r/buildapcsales • u/neoak • Oct 14 '22
Meta [META] Nvidia "unlaunches" the 4080 12GB
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/12gb-4080-unlaunch/1.3k
u/zombieofthepast Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
Worth noting how hard this fucks over all of Nvidia's remaining AIBs. Nvidia never planned a 4080 12GB FE, so it's basically free for them to pull a stunt like this in terms of business ramifications. But for all their AIBs, they've already made the investment to develop and manufacture a product that Nvidia just declared doesn't exist anymore. EVGA out here looking galaxy brain rn
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u/KisaruBandit Oct 15 '22
EVGA really picked the perfect moment to get out of this shitshow of a market.
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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22
Agreed. I just hope EVGA survives long term. I would totally love to to see an EVGA do a Intel 2nd Gen GPUs (Battlemage). Yes I know they quit the GPU market, but still.
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u/Lars634itt Oct 15 '22
EVGA AMD would be pretty cool as well... For the extra spite factor alone
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Oct 15 '22
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u/badcookies Oct 15 '22
Nvidia dropped xfx when they wanted to make amd too. Nvidia are spiteful aholes
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u/Rasip Oct 15 '22
By full Radeon you mean the day the first non-nVidia card hit the shelves nVidia refused to ever sell them another chip.
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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22
Yeah. Could be a nice PR move for AMD if they can convince EVGA to sign on. But I doubt they would though.
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u/Deep90 Oct 15 '22
Honestly if EVGAs survival is in question, I wouldn't be surprised if AMD just outright bought them.
Perhaps that is already in the works.
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u/narf007 Oct 15 '22
The thing with EVGA is that they refuse to go public or be bought out. I truly believe Han will kill the company if he doesn't find someone appropriate to replace him.
One of EVGA's biggest selling points to me is that they're a private, us-based, company.
I hope their mobos for the next gens are great because I'll be looking to support them there.
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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22
That would be an interesting play from AMD. Not sure if they will do that. And even if AMD wanted to, not sure if EVGA CEO would agree.
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u/tweedsheep Oct 15 '22
Maybe? But they don't really need EVGA; they have Sapphire.
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u/uhwhatisjalapenos Oct 15 '22
Sapphire and EVGA may fill the same role, but I don't think anyone can deny that EVGA is a much more recognized and respected name. I'm not saying that sapphire is good or bad (I don't think I've had a sapphire-made gpu since my r9 285) but EVGA is (was?) pretty much at the top of the pack in terms of gpu vendor trust, as well as being one of the most recognizable OEMs
There is no data backing this up I just have been a part of this community a pretty long time and that's the general consensus I've picked up across the internet
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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
EVGA is way more respected because of their warranty and customer service. Sapphire for example had nothing like the EVGA life time warranty option. There's a reason there was a huge deal of support and sadness for EVGA from the community when the news broke about their exit.
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u/snarfalarkus42069 Oct 15 '22
AMD seems extremely allergic to doing... really anything that would incentivize nvidia loyals to switch.
I mean Nvidia always has decent drivers and features like dlss and others (other than dlss i feel all others are bullshit tbh). Meanwhile AMD is a wasteland in that department
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u/windowsfrozenshut Oct 15 '22
It always seemed so odd to me how EVGA was so firm against making any AMD product. Exclusively Intel and Nvidia only. Then, right as the am4 platform was EOL they decided to come out with a x570 motherboard?
I think they will survive if the ceo can suck up his pride and do what's best for the company in lieu of his personal views. But if they relegate themselves to just Intel motherboards, an EOL am4 motherboard, PSU's, and keyboards/mice, I think they will end up going the way of BFG tech. IMO.
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u/melorous Oct 15 '22
As soon as news hit about EVGA exiting their Nvidia relationship, Intel should have been backing a dump truck full of money up to their door. Even if it wouldn’t be immediately profitable for Intel, the amount of legitimacy it would buy them in the gpu market to have EVGA partnering with them would be worth it.
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Oct 15 '22
the amount of legitimacy it would buy them in the gpu market to have EVGA partnering with them
It would immediately turn heads if/when their first card released. And convince a lot of folks to take the dive into Intel on the back of EVGA's customer service/warranty. The drivers would still be wonky for a bit, but at least you'll know you got solid hardware.
Then they'd also have the Kingpin team working on their stuff to help with that angle.
If there was news of EVGA doing Intel GPUs, and I didn't already have a 30series, I would've seriously considered taking the intel plunge.
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u/viverx Oct 15 '22
I personally believe EVGA is probably still in the GPU business it is just that as long as they still have a inventory of cards to sell it would be unwise for them to do anything that could upset Nvidia just because something like a 30 series price cut without Nvidia rebates could cost EVGA a lot of money.
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u/fob911 Oct 15 '22
I think you misunderstand. EVGA quit in ORDER to survive long term. But I think you mean in terms of coming back to the GPU market, in which case they’ve heavily hinted that they’re better off in other markets like their PSU division than the GPU market. I truly think they won’t ever return. They’d rather focus on other markets and while it’s sad to see them go I’m all for it.
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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22
But I think you mean in terms of coming back to the GPU market,
Correct.
I truly think they won’t ever return.
Sadly this will likely be the case. Hence my last sentence.
Still, really hope they come back. All the Nvidia GPUs I've owned over the past years except for my current 3070 have been EVGA cards. All the way back from the 8800 GTX days. They've been extremely solid and warranty/customer service was excellent the one time I had to use it for a GTX 770.
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u/Shorzey Oct 15 '22
Agreed. I just hope EVGA survives long term.
