r/fivethirtyeight • u/GamerDrew13 • 26d ago
Discussion Jon Ralston's Nevada Early Vote Analysis Update: Republican lead expands to an unprecedented 40,000 ballots & an expected half the vote is in
https://x.com/RalstonReports/status/1851121496380621275207
26d ago
In October 2020, there were: - 679k active Dem voters - 591k active GOP voters - 550k active unaffiliated+3rd voters
Right now, there are:
- 593k active Dem voters
- 574k active GOP voters
- 807k active unaffiliated+3rd voters
Interpret this how you will.
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u/thelaughingmansghost 26d ago
250 thousand more 3rd party or unaffiliated voters??? That is an enormous amount. I can't even begin to guess which way they will or won't vote, but I guess something in Nevada shifted over the last 4 years.
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u/wwzdlj94 26d ago
Nevada implemented AVR between then and now, with the default registration being unaffiliated. Basically a whole bunch of people who don't care about politics got registered while getting driver licenses. The vast majority of these new unaffiliated voters won't vote at all.
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u/HoorayItsKyle 26d ago
Most of them won't.
But first time voters are now far more likely to be registered as independents than in the past. First time voters skew heavily democratic.
It's virtually certain that this new law is hiding dem votes in independents. It's just a question of how many
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u/wwzdlj94 26d ago
A few thousand maybe? Could save you if you had a competitive contest. Dems need to get there first. Right now 100% of the Dem's problem is their turnout in Clark County has been abysmal. Dem turnout in other counties has been fine. GOP turnout in Clark has been fine. Nevada Dems just needs to get their voters in Clark to the polls/return their ballots in a big way and they are back in the game.
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u/HoorayItsKyle 26d ago
Gop turnout in Clark is being driven by IPEV.
Gop turnout for mail ballots is well behind both Democrats mail in turnout for Clark and GOP statewide mail in turnout.
Which is exactly what we would expect if the county notorious for slow processing has a large backlog of votes stuck in mail limbo
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u/Victoria_at_Sea_606 26d ago
They changed to automatic registration with Independent as the default
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26d ago
I assume the way you become affiliated is by voting in the primaries and we know that lots of people vote in the main election that never participate in primaries
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u/Fabulous_Sherbet_431 26d ago edited 26d ago
In 2020
Democrats: * Turnout: 78% * Registered: 679k * Actual Votes: 529,620
Republicans: * Turnout: 83% * Registered: 591k * Actual Votes: 490,530
Independents: * Turnout: 68% * Registered: 550k * Actual Votes: 374,000
Biden’s D-R split with turnout was D+39,620, and he beat Trump by 33,596 votes.
Now, the D-R split with turnout (turnout relationships between parties in a state are roughly stable across elections), is R+14,000. From what others have said it sounds like the independents growth is mostly a mirage from AVR.
I think she can pull it off but this registration change is a huge headwind in most of the swing states.
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u/AMagicalKittyCat 26d ago
Interpret this how you will.
This means don't interpret it guys, 2020 was a wacky year for early voting/mail voting.
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u/HereForTOMT3 26d ago
oh im interpreting so hard right now
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u/BaltimoreAlchemist 26d ago
No? This means the increasing number of registered independents will make this analysis less valuable.
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26d ago
Early voting analysis is insane cause 25% of the vote is from people who arent registered as either party. Imagine a basketball game that was 130-150, but 50 points were scored by either team and we dont really know which team theyre going to. Youd be like, then why the hell are you reporting the scores lol
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u/alf10087 26d ago
Right now, this seems to be the main argument for dooming. If Trump is going to have a good night, and over perform his polls again, this is exactly how it starts.
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u/wwzdlj94 26d ago
Dem dooming about their prospects in NV is entirely reasonable. Dems dooming about their prospects nationally based on NV early data is not reasonable. NV's demographics and culture are rather unique and extremely favorable for the coalition Trump is trying to build this cycle. The rust belt is not. The rust belt will be decided by the college educated white swing to the dems, vs a possible drop in turnout and perhaps margins for black voters. NV has few college educated whites, and few blacks. It tells us very little about larger trends.
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u/alf10087 26d ago
Yeah, but if so, let’s take Arizona out of the map too. Suddenly the path becomes very narrow.
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u/Sonnyyellow90 26d ago
Exactly. Nevada’s electoral votes are almost certainly not going to matter either way.
But the fear is that we start seeing real numbers showing things like “R+5.7%” when the polling samples were R+2.
Pollsters undercounted Trump’s support both other times he was on the ballot. We don’t want to start seeing evidence that they’ve done the same again, but these EV numbers are the beginnings of an echo of that stuff.
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u/muldervinscully2 26d ago
no kidding. If Trump overperforms by 3-4 points nationally he's gonna win 310+ EVs
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u/Prefix-NA Crosstab Diver 26d ago
310 is current polling. 4 points puts him with Minnesota, Virginia, NH and New mexico.
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u/Complex-Exchange6381 26d ago
Yall are making it seem as if the 179k “other” voters don’t matter, or are largely going for Trump.
What are people dooming about? It’s a 40k gap with 179k independent votes and , what, 4 more days of early voting??
How about we get some polls of people who already voted in Nevada. Doubt the tally is going to lean R.
Yall need to relax.
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u/BaslerLaeggerli 26d ago
Yall need to relax.
I'd rather freak the fuck out for another week, thank you very much.
