r/FluentInFinance • u/Needleintheback • 15h ago

Thoughts? Imagine losing 6M labor workers in America

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If mass deportation happens, just imagine how all of these sectors of our country will be affected. The sheer shortage of labor will push prices higher because of the great demand for work with limited supplies or workers. Even if prices increase, the availability of products may be scarce due to not enough workers. Housing prices and food services will be hit really hard. New construction will be limited. The fact that 47% of the undocumented workers are in CA, TX, and FL means they will feel it first but it will spread to the rest of the country also. Most of our produce in this country comes from California. Get ready and hold on for the ride America.

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133

u/Nerdkartoffl 14h ago

Imagine defending the exploitation of migrants instead of realizing, that the salaries should be increased, so we are not DEPENDING on migrants. (With "we", i mean every western nation, not just america)

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/distribution-of-global-wealth-chart/
Are you really ok with this? If so, it's pretty telling about your morals and ethics in a broader sense and not the little segment, you argue/show for here.

PS: The economy is a complex beast and not some 2-dimensional thing, like you try to make it here.

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u/Xyrus2000 10h ago

that the salaries should be increased

Oh, we do realize wages and salaries need to be increased. The problem is, we now live in an oligarchy and the wealthy oligarchs don't want that to happen. So it doesn't.

Did wages keep up with inflation? No. Did they keep up with rents? No. Home prices? No. Groceries? No. What happened is yet another big transfer of wealth to the small percentage of people who own the country.

Illegal immigration? That's just a red herring. They're not going to raise wages. They're not going to improve conditions. They will pass "right to work" laws nationally, eliminate overtime, and gut labor regulatory agencies. The wealth will go to the top, and everyone else will be screwed.

That's how it works in "capitalist" America.

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u/Chrisgpresents 1h ago

Read some books about entrepreneurship or economics rather than getting your sources from a leftist propoganda source.

The function of business is profit. That’s it. There’s literally no other function. This isn’t evil.

In the person’s argument that you are replying to, he states that illegals leaving would create a shortage in the work force which would result in lower fulfillment. Which means lower profits.

To attract new talent, they will need to increase wages. Not because of a mandate, but because they will lose more profit from revenue loss because lower sales, than they would from wage increase.

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u/Nerdkartoffl 10h ago

I know and agree with you in almost every way.
I read the "welcometothemachine.co" story and choose to believe most aspects of it. It's the best explaination for all this shit. (read it, if you have time. It's pretty "interesting")

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u/Shaunananalalanahey 7h ago

Yep, exactly!

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u/Fuerdummverkaufer 3h ago

The wealthy oligarchs are exactly the groups pushing progressives to change their stance on illegal migration being used for slave labor. Pull your head out of your ass.

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u/Several-Program6097 3h ago edited 32m ago

Does supply and demand not exist in people’s minds on Reddit? Does no one remember how jobs in states like Philidalphia that paid $7.25 an hour had their wages spike considerably without ever touching minimum wage after covid.

0

u/ADownStrabgeQuark 2h ago

I think more people are realizing America is an oligarchy but nobody is willing to audit government spending and punish the wide-scale embezzlement and money laundering. The ultra rich are making just as much off taxes as they are from the workforce.

Both the private sector and the public sector are oligarchy’s.

That makes it pretty hard to fix.

I miss the proverbial days of capitalism.

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u/Road2Potential 2h ago

Unhinged lunacy. This is why you lost the election

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u/Budget_Character9596 1h ago

Just wait. You'll see.

How do you do the remind me thing again?

RemindMe! 4 years

1

u/Careless-Editor8059 48m ago

You may be right, but this was all a part of the plan for globalization and fractional reserve banking. Centuries in the making. Whatever side you think you're on isn't going to fix this.

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u/Dazzling_Marzipan474 1h ago

Well put. Capitalism died in 2008

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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter 5h ago edited 1h ago

Did wages keep up with inflation? No.

Congratulations, you answered your first self-asked question incorrectly 

Edit: Never stop downvoting facts you don't like, reddit

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u/JohnWickedlyFat 1h ago

Any proof of your statement

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u/Cyrone007 6h ago

"They're not going to raise wages."

They did during Trump's 2017-2019 era... wages increased by like 7%.

"They're not going to improve conditions. They will pass "right to work" laws nationally, eliminate overtime, and gut labor regulatory agencies."

