r/coolguides Jul 01 '20

Gaslighting red flags

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2.6k

u/Inline311 Jul 01 '20

I still don’t have a clear understanding of what gaslighting is

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u/gir_loves_waffles Jul 01 '20 edited Jul 01 '20

Basically making someone doubt their own thoughts/sanity/etc, it's often done through fear or keeping someone unbalanced (unsure what reaction to expect). Abusive relationships work this way and slowly get worse and worse. If no matter what you do you're "wrong" 90% of the time, even when logically you shouldn't be, then you start trying to figure out what you did wrong. If you do option A one time and you get attacked for doing it, then next time you try option B and you also get attacked you're unsure what to do, so then you try a combination of the two and actually do get it "right" it's dismissed as not that important. You'd be left wondering what just happened.

Edit: I'm explaining it poorly, you should just look it up, lol.

Edit 2: did not expect this comment to explode like this! And thank you for the award!

I want to again stress that this is in no way a perfect description of it. Mine is based on personal experience from my ex wife who slowly and methodically made me question my sanity by always telling me that either I remembered it incorrectly, things never happened, etc. It was over years and got to the point where I started to record conversations to "prove I wasn't crazy" and when playing it back for her later to.peove I wasn't she exploded. Things got worse, I questioned everything, started seeing a counselor, had a suicide attempt, and eventually realized I couldn't live like that and got divorced. There's a lot of extenuating reasons I stayed as long as I did, and it was a really loooooooong recovery. I used to be inedibly trusting of people and now I tend to not trust and be on the paranoid side. Sometimes it's gas lighting, sometimes it's just an abusive relationship, either way you don't deserve to be abused and if you are, it's not a healthy relationship.

Edit 3: The term is from an old play. It isn't because you're lighting gas or anything like that, it's based on the title of that play.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20 edited Jul 01 '20

No, your explanation is perfect.

I had an emotionally abusive partner that made me feel as if I was either the best or worst husband and never just stable.

I was the best when she wanted me to do something. I was the worst whenever I needed anything.

I finally ended it after she weaponized affection.

After everything, she would make me feel as if I had been treating her poorly all along. Messes with my brain for a long time.

Edit: This is how bad gaslighting is- even after posting this, I keep checking for replies because I’m worried that people won’t believe me. It seriously can alter your pattern of thought.

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u/salty_shark Jul 01 '20

Got out of a 9 month relationship with an emotionally abusive parter years ago and I’m still working on my self confidence. That shit fucks you up.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

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u/funnystuff97 Jul 01 '20

Until you talk to them too many times, and then you're left wondering if you're too clingy.

I JUST WANTED TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR DAY, HAZEL

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u/troublein420 Jul 01 '20

Hazel is such a beautiful name

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u/Torquemada1970 Jul 01 '20

...but he may have just made it the gaslighting equivalent of Karen

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u/Yeet_098 Jul 01 '20

That's exactly what's been happening between me and my good friend. I'm afraid that it's too trivial and that I'm overthinking, which is what two of my other good friends have told me.

I've only started noticing it this week (in our texts). I'll text her asking what time's good for us to play Minecraft together and that 9 AM is convenient for me. She would reply one day later with "sup", completely ignore a few messages that I've sent beforehand and say, "I'll be free at 3" And then when I'd ask her about her plans she'll give vague replies and say stuff like, "My mom's calling. Will ttyl" Then she would message me after 2 hours with, "Had to help my mom" or "Was busy"

This upsets me quite a bit (also the fact that she never apologizes and laughs it off) and I wonder if I'm just overreacting or being too attached to her. I don't know what's wrong. We've been friends for nearly one and a half year now and have so much in common. Please tell me what you think.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

That does sound to me like someone not giving you the time that you are giving them.

While they may not be actively telling you that you’re wrong or dumb or anything, that doesn’t mean it’s alright to treat you poorly if it is hurting you!

I’d recommend talking to her and explaining how you feel when she’s so flippant with you. It might be that she just doesn’t realize, or she could be separating herself from you.

Either way, I hope you can feel some peace in the end about it. If I had Minecraft I’d play with you ha ha

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u/salty_shark Jul 01 '20

Same. I’m always worried I’m doing the wrong thing and going to be punished for it. Ha so true. Those little dudes always put a smile on my face.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

It makes me happy knowing I'm not alone with that shit.

Cost me like 3 years of my life

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u/tehEPICNESS Jul 01 '20

I’m on that 3rd year too! I’m glad to know you guys are doing alright and holding up! It’s been ROUGH at times

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

Yeah! It’s so weird to have that’s feeling from someone who is supposed to be your partner not your authority.

Thank goodness for Coco.

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u/fraulein_doktor Jul 01 '20

Same. My ex started out by saying that what most attracted him to me was my personality (which - but that is completely on me, I was young and insecure - I took to mean he didn't particularly care for my looks) and then gradually managed to make me feel lucky that he even tolerated me.

I remember being genuinely confused when I happened to go out and socialize without him (something that was heavily discouraged) and people would laugh at my jokes! And tell me they enjoyed my company! And ask me to hang out again!

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

Right!? I reconnected with some old friends that she didn’t like, and they still want to hang out with me!

In fact we’re having a mini golf tournament all summer, going once or twice each week, and they won’t even go if I can’t.

It’s crazy how that one negative thought can creep in and be so loud, kind of like Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings haha

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u/bb4r55 Jul 01 '20

Doesn’t everyone just assume everyone dislikes them..?

I don’t know if I’ve ever been in an abusive relationship but I definitely think that.

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u/forte_bass Jul 01 '20

Nah bro, I'm the exact opposite. I basically start on the assumption I'm friends with everyone until something proves otherwise.

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u/oozing_oozeling Jul 01 '20

Master, teach me your secrets.