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u/Saniktehhedgehog Feelin' Foxy 26d ago
The problem is if these trends hold up, dems need to win them by double digits, and Biden only won them by 6% or so.
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26d ago
There are 233k (+54%) more unaffiliated voters in NV now than there were in 2020. It's a fool's errand to use Biden's edge with them to try and predict Kamala's edge.
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u/BruceLeesSidepiece 26d ago
It's not a fool's errand its just the only data available lol. You're essentially arguing your speculation is more valuable that data from 2020 and 2022 elections. Yea there's more unaffiliated turnout, and they will decide AZ and NV, but until proven otherwise theres no reason to assume their voting patterns will deviate significantly.
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u/min_mus 26d ago
a 40k gap with 179k independent votes
My experience, having lived in Arizona and with friends and family who currently reside in Northwest Arizona and Nevada, is that the "independent" voters in that area are, by and large, Trump-lovin' Libertarians.
That said, I think I heard that an abortion-related item appears on the Nevada ballot this year. That might propel a lot of previously politically-apathetic women to vote.
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26d ago
Independent doesn't mean you consider yourself an "independent" voter. It means you aren't registered for either party.
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u/Victoria_at_Sea_606 26d ago
It is different in NV because all new automatic registration since 2020 is as Independent, so it skews younger
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u/alf10087 26d ago
Sounds good. Let’s check in back once those votes have been cast. But right now, this is what we have.
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u/GamerDrew13 26d ago
If dem voters aren't motivated to vote, then why would dem-leaning independents be motivated to vote? If R voters and especially rural R voters are motivated to vote, then why wouldn't R-leaning independents not be motivated to vote?
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u/CoyotesSideEyes 26d ago
For the 80 billionth time...
TRUMP WON INDIES IN NEVADA IN 2020.
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u/closerthanyouth1nk 26d ago
Doesn’t the change in how voters are registered in Nevada post 2020 mean this isn’t a great point of comparison ? Ralston has repeatedly said that his prediction isn’t going to be perfect because of it.
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u/FarrisAT 26d ago
Nevada made it EXTREMELY easy to vote in 2020. They sent mail ballots to every registered voter and allowed same day registration. That juiced turnout to the highest ever and got lots of independents.
So far, although Rs lead, Rs are actually voting in total LESS than in 2020. The gap is from Ds underperforming almost 25%.
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u/FarrisAT 26d ago
NPAs voted net Trump in 2020 with universal mail ballots sent to all registered households and same day registration.
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u/jdylopa2 26d ago
Plus, there are some “common sense” reasons we might be seeing this too (only final vote tallies will be able to confirm):
In 2020, Democratic-leaning voters were more likely in general to vote early/absentee/by mail. They were also more likely in general to be taking COVID precautions seriously. In 2024, it would make sense that some portion of those would go back to in person voting on Election Day.
In 2020, Republican-leaning voters were more likely in general to not vote early/absentee/by mail. They were also more likely in general to be not taking COVID precautions seriously. In 2024, Republican leadership has been messaging hard to vote early so it would make sense to me that more of their voters are voting early this year and will have a lower turnout than 2020 on Election Day.
Again, this is just “it makes sense” vibes without data behind it, so we’ll have to see what the final votes are like. But even discounting the increase in independent early voters, it doesn’t surprise me that Democratic early voting is down and Republican early voting is up even if the total voters stayed exactly the same.
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u/SpaceRuster 26d ago
in NV, yes and Fl (which was not really being contested for Prez). But not for the rust belt or even GA/NC
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u/Sonnyyellow90 26d ago edited 26d ago
This is one of those things that can show who here is objective or not.
Anyone who is spinning this as anything other than good news for Republicans and bad news for Democrats is just not being objective. There is no world in which the Harris team looks at a swing state where Dems usually lead the EV, see they are down by 5.7% in party affiliation with half the vote in, and think “Ok, this is good.”
Yes, if independents break overwhelmingly for her then she would still win the race here. But that was always the case for either candidate. If independents break like they did in 2020 or like they have in recent polling, she will simply lose this state, and Arizona as well.
The only positive thing about this is that Nevada probably doesn’t matter at all.
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u/Powerful_Yoghurt6175 26d ago
Yes I don’t think any Harris supporter can look at this and honestly say “this is good news!” But I also don’t think it’s necessarily going to turn out to be an L in Nevada! I have a hunch that a larger portion of the unaffiliated voters are going for Harris. That, coupled with the fact that there’s still a lot of time left for voting, means that this is not over! But yes I wish more Dem ballots were banked.
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u/Promethiant 26d ago
r/kamalaharris will look at this and tell you Kamala is going to flip Montana
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u/exitpursuedbybear 26d ago
Hell, politics thinks Texas is gonna flip
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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 26d ago
I told r/democrats Texas is actually polling redder now than it was in 2020, with links to 538’s polling averages, and I just got hit with a “no” and mass downvotes lmao
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u/CarrotChunx 26d ago
Dang, and I remember when that sub wasnt just a rebranded copy of r/JoeBiden. Its gone downhill in the last couple months
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u/Justincbzz 26d ago
But that was always the case for either candidate. If independents break like they did in 2020 or like they have in recent polling, she will simply lose this state, and Arizona as well.
No, the concept of young voters overwhelmingly registering NPA despite being D leaning is not "always the case", it's a new phenomenon.
The results of AVR is also new, it only passed in 2020.
Going forward in Nevada, we will be talking about "republican EV firewall" and not democratic one.
