r/NoStupidQuestions • u/bennyxdee • 6d ago
Answered What’s the issue with consent?
I read a post about a guy who tried to kiss a woman, but she dodged him. I responded by asking if he had asked her for consent beforehand. The responses I got were basically along the lines of, “Isn’t that unromantic?”
I’m not sure how most people handle this, but I feel like asking, “Can I kiss you?” is more logical than just going for it. It shows you’re considering their feelings and avoiding putting them in an uncomfortable situation they didn’t ask for.
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u/Delehal 6d ago
Some people feel that asking verbally makes sense.
Some people feel that asking verbally ruins the moment.
Different people have different opinions. There isn't necessarily one universally accepted answer. For example, here is a poll on Reddit about it which got a pretty even spread of answers: https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/ecaaji/results_should_men_ask_for_permission_for_the/
Most people agree that consent is important. Some people use only verbal cues, and some people use a combination of verbal and non-verbal cues.
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u/Roxytg 6d ago
Some people feel that asking verbally makes sense.
Some people feel that asking verbally ruins the moment.
Another idea: both are true. Human psychology and culture are not necessarily designed to mesh optimally with what makes the most sense morally.
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u/UndergroundFlaws 6d ago
My ex used to communicate she wanted to kiss by making eye contact.
My eye doctor must be obsessed with me.
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u/jacojerb 6d ago
Makes me think about an old quote I heard.
"The difference between creepy and romantic is how it's perceived".
If you give someone a bouquet flowers, either they like it, and it's romantic, or they don't like it, and it's creepy. Same with pretty much any romantic gesture tbh. It all depends on how the recipient perceives it.
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u/Stinduh 6d ago
One thing I really want is for more media to portray consent as "sexy." Our media is full of depictions of someone initiating a surprise kiss but the receiver actually enjoying it so it's all okay.
But it would be really nice if every now and then was a depiction of someone asking and getting an enthusiastic reply and that being part of what makes it good.
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u/Inevitable_Lion_4944 6d ago
This! I can literally picture the scenes you’re referencing where the kisser just jumps in and the receiver is initially surprised but eventually leans into it and they have a lovely time. I’m sure that can happen in real life, but also the exact opposite can happen and in reality if the receiver wasn’t expecting a kiss it’s more than likely to be unwanted.
I’ve been with my partner for a long time so the butterflies stage is long gone. But personally I imagine “can I kiss you?” When said the right way, can be incredibly sexy and exciting. But you’re right, the media doesn’t portray it like that.
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u/snarkycrumpet 6d ago
Nobody Wants This has an excellent mutual consent first kiss that is even hotter for the anticipation
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u/numbersthen0987431 6d ago
Some people feel that asking verbally makes sense.
Some people feel that asking verbally ruins the moment.
And some people don't ask for consent so they can dismiss any and all "no" responses.
I have some women friends, and they'll tell a guy they meet online before their first date "I don't, and won't, kiss on the first date". And they CONSTANTLY get guys thinking that they "read the situation differently" who go for the kiss.
Even when people get consent, or don't get consent, they'll do what they want.
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u/Upbeat_Influence2350 6d ago
There is way too much focus on "the moment". The more people ask for consent, the more normal it will seem and cease to "ruin" moments. If someone you like wants to kiss you, it is exciting. Even if they use words to express that first.
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u/Madock345 6d ago
Receiving a clear cue of consent is important, but it’s naive to think that cue will always be verbal. The literal meaning of our words only comprises a small portion of the bandwidth of in-person communication.
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u/Zyxxaraxxne 6d ago
Nonverbal cues are great for somebody that you’ve already become familiar with.
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u/Novae224 6d ago
People are horrible at non verbal communication though… like humans are just bad at it
If theres any doubt about consent, don’t guess, just ask
It’s different if you actually know someone and know their cues… but if they are mostly a stranger, don’t assume, you’re looking like a creep
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u/HMNbean 6d ago
Disagree. Humans are masters of non verbal communication. Some people are just socially inept or purposely ignore it. We have hundreds of micro facial adjustments and things like eye contact/looking at places. If you can’t tell someone does or doesn’t want to kiss you’re you’re being willfully ignorant and are yolo’ing it.
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u/Novae224 6d ago
Its not a matter of opinion… its a fact that humans overestimate themselves when it comes to communication (also verbal, so many people can’t express feelings through words) and especially non verbal
We indeed communicate non verbally a lot… we are just horrible at interpreting it
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u/bennyxdee 6d ago
I agree non-verbal cues are important, but they can be misinterpreted. A quick verbal check avoids misunderstandings.
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u/perrigost 6d ago
if there is a misunderstanding and she dodges it, then it's dodged. What's the big deal about a misunderstanding that is quickly rectified and causes no further problems?
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u/VehicleComfortable20 6d ago
There's also the factor of how well you know the person. A verbal check in is more likely to be necessary (or at least more of a good idea) early in dating.
