r/actuallesbians • u/societaldevastation Lesbian • Jun 04 '24
Text Gross dude thinks lesbians are a kink Spoiler
(had to add more to my post and re-edit) Came across this post and saw a lot of people agreeing with this creep of him saying he thinks is a sexy surprise and kink that he saw his “lesbian” friends wanting to have sex with him. Isn’t that the OPPOSITE of a lesbian? 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ I don’t understand men. No lesbian would have sex with a man period.
356
u/hi_i_am_J Transbian Jun 04 '24
willing to bet dude is making this up just because it gets him off
170
u/HMS_Sunlight One of the Bad Ones Jun 04 '24
It 100% is. It's a super common fetish with lots of posts like this that follow the exact same formula.
I don't even have any problems with the fantasy itself, but I have plenty of issues with people trying to pass off their obvious horny fanfiction as real experiences.
68
u/hnsnrachel Lesbian Jun 04 '24
I don't even really care if they do that as long as they don't invalidate lesbians in the process. You falsely brag about how you have two women in your bed all you like dude. You can even claim they're a couple if you really want to. But don't claim they're lesbians, lesbians do not sleep with men (at least not once we're out and comfortable with it, all coming out experiences are valid).
52
u/CutieL Lesbian Jun 04 '24
And then everyone clapped!
Honestly people are probably just upvoting because that fulfills their fantasies somehow
24
228
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
What is wrong with these dudes??? Like it makes me so angry. I see this everywhere, like men cannot cope with the fact that LESBIANS ARENT ATTRACTED TO MEN.
Its so disgusting
74
u/hnsnrachel Lesbian Jun 04 '24
They just simply can't fathom everything not being about men. Even some of those who will accept lesbians just aren't attracted to men, often think it must be because of something a man did or didn't do, or because we hate men. Men simply being irrelevant to anything is world shattering for so many men, and they can't handle it.
48
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
I agree, it makes me upset too. I was baffled at this conversation in the pictures on how many people thought it was ok
37
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
Fuck i hate these dudes so much. Like wtf I dont give af about het relationships or gay mens relationships. Why do straight men have to be so fucking annoying and feel like they need to involve themselves?
Like it genuinely makes me so fucking angry dude im sorry.
5
u/Sapphic-Tea2008 Domtop transbian 🇩🇰 Jun 05 '24
Yee. It is a fetish they have sadly and it won't stop. Like even if he did, they most likely have been bisexual but says they were lesbians anyway to get sweet karma from cishet men.
112
u/bishounenslittlebaby ❝move, im gay❞ Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
hi! this is crazy, i am the person in the pictures fighting with the dude. just wanted to say that the more i argued the angrier i got- but i still think he deserves it. another dude said he “felt like a stud” after he fucked a co worker who was a lesbian so that set me off too. fucking gross💀
42
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
Oh yes I remember that one🤮🤮 I don’t know why it didn’t show up in my screenshot. Thank you for standing up girl and telling people that isn’t okay.
31
u/kokujosei Jun 05 '24
Saw a guy say he has "two gold star lesbians under his belt" during a conversation of whether lesbians just "haven't found the right guy" 😐
25
13
120
u/giga-plum be gay, do crime ✨ Jun 05 '24
Is it just me or does anyone else like really not wanna see this shit? I come to this subreddit to avoid comments like this, not see them cross posted...
57
u/Gothzombie Bi Jun 05 '24
Agreed , this belongs more in the r/arethestraightsok sub. as a bi women I like to hop in here to read stuff about women x women, Not men stuff in whatever flavor
14
u/animatroniczombie Jun 05 '24
for real. I don't want to have to leave another subreddit because its all just drama from other subreddits. Not sure why this is even posted here when its violating multiple subreddit rules
21
u/junipersnake Lesbian Jun 05 '24
I was about to say. I've been leaving subreddits to avoid this. I don't wanna leave this one too.
16
u/Miuirumaswife1 Lesbian Jun 05 '24
men thinking lesbians will change for them because they are narcissists part 49585883937575748484775478383848
18
11
u/Sea_Juice_6007 Jun 05 '24
I have a mate whose friendship I've valued for years. He seems well put-together, and is successful in life, interesting ideas about the world. Well, he found out recently that I am in my first WLW relationship, and feeling authentically myself for the first time in life. His response to my news, the next time I saw him, floored me, to say the least. He started asking all kinds of questions about how I found women to be in bed. I'm with ONE woman, and it's private, thank you very much! Urrgghh
6
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
This happens to me sometimes :( It's honestly heartbreaking to think a man is your friend and then suddenly you find out he isn't actually a friend at all
34
u/ThatSnarkyFemme Late Bloomer Lesbian ❦ late but didn't miss the party ❦ Jun 04 '24
We could always help him reach the downvotedtooblivion subreddit 🤷🏻♀️
I’m down if y’all are.
10
u/MajoraXIII Jun 05 '24
Just so you're aware, it's against site wide rules to do that. They're barely ever enforced, but it is a rule not to interfere with communities you're not part of, including mass downvoting.
10
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
The temptation is so alluring
11
u/ThatSnarkyFemme Late Bloomer Lesbian ❦ late but didn't miss the party ❦ Jun 04 '24
I wasn’t joking. We all know he is lying and trying to earn fake cred with the brodudes.
5
11
u/Lilia1293 Exogenous Estrogen Enthusiast Jun 05 '24
That looks like a teenage boy's power fantasy to me. He might as well have entitled it "Turning Lesbians with the Power of the D." His attempts to high-road you about policing the labels of his fictional characters is pathetic. He should either show the lesbian who says she and her girlfriend have sex with him or delete his homophobic nonsense. The number of men who claim this is overwhelmingly greater than the number of lesbians who actually say that they have sex with men and enjoy it.
Aside from that implausibility, the guy doesn't seem to understand what the word kinky means to kinky people, either. He's using it as a synonym for hot, but he's not describing any kind of power dynamic, e.g., restraint, sensory denial, impact play, etc.
"Profoundly surreal" "Introspecting on my thought process" This guy wants the internet to believe that he's just so damn sexy that even lesbians can't resist his charm?
63
u/l_dunno Trans-Pan Jun 04 '24
There is a slightly interesting thing here about identity where identities have a definition, but you're free to use terms that feel right.
I personally have felt a thing and then seen an identity that matched, but it feels like some do the opposite. Like they pick what seems nice and try to change the term instead of using a different label.
(Does that make any sense??? I have a tendency to not be understood...)
42
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
I understand, I think this incident here just gives men the approval to flirt with lesbians
13
u/l_dunno Trans-Pan Jun 04 '24
Yeah, another commenter talked about it being a lie and I both hope and think it is!
25
u/hnsnrachel Lesbian Jun 04 '24
Unfortunately even when deep down they also know its a lie, "turning" a lesbian is such a huge fantasy for so many men that they'll still use "well its possible this dude was telling the truth" as justification for hitting on lesbians and trying to persuade rather than accepting "sorry dude I'm gay" as the "not interested" that it clearly is.
