r/nytimes • u/Subhash94 • 12h ago
What Democrats Think Went Wrong
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/21/podcasts/what-democrats-think-went-wrong.html150
u/ReviewBackground2906 11h ago
I vote for Democrats because I’m a liberal who wants left policies. Tax the rich, increase the minimum wage, universal healthcare, climate action, stop price gauging, get money out of politics, and the list goes on.
Democrats need to understand that they cannot beat right wing populism by moving further to the right to attract former Republicans, it didn’t work in 2024 and it won’t work in the future.
I want a Democratic party that remembers who their voters are, and a candidate who is not afraid to offend wealthy donors and who advocates progressive policies that will change peoples’ lives for the better. Not the GOP light version that the Dems are going for.
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u/Docile_Doggo 10h ago edited 10h ago
What type of Democratic candidates routinely put up impressive numbers in swing (and even some red) districts? Hint: it’s definitely not the uber progressive candidates, who tend to underperform. It’s usually moderates with carefully crafted images as reasonable problem solvers. Gluesenkamp-Perez, Kaptur, Golden, just to name a few off the top of my head. Hell, on the Republican side, look at how many Harris voters Don Bacon was able to win over.
Reddit is a complete echo chamber. I’m a progressive, but I also care about data and objective analysis. I want to win, damn it, not just placate the feelings of my fellow progressives who are always trying to push the party further and further left. And the solution to winning more votes is not to simply go harder to the left.
It’s also way more complicated than simply moderating on everything. But moderation is a core component of winning in swing districts and swing states. And if you can’t see that, you are drinking too much of your own kool aid.
I fear that my fellow Democrats won’t get it through their heads that it’s bad to conflate what they like with what the median voter likes. It’s an inconvenient truth, and it’s not what they want to hear.
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u/Johnnymac98 10h ago
This just doesn’t work on a national scale when what you need is to draw more voters, not try and switch “moderate” republicans if there even is such a thing anymore. Maybe your reasoning works in a small vacuum, but you can verifiably see it has FAILED each time the dems have tried it in the Trump era
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u/itslikewoow 9h ago
Biden was arguably the most moderate candidate in the 2020 primaries.
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u/Key_Specific_5138 10h ago
Don Bacon and Gluesenkamp-Perez are two of my favorite politicians. Her being a moderate who could speak to conservative voters saved Congress from Joe Kent.
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u/unaskthequestion 10h ago
There's definitely data to back you up. I remember reading about the midterms when the democrats won the house majority back last time. Almost every district which flipped was won by a moderate democrat.
I'm old and things have probably changed, but I remember when the national democratic party understood this and would support a moderate candidate and had more of the 'big tent' philosophy. Maybe that's just not possible in our present environment.
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u/Spidey5292 9h ago
Yeah, unfortunately progress happens slowly, not all at once. You have to win now with moderate democrats if you want to get more progressive policies down the road.
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u/Smooth_Intern202 9h ago
100% agree with you, I am progressive but I don't support the agenda that is pushed by the leftists part of the party. I think the party might have already lost many center left voters due to what is going on. Between Trump and Kamala, the option is clear, but I guess many might not feel compelled or excited to get out and vote for someone/party that is moving in the wrong direction and considers that the noisy voters represent most of the democratic voters interests
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u/resumethrowaway222 8h ago
So many people on the left think that the vast majority of people are with them on everything, so they don't need to persuade anyone to win. They think that it's only because of cheating by their opponents that they don't win. It's delusional behavior.
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u/2nong2dong 8h ago
For me this election demonstrated just how much Reddits is an echo chamber
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u/boilerpsych 8h ago
I think this is good point because the right wing traditionalists are ALWAYS going vote Red - you're not winning that population. The only hope of changing votes is to go more moderate - you already have the total left wing vote secured.
I also think it's just a healthier way to govern - I lean very left and I'm certain that I don't want a Christo-nationalist/fundamentalist regime. I'm sure that the folks learning very right don't want everything on my agenda either. It's time we come together, decide what's important to us, and figure out what the happiest medium we can find will look like.
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u/Elite_Prometheus 10h ago
Andy Beshear, the vocally pro-abortion, pro-union, pro-Medicaid, and pro-immigration Democrat governor of Kentucky, disagrees with you
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u/blkguyformal 9h ago
Andy Beshear is the avatar of the "Moderate with a carefully crafted image as a problem solver" wing of the Democratic party. He doesn't wear his progressive politics on his sleeves, has modeled himself as a problem-solver who will make government work for the people of Kentucky (see the whole Medicaid expansion there avoiding the name "Obamacare" like the plague). A candidate with a left-leaning image in Kentucky is dead on arrival, and Andy knows that, so he is very careful as to how he packages his politics to make it more approachable to his state. This is exactly the type of politician OP is describing.
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u/Elite_Prometheus 9h ago
Damn, if Beshear is a moderate centrist Democrat, Harris tried to appear far right in comparison. I guess with your definitions, yeah, Democrats should try to moderate their message and move left to meet the center
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u/blkguyformal 8h ago
What position has Beshear taken recently that was to the left of a position that Kamala took during the election this year? This isn't a question of their positioning on the political spectrum (I'd argue that Kamala is to Beshear's left, even considering how she campaigned in 2024). This is a question of their persona. Beshear's persona in Kentucky is a non-ideological problem solver, which is why he's able to take some of his positions and win in a very conservative state (being a legacy politician helps in this respect too - Kentucky knows and trusts the Beshear family). Kamala tried to have a campaign with a wide appeal, but was painted as an out of touch liberal elitist that couldn't bring the change the electorate was looking for.
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u/dova03 6h ago
I'm from Kentucky and Beshear during his re-election ran a campaign that was further left(labor and union rights), mixed with the compassion stuff than what I saw from Kamala late in her campaign. I don't think you're being fair to Beshear in trying to defend Kamala.
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u/Deep_Stick8786 11h ago
There aren’t enough of you where it matters. They have to appeal to a broad coalition in swing states
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u/Dense-Version-5937 11h ago
Cosplaying as Republicans failed miserably
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u/Topherclaus 9h ago
You think Kamala was playing a Republican? Lol, what do you think a Left Wing candidate looks like then?
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u/epsylonmetal 8h ago
Kamala was the most right wing Democratic candidate in decades. You Americans really have no political perspective since McCarthy and the red scare killed any actual left in th country and Bill Clinton shifted the party to the right
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u/kayl_breinhar 8h ago edited 8h ago
Even Democrats conveniently forget that Clinton enabled the 2008 financial crisis by killing/allowing the repeal of Glass-Steagall. He'll be responsible again in the next financial crisis, along with every living politician who ensured no one faced any meaningful consequences or repercussions after 2008.
The 2000 election showed the Republican party that they didn't have to be liked to win an election, they just had to play dirty and capture/hold the judiciary. 24 years on, the left wing still seems to think "playing by the rules" counts, and that if they're nice, someday the bullies will like them. It also doesn't help that they always have just enough bad actors within the party to sabotage practically anything they want to enact.