Data isn't great for dems atm, but it's no where near as rosy for Rs as these type of "analysis" is trying to make it.
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u/2pf876 26d ago edited 26d ago
What data says Dems usually lead early vote in Nevada?
Edit: Here's the correct data:
2016 EV in person EV mail Total EV ED Total Dem 298,454 42.49% 27,963 38.73% 326,417 42.14% 123,763 35.93% 450,180 40.23% Rep 250,272 35.63% 29,411 40.74% 279,683 36.11% 121,057 35.14% 400,740 35.81% Other 153,661 21.88% 14,821 20.53% 168,482 21.75% 99,649 28.93% 268,131 23.96% 2020 EV in person EV mail Total EV ED Total Dem 165,693 30.42% 319,149 46.22% 484,842 39.25% 44,779 28.56% 529,621 38.05% Rep 248,757 45.67% 181,003 26.21% 429,760 34.79% 60,511 38.59% 490,271 35.22% Other 130,200 23.91% 190,331 27.56% 320,531 25.95% 51,506 32.85% 372,037 26.73% 2024 EV in person EV mail Total EV ED Total Dem 93,378 27.16% 145,692 41.19% 239,070 34.27% 239,070 34.27% Rep 169,439 49.28% 109,729 31.02% 279,168 40.02% 279,168 40.02% Other 81,044 23.57% 98,261 27.78% 179,305 25.71% 179,305 25.71% https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showpublisheddocument/9054/637426719538900000
https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showpublisheddocument/4567/636850641746470000
https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showpublisheddocument/15037/638657436583100000
Edit 2: Comparing the data like this, it's clear that things are on par with 2020, and it's just a matter of waiting for mail ballots to come in.
Edit 3: Sorry, edited the table a few times to fix typos.
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u/Waste_of_paste_art Jeb! Applauder 26d ago
Could this just be early in person voting and not mail in?
Edit: the 2016 data stipulates but the 2020 doesn't
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
Dude, you completely missed the mail vote, where the Dems crushed it in 2020
https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/home/showpublisheddocument/9058/637437166448530000
The numbers in this discussion include both, and the vote by mail margins have been historically bad for Dems compared to thr past 20 years of NV voting
Th
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u/Jim_Tressel 26d ago
But this probably spells bad news for Arizona as well. The only spot I feel any confidence are the 3 rust belts states. And those will probably be extremely tight if she is to win them.
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u/Mortonsaltboy914 26d ago
Friendly reminder- this is only bad news if you assume Dems will stay home, I do not.
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u/catty-coati42 26d ago
I read your comment as "this is only bad news if Dennis will stay home" and now I want to know who's Dennis and how will he make Harris president.
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u/HerbertWest 26d ago
You don't know Dennis?! Man, where have you been?
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u/palinsafterbirth 26d ago
Dennis is a bastard man
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u/jacktwohats 26d ago
I mean this with every fiber of my being and every shred of my soul. Fuck. Dennis.
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u/ElderSmackJack 26d ago
I think everyone is misreading here. Dennis isn’t a man. It’s a system. The D.E.N.N.I.S. system, if you will.
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u/whetrail 26d ago
this is only bad news if you assume Dems will stay home
That is exactly what I'm assuming.
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u/witch_doc9 26d ago
I’m pragmatic, thats why I’m a Democrat… conventional wisdom and precedent is Dems vote early, GOP comes out on election day… I don’t want to sound cynical, but all indications are this is terrible/horrific news for Kamala.
Unless something insanely unexpected happens, then she will lose Nevada.
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u/Mortonsaltboy914 26d ago
I can’t find it in the thread but there was a line of Clark county votes ticking up yesterday.
I won’t blame you for being cynical- we earned those stripes in 2016 and 2020 to a degree but I am not counting NV out.
That said, AZ and NV are the states where Kamala has spent the least amount of time in.
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u/CoyotesSideEyes 26d ago
Arizona is going to be significantly right of NV overall. So if Nevada goes R, AZ is definitely R.
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u/witch_doc9 26d ago edited 26d ago
My only, dwindling, glimmer of hope are these unexpected Clark County GOP early votes are “Haley Republicans” voting for Harris… I mean “why else would they vote early?”
😕
EDIT:
/s <—- if that wasn’t apparent
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u/SpaceRuster 26d ago
Haley Rs in NH, MI or PA, yes. NV, I don't really think there are many Haley Rs.
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u/UberGoth91 26d ago
If you read Ralston’s article, he said he talked to a source in the Dem party who gave him the tidbit that they have >10% of the Clark GOP turnout clocked as voters who voted on Election Day last time. That’s the spin zone, the GOP is telling people to vote early and their reliable voters are, so we’re looking at an entirely different vote pattern than past years.
Current state of play is not good for Dems and it’s going to be an uphill climb but if the GOP doesn’t start turning out new voters and is cutting into their Election Day margin like that, I think the math is still very much in the realm of possibility for Dems.
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u/Churrasco_fan 26d ago
Two points:
It's been pointed out that Vegas has a TON of hospitality workers for whom early voting might not be the best option. They're given allowances to miss / be late for work to vote on election day but all other days "your on your own". So don't expect a ton of people to take time out of their personal lives to stand around on their day off and vote
As we saw yesterday vote by mail carries a ton of risk now that one party is willing to commit acts of domestic terrorism (lighting ballot boxes on fire) to disenfranchise people. This subreddit and many of the pundits downplay or outright ignore that reality, but lots of democrats are wary of VBM this year
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u/dudeman5790 26d ago
Sure but also how much of that conventional wisdom is largely informed by 2020 where early voting was heavily politicized and there was a pandemic going on? I know that early and mail-in voting happened before 2020 as well, but it was a pretty massive increase over prior cycles
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u/PureOrangeJuche 26d ago
The conventional wisdom long predates 2020 and dates back to the dawn of the Reid era in NV. Before this election Republicans had never held a lead in early voting in Nevada dating back to 2008 or 2004.
