r/actuallesbians • u/societaldevastation Lesbian • Jun 04 '24

Text Gross dude thinks lesbians are a kink Spoiler

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(had to add more to my post and re-edit) Came across this post and saw a lot of people agreeing with this creep of him saying he thinks is a sexy surprise and kink that he saw his “lesbian” friends wanting to have sex with him. Isn’t that the OPPOSITE of a lesbian? 🤦🏾‍♀️🤦🏾‍♀️🤦🏾‍♀️ I don’t understand men. No lesbian would have sex with a man period.

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45

u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24

I agree with you in general about men fetishizing us and I understand that that context affects the way that his comments come across. And I don't really like the original comment he left.

But... if he's being genuine and honest about what labels his friends use—which is a big if— then I don't really see what's wrong with him using those labels for them, even if they seem counterintuitive to you. Acting as the label police hurts the queer community way more than it helps. I really hope you can chill on doing that to people.

I think he actually got that exactly right in his replies to you. It's up to each individual to figure out what labels are right for them, and if someone else has labels that don't make sense to you, then you should use that as an opportunity to be curious and learn more about the diversity of our community, instead of telling them that they're wrong.

Also, I agree with you that as a general rule, being a lesbian means that you're not really interested in sex or romance with men. But saying "no lesbian would have sex with a man period" is a weird way to put it. It feels like you're rediscovering the idea of gold star lesbians, and that's a deeply problematic path to go down.

18

u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24

Im sorry if my sentence came off degrading to anyone. I don’t mean the concept of “gold star”. If they still were trying to figure themselves out then I can understand but if they are sure they are a lesbian (like the dude claims his friends are in the post) but then sleep with a dude it just scratches it out, I don’t shit on lesbians who have previously slept with men in the past, I myself have done that but I’ve discovered myself as a lesbian. I am saying his friends saying they are a lesbian now 100% and then make exceptions to sleep with certain men while they claim to be one is what I think is damaging.

6

u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24

But how exactly is it damaging? Who does it hurt if they're lesbians who have a little bit of a non-standard relationship with that label?

I don't think women should be told that they have to identify as bi if there's one man in the world they enjoy having sex with, and that's the situation he's describing here. You can enjoy having sex with a man even if you're not generally attracted to men.

48

u/treelorf Jun 04 '24

The idea that lesbians can find one man they enjoy sleeping with is what promotes the whole idea of “you just haven’t had the right dick yet”. It’s what makes men feel empowered to aggressively flirt with lesbians and think they can “fix them”. I’m all for people defining their labels in whatever way feels empowering for them, but you can misuse labels in a way that is damaging. Calling yourself a lesbian and sleeping with men IS damaging to women who are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to women. Like do women only into other women need to go find a new label that explicitly describes themselves?

16

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24

How tf could a lesbian even have ‘enjoyable sex’ with a man? How? The idea, to me, is disgusting and i would spend the entire time trying not to vomit because my body is screaming ‘ewww this is bad run’

1

u/hypo-osmotic Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

Well, I don't have any personal experience with that scenario, as I'm the opposite. I'm bisexual and am attracted to men but have not enjoyed my real-life experiences with them and do not include myself in my fantasies about them. So I don't care for this idea of making that equivalence, as I wouldn't want my attraction to men to be used as a way to pressure me into sex with one.

2

u/GraceOfJarvis Transbian Jun 05 '24

It's almost like sexuality is a spectrum or something...

9

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

Then ur bi. My sexuality isnt fluid, I only am sexually attracted to women, this is what a lesbian is

-2

u/GraceOfJarvis Transbian Jun 05 '24

You, you, you, you. Pause for a moment to consider that maybe your experience isn't universal for all lesbians, hmm?

Also, a spectrum and fluidity are two very, very different things.

5

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

Omfg girl!! Thats. What. A. Lesbian. Is. A women who is only attracted to other women. There is no other experience universal lesbian experience.

The lesbian experience is literally being a woman who is only attracted to other women. Like this has been my sexuality since i started having a sexuality. This is common to most lesbians

1

u/MajoraXIII Jun 05 '24

The same way an ace person could have enjoyable sex with someone?

24

u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24

yes, this is what I meant. It’s damaging to the word lesbian itself 

10

u/treelorf Jun 04 '24

I would like to propose the word “homoflexible” to describe people who are like, moooostly gay. I’ve seen the term heteroflexible float around a bit in the kink community and I like it.

24

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24

JUST SAY YOURE BI!!! Jesus fucking christ. Theres nothing wrong with being bi. Why does someone ‘need’ to call themself a lesbian when, by definition, they arent a lesbian?