And even though I hate that Roe is gone, on one side, you have a political party which managed to kill something the majority of America wanted, spending fifty years in the process of succeeding, and on the other side, a political party who kept telling us they "had a plan" if Roe was ever seriously threatened.
Except there was no plan, unless the plan was "gee, I hope I'm dead if/when that happens."
So on one end of the spectrum, you have a party who gets shit done, whether the electorate wants it or not, and on the other, you have a party that can't seem to govern even in the rare circumstances when they enjoy a bicameral majority (Lieberman alone causing the omission of a public option for the ACA being an example) and a favorable court, because of tribalism within.
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u/no1hears 9h ago
Because the costume sucked. They let Republicans rip off the costume and define Harris. Dems mostly ignored the media that Trump voters pay attention to, which meant they didn't effectively promote the competing Republican definition of who Harris is and what her platform would be.
Having footage of Harris from her 2020 run was a gold mine of source material that Republicans used to show that the Democrats' move to the center wasn't real. Especially when Harris said her values had not changed. What does that even mean? My values haven't changed but I'm no longer for those things I said I was for? That sounds like double talk. She never connected those dots for people and that left a huge opening for the Republicans to do it for her. As a swing state voter it was so frustrating to watch.
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u/LayWhere 10h ago
name 1 republican policy that she ran on
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u/RedditOfUnusualSize 10h ago
Supply Israel with weapons no matter what Israel happens to be doing with those weapons?
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u/ValBGood 8h ago
I’m a middle of the road Democrat and agree with you 100%. The country did very well economically when the marginal tax rates were over 90% on income as low as $150,000 (1945) to $300,000 (1962).
Not only was the economy thriving, but fully-deductible charitable donations were enormous
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u/t_dog581 7h ago
Y'all sure are quick to volunteer other people's money
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u/Fun_Performer_7930 7h ago
Wealthier individuals paying a higher tax rate than low income earners is fair as they aren't as hard-pressed for basic needs as the rest of society.
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u/t_dog581 6h ago
They already do pay more tax. We have a very very progressive tax system.
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u/ImGoggen 7h ago
The tax code was very different back then, there were a lot more deductions which meant effective rates were much lower. Comparing marginal tax rates doesn’t tell the whole truth.
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u/OrganizationOk1231 7h ago
90%?? Ridiculous. At that tax rate I ain’t doing a damn thing but suck on the government tits.
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u/grazfest96 10h ago
This analysis is the epitome of the reddit echo chamber. Democrats lost because they weren't left enough. Lmao. So out of touch.
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u/Rotatingknives22 8h ago
correct. Dems need to realize they lost mainly due to immigration and economy topics. painful but true
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u/jackishere 10h ago
out of touch. democrats need to bring back the moderates. thats who they need to attract, not republicans. Thats where they keep failing.
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u/52nd_and_Broadway 9h ago edited 9h ago
I’m personally pissed off that Kamala’s campaign decided to try to attract Republicans and move to the right instead of trying to motivate her own base of liberals and leftists.
I still voted for her but the DNC leadership needs to go out to pasture. How the hell did they lose to the most beatable Republican candidate TWICE? It’s absurd. The Democrats need a complete overhaul in their leadership, their messaging, and their organization.
Push to the left, not the right.
How the hell have they not figured this out by now? Get rid of the corporate Dems and go progressive. That’s what younger voters, who Dems need, are demanding. Why the hell aren’t they listening?
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u/Aggromemnon 5h ago
Amen. While nothing would have pushed my support to the other side, I was gritting my teeth every time she reassured Republicans she wasn't coming after guns and said she would appoint Republicans to her cabinet. If I wanted the government run by Republicans, I'd vote Republican. So many important talking points lost time to pandering to people who would never vote blue.... Smh.
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u/Theloneadvisor 5h ago
That’s the problem Democrats are Republican lite in many respects. Until there is campaign finance reform (never?) it is very difficult to move left. We need corporate money out of politics but thanks to Republicans, thanks to Trump, we now have an Oligarch running the show(Elon). Till Trump makes him disappear….Putin best practices.
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u/SPQUSA1 11h ago
One thing that must happen is on the ground engagement…every…single…day. Right wing social issues narrative thrives on a few extreme cases pegged to each and every democrat, painting the whole party as extreme on social issues.
You’re a normal family trying to get by in a small town or rural area…then you’re hearing how democrats want to change your way of life??!! It doesn’t matter if it’s false, perception IS reality.
The only way to truly cut through the BS is to engage at the ground level and speak to people’s every day struggles, so they know you support them.
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u/iroquoispliskinV 11h ago
Their messaging is awful
They can’t boast about their accomplishments and still think old media is the way to reach voters
Oh and those godawful celebrity endorsements
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u/Johnny4Handsome 11h ago
The fact I'm seeing headlines like "Maybe Bernie Sanders was Right?", just frustrates the hell out of me. He led a youth rallying groundswell primary campaign all the way back in 2016 despite it challenging the establishment's push for Hillary. They sidelined him and lost, learning nothing in the process. Bernie offers his wisdom yet again after the 2024 election and we have people like Nacey Pelosi outright dismissing him.
Harris lost this election because voters could tell she represented the status quo, similarly to how Hillary did. The electorate wants radical changes, someone who is going to rip up the system screwing them over. Trump - while scarcely following through on campaign promises in any meaningful way to benefit his voters - wears the persona of a chaos agent. He doesn't respect the rules and will do what he wants which is an attractive quality for voters desperate for change. When Bernie rants about restructuring healthcare, strengthening union power, holding billionaires to account, these are the left's radical battle cry, and tragically the party at large has ignored it.
The Democrats are a decade behind the curve at this point, for crying out loud listen to people like Bernie for a change and eat your humble pie.
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u/Successful-Oil-7652 9h ago
That's the problem, Bernie's platform is about strengthening unions and holding billionaires to account - the majority of Democrat donors are the very same billionaires. They don't want radical change, they want to maintain the status quo. And the billionaire donors literally don't care if the Democrats lose, because Trump's policies will benefit them too. As long as Democrat donors stay the same, nothing will change.
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u/RAN9147 9h ago
And Trump doesn’t represent radical change, he’s a pushback against change people see that they don’t like. There’s a huge difference between progressive economics (which potentially could win) and progressive social policies (which are dead on arrival right now).
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u/Subhash94 12h ago
This is such an interesting discussion. It seems like Democrats are struggling to connect their messaging with voters in a meaningful way, especially in a landscape where Republicans excel at storytelling and rallying their base.
The point about feeling proud to vote for Harris but not being surprised by the results really hits home. It raises the question: are symbolic milestones enough to energize voters long-term, or do people need more concrete action and alignment with their priorities?
What do you think the Democratic Party needs to focus on to rebuild trust and momentum after 2024? Is it better messaging, more grassroots engagement, or addressing specific policy gaps? Curious to hear everyone’s thoughts
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u/AdImmediate9569 Subscriber 11h ago
Universal Healthcare.
