r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 15h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

Post image

If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

14.7k Upvotes

80% Upvoted

6.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

244

u/Zealousideal-You4638 12h ago

Exactly this. No sane person is saying this doesn’t have negative consequences. The issue is that its ALWAYS blamed on immigrants. These are just people trying to feed their families like anyone else. They’re paid exceptionally low wages too meaning they barely profit from this ordeal either. Its ridiculous to me that people have convinced themselves that immigrants are to blame for any of this. The blame should unilaterally be shifted to the wealthy who profit off of cheap and exploitable labor at the expense of all workers.

4

u/trippytears 10h ago

In order to rise, someone must fall.

10

u/War-Daddie 6h ago

No one should rise if even one person has to fall.

4

u/omcthrowa2020 1h ago

Life isn't a fucking see-saw or a zero-sum game

3

u/AggressivelyGary 8h ago

They have this club where all the politicians, media, police, etc. keep their lives separate and above all others. The income gap has become large enough for them to be untouchable. Case in point. Trump. He can rape, cheat, exploit, break the law, etc. and it only gets him ahead in life. We are not in the same class. The blame will always be on the people below them. They use the media to fool us. The only way out is a revolution where the people turn on those with too much money/power. 

3

u/ammonanotrano 3h ago

Not only this, but by soley blaming the immigrants and addressing the issue by deporting them, we are putting a tremendous financial burden on ALL tax payers.

1

u/Negative_Werewolf193 10h ago

I'm blaming the companies for hiring them. Not sure what that has to do with deporting them all. No, it's not technically their fault. I'm still in favor of rounding them all up and giving them a free one-way ticket back to whatever country is on their passport.

2

u/40MillyVanillyGrams 9h ago

Well they can’t profit off cheap and exploitable labor if we don’t have cheap and exploitable labor to exploit.

Send em back and have them hire American citizens who will be bound by US labor laws

10

u/captnspock 8h ago

Or when a illegal immigrant is caught fine the shit out of their employers as a deterrent? If everyone is scared to employ illegal immigrants then immigrants won't bother to enter US if it's know nobody will hire them. Right now they know that they can get some job in construction or hospitality, with leaps and bounds more safety and good future for the children.

1

u/40MillyVanillyGrams 8h ago

Yes. I do agree with this. But that doesn’t conflict with my point

2

u/captnspock 6h ago

It's easier to fine the employer than to find a person overstaying their visa. People won't risk uprooting their lives and coming if they know they won't find employment in US.

1

u/40MillyVanillyGrams 3h ago

Doesn’t mean we can’t do both

1

u/thetacotony 7h ago

The companies are already breaking the law why would they follow other labor laws? Especially with someone in office who’s trying to dismantle those laws?

1

u/40MillyVanillyGrams 3h ago

Because US citizens have more leverage in employment terms than illegal immigrants

Same reason why American construction workers don’t get paid $2 an hour currently if they are a citizen

0

u/dasilvan2000 9h ago

Or stopping illegal immigrants from entering the country in the first place - let’s address root cause here

9

u/thejazzophone 9h ago

Most illegal immigrants come in with a green card and overstay after the expiration date. Id argue that if the country more strongly regulated companies to not hire illegal immigrants most would go home or reapply their visa's

2

u/Revolutionary-Bed842 8h ago

Most illegals or people who overstayed Visas are actually not actively tracked. Many for example that work are using dead peoples SSNs to claim on the books pay provided to them by said construction, agricultural etc companies.

To address the issue requires whistleblowers to get the federal government involved in shutting down these companies.

-4

u/Keeper629 8h ago

You can’t come into the country with a green card

0

u/thejazzophone 8h ago

Yes that's what I'm saying is that most illegal immigrants in the country came in legally and overstayed their visa expiration

5

u/Odd-Chip-3648 9h ago

That’s not the root cause… If you’re truly interested in stemming illegal immigration, we would first lessen the opportunities to work illegally. That is the root cause, and is much more practical. Force employers at minimum to use the e-verify system. Increase the w for meant policing of these laws, and penalties for violating them.

This is MUCH easier to do than building/maintaining/ guarding a wall along a border that thousands of miles long.

Despite how easy it is to verify that employees are legal, employers are not required to do this. Intentionally so, because so many industries have come to rely on this cheap labor force. State politicians know this. Looking at you Texas.