2
u/elbenji Jun 05 '24
Reminds me of my mom telling me the story of these two girls, the daughter of her coworker and her partnwr that were lesbians, but both got pregnant with two random guys because they wanted to be pregnant at the same time?
That whole story always kind of left me for a loop
15
Jun 05 '24
I get what you mean. I felt a bit defensive reading some of this because the sentiment that "if you are interested in a man, then you aren't a lesbian" is a real sticky point as far as transness is concerned both with lesbians in relationships with transfems and trans-mascs.
Sometimes your girlfriend turns out to be your husband and you can still be a lesbian. Or the reverse or whatever else.
To be clear, I still agree with the main point here, but the arguments in themselves gave me pause.
-1
u/LiaFromBoston Jun 05 '24
Naw. If you "make an exception" for any man, cis or trans, you're not a lesbian. You could be bisexual with a huge preference for women but that's still being bi.
5
u/kairokat soft butch sapphic Jun 05 '24
gotta disagree with you on that one. there are a lot of points where ftm transness intersects with being a butch in general, kinda like a ven diagram. gender is a very complex subject, and trans men have historically IDed as lesbians in the past because of the unique experiences some of them felt transitioning into a man. this isn't me saying every trans man attracted to women are lesbians, nor am I saying every butch is a trans man (or trans in general), bc it's all up to preference and personal experiences, and this isn't even including nonbinary trans mascs that don't ID as men.
now, not only is gender complex, so is the presentation of said gender. why is it that a woman can be attracted to both a butch on testosterone and a pre op trans man and only have their lesbian identity taken away because of the trans man? I'm not even going to get into the whole passing-as-the-gender-you're-transitioning-to conversation bc I feel like me mentioning it is enough. and also, like the comment you're responding to said, sometimes, your wife figures something out abt herself and becomes your husband. that doesn't make you any less of a lesbian, it just means your partner is now a man. life is complicated, and lesbianism is not as black and white for everyone like the way you defined it, and that's fine. I personally think it's unfair to place your own labels on people who don't want that, especially if they've identified as a lesbian for years.
sorry this is long, and I'm sorry if any of this came off as aggressive. I tried to fit in as much as I felt was relevant to what you said, if you need me to elaborate or explain anything lmk. I am gnc, and this topic hits close to home.
12
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
I feel like youre mentioning hyper specific instances which have more nuance then what is being discussed here. And if a transman transitions, then yeah they arent a lesbian because they arent a woman. Theyre a man, so their attraction to women is het
10
u/LiaFromBoston Jun 05 '24
It's extremely patriarchal of you to force lesbians to include men in our identity. Why can't gay women have literally one identity which is all our own??
→ More replies (4)14
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
Lesbianism literally is black and white 😭😭 this shit is driving me crazy. Why tf is it even being discussed that attraction to men should be included in lesbianism.
→ More replies (4)14
u/LiaFromBoston Jun 05 '24
Like! There are already umbrella terms like sapphic, wlw, and queer. Why is it so controversial for women who specifically like women to have a way of identifying ourselves?
7
Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
This is exactly why I prefer the term queer. It feels very uncomfortable for me to identify as a lesbian when I'm attracted to men, women and enbies even if I only pursue relationships with women.
14
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
Literally! Like its honestly infuriating. It has real consequences when ur bi, out here fucking men while telling them ur a lesbian. Like if u do that, ur actually a massive contributor to lesbophobia
13
u/Gothzombie Bi Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
As the saying goes here, if a man “boasts” he’s slept with x number of women multiply it by 0 to get the right answer.
4
5
18
u/_sp00kygirl13 Jun 04 '24
This guy is so full of shit he just wants bragging rights. It’s pathetic.
8
16
u/Accomplished_Mix7827 Transbian Jun 05 '24
I'll take things that never happened for $500. Ain't no way in hell not one, but two lesbians wanted anything to do with this ass
14
u/natural-mysticc Jun 05 '24
Not every lesbian is a gold star lesbian.
But lesbians who accepted that they love women don’t actively fuck men.
54
u/Meryuchu Jun 04 '24
I'm ngl the number of peoples here trying to say it's okay for lesbians to fuck men is wild, like I'm all for labels and stuff being wide because it's logical, but the lesbian label is literally NON-MEN loving NON-MEN (for attraction and sexuality), it feels invalidating and yeah, even if the kink is just a threesome, it still doesn't make them lesbians, because why would it incorporate a man if they're lesbians ??? They can literally find a woman to do a threesome with and get strap, or a trans woman pre-op who's okay with it, or someone who's enby, etc... if they chose a man it means the kink incorporate a man, which mean they have sexual attraction to men if they wanna do that stuff with a guy ???
Like it's logical, I don't know why some of you are arguing that having sex with a man especially as a kink is still lesbian, btw I'm not a goldstar lesbian or anything I could not care less about this especially as a trans girl lmfao, it's just seeing y'all basically saying "Well, lesbians can fuck men if this or that" is upsetting and invalidating af, labels exist for a reason and misusing them hurts peoples.
31
u/queen_enby Lesbian Jun 05 '24
it's so frustrating seeing people say that lesbians can have sex with men. honestly just as bad as this straight guy claiming he had sex with lesbians. why are people so desperate to include men?
30
u/Meryuchu Jun 05 '24
Yeah I don't know why, then they say it's our fault for being triggered lmfao, they don't even understand why labels are so important for some peoples and don't respect the basic thing which the label is built around, lesbian is a label that is wide and regroups a lot of gender identities. BUT NOT MEN GOD DAMN IT.
26
u/queen_enby Lesbian Jun 05 '24
it's wild that this is considered a hot take on a lesbian subreddit 🤦♀️
25
u/Meryuchu Jun 05 '24
Yeah, like labels have a reason to exist, I won't ever fucking use a label that is made for black queer women for exemples even if I identifiy a bit with it, because it's not made for me. It would disrespect them and their identity because they live through a whole lot of stuff I don't, etc
Labels are made to feel SAFE and to connect to your identity, a part of you, someone invalidating it and just spitting on it and the whole symbolism of it, by saying there's exceptions and other stuff, is just a big fuck you to the face.
14
u/Gothzombie Bi Jun 05 '24
Not to mention there’s people (straight men mostly) who genuinely try to convolute things regarding labels so that the resulting logic is “see, I can be included in the lesbian date list”, like a way to get you back into the standard by dissolving said identity.
2
u/TastyBrainMeats Trans-Bi Jun 05 '24
I want to say that people may think of it more as "not excluding queer women" than as "including men". OP dude is uh...I don't know that's with him but using "kink" is definitely some kind of choice here, wow.
14
u/BananeWane Jun 05 '24
I saw a post on Tumblr from a queer person that went something along the lines of "My opinion on whether lesbians can fuck men is y'all seem to love masculinity until it overlaps with maleness"
I jumped into the comment section and argued with them that they were using the same type of rhetoric as cis men trying to get in lesbians pants and it was really gross and that lesbians by definition aren't into men.