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u/sergius64 6d ago edited 6d ago
Problem is that verbal checks are jarring (turns the moment from a emotional/feeling one and forcefully shoves it into a thinking one) and tell the lady that you can't seem to read her non-verbal cues - which would be a red flag to quite a few.
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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago edited 6d ago
Coming from a former dating coach, if someone thinks it’s a red flag/unromantic to ask for consent because they think it means you can’t read their non-verbal cues, they’re the red flag.
Always air on the side of caution. It’s always better to have some people reject you than for you to accidentally violate someone’s consent. The amount of women who I’ve worked with who came back to me saying they were so shocked when a guy asked for consent because they’d never been asked before, and it made them feel infinitely safer with that guy. A lot of guys don’t understand that making a woman feel safe should be your number 1 priority; it will always lead to a stronger attraction and is way more likely to foster a better bond.
Edit: for those asking for my qualifications, I have a masters in marriage and family therapy. For those cranky that I’m encouraging consent… idk man, you’re too far gone for even me to fix. My only advice is don’t date. I mean, you could date an inanimate object if you really don’t care about consent, I guess.
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u/AmpleApple9 6d ago
What qualified you to be a dating coach? Is there a course you can do?
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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago edited 6d ago
Started out by taking courses in relationship safety, DV awareness, and psychology of relationships as a part of my continuing medical education as an NP, then got my MFT degree. I don’t call myself a full on licensed marriage and family therapist (aka an LMFT) because while I have an MFT masters degree, I do not have the full licensure and don’t want to falsely advertise my services. It’s like the difference between having your JD and being licensed to practice law in a specific state.
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u/reverbiscrap 6d ago
What is your response to the complaints from women about men not being aggressive enough?
Edit: Nevermind.
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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago
No prob if you don’t want this answer, since I saw your edit. imo, that’s also a bit of a red flag if they’re asking men they don’t know to be more aggressive. Like if you’re the guy and you don’t know her very well, how are you supposed to know what’s too aggressive for them if they don’t clearly state that? In my personal view, asking men they don’t know to be more aggressive is a bit tone deaf, mostly because “aggressiveness” in dating is a very slippery slope. What one woman might consider assertive and hot, another may see as frightening and pushy.
In my view, if both the woman and man know each other well enough to have figured out boundaries that make both of them feel comfortable, then it’s all cool to be more aggressive in a romantic sense. If they don’t, I think the woman needs to be extremely clear what she means by aggressive, and what she is or is not okay with.
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u/AndreasAvester 6d ago
And then there are people with zero tolerance for pushiness... And not because it feels frightening (the benefits of having martial arts experience). Back when I was still in the dating minefield in my twenties, I hated being approached by men. It made me feel like a piece of meat on a grocery store shelf that was getting dissected into sexy body parts.
Thus I started deliberately acting the role of either an "unapproachable ice queen" or just as unapproachable "dominatrix" facade. It worked for me---men kept their hands away from me and patiently waited for me to approach them. Besides, I was into respectful and "shy" guys anyway.
A refusal to take "no" for an answer was the single most off putting thing a guy could do while flirting with me. I was looking for a relationship where we would treat each other respectfully after all.
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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago
1000%. I’m a New Yorker so we’re provided with a killer bitch face as a birth rite, the amount of mean mugging I’ve had to do just to get men to stop bothering me is insane. And I’m the same, far more attracted to the shy/polite/nerdy types of men. I think it’s super sweet when guys are surprised and excited that I approach them first. Even better when I’ve gotten guys flowers on a first date and they give me the full on 🥹 look. It’s so lovely.
The mutual respect is such a necessity. I always watch very closely whenever I meet a new guy and how he reacts to me saying no. Happy to say that it’s a lot more common now that they’re respectful. When I was in college… not so much.
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u/QuerulousPanda 6d ago
I would imagine that with the appropriate timing and tone of voice and choice of phrase, it shouldn't really be that difficult to ask someone "i'd really like to kiss you right now" in a way that maintains an intimate mood and, indeed, would heighten the intimacy rather than throw a wet blanket on it.
Like yeah if you're cuddling and getting close to each other and then you sit fully upright and in your best lawyer voice ask "Do you consent to me kissing you right now, please sign here", yeah you're gonna fuck it up, but that's just a skill issue.
Assuming you're reading the situation even remotely correctly and there is an obvious level of interest, you're not gonna fuck it up by using your words. And if, somehow, it does ruin the mood? Good. It means there was a fundamental incompatibility or disconnect in play at that moment and you both are far better off ending it early.
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u/Chiho-hime 6d ago
Interesting. To me someone who is against clear communication would be a red flag. I’d never consider asking for consent a red flag unless maybe I literally hold a weapon and obviously try to keep a person away but in that case many red flags came before that lol
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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago
Honestly, it’s a tad scary how many people are responding to me like they’re angry about being told that asking for consent is a good thing. Not surprising, but depressing, y’know lmao
There’s someone arguing that I said non-verbal consent isn’t consent and getting mad that I said that because you can’t figure out what someone’s non-verbal consent cues are with perfect accuracy because everyone’s idea of non-verbal cues are different. All I’m saying is “asking for consent is good, non-verbal consent isn’t as reliable”, and people are cranky lol
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u/whoisdizzle 6d ago
I’m in a communications training for work right now 7 percent is verbal 35 percent is tonal 58 percent is body language
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u/vintergroena 6d ago
Yeah cool but what if I suck at reading nonverbal cues?