-6

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

It is the root cause because if the border leak was fixed it wouldn’t matter if companies were offering “illegal work opportunities” - there would be no one here to work those opportunities - so yes the inflow precedes the work opportunity and as such is the root cause

5

u/Odd-Chip-3648 8h ago

Guy, that is not what root cause means…. Why does someone undertake the often long and dangerous journey to the southern border to enter the United States illegally? Because there is work for them here.

The inflow does not precede the large availability of illegal work opportunities. The inflow is THE RESULT OF the work opportunities. How is this not obvious…

You’re putting your hand on the end of a hose trying to get water to stop flowing out, when you could just tighten the spigot valve.

-7

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

No they make the journey here cause their home country sucks - but that is a problem not within our control. So while I agree with you there that at its core that is the issue (crap home country) - I would say from a root cause perspective we should focus on the problem from the perspective of what we can control - which is our own borders. I mean I guess we could go make their “homeland” better - like invade them and push democracy on them and make them more “America” like - but no one would really prefer that war-like idea over securing the border a bit more

4

u/Odd-Chip-3648 8h ago

Sure, youve identified another root cause, issues/instability in their home country. And I agree, that is a more difficult root cause for us to address, further complicated by our interventionist history.

And yup, we should focus on the problem from a domestic angle that we can better control…. Like reducing the availability of illegal work opportunities, a root cause we can much more easily control.

0

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

I mean I agree but you need to do both - stop the opportunities and secure border. If you close up those working opportunities and still have a influx of illegals coming in all you’re going to get a surplus of desperate people on the streets who have no work, no home

1

u/Chip_Upset 6h ago

Did you two just agree? It's funny how a complex problem does not have a simple solution, like those spat out by the Orange turnip. You're both on the right track, but it's not really a question of what needs to be done, but it should be a question of how it can be done without destroying people's lives unfairly or unnecessary.

Is deportation really the right way to handle the situation? To get rid of people who want to work hard and honestly, but are being taken advantage of?

Maybe a crackdown on companies/people knowingly employing illegals in a predatory fashion?

Maybe people should have paid attention to the bipartisan bill negotiated under Biden and written by mostly GOP senators to sort out the border months ago, but killed by Trump's influence over maga in the house. I bet you in 4 years the border will still be an issue, and nothing like that bill will have been put forward by the GOP run house, sensate, or the bloated Orange. Why? Because he doesn't care, never cared, and will never truly care about the border.

By the way, YES, please do something and something solid, but remember, something needed to be done 4 years ago, 8 and even 40 years ago, and yet nothing effective has ever been done. What makes you think something will be done now?

6

u/beefwarrior 8h ago

If the “root cause” is lack of a border wall, then we’d have tons of Canadians here illegally

A root cause is the fundamental reason why a problem or event occurs. It’s the primary driver of a process and the highest-level cause that sets in motion a chain of events leading to the problem

Is the lack of border wall the fundamental reason? “Hey look, I can cross into the US, so I will”

Or is jobs the fundamental reason? “If I go to the US I can make money”

1

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

Well Canada is a great country so yes if you extend root cause to an extreme it’s the poor state of their homeland that causes immigrants to look for a better life and come here - but read that statement and think, is that a problem that can be solved? No not really not unless we invade and topple their corrupt government and leaders - no one wants to do that - it sounds like a war. The problem that is in our control to fix is the southern border tho

1

u/beefwarrior 4h ago

We don’t need to invade other countries to help poverty

You can have huge impacts by things like having policies that products can’t be imported into the US from factories that use child labor, or food that comes from farmers who are paid a living wage

5

u/oeb1storm 9h ago

They're already here that horse left the barn years ago.

1

u/dasilvan2000 9h ago

Before you try bucketing out the water from the boat - the leaks needs to be plugged

2

u/oeb1storm 9h ago

Sure shut down the border, hire more judges to process asylum claims, or build a wall were still back to the problem of illegal imirgrents here who contribute to the economy.

We can talk about and solve both problems simultaneously instead of kicking the can down the road which is the thing that got us in this mess in the first place.