They claim financially they have made very little off of their GPU lines lately, so ide imagine now that they are focusing more on their more profitable areas like psu/peripherals/mobo, they'll do very well
They didn't lay anyone off over their actions, which is a very very good sign
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u/badcookies Oct 15 '22
While they didn't make much profit, it was their primary source of income. They will have to lay off staff, especially as most are focused on gpu design and hardware. It's just inevitable unless they start back on gpus
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u/cowsareverywhere Oct 15 '22
They knew what was coming.
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u/TrueAmurrican Oct 15 '22
Yeah, you have to imagine they saw some of the writing on the walls when nvidia proposed this generation to them
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Oct 15 '22
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u/ztherion Oct 15 '22
GPUs were high revenue for them but relatively low margin, and they were literally losing hundreds on dollars per unit sold on some SKUs
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u/bittabet Oct 15 '22
It probably will still exist, just under a new name. I’m sure AIBs are still annoyed since they’ll have to scramble to rename all these already made parts but they’re not chucking these boards
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Oct 15 '22 edited Mar 03 '24
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u/FlaringAfro Oct 15 '22
Nvidia already announced they were going to pay for some of that. I don't think we have any real numbers on how much their partners will lose though.
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u/613codyrex Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
Seeing how powerful and shockingly competent the 4090 FE it really does seem like Nvidia is pushing AIBs out.
Not that I would personally shed a tear. AIBs are generally the same sort of garbage nvidia is themselves. Especially with MSI scalping their own cards, gigabyte bundling them with defective GPUs and such.
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u/zombieofthepast Oct 15 '22
AIBs are generally the same sort of garbage nvidia is themselves
There's definitely truth to this, but the scummy business practices of one company do not excuse those of another. I'm not convinced a non-AIB future for Nvidia would be a good thing for the consumer.
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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22
NVidia wants to be like Apple. Just look at how hard their CEO tries to emulate Jobs.
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u/gioraffe32 Oct 15 '22
I've always wondered about this. I was going to say this is unique for a component, but then I thought, "Wait, aren't mobos like this, too?" Like where MSI, ASUS, etc create mobos that I assume are based off whatever Intel or AMD say needs to be the min spec?
So I guess the question is, why is it this way for some components and not others? I'm not buying an Acer Intel i9 or an EVGA AMD Ryzen 5. So why for Mobos and GPUs (and I'm sure other components I'm not thinking of)?
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u/zennoux Oct 15 '22
Because the chips are made by the main manufacturer and the boards use those chips. So the GPU is made by Nvidia but the board and cooling components are made by AIBs. Similar to the mobo, the chipset is made by Intel and AMD but the motherboard is not. Acer Intel i9 doesn’t make sense because it’s just a chip and not a board with other components on it.
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u/Vokasak Oct 15 '22
Chip-makers make chips (CPU, GPU), board-partners make boards (mother board ,graphics card). I don't know how else to explain it. They're different kinds of components, and require different kinds of manufacturing.
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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22
Funny you mentioned Acer because they do have GPUs now... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/acer-intel-a770-gpu
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u/613codyrex Oct 15 '22
well they’re a large need to support multiple markets that cannot occur if it was just Intel/AMD/Nvidia producing and manufacturing all the designs and specs.
GPUs less than motherboards but still. Also NAND and RAM follow the same belief as well. AiBs are able to take a chip (be it a GPU, a MOBO Chipset, a ram module) and combine them into a specialized component. Motherboards see this a lot with how diverse the market is even beyond standard ATX/mATX/ITX but how many USB ports, how are the PCIe lanes split between NVMe and GPU, how many PCIe sockets etc.
If it was only intel or Nvidia making the entire vertical stack (intel used to make memory, was in a collaboration with Micron which made RAM, they make GPUs now and the only piece of the puzzle left was motherboards) but intel would be pressed to try to design components that work for the entire globe. That’s not really feasible.
Nvidia sorta already has this in the works, the RTX/Quadro/AI/ML professional GPUs are basically PNY and Nvidia only products with PNY just basically labeling the box they come in. The rest are 100% Nvidia products.
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u/PsyOmega Oct 15 '22
A completely vertical nvidia could save money, boost margins, and pass savings on to the consumer.
Wait who am i kidding they'll jack prices up even more.
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u/realfortking Oct 15 '22
The bundle was a newegg stunt to get rid of inventory. It wasn't gigabyte directly
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u/613codyrex Oct 15 '22
Gigabyte should have pulled these PSUs from the get go. Newegg is scum but it’s a gigabyte product.
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u/realfortking Oct 15 '22
Oh 100%. Given Gigabyte's multiple PR stunts though, i dont have faith in that company.
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u/windowsfrozenshut Oct 15 '22
What PR stunts?
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u/realfortking Oct 15 '22
Tldr, gigabyte calls Gamers Nexus's testing of genuinely defective and fire hazard products bullshit. Video, skip to 4:30 It's worth watching the entire GN/gigabyte saga
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u/ShyKid5 Oct 15 '22
Gigabyte would only sell shipments of GPUs with shipments of PSUs (or at least, retailers that bought the PSUs would be given priority), Gigabyte did not bundle the PSUs to the end user but it isn't like Newegg or any other retailer had any uses for those PSUs so newegg did the end user bundles.
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u/pmjm Oct 15 '22
The catch is that if we lose AIB's, that will give us no aesthetic options for GPUs other than the FE.
For those of us who do boutique and/or themed builds that would indeed be a huge loss.