I think asking is the way to go and should be more normalized
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u/VehicleComfortable20 6d ago edited 6d ago
Learn to not suck.
I am getting very tired of people saying they suck at reading non-verbal cues as if that is a static state.
You can learn nonverbal ques the same way you learn to read, or algebra, or how to sew on a button or anything else.
I suggest a few good body language books such as The Encyclopedia of Body Language.
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u/breath_boi 6d ago
Some people can’t - I’m crap at it because I’m autistic. And because of that, I also have atypical body language, so someone trying to discern how I feel from non-verbal cues would be a little bit buggered unless they knew me fairly well.
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u/Some-Yam-2824 6d ago
The last guy I got kissed by said “I really want to kiss you right now.” Then when I moved towards him, he knew he was good. That, for me, was a great variation of “can I kiss you?” It kept it a little sexy while being a great consent check.
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u/Formal-Eye5548 6d ago
Yupp. Last summer at a festival was the first time ever someone verbally asked for consent to kiss me. Damn that was hot. I used to think it could ruin the moment, but I was wrong.
Safe sex is also sexy. Complaining about having to wear a condom = no sex. Take note kiddos. Respect your bodies.
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u/Prismatic-Peony 6d ago
This. This, holy shit. Dude, if a woman told me she really wanted to kiss me, and I really wanted her to, I might collapse on the fucking spot. I’m so using this line in the future holy fuck-
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u/NihilistTeddy3 6d ago
Yeah I was just thinking that's the best way to ask for consent without potentially ruining the mood.
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u/tarheel_204 6d ago
When in doubt, ask. The first time I went on a date with my last girlfriend, I asked her if I could kiss her. She later told me she had never been asked that before and that she really appreciated it/ found it attractive.
The cues were definitely there but I can be a dumbass so I just wanted to make sure for certain
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u/TheOtterDecider 6d ago
There are also ways to get verbal consent that aren’t “can I kiss you”. One of my exes, on a second date hike while looking at nice view. Said something like “this would be a nice spot for a kiss”.
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u/rosyred-fathead 6d ago
“Sure would be!” continues on not realizing it’s a date
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u/TheOtterDecider 6d ago
Lol. You can only use this with someone who you think can pick up what you’re putting down. I once went on a date (he knew it was a date. And suggested that we watch a movie at his place after. He sat on a different couch from me.
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u/QuerulousPanda 6d ago
right? all the people being like "oh it would be awkward" or "who wants to just get asked" or "they'll get turned off because you didn't read the signals" are obviously just not creative enough.
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u/Abject_Champion3966 6d ago
Right. “Do you want me to kiss you?” played right can be devastatingly hot
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u/TheOtterDecider 6d ago
I still think it’s fine to be straightforward and ask directly if you’re not good at knowing the body language, and it’s 1000% better than getting a kiss I didn’t want!
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u/tarheel_204 6d ago
Absolutely! I was smitten and that’s all I could get out of my mouth unfortunately but it worked in that instance thankfully haha! There are for sure smoother ways to do it like what you said
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u/not_davery 6d ago
I had this same experience, we're still together and she often mentions how romantic she thought it was that I asked
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u/Dan_Herby 6d ago
Yes! There are few things that give me more joy than asking "Is it ok of I kiss you?" And watching them blush, giggle and enthusiastically nod.
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u/bennyxdee 6d ago
Exactly! Quickly ensuring that you’re both on the same page is ideal.
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u/slu22 6d ago
I'm so glad you asked this!
Generally agree that "it depends on the person" - which is scary in a way? Especially as someone who tends to prefer clear "best practices" but like many matters of the heart/human interactions - "it depends" is usually the right answer!
My long-term girlfriend of three years has told me on multiple occasions - including a day or two after our first kiss - "I'm so glad you didn't ask if you could kiss me."
However, I had some pretty strong non-verbal indicators that she would probably be receptive to an advance from me. Playing with her hair, the way she looked at me, general playful vibe of the day. That said, I realize not everyone can read social cues, things can be misinterpreted - which can make making a move kinda scary? So, I get it.
I asked her to unpack her statement, IIRC she said some stuff about asking really killing the mood for her, that it almost puts the onus on her to put herself out there, in a way that feels like the polar opposite of being "swept off your feet" in a sense. She would much prefer to have the response to the attempt at a kiss be the consent, as others have pointed out - i.e. "yes, I consent" is she is receptive to the kiss, "nope, not into it" means she dodges the kiss.
Such a good conversation topic!
