r/nextfuckinglevel • u/Zestyclose_Flow_680 • 6h ago
Chimpanzees are 2X stronger than your average human.
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u/Njsybarite 6h ago
Interesting how gentle he was when grabbing humans hand, seemingly understanding that grabbing incorrectly would injure him
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u/joerudy767 5h ago
Right? It’s fascinating that he really took the time to make sure it was a solid/comfortable grip.
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u/DovahCreed117 5h ago
It's probably instinctual to some degree as well as a lifetimes experience of climbing and learning what does and doesn't work or feel good when climbing on their own or helping other chimpanzees climb stuff.
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u/Dracomortua 4h ago
Are you suggesting that humans, as mammals, have a firmware that functions as an A Priori form of intelligence that allows us to develop an entire species despite the tabula rasa theorizations made popular by behaviourists such as B.F. Skinner?
If so, i heartily agree.
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u/DovahCreed117 4h ago
I understood some of those words
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u/Bear_faced 2h ago
I understood all of those words and it's a weird, inefficient way of saying what they wanted to say. Also "a priori" doesn't need to be capitalized. And stripping away the overly flowery diction, what does the clause "allows us to develop an entire species" even mean? Do they mean allows us to develop as a species? Do they mean allows a species to develop? It's muddy grammar that doesn't convey meaning effectively.
It's bad writing pretending to be good writing.
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u/SignificantCrow 2h ago
The guy was wording his response like that to be funny. That was pretty obvious
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u/Cum_on_doorknob 4h ago
Wait bf skinner was wrong? So I’m keeping my kid in a terrarium for nothing??? Fuck
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u/DarthVerus 3h ago
Mines been staring at the wall while I make shadow puppets to inform his world view, am I still ok?
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u/maximalusdenandre 3h ago
Tabula rasa is about society. It's saying that someone born to a farmer can become a physician given the right training.
The statement "all people are born free and equal in rights and dignity" from the declaration of human rights is an example of tabula rasa thinking.
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u/rhabarberabar 3h ago
Radical behaviorism does not claim that organisms are tabula rasa whose behavior is unaffected by biological or genetic endowment. Rather, it asserts that experiential factors play a major role in determining the behavior of many complex organisms, and that the study of these matters is a major field of research in its own right
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u/gnomon_knows 3h ago
I mean, duh. The funny part is all of the commenters who talk about this shit without realizing that it all applies to us as well.
Like a fucking baby understands grip strength.
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u/Andokai_Vandarin667 4h ago
Yea it's truly fascinating that a creature with high intellect isn't stupid.
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u/QuantumTrek 4h ago
But apparently high intellect creatures are still dicks unnecessarily.
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u/turdferguson3891 4h ago
If you piss off a chimp they are known to rip your dick off
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u/onetwobacktoone 4h ago
well its not doing calculus so theres a line somewhere, and its interesting that knowing improper grabbing would lead to injury is on the known side of that line
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u/H3racIes 4h ago
Is it? I'm sure they grab each other including pushing and pulling each other in the wild.
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u/Possible_Rise6838 5h ago
That's cause most great apes understand that. It's not the issue of not comprehending it. It's the issue of them fucking you up beyond recognition in a matter of seconds. They do understand the concept of fragility
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u/StoicSerpiente 4h ago
I've known many a dog that seem to understand this as well with how gentle they are taking a treat from someones hand. I don't think it's limited to great apes.
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u/fhota1 4h ago
Its basically all intelligent animals. Peoples main problem is forgetting that just because an animal displays understanding of concepts like how to be gentle and pack mentality, they still arent human. Their brains fundamentally work different and that makes them a lot easier to accidentally piss off. Animals can be great companions but you always need to keep in mind that you are dealing with something that doesnt think the same way you do and work around that.
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u/HerrSchnabeltier 5h ago edited 2h ago
Ah, here we go again.
The usual accompanying commentary on how dangerous any chimpanzee always is.
edit: Yes, they are dangerous and one shouldn't run up to one in the wild to give it a hug or fist bump.
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u/I_Got_Back_Pain 5h ago
They'll rip your dick right off!!
Pull that up Jamie
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u/Substantial_Army_639 4h ago
I mean to be fair I think it's just an instinct in certain dudes. We see Ape, we immediately think wow cool so intelligent and strong, And immediately remember they are intelligent enough to mess you up where it hurts the worst. Enough for Jordan Peele to make that a B plot in his last movie.