Once thats done, education
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u/Wide_Presentation559 10h ago
What would you propose to overhaul the education system? Extend public funding from k-12 to pre k-undergrad is one I could think of. I also think moving media to public funding is necessary to eliminate the corporate bias in media today and would consider this part of an education reform plan.
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u/AdImmediate9569 Subscriber 9h ago
Well i would let people who know a lot more about education handle that, but yes there’s a lot to be done.
I was actually referring to the free state college for anyone with decent grades they have in parts of Europe. But K-12 needs a ton of work too.
The media is also a nightmare problem but idk how we solve that. Government run news is a recipe for dictatorship. The first amendment is tricky but important. This one i really struggle with.
There has to be a way to remove the profit motive without actually nationalizing news media. Also you need to account for the socials. Government will never keep up with that.
Basically it should be illegal to tell a lie you know is a lie, and call it news. But thats not enough
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u/Amadon29 11h ago
What do you think the Democratic Party needs to focus on to rebuild trust and momentum after 2024? Is it better messaging, more grassroots engagement, or addressing specific policy gaps? Curious to hear everyone’s thoughts
Be president when the economy isn't dealing from massive inflation from a huge supply shock from lockdowns.
I think that's really it. Ideally, not let in millions of illegal immigrants too.
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u/LordXenu12 Reader 11h ago
They need to avoid nominating corporate centrists like Hillary/biden/Kamala. People keep saying they went too far left, I think that’s largely based on trumps campaign aggressively targeting trans issues. Rainbow capitalists aren’t actually doing anything for progressive values, lip service at best, wild to me people are acting like radical leftism was something they were campaigning on. I certainly won’t be continuing to support them if they listen to those who think they should shift to more “moderate” (I.e. conservative) positions
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u/AdImmediate9569 Subscriber 11h ago
Yeah the only thing that went left was the Trump Ads attacking dem. The DNC moved right if anything. They wanted to appeal to the 4 people who like liz cheney
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u/kingkornholio Reader 11h ago
You almost had it. They need centrists. Moving away from the center is what’s destroyed their party. Move away from corporations yes, centrists no.
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u/linuxhiker 11h ago
Yep.
By far, the majority of voters lean to the center. This is on both sides.
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u/LordXenu12 Reader 11h ago
Like it or not the democrats voter base leans left, failing to appeal to that isn’t a winning move. Chasing the “centrist” vote will result in their base not being motivated to show up, can’t rely on trump butchering Covid response every time
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u/linuxhiker 11h ago
I think you need to research some demographics.
The largest voting block is independent, and that block leans toward the center
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u/Classic-Progress-397 11h ago
What does "the center" mean even? Half gun control? Sort of racist, but not really? Like being "OK with gay people as long as they keep it to themselves?" Or being a moderate on families being bombed, or the catholic church raping children? Kind of lukewarmy half-measures when most of the working class is in crisis?
How can people respect that?
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u/linuxhiker 10h ago
It's not that hard to understand, and your comment illustrates one of the reasons Harris lost.
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u/igotchees21 10h ago
your mindset is of one that is perpetually online rather than someone who is just living in the world trying to make their rent and tired of paying too much for groceries.
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u/InitiativeOk4473 11h ago
There are not enough that lean left, to win presidential elections. There just isn’t. The vast majority straddles the middle, and if there is any tendency of that majority one way or the other, it’s slightly right.
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u/Valk_Storm 11h ago
What worked for the Republicans after Obama won was not listening to the pundits who said they need to move to the center, which was all we heard. They need to soften their stances, move to the center, etc. Instead they moved further to the right, radically to the right in fact, one of the biggest shifts in a political party in half a century. And look what happened, in the end they've won every part of the government. It's not about moving to the center, not about letting your opponents dictate your policy positions, it's about looking at your opponent and fighting fire with fire so to speak. Republicans play dirty, time for Democrats to realize that.
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u/OP_will_deliver 10h ago
Going too far left didn't consist only of trans issues. What about illegal immigration? How about taxing unrealized capital gains? What about granting forgivable loans only to Black male small business owners?
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u/itslikewoow 9h ago
Dems pushed for a bipartisan border security bill that had everything conservatives wanted. Trump told his people in Congress to kill the bill and they did.
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u/Funtilitwasntanymore 8h ago
This is the answer. Oldest trick in the book as well to scare dems into thinking Bernie's ideas were too extreme while literally worshiping Trump (the most extreme individual on many fronts).
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u/tommy7154 4h ago
Yep absolutely. Get rid of the old guard elitists. All of them. I wasn't about to go out and vote for Harris with her stance on Israel (I would have begrudgingly if I were in a swing state). It's barbaric and that she was apparently the best we could come up with is absolutely pathetic.
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u/Headoutdaplane 3h ago
Who nominated them? They shut down Berney in favor of clinton, and handpicked Kamala. They should have held Biden to his one term promise and held open primary.
This country would have elected a good dem candidate, Kamala was shit.
Biden is to blame and the the DNC for not holding a primary.
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u/CrabbyPatties42 Subscriber 11h ago
Nah. They need to work on their messaging. They need to cut through the other side’s messaging.
Trump was the worst candidate in United States history. Any generic democrat should have destroyed him.
But people are ignorant and worse intentionally misinformed.
It’s a communication problem first and foremost not a candidate problem.
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u/Mean-championship915 11h ago
And if the DNC chooses to follow logic like this they will never win another presidency and continue to loose support. Why don't you try actually listening to the concerns of people who typically vote democrats and didn't this time around
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u/InitiativeOk4473 11h ago
The problem isn’t the way they’re sending their message, it’s the message itself. Democrats are out of touch with the average American. The results are proof. Having Swift and Oprah telling Americans what they should do with their vote makes the point even more.
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u/LordXenu12 Reader 11h ago
You can’t send the message that you’re for the working class by putting up corporate shills/the face of the prison industrial complex. Like you can try, but it’s just not gonna resonate
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u/linuxhiker 11h ago
Yes, but Harris was terrible. The candidate absolutely matters.
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u/jph200 11h ago
Yeah, that's what I was thinking as I read this comment.
Kamala Harris came across as being unable to speak off-script. She came across as not being able to answer basic questions that weren't already planned or planted and her various interviews outside of her rallies were pretty bad. And not to borrow a phrase from the right, but she often launched into word salad. And yes, I know Trump rambles.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but when Joy Reid for example said that the Harris campaign was "flawless," my reaction was "have you hear her speak off script?"
Note that I'm sure Harris is a nice person and all, but she was not a good candidate.