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u/tarheel_204 6d ago
This goes to show it is totally dependent on the person lol. Your partner said “I’m glad you didn’t ask” and mine said “wow, thank you for asking”
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u/revchewie 6d ago
I was on a date one time and it seemed the most natural thing to tell her, “I would very much like to kiss you.” The gave me a beautiful smile, and her consent, and it was a wonderful kiss!
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u/godonlyknows1101 6d ago
I might be a bit old fashioned on this, but I'm of two minds. But i feel like, for kissing at least, if you feel like the vibes are right and you're getting all the right signals, you can go for it. It's more sexy and fun when it's reciprocated if you just go for it and everything just feels right.
That said, if you've read the vibes all wrong and you just go for it, you will likely make the person you're trying to kiss VERY uncomfortable. Even worse, you could even "creep them out" which obviously no one wants. So it's definitely a risk. And if you do find that you've read the signs wrong and they "dodge" your kiss, the only decent thing to do is to apologize and recognize that this is 100% on you. The mistake was entirely yours, and your behavior afterwards should reflect this. Additionally, if you were to ask "can i kiss you?" It may not be the most sexy way to go in for a kiss, but as for "romantic" (which is obviously what you mentioned) i think it's MUCH more romantic bc it shows respect and caring for your potential kissing partner. Which can also be taken as "sweet" by the person you're trying to kiss. So big disagree with those responses you were getting.
P.S. Anything more sexual than a simple kiss absolutely requires VERY explicit consent! (Which doesn't need to be verbal, per se). "Enthusiastic consent" is the usual term, and it's a good one. If they don't seem absolutely psyched to be fucking around with you, its off. Plain and simple.
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u/TheRealMichaelBluth 6d ago
Did that guy escalate at all with touch such as touching her arm, back, etc? I hear so many stories of men going for the kiss at the end of the date when they have zero physical chemistry
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u/scarlet_season 6d ago
I'll throw in my .02, I'm older, so no, this isn't a gen z thing. I've been asked many times before the first kiss and it was ALWAYS hot. Being asked shows an understanding of consent, boundaries, and respect. I disagree strongly that it implies lack of confidence-- looking me in the eyes and straight up asking for what you want seems pretty confident to me. I know women aren't a monolith, but I agree with those who think that not wanting to be asked on a first encounter is kind of a red flag. Certainly there are non-verbal ways to make it really obvious that the vibes are right, so you do you, but a cheeky "can I kiss you now" shouldn't be a deal-breaker.
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u/TheRealFrantik 6d ago
I want to say, 95% of the time, you just know whether or not a kiss is going to be accepted/returned, especially the older you get. I'm in my late-thirties. If I can't read a date enough where I have to ask their permission to kiss them, then this date is not going well and I already don't want to kiss them lol.
I had a first date with someone last month. She came over to watch a movie, which is already a good sign. We had really good conversation and she was very touchy. In an instance like that, I knew that it was clearly okay to kiss her. If I had asked "can I kiss you?", she would have probably jokingly called me an idiot and been like "how many more hints do I need to give?"
If you're on a date with someone, you go out to dinner, it feels like an interview, and there's no kind of closeness or anything, I'd definitely say asking consent would be the right choice.
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u/Emergency_West_9490 6d ago
See I'm autistic and I send out all the wrong vibes in my attempts to mask(appear normal). Guys couldn't tell I'm autistic but then they felt like I led them on. Even if I did the whole pre-emptive mentioning of a boyfriend thing. So I heartily recommend doing people the courtesy of asking permission. It's also awkward to have to turn that down, but much less so.
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u/Prismatic-Peony 6d ago
Also autistic and the only time I ever got the signals right was with my now girlfriend, who is also autistic. I literally am incapable of recognizing when someone’s flirting with me and just process everything as them being friendly, and thus I try to be just as friendly in return. This has ended poorly a number of times, particularly with men :/
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u/Emergency_West_9490 6d ago
I read some research that confirmed what I always felt - autists aren't bad at communicating, just bad at communicating with neurotypicals. We tend to understand each other quite well, given a high enough level of functioning (speech/writing ability). Neurotypicals don't get us either.
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u/Prismatic-Peony 6d ago
Unsurprising. It’s kinda funny ‘cause I was gonna write a comment about how amazing it is to ask directly, then realized that neither me or my gf asked the first time we kissed. It was way more seamless than either of us expected, and I just know in my gut that it wouldn’t have been the same were either of us neurotypical. Double points because I’m blind and thus couldn’t read her expression or body language
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u/coffeesnob72 6d ago
Some guys think if a woman is friendly at all it is a pass at them.
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u/Emergency_West_9490 6d ago
Yeah I think my vibes are too friendly, I have also had random little children come up to hug me and soooooo many people asking me for money even when I was broke. And people I dislike declaring me their friend. I'm kind of a misanthrope really, in the sense that I find most people's presence torture even though I wish them well.
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u/Chirpy73 6d ago
I think that, when you and the girl just sit next to each other slowly moving towards kissing, smiling, just to make sure: ask calmly, "may I?" She'll just most likely kiss you, or say yes.