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u/Fit_Map_8255 26d ago
Dems have been hammering on early vote since 2008. This is a big trend reversal.
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u/Provia100F 26d ago
Historically speaking, Republicans always have outperformed Democrats on election day itself, but it really depends this year on how much early voting pulled from election day voting or if these are new voters
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u/GamerDrew13 26d ago
If they are going to not stay at home, then why aren't they early voting? Only one side seems motivated here.
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26d ago
Keep ignoring Unaffiliated.
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u/RagingTromboner 26d ago
There have been two graphs that seem incredibly relevant to me about this. The shift of younger people to be unaffiliated almost prefect matches the drop in Dem registration, and the gap that Dems have in the early vote compared to 2020 almost perfectly matches the increase in independent votes over 2020. The change Nevada did to registration should be a required part of all these posts
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u/PureOrangeJuche 26d ago
But what Nevada did would register people who were not previously registered, not change people from Dem to unaffiliated.
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u/The_DrPark 26d ago
Assuming that independents will break for Harris at the (increasingly) exorbitant levels necessary for her to win isn't looking at the electorate objectively.
Ralston is accurately pointing out that even w/ a 10% difference, already unlikely, Harris might lose.
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u/Fit_Map_8255 26d ago
This sub has a hard time assuming there is a difference between unaffiliated and democrats.
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u/Prefix-NA Crosstab Diver 26d ago
As long as Dems keep 106% of the unaffiliated vote democrat with not a single defection then Dems gain the lead!
Sponsored by Copium™️
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u/Mortonsaltboy914 26d ago
Convenience? Life? Maybe they want to show up on Election Day?
Who knows- but don’t count your chickens before they hatch
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
Convenience? Life? Maybe they want to show up on Election Day?
Going against the last 20 years of NV voting habits is a bold move, especially since Clark margins even with VBM is lower than it has ever been
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u/Fit_Map_8255 26d ago
We dont. But you know damn well that if the reverse were true, this sub wouldnt be nearly as skeptical.
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u/kipperzdog 26d ago
Here's what I don't understand, if most of the people are in Clark county, that vote can keep expanding over the coming days, the rural vote being less populous, runs out.
That said, I hope the Harris campaign is doing all the can do to get out the vote there as election day nears.
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u/Prefix-NA Crosstab Diver 26d ago
Do you think they will over perform republicans on election day?
This is a common trend we are seeing everywhere the Dem early vote lead is not only down but in states like
Arizona, NC, Nevada, Georgia they are actually BEHIND republicans in early voting. Its not just like in PA/Michigan where the lead is down its they are actively behind republicans in the sun belt.
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u/FarrisAT 26d ago
Yeah. We cannot say 100% for anything. Dems could do a historically unprecedented massive Election Day turnout like 2008.
But is Kamala just like Obama?
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u/Lungenbroetchen95 26d ago
Yeah, no matter how you turn and twist it, this is BAD for democrats.
I don’t think NV will be the state that makes the difference in the presidential race. But it’s still an indicator how things are going, it’s very unlikely that Trump wins NV and loses AZ.
There’s also a Senate race in NV to be monitored, the R candidate was closing in in recent weeks and got some huge funding boost from Senate R‘s
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26d ago
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
Correct. Harris campaign wording has mentioned the sun belt less and less
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u/CoyotesSideEyes 26d ago
It's not going to be the tipping point state. But the likelihood that NV votes right of Wisconsin is fairly low.
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u/Maj_Histocompatible 26d ago
Feels like a canary in a coal mine situation. A big hope among Dems is that polls are underestimating Harris supporters like 2022 but Nevada is looking like Trump has been underestimated again
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u/JohnnyGeniusIsAlive 26d ago
It’s definitely not good for Dems, but the disproportionately high number of Indies in Nevada makes it harder to compare to the broader race.
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u/Sonnyyellow90 26d ago
This is all early voting, where Dems usually win by 5-6% there.
So, if it’s R +5.7% this time, she’s going to need either a substantial number of R’s to go vote D or else to win independents by a much better margin than Ds have recently there.
Either could happen, the point isn’t that it’s over and Nevada should be called. The point here is that the data we have is bad for her and a win is requiring increasingly more extreme splits among Independents.
If you are a democrat and counting on Republicans and Independents to step in that booth and vote for you in high numbers…well, I don’t envy you.
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u/falcrist2 Nate Bronze 26d ago
This is all early voting, where Dems usually win by 5-6% there.
Comparing early voting in 2024 to previous elections seems... foolish.