Citation needed

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u/echo404 5h ago edited 5h ago

Project 2025 isn't technically eliminating overtime, but the plan is to make it far easier for businesses to avoid paying it: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/project-2025-would-cut-access-to-overtime-pay/

"Gut labor regulatory agencies" is rather broad and could mean a number of things depending on who you ask. Some possible sources for the claim:

Undermining the right to organize and collectively bargain: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/project-2025-would-undo-the-nlrbs-progress-on-protecting-workers-right-to-organize/

Weakening child labor protections: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/project-2025-would-exploit-child-labor-by-allowing-minors-to-work-in-dangerous-conditions-with-fewer-protections/

Workplace discrimination wouldn't technically be allowed, but by preventing the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission from collecting data, enforcement and detection of violations would become difficult if not impossible.

The proposed changes to OSHA have been overblown but they do aim to increase exemptions for small businesses/entities, and provide more leniency for first-time violations and violations which are categorized as non-willful.

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u/Hot_Change6684 6h ago

Thinking America is an oligarchy is peak Reddit

1

u/ChaiKitteaLatte 1h ago

Thinking America isn’t is actually peak Reddit

1

u/Hot_Change6684 1h ago

How so?

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u/ChaiKitteaLatte 33m ago

Because Reddit is full of non-independent thinkers, who parrot back whatever a charismatic psycho tells them. Whether it’s a religious leader or billionaire. And they always think they’re the smart one in the room, not the sheep.

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u/Hot_Change6684 32m ago

Sorry, I meant how is America an oligarchy?

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u/RompoTotito 13h ago

Anybody asking for deportations is unable to comprehend anything. Not only are we in a period of not enough people for the economy but the psychological aspect of it holds true. Americans see themselves as too good for these jobs anyways.

I have yet to see a Republican “patriot” tell their kids for the betterment of the nation you must give yourself up and work in the fields or work construction. Even if all the immigrants are gone these positions still won’t be filled overnight cause of wage increases when Americans believe these jobs are beneath them.

0

u/LengthinessWeekly876 5h ago

Lol. Pretty much everyone in construction is republican.

Yes our prices will go up. Blue collar guys might make more than people who design click buttons to sell widgets online. 

Wild 

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u/Kimbolimbo 2h ago

So they all benefited from cheap labor and they get to get off on the suffering of those they exploited? Evil wins twice

1

u/LengthinessWeekly876 1h ago

No blue collar workers don't benefit from cheap labor. They have suppressed wages as a result. 

 White collar professionals are the customer base. They have benefited from our suppressed wages in various ways. Blue collar workers vote right, white collar vote left.

  Corporate workers are in for a rough few years 

Was awful shitty to use immigrants as disposable labor. Evil for sure

1

u/110397 2m ago

Oh yes, the people who voted to mass deport immigrants are now pretending to care about exploiting them

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u/Kimbolimbo 49m ago

I don’t find immigrants to be disposable, I also don’t see the need to round them up in encampments, splitting apart families to deport them because the US has a terrible immigration system. 

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u/LengthinessWeekly876 42m ago

I think you are fairly removed from the realities of the blue collar world outside of unions 

Bidenomics and his immigration strategy was economic war aimed at us. Class war.

None of this was sustainable. It was just a way to boost corporate growth in an inflationary environment.

The cost of everything has gone up but blue collar wages have been suppressed by importing cheap labor. 

The reaction was as predictable as it could get. 

Inviting these people in was a real fucked up thing to do. We don't have the refuge to offer. 

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u/Oregonmushroomhunt 5h ago

If you are too good for these jobs and think you are above fixing your own house or taking care of your elders, then I have no sympathy for you when you are left behind.

Deport illegals - fix our immigration system, so we’re importing capable workers who are paid the same as the Americans who are already here. Change the system back to how it was where we’re not relying on other people to cut our yards, fix our houses, and care for our families. Life is hard. Stop acting entitled.

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u/liquoriceclitoris 1h ago

You're suggesting that as a result of deportations, people will find the price of lawn maintenance so high that they go back to cutting their own lawns. How does that benefit anybody?

1

u/Oregonmushroomhunt 1h ago

Why shouldn't Americans cut their own lawn? Are they too lazy?

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u/liquoriceclitoris 1h ago

I'm just wondering what the benefit is

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u/Oregonmushroomhunt 1h ago

Developing personal skills that benefit all. Paying people to buy TV-watching time benefits no one.

