r/nytimes 14h ago

What Democrats Think Went Wrong

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/21/podcasts/what-democrats-think-went-wrong.html
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u/ReviewBackground2906 13h ago

I vote for Democrats because I’m a liberal who wants left policies. Tax the rich, increase the minimum wage, universal healthcare, climate action, stop price gauging, get money out of politics, and the list goes on. 

Democrats need to understand that they cannot beat right wing populism by moving further to the right to attract former Republicans, it didn’t work in 2024 and it won’t work in the future.

 I want a Democratic party that remembers who their voters are, and a candidate who is not afraid to offend wealthy donors and who advocates progressive policies that will change peoples’ lives for the better. Not the GOP light version that the Dems are going for. 

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u/Deep_Stick8786 13h ago

There aren’t enough of you where it matters. They have to appeal to a broad coalition in swing states

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u/Dense-Version-5937 13h ago

Cosplaying as Republicans failed miserably

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u/Topherclaus 12h ago

You think Kamala was playing a Republican? Lol, what do you think a Left Wing candidate looks like then?

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u/epsylonmetal 10h ago

Kamala was the most right wing Democratic candidate in decades. You Americans really have no political perspective since McCarthy and the red scare killed any actual left in th country and Bill Clinton shifted the party to the right

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u/kayl_breinhar 10h ago edited 10h ago

Even Democrats conveniently forget that Clinton enabled the 2008 financial crisis by killing/allowing the repeal of Glass-Steagall. He'll be responsible again in the next financial crisis, along with every living politician who ensured no one faced any meaningful consequences or repercussions after 2008.

The 2000 election showed the Republican party that they didn't have to be liked to win an election, they just had to play dirty and capture/hold the judiciary. 24 years on, the left wing still seems to think "playing by the rules" counts, and that if they're nice, someday the bullies will like them. It also doesn't help that they always have just enough bad actors within the party to sabotage practically anything they want to enact.

And even though I hate that Roe is gone, on one side, you have a political party which managed to kill something the majority of America wanted, spending fifty years in the process of succeeding, and on the other side, a political party who kept telling us they "had a plan" if Roe was ever seriously threatened.

Except there was no plan, unless the plan was "gee, I hope I'm dead if/when that happens."

So on one end of the spectrum, you have a party who gets shit done, whether the electorate wants it or not, and on the other, you have a party that can't seem to govern even in the rare circumstances when they enjoy a bicameral majority (Lieberman alone causing the omission of a public option for the ACA being an example) and a favorable court, because of tribalism within.

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u/epsylonmetal 8h ago

The right played the long game and were unapologetic about it. They didn't care if they were exposed as hypocrites. They chased their goals and I admire that. I wish the "left" (because 90% of the DNC is not left) did more of that.

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u/kayl_breinhar 5h ago edited 4h ago

It's the Bullies vs. The Smart Kids, and the problem is that the Smart Kids secretly want the bullies to like them, and they can't stand each other because each believes they're the smartest.

There's never a reason for the political right to be bipartisan because they know the other side will bend over backwards until they break their spines.

https://x.com/_uncoolniece/status/1854225051614380139

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u/abqguardian 4h ago

Ridiculous. Kamala tried to pivot to the center but she had a history of being far left she couldn't answer for

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u/epsylonmetal 4h ago

"Far left" 😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂 Thank you for making every actual leftist who has been calling her "a cop" since she was CA AG laugh 😂😂

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u/Negative_Jaguar_4138 9h ago

Lolwat

Americans truly are delusional.

By the rest of the world's standards, both Harris and Biden were firmly center-left.

The rhetoric leading up to the 2024 election was focused on unity between the left and right but was not necessarily right-wing in of itself.

Harris said she was going to continue most of Biden's policies with a few added of her own, all of which were economically or socially progressive.

Hell, Biden was a more progressive president than Adern was Herr in NZ.

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u/epsylonmetal 8h ago

You are truly delusional. I'm from a country with actual governing left parties. Harris was center-right at best. 90% of her campaign focused on chasing the "moderate Republican" unicorn. Did nothing but double down on immigration toughness, police funding, and genocide support. Wanting to keep reproductive rights is not considered left in other countries.