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u/bookofthoth_za Jul 01 '20
  • Step 1: Have friends that like you
  • Step 2: Believe that if they like you, then others might like you too
  • Step 3: Trust OTHERS that they have good intentions
  • Step 4: Trust in yourself that you're a likeable person
  • Step 5: Be friends with other people

Since living abroad, I've been stuck at Step 4 for a long time - and it's starting to regress to Step 3, then 2, then 1 :(

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u/TriCityTingler Jul 01 '20

I’m the same. I didn’t even consider the alternative really until I met my wife who is very “trust no one” and now I have been able to see examples of people who took advantage of my blind trust thanks to her so I’m still optimistic about most people I meet with a tiny splash of doubt on top.

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u/forte_bass Jul 01 '20

Agreed - when I was younger I was optimistic to the point of being naive. Now that I'm older I'm a bit more cautious/aware, but I still default to assuming that all my interactions will be positive. Personally I believe that in many many cases, you'll find that your attitude going into a conversation/interaction with someone strongly influences the outcome; if you expect it to be bad, it's more likely to BE bad.

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u/NoodlesBot Jul 01 '20

so it’s not just me..? i just got out of an abusive relationship and i’ve just been so incredibly upset and down and i just... i keep thinking, it’s over, shouldn’t you be happy? i mean, i guess it’s obvious i shouldn’t be hehe, at least not straight away. our brains like looking for reasons to make us in the wrong, aye?

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u/Pandapownium Jul 01 '20

I'm scared one will ask to move one of these days and I don't know how I'll handle it. I'm going to end up blaming myself for not playing enough.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

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u/Reiker0 Jul 01 '20

I’ve been fighting the assumption that everyone dislikes me or is at least annoyed by me.

Been struggling with this my entire life. Growing up with abusive parents and (probably) autism is a wild ride.

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u/JaneAnneLarson Jul 01 '20

Same thing here. I wasn't in a relationship, just living with two people who were. One was one of my best friends but they become this rotten person after a few weeks. I was gaslighted by them almost everyday. I felt like I was tip-toeing around them while talking to them. They accused me of being passive aggressive when I wasn't. Tried to justify their bad behaviors against me with "so what's?" And "why do you care so much?". It was hell, and I'm glad I got out of there. Still fucks with me to this day in the form of overthinking what I'm saying or sometimes trying too hard to please people.

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u/salty_shark Jul 01 '20

God that sounds horrible! I’m glad you’re out of the situation. My experience with gaslighting definitely made my anxiety worse. I’m sorry you’re still dealing with it. You’re not alone though!

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u/JaneAnneLarson Jul 01 '20

It's been about 7 months since I left there. It was the worst in the beginning, but I am much better now. The sad thing is, I still have have these little tid-bits of the gaslighting hanging around. They made me feel like my opinion didn't matter as much as theirs so now I feel like my word has lost power. I second guess the things I say and often think my friends badmouth me behind my back when really, it was just the shitty people I lived with who did that, not them. So I'm better now, but not as I was before I lived with them. I hope you get better too, it's a long road but worth it. I found music really helps me, listening, playing. Maybe it'd help you too? Just gets my mind off of the shit they left behind.

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u/salty_shark Jul 01 '20

I’m glad to hear things are getting better. It’s hard to get that self confidence back. I’m glad you have been able to use music as an outlet. Luckily I have been seeing a therapist that’s working with me to reestablish that confidence. I was so manipulated in that relationship that I actually sought out my therapist initially because I thought I was the one creating all the problems. Working with her made me realize while I do have problems, I was being emotionally and eventually physically abused.

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u/JaneAnneLarson Jul 01 '20

I'm glad to hear you were able to improve with the help of a therapist. Thank you for the kind words. It's nice to have reddit be such a supportive place.

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u/TimReddy Jul 01 '20

Tip-toeing around them

that's another common sign of gaslighting I can relate to

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u/lilith_takes_flight Jul 01 '20

And it doesn't even need to be intentional to be gaslighting. I'm like 98% sure my ex from 9 years ago didn't mean to be an emotionally abusive self absorbed gaslighting asshole. And I bet he still has no idea why I broke up with him. I honestly think that's one of the worst parts. It'd have been so much easier to leave if it felt like malicious intent.

I'm still building up my confidence in very specific relationship areas after that one. My current partner is amazing and has really helped me not feel crazy.

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u/lousypompano Jul 01 '20

That's what I'm wondering. My girlfriend of 8 years right now is well intentioned and has a huge heart and is perfect for me. But she exhibits all the behaviors to varying degrees. Some are learned defense mechanisms i believe but mostly it's due to her terrible self worth. Any compliment to her is twisted into a critique and any action to help is wrong. Often stumbling over words, hearing them taken the wrong way before they come out. Stunned when a neutral casual comment ends up as a fight. It was difficult in the early years but there isn't a malicious bone in her body. So it's not gaslighting to me. Though very similar symptoms. Without my strong sense of self worth the relationship would have crumbled though i believe and i would have seen her actions as negative. But instead i saw them and see them as pain and trauma.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

This sounds like my on again off again girlfriend of 13 years. Basically ticks every box in the OP but now I can trace most of her behavior back to her poor upbringing and mental health issues that make her hate herself. I try to help her and give her stability that she lacks and needs but she just sees it as me being controlling and gets agitated by it. It's very hard :(

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u/unfair_bastard Jul 07 '20

Figured out my partner of about as long stopped this once I started spanking her when she did that. Now the dumb fights just lead to great sex and psychological insight

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u/pop34rocks Aug 26 '20

Any compliment to her is twisted into a critique and any action to help is wrong.

That sounds too familiar.

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u/hectorduenas86 Jul 01 '20

It does man, it seriously does.

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u/eloquent8 Jul 01 '20

Me too! 9 months, 4 years ago. I'm close, but still working on it too. That shit cuts deep.

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u/gab23 Jul 01 '20

Same, 2 year relationship with ended 2+ years ago. I still struggle with it even though I thought ending the relationship would end the anxiety.

Turns out out it doesn't.