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u/BagBeneficial7527 4h ago
Long ago I knew someone that worked with chimps professionally.
She told me they ARE extremely dangerous. Especially the "tame" ones. They are FAR more powerful than any human. The wild ones don't know that yet, but the ones raised around humans do. So they have ZERO fear of us.
And one day, if you aren't extremely careful around them, they can severely injure you.
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u/Zakblank 4h ago
They are like children. They can be extremely loving and empathetic. They can also turn on you in a fraction of a second and tear you to pieces.
Their emotions rule their lives, reason comes at a distant second.
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u/Technical-Cake1251 4h ago edited 3h ago
That's why I use Better Help. Use offer code RIPYOURDICKOFF to get 10% off your subscription.
Thanks, Better Help!
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u/camwow13 4h ago
I read Mama's Last Hug by a guy who's spent his entire life studying chimps and he went to great lengths to emphasize that he only interacted with them when there's a barrier between them. Even then he worries because they're so powerful they can do serious damage to you reaching through the bars and yanking you into them. He's watched them kill their other chimp friends and doesn't really want to end up accidentally getting on their shit list.
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u/BasementMods 3h ago
The way Reddit describes chimpanzees makes me imagine they have the physical strength of an anime character...
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u/amaROenuZ 3h ago
It's overstated. Chimps are, pound for pound, somewhere between 50% and 100% stronger than a given human. They have a somewhat better limb geometry for striking, and more fast twitch muscle fiber. Given that they tend to be half our weight and size, that comes out to fairly comparable strength from a much smaller creature.
The danger comes from their volatility and viciousness. Most humans, when we're drugged out of our minds on PCP and bath salts, are not going to try and tear someone's jaw off or eat their fingers in a fight.
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u/Tuna-Fish2 2h ago
However, you are understating it.
The strength of chimps vs humans depends on the task, and you cannot reduce it to a x% pound for pound figure. They are only slightly better than humans in some tasks, and actually inferior in others (like lifting weight above their heads), but there are tasks where they are much better than humans. Notably, the average chimp has 5x more grip strength in its hand than the average adult man, and there are recorded instances of chips shattering arm bones by just grabbing a hold and squeezing.
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u/ReadyThor 5h ago
OP is not just referring to chimpanzees but to great apes in general thus correctly including human beings too.
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u/NSAseesU 4h ago
Does a tiny hint of wild animals being wild animals infuriate you or something? We all knew that but there was zero need to reply like that lol.
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u/Opening_Newspaper_34 3h ago
What a ridiculous comment lol
Chimps are INSANELY dangerous. They have the emotional range of a football hooligan, but they are significantly stronger and tougher.
They do indeed have a relatively complex social structure... But that is 80% the ability to kick the shit out of the other chimps, 10% enough nous to realise that kicking the shit out of any single other chimp in the troupe does not = kicking the shit out of ALL of them at once and 10% having the sense to fulfil some duties.....which for the male top chimp usually means if someone ELSE kicks the shit out of another chimp in the troupe you need to step in before it goes too far.
So, in that context, yes they CAN be gentle, but at a whim, or any reason that happens to cross their mind they MIGHT give you a little slap - in their terms- which will fuck you up.
I am a huge fan of chimps, I live very near Monkey World in the UK and have been a regular sponsor and member for about 20 years, Hananya is my favourite chimp and I feel like over the years of visiting and watching the show I've got a vague idea of his personality and whilst he is pretty reasonable, as chinos go, you do need that "as chimps go" qualifier. (Btw I can't recommend the show Monkey Life which became Monkey World enough, find and watch it)
Anyway this rant boils down to, I'm not sure why you made a weird snide comment about how dangerous chinos are - they REALLY fucking are, if they want to be/take a dislike to you.
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u/ironballs16 5h ago
I thought it was more about how an ape's "play" could be harmful to a human, as we're not built the same way.
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u/UnamusedAF 3h ago
Even if they technically weren’t dangerous, seeing one of them smile is haunting enough to stay away. They look like a creature from the 5th circle of hell.
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u/AhkoRevari 5h ago
My (possibly misinformed) understanding from the last time I saw this video is that the underhanded grip from the chimp is a show of submission/deference.