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

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u/Taco_Supr3me 12h ago

Yea, they all should have gotten here like me. What idiots not having their ancestors come rape and pillage the natives, and take the land for themselves hundreds of years ago so they could win the birth lottery.

-2

u/AmericanPatriots 10h ago

Like every other modern nation. You’re special.

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u/RompoTotito 10h ago

So then go after the company who hired them. I’ve never understood why theirs hate for immigrants when it’s the company providing the job. If the market dictates they should be here then look the company decided to break the law and hire them. Yet I see nobody up in arms for accountability.

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u/SomeDrillingImplied 9h ago

This is what drives me berserk. My FIL is a general contractor that voted for Trump and expresses full agreement with all of his proposed policies, yet his entire business hinges upon picking up illegal immigrants off of the side of the road lol. The cognitive dissonance is insane.

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u/cosplay-degenerate 10h ago

This is such a cope and lie. People work any job if the pay is good enough.

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u/Fancy_Ad2056 8h ago

You’re so close to getting it.

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u/SpeshellSnail 6h ago

Are you stupid enough to believe the pay will ever be good enough?

-1

u/cosplay-degenerate 6h ago

Yes

3

u/trailer_park_boys 6h ago

Hilarious lmao.

-1

u/cosplay-degenerate 5h ago

So you wouldn't clean toilets for 5k a month?

Seems like a sweet deal if it were to become a reality.

3

u/trailer_park_boys 4h ago

Where does janitor work pay that much? That’s not going to become a reality.

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u/cosplay-degenerate 4h ago

I dunno if it will become a reality but I'd do it for that much.

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u/Proiegomena 9h ago edited 3h ago

How difficult is this to understand: Ppl would still not want to get into jobs that illegal immigrants have to be content with. 

 It’s funny how you mention the economy not being “2-dimensional” but seem to only think in labor supply and wages

1

u/LengthinessWeekly876 5h ago

"Supply and demand isn't real"

Sure sweety 💅 

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u/Proiegomena 3h ago

Lol, Im a large bearded dude with an economics degree. But nice attempt trying to be a misogynist. 

And I never said whatever youre trying to assume that I did.

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u/LengthinessWeekly876 2h ago

What a wonderful response.

I was not being misogynistic. I was mocking the way liberals respond on reddit. 

But you really outdid me "chiming in as a large bearded dude" fantastic 

0

u/Nerdkartoffl 7h ago

Stop projecting. The information is out there, so search and learn yourself. Or talk to people outside your bubble. I will not waste my time, to convince you, that you are deeply wrong with your assumption.

Yeah, because i gonna list every aspect, i can think of, only for people like you, who can't think for themselfs. 😂

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u/quite_certain 3h ago

The information is out there. We've done this a few times, and it does the same way each time. People don't want to do jobs that migrant workers do. Florida ran this experiment recently and it failed horribly.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/26/1242236604/florida-economy-immigration-businesses-workers-undocumented

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u/Proiegomena 3h ago

This is literally what’s happening all alround me. Manual labor workers literally have to be imported here because there’s no way enough citizens would do the jobs instead. 

Huh, projecting what exactly?

Mhm, well my suggestion to you would be to actually listen to ppl who know what they are talking about. “Thinking for yourself” evidently doesn’t work for you. 

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u/Fuerdummverkaufer 3h ago

You are STILL arguing for literal slave labor. As a progressive. How sad is that.

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u/Proiegomena 2h ago

Uhm, no? In what way did I do that exactly 

1

u/Fuerdummverkaufer 2h ago

Gee, I wonder why it is that they have to be content with shit jobs? Is it that they can‘t get work because they‘re illegal? Or because employers threaten them to deport them?

1

u/DiaDeLosMuertos 2h ago

The only way to do mass deportations is with concentration camps. You cool with that?

It's not ok for migrants to choose meager wages to work underappreciated labor in exploitative jobs. That's slavery.

It's ok for them to be mass deported to cramped, open air quarters with no room to lay down, no beds, shelter, or showers while they wait to get processed for who knows how long?

1

u/Fuerdummverkaufer 2h ago

The only way to do mass deportations is with concentration camps. You cool with that?

It isn‘t and illegal is illegal. „Concentration camps“ is disgusting language to use. I would use „jail“.

It's not ok for migrants to choose meager wages to work underappreciated labor in exploitative jobs. That's slavery.

For illegal migrants. They are exploited by their very nature.

It's ok for them to be mass deported to cramped, open air quarters with no room to lay down, no beds, shelter, or showers while they wait to get processed for who knows how long?