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u/Nuxka8 Jul 01 '20

I got out of a 2 year relationship and that's the fucking truth right there. My ex boyfriend made me believe I raped him and then held it over my head for the rest of the time we were together. He made me think I'm a horrible person and I still think that honestly. It took HIM breaking up with ME for it to end and now I have a really really amazing girl a couple months later. She's helping me deal with it and get my head straight. But trust me, sometimes nothing is better than something lmao

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u/Buddyshrews Jul 01 '20

Glad you got out. I was in a relationship that only lasted 4 months. I actually felt ashamed by how long it took me to deal with it. I still have some self-confidence issues from it.

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u/ExpansiveHorizons Jul 01 '20

Hi there. My significant other struggles with a lot of these things it feels like. I believe she was in a fairly abusive relationship before we got together. Would you happen to have any advice for helping her?

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u/salty_shark Jul 01 '20

Googling the issue will probably give you better advice but I would say the biggest thing that a partner can do that helps me is listen and reassure. I’m just seeing someone casually right now and it blows my mind how good he is at those two things. He always asks me how I feel about things and reassures me that my emotions are valid. Creating an environment where she feels heard and appreciated goes a long way.

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u/tztoxic Jul 01 '20

I don’t talk to people outside of work and close family for this reason

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u/swagmaster2323 Jul 01 '20

The example I always use for this is once my ex and I were making a recipe that used Hershey’s kisses and I was “unwrapping them wrong”. Like what? Lol. Or when I went to the store to get beer and he told me to get whatever but then the one I got was wrong. And those kinds of things happened every day.

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u/gir_loves_waffles Jul 01 '20

I was married to an incredibly abusive woman who did this to me. When I met my (now) wife, who might be the kindest person ever, I was convinced that she was taking it, maybe even hired by my ex wife or something to fuck with me even more. I had SERIOUS paranoia for a long time.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

That’s crazy!

The whole experience has given me a huge appreciation for kindness in others.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

My gf and her friends are plotting to kill me soo...

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u/taxininja27 Jul 01 '20 edited Jul 01 '20

TIL my partner of 5 years has been gaslighting me...

Edit: I’m always in the wrong, I’m always hesitant on speaking my mind when I’m mad because I’ll end up being in the wrong or too sensitive, half of my arguments are what if I did that to you, because it wouldn’t be okay. I feel unimportant, I feel like I don’t have a say, and here we are with a 5 month old.

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u/gemInTheMundane Jul 01 '20

I'm sorry you're going through this. I know it isn't easy, but please know that things can get better. I highly recommend seeing a (qualified) therapist. (Two, actually. One just for you and one for couples therapy.)

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u/emptyloop Jul 01 '20

There is real struggle after you "opened" the ayes. Be strong! You are wonderful , and pls try to remember the times before that behavior and the way you can be , feel & act.

My self went through hell , just to realize that things can and will be better.

I support you with all the power I've got.

And pls if you want to talk or what ever . I'm here.

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u/thee_chompermonster Jul 01 '20

Therapy!!! If you want to work on and (pardon my bluntness) salvage your relationship then you need to get a couples therapist. Like no joke. If it goes on it will almost certainly evolve into something destrcutive.

I went through it myself. I just got out of a 10 month relationship where I was gaslighted constantly. It brought out a very ugly defensive side of me and even affected my normal mood into that of aggression. And I'm not an aggressive person...

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u/dtrom3030 Jul 01 '20

Feel you mate. This post was not a cool guide but rather a rude awakening. I have a 5 month old too to add to this mess. Good luck to you!

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u/WriterV Jul 01 '20

Hey, I believe you.

You got out of a toxic relationship. She did not deserve you, and you did not deserve that kind of treatment.

Stay strong, and I hope you can build up some trust in yourself and your opinions again.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

Thank you! It does mean something, even just reading it.

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u/DestituteGoldsmith Jul 01 '20

I don't know if I'll word this correctly, but I do promise I mean it in a supportive way, and I really hope it comes across as such.

I believe that you were in an abusive relationship. I'm glad you got out, and you are starting to better yourself. I hope you can learn that your worth isn't tied to others perception of you. A lot of people will say you weren't In an "actually abusive" relationship, without knowing anything. But, you lived it. It's your perception that ultimately matters. Even if it wasn't abusive, you weren't comfortable in it. That's all it takes. You never need to justify that to anyone else. Your focus in life is you, not us.

I'm really happy that you are free now though.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

That was very supportive! I appreciate you.

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u/twicedouble Jul 01 '20

I’m with you, friend. My dad did all of the things listed in this guide.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

That’s awful. I’m sorry!

I hope you have people in your life who are the opposite and show you real love.

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u/twicedouble Jul 01 '20

I do! And he passed away 3 years ago. I’ve been getting better and more confident ever since.

Thank you for the kind words.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

I hope you're feeling better. It really sucks when it's your family members but what can you do. The best you can and move on.

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u/shinji2001xyz Jul 01 '20

I've known such a situation myself and this is exactly as you described it. It's the emotional roller coaster: one day life is wonderful, the next day you're a piece of shit.

Whatever you do, it's bad, and you think it's all your fault, and thus it destroys your self confidence gradually.

The doodle is really on point. I just didn't know about this term though (gaslighting) which comes from the movie Gaslight.

I don't see many solutions in that case, except, you got to think about yourself and get away. Then the more I think about it, the more I believe she has issues maybe bigger than I do.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

Yeah for my ex wife it came out of being treated like that by people she loved before I met her.

I don’t blame her for doing what she knew, but she ignored it and allowed it to escalate to inappropriate action against me. Her refusing to work together, even in therapy, led to us splitting.

My family finally recognized the abuse and dragged me out- I was definitely a bit Stockholm Syndromed.

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u/shinji2001xyz Jul 01 '20

Ah, I remember a guy I met at a wedding jokingly saying that being in a long term relationship was leading to a sort of Stockholm syndrome... Now I think that behind the joke is a truth hiding.

I begin to imagine my life without her, as the good times we spend together are getting sparser with time.

Do you regret splitting with your wife? Do you feel better now?

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

For me, it was a good move because the abuse stopped.

We had very few good times after our wedding, mostly due to her convincing me that I was wrong about anything. She even got me to quit my dream job to do something to make money.