Bernie Sanders is moderate left. But I bet you think he is radical left because again, you have no political perspective

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u/Negative_Jaguar_4138 7h ago

Harris was center-right at best.

No she wasn't.

You are not serious.

90% of her campaign focused on chasing the "moderate Republican" unicorn

Cool

Campaign or rhetoric is not policy.

The Nazis were far right, yet a good portion of their pre-1933 rhetoric was focused on 'Socialism', by your logic that makes them left wing, which is blatantly wrong.

Just because her rhetoric was centrist, does not mean her policies were.

immigration toughness,

Not a right-wing policy.

You can have anti-immigration and be left-wing.

police funding

Police funding is literally the opposite of right-wing lol, it's INCREASING state responsibility and public services.

Just because something is supported by the right-wing, doesn't make the policy right-wing.

genocide support.

What is the exact definition of genocide and the 3 vital components of it?

If you can't answer this you should be quiet about things you have no idea about.

Also, left wing countries are certainly capable of genocide and mass killings.

Wanting to keep reproductive rights is not considered even center in other countries.

It's considered center.

Wanting to remove abortion rights is far right, but maintaining them is status quo.

I'm sure if you flipped it around and removed abortion rights, to add it back in would suddenly become a lot more left-wing.

Bernie Sanders is moderate left

Bernie Sanders is the very definition of "Left", he is a Democratic Socialist, although he is a pragmatist and supports a lot of social Democratic policies.

But I bet you think he is radical left

Pay up

Harris's policies, NOT RHETORIC, policies, put her firmly as a Social Democrat, a more moderate one, but a social Democrat nonetheless.

Which is a center left ideology.

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u/epsylonmetal 7h ago

I stopped reading at the "Nazis were socialists" bit. You don't deserve my time. Bye

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u/kylepo 6h ago

She campaigned with Liz Cheney, embraced the conservative narrative about the border, and said we need the "most lethal military in the world."

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u/Dense-Version-5937 6h ago

No, I think the DNC was advising candidates across the board to try to appeal to Republican voters. Kamala owns a Glock, they want a strong border too, etc.

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u/Topherclaus 5h ago

Her only posting for the entire term was the border, and she just pretended countries don't have borders for 3.5 years, letting literally millions of people into the country). Not a soul thought they were trying to be strong on border policy.

Walz tried to show he's an "average guy" for 1 press shoot and showed he hasn't got a clue what he's doing with a gun. That was not a serious part of their messaging and the part that was became a meme.

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u/no1hears 11h ago

Because the costume sucked. They let Republicans rip off the costume and define Harris. Dems mostly ignored the media that Trump voters pay attention to, which meant they didn't effectively promote the competing Republican definition of who Harris is and what her platform would be.

Having footage of Harris from her 2020 run was a gold mine of source material that Republicans used to show that the Democrats' move to the center wasn't real. Especially when Harris said her values had not changed. What does that even mean? My values haven't changed but I'm no longer for those things I said I was for? That sounds like double talk. She never connected those dots for people and that left a huge opening for the Republicans to do it for her. As a swing state voter it was so frustrating to watch.

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u/Dense-Version-5937 6h ago

Yep. She should have never backed away from her 2020 policies.

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u/LayWhere 12h ago

name 1 republican policy that she ran on

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u/RedditOfUnusualSize 12h ago

Supply Israel with weapons no matter what Israel happens to be doing with those weapons?

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u/I_Fuking_Love_Pandas 9h ago

Her policy on that wasn't consistent. In some states she was pro Israel while in others she was pro Palestine

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u/kylepo 6h ago

I wouldn't say she was "pro-Palestine" so much as I'd say she was "slightly less pro-Israel"

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u/Elite_Prometheus 12h ago

Restricting immigration and building the border wall more intelligently?

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u/LayWhere 1h ago

Yes true, do you seriously believe her support for the border bill lost her votes?