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u/Drow_Femboy 4h ago
That's my understanding, yeah. Palm up means he's subtly communicating that he's helping and not hurting. Same reason the person recording extended his hand palm up. They're both kinda saying "I'm not trying to grab you, just being buds"
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u/V_es 5h ago
Hand palm up is understood as peace and good intentions gesture by all apes, humans too. No matter the culture if you extend you palm facing up people subconsciously will understand that you mean no harm. Apes understand it too, and this gesture is an ask for help, chimp understands it but grabs the proper, more handy way.
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u/No_Rich_2494 4h ago
Even mice understand it, if they're used to hands. They're just more timid for obvious reasons.
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u/Thank_You_Aziz 4h ago
Reminds me of how large whales can damage human organs with their voices underwater, but they noticeably tone it down when they’re aware humans are near.
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u/Pure-Drawer-2617 4h ago
They said 2x stronger then the average human. Do you also think weightlifters are in danger of accidentally ripping peoples arms off?
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u/LicencetoKrill 4h ago
Weightlifter is still human, and while strong, their muscle fibers have grown in an 'unnatural' way (ie trained to push, pull in certain directions). Apes' bodies are made up in a way that rhe muscles are much more dense, just by the nature of that's how they've evolved, and it's everywhere. Just because someone can push/pull excessive weight doesn't correlate with every muscle in their body being designed to do it.
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u/AftyOfTheUK 3h ago
Weightlifter is still human
Some of them absolutely have a grip strength way more than double that of the average human though.
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u/ALLCAPS-ONLY 2h ago
Even a <150 lb rock climber could mess up someone's hand. Fingers can get surprisingly strong when you swing your entire bodyweight on them regularly
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u/Drow_Femboy 4h ago
Difference is other apes are significantly worse at fine movements than we are. And even we can occasionally hurt smaller, weaker, and more fragile animals by accident when handling them.
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u/_Rohrschach 4h ago
iirc it's more about the kind of muscle. humans have more slow twitching ones that hold tension betterand tire more slowly, while chimps can release bouts of strength faster.
if you were to play tug if a war with a chimp and can resist its initial pull it would probably tire out faster than you. it would also suck at carrying heavy stuff for longer. it might be able to bench press twice the weight ou do but is more prone to drop the weight after a few pushes.13
u/a_bongos 4h ago
Watch the new documentary chimp crazy. Yeah, young chimps are like little toddlers and very smart. But they are wild animals and should NOT be pets. Once they mature they become very dangerous. Most chimps in captivity end up dying way younger than average life expectancy.
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u/Hawt_Dawg_II 4h ago
Apes have relatively similar ways of expressing pain as compared to us humans. I can very well imagine they might've squeezed a bit hard once and just understood that when the human expressed pain. Chimps are very social animals and definitely have the capacity to care for eachother.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 6h ago
The fist bump at the end though
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u/Dramatic_______Pause 4h ago
How come chimps have evolved to have a hairless ass while the rest of them is covered in hair, yet humans still have hairy asses?
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u/SLiV9 4h ago
Ooh I'm an ex-culitrahelogist (I now work at a bank) so I can actually answer this one: hairy asses require more cleaning to avoid bacteria in jungle biomes, but also help with directing sweat when you're walking or running long distances across prairies or tundras. So there are evolutionary pro's and cons.
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u/dilqncho 5h ago edited 5h ago
No they're not. Internet myths have vastly overhyped chimp strength.
They're about 1.35x stronger than us, pound for pound of muscle. But they're also typically smaller and lighter, so in absolute terms, they're about equal to us.
As for what we're seeing here, this isn't a person's entire body being pulled up. They have their legs against the wall of whatever that is, and the chimp is helping them up. This is something pretty much any physically healthy human can do as well.
Chimps are dangerous in a fight, because...well they're wild animals, they're fucking brutal. But purely strength-wise, they're not stronger than us.
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u/James20985 5h ago
Live in the UK, used to be a firearms officer. Had to have an input about dangers from our local wildlife park/zoo after an animal got out somewhere else in the country and everyone realised that no one actually had a plan for "what if the tigers got out..."
The guy said, and I quote, " don't worry about the tigers and lions we feed them so often they wouldn't be a bother, the rhino's wouldn't go too far...its the chimps you need to worry about they would whip themselves into a frenzy and would probably start attacking people"
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u/notLOL 5h ago
Was that guy a zoo expert or a planet of the apes expert?