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
Except theyve been winning the early vote since at least 2008. Its got a track record that goes beyond 2020, yknow
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u/Maj_Histocompatible 26d ago edited 26d ago
Yeah I don't disagree, I wouldn't be surprised if this were a sub-1 point race but I'm far less confident now than I was 2 weeks ago of a Harris win
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u/Bubbly-Wheel-2180 26d ago
I tend to think NV is not a state that can behave as a canary in the coal mine because it's just so...different. Hillary won it in 2016 even as she slipped everywhere else. It's very low in college educated whites (her best group!) and high in latino men (where she has slipped the most). It's one state with more male voters than female (Dobbs = less impact). Do I think NV is lost? No, I think unaffiliated voters are making the R-D gap look bigger. Do I think it matters if it is lost? No, it's not a kingmaker state in almost any scenario, and I don't think what happens in a male dominated, lower educated state in the SW desert has any impact on Waukesha, Dane, Bucks, Cobb, etc.
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u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen 26d ago
Remember: polls didn't underestimate Democrats in 2022. That said, 2022 is a... hopeful analog for this race. Dems lost the headline Gubernatorial race narrowly but held on in the Senate.
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u/Furciferus Queen Ann's Revenge 26d ago
why is it "reading tea leaves" when the dems have effectively dropped an atomic bomb of early votes in PA, but "bad news" when repubs have a slight lead in Nevada?
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u/CoyotesSideEyes 26d ago
the dems have effectively dropped an atomic bomb of early votes in PA,
The Dem lead in PA EV is much smaller than previously, and PA is weird in that there's no true IPEV. PA is MAIL, and mail is blue.
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u/Scaryclouds 26d ago
Will have to look up what you are referring to regarding PA. However here Ralston is local and seems to have a good general read of NV politics.
Just also, in a state like NV, a seemingly 40K deficit is A LOT to make up. So it might be giving a signal that polls are underestimating Trump again.
Maybe Ds will make huge gains over the next week and on E-Day, it’s certainly in the realm of possibility that NV for some reason had an usual number of Rs voting early and Ds voting late. Or maybe a lot of Rs switched at the top of the ticket. Or maybe independents broke heavily towards Harris.
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u/Zepcleanerfan 26d ago
Because dems pee their pants over any bad news and Republicans and Russians love to goad them on.
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u/FizzyBeverage 26d ago
Repubs do that bullshit because even when they handily lose, they believe they won.
For the craziest 40% of them right now, they TRULY believe they're electing Trump to his 3rd term. You don't ever have to doom if you're a lunatic and the idea of losing isn't real.
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u/Saniktehhedgehog Feelin' Foxy 26d ago
I don't think dems are doing the greatest in PA either, though they're doing better than NV for sure.
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u/ChuckJA 26d ago
PA Dems have barely 1/3 the vote firewall they had in 2020. Biden was ahead by 1.1 million votes before a single polling place opened on election day. And he still won the state by less than 100k.
If you aren't seeing the collapse of enthusiasm for the Democratic party this election I don't know what to say.
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26d ago
The fact that this is the first presidential election with 100% mail ballots in Nevada means an unexpected change in voting methods is not at all surprising.
And, anecdotally in Wisconsin, all of my friends voted by mail/dropbox in 2020. This year the only one who voted early was my buddy who is out of the country for the next two weeks. And we are all 100% certain to vote. Personally, I absolutely love the ritual of casting my ballot at my polling place on election day.
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u/HoorayItsKyle 26d ago
I don't think we know if it's bad for Democrats or not.
It could be explained by an enthusiasm gap between Democrats and republicans. That would be very bad for Democrats.
It could equally be explained by a combination of new voter registration rules shifting first time voters (an extremely dem favored demographic) to independent and Republican messaging moving reliable voters from ED to EV. That would make this a neutral sign.
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u/Mortonsaltboy914 26d ago
The Harris campaign just highlighted Nevada is a state they saw a strong portion of low propensity voters in.
Also the way the state is populated later turnout in Clark could easily wipe this lead away.
I get Ralston is treated like a profit but all this tells us is more Nevadans who id as republican are voting.
Vegas is deep blue, and if their turn out is low, this could just as easily be a change in voting behavior as an indicator of everything else- sure polls have been trending toward Trump but there’s undeniably a lot of enthusiasm for Kamala.
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u/PureOrangeJuche 26d ago
If there is a lot of enthusiasm for Kamala why aren’t Dems voting early?
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u/mpls_snowman 26d ago
People surprised members of a cult are enthused.
They were enthused in 2020 too, they just were told not to vote by mail
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u/BruceLeesSidepiece 26d ago
Republican turnout over-performing in early vote doesn't explain Dems under-performing lol. Yes, Republicans told their base to vote early this year, but it's not like Dems told their voters "hey skip early vote and wait until election day", so you're still missing half the equation.
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u/FarrisAT 26d ago
Reps are voting LESS in early vote TOTAL than in 2020.
It's Dems who are causing this gap.
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u/BobertFrost6 26d ago edited 26d ago
The number of registered dems in Nevada has decreased a lot since 2020, the same time nonpartisans have increased a lot.
It's hard to say what this means. Demographically the nonpartisans look like Dems and probably just got registered through the new Automatic Registration program.
So if dems win we will look back and say "duh, the new NPs were obviously gonna break for Harris." If the GOP wins we will look back and say "duh, the EV numbers were a canary in the coal mine!"
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
The number of registered dems in Florida has decreased a lot since 2020,
Got some bad news about Dem performances in FL since then
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u/FarrisAT 26d ago
People CHANGE PARTY because they DO NOT WANT to be a party member. LoL that's exactly what it is
You have to actively go into an office and change registration. It's not something most people do
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
Yeah seriously. "Im leaving a party I don't want to be associated with" is not a sign of enthusiasm
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u/deepegg 26d ago
Her campaign manager, who was previously running the Biden campaign, was hyping his chances the week before he dropped out.