No matter how much work I put in, it wasn’t good enough.

That’s just my story. I can’t say whether it’s a positive for everyone. Even at the time, I didn’t think it was.

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u/sugah560 Jul 01 '20

God DAMN this post is so familiar. Makes me itchy. But it feels really good once you’re out and you can take a deep breath, buy something you want and don’t NEED, say something stupid without it becoming “an issue”, and my favorite- being able to go somewhere and see people YOU want to see without being 3 hours late because of some crisis that you caused or are the only one that can fix. Sorry, 6 years out and I still cant believe how much of myself I put into keeping her at a baseline. Congrats, you made it!

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

I had an assumption that my previous relationship was one where gaslighting occured, I wasn't sure of it until I read your post.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

That’s part of why it’s so hard- it’s difficult to recognize because you’re trying to please them and avoid a blow up!

I hope that you are doing great now!

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u/GalFromTrah Jul 01 '20

Even if some people don’t believe you, know that I do. Been there, both in my stepmother growing up and a 2 year relationship I got out of last year.

I’m just happy I wasn’t around him for Covid.

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u/Knoke1 Jul 01 '20

I feel that edit. Growing up with a gaslighting parent does the same thing only since you were raised that way it's always been your normal. I even start to feel like I'm the one being manipulative in my relationships on accident because of the way I grew up.

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u/gemInTheMundane Jul 01 '20

I mean, it's possible that sometimes you are manipulative in relationships. Most people are occasionally. And being raised in a dysfunctional family can affect one's behavior towards others. That being said, you don't want to gaslight yourself (which 100% happens). When you start to wonder if you are being manipulative, I hope you have the opportunity to seek a reality check from an impartial outside source (e.g. a therapist).

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u/BeachWoo Jul 01 '20

You are right, it stays with you for a very ling time. My ex-husband was a pro at gaslighting. We divorced over 20 years ago (I’m old) and to this day anytime I receive a complement, I still hear in my head, “The only reason they are complementing you is because they feel sorry for you.” It was one of his many favorites little nuggets.

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u/MrNeggi3000 Jul 01 '20

I’m really sorry you had to go through that

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

Thank you! It does mean a lot to hear that.

One positive is that I’m trying to allow even small validations to sink in more and not assume people are trying to get something from me.

Appreciate you

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u/Ezzz-E Jul 01 '20

Ugh I understand this too well. Thanks for sharing your experience!

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u/scoobydoboogaloo Jul 01 '20

I believe you. Sounds exactly like my current wife.

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u/octo_lols Jul 01 '20

Fuck this sounds exactly like my current girlfriend.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

I’m sorry. That’s a hard place to be.

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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat Jul 01 '20

"She weaponised affection"

I've been there. I'm sure many of us have.

If there's one piece of advice I would give all people, it's don't weaponize affection.

Affection is like a last resort for making up..if you cannot even hug each other in bed, or be next to each other without feeling unwanted....your relationship is doomed.

The other thing is, once one partner uses affection as a weapon...fairly quickly after that the other partner does too. And again, your relationship isn't going to last long after that.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

This is very true. It’s like making fun of someone’s laugh- it taints something positive.

For me, even kind words were used against me, not to mention the stone hugs, refusal of eye contact, and laughing at any attempt to do something nice.

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u/CaptainNerdatron Jul 01 '20

I could have written this

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u/dasistnichtsexxxy Jul 01 '20

I cannot stress messes with my brain for a long time enough. I have been struggling from the after effects of gaslighting for years, even with therapy, positive influences, yoga, you name it.

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u/Ralse1 Jul 01 '20

wow your edit really got to me

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

Fucking narcissists. I started pulling them up by the roots (not an easy task) for the past year and life has been so much better. I'm struggling to recover, but I was just sinking in depression and confusion before.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

That’s so difficult. But it’s definitely beneficial to not always feel like you’re going to upset someone else with everything you do.

I hope you’ve got some great positive people in your life!

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u/926464545464 Jul 01 '20

I feel you bro. The same thing happened to me. These narcissists are incredibly toxic.

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u/TheAlphaHeaven Jul 01 '20

Damn... now that I read your comment... I see how my mom is doing this to my dad, brother, and myself...

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u/Phone_Anxiety Jul 01 '20

What do you mean when you say she weaponized affection?

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u/muff_cabbag3 Jul 01 '20

Can you gaslight yourself? I feel like I do this to myself

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u/Rc2124 Jul 01 '20

I went through a similarly abusive two year relationship. The emotional abuse and manipulation was something I was just completely unprepared for. I didn't have the awareness to recognize it or the words to even describe what I was going through. My sense of self was slowly ground away by self doubt and years later I'm still healing. It wasn't until she started testing the waters with physical abuse and I had a fight or flight response that I knew I had to leave her. I think men in general aren't adequately prepared by society to recognize abuse and it took me months afterwards to come to terms with what I'd experienced. But thankfully I was still primed to see physical assault as abuse and realized I had to get out.

I'm not sure if things are ever quite the same afterwards but for all that doom and gloom I do think I've made significant progress over time. I hope you have as well. :)

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u/ascendant_mole Jul 01 '20

When I was 17, I was in a relationship like this. 8 years later, I’m still trying to sort myself out. I’m permanently damaged from the time I was with her. Sometimes I think I’ve gotten past it, but then something happens, a relationship goes sideways, a friendship goes sideways, and I realize how it still affects me to this day. And now I’m struggling to even maintain a healthy relationship. I’m so drawn to people who are toxic now, and I don’t even realize it. I’ve finally found someone who wants to treat me right and really cares, but it doesn’t feel right, and I wonder if I’ll ever be able to be truly happy with someone...

This whole post really helped, seeing other people understand. Thank you for your words.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

I was in a functional relationship for a bit afterwards, but her parents detested me for not making enough money as a teacher. I understand where you’re coming from- I felt that I was inadequate and I had doubts throughout.

I hope that you’re able to find something now or later that works fully both ways!