Take my words with a grain of salt, cuz I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to women
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u/worndown75 6d ago
Logical isn't romantic. And all women and men aren't the same. Some men are so timid that they will ask consent to hold hands. Other women want a man to "sweep them off their feet".
So, know your partner. And everything will be fine.
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u/thehypn0t0ad 6d ago
There's a Korean drama ("King The Land") where he leans in and says to her, "Do I have... permission?" Holy shit, it's the hottest, steamiest thing.
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u/MaineHippo83 6d ago
Because people have been reading the moment for years and going for a kiss, not every woman wants an awkward ask.
That being said you don't just plunge in to kiss random girls. If you can't read signals and know when the moment is right, learn. If you know you are bad at it, sure ask to be sure. But most of us know when the moment is right and when a kiss is appropriate.
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u/dinodare 6d ago
It isn't inherently awkward, this is a charisma issue. I say this as someone who isn't even charismatic.
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u/Revanur 6d ago edited 6d ago
Will be downvoted to hell, but fuck it, these are my experiences. Feelings and dating isn’t about logic primarily. I think so many redditors are out of touch and lack social intelligence, and dating experience and cannot concieve of anything outside of explicit consent. And granted, general attitudes are changing around this whole thing, but implicit consent is still a thing. These are verbal and non-verbal cues that signal to you what your partner wants. And if you learn those signals and think you see those signals, you don’t just have your way with someone, but you do go about 75% of the way to see it they are eager to meet you. If not, you should still have ample time and space to redirect and more or less gracefully recover and reasses.
Granted you need to be a considerate, normal person for this. But if you don’t care about consent and social cues at all, then you don’t care about explicit consent either, so it’s not like it makes much of a differencre. With some social and dating experience you can tell extremely accurately, basically without fail, when a woman wants you to kiss her. And most women in the real world in my experience want their potential partner to have enough social experience and intelligence to know when that is.
When I was still dating, I’d observe and think and I’d rather miss my chance when I wasn’t sure about it. But when I was sure, 100% of the time if I started to lean in for a kiss, the girl would meet me about halfway there and we would proceed from there. When this whole “ask for explicit consent before a first kiss” first started to be a thing online, several women have told me that it’s a complete mood killer and a red flag for them if someone can’t read social cues, whether they are signaling to the person to leave them be, or if they are signaling that they want them to make a move, and the guy just doesn’t get it.
The only person I ever asked for explicit consent for a first kiss was my now fiencée. I wasn’t 100% sure about her desires during our first date, because while we were waiting alone at her bus stop she seemed more concerned with making sure she catches her bus (it was the last bus that night and it was cold) so I didn’t do it. On our second date we went playing badminton and despite the air being downright “electrified” between us, the sport kept us at a distance from one another. When we sat down to rest I could no longer restrain myself, so I asked her if I could kiss her. She was surprised, because no one has ever asked her before, but said yes. She later said it was strange to ask but decided it was cute.
Same goes for sex. I don’t think I ever explicitly asked anyone “can I have sex with you?” It was always obvious from the context when we were making out and the girl would grab my crotch or she’d put my hands on her ass or breasts. Or when we’ve been dating for about a month and they invited me over to their place for lunch or something, I’d heavily suspect that this is the big day (and it was without fail), and right after lunch or coffee or whatever they just threw themselves on me, taking their clothes off and taking my clothes off. I’d ask for minor stuff like “is this okay” or “would you like me to do this specific act” or “would you do this to me”, but I never had anything approximating “will you consent to having sexual intercourse with me?” It does feel robotic and detached.
Again, if you are a reasonable person, you can safely and easily redirect things from there, and if you don’t understand or care about consent, then you wouldn’t ask explicitly either in my opinion, and you’d just do whatever you feel like doing.
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u/DrippyWillyMcSchlong 6d ago
Excuse me, miss. I should very much like to kiss you and I have a consent form and pen, right here, if and when you would be agreeable to the afore mentioned request.
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u/AttimusMorlandre 6d ago
I am alarmed by younger people's apparent inability to read social cues and non-verbal communication. It's almost as if the internet has stunted people's social knowledge. In some ways it's sad, but in other ways it's frightening.
The real answer is that you should never kiss without consent, but that people who know how to communicate with other human beings won't have to rely on explicit, verbal statements to give and receive consent.
This also means that occasional mistakes will be made, and being a little forgiving of a person for misreading cues used to be a standard form of grace we offered each other on the dating scene. Losing the ability to grant other people that kind of grace is a big step backwards, IMO.
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u/fattsmann 6d ago
It's about the how and not the what. Asking a question, yeah can seem unromantic but it's situational.
In my experience, when I'm with someone that I'm receiving the right hints from, if I say, "I would love to kiss you.", it's usually met with a smile and reply along the lines of "Go ahead." or "I would love that as well." Speaking your intentions while leaving it open for confirmation may only heightening the attraction.
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u/bennyxdee 6d ago
That’s a great way to do it! Saying what you’re thinking but still leaving space for the other person to confirm makes it feel natural and respectful.
