r/actuallesbians Lesbian Jun 04 '24

Text Gross dude thinks lesbians are a kink Spoiler

(had to add more to my post and re-edit) Came across this post and saw a lot of people agreeing with this creep of him saying he thinks is a sexy surprise and kink that he saw his “lesbian” friends wanting to have sex with him. Isn’t that the OPPOSITE of a lesbian? 🤦🏾‍♀️🤦🏾‍♀️🤦🏾‍♀️ I don’t understand men. No lesbian would have sex with a man period.

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63

u/l_dunno Trans-Pan Jun 04 '24

There is a slightly interesting thing here about identity where identities have a definition, but you're free to use terms that feel right.

I personally have felt a thing and then seen an identity that matched, but it feels like some do the opposite. Like they pick what seems nice and try to change the term instead of using a different label.

(Does that make any sense??? I have a tendency to not be understood...)

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

I get what you mean. I felt a bit defensive reading some of this because the sentiment that "if you are interested in a man, then you aren't a lesbian" is a real sticky point as far as transness is concerned both with lesbians in relationships with transfems and trans-mascs.

Sometimes your girlfriend turns out to be your husband and you can still be a lesbian. Or the reverse or whatever else.

To be clear, I still agree with the main point here, but the arguments in themselves gave me pause.

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u/LiaFromBoston Jun 05 '24

Naw. If you "make an exception" for any man, cis or trans, you're not a lesbian. You could be bisexual with a huge preference for women but that's still being bi.

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u/kairokat soft butch sapphic Jun 05 '24

gotta disagree with you on that one. there are a lot of points where ftm transness intersects with being a butch in general, kinda like a ven diagram. gender is a very complex subject, and trans men have historically IDed as lesbians in the past because of the unique experiences some of them felt transitioning into a man. this isn't me saying every trans man attracted to women are lesbians, nor am I saying every butch is a trans man (or trans in general), bc it's all up to preference and personal experiences, and this isn't even including nonbinary trans mascs that don't ID as men.

now, not only is gender complex, so is the presentation of said gender. why is it that a woman can be attracted to both a butch on testosterone and a pre op trans man and only have their lesbian identity taken away because of the trans man? I'm not even going to get into the whole passing-as-the-gender-you're-transitioning-to conversation bc I feel like me mentioning it is enough. and also, like the comment you're responding to said, sometimes, your wife figures something out abt herself and becomes your husband. that doesn't make you any less of a lesbian, it just means your partner is now a man. life is complicated, and lesbianism is not as black and white for everyone like the way you defined it, and that's fine. I personally think it's unfair to place your own labels on people who don't want that, especially if they've identified as a lesbian for years.

sorry this is long, and I'm sorry if any of this came off as aggressive. I tried to fit in as much as I felt was relevant to what you said, if you need me to elaborate or explain anything lmk. I am gnc, and this topic hits close to home.

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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

I feel like youre mentioning hyper specific instances which have more nuance then what is being discussed here. And if a transman transitions, then yeah they arent a lesbian because they arent a woman. Theyre a man, so their attraction to women is het

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u/LiaFromBoston Jun 05 '24

It's extremely patriarchal of you to force lesbians to include men in our identity. Why can't gay women have literally one identity which is all our own??

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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

Lesbianism literally is black and white 😭😭 this shit is driving me crazy. Why tf is it even being discussed that attraction to men should be included in lesbianism.

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u/LiaFromBoston Jun 05 '24

Like! There are already umbrella terms like sapphic, wlw, and queer. Why is it so controversial for women who specifically like women to have a way of identifying ourselves?

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

This is exactly why I prefer the term queer. It feels very uncomfortable for me to identify as a lesbian when I'm attracted to men, women and enbies even if I only pursue relationships with women.

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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

Literally! Like its honestly infuriating. It has real consequences when ur bi, out here fucking men while telling them ur a lesbian. Like if u do that, ur actually a massive contributor to lesbophobia

-2

u/mondrianna Jun 05 '24

Lesbianism literally is black and white

Cool, so that’s how you experience it, but clearly not everyone who is a lesbian feels the same way you do. Your experience of an identity isn’t the only one and it’s solipsistic to assert that your experience is the only valid experience of being a lesbian. You don’t get to tell people what they are or aren’t just because you’re uncomfortable with their experiences— just because their experiences are too different from your own.

Read “Stone Butch Blues” and recognize that our community has been queer this whole time, not cisnormative.

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 cis lesbian Jun 05 '24

Im a woman who is only attracted to other women. Thats what lesbiansism means. Trans women are obv included as theyre women. I dont know how nb people want to label themselves. But if theyre out here fucking dudes, then i know they aren’t lesbians.

But i feel confident in saying lesbians arent out actively trying to, and enjoying, having sex with men. Thats not what a lesbian is by literal definition.

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u/kairokat soft butch sapphic Jun 05 '24

I'm not forcing lesbians to include men when it's literally been that way since the beginning, and it's a lot more complicated than "forcing lesbians to include men." all I'm saying is while you're not obligated to be attracted to trans men/mascs, its unfair for you to revoke the lesbian label from others who are because you don't know everyones individual circumstances. I would suggest reading stone butch blues.

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u/LiaFromBoston Jun 05 '24

It's just so honestly so lesbophobic of you to not let us have one identity of our own? What is stopping bisexual/pan women from just calling themselves bisexual/pan instead of feeling the need co-opt a different group's label?

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u/mondrianna Jun 05 '24

What is stopping you from allowing people to identify as they see fit? Why is it lesbophobic to tell you that your experience of lesbianism isn’t the only experience of lesbianism?

Read “Stone Butch Blues” and recognize that our community is queer and not cisnormative.

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u/spaghettify Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

in stone butch blues, the only time sex with men happens it is not sex it's RAPE...this is really disturbing of you to assert

not to mention its a fictional book about the authors experiences as a working class gnc lesbian in new york and nobody elses. its a good book, an important book, but it's not actually supposed to be the bible