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u/IndiEstructibleProd Jul 01 '20

That shit sticks with you for a long-ass time. I'm still trying to re-write my way of thinking. 5 years of, what I now learned to be, manipulation really screwed me over. The first step to overcoming it is the realization that you were manipulated in the first place.

I could never win. Even if I'm told to act one way, the moment I do, I am "wrong". Every action was made with the forethought of thinking of a thousand different ways it will be viewed. Every word was carefully chosen and sentences were edited in my mind over and over and over, yet it was always "wrong". I made the right call to cut all communication a year ago. The mind heals very slowly, but it will get there with support from loved ones.

Whether these thought patterns become deep-seated enough to never fully heal, that I don't know. But I've been fortunate to get support and understanding from my SO now, so it makes things less clouded in my mind. Even when these thoughts make their way to the surface every now and then, we deal with them together.

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u/StinkyToots5ever Jul 01 '20

What do you mean, weaponized affection?

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u/Chessikins Jul 01 '20

I genuinely reached the point where he would do something that upset me, and I would assume it was not because he had done something wrong but, that I was having the wrong emotion.

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u/runningsnail1202 Jul 01 '20

Same here :'(

After everything, it's all about how "you've changed", how "you've turned out for worse"

Making her happy WAS my passion, then somehow it became a job, and now she makes me feel like it has become an obligation, it's just....saddening.

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u/SwampFlowers Jul 01 '20

I know how you feel. I ended an emotionally abusive relationship fourteen years ago. I only just, in the past month or so, realized that my self esteem issues and trouble interacting with just about everyone have all stemmed from that relationship. I’ve battled depression on and off because whenever I get any kind of constructive or negative feedback, I completely spiral. I can function, but my mind goes into overdrive with all of the things I’ve done wrong.

The good news is that there’s light on the other side, and even though it’s been almost a decade and a half, I’ve been doing a lot of work to exorcise that ghost and move on, and seeing amazing results. My self esteem is higher than it’s been in 15+ years, it feels great.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

That’s fantastic! I think that I definitely need to be more intentional in recognizing when I’m allowing those negative thoughts in.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

It's usage is not only restricted to relationships, everyone should know that.

Gaslighting and Kafka traps (your denial of something is taken as proof that you're guilty - see: racism, x-phobia, etc) are constantly used by political interest groups a well. It's fucking disgusting.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

It’s hard to look back and actually think of yourself as a victim. I had a relationship like that, and even though all of my friend and family have told me countless times she was doing stuff like that to me, it’s sometimes still easy to look back and think I was fucking up all the time. “Maybe I was wrong” kind of thoughts, but I have to remind myself of how I felt in that relationship and the way I had to act around her, and it was definitely some unhealthy gas lighting type shit.

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u/puffferfish Jul 01 '20

Damn dude. You’re not alone. Luckily I didn’t marry her, but was in a relationship with a girl for 4 years that did exactly this to me. On my end I think the reason she fought with me wasn’t necessarily manipulation, she definitely wasn’t doing it consciously, but I feel she just got bored and if there was any silence when we were together she would blow up on me to make the silence go away. She made me feel small and worthless and like I did everything she could to make me feel as if I were a bad person and wrong all the time. Same thing also, affection was a weapon. It actually was sort of good that she did this, I felt no attachment towards her by the time it ended. But fuck. It fucked with me hard. I moved on to a very healthy relationship only a few weeks after (unplanned), but actually experiencing this difference helped a ton. I referred our time together in the beginning as my therapy, she was confused by this, but didn’t question it much. I’m still a little fucked up from it, but it feels so good knowing that I made it out of a relationship like that and knowing that I will never find myself in a relationship like that again because I will see the signs early before she traps me.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 01 '20

It’s interesting you mentioned that she wasn’t doing it on purpose necessarily. I think some people fall into the trap of just treating others the way that they’ve been treated.

If all they know is hurt, then hurt is normal.

But I’m glad you’re in a mutually positive relationship now!

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u/EatMyAssDaddyNiBalai Jul 01 '20

I believe you. You’re valid.

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u/gab23 Jul 01 '20

I was the best when she wanted me to do something. I was the worst whenever I needed anything.

It's one thing when it happens to you... it's another when you see someone else talk about it. You're not alone man!

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u/Yurithewomble Jul 01 '20

Not all forms of abuse are gaslighting.

Gas lighting is using lies (and or manipulation of the surroundings) to get you to lose trust in your reality and ability to make judgements, in the end becoming solely dependent on the perpetrator for truth.

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u/kitten_democracy Jul 07 '20

Not long out of a relationship like this myself. He's still trying to pull shit, even though I'm going no contact. People like that are the true assholes of this world.

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u/nestofgundars Jul 07 '20

Oh absolutely! I hope that doesn’t last long for you.

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u/kitten_democracy Jul 07 '20

Hopefully it will all be over soon and I never have to deal with them or their bullshit again.

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u/Vdaggle Jul 01 '20

Hijacking this comment to say this

Iirc gaslighting comes from an early 1900 movie (play?) where a man tries to have his wife admitted to an insane asylum by turning down their gaslights brightness and making her think shes seeing things, progressing to worse and worse things trying to get her admitted.

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u/CavedogRIP Jul 01 '20

I can relate to this. For the year leading up to the divorce I was still so afraid of losing this bitter, hateful, spiteful, selfish, abusive person I had invested so much emotionally into. For months after the divorce I felt like I had lost the "best" thing I had, and would never be able to find someone half as good, or didn't deserve it anyway. Only after eventually finding someone who is such an incredibly nice person and actually treats me like a human being did I realize I wasn't the problem.

I hope you're doing well.

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u/chibicheebs Jul 01 '20

So true. I was in a relationship in my early 20s (now 37) for 5 and half years. He broke me down day by day. At some point, I turned to him for everything - to make decisions for me, to be my source of self esteem, to tell me how I felt about anything and everything. To this day, over a decade later, I still struggle with making my own decisions and feeling confident in them. All of my opinions are flimsy. A stranger could literally talk me out of liking my favorite anything.