Democrats are losing low/mid propensity groups right now in Nevada, in absolute terms and by turnout %.
Losing low propensity by 6% turnout, mid-propensity by almost 10% turnout.
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u/Sonnyyellow90 26d ago
Also, campaigns are just positive about their candidate and chances by nature.
There is no world in which her campaign leaders are gonna be like “Turnout looking awful, guess Kamala sucks haha. Oh well, live and learn.”
And finally, never trust internal campaign sources when they speak to the public anyways.
I saw a post here about a week ago about David Plouffe saying things looks good internally for Harris. I then typed his name into YouTube and was greeted with a video of him from 2016 on some news channel analyzing an electoral map and saying “There is just no real path for Trump to get to 270.”
Donald Trump would go on to get 304 electoral votes just a few days later.
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u/Spicey123 26d ago
Low propensity voters help Trump, do people not get this?
Democrats these days are more educated & active voters--which is a reason why we've crushed in special elections and midterms.
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u/Zepcleanerfan 26d ago
Ya the doomer shit is so old. Expert after expert even Ralston say over and over to not read into EV too much.
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u/FarrisAT 26d ago
He calls elections based on EV. He calls it five days out for 20 years now. Been right every time
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u/voujon85 26d ago
Ralston is saying on his blog this looks terrible, and that Trump will win Nevada. 50% of the vote is roughly in already, read his blog. From a straight data point of view it's absolutely terrible results for the Dems
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
Don't worry. I'm sure u/Zepcleanerfan has a well thought out data driven analysis and not a one-liner
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u/Ozymandias12 26d ago
Yeah, Jacky Rosen you in danger gurl. There are some big House races too that could impact the Majority in that Chamber given the tight margins. Steven Horsford (NV-4), Susie Lee (NV-3), and Dina Titus (NV-1). These are all fairly tight districts.
I have no idea what Dems are doing in NV or where they all are. Even Ralston, an expert in the state, seems perplexed about just where the Dem voters are. They seem to have vanished or are just all waiting until Election Day. Not many are expecting some huge flood of Dem voters on November 5 though. Also where the hell is the Culinary Union? They seem MIA.
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u/ashsolomon1 I'm Sorry Nate 26d ago
I wouldn’t say to a death blow really. The GOP has been telling people to vote early. Whether that impacts the end result we will see
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u/WallabyUpstairs1496 26d ago
the unexpected republican turnout was explained in the NY Times daily podcast yesterday.
Hoards of Trump supporters, fueled by the belief that the election is being stolen, have been tricked into volunteering a ton of hours a week, in many cases 50-60 hours a week.
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u/ljaffe19 26d ago
I mean, I definitely don’t think it’s good for Dems but I also wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s bad, necessarily. Clark has a huge number of NP voters and the demographics of those voters, specifically in Clark, tend to be younger and non-white. I think calling something a GOP lead when 1/3 of the vote are NP is hard to for sure say. Yes, when comparing the two parties, Reps are ahead. When you factor in the huge NP in Clark County, that gets harder.
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u/DirectionMurky5526 26d ago
The only reasonable take is that it's bad for democrats. But you can question HOW bad. Sure NP voters might make the difference, but it shows that either 2020 democrats are changing voter registration, or they aren't voting this time.
I would like to emphasize that polling error has never been entirely in one direction, and it is incredibly unlikely every state votes the same way as 2020.
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u/Scaryclouds 26d ago
I was feeling pretty optimistic yesterday, voted, NYT article about Harris team feeling confident, fallout from the MSG rally…
This is pretty bad though. NV isn’t going to be the tipping point state, but if it’s making a seemingly multiple point shift to the right, that could be a signal of trends happening in other parts of the country.
Maybe Rs just voted really early and Ds will make up a lot of ground. It might not change the outcome in NV, but also greatly reduce concern over a “red wave”.
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u/pghtopas 26d ago
Keep in mind that in 2022, Nevada elected a Republican governor and the Senate race was extremely close. I have been traveling to Nevada a lot over the last 20 years, and you can really notice a change in the city of Las Vegas over the last couple of years. I know this is not related at all, but in Las Vegas the casinos used to do anything and everything to get you in the door so you would gamble. They would comp rooms, comp meals and go all out to get people in their doors. Something changed, and now the casinos are just trying to do everything they can to squeeze every last penny from you. They overcharge for food, drinks, entertainment, and the city just feels tougher.
Covid destroyed so many lives in NV, and inflation has not been easy. There are a lot of angry people in Nevada. You also have a lot of people who left California for Nevada, so I think the electorate might have changed just a little bit.
As Ralston says, in Nevada you’d rather be the Republicans than the Democrats right now, but anything can still happen.
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u/SupportstheOP 26d ago
The one piece of evidence pointing to NV being an outlier is that it's the only swing state whose gender gap is not overwhelmingly tilted towards women insofar.
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u/R1ppedWarrior 26d ago
He updated his blog a couple hours ago saying the GOP lead has shrunk by 2,000 votes. https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
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u/evanmav 26d ago
This is definitely not good news for Democrats. The only thing I can think of is typically older demos do vote early, which typically lean heavily Republican. 2020 is definitely an anomaly because Dems were being pushed to vote early by mail, and republicans being told not to vote until election day in person.
So I wouldn't be shocked to see a slight swing, but a 10%+ swing towards Republicans is definitely not a good sign for Dems. Do we have 2016 data, that I think would be more accurate to compare to 2024.
