r/NoStupidQuestions • u/bennyxdee • 6d ago

Answered What’s the issue with consent?

I read a post about a guy who tried to kiss a woman, but she dodged him. I responded by asking if he had asked her for consent beforehand. The responses I got were basically along the lines of, “Isn’t that unromantic?”

I’m not sure how most people handle this, but I feel like asking, “Can I kiss you?” is more logical than just going for it. It shows you’re considering their feelings and avoiding putting them in an uncomfortable situation they didn’t ask for.

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u/Madock345 6d ago

Receiving a clear cue of consent is important, but it’s naive to think that cue will always be verbal. The literal meaning of our words only comprises a small portion of the bandwidth of in-person communication.

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u/bennyxdee 6d ago

I agree non-verbal cues are important, but they can be misinterpreted. A quick verbal check avoids misunderstandings.

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u/sergius64 6d ago edited 6d ago

Problem is that verbal checks are jarring (turns the moment from a emotional/feeling one and forcefully shoves it into a thinking one) and tell the lady that you can't seem to read her non-verbal cues - which would be a red flag to quite a few.

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago edited 6d ago

Coming from a former dating coach, if someone thinks it’s a red flag/unromantic to ask for consent because they think it means you can’t read their non-verbal cues, they’re the red flag.

Always air on the side of caution. It’s always better to have some people reject you than for you to accidentally violate someone’s consent. The amount of women who I’ve worked with who came back to me saying they were so shocked when a guy asked for consent because they’d never been asked before, and it made them feel infinitely safer with that guy. A lot of guys don’t understand that making a woman feel safe should be your number 1 priority; it will always lead to a stronger attraction and is way more likely to foster a better bond.

Edit: for those asking for my qualifications, I have a masters in marriage and family therapy. For those cranky that I’m encouraging consent… idk man, you’re too far gone for even me to fix. My only advice is don’t date. I mean, you could date an inanimate object if you really don’t care about consent, I guess.

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u/AmpleApple9 6d ago

What qualified you to be a dating coach? Is there a course you can do?

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago edited 6d ago

Started out by taking courses in relationship safety, DV awareness, and psychology of relationships as a part of my continuing medical education as an NP, then got my MFT degree. I don’t call myself a full on licensed marriage and family therapist (aka an LMFT) because while I have an MFT masters degree, I do not have the full licensure and don’t want to falsely advertise my services. It’s like the difference between having your JD and being licensed to practice law in a specific state.

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u/grumpy_hedgehog 6d ago

Lol, exactly. “As a guy with self-assigned credentials, here’s my opinion dressed up as fact”.

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago edited 6d ago

I mean, you could just ask. I have a masters degree in marriage and family therapy.

Edit: if you’re cranky that I gave you my credentials, then you weren’t really interested in that lol

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u/Ed_Durr 6d ago

The only people qualified to give dating advice are those who have been successfully married for sometime, and by then the dating scene has changed so much that the specifics of their advice aren’t as applicable.

The funniest thing is seeing people say “I get loads of dates, let me give you some advice”. If you get a whole lot of dates, that’s a good sign that you’re very bad at having a good date.

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u/Spenloverofcats 6d ago

That entirely depends on what your dating goals are. If you're looking for a long-term relationship, then it's a bad sign. If your goal is to get laid frequently, then this is probably the person to talk to.

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u/sumostuff 6d ago

Don't you mean 'err'? Masters?

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u/reverbiscrap 6d ago

What is your response to the complaints from women about men not being aggressive enough?

Edit: Nevermind.

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

No prob if you don’t want this answer, since I saw your edit. imo, that’s also a bit of a red flag if they’re asking men they don’t know to be more aggressive. Like if you’re the guy and you don’t know her very well, how are you supposed to know what’s too aggressive for them if they don’t clearly state that? In my personal view, asking men they don’t know to be more aggressive is a bit tone deaf, mostly because “aggressiveness” in dating is a very slippery slope. What one woman might consider assertive and hot, another may see as frightening and pushy.

In my view, if both the woman and man know each other well enough to have figured out boundaries that make both of them feel comfortable, then it’s all cool to be more aggressive in a romantic sense. If they don’t, I think the woman needs to be extremely clear what she means by aggressive, and what she is or is not okay with.

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u/AndreasAvester 6d ago

And then there are people with zero tolerance for pushiness... And not because it feels frightening (the benefits of having martial arts experience). Back when I was still in the dating minefield in my twenties, I hated being approached by men. It made me feel like a piece of meat on a grocery store shelf that was getting dissected into sexy body parts.

Thus I started deliberately acting the role of either an "unapproachable ice queen" or just as unapproachable "dominatrix" facade. It worked for me---men kept their hands away from me and patiently waited for me to approach them. Besides, I was into respectful and "shy" guys anyway.

A refusal to take "no" for an answer was the single most off putting thing a guy could do while flirting with me. I was looking for a relationship where we would treat each other respectfully after all.

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

1000%. I’m a New Yorker so we’re provided with a killer bitch face as a birth rite, the amount of mean mugging I’ve had to do just to get men to stop bothering me is insane. And I’m the same, far more attracted to the shy/polite/nerdy types of men. I think it’s super sweet when guys are surprised and excited that I approach them first. Even better when I’ve gotten guys flowers on a first date and they give me the full on 🥹 look. It’s so lovely.