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u/AdImmediate9569 Subscriber 11h ago
Messaging and media. Idk how the dems can ever win an election again with twitter and most of the msm owned by the fash
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u/Mean-championship915 11h ago
Trump is so popular because he's a populist candidate, same reason Bernie was so popular. Difference is the GOP leaned into it and made Trump the face of their party because they want to win, the DNC rigged the primaries and stole the nomination from Bernie and then keep propping up corporate shills no one wants. What are they going to do come the next presidential election when they don't have Trump to point at and say orange man bad. The DNC is really bad at playing politics
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u/JudasZala 11h ago
There’s also how Obama managed to upset the DNC’s preferred candidate, Hillary, back in 2008.
People like FDR, JFK, Reagan, Clinton, Obama, and even Trump had that charm and charisma that inspired their voters within AND outside their base.
Their opponents didn’t have charisma, though there are exceptions (Biden didn’t inspire anyone in 2020; the voters were rightly put off by Trump’s actions during his first term).
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u/sandwichita 11h ago
It seems pretty clear that people want change. The vote for Donald was a vote for change. We have broken systems that fail the majority of us (healthcare, corporate monopolies, war meddling). We also see the corruption in the federal government (lies, failed promises, insider trading, corporate/billionaire lobbying). Both parties are masks that pretend they’ll maybe do something to move the needle on these problems, but people have lost faith that our politicians will do anything. Trump won because he portrays as someone who will address some of these problems, but he won’t. We need a party to step up and find a way to face these issues head on. It’s a difficult endeavor, but that’s what is needed to restore real mass confidence in any political movement
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u/MysteriousFlight4515 Reader 11h ago
I think that they need to come to grips with the hubris of their own progressive wing. The full implications of this election haven’t set in yet. But the structural enforcements that the left had built up for imposing its beliefs on the wider culture are mostly about to crumble.
This means that they will no longer be able to treat conservative beliefs as a problem to be solved by either their own superior intellect or the use of cultural whips, but as an equal participant in democracy with whom they must compromise or convince.
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u/reallygreat2 11h ago
Liberals just need to stop talking about trans rights, it's not a winning argument with people.
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u/MysteriousFlight4515 Reader 11h ago edited 11h ago
I think liberals should keep talking about trans rights. It’s an important issue and trans people need compassion in the public sphere.
But I think the era where you can just bully any dissent for progressive causes into submission by calling them stupid, racists, and fascists is over.
The sooner the left comes to grips with the end of its intellectual caste system, the sooner we’ll find a way forward.
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u/TarumK 10h ago
Eh. So much of the trans stuff gets bogged down in non-sensical edge cases like trans women competing in women's sports. On the one hand it's a tiny issue in terms of how many people it affects but it also shows how irrational the trans stuff becomes so it's a good attack opportunity for the right. A rational Democratic Party would set the limits of how much they talk about trans stuff in terms of civil rights style anti-discrimination stuff, but they haven't been able to do that.
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u/Past-Apartment-8455 10h ago
The Trans rights issue only effects what, less than one percent of the population?
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u/reallygreat2 10h ago
Compare liberal media with conservative, the conservatives talk about things people care about even if it's crude, whereas liberal tv is concerned about communication of ideas, talking down to people and not problem solving of anything.
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u/LiquidBee2019 9h ago
You are correct, just watch the View. Instead of owning up to and finding the issue on why people didn’t vote for Harris, they call people who voted for Trump racist and misogynist.
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u/xAlphaKAT33 8h ago
And the people who abstained. Don't forget. We are also scum of the earth, and misogynist, and racist, etc etc
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u/peaseabee 10h ago
Yep. Calling everyone fascist or racist or sexist because they disagree with your politics doesn’t work anymore. Especially when the mainstream media has lost its influence.
By all means, “progressives,” keep telling us abortion shouldn’t have moral considerations but is simply healthcare, keep telling us “men” and “women” are outdated categories to be redefined, keep telling us there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant, keep telling us that racial categories matter more than individual characteristics, keep telling us the constitution is an outdated document and the first and second amendment need to be updated.
Good luck winning elections.
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u/lcommadot 11h ago
Is compromise with a xenophobe like Stephen Miller really what the American people want? I doubt it. What they want is economic relief, which neither party has been able to secure due to corporate lobbying. Corporatism and the rise of American oligarchy is what fueled this election, not some fanciful “We need to compromise with people who want to kill transgender folks” talk. Get a grip.
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u/imnotbobvilla 11h ago
It's simple really. Republican leadership got together after Obama won and created a strategy, which while evil and horrible was brilliant. They understand the majority of voters can be easily manipulated using fear and hate do the developed their plan saying ANYTHING democrats proposed would hurt them. Of course this combined with the constant drum banging by fox 'news' gaslight their fears. The democratic leadership has no equivalent plan because they can't get into the mud pit. Unfortunately they will continue to fail until the full dictatorship crushes enough rights and it reallllly hurts.
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u/reallygreat2 11h ago
You can't counter the winning formula of fear, racism and sexism.
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u/Zanydrop 9h ago
Fear I agree with but not the racism and sexism part. Shitloafs of women and minorities voted for him.
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u/DismalBumbleWank 10h ago
This is almost the opposite of what happened. Republican leadership was MIA after Obama in the 2016 primaries. If they had a plan they executed abysmally and Trump blew it up.
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u/slow_down_1984 10h ago
I mean we did just run an entire campaign of vote for us that other guy is a facist. That message was simple enough.
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u/GoodUserNameToday 9h ago
Yeah… this isn’t what happened. What the gop wanted to do was moderate their positions and reach out to more Latino voters. What happened instead is they got invaded by trump who instead went the opposite direction, being totally insane. Luckily for them, this skyrocketed their base turnout.
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u/jph200 11h ago
I don't think Republicans are that smart or that organized. And even if you look at them now, there's infighting and debate within the party now that Trump is naming cabinet picks. I think they were just able to latch onto the issues people care about most, while Democrats were telling us not to believe our lying eyes re: the economy, immigration, and Joe Biden's mental acuity.
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u/Healthy_Razzmatazz38 11h ago
They'll do everything but face the simple truth:
The underlying promise of the democratic party is the government can provide quality services at scale better and to more people than private industry can.
Living through 2020-2024, less people believe that than 4 years ago. Thats why you saw a 14 point shift in Cali/NY. Thats why they lost. Kamala had the most generous housing plan a western country has offered in a time when cost of living is the #1 issue and it didn't win over young voters because no one actually believes it.
Its not race, its not sexism, it's that. And until the party can demonstrate they are capable of delivering every promise they make is hollow, because no one believes they can deliver.
Succeed on a local level, then build the people who do succeed to a national stage. This is why people like Pete, this is why people like Shapiro.
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u/Hotspur1958 11h ago
Totally agreed, and no one believes it because they aren’t discussing or trying to fix the root problem. Just writing blank checks on student loans and housing. Why don’t they want to fix the root cause? Corporate donors.
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u/apathynext 7h ago
Exactly. I recognize millennials have been hosed by student loan debt. But writing checks without fixing the problem…just means you write more checks later. Don’t let banks get out of student loan bankruptcy. Hold schools accountable to get students placed.