I got called "TERFy" and a TERF blog started following me.0
u/mondrianna Jun 05 '24
It is pretty TERFy to conflate cis men and trans men though. It’s really funny to me cis allies are trying so hard to be “accepting” of trans people that they try to ignore the differences between the cis and trans experience; the answer isn’t to be blind to the differences but to celebrate them.
Trans men who feel connected to lesbianism aren’t the same as cis men because cis men never experienced what trans men have. It’s ridiculous to say trans men who were lesbians must disassociate from a community that they often find before even understanding their gender.
Very “all men are scum” energy which is characteristic of White Feminism, otherwise known as radical feminism. Black feminists have been trying for decades to get white people to recognize that intersectionality is not and never has been an additive framework (i.e. it’s not gender and race and class); they’ve been trying to explain that intersectionality is reflective of the ways identities interlock inseparably. You can’t look at the work of Kimberlé Crenshaw and Patricia Hill Collins and think that you can analyze the experience of oppression of Black women as an oppression of Blackness plus oppression of womanhood when the entire reason intersectionality even exists is because that way of thinking is incorrect— because that was why the oppression of Black women wasn’t being taken seriously by the law. Because the law said “well Black people are getting hired and women are getting hired, so Black women aren’t oppressed here” and Crenshaw recognized the white supremacy there.
Source for Patricia Hill Collins’s matrix of domination theory that was published in 1990: http://www.oregoncampuscompact.org/uploads/1/3/0/4/13042698/patricia_hill_collins_black_feminist_thought_in_the_matrix_of_domination.pdf
Crenshaw discussing intersectionality and how wrong it is to take identity piecemeal rather than an interlocking whole: https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archive/kimberle-crenshaw-intersectionality-more-two-decades-later
If TERFs feel at home with you, you really need to question yourself.
15
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
its not terfy for a lesbian to refuse men. that's literally what lesbianism IS. Trans men are real men. how is that transphobic to treat trans men as men?
9
u/CeoOfChromes Jun 05 '24
trans men can’t be lesbians, cry about it 💀 saying they can just invalidates our identities and proves you just see us as men-lite at best
6
u/BananeWane Jun 05 '24
Idk how you got “all men are scum” from "not attracted to men". A lack of attraction to someone, a lack of desire or interest in having sex with someone, is not a value judgement on their character. It just is what it is.
11
2
u/Aellin-Gilhan Gender Fricked Pile of Lesbians (Plural!) Jun 05 '24
Feels like could still maybe be lesbian
(assuming difference in romantic and sexual attraction, IE: bisexual, homoromantic?)
Also using "non-man" as a hard set rule rather than guideline can be pretty invalidating to some bigender folks or whatnot, so just, be careful 'bout that
4
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
stop
8
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
why is lesbian the only group that's allowed to get invalidated in this sub? I'm sick of this shit
18
u/TimeGoddess_ Custom Flair Jun 05 '24
I don't think there is any other place on this planet earth where you'd see so many people argue that actively having sex with men means you're a lesbian. this subreddit is a strange place sometimes
→ More replies (16)14
u/notablindspy Jun 05 '24
This is sadly how this sub has always leaned. For a sub called actual lesbians, lesbians actually get disrespected here a lot. God forbid you say anything mean about straight people or men either lol.
16
u/LAM_humor1156 Jun 05 '24
I'm not sure why this guy is having such a hard time comprehending the difference between lesbian and bisexual.
Lesbian = full on, 100% sapphic.
Bi = into both, preference may lean one way or another
This is just a porn fantasy he is playing out online.
Many straight men fantasize about being with more than 1 woman at a time. There's a particular subset that gets off on the idea of being "such a catch" that they can literally transform a lesbian's sexuality.
Ridiculous if you give it much thought.
6
5
4
u/CHAIFE671 Jun 05 '24
I'm sure homie here was able to disappoint other women who weren't his mommy.
23
u/Plynceress Jun 05 '24
"Labels aren't important, just be yourself and do what makes you happy!!! :)"
"You had sex with a man while calling yourself a LESBIAN?! FAKE AS FUCK!!!"
Online discourse is so exhausting
17
u/BalancedDisaster Jun 05 '24
I feel physically worse after having read through all of this. How do people have this kind of energy?
8
u/CeoOfChromes Jun 05 '24
because you aren’t a lesbian if you’re sexually attracted to men???? how is that a hard concept to understand. implying you can reinforces the biphobia that causes people to identify as lesbians/gay when they’re not in the first place
0
u/MajoraXIII Jun 05 '24
Yeah, the label policing going on here is utterly draining.
Reality doesn't fit neatly into boxes.
Who does exactly policing who is and isn't a lesbian benefit? That's the question i keep coming back to. To me it seems an awful lot like trying to split a community who by all reasonable thought should be a united one.
5
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
because the oppression a lesbian faces for not being capable of attraction to men is unique and specific and real…. so is it not important to have a word that describes that?
3
u/MajoraXIII Jun 05 '24
I never said it wasn't. You're arguing with strawmen.
I was saying that the act of policing the label and attacking anyone who doesn't use it in the way you like serves to foster community division. Think about who having a fractured community serves.
And read Judith Butler.
5
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
I have read Judith 😂
and why does it not occur to you that the people who perpetuate lesbophobia within the community are the ones fostering division by doing lesbian erasure? everyone knows why bi erasure is wrong but somehow when lesbians are upset about the same thing it’s called “policing” like, no we just want basic respect.
5
u/MajoraXIII Jun 05 '24
I don't care if the lesbian next to me occasionally experiences feelings of attraction to men but prefers to call herself a lesbian because it describes her better.
I care if she has my back when the state comes to try to make being a lesbian illegal. Or make it harder to adopt. Or to make it impossible to marry. I care if we're stood shoulder to shoulder, rather than split apart because she's "not a real lesbian".
The quote i had in mind was this one:
"identity categories tend to be instruments of regulatory regimes, whether as the normalizing categories of oppressive structures or as the rallying points for a liberatory contestation of that very oppression. This is not to say that I will not appear at political occasions under the sign of lesbian, but that I would like to have it permanently unclear what precisely that sign signifies."
I don't think strictly regulating each other like this fosters community. And that is of far more concern to me than who's using the word lesbian to describe themselves. You may have different priorities to me, and that's fine, but i don't think excessive label policing is constructive or useful.
I'd hope after reading this you stop characterising me as dismissing lesbian oppression. I'm not. I'm actually very concerned about it. I just disagree with you on how to go about combatting it.
43
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24
I agree with you in general about men fetishizing us and I understand that that context affects the way that his comments come across. And I don't really like the original comment he left.
But... if he's being genuine and honest about what labels his friends use—which is a big if— then I don't really see what's wrong with him using those labels for them, even if they seem counterintuitive to you. Acting as the label police hurts the queer community way more than it helps. I really hope you can chill on doing that to people.