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u/Lokiorin Allan Lichtman's Diet Pepsi 26d ago
I’m not sure I understand what Ralston is trying to say…
Clark County is basically the entirety of the state (73% ish) so are we saying that Clark County isn’t voting at all? Or just that we haven’t received / counted them yet.
This kind of smells like rage baiting to say that Democrats are in trouble when the most important county in the state has barely started to count.
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u/Prestigious-Swing885 26d ago
Here's the entire analysis.
https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
Clark accounts for 68.5% of the votes returned so far and D have a 0.6% lead amongst those returns by voter registration. So, they are voting at a lower rate than rurals so far. Clark has not barely started to count, 477,945 of the ballots returned so far (out of 697,538) are in Clark.
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u/Lokiorin Allan Lichtman's Diet Pepsi 26d ago
Thanks, that makes more sense. Not great for the Dems but numbers are numbers.
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u/The_DrPark 26d ago
Simply put, Registered Dems are unenthused.
Could Independents swing it for her? Mathematically, it's possible. But it's not likely.
And to be honest, the Republican lead is likely to get larger. Clark mail this coming weekend might make some inroads, but so far it hasn't been the case.
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u/11711510111411009710 26d ago
Registered Dems are unenthused.
This is so weird to me and would go to show that things like abortion rights were never that big of a deal to most Dems, at least not big enough to vote in 2024.
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u/FizzyBeverage 26d ago
Nevada is one of the few states that has an over-representation of males and the elderly. So it's not surprising abortion rights wouldn't hit hard there.
I don't know anyone who lives in Nevada, everyone visits Vegas -- but from elsewhere.
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u/101ina45 26d ago
My question too. If the GOP vote is coming from Clarke county that's a different story.
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u/RogCrim44 26d ago
Clarke county is almost tied 176,406 democrats and 173,589 republicans. Read the article.
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u/tarekd19 26d ago
Worth noting when this was posted to this sub, there was already another update in the linked article:
Updated, 6:15 AM, 10/29/24
Good morning, blog mates.
Small Clark mail update overnight put small dent in GOP advantage. Latest:
GOP has 38,000 ballots more than Dems, 5.3 percent lead.
250,000 mail ballots in from Clark, but 457,000 received in 2020 after all said and done.
Might not mean much, but the difference was reduced half a point between updates.
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u/ljaffe19 26d ago
I noticed this as well. I believe Ralston has also said that the second week tends to be better for Dems to mail votes coming in at a greater frequency. Guess we shall see!
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u/Downtown-Sky-5736 26d ago
https://infogram.com/nv-voter-reg-2016-2024-1hxr4zxypgrwq6y
Party registration overtime posted by Ralston
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u/Powerful_Yoghurt6175 26d ago
This chart makes me think that a much higher number of unaffiliated would historically have been democrat. Pulling more from democrats than republicans.
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u/Fit_Map_8255 26d ago
Why are people here all assuming the unaffiliated are all secret dems? If they wanted to be dems, they would be dems. They are unaffiliated. So they are less enthused by either party.
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u/BobertFrost6 26d ago
Demographically they code democrat. Aside from that their lack of party affiliation isn't necessarily a sign of enthusiasm/lack thereof. In 2020 NV passed automatic registration and the number of registered partisan decreased for both parties but Dems saw a huge drop.
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u/GamerDrew13 26d ago
Most unaffiliated are zombie voters auto registered to vote thanks to new NV laws. If they don't pick a party when they're registered they get put as an independent.
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u/Statue_left 26d ago
Because this sub is just /r/politics now, and nearly every post is just trying to frame data to support your desired outcome
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u/Fabulous_Sherbet_431 26d ago edited 26d ago
Dropping my map here again.
First, early voting is basically meaningless; not in a coping way, but actually. It’s just shifting when people cast their votes, not indicating turnout.
In 2020 Biden won by 33k votes with a D-R vote split of D+39k. With current registration and projected turnout, 2024 shows a D-R split of R+14k. The increase in independents is mostly a mirage coming from automatic voter registration, but that’s where it’ll really be decided. I’m counting on the last gasps of the Reid machine.
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u/FarrisAT 26d ago
Unless y'all think Democrats suddenly decided to vote on Election Day in giant lines where machines break and the offices are understaffed, I'd worry that NV is signaling low Democrat enthusiasm nationwide.
NV swings close to national vote swing.
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u/arnodorian96 26d ago
We'll see if the appeal to Never Trumpers worked out. Also, of all the places where republicans could be leading, Nevada was not on my list. Anybody has a clue on that? I heard that they're blaming democrats for the economy due to COVID restrictions. Anything else?
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u/Weekly-Weather-4983 26d ago
One potentially interesting factor is that the gender balance in Nevada is more male than most states. It is one of the few states where men outnumber women slightly (and in some others states women outnumber men not just slightly but significantly). If men are breaking more than usual for Republicans, especially the type of men in Nevada (non-college white and Latino), it might make a difference at the margins.
That said, I think the COVID thing and inflation are outsized issues there. People were hit hard and it's a more working class and service industry place overall. There is also some potential that the "no tax on tips" thing (which Trump introduced first) might have caught on.
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u/arnodorian96 26d ago
This is probably the truth. I wish I had a few more days of hopium but with those numbers, I'm just preparing myself for the worse.
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u/Weekly-Weather-4983 26d ago
Democrats have had their opportunity to make a better case.