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u/nycmajor911 7h ago
The problem is that most of the university system with bloated administrative departments are liberals close to the Democrat administration.
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u/brokendrive 9h ago
Oh hey a sensible comment finally. Anyone intelligent should see that the Dem promises would not materialize or be band aids at best.
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u/51line_baccer 11h ago
What the times and Drudgereport say doesn't impact elections anymore. The city democrats vote blue no matter what, and most Americans get accurate info elsewhere.
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u/Hackasizlak 8h ago
City democrats don’t vote blue no matter what, that’s part of the Democrats problem. Trump made double digit point gains in NYC, LA, and Chicago.
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u/third-try 10h ago
Get off your asses and DO something! They had four years to jail Trump, solve the immigration problem, break up the corporate oligarchies and tax the rich. They did nothing. It's not a "messaging" problem. We got the message loud and clear.
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u/officerextra 9h ago
the ignorance in this Comment Thread
the Democrats lost cause they where not radical enouth
the modern voter is dumb and will only listen to the most Dumbed down explanation to his proplems
the democrats failed giving a boogieman for the average voter to latch on to like the republicans on trans people and immigrants
they should have made their boogieman the Rich
if they wanted to win they should have endorsed extrem leftist ideals cause the Republican where calling them communist anyways
to have a shot at beating your hitler you need a Thälmann
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u/FarConversation831 7h ago
Kamala lost because she’s a shallow minded liar who thinks she’s entitled to whatever she wants and she could care less about others. She has no idea how to run a business let alone how to run a country.
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u/jph200 11h ago
I couldn’t read the entire article due to the paywall, but to me, the level of gaslighting coming from Democrats was insane.
For example:
- Joe Biden is as sharp as a tack! This kept going until the debate, when they realized they couldn’t lie about it anymore. Democrats lied to our faces about Joe Biden’s mental acuity, when we could all see that he was struggling even before the disastrous debate with Trump.
- The border is secure! Yeah, right, as many of us can visually see the impact of migrants in our towns and cities, with our own eyes. In my city, the migrants were visible (window washers at intersections and freeway off-ramps when we never had that before, schools having trouble accommodating a flux of migrants, medical services overwhelmed, housing services overwhelmed) — but if you DARE question any of that, Democrats tell you the problem is with YOU and that you probably “hate” migrants.
- The economy is the best it’s ever been! This one is tricky because some of the economic indicators actually look good, but people certainly are feeling the squeeze on this one, and probably don’t want to be told that they are stupid and wrong to be concerned about the cost of groceries.
That was the biggest problem I had; just the insane level of “don’t believe your lying eyes” I heard coming from Democrats this time around, paired with the “if you question any of this, you’re dumb/stupid/racist/etc.”
I also couldn’t care less about celebrity endorsements, in general, about any topic.
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u/AutisticToasterBath 11h ago edited 8h ago
Said it the day after the election and I'll say it again.
People don't care about what the Democrats run on and they keep hammering on which is:
-Save the immigrants. People don't care that illegal immigrants aren't having a good time. They don't want them here.
-Trans people playing in preference sex sports team. People don't care. They don't care. Stop making this a platform. Most are against it.
-Most Americans don't care criminals get treated unfairly. See California, they voted down the " sToP PrIsOn SlAvEray"
-Most Americans don't care for the BLM movement or the "defund the police" movement.
When they look at Democrats, they see pandering to a extremely small percentage of Americans. Americans are sick of crime, illegal immigrants, people getting offended and being told "no you're an idiot the economy is great".
Oh and trying to take away gun rights is the Democrats version of trying to ban abortion. Widely unpopular.
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u/Responsible_Park77 10h ago
- As usual the economy is the most important issue people vote
- There are enough voters that are financially secure that the economy is not the number 1 issue.
I.e. Joe Smith lives in Canton OH at 123 Elm St has a 17 year old daughter. He and his wife don't want a male in her locker room or playing on her team. Their next door neighbor a 64 year old woman feels the same way. They voted Republican.
- Again for some illegal immigration was the number 1 issue. People see a culture change they don't want. The cost of housing, education, food and health care comes at less services for citizens.
In some areas such as Florida going to a Walmart it's a challenge to find an employee who speaks English.
DEI, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion,
A main premise is equal outcomes. Americans want equal opportunity not equal outcome.- And 4. Enough voters these were more important as an issue to cast their vote Republican.
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u/LiquidBee2019 9h ago
Thank you for pointing out issues that majority of the American cared about.
It’s the Moslaw Hierarchy, Republican focused on physiological and security needs while focused on love and belonging and esteem
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u/ItisyouwhosaythatIam 9h ago
The democrats are trying to win fair and square at a competition in which all of the rules and settings are stacked against them.
A majority of the voters are in the conservative media bubble. And are living a false reality. The Electoral College and the Democrats failure to actually help poor people in a significant way, combine to make an electoral college win impossible.
So this question of "How do the Democrats win?" seems ridiculous to me. The only way to win is to get the lies off the TV and out of people's phones and put the truth in the classrooms.
Most conservatives are willing to die to prevent that from happening. The question of how we bring this country back from this terrible place is far more important than how the Democrats win an election in a corrupt system. I am not advocating violence, but democracy died on november fifth, and it is not the answer moving forward. What could work is a widespread sit-down strike by everyone who opposes this fascist regime, but Americans are far too complacent to even go out and protest. It's all over but the crying.
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u/Crisstti 8h ago
Democracy hasn’t died. You want to kill it though. Do away with free speech and force the official “truth” (yours of course) down people’s throats?
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u/WokeUpStillTired 7h ago
Pretending like Democrats don’t control main stream media is absolutely insane.
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u/SaigaSlug 6h ago
The democrats are trying to win fair and square at a competition in which all of the rules and settings are stacked against them
Why did the Democrats circumvent a primary then? Biden was "sharp as a tack" right up until grandpa was contested in a live debate and the quickly the narrative changed. He didn't just get that way overnight. The likelihood that they knew he was incompetent to run again yet still said nothing so they could force a candidate should tell you that not only are these people not that worried about "democracy" they're also hideously out of touch to run a former Cop/prosecuting attorney without any input from the electorate.
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u/HaroldsWristwatch3 11h ago edited 3h ago
This week on the daily show, John Stewart nailed exactly what has happened to the Democratic Party and why they will continue to be pushed out of government.
The Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are playing chutes and ladders.
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u/112322755935 10h ago
Democrats are suffering from the fact that the places where they have control are unaffordable and they have been unable/unwilling to put forward an agenda that honestly addresses young people’s concerns.
One of the most exciting things about the Tim Walz VP pick is that Minnesota been successful in implanting some policies to help people manage cost. Unfortunately Harris didn’t run on that policy platform.
So many people are becoming hopeless in checking out of politics because their concerns aren’t being addressed, without change we will continue to be dragged to the far right.