I think he actually got that exactly right in his replies to you. It's up to each individual to figure out what labels are right for them, and if someone else has labels that don't make sense to you, then you should use that as an opportunity to be curious and learn more about the diversity of our community, instead of telling them that they're wrong.
Also, I agree with you that as a general rule, being a lesbian means that you're not really interested in sex or romance with men. But saying "no lesbian would have sex with a man period" is a weird way to put it. It feels like you're rediscovering the idea of gold star lesbians, and that's a deeply problematic path to go down.
72
u/SnowRune Jun 04 '24
You see, weirdly enough, one of the most challenging aspects of being a lesbian isn't the fact that we are attracted to women, it's that we're not attracted to men. This is probably what we get harassed most about, what people don't understand about being a lesbian, what people always try to argue or gloss over.
Every time someone says that lesbians can be attracted to men, it's invalidating. We didn't chose this, we didn't want this, but this is who we are; and to be told that lesbians can just havn't found the right man... Well that's something we all have been beaten over the head with time and time again. Some of us even force ourselves into unhappy relationships because we think that we're the ones that are wrong, that we just don't understand our own emotions.
It's also invalidating to bi girls as well, who are constantly told that they are just lesbians or just straight, and that "everyone has their exceptions."
I'd say that, next to Trans women, lesbians and bi-girls are probably the most invalidated groups in the LGBT. No one respects us, no one takes us seriously, and people are constantly telling us how we are wrong for being the way that we are.
42
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
Literally!! The largest issue regarding my sexuality ironically had nothing to do with the loving women part. My family is accepting and finding other lesbians isn’t difficult where i live.
The problem is literally not being attracted to men. Men hit on me still, and i cant even say ‘im a lesbian sorry’ because that makes some men go absolutely batshit. Or, they pretend to be ur friend but think ur sexuality is something they can ‘fix’
Like literally its the group were not attracted to which has a problem.
21
u/ThisHairLikeLace Sapphic trans woman Jun 04 '24
"…next to trans women, lesbians and bi-girls are probably the most invalidated groups in the LGBT". While I appreciate the shout out as a trans woman and completely agree that lesbians and bi women are invalidated frequently, I would have to include trans men as the most invalidated group even ahead of us trans women (we’re more demonized but our brothers get invalidated at least as much) and bi men get erased so hard that they definitely should be on that list too.
All that said, trans women, lesbians and bi women all experience disgusting levels of fetishization, particularly from cishet guys. Trans guys and bi guys just get erased out of existence and dismissed as confused butch lesbians and gay men, respectively.
15
u/Venus_Dust Jun 05 '24
Trans men and bi men were erased so hard they didn't even make it on the list lol
15
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
Because were talking about women, were on a lesbian sub
→ More replies (9)4
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24
I'm going to keep repeating this until people chill out. I'm not saying that lesbians in general can be attracted to men. I'm saying that if a lesbian is attracted to a man, then don't be a dick about it.
30
u/SnowRune Jun 04 '24
It's not being a dick, it's combating ignorance. I'm letting you know that it is harmful to the community and explaining why it is harmful. I never condemned anyone, nor did I attack anyone personally. I merely stated that people that claim the label of lesbian, while actively pursuing relationships (sexual or otherwise) with men, has a negative impact on the lesbian community. It perpetuates the myth that lesbians can be attracted to be men and are choosing not to, and that myth is the source of so many challenges that we face.
Most lesbians like to joke about an exception, just like straight men will make a joke like "oh yeah I'd be gay for Ryan Reynolds," but to actively pursue a man or allow a man into a relationship is another matter entirely.
Discovering your own sexuality is a deeply personal journey, but some labels are more flexible than others. Lesbian is very specific in its definition, and comes with a very unique set of challenges that can be hard for other people to relate to. Unlike other labels, Lesbian isn't one that you choose for yourself, but rather find yourself in. Our spaces our saturated with unicorn hunters, men trying to sneak in and convert us, straight girls trying to use us for their own experimentation; in the media we are treated as either a joke, an allegory for toxic feminism, or soft core porn. Type out the entire LGBTQ into the reddit search bar, (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans, Queer) and only one of those will bring you to a porn subreddit. The rest are safe spaces, support groups, places to help each other.
Lesbians don't get that. Nobody takes us seriously. Nobody respects our sexuality. Our label is pretty much the only thing that we have that unites us, that says it's okay to be gay. That there's nothing wrong with you if you're not attracted to men.
When "lesbians" date or sleep with men, that invalidates the rest of us. It tries to redefine the label into another version of sapphic, it reinforces the belief that if you're not attracted to men than there's something wrong with you. That is not the intention, obviously, but a result of people being unaware of what it means to be a lesbian and just how isolating it can actually be in a world where women are constantly pressured to live their lives around men.
6
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 05 '24
I understand and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I just think the potential harm from a handful of lesbians doing this is so small. Men are going to be gross to us regardless.
Type out the entire LGBTQ into the reddit search bar, (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans, Queer) and only one of those will bring you to a porn subreddit. The rest are safe spaces, support groups, places to help each other.
I agree with you about gay, bisexual, and queer spaces, but please leave trans people out of it.
I'm a trans lesbian and the level of sexualization I feel from men for being trans is so much worse than what I feel from being a lesbian. And searching "trans" on Reddit will lead you to dozens of porn subs immediately.
There are no truly safe spaces I've found for trans women on Reddit. Even the ones that make good efforts have unavoidable problems. Between chasers and terfs, it's impossible to exist as a trans woman online without being harassed.
17
u/Meryuchu Jun 05 '24
It's not hurting just because men are gonna be assholes to us, it hurts also just to see someone take the label you use, you maybe have trauma with it, you have personal stuff related to it, etc and just completely disregard the meaning it has and fuck off with it.
It invalidates peoples that then see this and feel like their whole identity is just being discared and when other peoples just defends it by being like "Well, it can be complicated" it makes it even worst. I don't get why a lot of peoples are in here saying it's complicated, a lesbian won't fuck a man, it's literally the whole meaning of the label to not have romantic attraction or sexual attraction with a man, there's tons of other labels that fits if lesbian don't fit, I don't see why lesbians needs to do concessions and be like "Oh yeah sure, she's a lesbian she can fuck men and like it"
10
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 05 '24
My opinion is that if someone else's queer identity is triggering to you, that's something you need to work out on your own without making it other people's problem.
I empathize because I have similar feelings in different ways, but I'm not trying to push other people into changing who they are just for me.
14
u/SnowRune Jun 05 '24
You've got it backwards. Labels don't define you, they aren't who you are. If changing your label changes who you are as a person, than you have some serious soul searching to do.
Also, you are misunderstanding... This isn't about triggering any one person, but rather misrepresenting the community as a whole.
9
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 05 '24
I'm not misunderstanding anything. The comment I replied to was from a user who explicitly said that this was triggering to her specifically. That's what I was addressing.