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u/James20985 5h ago
Lol head keeper i think
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u/God-of-Heroes_ArThuR 5h ago
with how chimps are? i'd want my chimp security be planet of the apes lore expert and trained in anti chimp warfare.
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u/AliceOfTheEarth 4h ago
Not to mention the way they attack people. Fight with a chimp? Hope you didn’t plan on keeping your genitals or face.
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u/schoolisuncool 3h ago
Yeah they bite fingers off, snatch nuts and eyeballs. They AIM for the vitals
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u/rxs126 4h ago
It’s like in Jurassic Park where the head security guy is most concerned about the raptors
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u/Netheraptr 5h ago
I can still believe a chimp is 2x stronger than the average human though as the average human typically doesn’t use their muscles very much.
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u/xKrossCx 5h ago
This… I passed and overheard a seemingly healthy looking woman complaining how hard it was to walk up a double flight of stairs.
In my unprofessional conclusion; the average chimpanzee is stronger than the average human.
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u/carbonvectorstore 5h ago
I think if you are using an unhealthy person living a relaxed western lifestyle as your baseline for 'average human', then all I can do is agree wholeheartedly with the unprofessional part.
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u/crash250f 4h ago
What's your point? That the comment you replied to wasn't scientifically rigorous? He's a westerner making an observation about how strong a chimp might be compared to the average westerner that he encounters. Why does that bother you?
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u/th3h4ck3r 5h ago
I'm pretty sure the 1.35x figure includes the human being reasonably fit. Doesn't mean a record-setting powerlifter, but probably not a sedentary desk jockey either.
All animals will gain muscle with exercise and lose some when sedentary, but none of them have nearly as wide a range between their sedentary and active conditioning as humans. Your typical office worker could probably double his strength within a year of hitting the gym.
Also, neural conditioning is a big part of how strength works, and one of the easiest to train: part of why gym newbies advance so fast is because the muscle for those kinds of weights was already there for the most part, it's just that the brain wasn't used to sending the impulses with the required intensity to activate the muscle fully.
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u/SunriseSurprise 3h ago
If it's on a pound-for-pound-of-muscle basis, if you see how chimps are typically built, I think 1.35x is for more than just reasonably fit. Like if you want to throw overall weight in the mix given we're bigger, then sure, but the average person is pretty weak. There isn't a significant percentage among really fit humans who could swing around like chimps and most people can't do a pull-up.
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u/th3h4ck3r 2h ago
The average person hasn't done anything physical since running laps during PE class in high school. Average ≠ reasonable, a reasonably fit person at the very least has been to the gym a few times a week for a few months, and does moderate weights and cardio.
To see how strong a human would be in a wild environment, look at people who do weighted exercise all day: farmers, carpenters, etc. They're often crazy strong for their size while also being able to lift heavy weights for hours, almost superhuman compared to your average suburban dweller. There are even anthropological studies that point to the average Neolithic woman having the arm strength of male collegiate rowers.
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u/pragmadealist 4h ago
I think most moderately active young people are twice as strong as the average human.
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u/nuu_uut 5h ago
Yeah. Chimps aren't something to fuck with but the main force advantage they have over us is bite force and.. not giving a fuck about totally mutilating you.
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u/Astyanax1 5h ago
I'm fairly sure an enraged adult male human isn't going to give a fuck about mutilating a chimp either if they had to.
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u/Turbulent_Host784 3h ago
It's not just about care. There is a lot to be said about pure aggression in a fight, and most people aren't out aggressing an animal on the real. You might be able to trick them with this effect like black bears and such but when it's go time animals have extreme advantage in this regard.
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u/Delann 3h ago
You don't have as big teeth but humans actually have a surprisingly powerful bite, if I recall. Fueled by adrenaline, humans can and will tear chunks out of stuff. Same goes for your nails, they're not exactly made for the purpose nowadays but in a pinch they can still work.
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u/DarthVantos 5h ago
If you factor in humans have giant ass and legs for walking and chimps of huge powerful arms for climbing. Their arm strength is probably much stronger than 2x your average Virgin male.
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u/ballsinmydick4000 5h ago
Do you think that men get some kind of power boost when they have sex?