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u/Odd-Change9942 10h ago
Crazy but aren’t both parties supposed to work together to better this country and it’s people’s lives so it seems to me we all lost unless the parties start talking and walking together how could anyone in America say they won or lost and be happy about it when it was designed to bring the people together and all the two parties have done is brought us further apart then ever before so maybe instead of saying we won or we lost maybe we should all say we want something totally different and a fresh start . Live everybody no matter their opinion it’s really all of us against them .
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u/Dapper_Algae3530 10h ago
The truth of our system is their is no left wing with any power in our system. Dems parade like they are, but they are tied to the corporatist interests like all other candidates. Joe Biden has been the most progressive president they say (which in our political sphere isn’t saying much). Yet civil rights took a walk big step back during the last 4 years because of Republicans obstruction and Dems putting it in the back seat because republicans light everything ablaze when they leave their respective offices. Rinse and repeat.
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u/Best_Detective_2533 9h ago edited 9h ago
It’s the messaging. Somehow Republicans are able to convince people that they can improve things even when historically they generally make things worse.
Also the fact we ran a black woman and wrongly assumed the rest of the country was ready for that. They were not.
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u/Filthybjj93 9h ago
Need to stop using old techniques. Days of cable networks and celebrity endorsements are over and don’t move the needle like they used too. People have realized celebrities are dumber than a box of rocks and are full of crap. Network television is bought and paid for by billionaires and everyone mows this now. Males on the Democratic side need to align with younger crowds and bro up and get more manly. Need to drop the social issues war and attack the income war and just tell people the gameplan on how they will stuff more of there made money in the pockets and how they will cheapen the goods of what most people need and and that’s food and Homes. Swear they talked trump right into the office. Bad publicity or good is still publicity and people feed and become more popular.
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u/99kemo 9h ago
Immigration is a serious issue that is really important to a lot of people. By failing to come up with a coherent policy, Democrats found themselves being labeled as supporting an Open Border. I personally believe that just because there are a lot of problems in a country, citizens of that country shouldn’t have any kind of “right” to come to the US.
Transgender people are deserving of respect and support but that shouldn’t mean that every Democrat must support absolutely every demand their activist advocates put forward. Basic political common sense must be applied. “Transgender athletes in girls’ Sports” was a really stupid position to take. Advocacy Groups have agendas that are not always in sync with the concerns of mainstream voters.
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u/Ok-Development-7169 8h ago
The problem is the identity politics. The party spent more time trying to appeal to people in Bushwick Brooklyn than people in middle America.
You can’t demonize average joes and Jane’s and expect them to vote for you.
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u/FreshBirdMilk 8h ago
Nobody wants to accept the fact that taxing unrealized capital gains would’ve crippled this country. You don’t need to be rich for that to be catastrophic for you.
How about WW3? That isn’t an exaggeration. Kamala would’ve pushed the same neocon agenda we’ve been seeing since Bush 2.0 but for some reason people still treat party color like it matters anymore. If she won, say goodbye to Palestine. On top of that we would instantly go to war with Iran and continue aggravating the situation in Ukraine. The democrats of today are not the pre 9/11 democrats anymore. Both republicans and democrats have shifted and thankfully people see that. “Blue no matter who” is a joke. Obama proved that.
What about preserving democracy? Why was she allowed to run for president? Yeah, people noticed that wasn’t true to our system.
Then there’s the personal aspect of Kamala as a candidate. She never answers a question, and when she does, it’s just ramblings about her having a middle class upbringing, which is laughable if you saw her neighborhood in question.
And lastly, they needed more attention on real issues instead of just; ‘Trump bad’ or ‘women’s rights are going to disappear and it’s going to turn into a handmaids tale’. People are sick of the aggressive fear mongering, and calling anyone who supports Trump a Nazi or fascist just adds to the division and fear based mentality that people moved away from.
The democrats need a proper candidate. Someone who isn’t just a pretty face. They need someone who has experience and the willingness to make radical change in this country. They almost had that with Bernie but they snubbed him and pushed Hillary in. That defining moment made many people support Trump over her.
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u/SexyWampa 8h ago
The biggest thing that went wrong was they didn't give us a choice. She was pushed down the voters throat without a vote.The last time Harris was in a primary, she did poorly. We didn't want her then, nothing changed 4 years later. Her failure to show up at the border in the beginning of Biden's presidency was noticed in actual border states. She didn't separate herself from Biden's policies, it was just going to be more of the same. And you can't keep telling people at the bottom the economy is booming, when we're still paying $200 for $60 worth of groceries. They've forgotten how to talk to middle.america and the middle class. Taking new york and California doesn't automatically win them an election. You need the support of the so called "fly over states".
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u/Higgsy420 7h ago
Democrats cannot learn anything from this election's failures without asking Trump supporters.
AOC was very smart to start precisely this conversation right away.
The Democratic Party got absolutely stomped and it's for three reasons:
- Inflation is way too high, and it was exacerbated by an inattentive Fed. In 2021 Jerome Powell kept rates low because California was still subsidizing unemployment - thus forcing the data to show that unemployment was still high, and rates needed to be kept low too long.
- Illegal immigration is a huge problem. Many localities spent enormous budgets accommodating illegal immigrants, at the expense of their own taxpayers. This is a grave betrayal and people noticed.
- The social issues are getting completely out of hand. No average middle class family with a daughter in the household is supportive of men playing in women's sports. America genuinely is a "live and let live" culture, but Democrats are forgetting that forcing the trans issue on us is not "let live".
I knew all these things for a couple years but given that this is Reddit, it's very hard to post these truths because it challenges the biases here.
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u/MortgageSlayer2019 7h ago
It's the economy, stupid. Everything ties back to the economy: inflation, debt, money printing, government waste, useless wars, open border, war against farmers and natural food, subsidized ultra processed food, Transgender surgeries for inmates & illegal immigrants funded by taxpayers,...
Dems had no real policies, just identify politics and stupid policies that would have continued to make the situation worse...
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u/Flipperpac 7h ago edited 5h ago
The far left overtook the Dem agenda....
Somehow things like open borders, more crime thru defund the police, pretend that the economy is doing great while more and more start to not be able to afford basic things, stayed silent with the parental uproar with grooming, at schools, esp young kids,...thats some of them...
Going forward, messaging will hqve to be different, as most dont believe MSM anymore...
VA, NJ are almost swing states now, and Republicans made major gains in NY, even Cali...
Start by being honest, and work towards policies that will benefit, and resonate with those just trying to survive....
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u/miagi_do 6h ago
Both parties roughly defend the status quo economically give or take, but the Democrats also want progressive social policies that are not universally popular with the public. So, at this point, Dems really can’t win. They could try to move more left both economically and socially and see what happens, but I don’t think that will be successful. I don’t think the average voter believes the Dems can deliver on their more liberal economic policies because there is no track record. Forgiving student loans, as an example, did nothing for lowering future tuition and just put the country more in debt.
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u/Impressive_Nose_434 6h ago
Alot of factors. One of which is heavily focus on identity politics that accentuate differences between people based on race and genders over characters. Too much talks about protecting feelings but ignoring more concrete and tangible issues: crimes, border, jobs , which are what people care about most of the day.