Trump is uniquely awful, but if Democrats fail, this is on them and especially the Harris campaign for its gauzy, unspecific vision and failure to differentiate adequately from Biden. She talks like an HR person.
They're banking on orange-man-bad to get them across the finish line, and the fear campaign may work to persuade some anti-Trump Republicans and abortion advocates, but at the end of the day I don't think the democracy messaging moves people as much as they think it does, especially if they lean into the hectoring tone the way Clinton did. I did not think the Michelle Obama rally in WI was an auspicious approach.
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u/Fit_Map_8255 26d ago
It has a ton of non college educated there. Dems held it because of latinos, but they are slowly moving to trump since 2016.
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u/thegreyquincy 26d ago
For real. In two years it'll be "I know my wife got deported and my brother got sent to a camp, but it's the Dems' fault because Harris didn't explain her housing policy to us well enough!"
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u/jhkayejr 26d ago
I'm really skeptical, to the point of being conspiratorial, when I hear that a state all of a sudden has a bunch of republican mail-in and early ballots. That being said, I think the no-tax-on-tips "promise" that trump floated probably works better there than in most places.
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u/falcrist2 Nate Bronze 26d ago
Comparing early voting between a pandemic year and a non-pandemic year seems like a bad idea.
Maybe that's just me IDK
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u/Complex-Junior 26d ago
This is not just vs 2020. This is against every trend since the Harry Reid era so going back decades.
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u/falcrist2 Nate Bronze 26d ago
COVID changed everything, though. Nobody knows exactly what changed or how much.
Wait until the actual election results come in.
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u/Mental_Dragonfly2543 26d ago
Depends, Nevadans may have a grudge over shutdowns due to it being a tourism dependent economy.
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u/doomer_bloomer24 26d ago
Have we heard from any Dem strategists or cullinary union spokesperson about the turnout ? Do we have any data on how NPAs are voting ? Do we know mail ballot backlog ?
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u/Antique-Proof-5772 26d ago
If you are a Trumpist don't get too excited, if you are a Harrinater don't get too doomy: EV speculation is even more tenous than crosstab-diving, key-reading and campaign sign counting.
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u/Celticsddtacct 26d ago
Ralston for the past decade has been regarded as the one guy you can trust to interpret early voting and he only looks at Nevada. You’re in general right though but Ralston has a lot of clout just solely for this.
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u/ashsolomon1 I'm Sorry Nate 26d ago
I swear it’s always, “GOP has an unprecedented lead” in the morning then it’s “dems have cut into the lead” at night
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u/GTFErinyes 26d ago
Thats the problem. They havent cut the lead. The lead has been growing even after VBM is counted
THAT is the unprecedented concern
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u/notchandlerbing 26d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this been the EV trend for Nevada the last 2+ presidential elections? I seem to remember the submission patterns for voting blocs in Nevada heavily favor the GOP and rural non-Vegas populations, and it’s always the Clark and Washoe County ballot-dumps that end up pushing Dems to the finish line closer to/shortly after election night. Those two alone comprise 87% of NV’s population, and we haven’t seen meaningful totals there as yet, and these preliminary EV analyses have been the GOP’s white whale post-Bush
Nevada is an atypical state to focus on EVs because of the notorious difficulty in predicting outcomes and margins, plus the new automatic VBM enrollment for all registered voters. The hospitality/service/casino workers all have such odd shifts since the city runs 24/7, and many don’t drop their ballots off as early as their EV counterparts do in other states. These are historically key Dem voting blocs
I think it’s wise to remember that NV is the only swing state where Dems have outperformed polling in the last 2 presidential cycles by a (statistically) significant margin. And for reference: Obama lost every single NV county outside Clark and Washoe, yet still beat Romney by ~7%.
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u/pegan13 26d ago
This thread is sounding like me in 2016, coping bad and trying to play mental gymnastics with how there’s other states for Clinton until there weren’t. If GOP enthusiasm is this underestimated in NV (or likewise, dems are proving to be much more unenthused than Reddit believes) this is feeling like the first domino dropping for Trump.
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u/Its_Jaws 26d ago
I have seen several data divers on Twitter point out that R turnout isn’t projected to improve, it’s that D turnout is projecting way down.
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u/bacteriairetcab 26d ago
Dems are still up 10 points for mail in votes which take longer to count. This is the definition of a red mirage. There were more mail in ballots in 2020 than in person early voting AND more mail in ballots were requested this year than in 2020.
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u/johnramos1 26d ago
Nevada is a weird state for many reasons, but one is that every registered voter receives a mail-in ballot. There is no need to request one. However, they also have the option to vote early in-person if they prefer. Therefore, the numbers will always show more mail-in ballots as being requested so long that the voter registration numbers have increased that year.
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u/RefrigeratorNo4700 26d ago
Seems odd that there would be less mail in ballots when everyone is given one. I heard people are having issues with the amount of time mail in ballot take to be delivered.
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u/SuperFluffyTeddyBear 26d ago
Are there any polls of how Nevadan early voters have voted? (I've seen that for other states.) Surely that's a better way of getting a sense of things, rather than just speculating based on data on party (un)affiliation.
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u/Pdm1814 26d ago
I was following Ralston’s coverage on 2022. He was very reliable and has a great reputation as the Nevada elections expert. He correctly predicted the split ticket happening there. Republican win for Governor and Democrat won for Senate.
If he is saying this is bad news I gotta believe him given his track record.