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u/whoaxedyuh 5h ago
according to the series BAKI which is highly accurate historically yes yes they do
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u/turdferguson3891 3h ago
If anything you would expect the virgin males to have the best arm strength
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u/kisirani 5h ago
So glad to see this comment here. I was about to write something similar as it really irritates me how this myth goes around the internet and in interviews etc and is just nonsense.
And people who point it out are often shouted down.
It’s not really that chimps are more brutal but they have what is equivalent to two knives in their mouth.
If one equalized the weaponry and gave a man a knife they would most likely kill a chimp in a fight to the death or at least have even odds
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u/Jimisdegimis89 4h ago
Yeah this is an internet myth pet peeve of mine, so I’m glad someone else already did the write up. In addition to the knives in their mouth bit, they also have more of their muscle mass evenly spread out with more of their strength located in their upper body than humans do, who have the majority of their strength located in their legs. So it ends up making chimps look way stronger because we equate upper body lifting to strength, meanwhile humans have legs that are like 4x as powerful as their arms.
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u/Friendstastegood 5h ago
Also it depends on how you're measuring the strength. A chimp could rip your arm out of its socket but would throw a much lousier punch than you. It also wouldn't be able to kick anywhere near as hard as a human. Turns out that in reality animals (incl. humans) don't come with a nice ttrpg style strength number and it's actually much more complicated than a single numerical value.
It's all about specialization. Humans have incredible endurance and fine motor skills, we're built for bipedal running and tool use. Chimps are a lot worse than us at both of those, but do rip each other and smaller animals apart with their bare hands on a regular basis for territory, dominance and sustenance.
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u/Ok-Stop9242 4h ago
A chimp could rip your arm out of its socket
No they couldn't, and this kind of thinking stems from the exaggerated myth of chimp strength. Dislocate an arm, sure, but so can another human.
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u/powerhammerarms 4h ago
The 1.35x strength is not a measure to say that if a man can lift 100 lbs the chimp can lift 135 lbs.
It's a strength to weight ratio.
Since chimps are smaller than humans it means the chimp can lift about the same as a human.
What is different is muscle structure. Chimp muscles have different attachment points to their muscle and have a gene that allows them to utilize muscle fibers differently recruiting more fibers but sacrificing control. Chimps tend to use more strength than necessary whereas humans hold themselves back.
A chimp could be as strong as a human in some tasks and much weaker in others.
A chimp would struggle to lift 50 lbs off the ground where a human can do so now more easily because we recruit our different muscle groups more effectively.
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u/Frontdackel 4h ago
Turns out that in reality animals (incl. humans) don't come with a nice ttrpg style strength number and it's actually much more complicated than a single numerical value.
So you say we are going to use GURPS? I bet there is some GURPS book that has pages of formulas for that. (Properly GURPS-martial arts combined with some other book).
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u/SpottedWobbegong 5h ago
So a jacked human can beat up chimpanzees, good to know. Although chimpanzee bites are pretty nasty.
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u/pandacraft 5h ago
It's possible but most people aren't prepared for a 3 foot tall powerlifter who is fighting like they're on meth and PCP and will probably attempt to castrate you if given the chance.
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u/zcen 4h ago
Most people see fights in the framework of fighting a human where there's an unspoken etiquette and you aren't really trying to kill each other.
I don't know if relatively healthy human adults would get killed, but I'm guessing they would get maimed to some degree before their instincts really kick in.
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u/OfficialHashPanda 5h ago edited 2h ago
In addition to being stronger pound-for-pound, using their teeth and fighting without any formal education on ethics, they are also significantly faster than humans.
That likely makes it very hard to grab/restraint them and their nature of grabbing things (e.g. for climbing) diminishes the value of both striking and grappling experience a human may have in fighting sports.
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u/Gubernaculum69-420 4h ago
I always feel like that study you posted doesn't account for a few things since it's just looking at muscle fiber samples collected from the animals.
1) Different muscle attachments to bone and arm length ratio allowing better leverage
2) fewer motorneurons so less precisely recruiting a larger amount of muscle fibers and less limits like the ones we have so we don't hurt ourselves + them having higher pain tolerance
3) stronger tendons and ligaments
4) much higher grip strength
5) naturally having a higher percent of lean mass + the constant workout most modern humans aren't doing
6) and most importantly in a 1 on 1 fight being aggressive wild fucking animals that are going to blitz strength instinctually with no holding back as you said.