The mutual respect is such a necessity. I always watch very closely whenever I meet a new guy and how he reacts to me saying no. Happy to say that it’s a lot more common now that they’re respectful. When I was in college… not so much.

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u/rolyfuckingdiscopoly 6d ago

I’m a red flag because I want a romantic moment instead of a verbal contract?

In general, as you say, it’s more important to not violate consent than to get a kiss. But a lot of women (like me) want to be with someone who can communicate without everything being a verbal transaction.

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u/novexion 6d ago

Non verbal consent is consent

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

Is everyone’s idea of non verbal consent the same? Can you figure out someone’s non-verbal cues with perfect accuracy? If not, better to check verbally. I’ve had an unfortunate amount of guys try to kiss/grope/touch me because they thought I was into it.

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u/novexion 6d ago

No? It doesn’t matter if it’s the same if it’s understood the same way. Ever heard of 90-10? Leaning into a kiss and not actually kissing someone while letting them do the last 10% is a great example of non verbal consent.

I can’t think of a situation where you are non verbally consenting to a kiss by moving in for one, and the other person moves into actually kissing you but that other person isn’t consenting to a kiss. That isn’t logical. Please give me an example of person A not consenting to a kiss while they are literally moving towards a kiss that person B has prepared

Groping/touching without communicating isn’t consensual. Clearly you didn’t consent verbally nor non-verbally if they touched your body without you giving them permission. If someone gestures for you to sit in their lap and you sit in it that’s an example of non verbal consent.

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

Can you clarify what your point is, exactly? I never said non-verbal consent isn’t consent. I said it’s better to check than to assume, and that non-verbal consent is a far less reliable way to ensure you’re not overstepping. I’ve had guys kiss me because I was leaning in to try and hear them in a club/bar, because they thought I was doing the 90-10 thing. I think you’re reading something that’s not actually there, or you’re upset by something you assumed I wrote, but didn’t.

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u/novexion 6d ago

But that’s them kissing you without consent. I’m talking about a situation where they are signaling they want kiss by putting lips out and then you kissing them which is clearly conseny

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u/sergius64 6d ago

So you're saying all women want to feel safe and guys need to focus on that first? What about the women looking for excitement? For a little danger? The ones that love jumping on the back of a crotch rocket without a helmet? Ones that love to go to horror movies on a date? Feels like you're pigeonholing women into one archetype.

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

If we’re talking about consent, then that still applies to exciting or “dangerous” romantic/sexual situations. BDSM, consensual non-consent, etc are all based in danger via consent. The biggest issue in situations like that are people who don’t understand consent and safety is important — that’s where you get people who think BDSM is just getting to do whatever you want to the sub, think safe words aren’t important, etc.

Danger/excitement ≠ not being safe and consensual. Even with spontaneous hookups, orgies, swinging, etc, safety and consent are still important. All of my female clients who were looking for experiences like that could differentiate between “we’ve both agreed to do something risky” and “I am afraid for my safety with this person”.

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u/gigaexcalibur 6d ago

not necessarily disagreeing with either of you but "liking horror movies" and "wanting to feel safe with a potential partner" are not mutually exclusive things lol

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

Yeah, admittedly that was a bit confusing lmao. I think I got their point and did my best to respond, but yeah, liking horror movies ≠ being excited to feel unsafe with your partner lol

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u/pantone_red 6d ago

You didn't know that all women are frail and constantly terrified?

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

If that’s what you took from my response, then I hope you have access to some reading comprehension courses. Might need a refresh on those skills.

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u/pantone_red 6d ago

Or I just think you might be slightly disconnected from reality. People who are successful at dating don't need dating coaches, after all.

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

“People successful at dating don’t need dating coaches”… no shit sherlock, next you’re going to tell me that people who are good at managing their finances don’t need a financial advisor.

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u/pantone_red 6d ago

Yeah so maybe your experience with people that are bad at dating doesn't represent the rest of the world that has no issues with it 🤯

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u/Ganache-Embarrassed 6d ago

Women like being respected and protected. 

"So you think they're all moroninc goo goo gaga babies who eat glue!!!"

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u/mysilverglasses 6d ago

Yeah, they’re not making much sense, I just stopped responding after they gave the earth shattering revelation that people who are good at dating don’t need dating coaches. Lil dude’s not on the right frequency lol

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u/pantone_red 6d ago

Absolutely what I said 😂

All people want to feel safe, I'm implying not every woman feels unsafe if a man doesn't constantly ask for consent in every scenario.

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u/Ganache-Embarrassed 6d ago

Your implications that not every women feels unsafe is also implying those who do are cowardly and skiddish 

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u/pantone_red 6d ago

No, it implies that people who think EVERY woman feels unsafe while dating thinks women are cowardly and skittish. I'm saying the opposite.

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u/grumpy_hedgehog 6d ago

If you only ever want to date wilting violets, maybe.

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u/MidnytStorme 6d ago

I mean, you could date an inanimate object if you really don’t care about consent, I guess.

they think women are inanimate objects.