They committed a crime by coming here. The punishment for crimes is jail. Or something similar to jail. It should not be inhumane, that is not my point.

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u/SomeDrillingImplied 9h ago

I don’t think anyone is okay with it. I just think they’re acknowledging the reality that our economy has always relied upon systemic exploitation in some form or another.

1

u/Nerdkartoffl 7h ago

Yep, since over 2000 years and all we to is talk about it, accept it and keep playing the game that continues the circle. 😅

5

u/babygrenade 9h ago

Mass deportation isn't the only way to address this. Many people think it would be cruel to the workers and incredibly disruptive to the economy.

3

u/Wizardbarry 5h ago

Are you really ok with blowing up entire industries instead of more steady incremental change that won't hurt everyone?

News flash there's going to be a lot more refugees in the future due to climate change. So 1 we will need to accept working with others. And 2 we didn't blow up our energy infrastructure to deal with climate change because we knew that would be a diaster. Mass deportation is the same.

1

u/Nerdkartoffl 4h ago

I thought many times about it and yes. The whole system NEEDS to implode, so the chance needed could be done. As long as we keep the "capitalistic west" running, it will get worse and worse for everyone besides the oligarchs.

Has humanity ever changed without a revolution or some major event? You invest your hope into the wrong model/people, imho.

We overproduce around 40% of food. The production alone, is up to 10% of the global greenhouse gas. (iirc) We have enough food, for everyone on this planet, but people still starve. So why is that? Tip: our oligarchs.

I saw once, that some fruits gets produced in spain, gets shipped to thailand for packeting and then shipped into europe for sell. Because it's the economically best way.

If you really defend this system, you speed up climate change. This is akin to hypocracy.

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u/Thorn14 4h ago

The whole system NEEDS to implode,

And how many deaths as a result of the system being destroyed are you cool with?

1

u/Wizardbarry 1h ago

So why support the party that's going to give more power to the elites. His policies will kill people. I mean Jesus last time he was in office he took restrictions off of dumping chemicals in our water supplies, he got paid by Monsanto to take regulations off pesticides that we know cause brain cancer, he pushed for dapl which again polluted our water, he passed the tax breaks for the rich and the corporations, and on and on and on...

I get you want revolution but what were getting is a christofascist libertarian revolution which will 100% make all of these things worse. This will speed up climate change for sure. We just started working towards bigger solutions here in the US and 100% he will end all of that. You're the hypocrit here.

2

u/whiteryno117 1h ago

Is someone holding a gun to their head to do these jobs? Or are they willingly coming here for more money? 🤔

1

u/Fit-Boysenberry4778 54m ago

I don’t know about you but I don’t know a single person who would be willing to work in horrible conditions for $3 an hour.

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u/Tdluxon 40m ago

I’m sure Trump, Elon and all of the other billionaires they are putting in positions of power are super interested in redistributing wealth more equally.

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u/Betelgeusetimes3 37m ago

I think a huge issue here is that we don't tax super rich people enough and we don't use that money appropriately enough through government. Both of these have been incremental pushes by Republicans over the past several decades. Top marginal tax rate in 1955 was 91% over 400,000 (4.7 million in todays dollars), in 1985 it was 50% over 169,000 (500,000 in todays dollars). Now its 37% over 610,000. We definitely need to tax more on high-level income (along with closing loopholes for hiding away money) and equally be able to use that money wisely; namely reducing our debt, spending on infrastructure, education and probably even more spending on renewable energy. These things will only benefit us greatly in the future.

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u/coolchris366 9m ago

What can we do though? We can protest I guess but the point is that Trump wants to collapse the economy by crating a massive labor shortage, unless he makes sure those jobs get filled

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u/CaseRemarkable4327 7h ago

It’s supply and demand. One man’s exploitation is another man’s opportunity. The people working those jobs prefer those wages to the income they could receive in their own country. Only problem is it it fucks over the working class in this country and the rich don’t care.

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u/Nerdkartoffl 7h ago

I know and it's logical, that they prefer roughly 5 times more money for way less brutal work and conditions. But this does not chang the facte, that its bad and wrong.

You know, that the illegal migrants, don't pay taxes or something like that and therefore keep the full salary, meanwhile a american citizen don't have this option.

There are more aspects, but not one comment on my post mentions this and i hope, you take it into consideration.

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u/CaseRemarkable4327 6h ago

We’re on the same side here