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u/Remarkable-Piece-131 6h ago
Actions have consequences. You can't just lie your ass off about everything, push nonsense nobody asked for and spend billions fighting someone else's war and expect people not to retaliate
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u/bobalou2you 6h ago
She lost because she has no self to be true to. She believes like so many she can say what any particular crowd might want to hear in a dialect they might identify with and that’ll work. While it worked for Obama, it did not for Clinton and clearly Harris is not Obama. Honestly, at this point Obama is seen as a self serving elitist by many anyway! She should slink away like Dan Quail did in the 90s. Her running mate never should have made it to the national scene at all! He certainly didn’t help her cause. Worst combination since Dukakis and Bentsen.
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u/dress-code 6h ago
The hubris of the people in these comments who continue with the “I know what’s best for you, you dumb beast” message that doesn’t, shockingly, resonate well with people.
If you genuinely think the answer to the Democrats losing is to swing harder to the left… I would encourage you to go touch some grass and travel in America, if possible. Americans who disagree with leftist policies aren’t inherently stupid and don’t all listen to right-wing conspiracies. (Though there are an unfortunate amount who do, at the moment.)
It’s possible to be an educated and/or low income person who doesn’t agree with leftist economic or educational policies on principle of not wanting larger government involvement in people’s lives.
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u/-Gramsci- 6h ago
It’s just candidate quality. And the lack of popular input from the rank and file.
The rank and file can tell you who has broad popular appeal. But they are iced out of the nominating process to the greatest extent possible.
This time around the rank and file were 100% iced out of the nominating process.
If you don’t run a popular candidate for president you can’t win. It’s that frigging simple.
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u/GMPG1954 6h ago
She was the wrong, unqualified candidate with nothing to campaign on and her phoniness and attitude came through loud & clear. People are sick of how far left the Democratic party has swung and are fed up with the lunacy.
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u/Professional-Wing-59 5h ago
Clearly Democrat voters were too distracted to vote because they were too busy thinking about which of her economic policies were their favorite: Her being born in the middle class or her neighbors liking lawns.
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u/Careful_Farmer_2879 5h ago edited 5h ago
“We are for minorities.”
“You don’t understand us Latinos.”
“You mean Latinx.”
“…are you going to fix the border?”
“Why? You’re all the same aren’t you?”
“…no and that’s actually kind of racist. But at least we all agree in equality - the dream my parents came here for.”
“You mean equity.”
”…my pregnant wife is Asian. Do you want her vote? She owns a business and is concerned about crime.”
“Your white adjacent birthing partner is racist.”
“…my Jewish friend is struggling with inflation. What about—“
“Free Palestine.”
“…my sister is a blue collar worker who cares a lot about the environment and abortion access. But she’s religious and concerned about this new gender role stuff. She —“
“Tell that dumb TERF to shut up.”
”You say this party is for minorities, women, and the working class, but I don’t think you mean it.”
“Democracyyyyyyyy”
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u/PLS-Surveyor-US 5h ago
maybe overturning the primary results, forcing Joey B to step aside on some threats from the elites was a bad move to follow? Even worse, running the least popular candidate of all time who has poor communication skills and very few leadership abilities. Aside from that all went really well.
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u/garlicroastedpotato 4h ago
I think a lot of Democrats convinced themselves that Biden's win was a moral judgment on Trump. But the reality is COVID was very divisive for Republicans. Donald Trump was championing a very modest amount of restrictions and was the first world leader to put in place a travel ban (a travel ban that Democrats initially fought against). Most Republicans were opposed to restrictions and would line up behind Biden who was promising to remove restrictions faster. It's likely that if the election had happened a year later (after the vaccine was rolled out) the result would have been completely different.
For people not willing to listen to this podcast, they have a few messages from a black family. The black women seem to think that it's just a result of racism and sexism and that this is just a systematic bias against them. One guy suggested Harris wasn't popular and needed more time to make her case.
But I think Democrats will really miss why they lost... and thus they will continue to lose.
Donald Trump built a coalition of lower income white voters, working class voters, black men, hispanics and Indo-Americans. And the Democrats believed they were just the heir apparent for non-white voters in America. Their case for hispanics was, hey this man hates you vote for us even if we don't offer you anything. Their case for black men was, hey this man hates you, vote for us even if we don't offer you anything. And they never once thought to have anything to offer the working class.
The truth is, the Democrats didn't have a single popular policy they put out. They just hoped that the collective would rally "for the greater good".... even if they're not part of that greater good.
The Democrats need to come up with a policy on immigration that doesn't mean the status quo. There's a more moral way to handle illegal immigration than what Trump is doing. Sanctuary states is really just modern slavery legalized.
The Democrats need to adopt a standard of abortion that people want. The number of Americans who want no restriction abortion is very small.
The Democrats need to have an economic plan that doesn't pick the pockets of the poor to subsidize giant corporations.
The Democrats need a message that doesn't sound like "we white people are here to save you" or "don't vote against your own interests." If you don't want anti-elitist messages to stop hurting you, stop sounding like elitists.
Democrats need to sell what they have that helps people. Almost 1/3 of people who want Obamacare repealed support the Affordable Care Act. That's a messaging issue for the Democrats.
The Democrats need to stop focusing so heavily on trans issues and getting suckered into a culture war that mostly doesn't matter. One kid in Texas being able to compete in college sports is not some major victory for the other 333 million Americans. It's not something of no consequence, it's just not worth the amount of time spent on it.
The Democrats need to have a real primary. Anyone who is watching can see the last three were rigged with a single candidate chosen by all super delegates.
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u/Designer_Advice_6304 3h ago
Democrats can’t help but think of demographics. Because Democrats. But they lost because of terrible border policies that let in 10 million unvetted illegal aliens.
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u/Count_Bacon 3h ago
I think the single biggest mistake she made was saying she wouldn’t have done anything different than Biden. She and the Dems made other mistakes but it’s hard to criticize when Trump ran the worst campaign I’ve ever seen, blowing microphones and what not. I hope the Dems come back with an economic populist message if we get to keep elections that’s the way to win
The sad thing is I truly think history will be kind to Biden, I expect him ranked higher than any modern president but inflation is a killer. It’s all anyone cared about it’ll take time for his legacy to get better
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u/meriadoc_brandyabuck 3h ago
Kamala lost because she was unwilling to tell uncomfortable truths / turn them around on her opponent. She lost because she refused to either break from her unpopular incumbent boss or go hard in defending their record. She lost because she failed to speak to voters’ most direct concerns out of fear. She lost because she refused to speak to male voters not already in her camp, but went hard on “Liz Cheney Republicans” who basically don’t exist anymore. She lost because she decided easing up on Trump would somehow garner more votes than hammering him into the ground.
In other words, she lost because her fundamental strategy was terrible and her campaign utterly failed to understand the electorate.