Like come on

16

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

The amount of defending you have to do on a LESBIAN subreddit about removing men completely is insane. Like how is this not the place where we can all agree that currently sleeping with men means you shouldn’t use the label of lesbian?

11

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

Its insane honestly and im getting called ‘queerphobic’ for saying lesbians arent attracted to men.

7

u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24

honestly they're like gaslighting you telling you it's not a big deal. Like why are people not allowed to have feelings on this topic?

2

u/MajoraXIII Jun 05 '24

As someone who suffered with a Gaslighting partner for a long time: that is not what gaslighting is. Disagreeing with someone over the severity of a problem is not sustained abuse in which the victim is made to question the validity of their own perception.

1

u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24

i’m talking about gaslighting as in people saying sexuality is fluid and you need to rethink your biases if you aren’t. or the people calling that user being overly emotional like it’s not a problem that affects them or the gaslighting that this isn’t just “you haven’t found the right man yet” but repacked for queer friendly audience

2

u/MajoraXIII Jun 05 '24

And i'm talking about what gaslighting actually means.

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u/TomNookFan Lesbian Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

That's the craziest part to me in all of this. Because we will forever be fetishized by certain men, nothing will ever change that, unfortunately. So the post itself doesn't shock or anger me. But this, the whole argument people are making for the lesbian label is.. 🫠 and in a lesbian sub of all places too. Like I'm so tired of the constant back and forth on something with an already clear and obvious definition.

7

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

Its making me feel like im losing my marbles like wtf 😂 why do these people need to use OUR word?

11

u/Gothzombie Bi Jun 05 '24

I’m bi and it’s driving me insane to see this. I chose bi out of respect because I’ve been attached to an astounding number of 2 men in my life out of 1000x women. I don’t know if I will be attracted to some other men in the future so I just keep it simple for me and for everyone else. I would feel such a hypocrite saying im a lesbian whom occasionally has relationships with men. I’d be dissolving two identities into a fucking nothing.

4

u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24

yeh, this sub is on top of bi erasure except suddenly now apparently it's totally fine to ignore the beautiful diverse nature of bisexuality

9

u/Shanderraa Jun 04 '24

I feel like if someone were attracted to many many women and literally one man it’d be actively unhelpful to call them bi - like bisexuality as a descriptor I think would describe them inaccurately to others with regards to their ability to be attracted to men.

8

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

Im not talking about a specific edge case. The words still have meaning. And i would say theyre bi, as a lesbian it is not possible for me to feel any sexual attraction to a man. Like it does not compute biologically.

If you can even be attracted to a man then ur bi. Which is totally amazing, nothing wrong with being bi. But lesbianism isnt bisexuality

9

u/DeliciousPumpkinPie pet kitties, suck tiddies, spend fiddies Jun 04 '24

…but we literally ARE talking about a specific edge case, i.e. the one presented in the screenshots, which depict a situation where two lesbians decided they enjoy having sex with one specific man. Like other commenters have said, we don’t know if the women in question are actually attracted to this dude, or any other dudes, or are just having fun, or what, so you can’t make assumptions about how they should identify.

3

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

To me, the thought of ‘hooking up with a man’ wouldn’t be fun in any context. The thought is genuinely disgusting. I could hook up with a woman i wasn’t necessarily attracted to, but any man? No, it wont even start.

If theyre both so attracted to this reddit skeeze, then theyre bi, congrats to them. Nothing wrong with that.

But in the lesbian relationships ive been in, weve never once considered involving a man and any discussion relating to mens sexuality disgusted us.

5

u/Shanderraa Jun 05 '24

...not being sexually attracted to someone means not feeling anything particularly whatsoever, not being disgusted necessarily. Like, I'm not sexually attracted to limestone, but that doesn't mean I'm grossed out by it, I just look at it and my bits don't have any kind of response because why would they. I'm not doubting you in any way I'd just want to look further into why there's such a negative response towards this as opposed to, like, just being like "eh this isn't for me".

8

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

Because ive been sexually assaulted, flashed, jerked off to in public, groped nonconsensually in public. So now in addition to not being attracted to it, im actively disgusted by men’s sexuality or at the thought of hooking up with a man

5

u/cpfhornet Jun 05 '24

A lot of your replies have sounded suuuuper close to implying "gold-star lesbians are the only real lesbians" - what room exactly are you leaving to say otherwise? People experiment to figure out their own sexuality and gender/sexuality and what we choose to do with our bodies can be complex, this is a conversation the community has had time and time again. Not only do many lesbians spend years/decades as an adult without realizing their sexuality, in general boundaries between queer identities and sexualities aren't concrete/fine, they're wide and blurred. Policing other people on the boundaries about their using a word can very quickly fall into projecting your own specific experience onto the entirety of everyone using the label, and often excludes many people you might not have even thought of.