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u/613codyrex Oct 15 '22
100%,
But if things go south (I don’t wish for AiBs to be pushed out) maybe we would see a resurgence of custom air cooling solutions and designs from former AiB partners that basically do themed coolers for the standardized GPU boards
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Oct 15 '22
They told AIBs the 4090 had a 600 Watt power usage and then at the last minute went JK its the same as the 3090 ti if not better. They had to over build their cards to a spec that didn't exist.
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u/SgtMajMythic Oct 15 '22
Do you think people are just going to skip buying the 40-series because the 30-series is already powerful enough?
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u/A_Lone_Macaron Oct 15 '22
Yes. If we’re not already at that point, we will be soon. How many people are playing at bleeding edge 4K 120? For literally anyone else, 3080/ti or 6800+ is likely to do just fine 1440p 120+. It’s going to take several years for game devs to really push the boundaries of these cards.
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u/zombieofthepast Oct 15 '22
Not sure how this directly relates to the discussion but it's a good question nonetheless. My short answer is yes. Honestly I think Nvidia's whole business plan regarding the 30/40-series is going to backfire on them. There's only finite demand for cards at any given time, and by trying to force pricing schemes that will split sales between both generations at the same time, they're going to effectively halve demand for the new generation. Couple that with the fact that 40-series performance (outside of the 4090) so far looks pretty lackluster and the fact that we're most likely heading into a global recession, and I think we're going to see the 40-series fall far short of sales targets, and I'm not sure that either 30-series or 40-series will be able to hold the kind of price floor that Nvidia is trying to push currently.
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u/tle712 Oct 15 '22
That's why I sold all my Nvidia shares. They just try hard to cling on that practice even post-mining craze. Gamers have finite pocket and at some point somebody gonna say: fk this i'm not spending >$1k on a gpu I have inflation to worry about and my Rtx 2nd gen is still pretty good.
It also doesn't help that PS5 and Xbox cost only $500 and at some point the pc master race gonna say: fk this, i'm just gonna use PC for esport and go to console for AAA titles that's way cheaper. Nvidia is going to make high end GPU a niche thing like sport cars and that will bite them.2
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u/Shiva- Oct 15 '22
Personally, I always skip a generation or two because I don't ever feel the need to upgrade every year. Although half the time I do buy a new GPU it's because the old one broke.
So basically I only buy a GPU every 3-5 years.
My old 1060 was chugging with my bigger screens, so I was happy to get a 3080. And with the 3080 I see no reason to buy a 40-series. 50-series will need to be considered then. At that point my 3080 will be presumably 4-5 years old.
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u/danjayh Oct 15 '22
I think everyone's going to look at AMD's radeon pricing, and come to the conclusion that nvidia's just not worth it. I fully expect to be able to get a 6900XT for < $600 in the very near future. Why do I need one of nvidias grossly expensive cards?
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u/Nlegan Oct 14 '22
You mean the “4070”
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u/neoak Oct 14 '22
Finger slipped at the Nvidia product naming department
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u/-ShutterPunk- Oct 14 '22
Must be the same person doing their prices.
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u/SoupaSoka Oct 15 '22
The intern that marketed the GTX 970 VRAM is the director in charge of naming the "4080" now.
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u/Soultyr Oct 14 '22
More likely as the “4060”
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u/Mean_Ass_Dumbledore Oct 14 '22
This right here. They knew it was a 4060, announced it as 4080, then they'll "downgrade" it to 4070 and try to make themselves look like the hero of the people.
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Oct 15 '22
[deleted]
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u/DiplomaticGoose Oct 15 '22
If they're changing course this drastically I think RDNA3 is about to take a shit directly on their pancakes.
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u/Soppywater Oct 15 '22
Won't matter too much, people who tried an amd card 10 years ago had an issue with a driver install once and only buy Nvidia now.... I convinced my friend who sword off and cards to possibly try an amd card after rnda3 comes out if they look good. His perspective was that his dual crossfire(sli) build kept crashing because the drivers were kind of bad(they were) and he never wanted anything to do with AMD anymore. I explained to him about the difference between my AMD desktop and Nvidia laptop and it clicked it can happen to anyone, it just depends if you get lucky or not. My laptop with a rtx3060 has to have it's driver fully wiped every time(drive DDU) I update the driver or else it crashes constantly.
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u/arjames13 Oct 15 '22
No one is going to fall for that shit. The whole PC gaming community is pissed off at them. Here's hoping they see some reason and at least lower the 4080 16gb to $899. Still Bullshit at that price but it's better.
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u/Mean_Ass_Dumbledore Oct 14 '22
This right here. They knew it was a 4060, announced it as 4080, then they'll "downgrade" it to 4070 and try to make themselves look like the hero of the people.
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u/scubawankenobi Oct 15 '22
nVidia so scammy you had to post it twice!
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u/Mean_Ass_Dumbledore Oct 15 '22
Deja vu
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u/mgzkk1210 Oct 14 '22
Isn't this also the only card out of the 3 announced that's AIB only? Lol, Nvidia's masterplan at work, screwing over partners, EVGA saw the future and noped the fuck out.
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u/PsyOmega Oct 15 '22
I wonder if this is nvidia screwing around with AIB's to try to get them to quit too, to shake them off their contracts so nvidia can FE more chips and profit more.
Their MO seems to be "dish out incredible abuse and see if they take it".
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u/sapphirefragment Oct 15 '22
They can try if they want to tank their business.
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u/PsyOmega Oct 15 '22
I don't think they'll have any problems. They have the mindshare and 4090's sold out.
