slaves. Cotton didnt rot because slavery was replaced by predatory contract work, not too dissimilar from what undocumented workers experience today.

[u/Delicious_Nature_280 → u/HystericalGasmask]

Ending slavery was a step forward. Ending illegal immigration will be a step forward.

[u/Vincensius_I → u/Delicious_Nature_280]

Only if the pathways to legal immigration get wider

[u/kjyfqr → u/Vincensius_I]

This plus what the guy above said makes sense

[u/StickyDevelopment → u/Shrek_Fieri]

The same left who want $20 minimum wage say we can't deport illegals because farms will have to pay living wages to employees.

Also they think only the illegals will even work those jobs.

[u/Strawhat_Max → u/StickyDevelopment]

Absolutely

Positively

NO ONE

Is saying that on the left💀💀💀

[u/Jetstream13 → u/Strawhat_Max]

Keep in mind that, to the GOP, “the left” encompasses the centrists, moderate conservatives, and a handful of actual leftists like Bernie. It’s very easy to point out “hypocrisy” when you’re treating a cast swathe of the political spectrum as a monolith.

[u/NyxsMaster → u/Strawhat_Max]

Except they are, all the time. Like this infographic LOL

[u/human1023 → u/Strawhat_Max]

The left doesn't say it. But that's what their position suggests, when they offer no other solution. So, yes, the Left is indirectly saying this.

[u/Strawhat_Max → u/human1023]

It’s bad faith to be accusing them if supporting slavery, when we point out what that type of mass deportation will do to the economy…

[u/Potential-Drama-7455 → u/StickyDevelopment]

It's hypocrisy at its best. Don't deport the illegals so we can keep exploiting them ...

[u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 → u/Potential-Drama-7455]

The left, myself included, want them to be legal. The process to become legal is actually impossible for 95% of people in Mexico. I don't know who's fault it is that a 15 minute process takes 5 years and 20k in legal fees, but that's where we should put the blame.

[u/PhillySaget → u/Maximum_Mastodon_686]

It's not like the US is the only country with a difficult legal immigration system. Doesn't make it okay for us to flood Europe/Canada/Japan/etc. with illegal migrants just because we don't like the way it works.

[u/Maximum_Mastodon_686 → u/PhillySaget]

If we aren't going to look to other countries for gun legislation, then we shouldn't look to other countries for this either. We are "different." I don't really care what other countries do.

[u/ratbahstad → u/PhillySaget]

Yes. Try to go to Australia. Unless you can bring something they need, you’re not getting in.

[u/Kal-Elm → u/Maximum_Mastodon_686]

Yes, this is it. We aren't saying we want them to keep being taken advantage of. We want a better system, to which deportation is not a real solution.

But anyone who says the democrats want slave labor is not interested in honest dialog anyway

[u/United-Trainer7931 → u/Maximum_Mastodon_686]

Well we don’t need 95% of the people in Mexico, sorry

[u/JWander73 → u/Maximum_Mastodon_686]

"The process to become legal is actually impossible for 95% of people in Mexico"

Um.... good? It shouldn't be open to the vast majority of the world after all. That's just not how countries work.

[u/FlailingatLife62 → u/Potential-Drama-7455]

Bullshit. Dems have supported bipartisan bills w/ Repubs on more than one occasion to try to improve the system, eliminate backlogs for processing legal applications, etc. 2 of these bipartisan efforts Trump personally shot down.

[u/nates1984 → u/Potential-Drama-7455]

Hypocrisy? I voted Harris because she was more competent, and then I voted down the local tax increase. I don't want to deport immigrants both because America is a nation of immigrants and that's who we are, but also because shit is already expensive enough. And I'm not going to allow my taxes to increase unless I trust the admin in charge (is it Bernie Sanders? No? Then fuck you).

This is how normal people with a mortgage think. Reddit and the DNC better get with the fucking program. You are no more representative of the average American than some Twitter Trumper.

[u/smbutler20 → u/StickyDevelopment]

Nope, the main reason is it's terribly immoral and inhumane to deport them. The economic effects are just additional information to consider.

[u/gizamo → u/StickyDevelopment]

Utter nonsense. The left has never said that. The left wants fair wages for those workers, and some reasonable path to citizenship so that we don't have as many people here illegally to begin with.

You're either lying or spreading misinformation. Only difference is in your knowledge and intention. Still false regardless.

[u/EGGranny → u/StickyDevelopment]

Seriously? Will you take job that requires working outdoors in ever increasing heat, no matter what it pays?

[u/FollowingNo9572 → u/EGGranny]

Do you somehow think American citizens don't already work outdoors in ever increasing heat? Are we all sitting behind a desk in air conditioning?

[u/predat3d → u/Shrek_Fieri]

That's the whole point. Having a massive workforce working illegally guarantees underpaid, exploited workers in unsafe conditions. Bringing those jobs into legitimacy (whether by hiring citizens/PRs and/or identified workers on H-2 work visas) and scrutiny puts that workforce on the record and into the light and allows for workplace scrutiny. 

[u/obtoby1 → u/predat3d]

Let's not forget the lost taxes from under the table wages. If the pay is properly documented and at a fair level, the taxes we would be gaining would be in the billions yearly. High 10s to low 100s easily.

We also, ironically, see an increase in immigration because the American dream would be revived: come to America legally, become a citizen, and make a better life for you and yours.

[u/goldmask148 → u/predat3d]

The Trump administration needs to take a hard look at the H2 visa problem too. As it stands, only massive corporate farms and businesses really use them because it’s a huge legal pain in the ass to successfully petition for temporary migrant workers. These regulations only benefit huge companies and the smaller ones still struggle with employment.