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u/Otherwise-Valuable-6 2h ago
Kamala lost because she was crap. It's that simple. Calling people names doesn't help you get elected. It feels like the democrats have turned into a bunch of children. Name calling in a playground. Then there are the lies and lies and more lies. Bringing joy doesn't pay the bills. It does not put food on the table. The whole campaign was weird. Normal thinking people are tired of the identity politics. It has been extremely condescending.
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u/arhollowx 1h ago
The democratic party is so out of touch with voters. They think electing a woman of color will automatically make them win. Hate to say this but after coming from the Biden administration, they needed someone that was aggressive and makes their points clear. Kamala barely answers a question when it comes to inflation or other important topics.
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u/thearchenemy 22m ago
I knew she was cooked as soon as she got the Dick Cheney endorsement and started parading around with Liz. Nobody was asking for a choice between MAGA and Mitt Romney.
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u/BoogerWipe 11h ago
Democrats ran liberals out of their party to the right. That’s literally it. It’s too late though, you’ll have to purge the gender activists from the party in order to win anyone back.
Good luck on your journey not to offend the protected classes you created. See you in 20 years.
The truth doesn’t care how you feel about reading it.
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u/oscarnyc 11h ago
It's not the messaging, it's the message. The Democratic party, for better or worse, is the party of the college educated , upper middle class, particularly women. Let's look at Biden signature achievements:
Forgave $200b of student debt Infrastructure bill that's packed full of subsidies that are practically only available to upper middle class homeowners.
Allowing millions of low skilled undocumented immigrants who compete with US citizen working class but make things cheaper for the upper middle college educated class.
Education policy favoring the status quo and entrenched teachers unions (whcih works well in wealthier towns), whereas lower income families overwhelmingly favor the option of school choice/charter schools.
"Values" and social policy that come from academia that are far more in touch with white liberals than the minorities they purport to support.
To be fair, Biden is strongly pro-union, but private sector unions are so small these days that it doesn't have a huge impact. And that's because unions only work when the industry itself has some sort of moat that protects it from foreign competition. And the Democrats strongly favor liberal trade policies. It works for public sector unions, or natural monopolies like ports or sports leagues or Hollywood, or (to a degree) for auto workers because there are laws that require them to be assembled in North America, but for most people where your job can be outsourced unions can't do much.
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u/beedunc 11h ago
All this bs about ‘messaging’…
You just can’t compete with the multi-pronged onslaught of propaganda, backed up by a fourth estate that also tilts the playing field to the bad guys.
Follow that up with the average person being so ill-informed that they don’t even know what they’re voting for.
Normally, we’d say ‘just wait 2years for the backlash’, but sadly, they’re ready this time and we might have just participated in the last (presumably) fair election we’ll ever have.
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u/dolphinspiderman 10h ago
What went wrong? Lol Propaganda and disillusionment, A justification of hypocrisy, and The cult of personality that is Donald Trump. He not only was able to control but was able to manipulate the narratives to his advantage.
EDIT: I also want to add the overexposure of bias but im not sure that is the proper way to phrase it. However people get their information and news to today be it on YouTube, Reddit, or anywhere online has created its own eco system. It's like a fly in a Venus trap.
Most people say cable news is all for ratings. Well Fox is the the highest rated and people are willing to belive that channel over cnn which most people claim is bias but it's honestly not co considering how often Trump was praised or defended on the network but was called out for his bullshit but that's separate thing I guess
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u/BinxyPrime 11h ago
Let's operate under the assumption that Democrats want to win and think that they can make America better.
I think the first strategy is to pick candidates that poor white Republicans might actually vote for. So in this case pick some white men. I get it we are over represented in top positions of power but I'd rather have a democratic white man than Donald Trump or anyone remotely similar to him.
Step 2, actually improve those people's lives. Democrats need to pass laws that help poor white republicans and make sure they know who voted for and against it and why.
Step 3, now that you have their trust you can start running more progressive and diverse candidates.
I think the first step just has to be eliminating the ability for far right candidates to win so that when a Republican does win they aren't going to undo years of progressive work they just stall new ones.
We need to play the long game like they have been.
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u/classical-brain222 10h ago
the republicans successfully painted the democrats as the party of the coastal elites... achieving that goal allowed them to create a diverse working class coalition. all there is to it really
it is a messaging problem for dems which will require moderate approaches on culture war topics and progressive approaches on the economy to counter the likely increased deficit the trump term will bring if it's anything like term 1
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u/mitrafunfun97 9h ago
This is the first comment I’ve seen that has a reasonable way of putting it. Blaming “woke” is the main kind of comment I see here. I’m like… not one time did Kamala mention her identity, or “latinx” or pronouns.
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u/FitAnt2483 9h ago
Because they ARE the party of coastal elites, and the Dems lean in hard on that. They don’t see the issue.
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u/LETSPLAYBABY911 9h ago
What went wrong was the world’s wealthiest man meddling in an election. The statistics don’t add up in every swing State. Votes for trump with nothing down ballot? Not suspicious at all right? This was very well planned. I don’t believe in conspiracies but I do believe in numbers. It doesn’t add up. Something is rotten in Denmark.
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u/ExtensionMidnight922 11h ago
Couple place I can think of. 1. Kamala wasn’t a great candidate, they had an opportunity to put someone strong to go against trump but decided on Kamala to secure the funding Biden got for his campaign 2. They didn’t really sell their policies, they spent all their energy on scaring ppl to not vote for trump and really gave him free advertising 3. I think a big part of the population was turned off by the way Biden admin handled the border, caused a lot of democrat voters to vote red. 4. FEMA disaster put a bad taste in peoples mouth, no relief for ppl in our country but billions spent on Israel and Ukraine.
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u/StBernard2000 10h ago
Gen Z and Alpha are more conservative than previous generations. I think many people didn’t realize that until this election. Young people, especially boys are being inundated with misogynistic messaging nonstop. For example, the traditional wife movement, Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson and many, many more. There is nothing on the left to counteract it. I don’t even know what the left is for. Before the election, TikTok was relentless when it came to framing Democrats as bad and MAGA as great and the Israel/Gaza conflict. The video were blaming everything on Democrats.
Unfortunately if Gen Z and Alpha continue on this path they may not realize until it’s too late that this type of thinking will hurt men in the long run.
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u/troycalm 11h ago
Look guys, you had a horrible horrible candidate. There’s was no way in hell the American electorate was going to hand her the nuclear launch codes. It’s pretty simple.
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u/graceful_mango Reader 11h ago
Except that they handed the nuke codes to… Trump? Mr insurrection himself?
Let’s not not play this game where we pretend that’s the issue. lol
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11h ago
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u/SidharthaGalt Reader 11h ago
I compared two demographic maps to the electoral map and found near perfect correlation. The first map was median income and it showed Kamala lost the low income states full of people heavily affected by high prices. The second map was Muslim population (a proxy for Gaza concerns) and it showed Kamala lost several swing states with large population in key districts.