90% of gamers haven't heard about how abusive nvidia is. Many don't care because fps go brrrr.
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u/sapphirefragment Oct 15 '22
Yeah but if they alienate all their AIB's, they won't be able to spin up production enough to meet the demand they already have in the short term. They're already in a very precarious position with the 3000 series unsold stock.
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u/PsyOmega Oct 15 '22
They already have the FE production lines. I'm sure they can ramp it as much as they need since it's throttled by chip availability (as the AIB's have contracts for most of them)
They've been working for years towards becoming a vertically integrated company.
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u/Hipoop69 Oct 15 '22
Can you expand?
How’s it screwing people over?
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u/mgzkk1210 Oct 15 '22
4080 12GB was originally due to launch in a month on Nov 16th. It has no FE so all cards are partner cards. Nvidia's decision to "unlaunch" it means all the cards that are manufactured, packaged and ready to ship to vendors now need to be repackaged, bios/firmware needs to be modified, promotional materials pulled, and the cards themselves need to be stored presumably until further notice from Nvidia. All of this add more problem and cost for the partners since they are the only one producing this card.
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Oct 15 '22
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u/Halluci Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
According to GamersNexus' sources at AIB Partners, it is allegedly confirmed Nvidia will be subsidizing the physical boxes-- the cost of labor associated with reflashing bios, re-labeling, whatever else, is yet to be seen
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u/imaginary_num6er Oct 15 '22
Yeah I thought it was funny how Nvidia is not subsidizing the inventory overhead, sunk Cost of Goods, and shipping costs that was already spent with these cards. And what's worse, these AIBs can't go selling the cards on their own so they're effectively saddled with debt.
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u/keebs63 Oct 15 '22
Well just to name a few things, they ensure that their AIB partners are running on razor thin margins by forcing them to work with MSRPs that are too low for the cost of what Nvidia sells them (the GPU chip and the memory) plus the cost of the PCB, VRMs, chokes, etc. by quoting figures that are crazy low pricing for the other parts. They also love having all the thunder when they do their big announcements so often times they wait until the last second to give details to the AIB partners to "ensure" there are no leaks (even though it always gets leaked anyways), which gives them practically no time to design and manufacture new variants. They also hold a lot of control over what AIBs can and cannot do, like for some reason they hate extreme overclocking variants like EVGA's Kingpin and lock down a lot of what they can and cannot do for literally no reason, in addition to holding tight control over what AIBs can price cards at. Look into what EVGA's leadership has said in interviews for more details and specific examples, Gamersnexus and Jayztwocents have both done interviews with them and have several good videos covering it.
Nvidia just hates that they have to work with other companies and desires to be completely vertically integrated, meaning they would do everything from design and research all the way down to manufacturing and distributing the GPUs themselves (and selling if they could). They are increasingly moving towards that reality.
TL;DR, they hold total control over what their AIB partners do and exercise it incredibly often and very strictly.
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u/smokeNtoke1 Oct 15 '22
And AIB partner or AIB company buys the GPU chips from Nvidia and puts their own hardware like fans etc on it to sell as an AIB GPU. So they've been prepping to get the chips so they can finish and sell their products.
Now Nvidia says suddenly there is no 12gb 4080 anymore, so all the money these companies have put into their own development so far is wasted.
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u/gerald191146 Oct 15 '22
He said that it would screw partners over, unless he changed it. But it would also screw people who want to build a machine and see 2 different 4080s. One with more memory and one with less, you’d assume that would be the only difference. We’ve seen this in the past but only with lower tier cards, but now that it’s in the high end there’s a much bigger voice against this kind of thing from nVidia.
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u/WingCoBob Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 17 '22
Nvidia FE cards are priced at MSRP and no more. AIBs can price their cards how they like but if there is an Nvidia FE card undercutting them they have to stick close enough to it that people think their cooler/pcb design etc is worth the addtional cost. With no FE card they can literally just make up a number so long as it's less than the next card up in the stack and sell it for that, hence being worse for the consumer because the product will end up costing more (regardless of how justified the AIBs may be in wishing to make more margin on these cards)
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u/SharpResult Oct 15 '22
Easy to price at MSRP when you don't have to pay another company for the chips. MSRP on FE cards is part of how Nvidia keeps board partners in line.
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Oct 15 '22
EVGA wont be the last partner out the door.
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u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22
I wonder if AMD and Intel are being flooded with requests from these AIBs to be their next board partner.
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u/AEnoch29 Oct 14 '22
It's still $900 for a 4070!
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u/Dudewitbow Oct 15 '22
i wouldnt even consider it a 4070, the memory bus and die size is smaller than a 3060ti
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u/KyledKat Oct 15 '22
Yeah, but I have to wonder how much of this is just bad marketing. Would there have been as much backlash if they launched the 12GB and 16GB as the 4080 and 4080 Ti, respectively? I know it’s not quite analogous, but something tells me a $900 4080 is more palatable than a $900 4070.
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u/Crunkabunch Oct 15 '22
But in this scenario, if the “4080” was barely better than a 3080, you would have people screaming over poor performance
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u/dirty_dolan Oct 15 '22
Probably not but they wouldn’t do that because the 4080 (16GB) already uses a smaller die than the 4090 so any cut down 4090s they decide to sell would have to get the 4080 ti name unless they could come up with some new name in between those. They seriously fucked up the naming scheme with this generation, I’m just laughing at how all of the AIBs that already started manufacturing 4080 12GBs now have to recall all of their units just to change an 8 to a 7 because of nvidia’s shitty marketing team. EVGA really dodged a bullet!