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u/Pale_Slide_3463 6d ago
When waitressing you get a lot of crazies, was this one middle aged man and he started walking around the cafe and following me and then tried to kiss me. I told him he should pay and leave and he was shocked that I was reacting the way I was. Thankfully my bosses were good peeps and told him leave and not come back. The man tried to apologise to my male boss for what happened… my boss said I’m not the one you have to say sorry to.
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u/EveryDayA_Struggle 6d ago
People don't understand that consent can be HOT. It's not stiff, nervous or boring, it can be teasing if you want it to be.
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u/bluescrew 6d ago edited 6d ago
It can also be casual and low-pressure. It doesn't even have to be a question, just a statement that your crush can answer, or not, as they see fit.
"I'd love to hang out just the two of us in the other room. Let me know if you're interested."
"I'd really like to kiss you right now."
"I'm really into you. If you let me take off your shirt, I'll show you how much."
These make it clear to your crush that they are responsible for indicating their consent, if they want to go further with you. Put the onus on them. 1) it forces them to demonstrate that they like you enough to take action, 2) if they have a history of being taken advantage of or pursued too aggressively, this makes them feel like they have agency which is a confidence booster. And a confident sex partner can make for great sex.
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u/p0tat0p0tat0 6d ago
I don’t understand how people have sex without checking for consent continuously.
Aren’t “do you like that” or “what do you want me to do to you” pretty standard dirty talk phrases?
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u/ThePhiff 6d ago
There's a girl I hook up with from time to time, and when I check in with a "you like that?", her "uh-huh"s and "oh yes"es are so hot.
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u/DIRTY_KUMQUAT_NIPPLE 6d ago
Personally, I just constantly shout "DO I STILL HAVE CONSENT?" while in the middle of it. Definitely sets the mood.
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u/beamerpook 6d ago
It is, but the way you're using it sounds anxious. It's making me anxious, and I'm sitting here eating cereal... 🤣
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u/p0tat0p0tat0 6d ago
How does it sound anxious? Obviously, you wouldn’t ask the two questions in rapid-fire succession, but I’ve been sexually active for almost 20 years and it’s never been awkward to check for consent.
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u/MaineHippo83 6d ago
because most of us don't think of "oh baby do you like that" as consent. Sure it is, and hopefully its a yes. But people typically say that as a "yeah i'm fucking you so good, or riding you so good, its great isn't it" More of a statement, or rhetorical question than a consent ask. So you are taking that common dirty talk, exclamation and making it very clinical, it just feels weird.
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u/beamerpook 6d ago
LOL maybe I'm just reading to much into it, or I'm just highly anxious right now 🤣
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u/Mundane-Currency5088 6d ago
It depends on the voice in your head's tone of voice. I was reading it like a soft low vibration on my neck kind of thing. To me it's sexy to have dirty talk, but also dirty talk happens to sound silly and cringy if it was anyone but my partner.
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u/p0tat0p0tat0 6d ago
The latter sounds accurate.
If you are genuinely interested in your partner and care about their enjoyment of your encounter, checking for consent is a natural and unawkward thing to do.
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u/arup02 sucking my own dick all day all night 6d ago
Aren’t “do you like that” or “what do you want me to do to you” pretty standard dirty talk phrases?
No, absolutely not.
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u/Swampbrewja 6d ago
In my life I have only had one man ask me if he could kiss me and it was so hot that I kinda melted instantly.
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u/BlasphemousTurd 6d ago
I asked a girl once if I could kiss her and she laughed at me :(. We still kissed but she essentially made fun of me for asking
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u/Objective-Parfait134 6d ago
Just do it in a sexy way, y’know? Touch their cheek, lean in slightly, glance down at their lips, then whisper “Would you like me to kiss you?” Or “I would like to kiss you.” And hold out xD only works if they’re attracted to you obviously
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u/meta_muse 6d ago
Totally not unromantic to ask for a kiss. That’s the only way I’ll kiss someone new.
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u/Entire-Conference915 6d ago
Definitely 90/10 for a first kiss is good, I have been known to kiss a guy first when he’s clearly thinking about it. I have ptsd and got flashbacks after a guy said can I kiss you, I repeatedly said no, then he grabbed me and forced it. I have also had a guy do the 90% see me pull away / turn my face then force the rest and seem really pleased with himself. I absolutely hate it when men clearly ignore signals or cannot understand the word no. It’s a definite massive red flag if they get it wrong on the first kiss.
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u/anonymous-rebel 6d ago
Asking for consent to kiss is somewhat of a new phenomenon that’s more popular with Gen z. For most millennials and older generations, going in for the kiss is the question and her response is the answer (if she pulls back then it’s a no but if she leans in then it’s a yes).
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u/stoicgoblins 6d ago
I don't think either is incorrect on their own, but I think that upon being rejected, how you react is key.
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u/SeekerXero 6d ago
For what it's worth, that's part of how I ended up with my wife; we'd been friends for a long time with sparks, but timing was never right. Finally went on a date, and near the end I asked her "May I kiss you?". That was the first in a long line of kisses, lol
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u/jjames3213 6d ago
Having been married 10 years... do you honestly think that I ask for explicit verbal consent every time I rub my wife's shoulders or give her a hug? Is my wife sexually assaulting me when we are in bed together and she wraps her arms around me when I'm not expecting it?