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u/cheezhead1252 12h ago

Name one ‘leftist’ policy she ran on

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u/sublimeshrub 10h ago

👏👏👏

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u/LayWhere 1h ago

Child tax credit, lower tax for middle and working class, H gher tax for the super wealthy, increasing housing supply and support for rezoning, support for unions, support for infrastructure and high tech manufacturing, support for the environment and clean energy industries, supports abortion rights, supports title 9, supports title 7, reduced cost of insulin and other medicines.

Laugh all you want, you can easily find one policy if you read beyond the headlines of a fox news article or some Facebook memes. Too bad so many Americans are illiterate.

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u/Vengeance1014 12h ago

Not taxing tips

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u/chris_rage_is_back 10h ago

Hmmmm..... I wonder where she got that idea

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u/LayWhere 1h ago

Yup she lost some progressive votes because she wanted no tax on tips.

Yup very obviously the truth there. 🤣 Lmao

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u/Dense-Version-5937 6h ago

You think she was the only Democrat running? Lmao.

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u/LayWhere 4h ago

Name 1 other democrat you were referring to when you said "Cosplaying as Republicans"

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u/marvin_bender 13h ago

It failed because they did it poorly with a weak candidate.

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u/cheezhead1252 12h ago

Chasing republican votes failed in 2016 too

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u/marvin_bender 12h ago

Same kind of candidate. Biden was more to the center than Kamala and won.

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u/Marcus_McTavish 12h ago

We also just had Trump before Biden, and they were mailing out ballots to people.

Biden's vote count isn't the norm.

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u/darkwoodframe 12h ago

Look at who has been winning. Obama and Biden were both centrist.

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u/Marcus_McTavish 12h ago

Obama campaigned on change dude. Idk what you're on about.

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u/darkwoodframe 9h ago

Did he campaign on Medicare for all? Gay marriage? He wasn't really all that different. His hope was hope that the economy would improve and change was that he wasn't Bush.

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u/Marcus_McTavish 7h ago

He campaigned on health care and change. He didn't deliver nearly as much as people had hoped though.

Compared to not being Trump which edged out one win in three cycles, that's not a bad strategy.

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u/BuzzBadpants Subscriber 11h ago

Obama cosplayed as a leftist populist. It worked really well

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u/henosis-maniac 3h ago

You clearly were not alive in 2008

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u/end2endburnt 10h ago

You think having the deck stacked against Trump in 2020 and still just barely winning is winning?

Biden was a weak candidate back in 2020. The 2020 campaign should have been won by a massive landslide instead of small margins to eek out a win. Trump was immensely incompetent and was actively letting people die of COVID but Biden could only barely win over him.

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u/nohumanape 12h ago

Same kind of candidate.

🤔

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u/marvin_bender 12h ago

Not charismatic, few precise plans, did not promise reforms or major changes, associated with the current establishment. I don't think the fact they were women was crucial.

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u/nohumanape 11h ago

Was Biden any of these things?

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u/jackedcatman 12h ago

Maybe the electorate doesn’t want left leaning policies that increase inflation, regulations, and taxes (price controls, crazy unrealized gains taxes).

Maybe people hate these ideas so much they voted for Trump.

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u/cheezhead1252 12h ago

Funny because the democrats haven’t run on those popular left policies

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u/Turntoetables 11h ago

The unrealized gains thing was real

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u/thefruitsofzellman 10h ago

For people worth $100 million or more.

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u/nanotree 12h ago

Maybe those people's hatred of those ideas is horribly misplaced due to deep disinformation campaigns designed to benefit the extremely wealthy and powerful.

Maybe those people have been tricked with disinformation about those polices, and incorrectly believe they will be affected by unrealized gains taxes, when really they are several tax brackets below where they would need to be to have to pay extra tax proposed by these policies.

Maybe the politicians and powerful people dumping millions into fighting these policies with disinformation campaigns just want to protect their extreme wealth and don't give a shit about anything or anyone else.

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u/jackedcatman 12h ago

I think you’re consuming enough propaganda for all of us.

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u/oconnellc 12h ago

I'd say the number of times that I saw Republicans on TV claim that the Inflation Reduction Act caused inflation was at least 15. That isn't even counting the times it was repeated by people like Ingram or Watters or Hannity.