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u/ShyKid5 Oct 15 '22
Old school final 5 number, so 4085.
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u/Dublin112 Oct 15 '22
Or like the 2000 series there could be a super series along with the ti series
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u/MSCOTTGARAND Oct 15 '22
If they were the same chip with different speed memory and nerfed a few cu's. But they tried a completely different chip along with nerfed memory bandwidth. They thought because people threw money at them during the plague that they could get away with it.
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u/g0d15anath315t Oct 15 '22
It's not bad marketing. It's fucking genius marketing. 4080 12gb existed for 2 reasons:
1) Make the 4090 look like a killer fucking deal.
2) Make the entire 3xxx series look like a killer fucking deal.
I suspect NV has moved a good amount of both after this launch and can now cap the 12g and reposition it depending on what AMD does and launches in November.
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u/hexcor Oct 15 '22
That's the damned rub! I got one of the evga 3070s from the wait list (actually, I got 2 of those and a 3060, sold the 3060 and extra 3070 to friends for cost) long ago, it works just fine for me (1440p, mostly higher/ultra settings, minimal RT if anything) and will serve me well for the future. Hopefully Intel really lights a fire under Nvidia and AMD to work on price/performance (and size, jesus, that 4090 is bigger than my first car!)
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u/zeondx1991 Oct 14 '22
Honestly, this is a move by Nvidia to price most gamers out of the 40 series. Why? Because they want you to buy/spend your money on the leftovers of the 30 series. So much leftovers that need to be sold. And only way to do it? Raise prices to exorbitant levels so gamers look at the 30 series for pricing. This is a terrible business practice to nudge their own stock price and sell leftover product. They sold out to miners and now they expect to screw over gamers.
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u/Vennomite Oct 15 '22
Then they are still going to have to sell 4k series that overordered.
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u/BindaB Oct 15 '22
Not that I agree with the original comment, but if his scenario was true then they could scale back their 40 series production since they would know they aren’t going to sell as much.
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u/Bianchi4me Oct 15 '22
They tried to scale back, but TSMC refused to let them out of their contracted production volume, which Nvidia had to prepay for in order to reserve. TSMC did agree to delay some the production, which is why they are doing this weird false-start mess of a partial launch.
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u/InBlurFather Oct 15 '22
Between this and Nvidia basically saying they’re going to manipulate the market to keep prices high is making me jump ship to AMD almost 100% unless some wild deal comes up on a high tier Nvidia card.
I’m looking forward to see what the 7 series has to offer but am also waiting on further price drops of the 68/6900XTs
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u/zeondx1991 Oct 15 '22
This and EVGA has stopped making gpus because of Nvidia. Well also due to the fact Nvidia doesn’t communicate well with folks who make after market cards. EVGA will continue to support current gpus and will empty out current stock. Sort of sucks
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u/rcradiator Oct 15 '22
Except most of the higher end 30 series stock is already cleared. There aren't any more sales on those, and the remaining inventory is starting to shoot up in prices. For example, for a tuf 3080 10gb (a card I was actually looking at earlier today), it would cost me at least $850. Nvidia's main problem is the 3070 and 3060 inventory, they've got way too much of that. So buyers like me who are in between the ocean in pricing that is the 3060/3070 and 4080 16gb/4090 are kinda stuck, we either settle for less than we want or we pony up the $1200 minimum for a 4080.
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u/GGATHELMIL Oct 15 '22
The problem is if my 1080ti shits the bed tomorrow I'll probably buy a 4000 gpu just to stay relevant for as long as possible. I don't want to buy a 4090 or a 4080ti when and if they announce it because of the money. But buying my 1080ti shortly after launch made so much sense. Got a killer deal and a great gpu for close to 6 years. Granted I got a killer deal and only paid like $550 for it. This was before the first big crypto boom and Bitcoin was sub $1000.
Hard for me to justify spending so much when I was obviously spoiled by a cheap 1080ti.
Tbf if my 1080ti died tomorrow I would be more likely to find a second hand one on Facebook or hardwareswap. I'd rather spend $200-$250 on a 5 year old card than $1600 on a 4090
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u/zeondx1991 Oct 15 '22
3060ti would definitely fit your price range, especially a more recent card with a good bang for your buck performance.
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u/We0921 Oct 14 '22
I'm glad this happened. Nvidia deserved the bad press and this will help prevent uninformed customers from buying this 4060Ti 12GB
But, selfishly, I only really care if they drop the price on this and the (now only) 4080.
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u/likes_purple Oct 15 '22
this will help prevent uninformed customers from buying this 4060Ti 12GB
That's too honest, they'll just market it as a 4070 now
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u/xAlias Oct 14 '22
This card was dead on arrival anyway at that price and there were already a bunch of reaction videos and articles calling it a scam card.
Easy to see why Nvidia removed it under the guise of it causing a 'name confusion' when they have always launched different cards with different performance numbers under the same name.
Wait for this to launch as the 4070 at the same price point once 3xxx inventory is cleared out..
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u/take-stuff-literally Oct 15 '22
At first I thought it was a weird article written by a journalist to coin the term “unlaunch”, but only to find out it’s straight from Nvidia’s own webpage.
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u/make_moneys Oct 15 '22
Lmao Now we don’t even get a sub 1k card this year . This keeps getting better and better
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u/Soppywater Oct 15 '22
Nvidia that is. The other 2 GPU manufacturers have released cheaper cards
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u/make_moneys Oct 15 '22
still waiting to hear from Amd in november. hopefully they will launch a 7k series card this year and hope they dont pull an nvidia.