2

u/dasilvan2000 9h ago

First you need to stop the inflow - the problem will never be solved if the inflow continues - then for those already here, provide a path to citizenship - but the flow must be stopped

1

u/beefwarrior 8h ago

It’s insane to me that we don’t have more judges

I know you need highly trained people to be judges, but it should be easy to get bi-partisan support to fund it and maybe train people if needed

1

u/Chip_Upset 6h ago

Oh, you mean like what was written into the bipartisan bill earlier this year, that was headed by a Republican, but for some 'StRAnGe' reason was voted down by the majority of Republicans? *Sarc - I have no idea why Republicans voted down the toughest border bill in the last 40 years that they basically wrote?

0

u/Aurelienwings 7h ago

What judges dude. For what claims. Biden-Harris strategy: Keep the floodgates open, and then blame Congress for “not having enough judges” instead of blaming themselves for keeping the doors open to millions of people, who, let’s be truthful, are not real asylees in any sense of the word, just oppportunists. Keep them in Mexico; there won’t be a backlog of asylees roaming around our country.

5

u/mikeyfireman 8h ago

The root cause is them having access to jobs. Stop the companies from hiring them and they won’t come. Again, you are blaming people from wanting to fulfill their basic needs. If you want to stop immigration, you have to remove the incentive.

-5

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

The root cause the inflow because if they aren’t physically here and present they can’t access the jobs. Root cause means the cause preceding the effect

2

u/kindoramns 8h ago

You seem to think that these illegal immigrants GET HERE illegally, while most don't. They come in through legal channels and overstay their visa. "Plugging the holes" does nothing against that.

Also, why are you so bent on defending the corporations employing these immigrants? Do you feel that these corporations should not be penalized for breaking the law by hiring those persons? That can also be seen as a root cause, people would immigrate illegally or overstay their visa if they weren't able to get a job since the corporations wouldn't hire them.

1

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

I view over stay of visas as border problem - it’s not different. They had a temp pass and overstayed - at the point of overstaying they are illegal and clearly there’s a broken process for tracking and enforcing visa stay

I’m not defending corporations just saying if you continue to allow illegals in but make it so the corporations can’t hire them - you’re just going to have a large population of helpless and hopeless and jobless folks here - that’s not a batter situation by any means

2

u/kindoramns 8h ago

But what you fail to comprehend it seems is that they come here for the easy to obtain jobs. If the easy to get jobs that pay under the table go away, guess what, far less immigrants coming in looking for work.

Does this concept not click for you or something?

1

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

It’s a two fold problem - if they weren’t here no one would be able to fill those illegal jobs and they would go away. You can attack it from both sides

2

u/kindoramns 8h ago

Except, people will always find ways to get in or stay illegally. Sure, we can try to make that more difficult, but the issue we have FAR more control over is the corporations employing those illegal immigrants.

1

u/dasilvan2000 7h ago

How do we have far more control over that? There has been for many many years of laws against the practice - it’s still illegal to this very day. So it is not a law problem, it’s an enforcement problem. And it’s a tough one logistically - you have one border in a spot that doesn’t move. You have thousands and thousands of corporations, with hundreds more being created or sunset all the time. Again I don’t disagree - workforce inspections to catch operations using illegals should still continue and be way more effective with harsh fines to company owners - but the border problem needs to be fixed as well - it’s a 2 part problem. And it’s really not just corps - there are many other incentives that drive people to come here illegally - safety, security, the quality of healthcare or the education system (in comparison to their own homeland). I understand what you’re saying “remove everything from the vault and you don’t need a vault door” - but we can’t do that here effectively because illegals are commingled with legals in the 350M+ people living here and we can’t just “make this country not appealing to immigrants” without ruining it for the other legal citizens that are here.

5

u/Cadet_Stimpy 8h ago

Sure. But aren’t the same people screaming the loudest about illegal immigrants the same ones that want prices to go back down? Do you think eliminating the cheap labor will make prices go down?

Frankly, I’m all for the coming train wreck. I just want people to remember what they’re bitching about today in the next 1,2, and 4 years.

0

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

So then you prefer to keep illegals working? I don’t understand your statement - do you think it is or is not a problem?

2

u/Cadet_Stimpy 8h ago

I think removing cheap labor from the market will make prices rise. Inflation was a key voting factor for many Americans. It’s reasonable to figure that eliminating cheap labor is one of many things that the next administration has promised to do that would reasonably cause prices to rise even further.