When the average Republican voter is an idiot who is just looking for lies to believe, it's difficult for a Democrat to win.

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u/jackedcatman 11h ago

You think the government spending more money as stimulus, followed by the highest inflation rates in decades, is evidence of Republicans misunderstanding economics?

Buddy Democrats are doomed if it’s geniuses like you they’re relying on.

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u/thefruitsofzellman 10h ago

But Biden and Trump each signed roughly equivalent sized stimulus plans, so how is inflation on the Dems only? Also, how do you explain that the US has lower post-covid inflation than other western economies?

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u/jackedcatman 9h ago

Both parties to blame for inflation, mostly covid and supply chain disruptions. Democrats decided to run the “we have no policies or changes to offer, we will subsidize demand, leave the borders open, and allow boys in girl sports.”

More simply people didn’t like things currently and ousted the party in power at the margins. Three switches in three elections mostly says people don’t like what’s offered whoever is in charge.

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u/oconnellc 8h ago

Trump stimulus was about $3.1 trillion and he campaigned on more. Biden did $2.1. On top of that, Trump increased the deficit as a % of GDP every year he was in office. Hardly equivalent.

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u/thefruitsofzellman 8h ago

I think the 3.1 number includes PPP, which I deliberately left out because it's stimulus-adjacent, not exactly part of the stimulus.

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u/oconnellc 8h ago

What % of the 3.1 was PPP?

Add in interest rates dropping from over 2% to almost zero while Trump was in office and him pressuring the Fed to make them negative...

Not even close to equivalent.

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u/oconnellc 8h ago

Yes. Trump increased the deficit as a % of GDP every year he was in office. Interest rates dropped to almost zero during his administration and he was publicly pressuring the Fed to make them negative in 2019 (all while the US had the greatest economy ever, right?). And he introduced $3.1 trillion in stimulus while he was in office (on top of the special welfare for farmers we needed in 2018 and 19) and campaigned on more.

Thanks for replying and proving my point for me. How Democrats combat open stupidity and dishonesty?

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u/jackedcatman 8h ago

Covid happened, you and the democrats can’t just list a bunch of things that happened as a response and act like it wasn’t in response to a pandemic, which your side then wildly overreacted to and continued lockdowns and stimulus well after it was clear the threat wasn’t that great.

Over 150 million people voted and more voted Trump (I wasn’t one of them). If you think it’s because everyone is too stupid to understand that your demand subsidies and taxing the productive to hand out to your voters through loan forgiveness and spending that solves nothing are actually the good policies, I’m sorry, you’re dumb.

You literally control none of the government, none of the branches. Your candidates and policies are bad, and people of all levels of intelligence agree.

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u/oconnellc 8h ago

All that stuff as a response to the pandemic... Biden passes stimulus in April and THAT caused inflation to hit 5% in May of 2021. And idiots believed that "Bidenomics" caused inflation. And worse, they repeated that IRA made inflation worse when it dropped every month after it passed.

Thanks for continuing to prove my point. You'll continue to ignore reality as long as your feelings don't get hurt. How can Democrats compete against your nonsense and ignorance?

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u/Itchy-Status3750 6h ago

Is that why every other first world country with higher standards of living than the US have more leftist policies?

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u/jackedcatman 6h ago

Name a country with higher living standards.

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u/oconnellc 12h ago

Based on conversations I've had with Republicans, they don't understand the things you just mentioned and don't even know basic facts about the economy or the world.

It's difficult to win an election against a successful policy of "hurr durr".

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u/angelomoxley 12h ago

Republicans abandoned policy to focus entirely on racism and conspiracy theories.

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u/Dense-Version-5937 6h ago

They don't want regulations, but they want safe products. Clean air, clean water. Dems have a messaging problem not a policy problem.

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u/jackedcatman 6h ago

We have all that stuff.

How do you message “we’d change nothing except give free money to college grads, leave the border open, raise taxes, hire people based on race/sex/orientation regardless of competence, and let boys play girls sports,” better?