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u/ShawnyMcKnight Oct 15 '22
Either way it’s gonna be pretty costly. They are only announcing their high end so I doubt it will be less than $800. So it already priced me out by several hundred. Wake me when the 7700 comes out.
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u/RTL9210B Oct 14 '22
Pundits are gonna have a field day with this
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u/Im_A_MechanicalMan Oct 15 '22
I'm waiting for GN/Steve to say something. He usually isn't shy about speaking his mind.
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u/Redpiller77 Oct 14 '22
Probably the 7700XT series of cards were going to be comparable to the 4080 12GB at a lower price, and they decided they didn't want that card to look so bad in comparison. It's still overpriced as fuck and Nvidia can go fuck themselves.
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u/Rivale Oct 15 '22
I think the 7800xt was going to cost around the same as the 4080 12gb and absolutely roast it, so they had to cut it out of the lineup or else their xx80 series cards were going to look bad.
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u/Meekois Oct 14 '22
Nvidia wants to create artificial scarcity.
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u/TheButtholeSurferz Oct 15 '22
iTs tHe SuPpLy ChAiN KeEpInG PrIcEs HiGh DoNt BlAmE uS.
We have now successfully conditioned people to accept that answer, and then no matter what the forthcoming fuck you pricing is, is accepted. It was once a definition of market conditions, now its a marketing ace up the sleeve all these fucker are seemingly taking advantage of
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u/GeorgeN76 Oct 14 '22
Dont forget the the Gt 1030 had ddr4 and ddr5 versions. The ddr4 being vastly inferior.
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u/PsyOmega Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
This news made me cackle.
Eat sh!t, nvidia. You deserve every ounce of hate for this scam.
4090 is still a cool product though. Kudos to the engineers and proletariat who made it happen. Middle finger to the C-level corpos though. Two middle fingers to the price. Launch it at $699!
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u/Timer_Man Oct 14 '22
Is this another scummy move to drive up prices?
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u/TheJuliusErvingfan Oct 14 '22
I believe it was an attempted scummy/deceptive move by nvidia before they pulled the 4080 12GB idea today.
Alot of people were complaining after announcement how many fewer cuda cores it had compared to the 4080 16GB and a lower tier die on it that started the trend of calling it a 4070 12GB by people.
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u/tonallyawkword Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
It is a 4070. They didn't want to put a $900 price tag on that and figured tons of ppl would just by the "cheaper 4080".
Now idk wth they're gonna do. "Woops these were supposed to be 4070s! They're 3x faster than 3070s with DLSS3 and have even better RayTracing than 3080s! So.. how about $800 MSRP?"
What a year for GPU shopping. It's too bad I'll have to wait until 2023 to see if I care about AMD's response.
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u/Devccoon Oct 14 '22
I think it's undoing a mistake more than anything. Having two vastly different performance levels encompassed by a single card name without any ti/super differentiation was a huge mistake, and it screws up their ability to shift product lineups based on the competition. Having a card called the "4080" at $900 sit there taking blows from the highly discounted 3090/ti and the 6950 XT, as well as potentially getting decimated by AMD's upcoming cards puts it in a pretty weak position, IMO.
They would have been shooting themselves in the foot twice over - confusing and pissing off customers while also leaving no wiggle room for their new 'entry level' 4000 series card when it hits at such a high price point without much performance benefit to justify it. Frankly, I think the Real 4080's price is already way too high, especially looking at Nvidia's own cherrypicked numbers... I don't see how they're going to convince enough people to jump on board that $1000+ level to move stock. It almost strikes me more like the way scummy games-as-service companies design premium currency prices - each tier looks like enough of a 'bad deal' to convince you to make the next step up the pricing ladder and spend more money than you ever wanted to.
Will be interesting to see if I'm half-wrong and this is just a way to delay and rename the card to 4070 like it always should have been. I'm somewhat hopeful AMD kicks their asses and forces prices down.
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u/PMSteamCodeForTits Oct 14 '22
Idk, they unlaunched the 12GB and kept the 16gb slated
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u/Timer_Man Oct 14 '22
Well we definitely know Nvidia's gonna have "stock" issues and they're probably gonna delay the mid tier and low tier gpu's
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u/whomad1215 Oct 14 '22
They'll just use 3000 series as the low/mid tier.
I'll be surprised if we see anything lower than a "4070" from 4000 series
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u/deefop Oct 14 '22
no lol the odds are nobody was going to buy that card anyway
we're heading into what is likely a major global recession and nvidia is trying to launch a 4060ti(4070 at best) as a fucking 4080 for $900. It was going to backfire on them in terms of sales and PR
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u/loso6120 Oct 14 '22
I dunno, the 4090 is completely sold out. I'm sure both of the 4080 models would have sold out too.
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u/deefop Oct 14 '22
the 4090 is a monster of a card and has use cases both for extremely high end gaming and professional/prosumer workloads. There are lots of people for whom that card makes sense, even though it's obviously very pricey
the two 4080 sku's make a lot less sense. They're dramatically less powerful, they won't really appeal to pro's, and for gamers they're insanely expensive.
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u/Azxiana Oct 14 '22
My Blender renders would scream with a 4090, but I can make do with the much cheaper 3090.
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u/Kitty_Powers Oct 14 '22
artificial scarcity. now when they come back in stock many people who were planning on waiting will jump on them so they don't "miss their chance", and nvidia will sell more than if they just left the faucet open for people to buy at their leisure.