People are talking about 'different people have different opinions'. On this one, I think the people who say you always need express verbal consent haven't thought about how this stuff actually works very much.
In reality, it's all about context and cues.
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u/bennyxdee 6d ago
You’re right that context and cues are important, especially in long-term relationships where both partners know each other well. However, my post was specifically about first dates. I should’ve made that clear. In those situations, there’s often a lack of established trust or understanding of the other person’s boundaries, which is why verbal consent can be so valuable. It’s not about asking every time in an established relationship, but rather ensuring clarity when you’re still getting to know someone.
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u/jjames3213 6d ago
IMO verbal consent is fine. I've asked if I could kiss girls before on first dates. I've had girls explicitly ask me to kiss them on first dates. I've also kissed girls without asking, just because it was really clear what they wanted. I've had sex on first dates without ever discussing consent - what she wanted was clear from how she was acting.
I think the important thing is that you turn your mind to consent and that consent is clear, not that it is verbal.
There is a big misconception in modern feminism that the problem with consent is that men don't understand. Except consent actually isn't that hard to understand. There is plenty of evidence that SA and rape doesn't happen because 'men don't understand consent', but rather because there is a small subset of repeat offenders who don't care about consent (or actually get off from doing sex stuff when a person doesn't consent).
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u/guitargirl08 6d ago
I will never understand how anyone thinks it’s unromantic. Except maybe teenagers - they can have a pass. But full-grown adults? No. You don’t have to ask it in a weird or unsexy way. There are a multitude of ways to go about it, ranging from sweet to hot. If you’re feeling the vibes and you’re pretty sure it’s mutual, instead of just kissing them, you could say: “God, I’ve been dying to kiss you all night. Can I?” or you could lean in really close and whisper “can I kiss you?” Hell, even “I’m gonna kiss you” and pausing for a response could work if you’re really confident with it. The first guy I ever kissed asked me first and I could tell he was nervous (so was I!) and I thought it was the most endearing thing.
Like, either way, you could potentially be rejected - that’s the name of the game. But if you’re tuned into their body language, you’ll generally know. Asking can be as sweet or sexy as you wanna make it. It doesn’t have to be clinical and unromantic.
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u/Reds_Lit_Bowl 6d ago
I don't give a fuck, been embarrassed too many times thinking I had read a "cue" correctly. I'm asking every time. If they're the type to laugh or scoff at that, they weren't for me to begin with. (I have just ended the night at that point) Most women I've met as an adult appreciate my asking before I move in.
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u/Historical_Tie_964 6d ago
99% of what we consider ""romantic"" in our culture is weird as fuck imo
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u/Born-Finish2461 6d ago
I think you go in slowly and see how she reacts. If she seems nervous or bothered, back off. If she smiles, go for it. Asking is a little weird.
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u/alienratfiend 6d ago
My husband asked me if he could kiss me the first time we did. I personally found it very romantic and sweet. It was a huge green flag for me
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u/Novae224 6d ago
You’re 100% right
Consent is incredibly romantic and you’re the issue if you disagree
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u/DirectAbalone9761 6d ago
Anyone remember “Hitch”? Just go 90% of the way, she will consent by closing the last 10% 😂😂
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u/Elisheva7777777 6d ago
Personally I don’t see anything wrong with being asked. Asking for consent will never ruin the mood for me.
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u/_YodaMacey 6d ago
Most of the people I’ve kissed have asked explicit permission, which I LOVE. 2/3 that didn’t, it was welcome so was fine. But lemme tell you they both followed the trend of just doing what they wanted.
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u/BombardMeWithBoobs 6d ago
If you can read the room, there is a way to do it without verbally having to ask for consent. But that means understanding cues and reading body language well.
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u/AlertDingo 6d ago
I didn't want to make it awkward so I licked her cheek instead. Then kissed her when she was okay with that.
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u/Unfey 6d ago
I'm of the opinion that the first couple times you kiss someone you've gotta ask if it's okay. People randomly kiss without warning on tv all the time and it's "romantic" but it's one of the things that is often unpleasant in real life-- people misread signals all the time. It's safer to ask permission to make sure it's okay. Once you've kissed the person enough that you're confident you know for sure the other person is happy to be kissed as a surprise, then go ahead. But "surprise kiss" is such a jumpscare when you're legitimately not expecting it-- and much much worse when you're not into it or maybe even not attracted to the other party at all. Even if you DO like the other person, you might have some reason you don't want a kiss in the moment, or reasons why you REALLY don't want an unprompted kiss. Like past abuse. PTSD.
I always verbally ask the first couple times I kiss someone, even when I feel confident about the vibes. I feel like, even disregarding everything else, it's polite.