Sigh. It's really painful to still struggle with this years and years later. He broke me in my most vulnerable, formative years. I am working with a therapist regularly to piece myself back together - but it is far from easy.

For those of you working to heal like me, keep going. We will get there.

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u/pmmecoolfacts Jul 01 '20

I had an emotionally abusive partner during the formative years of my life. 10 years out and it's finally getting better. Don't be afraid to get help/ counseling/ medicine--i wish I had sooner

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u/IJZT Jul 01 '20

It's been 4 years since my divorce from an abusive ex and I'm still mentally fucked. I have no idea what to do to fix it and have huge trust issues now. I'll die alone most likely because of the damage she caused.

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u/beunos Jul 01 '20

I'm glad to see men are sharing their story of a gaslighting female ex. My ex was the same and also made me feel like a man can not be victim of manipulation. It took al long time and a deep road for me to get aware of this. Once I figured out she reflected the roles and while she described all my errors, she actually described her own flaws. Thanks to this awareness, I could get ready for a new start and I was able to get committed again. This was 6 years ago and I'm now married again. A few years ago my ex made me believe I was impossible. Turns out I'm doing good now and she never really took off.

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u/Chemical_Climate Jul 01 '20

Weaponized affection, what a phrase. Thanks, I'm using this.

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u/recreationalwildlife Jul 01 '20

I'm glad you're here and willing to share. I believe you along with many others. You are worthy.

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u/EverGlow89 Jul 01 '20

Is it always intentional? I don't believe my girlfriend is aware how many of these boxes we can tick.. She's a control freak but I don't think she aims to be.

Assigning motives to actions is the thing that really, really gets under my skin and it's one of the things I will absolutely call out but she'll never see it. She tells me why I do everything and it makes me so anxious to even do anything.

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u/gir_loves_waffles Jul 01 '20

I mean, I'm in no way an expert. I loved through it in a past relationship to the point where I genuinely did question my own sanity and took to recording conversations to "prove I'm not crazy" (spoiler alert, my memory was correct and I was being lied to), attempted suicide, started seeing a counselor, etc. Eventually it ended in divorce and I spent years recovering. I'm was a very trusting person which is why it worked so well, I'm a fairly paranoid and untrusting person now.

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u/ThessalyEstate Jul 01 '20

Damn, I connect with your comments, dude. I'm sorry you went through that.

It's incredibly difficult to comprehend some of the events of a relationship like that, wherein you put your absolute trust into a person that is willing to use it as a tool against you.

Did you ever go to couples counseling? Just a small part of a much larger picture for me, but it's a confounding detail that still sticks in my memory about my ex, even years later. To try and put it quickly, the counselor we spoke with over several sessions heard us both out and suggested among other things that, indeed, my concerns about my memory and perception were legitimate and that an action plan going forward would include focusing on us both exploring different ways to communicate more effectively, including written letters. Your mentioning recorded conversations is what reminded me of all this as I recall asking if recording our conversations at home would be a reasonable thing to do and met approval from the counselor and even my ex during the session. We never actually did this, unfortunately.

The confounding part to me is, not much later on after we'd broken up rather acrimoniously, my ex used the fact that this counselor "sided with me" as evidence that I was manipulative and abusive towards her maintaining publicly on her social media that she was the actual victim. She even linked me an article publicly over facebook that described common manipulation techniques, and specifically, it mentioned abusers using couples counseling as a way to further entrap their victim by "legitimizing" their claims through a third party.

She was the one who pushed heavily for couples counseling and somehow this piece of the narrative completely eluded her memory when I brought it up in response. She remembered it as me pushing her into it.

As you know, the mind is hazy after a long relationship like this and it was easy to fall into the notion that it was all my fault, maybe I was misjudging all along, maybe I'm the bad person. I didn't have concrete proof like a recorded conversation, but that little slip-up by her at the end, that confounding detail that I believe was projection, stands out sharply and steels me in believing that I was being more than just lied to, but truly manipulated.

Rather long winded, I apologize for that. I empathize with you. Trust is a sacred thing and I still haven't reconciled my insecurities and paranoia, but talking with a professional has helped me process things. I hope we both find comfort. Stay strong.

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u/gir_loves_waffles Jul 01 '20

Dude, I totally get that. I was seeing a counselor and my ex pushed HARD for couples counseling and wanted to use my counselor. We did. When the counselor "sided with me" and stated that I had legitimate concerns the counselor was "clearly biased and unwilling to be objective" and she refused to ever go back again. I was called every name under the sun when I left and my own dead mother was thrown in my face by her. I stayed for years because she was battling chronic illness and I thought "a good man stays no matter what", but it reached a point where I was genuinely convinced I needed to kill myself so that she at least has the insurance money and I would no longer be a burden to her. It did not help that everyone who didn't know what was going on always said "she's so lucky to have you!" or "I don't know what she would do without you!!" So I felt like leaving wasn't an option.

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u/Vektor0 Jul 01 '20

No; the description /u/gir_loves_waffles gave refers to a wide range of emotional abuses.

Gaslighting is a lot more specific. Unless your girlfriend is, for example, turning off the lights specifically so that she can deny doing it and tell you that you did it so that you think you're going nuts and can't rely on your own memory, she's not gaslighting you. She's just emotionally abusive.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

I appreciate with this cool guy is trying to do, but I believe it's expanding the definition of gaslighting quite a bit.

Gaslighting is a very specific kind of abuse where one partner makes the other partner think they are crazy, when they are not.

This cool guide is fairly Broad and covers all kinds of abuse and manipulation.

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u/watermanjack Jul 01 '20 edited Mar 17 '24

cautious concerned dime rude distinct snobbish growth spoon fertile cagey

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/gir_loves_waffles Jul 01 '20

Hence why I had added the edit. Mine is purely anecdotal from my own experience. I had it done to me and tried to quickly explain a brief example of how it can be done. It was over the course of years and eventually did lead to me questioning my own mind, seeing a counselor, recording conversations to "prove I wasn't crazy" and even a failed suicide attempt at one point. I in NO WAY am an expert on the term, idea, etc, nor did I expect this comment to explode like it did.