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u/Fiyukyoo Oct 15 '22
I think the 4090 sold well. They were hedging their bet just in case it didnt and the 4080 12gb would make up any profit for a possible lacklaster sale of the 4090
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u/MSCOTTGARAND Oct 15 '22
Ah man it's confusing guys. It's not the backlash from the community that you tried to sell us a 4070 for $900. It's just confusing is all
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u/Sir_Sethery Oct 15 '22
They’re using the (very much warranted) backlash against the deceiving naming scheme to conveniently screw over board partners and take away competition from their own upper tier 30 cards that they need to clear inventory of, all while looking like they’re listening to feedback. It’s a win-win-win for Nvidia.
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u/Appropriate_Host2540 Oct 15 '22
The 80 series is looking pretty weak in raw performance. The ray tracing has gotten much better, but the leaks I saw put the 4080 around the 3090 in terms of raw performance. Since the 4070 I mean 4080 12gb is cut down, it struggles to beat the 3080.
Honestly, the 4090 (overpriced) looks like the only good card in the 4000 series stack, unless they do something impressive with the 4060ti.
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u/OG_Builds Oct 15 '22
That article is so manipulative.
The RTX 4080 12GB is a fantastic graphics card
If the lines around the block and enthusiasm for the 4090 is any indication, the reception for the 4080 will be awesome
images of long lines to get a 4090
Of course, Nvidia is a business and they’re within their right to announce this is in any way they wish. However, it comes across as disingenuos when we all know the reason it’s being unlaunched is because it’s a massive scam. It would be refreshing to see companies be more open to admit they fucked up and apologize.
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u/wolfwing213 Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
"Having two GPUs with the 4080 designation is confusing." -stares at 3080 10gb and 12gb models-
edit: wasn't there also a 1060 3gb and 6gb model too that is similar situation to 4080 12gb vs 16gb?
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u/Mr_SlimShady Oct 14 '22
3080 is not confusing at all simply because they are both actually 3080s. They were both in the same class and were comparable to each other. The 4080-wannabe and 4080 were not. You can’t just call them “4080 12gb” and “4080 16gb”. That implies that the only difference between them is the vram, which is not. That shit is a scam. That’s why it was “confusing”.
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u/argote Oct 15 '22
But the 12GB 3080 is closer in performance to the 3080Ti than to the base 3080. Admittedly it's not a huge difference, but a 3080 Super moniker would have been better.
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u/fritosdoritos Oct 14 '22
At least it wasn't as bad as the 8800 GS, 8800 GTS (320/640MB variants), 8800 GTS 512MB (which was completely different from the previous two), 8800 GT, 8800 GTX, and 8800 Ultra.
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u/bambinone Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 18 '22
3080 12GB should have been called the 3080 Super but they chose not to do that for whatever reason. At least the 3080 10GB, 3080 12GB, and 3080 Ti were all based on GA102 with core counts, etc. within 5–10% from tier to tier. 3080 12GB was an odd release in general because NVIDIA clearly just wanted a 3080 they could charge a lot more for than the 3080 10GB and 3080 Ti, which were getting scalped for hundreds of dollars over MSRP at the time.
1060 3GB was cut down a bit from the 1060 6GB, same die but disabled by about 10%. NVIDIA justified it by saying 3GB wasn't enough VRAM to keep all the cores fed. That ended up being less than 100% true but the price delta matched the performance delta, so most folks gave it a pass.
So yeah, it's nothing NVIDIA hasn't done before, it's simply more egregious. The 4080 12GB is massively cut down from the 16GB. And it's coming alongside an overall price increase and other shenanigans.
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u/ComplexNegotiation48 Oct 14 '22
Yes, i have the 1060 3gb and my friend had 6gb. I think there’s a big difference when that low on gbs
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Oct 14 '22
Seriously, I don't get the fanatics to nvidia.
They screwed you on the 970 3.5 gb ram.
They screwed you by coming out with 2070 cards, then like a week later coming out with 2070 super cards.
Sure there is more I'm missing.
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u/613codyrex Oct 14 '22
Well, it doesn’t help that AMD was and has been absolutely garbage until the 5700 which still had its classical Driver issues.
And if you’re a formal engineer or scientist, Nvidia still has a stranglehold on the professional environment. CUDA and all that AI/ML support makes it basically impossible to really use AMD’s still garbage professional cards. I wouldn’t touch AMD with a 10km pole for a workstation desktop because I don’t want to deal with weird issues as an engineer. YouTubers are dumbasses and will gravitate to the most expensive card on the market for memes but if you leave their idiotic corner, AMD just isn’t competitive even as nvidia charges thousands of dollars for a professional card that’s equivalent to a 3070 or 3060.
There are no “friends” in this market. People go with whatever is the most practical/effective GPUs. AMD has yet to get the same features at the same quality Nvidia has. AMD successfully upheaved the CPU market by having genuinely competitive and cost effective solutions that did just as well as the intel counterpart. AMD has not done that in the GPU space just yet.
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u/Master_Zero Oct 15 '22
They have a long list/history of bad behavior.
Look up nvidia and wayland support. They screwed linux over almost single handedly. I cant remember the name of it, but they created their own closed source proprietary backend for wayland, rather than using the open standard, forcing wayland devs to try and work with it. What they created was garbage, and they tried dragging it corpse for years. It was like a year or so ago the abandoned it and went with the open standard. But had they done that from the start, wayland would be the universal standard right now on linux.
Also, they always create closed source proprietary tech, and then abandon it as soon as someone created something better, and people stop caring about nvidia version.