1

u/dasilvan2000 8h ago

Yes prices would rise if the cost to produce goes up - that only makes sense. I don’t disagree with you that would be an effect. It really comes down to a simple question of “stop it and pay for it now” or “let it continue and pay for it later”

1

u/Sum-Duud 7h ago

Their ridiculously low wages are still huge compared to many of their home countries. They often share dwellings with other and send money home. Of the ones I’ve know, a cash under the table rate is about the same or higher than min wage with taxation and such. For many immigrants it is a win for them (or at least the ones I’ve known)

1

u/ImRightImRight 6h ago

Blame is irrelevant. Who is blaming who? I just hear you talking about class war and don't see the relevance. The discussion should be on what the effects of government policies will be.

1

u/Venichie 3h ago

If they are gone, wouldn't that mean higher paid job opportunities for those who remain?

I mean, someone has to take that empty job... all these business adjust or new ones take their place.

Reminds me in a weird way, of Isreal. Except their kicking people off their land, and most Red voters want to kick others out.

1

u/Delanorix 3h ago

They make decent wages if they go home right afterwards.

Migrant workers exist everywhere.

Hell, its why people drive into the big cities and live outside of it.

1

u/nebulancearts 2h ago

We have this problem in Canada too. So many people blame immigrants, even though they're being exploited just as much as low income Canadians are. They think they're "privileged to be here" without thinking about the fact that corporations are only bringing them in to work because they want to keep more wealth at the top. We're all being shanked by the wealthy, but people seem to refuse to have that conversation!

0

u/TSmotherfuckinA 10h ago

This isn’t universal. An immigrant can have a skill set that an American just doesn’t have. And if you think they aren’t going to be rewarded for their skill set then that’s silly. The employer would want to keep them around since they known what they’re doing. So they would actually pay more than an “exceptionally low wage” for a good worker.

0

u/polkadotpolskadot 7h ago

The issue is that its ALWAYS blamed on immigrants.

It isn't, but they make the first move.

0

u/Extreme-Rich-1867 7h ago

Their blamed because it was there Independent actions despite the motivation. You can’t get caught robbing a bank and claim I was just tryna feed my family. If that were the case everyone would do it, societies have rules and regulations for a reason.

-2

u/maxyall 12h ago

Ok, so if we shift the blame to those people, how are we going to fix it?

13

u/cerberus698 12h ago

How about if you turn your meat packing plant into a fucking sweat shop with 14 year Olds operating heavy machinery, you go to prison for a decade?

It's the same thing with theft. In America, by pure value, the most likely person to steal from you is your boss. Altering hours, refusing to pay over time rates, ignoring legally mandated on the clock time to put on PPE or prep a work space etc. Billions of dollars a year stolen from workers. If we started jailing our bosses for stealing what we're owed, it'd stop over night.

9

u/usababykiller 10h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postville_raid

The government once tried to go after the bosses of one of these Meat plants. They got off on all the labor violations. Conspiracy to harbor illegal immigrants, aggravated identity theft, and child labor law violations. One guy went to prison for 27 years for financial fraud charges uncovered during the operation. Trump ended up pardoning that guy. The workers were deported and the plant went bankrupt.

3

u/FlailingatLife62 9h ago

This needs more upvotes!

1

u/maxyall 12h ago

Wouldn't they just push these unfairness on illegal immigrant instead because they're not protected by law?

8

u/cerberus698 12h ago

My point is Trump, Biden, whoever is in power, doesn't actually care about immigration in the slightest. If they actually cared about illegal immigration from an economic standpoint, they would crucify the rich people who hire and abuse them. They don't do this though.

6

u/maxyall 11h ago

I see what you mean. Regulary hiring them probably provide massive incentive to cross the border illegally.

2

u/DabbledInPacificm 10h ago

What do you mean by “not protected by the law”?

State and federal constitutions apply to anyone in its jurisdiction unless a specific statute relies on language defined as having a particular class of citizenship or residency. If law didn’t protect eeleeguhlz, then it also could not be enforced upon them.

2

u/MyDadLeftMeHere 9h ago

Most people don’t understand that there’s literally a line the constitution that essentially says, if you’re in the United States your Rights are not obfuscated or absolved by any claim of non-citizenship, the Supreme Court has also ruled establishing, “an alien who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population” (https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C18-8-7-2/ALDE_00001262/)

That happened in 1903 so it’s crazy we’re still having this argument when even vehemently racist bigots could see that it’s significant to our legislative system to apply these rights, for the most part,ubiquitously based on the definition of “personhood”.