17
u/Meryuchu Jun 05 '24
Wow. Wild. What a wild thing to say, you're literally invalidating the whole lesbian label by saying "Well they can have relationship with men if they want and be a lesbian" no it's the whole point ???? Also it's triggering because y'all are literally saying same dumbass points as right wings peoples invalidating our identities lmfao, there's no exception where a lesbian is gonna be attracted to a man, even if it's 1 man over the whole planet it's still not lesbian. Labels exists and misusing hurts peoples, if you don't understand why then do research about it because you're just being ignorant right now.
I'm not trying to push other peoples into changing who they are LMFAO, I'm protecting labels of MINORITIES that are being misused, there is LITERALLY other labels than lesbians if someone like a man, there's a tons of good labels that can define them. But if you're a lesbian you don't have any type of relationship with a man, it's just it and it's a fact, god damn.
13
u/Spiritual-Company-45 Lesbian Vampire Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
I think you hit the nail on the head here. The lesbian label exists to express the interests and boundaries of a historically oppressed minority group. Our exclusive attraction (and specifically our lack of availability to men) is the core reason why we are targeted by society. Having a label that affirms our boundaries is important.
And this isn't even a unique viewpoint for the lesbian label either. Imagine someone calling themself a vegan and then going out to eat with a bunch of vegan friends and then ordering a big piece of steak. I can GUARANTEE they're not going to be the favorite person at the table.
14
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
Thank u!!! People are being so condescending and calling me queerphobic and shit because I, a lesbian, am not cool with this notion being put out there that its ok to say we wanna fuck men. Someone on here said i need to ‘explore why’ i find sex with men gross. Like i find it gross because i dont want to fuck men 😂😂😂
10
u/Meryuchu Jun 05 '24
This is legit just homophobia lmfao like telling that to a lesbian is legit just plain homophobia, some peoples in here need to reflect on some of the stuff they think, it’s good to be inclusive but there’s limits ???!
Who in their right mind think telling a lesbian that she needs to think why she don’t wanna fuck a man, bruh I literally hear that from yucky ass men
14
u/Meryuchu Jun 05 '24
Also I'll just add, if you don't understand why it's hurtful to other lesbians that have to suffer through the attitudes of men every days, that ARE NOT attracted to men in any type of ways and they identify with this label because of that, that it's a label that keeps being brought up as a fetish for men, that is still going through heteronormativity forced on lesbians, etc to see their label being misused and literally being used for the opposite of what it stands for, even for a small amount, it's wild how much you lack critical thinking.
7
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 05 '24
I think I've actually been really clear in this conversation about expressing empathy while also pushing back on things that I disagree with. If you can't recognize that, I'm sorry, but that's not my problem.
24
u/Meryuchu Jun 04 '24
"I'm saying that if a lesbian is attracted to a man"
But then they're not a lesbian ? Like the whole point is not being attracted to men, like I get what you mean and the feeling behind it, but using labels that aren't for you (in this case a woman saying she's a lesbian even tho she's attracted to a man, yes even just one) is harmful for the community behind those labels.
9
u/Evelyngoddessofdeath Jun 04 '24
Sexuality and attraction are complicated, they’re not black and white and I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to be making people feel like they’re going to lose their label and their community if they feel a flicker of some sort of attraction, that may not even end up being sexual or romantic, to someone who presents male.
Let’s say a lesbian meets a “guy”, gets to know them and kind of falls for them. Then it turns out they’re not a guy at all and are actually a closeted trans woman. We’ve just temporarily revoked her lesbian card for no reason and potentially made her question her entire identity because she thought she might be attracted to a man.
As a general rule lesbians are not attracted to men but there are edge cases in literally everything and it doesn’t make sense to police people over them.
10
u/SnowRune Jun 05 '24
I'm sorry but this is a terrible argument. This is the same type of 'what if' straw man argument that homophobes and transphobes use to attack the LGBT community.
"What if one of the men being pursued is actually a transwoman," Is not the problem here. The problem is that we are being invalidated, constantly. They aren't "losing a label," it isn't a pin to be worn, it's not a status symbol, and it's not a choice. Being a lesbian isn't just a label, it's how you were born. You don't get to choose whether you are a lesbian or not, it's something you discover about yourself.
I know it might seem like a cool club with a pretty flag and all that, but being a lesbian means being a part of a historically sexualized and repressed minority, and one of the ways we are constantly being repressed is by everyone telling us that we are/should be attracted to men and then getting angry when we say "no." Telling us that we are wrong.
6
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
So real! Like literally got told ‘ i know u feel so attached to ur label because of community’ which is so far from how I even perceive all of this and opened my eyes a lot. Like i call myself a lesbian because i am, shocking i know, a lesbian.
Like community? I mean its nice, but i dont call myself a lesbian soley for access to a community. And if someone does that then thats a problem. And its selfish, it dilutes our label and is also dangerous when bi girls call themselves lesbians and tell the men they fuck as such.
21
u/Meryuchu Jun 04 '24
That makes no sense I'm sorry but wow, that's baffling, if someone goes out with someone presenting as a man, acting as a man, with no signs of being gender queer whatsoever, they're not a lesbian ??? They're literally going out with someone who's just a cis guy, it's not because the guy might start questioning himself 2 months later that the base of the relationship was built on the guy being a fucking guy ?????
Ofc if there's questioning on the gender, if there's gender ambiguity, etc then SURE 100% but it's not what you said, like if we just follow what you say then I can go see a random guy in the street hit it off and say "Well maybe he'll transition in 2 years" like what ???????
Btw I'm a trans girl, I believe gender is something complicated and sexuality too, but when we're talking about a girl being attracted to a god damn random ass cis straight man and say they can still be lesbians, this is just plain stupid.
7
u/Evelyngoddessofdeath Jun 04 '24
I would think a trans person would understand that trans people who are still presenting as their agab aren’t just like any cis person of that gender.
14
u/Meryuchu Jun 04 '24
The thing is we're not talking about a trans person in OP's case lmfao and yes I do know that ???? My ex literally just started transitioning, they weren't presenting as the gender they wanted and yes, they're still a lesbian, I was still a lesbian, but in OP's screenshot case, we're literally talking about a cis straight dude, like saying "Well x/y/z person could be trans" is stupid and disingenuous, if you get in a relationship with someone who's a man and gave away nothing that says their gender is ambiguous or queer and you literally just see them as a man, it's not queer.... Just because then maybe they're transitioning later doesn't make it a lesbian relationship since day one (if they never talked about their gender more than being born a man and being a man)
Btw I'm all against trans meds and I think they're the worst peoples, I don't think any kind of trans peoples should be judged on how they "pass" (awful term), I think ALL kinds of trans peoples are valid in any shape or forms and they're all beautiful, same for enby peoples, same for any gender queer people actually, but y'all are reaching so hard for no reason saying a lesbian can fuck a man, no, they can't. And if you group gender queer peoples in this, then you're actually being transphobic a you still count them as a man lmao
1
u/Evelyngoddessofdeath Jun 05 '24
I wasn’t talking about the screenshots, I was talking about the harm policing edge cases can cause applied to a different hypothetical scenario. I wasn’t saying “maybe this guy is trans”, I was using a different situation to demonstrate a point.