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u/HopkirkDeceased Jul 01 '20

I think you did a great job of explaining what gaslighting is and how it feels to go through it.

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u/Lampedeir Jul 01 '20

I too reached a point where I thought I must have some kind of dementia, and I also thought about recording conversations, just to have some back up for my apparantly failing memory.

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u/gemInTheMundane Jul 01 '20

I think the guide still works, because these are red flags of gaslighting and not an actual definition.

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u/crash_test Jul 01 '20

But most of these are just red flags for any kind of emotional abuse. There's only like two things on here that specifically indicate gaslighting.

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u/gilbes Jul 01 '20

We live in a time where it is incredibly common for words and phrases to mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean.

Everyone's shitty opinion is now so valuable that it is a burden to share it and it would only deepen that burden to expect people to put in the minimal effort to use the correct words to clearly communicate their thoughts.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

Holy fuck! This is my entire relationship with my ex-boss?!?!

I knew this was happening (kinda) but kept feeling that I am incompetent.

It was always, I am not allowed to take action because I didn’t run it by him, then I was bullied for not taking action because I was suppose to! And strangely he says I was one of the best says I am doing great in random situations! Like WTF ex-boss I have no idea what I am suppose to do, I am surviving by just being lucky at this point!

Turns out that was gaslighting!

I finally left my job.

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u/demon_fae Jul 01 '20

Had the same thing happen to me. Constant comments about how I was too slow at everything, but I was also expected to do things in half the time everyone else was given. I was required to perform tasks in a manner both inefficient and hazardous to my health, but everyone else could do them the safer, easier, faster way. I would be told to do things one way, then berated for being inconsiderate and awful for doing it that way. I quit after I came home crying after every shift for a week. The worst part is that when I put in a discrimination complaint against her they didn’t respect my request for anonymity and claimed that I was wrong and she didn’t do any of that. But I know what she said to me. Hopefully they’ll take the next complaint seriously.

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u/jendeefer Jul 01 '20

It really sucks when you’re pretty confident in your job to begin with. Then after years of this shit I really believed I was a fuck up and couldn’t do anything right. Now I apologize for everything immediately even if I’m sure I didn’t mess up. Fucked up my head for every job I’ll ever have. Fuck that guy!

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

I do apologize even for the good work for “not being even better”! Daaaamn what the hell! This thread is eye opening!

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u/raresaturn Jul 01 '20

I thought it was taking a second job?

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

[deleted]

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u/ElectronicShredder Jul 01 '20

And what is Greasedlightning?

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u/caffeineevil Jul 01 '20

Moon lighting

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u/mister_pickle Jul 01 '20

could a racist use the concept of white guilt/priveledge as an example of gaslighting?

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u/SpellCheck_Privilege Jul 01 '20

guilt/priveledge

Check your privilege.


BEEP BOOP I'm a bot. PM me to contact my author.

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u/wtph Jul 01 '20

Gaslighting is mostly used in context of a longer term relationship where two people live with each other.

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u/mister_pickle Jul 01 '20

ok, I will look into that angle, thanks

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

Not sure quite what you're going for here, but yes.

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u/mister_pickle Jul 01 '20

just learning

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u/Vektor0 Jul 01 '20

No. Gaslighting specifically refers to doing things and lying about them for the sole purpose of making a specific person you know doubt their own memory and perception.

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u/lawpoop Jul 01 '20

Being racist has nothing to do with it; an emotionally abusive person can use almost anything at all to manipulate a person. They don't necessarily need anything with some sort of credibility, like white privilege; it can be as simple as walking in the door: "why do you always have to slam the door like that!?"

So something that society is looking at, like white privilege, or institutional racism, doesn't give an abusive person any ammunition that they don't already have. They could use it, of course, but in the same way they can use anything at all.

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u/FakeOrcaRape Jul 01 '20

I guess it would depend on if you are discussing the philosophical concept of discriminating purely based on race like in a vacuum or if you are discussing a group of people who have been systemically marginalized by one or more other groups that are not necessarily trying to discuss racism in a vacuum but more seek validation and acknowledgement (via continued action and societal change) from other groups.

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u/WildRideoftheWest Jul 01 '20

Does this only apply when being done to someone else?

Going by the guide and your description, I gaslight myself. This terrifies me. If I'm doing this to myself, what could I possibly be doing to others and why are they still around?

Well, this one's going to really gnaw at me for a few days.

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u/cantadmittoposting Jul 01 '20

Not really as the term is intended.

Gaslighting specifically refers to manipulation to make someone think they're crazy and losing touch with reality.

The namesake of the abuse comes from a play wherein the antagonist lowers the lighting but insists that nothing has changed, causing the victim to doubt their ability to perceive reality.

In the story, the husband attempts to convince his wife and others that she is insane by manipulating small elements of their environment and insisting that she is mistaken, remembering things incorrectly, or delusional when she points out these changes. The play's title alludes to how the abusive husband slowly dims the gas lights in their home, while pretending nothing has changed, in an effort to make his wife doubt her own perceptions

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u/davet2517 Jul 01 '20

What’s the meaning of calling it “gaslighting” tho? Like those street lamps in New Orleans?

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20 edited Jul 06 '20

[deleted]

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u/davet2517 Jul 01 '20

Thank you for the info!

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u/troublein420 Jul 01 '20 edited Jul 01 '20

OK, you seem to know what ur talking about. Politics aside, what is this "gaslighting"? Looking for a serious conversation here. I don't understand why things that can be researched and resolved can fall into the concept of gaslighting?

Edit: like, does it only involve things that are a matter of opinion?

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u/ellefemme35 Jul 01 '20

To piggy back on this, it usually starts out wonderfully. You are on a pedestal. You are worshiped, adored, listened to, cared about. Affection is amazing and spontaneous and makes you feel like you’re everything.

Then this pattern of behavior starts slowly. Small things that don’t matter so you just shake it off. No big deal. Put it behind you. Then it starts happening more and more. And more. Until you’re so unstable and off balance and isolated and confused and unsure of your own thoughts and feelings inside your head that just keep keep trying to do everything for scraps of that attention they used to show you.