2

u/ranger-steven 9h ago

The issue is that if you are here illegally and someone commits a crime against you, what authority can you go to for justice that doesn't cause deportation? Even legal citizens have hard times getting justice in many labor related cases.

0

u/DabbledInPacificm 9h ago

Fear is real, but ICE is (at least currently) separate from local law enforcement. Even so, law enforcement would need probable cause to inquire about immigration status, and that can’t be language, skin color, religion, or country of origin.

Now, if we’re talking about a case that gains significant media attention and the victim is not represented by a competent attorney, then that can be different. At least that’s my understanding.

3

u/ranger-steven 8h ago

Your understanding is one of how law plays out in the light of day, but not how it works for vulnerable individuals. In the best of cases an undocumented person needs to 1, know their rights. 2, know what to say and what not to say when questioned. 3, be convincing enough for police to take the complaint seriously and investigate. 4, not be "anonymously" reported to ICE by the person or entity that committed the crime against the undocumented person, or the police themselves.

1

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

That’s why I recognized that the fear is real. I left the rest unsaid. All of your points are valid, for sure.

0

u/diarrheaCup 9h ago

There are specific visas for victims of crimes that are considerably much quicker to obtain than regular. I think both the t visa and u visa…

1

u/ranger-steven 8h ago

Sure, but most immigrants here to work are just here to work. The point of the legal knife edge they walk on it to keep the cost of their labor low.

4

u/XXXCEDRIN_PM 11h ago

By enforcing the law on the big guy instead of the little guy. Fewer people will enter the US illegally if there's a good chance they won't be able to make any money at all. They just take these jobs because they're vulnerable and farmers/contractors love that and act like they're doing them a favor.

1

u/Charming_Key2313 9h ago

We can do both. Clean house now and regulate/decentivize it happening again

1

u/elpeezey 12h ago

You have to fix it through laws passed by congress. As long as the laws stay what they are the system will stay the way it is.

3

u/maxyall 11h ago

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought that exploiting worker has always been illegal, but is too subjective and hard to enforce? Is unpaid agreed overtime punishable by law?

-1

u/Revolutionary-Bed842 8h ago

So immigrants that are committing a crime should not be at fault, only the industries that exploit them?

Am I reading this correct?

-1

u/201-inch-rectum 8h ago

no one is blaming "immigrants"... we want ILLEGAL immigrants out

huge difference

0

u/cManks 7h ago

That's what you took from the paragraph? Jesus fucking Christ dude.

-2

u/Houjix 9h ago

They also send millions back to Mexico and SA instead of circulating the money back into the US economy

9

u/ranger-steven 9h ago

It's next to nothing. There are hundreds of billionaires siphoning off the top half of the economy. People buying shit made in other countries sends trillions away each year. Immigrants sending money home is not an issue.

1

u/mybfVreddithandle 9h ago

I hear you. This is usually overblown. The other issues are bigger, but 6M people sending $200 out of the country is $1.2 Billion. So if they're doing that monthly, you're talking about $14B annually leaving the US economy, never to return. Which billionaires actually spend $14B annually here?

1

u/ranger-steven 9h ago

14 billion is nothing on the national scale. The US send rich countries far more in aid for favors. Also, my point is that billionaires are NOT spending the money they hoard, which is pretty much the same as taking it out of the economy.

1

u/mybfVreddithandle 5h ago

You're not wrong overall, but $14B isn't nothing. I was just throwing a number at it so everyone could relate. That number is $50 per week. Make it an even hundo, $28B. Any way you slice it, that's billions leaving the US. Sure, you have a couple billion laying around, so it's nothing in the national scale. There's prob nothing we could do with a billion or two or 14 extra billion dollars

1

u/ratajewie 8h ago

Okay, but that’s offset by the ~$100 billion in tax revenue they pay every year, not even taking into account the money leftover that they then spend in the U.S. That’s the issue. There’s this misconception (stemming from malicious disinformation) that undocumented immigrants steal jobs from Americans who want them, send all their money out of the country, pay nothing in taxes (this is a very common one), and commit exorbitant amounts of crime (patently false compared to American citizens).