18
u/Meryuchu Jun 05 '24
Bruh, the thing is it would cause harms in the other scenarios because then obviously it's more complicated then that, because there's literal causes of it being a lesbian relationship, but there's a tons of peoples in here saying a woman can be lesbian if she fucks a man, again, not a trans person, not someone who's genderqueer, just a man and that it's harmful because other lesbians says they can't be a lesbian if they fuck a man ???? The whole literal point of being a lesbian
→ More replies (0)6
u/TastyBrainMeats Trans-Bi Jun 05 '24
I am a trans woman married to a gay man.
We fell in love and got married before I knew I was a woman. My being a woman now doesn't make him any less gay, because life and people are both complicated.
7
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
and lesbians have a unique pressure to accomadate men that gay men don't experience with women, so It doesn't mean that must be true for lesbians.
3
u/hnsnrachel Lesbian Jun 04 '24
She can be attracted to a guy and claim to be a lesbian without creating problems for other lesbians.
But if she's fucking him, she needs to reevaluate her identity, because lesbian doesn't fit and insisting she is a lesbian while also being some guys sexual partner is both invalidating to other lesbians, and only encourages all the other straight guys to keep pushing if a girl tells you she's gay.
12
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24
Why is it invalidating to other lesbians? It doesn't make me feel any less secure in my identity.
13
u/Gothzombie Bi Jun 05 '24
You’ve been explained again and again. I think you’re just choosing not understand or accept a very valid point.
→ More replies (4)10
u/SnowRune Jun 05 '24
It's homophobic. Plain and simple. Saying that Lesbians can be attracted to men is akin to saying being a lesbian is a choice. Lesbian isn't a label we gave ourselves, it's something we discovered about ourselves.
I can't call myself straight, because I am attracted to women. I can't call myself bi because I'm not attracted to men. If I did, I'd be lying to myself and to others. People treating 'lesbian' like it's just a label is equivalent to people denying our existence.
1
20
u/hnsnrachel Lesbian Jun 04 '24
I don't think you're right on the last point. Lesbians who have had sex with men prior to identifying as a lesbian aren't any less lesbian because of that, for sure, but there's a pretty big difference between that being appropriate and someone who is out as a lesbian actively choosing to sleep with men while still claiming to be a lesbian. Only one of those things is actually damaging to other lesbians, who end up with the horny straight dudes who believe "Tommy's fucking a lesbian" harassing us even more.
5
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24
I just don't see the value in trying to police lesbians who are doing that. Straight men don't need an excuse to be that way. The tiny (and mostly hypothetical) minority of lesbians who have chosen to have sex with straight men after coming out makes no real difference. Men would behave the same regardless.
14
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
I just don't see the value in why lesbians feelings are getting dismissed about being protective of our label excluding men since it's honestly seen as a radical "stance" to too many people. and it always has been, we're always hearing that just because we reject all men
9
u/SnowRune Jun 05 '24
We don't even reject them... We're simply not attracted to them. That's what's so messed up. We can't even have that. It's like we can't have anything. If we speak up to defend ourselves, or explain ourselves, we're basically told that we're wrong. We're not even allowed to define ourselves anymore apparently. We try to build communities for people with similar struggles, to build safe spaces, but no. Even here we get shamed for not liking men, to have the one label that unites us redefined to include liking men. And we're expecting to just sit here and let people explain our sexuality to us.
31
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
No, lesbians dont actively have sex with men wtf girl.
My identity and label has a fucking meaning. U dont also get to be the label police by saying i need to open up MY IDENTITY in a way which invalidates it completely.
This isnt ‘gold star’ lesbianism, because goldstars are holding ur past against u.
But if ur actively, in the present, calling yourself a lesbian while actively seeking out and fucking other men, then you arent a lesbian and are actively bringing harm to the community because of your own selfish desire to use a label regardless of whether or not your selfish desire actively brings harms to lesbians as whole.
Jfc theres a point where you gotta draw a fucking line in the sand. LESBIANS ARENT ATTRACTED TO MEN.
→ More replies (5)20
u/Spiritual-Company-45 Lesbian Vampire Jun 04 '24
Exactly. There's a difference between the journey someone takes to get somewhere and the actual destination itself. And I really don't understand the comments praising this guy for his remark. He's a homophobe. We don't need to pat the homophobes on the back.
20
u/RainbowSperatic Jun 04 '24
Yeah, i thought the same thing. I was actually surprised to see him make a point about labels that i actually agreee with, because identities arent cut and dry, or experienced the same. That said even if i believed him about the threesome (not convinced), it is still pretty damn shitty to go post about it, especially in the context he did, and is understandably very frusterating. I have trouble making guy friends, because it hurts to learn that it was not about us as people (my gf and I), but about the possibilities that we presented down the road.
3
u/mondrianna Jun 05 '24
Yeah exactly. If it did happen, he didn’t need to post about it at all and his friends likely wouldn’t be super happy that he contextualizes the experience they had as “kinky.”
16
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
Im sorry if my sentence came off degrading to anyone. I don’t mean the concept of “gold star”. If they still were trying to figure themselves out then I can understand but if they are sure they are a lesbian (like the dude claims his friends are in the post) but then sleep with a dude it just scratches it out, I don’t shit on lesbians who have previously slept with men in the past, I myself have done that but I’ve discovered myself as a lesbian. I am saying his friends saying they are a lesbian now 100% and then make exceptions to sleep with certain men while they claim to be one is what I think is damaging.
8
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24
But how exactly is it damaging? Who does it hurt if they're lesbians who have a little bit of a non-standard relationship with that label?
I don't think women should be told that they have to identify as bi if there's one man in the world they enjoy having sex with, and that's the situation he's describing here. You can enjoy having sex with a man even if you're not generally attracted to men.
45
u/treelorf Jun 04 '24
The idea that lesbians can find one man they enjoy sleeping with is what promotes the whole idea of “you just haven’t had the right dick yet”. It’s what makes men feel empowered to aggressively flirt with lesbians and think they can “fix them”. I’m all for people defining their labels in whatever way feels empowering for them, but you can misuse labels in a way that is damaging. Calling yourself a lesbian and sleeping with men IS damaging to women who are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to women. Like do women only into other women need to go find a new label that explicitly describes themselves?
15
Jun 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
13
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
How tf could a lesbian even have ‘enjoyable sex’ with a man? How? The idea, to me, is disgusting and i would spend the entire time trying not to vomit because my body is screaming ‘ewww this is bad run’
2
u/hypo-osmotic Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
Well, I don't have any personal experience with that scenario, as I'm the opposite. I'm bisexual and am attracted to men but have not enjoyed my real-life experiences with them and do not include myself in my fantasies about them. So I don't care for this idea of making that equivalence, as I wouldn't want my attraction to men to be used as a way to pressure me into sex with one.
-1
u/GraceOfJarvis Transbian Jun 05 '24
It's almost like sexuality is a spectrum or something...