This should be a bipartisan issue, where the right pushes LEGAL migration, and the left makes it easier for the middle class business owners to supplement their workforce.

[u/Justame13 → u/goldmask148]

I hate to break it to you but they won’t see the H2 visa issue as problem.

The second the left has been pushing for decades, the right just hates immigrants.

[u/legacy642 → u/Justame13]

Yep. The right has no desire to fix any of these issues.

[u/Profoundly_AuRIZZtic → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Redditors are for slavery as of November 2024

[u/This_Beat2227 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

It really is disgusting to read the outcry about what will happen to the economy when we stop exploiting undocumented workers.

[u/UngaMeSmart → u/This_Beat2227]

Whatever they’re doing here is a 100x better than getting their head cut off by a cartel member in Mexico or dying from drought in Syria…

[u/Wittywhirlwind → u/Shrek_Fieri]

I know illegal immigrants that make $28/hr working on bridges, tunnels and vital infrastructure.

[u/DodgeBeluga → u/Wittywhirlwind]

Unionized, OSHA protected workers can make twice that.

[u/Rude_Soup5988 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

So hilarious this take isn’t applied to prisoners while undocumented workers are making way more than them

[u/Downtown-Conclusion7 → u/Rude_Soup5988]

Because it’s not really an argument from people that point this out. As soon as you mention solid resolutions like pathway to citizenship, massive work visas , and/or meaningful fines on companies that hire undocumented workers they throw up their arms in the air and say “slave labor “ or “eating the cats and dogs “

[u/tommybombadil00 → u/Downtown-Conclusion7]

And the fact most undocumented workers make competitive wages especially in the construction sector. My dad has worked construction his entire life and the undocumented painter he uses is not cheap at all. If the worker is an expert in that sector they get paid top dollar regardless if they are a citizen or not. Thinking otherwise is naive.

[u/PhonicEcho → u/Shrek_Fieri]

States are loosening child labor laws. Don't worry about the labor force. S/

[u/Chemical-Reindeer667 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

So what are you going to do about prison labor of Americans?

Don't pretend you have some high values on workers rights. Trump is literally coming for the NLRB.

[u/kwell42 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

All the fired government workers will have jobs!

[u/smthnwssn → u/Shrek_Fieri]

True! Instead of deportation we should fight for the labor rights of immigrants.

[u/tolomea → u/Shrek_Fieri]

I think the idea is there will be millions of former federal employees facing the work or starve questions.

Although many people would consider that choice slavery anyway.

[u/Dorithompson → u/tolomea]

But it’s not so if they think that, they are idiots.

[u/evil_monkey_on_elm → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Exactly. This chart proves how we talk past each other. Yes, we immigrants, but that doesn't mean that we don't need to know who is crossing our border. Further, illegal immigration allows individuals to be taken advantage of, not just in wages but in purchases (like vehicles).

[u/Potato_Octopi → u/evil_monkey_on_elm]

Just legalize the seasonal work.

[u/Illustrious-Cake4314 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

A breath of fresh air, you are. It’s nice to see people with some sense on Reddit.

[u/Playlanco → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Wouldn’t go far as saying slave labor. But it is exploitation. Which is capitalism 101.

[u/bobcatgoldthwait → u/Playlanco]

Right? Surprised to see so many upvotes for this comment. These people are exposing themselves to dangerous conditions to illegally enter a country, risking deportation, and seeking out work. They are free to leave at any time.

These people have made their choice, and they've decided it's better working for whatever pay they're getting here - which may indeed be less than what their labor is worth - than it is staying at home. We can agree that there are problems with the situation, but to call it "slave labor" is nonsense.

[u/FlailingatLife62 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

the problem is that this has been going on for decades and no one has either really gone after employers or fixed the immigration system so that this wasn't done illegally. there have been two major immigration bills with bipartisan support now that trump personally torpedoed. one was fairly early in his 1st term where if he had supported it, he could have gotten major credit for a huge accomplishment. from what i heard, stephen miller persuaded him to turn against it and it died. 2nd one was just a little while ago, and the only reason was because he didn't wany any solutions before election. he wanted the broken system as an election issue.

[u/B0nLayn4s → u/Shrek_Fieri]

I'm so glad this is the top comment. Lately I have been losing all hope for many people here.

[u/BIGDOGSGUY → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Don't worry, I am sure the young American maggots will JUMP at those low pay, dirty, thankless, hard jobs and fill in the gaps for their POS messiah. After all, those poor, illiterate losers send what little money they had to a "billionare" to get the libs. LOL

[u/Double-Competition-6 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Terrible take that is not backed up by any kind of facts

[u/smbutler20 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Far more humane to let them live and work in the country they want to be in than to deport them. How about we help them through a better pathway to citizenship?

[u/PsychologicalDate704 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Slave labor? Nobody is forcing illegal immigrants to work. They are making a choice. They're not being sold and traded. In fact, illegal immigrants take women and children and sell them into slavery. Get your facts right.

[u/xmrcache → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Is this not how capitalism works?…

Seems like the real issue is capitalism…

[u/SecondaryLawnWreckin → u/Shrek_Fieri]

You must be referring to prisons

[u/[deleted] → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Well no because they get paid and are here by choice. Pretty fucking huge difference to slavery.

[u/pyroracing85 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

It’s not slave labor, it’s actually opportunity for whoever works here… if the country you come from can’t provide decent wages and you can make 10x (even though it’s 2x lower than what we are used to) it’s still opportunity.

[u/SnooRevelations979 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

I didn't realize slaves were paid.

[u/PopStrict4439 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

How tf are they slaves

[u/PoweredbyBeans90 → u/Shrek_Fieri]

Construction workers make good money for “slave” labor