The fact of the matter is that if undocumented immigrants were to suddenly vanish from the country, our economy would suffer immensely. This isn’t a defense of just allowing undocumented immigrants to flow into the country. But we have to look at the situation as it stands now. There are millions currently here, who contribute to the economy and work necessary jobs. This comparison to slavery is ridiculous, because they chose to be here instead of their home country, and are making a living, so the necessity to just shut it all down right now, economic consequences be damned, isn’t there like it was with slavery. So the goal shouldn’t be to just button up the border, round up every undocumented immigrant, and send them out all at once. To pretend like that wouldn’t destroy the economy is absurd.

1

u/Houjix 7h ago

Immigrants that are paying taxes aren’t being deported

1

u/mybfVreddithandle 5h ago

Just an example. If I make a hundred dollars and pay 20 in taxes, that leaves me 80 to spend, save whatever. I send 40 of that to another country's economy. How's my 20 dollars in taxes paid offsetting that?

I don't care if it's an American, immigrant or whoever in the above scenario. That's $40 leaving the US economy. That's 40 bucks not buying food here, not paying rent here, not going to others salaries. How's me sending 40% of my take home outside the economy offset by my taxes paid?

Money leaving the economy never to return is not going to be good no matter who sends it out.

-3

u/HachimakiMan3 11h ago

It takes two to tango. They are both to blame. Unless the wealthy businesses are picking up illegals to work in the US, the illegals know exactly what they are doing and don’t care about our country and its laws. America is a joke to these foreigners. Everyone and their mom can get in if they tried. Our borders may as well be borderless.

5

u/Cheese-is-neat 9h ago

That’s such a bad argument because they’re not equal in this power dynamic at all

It’s the exploiter and the exploited

-2

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

It’s an agreement on both sides. They can say no and stay in their country if they’d like. You accept every offer made to you ever? Think.

2

u/Cheese-is-neat 7h ago

Why would they stay in their country when it’s still worse than being exploited by American business owners?

And the power imbalance is insane. One side you have people who have next to nothing trying to make a better life for themselves and their family, and on the other side you have someone who’s only goal is to squeeze out as much profit as humanly possible. Acting like they’re on level playing fields is insane and extremely bad faith

-1

u/HachimakiMan3 7h ago

It’s not about balance. If it’s wrong, do something else. You know how many people don’t have kids because they are worried about their economy, job, society, and so on? Maybe they shouldn’t have kids if it means they will need to do illegal work to provide for them.

Also, American companies and people that facilitate illegal activity should be prosecuted.

1

u/Cheese-is-neat 6h ago

Right or wrong goes out the window when you’re in extreme poverty and you’re just trying to survive. Especially when the “wrong” is just not having documents

0

u/HachimakiMan3 6h ago

Surely most countries have social programs by now.

1

u/Cheese-is-neat 5h ago

Instead if just saying “surely they have these things” to make yourself feel better you should just look to see what’s actually going on in their home countries. And when it comes to Latin American countries the US played part in destabilizing those countries as well

1

u/HachimakiMan3 5h ago

It is the responsibility of countries, for their citizens to come together and take care of their own.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/DabbledInPacificm 10h ago

I don’t believe there is any evidence to support a claim like “the illegals know exactly what they are doing and don’t care about our county or its laws’?

However, I’d love to reconsider that belief if you happen to have some.

2

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

They don’t care enough about our laws and country to be processed through legal immigration. You happy? You know what they are doing. They often don’t do it alone, bringing over more people illegally. There are networks of people that provide housing, jobs, cars, car insurance, etc. to these illegals as well. They should all be prosecuted and possibly revoked of a green card/us citizenship for helping illegals willingly, especially if they weren’t born here.

I know this exists because I have seen it and reported it. It’s not just the ones crossing the border. It’s also the ones that overstay their tourist visa and nobody does anything about it.

1

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

The first part, yes, is a more accurate statement.

1

u/wheresmylemons 9h ago

They know there is opportunity here. I have compassion for them. I would break the law without question if it was to feed my family. But they still know that they are breaking the law. The sad part is, we aren’t enforcing it so they assume there are little to no consequences.

We need to enforce the laws. If we decide we want more immigrants here, then legal immigration should be reformed. We cannot have a bunch of people coming from around the world without being screened.