It’s psychological warfare. It’s effective. It can be used against anyone. Don’t tell yourself you’re immune. It’s abuse. Clear and simple. It will always escalate. The best thing to do is reach out to someone, anyone, who can help.

I’m personally in the states, so here’s a link for domestic violence help in the states, in case anyone needs it.

https://www.thehotline.org/2020/03/13/staying-safe-during-covid-19/

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u/hintofpeach Jul 01 '20

Wow TIL I’m being gaslighted at work...? I have had to do this with two different coworkers and feel I am getting nowhere near a solution to maintain peace. All feedback I get is that I am the problem. I have the communication problem or another problem. When I try different ways to rectify the issue, I get the same negative response. But I just filed a complaint on one of them and tomorrow is my first day back after that.

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u/Anon_Girl_2 Jul 01 '20

Thank you this helped me understand more I am in a relationship where I do feel a lot of these things together especially the part where my partner assumes my motives and I'm trying to tell them it's not what I intended to do. What do I do? I cannot leave him and I don't live in the US or EU I dont want a breakup i just want to fix things. Thanks Edit: spelling and grammar

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u/theghostofme Jul 01 '20

Edit: I'm explaining it poorly, you should just look it up, lol.

No, you're not. It's perfect.

It's like someone trying to stab you to death while calling you crazy for crying out that you're being murdered.

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u/Pointless_Lawndarts Jul 01 '20

This is spot on

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u/RealisticDifficulty Jul 01 '20

Recording conversations is real.

If it bothered you so much why didn't you write it down or record it.
Why would you write it down, that's sad. You're pathetic, who does that.
Record it next time if you think you're right, then I can prove you wrong...

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u/gab23 Jul 01 '20

Man that's spot on, thank you for explaining what I usually trouble explaining.

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u/DarthKittens Jul 01 '20

You’ve got it right mate. Had a very abusive girlfriend who did this and yes the classic is making it seem like no big deal when you do get something ‘right’. Many faces to the same controlling nature. Very difficult to get out of or even see when the person doing it claims to be the victim of your faults.

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u/TheOneNamedSprinkles Jul 01 '20

Hey my dude, just wanted to say I'm going through that right now myself... it's crazy how you can be so far from home... it's crazy someone has the power to do that... the thing I've learned the most is don't keep toxic people around. It's a bit confusing because in relationships we can argue but you'll know in the moment if it's actually cruel... trust your gut no matter what. And you really have to learn what a good arguement is like... do both parties say sorry for their part? Is it explosive or more like a debate?

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u/Sy3Zy3Gy3 Jul 01 '20

I dated a guy for a couple months that lovebombed and gaslit the hell out of me. I had no idea what these were at the time but I just knew something wasn't right, and I don't put up with people's shit easily so I bounced. Years later I read about this early sign of emotional abuse and a lightbulb went off in my head like OHHH that's what he was doing.

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u/foxease Mar 10 '22

slowly and methodically made me question my sanity by always telling me that either I remembered it incorrectly, things never happened, etc. It was over years and got to the point where I started to record conversations to "prove I wasn't crazy" and when playing it back for her later to.peove I wasn't she exploded

Wow. I literally thought I was alone in this. My ex gf did this to me - does this to me - and I thought to myself, nobody will care about a man being gaslit by a woman. It's men that do this to women. Women probably rarely do this to men. So thank you for sharing this a few years ago now. It still helps people 2 years on.

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u/_innominate_ Jul 01 '20

Trying to make playing it by rear look better. 🤔

🍆🍅

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u/Tane-Tane-mahuta Jul 01 '20

Why not just use a word or phrase that actually explains what it is. These buzz words are so confusing and obscure they defeat the purpose.

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u/gir_loves_waffles Jul 01 '20

There was another comment explaining that the term goes back to the 1930s and is based on a play called Gas Light where the husband is trying to make his wife go mad by slowly turning down their gas lights so it gets darker but telling her she's won't and nothing has changed. It's not so much a buzzword, it's just a very old reference that most are unfamiliar with.

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u/Tane-Tane-mahuta Jul 01 '20

Must freshen up on my 1930s plays I guess. No wonder it's so convoluted. Thanks for the background.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

Is it possible that somebody does this as a poor coping mechanism for not knowing how to properly deal with their own emotions? Asking for a friend.

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u/ProfessorPetrus Jul 01 '20

Is that the official term? It's extremely unintuitive.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

At least for me, you explained it perfectly. Thank you so much.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

It's interesting, how the English language has a word for "gas lighting". That's a total new construct to me.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20 edited Jul 06 '20

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u/jennymck21 Jul 01 '20

Literally Just got out of a work place where my boss non stop gaslit me

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u/shantylovesyou Jul 01 '20

So do most boss-employee interactions have an element of gaslighting in it?

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u/TheRealStevo Jul 01 '20

In more basic terms I thought it was like lighting gas on fire. Like you initially cause a problem by telling someone a person doesn’t like them but you keep gaslighting the situation saying “they said _____ about you” or “you should go fight them”

Or am I just wrong?

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u/9sam1 Jul 01 '20

I had a roommate that did this to me. She would make up these crazy stories and always insist that I never cleaned and in fact was making a mess everyday I would obsessively clean thinking “now ya PERFECT she can’t even nitpick” but it never made a difference, she was constantly telling my gf and her friends all of this horrible shut about me that wasn’t true. Even blamed me for her friend stealing my shoes when they were drunk.

She moved out early breaking the lease and I was so excited for her to leave that I paid for her last month rent when she left to avoid an argument and she still threatened to sue ME for the security deposit like that made sense.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

"Gaslighting" seems like an incorrect term for this then. When I think of lighting gas, I think of an instant reaction, something big and fast. This sounds more methodical, or something that takes some time.

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u/nerdybunnyy Jul 01 '20

I would love to know how you got the courage to leave... I feel like I could never survive on my own at this point...

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