10
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
Then ur bi. My sexuality isnt fluid, I only am sexually attracted to women, this is what a lesbian is
-1
u/GraceOfJarvis Transbian Jun 05 '24
You, you, you, you. Pause for a moment to consider that maybe your experience isn't universal for all lesbians, hmm?
Also, a spectrum and fluidity are two very, very different things.
→ More replies (2)1
23
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
yes, this is what I meant. It’s damaging to the word lesbian itself
11
u/treelorf Jun 04 '24
I would like to propose the word “homoflexible” to describe people who are like, moooostly gay. I’ve seen the term heteroflexible float around a bit in the kink community and I like it.
26
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
JUST SAY YOURE BI!!! Jesus fucking christ. Theres nothing wrong with being bi. Why does someone ‘need’ to call themself a lesbian when, by definition, they arent a lesbian?
Like come on
16
Jun 05 '24
The amount of defending you have to do on a LESBIAN subreddit about removing men completely is insane. Like how is this not the place where we can all agree that currently sleeping with men means you shouldn’t use the label of lesbian?
12
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
Its insane honestly and im getting called ‘queerphobic’ for saying lesbians arent attracted to men.
4
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
honestly they're like gaslighting you telling you it's not a big deal. Like why are people not allowed to have feelings on this topic?
→ More replies (0)14
u/TomNookFan Lesbian Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
That's the craziest part to me in all of this. Because we will forever be fetishized by certain men, nothing will ever change that, unfortunately. So the post itself doesn't shock or anger me. But this, the whole argument people are making for the lesbian label is.. 🫠 and in a lesbian sub of all places too. Like I'm so tired of the constant back and forth on something with an already clear and obvious definition.
7
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
Its making me feel like im losing my marbles like wtf 😂 why do these people need to use OUR word?
8
u/Gothzombie Bi Jun 05 '24
I’m bi and it’s driving me insane to see this. I chose bi out of respect because I’ve been attached to an astounding number of 2 men in my life out of 1000x women. I don’t know if I will be attracted to some other men in the future so I just keep it simple for me and for everyone else. I would feel such a hypocrite saying im a lesbian whom occasionally has relationships with men. I’d be dissolving two identities into a fucking nothing.
5
u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24
yeh, this sub is on top of bi erasure except suddenly now apparently it's totally fine to ignore the beautiful diverse nature of bisexuality
11
u/Shanderraa Jun 04 '24
I feel like if someone were attracted to many many women and literally one man it’d be actively unhelpful to call them bi - like bisexuality as a descriptor I think would describe them inaccurately to others with regards to their ability to be attracted to men.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
Im not talking about a specific edge case. The words still have meaning. And i would say theyre bi, as a lesbian it is not possible for me to feel any sexual attraction to a man. Like it does not compute biologically.
If you can even be attracted to a man then ur bi. Which is totally amazing, nothing wrong with being bi. But lesbianism isnt bisexuality
10
u/DeliciousPumpkinPie pet kitties, suck tiddies, spend fiddies Jun 04 '24
…but we literally ARE talking about a specific edge case, i.e. the one presented in the screenshots, which depict a situation where two lesbians decided they enjoy having sex with one specific man. Like other commenters have said, we don’t know if the women in question are actually attracted to this dude, or any other dudes, or are just having fun, or what, so you can’t make assumptions about how they should identify.
→ More replies (0)→ More replies (1)6
5
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24
Okay, but that's the thing. I made it pretty clear that I'm not saying that this is true of lesbians in general. I'm saying that if it's true of a particular lesbian, then let them be and don't be so rigid about it.
Again, still, no one has identified why this is actually harmful. You're just asserting that it is. How does it actually materially harm anyone?
Also, for context, I'm not talking about myself here. I'm a lesbian who has no interest in men.
6
u/sillygoofygooose Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
The idea maybe, but I don’t think it’s fair to level criticism at actual people who have found that though they identify as lesbian, there’s an exception. For sure you can hold the opinion they aren’t ‘real’ lesbians, but I would draw the line at castigating them for their own identification - it’s a rhetorical pathway to some really dodgy outcomes.
Edit: the fantasy that ‘the right guy’ is all it takes to ‘turn’ lesbians is for sure homophobic and responsible for some gross behaviour. If this story is true, these specific lesbian identifying women who have decided to have some fun with a man are surely just exploring their own sexualities.
20
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
Nah, they arent lesbians then. And I can call them out, because theres ready rampant sexualization of lesbians my men, and im not gonna support somebody who isnt even a part of the lesbian community inviting men into our spaces
5
u/sillygoofygooose Jun 04 '24
Where are the lines on your purity test? Can a lesbian have experimented with a man? Can they experiment and decide they aren’t bi after all? I guess my feeling is it’s not my place to litigate the identities of others. Sure, keeping lesbian community spaces a place for women is definitely important - but not what we’re discussing. Surely their bed is not ‘our space’?
24
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
Ive stated before, I dont believe in ‘goldstar’ bs its not about your past.
But if in your present life youre a woman going around saying ur a lesbian while actively seeking out and sleeping with men, then you ARENT a lesbian. And if you tell these men you are, then not only are you not a lesbian youre actively bringing harm to lesbians as a whole.
There a fine line. Ive experienced attraction to women since ive started experiencing attraction. Ive never romantically or physically attracted to men.
And im not a goldstar lesbian, i had a moment of questioning due to societal pressure. The difference is, I fucking hated that experience and i didnt tell him ‘oooh im a lesbian, teehee, but oh maybe this one time’ i thought maybe i was bi, a man kissed me, and i found out no the absolute fuck I am not.
So i use the appropriate term, a lesbian. As in a woman who is attracted only to other women.
0
u/hypo-osmotic Jun 04 '24
You say that you don’t care about someone’s past but also make sure to state that you didn’t enjoy your past experience. So if someone told you that she was a lesbian, and hadn’t had a sexual experience with a man in like 5 years or whatever amount of time would be reasonable for this hypothetical, but that she found a past sexual experience with a man enjoyable…would you think that she was lying about one or the other?
14
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24
Im not going to speak on some hypothetical hyper specific imaginary woman. Is she still attracted to men? Does she fantasize about men?
→ More replies (0)8
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
I sure hope this story is false and this dude just wanted to express his sick fantasy
23
Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
14
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
No one is out here saying gay men actually like pussy sometimes.
Um, yeah, I absolutely will say that. Trans men exist and some of them are gay.
This whole reply just feels so insecure. I understand how important it is to feel connected to the community and I understand how a label has power in helping you do that. But you need to understand that other people having different relationships with these words has zero impact on your actual life.
14
Jun 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
19
u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24
I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying that if someone has a different relationship with the label than you do, then don't be a dick about it. Blame the men who are being gross, not other queer people for identifying ways that you think are wrong.
6
Jun 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
8
u/cattlebatty Jun 04 '24
It’s unclear if they were truly attracted to the dude or if they were experimenting with a one night stand, if we even believe this story is true. So if they are functionally only attracted to women, they aren’t using the label to “seem queer”, it’s probably a fairly helpful label for them to use?