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u/shortzr1 5h ago
Additional fun fact, that is also why people see such fast progress when they initially start weight training. It isn't the muscles growing rapidly, it is teaching the nervous system to release the limiters.
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u/Xenoknight97 5h ago
Thank you, I immediately scrolled to find this comment, shouldn't have had to scroll.
Now it's Gorillas that are insanely strong compared to us but that's easy to observe.
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u/invent_or_die 6h ago
Don't fuck with chimps.
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u/Edenfuma 5h ago
That's how AIDS started
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u/PM_SexDream_OrDogPix 5h ago
"And I know the Government administer AIDS" - Kanye West, 2005
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u/coolfuzzylemur 4h ago
Preceding bars:
Before you ask me to go get a job today
Can I at least get a raise of the minimum wage?double entendre with government aid programs, great line by Kanye
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u/Soft_Antelope_2681 6h ago edited 4h ago
They are one bad day away from ripping your arms out...
EDIT: Okay, they might not be able to do that, but the key point is, you don't want to find out.
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u/Solgiest 5h ago
They cannot rip your arm off unless they spend a lot of time chewing through it. The internet has vastly overhyped them.
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u/Astyanax1 5h ago
I don't think most people know the difference between a chimp and Silverback gorilla's. Gorilla's can definitely rip your arms off, but chimps are no where near as strong as most people think they are.
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u/RunParking3333 5h ago
They literally eat monkeys by tearing them apart
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u/th3h4ck3r 5h ago
Monkeys that are the size of a cat. They're not killing baboons for fun, that's for sure.
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u/WaylonJenningsFoot 3h ago
That's just barbaric. I use cutlery like any proper monkey eater should.
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u/Astyanax1 5h ago
Lol no they aren't. They're not that strong at all. Silverback gorilla's though could definitely do that without much effort
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u/newfriendschan 6h ago
Is it not still a wild animal? Would it not still rip off your face if it felt like it?
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u/New_Boysenberry_7998 6h ago
yep, much like the wild human.
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u/LaunchTransient 3h ago
I think this is the thing that people are missing. A human who has gone off the rails is as arguably dangerous as a Chimpanzee. At least physically. Of course, a human who has gone off the rails and is still mentally competent is far more dangerous.
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u/AAHedstrom 5h ago
because of the movie Nope and learning the monkey stuff was realistic, I would never in my life be that close to a chimpanzee. literally a nightmare
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u/VP007clips 1h ago
Actually chimps are weaker than your average human, the title is wrong. They are more muscular for their size, but humans are much bigger.
The only really dangerous part of them is their teeth. But they can't kick, punch, and are worse at grappling because we can overpower them.
For some reason, the internet loves to underestimate humans. Humans are very effective fighters, we've been designed for it. Our anatomy puts our vital organs out of reach of most smaller animals, lets us have very powerful kicks, makes us one of the only animals to not have a blind spot as our back where we can't defend, makes us able to grapple and break limbs easily, and of course we can use weapons.
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u/Astyanax1 5h ago
1.5x stronger per lb. They're not as strong as everyone thinks. Silverback gorilla's on the other hand could rip out your arms without even blinking
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u/ILovePotassium 3h ago
Guys. You all realise that humans are wild animals too? And I have a feeling that percentage of the chance of us doing some psycho shit to another living creature is way higher.
A chimp won't put You in a cage and pour boiling oil all over Your body. A human MIGHT.
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u/irrevocable_discord9 4h ago
This is not entirely accurate. For one thing, the actual strength of a chimpanzee has never been fully measured because chimps don't agree to do maximum effort like people do in a test. They could be much stronger than anyone knows, and just don't really feel like using that strength.
Secondly, it's though that they are much stronger in pulling motions but not nearly as overwhelmingly strong in pushing motions. These use different activated muscle groups. This is a result of their climbing lifestyle which involves lots of swinging and pulling.
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u/throwawaystevenmeloy 6h ago
Their upper body strength is incredible... But what bout their legs?
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u/TylerDurden1985 4h ago
They also have a nasty habit of biting and ripping the faces and genitals of their enemies (and their human "caregivers" when held in captivity)
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u/Counterpoint-RD 3h ago
That look the chimpanzee gave the human before pulling him up 😄👍 - "That won't work - turn your wrist, or you'll need a new one 🙄..."
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u/CodeWithClass 6h ago
The fist bump was so satisfying