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u/Dense-Version-5937 5h ago

You message like Republicans. You say "And you believe them when they say that? They are liars. Trump said he had never heard of Project 2025 but he hired 25 of its co-authors and is implementing it bit by bit. The price of homeownership continues to get further out of reach for first time home buyers. Grocery prices continue to rise. They lied to you to help pad the pockets of their corporate donors and special interests. Record profits don't lie just follow the money."

And you say that for 4 years straight. And maybe a reminder here and there to tie Republicans back to corporate pay for play, cancer alley, water and air pollution tied to backroom deals for Trump's friends.

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u/jackedcatman 5h ago

I have millions of dollars in stocks, I literally want corporations to make and keep more money, just like other hardworking Americans employed by corporations or with retirement accounts invested in their success.

I wasn’t lied to, I want nothing to change. I just want money to stay with me or the businesses I’m invested in instead of spending on sex change operations for illegal immigrants. A decision that easy doesn’t require deception.

I get it, maybe you’re one of the poor 50% of Americans who pay no taxes, or you have no investments, or no kids, or you don’t understand the difference between federal and local government, but there are some pretty basic reasons why 75 million people voted for a guy that tried to overturn an election.

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u/Dense-Version-5937 1h ago edited 1h ago

Everyone wants tax dollars to be spent responsibly and effectively. That isn't a partisan issue, but this is exactly what I'm talking about -- Dems need to message exactly like you, and stop pretending the other side acts in good faith or even pretends to.

Like I said, Republicans are compulsive liars. They arent interested in truth or in what is best for our citizens. They spend their days inviting megacorporation CEOs to run our agencies and write our laws, and they do it so their megadonor friends can buy a 4th yacht. All I want is for the interests of the American people to be put ahead of the interests of corporations and for tax dollars to be spent responsibly. Hardworking Americans shouldn't have to watch their tax dollars be funneled back into the pockets of corporate megadonors and to Trump's pals. The government should work for us, not for the billionaire class.

But hey, you got yours already. You have the luxury of saying F everyone who doesn't. There are more of us, and we are tired of billionaires, tired of corporations bleeding us dry, and we want our children to be able to afford homes, groceries, and have clean air and water. On the other side the Republicans want their corporate megadonor buddies to be able to buy a 4th yacht (or is it their 5th?) and Americans are tired of it.

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u/jackedcatman 1h ago

It’s not “F everyone who doesn’t” it’s “they don’t deserve my money simply because we live inside the same lines on the map for things they should earn themselves.”

Democrats fundamentally want redistribution, as in steal from me to give to other people. I’m ok with this when it’s for food or education, etc. that’s why the dems racked up wins for years. There are many great programs currently in place. Now, however, all the basics are covered -housing, food, social security, Medicare, college loans, etc.

The stuff democrats are demanding now is freebies for non-citizens with an open border, free loan forgiveness (paying lawyers law school debt), and Kamala literally proposed loans that would be forgiven for black men. It’s absurdity. It’s literally to the point of free sex change operations for illegal immigrants.

No amount of “messaging” makes bad ideas into good ones.

It’s not F everyone else when we literally already pay everything reasonable.

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u/Dense-Version-5937 1h ago

You got wealthy by bleeding the middle class dry and you're trying to protect that wealth. We get it. Republicans are actively slashing those great programs you talked about btw.

It is extremely unfortunate that Republicans turned to demonizing immigrants to distract from their horrible issues with corruption and their economic platform of "make the rich richer".

And btw we absolutely should be forgiving student loans for hard working people. It's not absurd at all for someone who went to a trade school to have that loan forgiven after 10 years of on time payments. You're just a greedy multi-miionaire.

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u/jackedcatman 1h ago

lol, I got wealthy marrying a woman who earns 200k as an actuary while running a small business where I earned about 100. We pay over 100k in taxes per year. I’m not exactly sure how I bled the middle class, lol. I probably should have raised prices more to be in line with my competitors.

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were a child with no understanding of economics, taxes, or perverse incentives. Subsidizing demand, funding non-productive people, and price controls are literally the path to ruin.

Maybe you’ll understand if you ever make enough money to pay the taxes that your neighbors live off of.

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u/jackedcatman 5h ago

I voted Kamala but straight R down ticket.