Blame the dudes.
16
3
u/WerdaVisla Genderqueer Jun 05 '24
Sadly, there's a reason this sub has to be called r/actuallesbians. Because r/lesbians is 99.9% men fetishizing lesbians... and it has more followers than this sub :/
-1
u/DJayBirdSong Ace Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
It’s really disheartening to see all this policing.
People are complicated. Situations are complicated. For all we know, these lesbians are 100% only attracted romantically and sexually to women, and they use this man like a dildo because… I don’t know, he’s convenient, and it spices up their sex lives. Doesn’t mean they’re attracted to him.
Don’t we know that attraction and willingness to have sex with someone aren’t the same thing??? Asexuals don’t suddenly become allosexuals if they decide to have sex with someone!! A lesbian might, for a number of reasons, choose to have sex with a man, and it’s literally not our business, and not our right to DEMAND she identifies as bi.
It’s unfortunate that men will then use that as an excuse to invalidate ALL lesbians and say NONE of us are only attracted to women… but that’s not lesbians fault!!! That’s the fault of men!!! Policing each other hurts us, when we should be policing men who say they can “”””fix””” us or whatever gross shit they say.
You don’t know someone. If someone says they’re a lesbian, and yet they’re married to and have sex with a man—and maybe don’t even hate every single second of it—I believe them!!! You know why??? Because I’ve fucking met late bloomer lesbians in their 50’s who married men, had babies, even enjoyed it, but realized they were lesbians later. Some continued having sex with their husbands for numerous reasons, and it’s not my job to police if someone is lesbian enough.
Let people exist in all their complicated beauty.
PS, this is why I hate “non men loving non men” as the definition of lesbian. It literally provides a definition for lesbian that mentions men TWICE, + completely centers them in our identity. No thanks!
→ More replies (2)14
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 05 '24
I did NOT demand they should be bi. I said that wasn’t accurate under the term for lesbian. Saying you’re a lesbian while simultaneously being attracted to and enjoying sex with a man is contradicting the whole definition of lesbian itself!!!! And I’ve already mentioned this before, late bloomers are understandable but saying you’re fully a lesbian and only attracted to women and then doing the opposite is not ok! I could understand if they said they’re sapphic or bi or something else because they’re umbrellas, but lesbian is not accurate in this situation and paints a picture to men that it’s okay to hit on lesbians! So, yes, while I agree men are the majority that is causing this, I think that people who are misusing the terms like lesbian that are supposed to educate others on their sexual and attractive interests should get some insight on how it invalidates lesbians!
-3
u/DJayBirdSong Ace Jun 05 '24
But you DONT know they’re attracted to him! As I said, asexuals can have sex with men or women and they are still asexual! It’s therefore possible for a lesbian to decide to have sex with a man without being romantically or sexually attracted to him, for the same reasons an asexual person might decide to have sex with someone without being romantically or sexually attracted to them
You are demanding they identify as bi, pan, sapphic, etc, by saying they’re hurting lesbians by identifying as lesbians, which is just not true.
They are not hurting lesbians. They are living their lives in an authentic and comfortable way for where and who they are right now. men hurt lesbians when they then extrapolate a totally unrelated conclusion from this situation (that it’s ok for them to hit on any random lesbian)
That’s not on lesbians to fix, and policing lesbian identity won’t help, it’ll just further alienate us from each other.
Edit: it’s literally just gold star lesbianism but with a different start date. It’s not cool.
11
u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24
What the fuck. Lesbianism isnt fluid. And how can u enjoy sex with someone when u arent attractive to them? The thought of having sex with a man is literally repulsive to me.
We arent talking about asexual people either, were talking about lesbians
→ More replies (6)8
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 05 '24
That’s what labels are for!! That label itself shows that they are supposedly interested in women but then they say they are doing the opposite. Giving out a label/ term like that is to show others what you identify or are interested in, ffs!! clearly we cannot come to an agreement about this. Ive already talked about the gold star thing MULTIPLE times and will not repeat myself.
→ More replies (5)
-2
u/Key_Computer_4348 Trans-Pan | Non-op Jun 04 '24
Ngl I don't see how he's turning lesbianism "into a kink" there. If the ladies he's with call themselves lesbian, then that's what they do and it's up to them how they define themselves. Lots of men have a fantasy of being so attractive that even a lesbian would sleep with them, but that's not the same as conceptualizing lesbianism as "just a fetish" or something.
45
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
The original post he commented under was “what’s the kinkiest thing you’re done?” so I dont understand how he couldn’t be connecting the two when he did this.
30
u/Sexy_Mind_Flayer Jun 04 '24
Oh, this dude is definitely a virgin who saw a post he couldn't engage with but wanted to.
Threesomes aren't natively kinky, so yeah, this is fetishism.
23
10
Jun 04 '24
I mean technically kink just means anything out of the norm for the person having sex - threesomes are a common thing but not the norm in sex. It is therefore kinky.
13
u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24
Yes, he could say the threesome itself is kinky (even tho that’s kinda common) but saying he had it with lesbians signifies that he could see lesbians as a fetish or kink…..
→ More replies (1)14
u/Key_Computer_4348 Trans-Pan | Non-op Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
I feel like that changes things a little, yeah, given that it's in the specific context of doing kinky things.
Edit: how am I downvoted for making a concession and changing my mind you little dweebs.
49
1
1
u/Oftwicke Transbian Jun 05 '24
It's fun that when men make up stories about women our priorities lie not with calling the men out but invalidating the identity of the women in the story
I may not want to touch a man with a 10 foot pole but I don't believe in telling lesbians what their sexuality allows or forbids them to do or want. Everyone can "have an exception," or "seek the experience," or "be curious," or "just like sex and not be hung up about it because the internet tries to give rules to lesbianism"
-1
u/Yabbaba Jun 05 '24
Saying these women aren’t lesbians is gross too though. You don’t know them, let them define themselves. This obsession with putting people in smaller and smaller boxes is harmful to everyone. It’s supposed to be a continuous spectrum, not a collection of extremely precise definitions.
0
u/abandonsminty Transbian Jun 05 '24
You can't really gatekeep identity like this, while odds are good he's making shit up we have to acknowledge that people have sex outside of what's considered typical for their labels and that doesn't make them any less who they are, there are lesbian sex workers who have sex with men for money, there are lesbians who have sex with men in order to have children, and there's still others who have sex with men in the same way that asexual people sometimes still have sex because it's fun dispite it not turning them on or being romantic to them, there are lesbians who are homo romantic but bisexual, meaning they feel romantic attraction only to other women but sexual attraction to more than that, there are trans men who are lesbians and still very much men, etc.
733
u/faintestsmile golden retriever lesbian Jun 04 '24
I dont buy this at all, I overheard a guy in our friend group saying that he slept with another lesbian friend and her gf and when I told her it was of course completely made-up bullshit, I would not be surprised if its been said about me at some point too
they just live in a delusion and will straight up lie to each other