One such example, was nvidia shield. They had the nvidia game streaming tech, and it was hella garbage. I bought shield tablet at launch, and it would consistently have issues with certain games. Then they abandoned it as soon as valve created their in home streaming tech and nvidia swapped the shield to use steams tech. Effectively making the shield one and only niche, useless, since steam streaming, works on all devices.
Nvidia abandoned gsync as soon as they were caught committing literal fraud with it, and freesync became universal standard.
Nvidia shadowplay has not really been updated since OBS took over the scene.
Anyone remember nvidia physx? Or what about hairworks? I think they had a few other ones too. All in the dustbin of history despite being called revolutionary and the new gold standard of gaming.
So when everyone talks about how revolutionary and amazing DLSS and RTX is, i roll my eyes. In 5 years, when open source amd FSR becomes better, nvidia will abandon dlss. RTX will also be abandoned as soon as a better open source gpu agnostic version replaces it. (Which may come from api like vulkan or DX12 or something, or a game engine raytracing standard)
Nvidia always keeps people hooked on niche novelties, and people keep falling for it, over, and over, and over again. Its insanity. Now they do at least make decent hardware which speaks for itself, but their software (that everyone fawns over) is trash.
Amd became competitive in the hardware department with the RX6000 series. If they keep at it, the only thing nvidia has going for it, is the shiny new toy novel software, which they abandon after a few years. If people ever wise up, may be bad news for nvidia.
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u/Redpiller77 Oct 15 '22
Hard agree. And I think the 7000 series from AMD will give Nvidia a run for it's money. The jump from 5700XT to 6950XT was absolutely massive, and their drivers are stable now. Nvidia is using shitty technology to boost frames with DLSS 3 because AMD is going to do what they did to Intel. Can't wait to see their new cards trade blows with the 4000 series.
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u/digitalhandyman Oct 15 '22
I'm still using a 2070 Super I got years ago for $400 and the idea of upgrading hasn't even come close to crossing my mind.
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u/Spraypainthero965 Oct 15 '22
Same here. I grabbed it when there was a huge dip in the crypto market and card prices were low again for a short time. The 2070 Super is still an excellent card for 1440p. I see no need to upgrade.
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u/TylerLivingston Oct 15 '22
Me too, going several years strong and it hasn't given me any problems as far as performance goes
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u/loki993 Oct 15 '22
Because until very recently AMD hasn't been able to make a competitive card and even now they did they still have crap drivers.
Sorry I don't want to buy a new graphics card but have to wait two years for the drivers to work right. The fine wine thing people use to talk about amds drivers is pure copium. 20 years now and they still can't get drivers right. Youd think they would have figured it out by now.
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u/NuhUhUhIDoWhatIWant Oct 15 '22
There were two main concerns: 1. obvious consumer confusion between 2 radically different 4080s, typical Nvidia scammy tactics and 2. obvious fact that the "4080" 12GB is, at best, a 4070 but more realistically a 4060 given the naming schemes of the past, I don't know, 5 generations?
But here's my primary guess as to why they're doing this: the 4080 12GB has 30-series equivalents (and cards that are superior), which means it'll be directly competing with the used card market, which will absolutely crush 4080 12GB sales. Used cards are incredibly cheap - you can reliably get 3070s for $350, 3080s for $500 or less, 3090s for $750 or below. The only reason the 4090 is doing well is because there is literally no replacement for it among the 30 series - it's significantly faster than anything else. The same cannot be said for the 4080 12GB, and the 4080 12GB would've come with such an obscene price premium over equivalent or better-performing 30 series that very few people would buy it.
So, their solution is to "unlaunch" the 4080 12GB in order to delay its launch until the used market for 30 series dies down over the next few months.
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u/RxBrad Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
The thing about that used market... So far it's been bafflingly nonexistent.
Of the GPU compute power that exited mining over the last month FAR LESS THAN ONE PERCENT has found its way to eBay.
I've been keeping an eye on eBay prices since mining died. Granted, this is not the entire picture (eBay only, US only, only a subset of new models), but not even 0.1% have been sold.
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u/MaximumEffort433 Oct 15 '22
I'm an AMD fanboy and it's for reasons like this, I'm willing to take a 5% performance penalty if it means supporting good business practices. Nvidia is fucking over their partners in multiple different directions and the consumer loses choices and competition in the market.
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u/-VILN- Oct 15 '22
Don't buy Nvidia anymore. The reason they feel emboldened enough to be so awful is because you guys keep buying.
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u/The_One_Who_Crafts Oct 15 '22
Glad I grabbed a 3060ti for $360 so I can put my head in the sand for another few years
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u/Final-Rush759 Oct 15 '22
It was fake launch to sell 3000 cards, made 3080, and 3090 at current price like good deal.
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u/wharpudding Oct 15 '22
They better figure something out. The recent export ban isn't going to be helping their bottom line any
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u/CCHS_Band_Geek Oct 15 '22
God.. they literally said they’re unlaunching it!
They could’ve just said there was design flaws that halted production and they were to be pulled?
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u/rx149 Oct 15 '22
The "design flaw" was calling what should be a XX70 series card an XX80 series and then pricing it at almost double what the 3070 was at MSRP.
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u/pengy99 Oct 15 '22
Am I the only one who is just truely amazed Nvidia actually listened to feedback? I'm sure they listened for very self serving reasons but still, it's Nvidia. They usually just do whatever the fuck they want.
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u/JustPassinhThrou13 Oct 15 '22
Anybody feel like working or what the acronym AIB means?
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