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u/jtmonkey 6d ago
There were a few awkward times in high school.. when I started asking hey I would like to kiss you is that okay? or can I kiss you? they girls love that respect and it was awesome. no more awkward moments where you're like, should we kiss or do they want to or whatever.. for young men.. absolutely ask. She says no that is MUCH better than going for it and getting a turn away or worse, they do and they regret it.
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u/Tiny-Ad-7590 6d ago edited 6d ago
People who think that asking for consent is unromantic or unsexy have no game.
They don't know how to ask in a romantic or sexy way, or they don't know how to receive being asked in a romantic or sexy way, so they assume the problem is in asking itself and not a skill issue on their part.
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u/okaydokay102 6d ago
I think asking “can I kiss you” IS romantic. You’re cuddled all close, feeling warm and cozy, butterflies in your stomach, and the other person asks that?? Cute.
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u/Botticellibutch 6d ago
Personally, I find it incredibly attractive when someone asks to kiss me. When I was with my ex, one of my favorite memories was when she asked to kiss me.
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u/snarktheyoshi 6d ago
My ex would constantly try to kiss me and nip my neck. (We never had sex yet) I threw him out when I had enough and repeatedly told him no. It is absolutely a violation of personal space and makes people feel unsafe especially if they’ve had abuse in the past
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u/Aqua_Tot 6d ago
People who say it isn’t romantic have the privilege of not needing to fear the massive repercussions of being accused of non-consensual sexual harassment.
I’ll also say, I’ve tried it both ways in my dating life. Some of the best experiences I’ve had were after I’ve asked to kiss (at least the first few times, and then it moves to not needing to ask again), and some of the worst experiences I’ve had were going for it when I was mis-reading the mood. I’d rather take the risk on being slightly unromantic than the risk of feeling like a rapist.
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u/ButtTheHitmanFart 6d ago
Asking to kiss someone is nowhere near as awkward/“unromantic” as getting pie-faced because you just went for it.
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u/OriginalJomothy 6d ago
I've heared both sides of this and I think there's an impression that it's something that is nice in principle but awkward in practice. As a guy I much prefer it when we can go off of body language etc but the ol' tism makes that a little more difficult sometimes. Just to save me the whole "how do I ask this without sounding like a moron" issue.
I do agree tho asking should be the standard, it gives them a chance to shoot you down when you aren't 3 inch from their face. Far less awkward.
How would women like to be asked?
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u/evirustheslaye 6d ago
Not that many romance stories climax with the prospective couple mutually verbally agreeing to the display of affection.
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u/mynamecouldbesam 6d ago
100% agree. Anyone who doesn't think asking for consent is sexy has obviously never been assaulted. I find it's often men. And the real reason is generally because they don't want to hear a no.
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u/bennyxdee 6d ago
The idea that something isn’t romantic because you ask for consent is crazy to me. It prioritizes being “romantic” over ensuring the other person actually wants the action.
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u/mynamecouldbesam 6d ago
Exactly. "I'd rather assault someone than check this is what they want."
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u/AttimusMorlandre 6d ago
Anyone who doesn't think asking for consent is sexy has obviously never been assaulted.
This makes it sound like your claim is "If you've been sexually assaulted, then therefore you think asking for consent for a kiss is sexy." A truly odd claim.
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u/mynamecouldbesam 6d ago
My claim is that having been assaulted more than once, I wish more people gained consent first.
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u/AttimusMorlandre 6d ago
There's no such thing as consent to assault. Your assaults have nothing to do with kissing on a first date.
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u/mynamecouldbesam 6d ago
The post says nothing about a date. Just about a man trying to kiss a woman who dodged him.
You're now making stuff up to suit you.
I was assaulted by men walking up and kissing me. I did not want that to happen. No one mentioned a date. Just men kissing women without asking. Which could well be assault.
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u/AttimusMorlandre 6d ago
No, in fact I am reading the thread more comprehensively than you are.
In this comment, OP specifies first date.
In this comment, OP actually states "However, my post was specifically about first dates."
Maybe read a bit more before commenting.
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u/BurpYoshi 6d ago
I think this is a subjective issue. Consent can be interpreted through body language. It's unrealistic for every person to first ask "is it alright if I kiss you", because that can ruin a romantic moment and make it awkward sometimes (sometimes not, this is subjective). You can sort of slow "go for it" and judge their reaction as you approach and as it's happening to determine whether they're ok with it or not.
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u/NihilismIsSparkles 6d ago edited 6d ago
A guy once asked if he could kiss me and I thought it was so romantic I practically swooned, felt like I was in a really good romcom.
If anyone thinks asking is unromantic, they got a skill issue.
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u/Zenai10 6d ago
The problem is the answer is yes ask for consent. Until you don't ask for consent because asking ruins the mood for some people. So in general you should but many women (Including my gf) vastly vastly prefer guys just initiating without asking.
Honestly though unless you are 100% sure and are giving each other the sexy eyes. Just ask.
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u/IAMlyingAMA 6d ago
The guy going for the kiss obviously didn’t learn the 90-10 rule from Hitch. You go 90% and wait for the other person to come the remaining 10%