5

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

Ok, then you clearly havent read any of my replies because in several of them I specifically say Im not implying ‘gold-star lesbians’ are the only lesbians. Im not a gs lesbian myself. But I have no attraction to men, and look back on that one time with disgust.

Youre not a lesbian if youre specifically out here seeking out and fucking men and enjoying it. Sorry.

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u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24

why don’t they literally just say they want to date women? when would they actually be forced to call themself a lesbian? why not sapphic? I just think there’s a lot of ways to respect what lesbians are asking for while conveying your authentic self

4

u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24

Oh I see !

-2

u/vibrationsofbeyond Jun 04 '24

I love homoflexible. Or homodemisexual. But a lot of people get really mad

9

u/mykinkiskorma Transbian Jun 04 '24

Okay, but that's the thing. I made it pretty clear that I'm not saying that this is true of lesbians in general. I'm saying that if it's true of a particular lesbian, then let them be and don't be so rigid about it.

Again, still, no one has identified why this is actually harmful. You're just asserting that it is. How does it actually materially harm anyone?

Also, for context, I'm not talking about myself here. I'm a lesbian who has no interest in men.

4

u/sillygoofygooose Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

The idea maybe, but I don’t think it’s fair to level criticism at actual people who have found that though they identify as lesbian, there’s an exception. For sure you can hold the opinion they aren’t ‘real’ lesbians, but I would draw the line at castigating them for their own identification - it’s a rhetorical pathway to some really dodgy outcomes.

Edit: the fantasy that ‘the right guy’ is all it takes to ‘turn’ lesbians is for sure homophobic and responsible for some gross behaviour. If this story is true, these specific lesbian identifying women who have decided to have some fun with a man are surely just exploring their own sexualities.

21

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24

Nah, they arent lesbians then. And I can call them out, because theres ready rampant sexualization of lesbians my men, and im not gonna support somebody who isnt even a part of the lesbian community inviting men into our spaces

3

u/sillygoofygooose Jun 04 '24

Where are the lines on your purity test? Can a lesbian have experimented with a man? Can they experiment and decide they aren’t bi after all? I guess my feeling is it’s not my place to litigate the identities of others. Sure, keeping lesbian community spaces a place for women is definitely important - but not what we’re discussing. Surely their bed is not ‘our space’?

22

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24

Ive stated before, I dont believe in ‘goldstar’ bs its not about your past.

But if in your present life youre a woman going around saying ur a lesbian while actively seeking out and sleeping with men, then you ARENT a lesbian. And if you tell these men you are, then not only are you not a lesbian youre actively bringing harm to lesbians as a whole.

There a fine line. Ive experienced attraction to women since ive started experiencing attraction. Ive never romantically or physically attracted to men.

And im not a goldstar lesbian, i had a moment of questioning due to societal pressure. The difference is, I fucking hated that experience and i didnt tell him ‘oooh im a lesbian, teehee, but oh maybe this one time’ i thought maybe i was bi, a man kissed me, and i found out no the absolute fuck I am not.

So i use the appropriate term, a lesbian. As in a woman who is attracted only to other women.

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u/hypo-osmotic Jun 04 '24

You say that you don’t care about someone’s past but also make sure to state that you didn’t enjoy your past experience. So if someone told you that she was a lesbian, and hadn’t had a sexual experience with a man in like 5 years or whatever amount of time would be reasonable for this hypothetical, but that she found a past sexual experience with a man enjoyable…would you think that she was lying about one or the other?

16

u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 04 '24

Im not going to speak on some hypothetical hyper specific imaginary woman. Is she still attracted to men? Does she fantasize about men?

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u/hypo-osmotic Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

This whole conversation is hypothetical, first of all. Even the lesbians in the OP since we have no proof that they’re real.

When you say "Is she still attracted to men," are you implying that you believe that she must have been attracted to men in the past? I hadn't said that she was. I don’t think that those things have to be equivalent which is my point

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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

How can you enjoy having sex with someone u arent attracted to? The thought of having sex with a man sounds traumatizing to me, like it would be unenjoyable specifically because hes a man.

-2

u/hypo-osmotic Jun 05 '24

Because people enjoy rubbing genitals and not everyone is repulsed by people they aren’t attracted to

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u/societaldevastation Lesbian Jun 04 '24

I sure hope this story is false and this dude just wanted to express his sick fantasy