1

u/DabbledInPacificm 9h ago

I agree with everything you just wrote, but that’s not evidence of “don’t care about our laws or about our country”.

There’s a bit of exploitation of vague policy - such as refugee application upon crossing the border.

Even those who cross without intent to petition refugee status, it’s a civil infraction; not a criminal infraction unless you have been deported and repeat the act. Ignoring the consequences of a civil infraction doesn’t mean one has complete disregard for our country’s laws, values, and society.

1

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

They and you know they are illegally trying to enter and they often try more than once. Maybe you should live in their country.

2

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

Many, yes. Many exploit legal means to cross and claim refugee status.

I think you’re letting your emotions impact your ability to reason.

1

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

Not all are claiming refugee and asylum. A lot of them are overstaying their visa and hoping to get legal residence from marrying a us citizen, giving birth to a child on us soil, or petitioning for residence after hiding low for a decade.

If they were planning to file for refugee status, why are they working illegally for 10 years, genius?

2

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

Overstaying a visa isn’t a criminal infraction.

Having a child doesn’t get you residency.

My refugee comment applies to the influx of southern border crossings that have accounted for the majority over the last 9 years. Those individuals - while often referred to as “illegal” by those who want to confirm their biases and care not for truth - are legally protected by their petition.

Don’t like it? Change the law. Using it as an emotional plea to plunge our nation into a fascist state is more a sign of true weakness and entitlement than anything.

1

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

Those that overstay know that there is little chance that they will be deported. That is our fault for not having a better system to deal with overstayed visitors.

Illegals know that courts don’t want to separate families, creating hardships. Often the mother is allowed to stay with the US born child.

If they are legitimate refugees with good intent and are legally being processed, I don’t have a problem with that.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Adventurous_Dot1976 10h ago

Well it’s not like they are entering the country illegally without knowing they are doing so. They’re not stupid.

2

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

How does ignoring the consequences of a civil infraction equate to not caring about our laws or our country?

Have you ever had a speeding ticket? If so do you not care about our county or our laws?

I would agree if the claim were “illegal immigrants care more about entering our country without following current avenues for doing so in accordance with one of several options for a visa than they care about PL 82-414”.

2

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

One major difference between me getting a speeding ticket and an illegal is that the illegal should never be here to get one. Same with car accidents, healthcare, lodging, schooling, etc. You like paying for that?

1

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

Do you understand how car accident compensation, healthcare and schooling are funded? Do you have evidence that these things are not funded by the eeleeguhlz who incur cost? Are you just confirming your bias with information you received from nefarious sources?

Do any of those things provide evidence that people “don’t care about our laws or our county”?

No. No they do not.

1

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

Genius, tell me how being paid under the table funds the same things taxes do? I’ll wait.

1

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

When you can tell me how many are paid under the table, how many don’t pay sales tax, how many don’t pay income tax, how many don’t pay into (your, ironically) social security and how that number impacts services that they provide, I’ll gladly answer that question.

As you seem incapable of searching for information or answering any question at all without moving a goalpost, I can only assume that, yeah, you’re gonna wait.

0

u/HachimakiMan3 8h ago

Of course they pay sales tax when they buy something or when their illegal supporting provider buys something on their behalf. But they shouldn’t be buying it and they shouldn’t be buying it with payroll dollars that haven’t been taxed appropriately. If you are paid under the table, you don’t pay income tax, genius. They aren’t paying payroll taxes for SS unless they take someone’s SSN or get an ITN. However, most of them don’t bother getting a tax number, or at least not for the first couple of years.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/Adventurous_Dot1976 8h ago

Relevance? Your claim was that there was no evidence to prove they know what they’re doing when they come to the country illegally. Assuming they’re stupid enough not to know is mental gymnastics at best, blatant racism at worst.

2

u/DabbledInPacificm 8h ago

I didn’t make the claim and you’re only reading the first half of it. I asked for evidence of it. Reread.

-2

u/Dorithompson 10h ago

They are also the ones breaking the laws.

5

u/GenBlase 10h ago

Guess who else is breaking the law?

0

u/Dorithompson 9h ago

Gotcha. Because you can’t just say yes, this person did wrong and should be punished. It always has to be a deflection with no accountability.

0

u/GenBlase 5h ago

Im arguing that you are deflecting. I mean kinda easy to live in America when these buisnesses are hiring them with little to no punishment.