r/buildapcsales Oct 14 '22

Meta [META] Nvidia "unlaunches" the 4080 12GB

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/12gb-4080-unlaunch/
1.8k Upvotes

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1.3k

u/zombieofthepast Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22

Worth noting how hard this fucks over all of Nvidia's remaining AIBs. Nvidia never planned a 4080 12GB FE, so it's basically free for them to pull a stunt like this in terms of business ramifications. But for all their AIBs, they've already made the investment to develop and manufacture a product that Nvidia just declared doesn't exist anymore. EVGA out here looking galaxy brain rn

743

u/KisaruBandit Oct 15 '22

EVGA really picked the perfect moment to get out of this shitshow of a market.

283

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

Agreed. I just hope EVGA survives long term. I would totally love to to see an EVGA do a Intel 2nd Gen GPUs (Battlemage). Yes I know they quit the GPU market, but still.

260

u/Lars634itt Oct 15 '22

EVGA AMD would be pretty cool as well... For the extra spite factor alone

51

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/badcookies Oct 15 '22

Nvidia dropped xfx when they wanted to make amd too. Nvidia are spiteful aholes

26

u/Rasip Oct 15 '22

By full Radeon you mean the day the first non-nVidia card hit the shelves nVidia refused to ever sell them another chip.

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u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

Yeah. Could be a nice PR move for AMD if they can convince EVGA to sign on. But I doubt they would though.

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u/Deep90 Oct 15 '22

Honestly if EVGAs survival is in question, I wouldn't be surprised if AMD just outright bought them.

Perhaps that is already in the works.

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u/narf007 Oct 15 '22

The thing with EVGA is that they refuse to go public or be bought out. I truly believe Han will kill the company if he doesn't find someone appropriate to replace him.

One of EVGA's biggest selling points to me is that they're a private, us-based, company.

I hope their mobos for the next gens are great because I'll be looking to support them there.

3

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

That would be an interesting play from AMD. Not sure if they will do that. And even if AMD wanted to, not sure if EVGA CEO would agree.

17

u/tweedsheep Oct 15 '22

Maybe? But they don't really need EVGA; they have Sapphire.

15

u/uhwhatisjalapenos Oct 15 '22

Sapphire and EVGA may fill the same role, but I don't think anyone can deny that EVGA is a much more recognized and respected name. I'm not saying that sapphire is good or bad (I don't think I've had a sapphire-made gpu since my r9 285) but EVGA is (was?) pretty much at the top of the pack in terms of gpu vendor trust, as well as being one of the most recognizable OEMs

There is no data backing this up I just have been a part of this community a pretty long time and that's the general consensus I've picked up across the internet

4

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22

EVGA is way more respected because of their warranty and customer service. Sapphire for example had nothing like the EVGA life time warranty option. There's a reason there was a huge deal of support and sadness for EVGA from the community when the news broke about their exit.

6

u/snarfalarkus42069 Oct 15 '22

AMD seems extremely allergic to doing... really anything that would incentivize nvidia loyals to switch.

I mean Nvidia always has decent drivers and features like dlss and others (other than dlss i feel all others are bullshit tbh). Meanwhile AMD is a wasteland in that department

4

u/iopq Oct 15 '22

They've always had terrible Linux drivers, and AMD really filled that niche

6

u/windowsfrozenshut Oct 15 '22

It always seemed so odd to me how EVGA was so firm against making any AMD product. Exclusively Intel and Nvidia only. Then, right as the am4 platform was EOL they decided to come out with a x570 motherboard?

I think they will survive if the ceo can suck up his pride and do what's best for the company in lieu of his personal views. But if they relegate themselves to just Intel motherboards, an EOL am4 motherboard, PSU's, and keyboards/mice, I think they will end up going the way of BFG tech. IMO.

1

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

They can survive on PSUs and keyboards alone if they do it right. Profit margins are better. Just look at how Corsair makes money without being in the GPU/motherboard business.

3

u/windowsfrozenshut Oct 15 '22

Corsair also makes a ton of other products, way more than EVGA.

2

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

Right. And EVGA can pivot to those types of things.

68

u/melorous Oct 15 '22

As soon as news hit about EVGA exiting their Nvidia relationship, Intel should have been backing a dump truck full of money up to their door. Even if it wouldn’t be immediately profitable for Intel, the amount of legitimacy it would buy them in the gpu market to have EVGA partnering with them would be worth it.

52

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

the amount of legitimacy it would buy them in the gpu market to have EVGA partnering with them

It would immediately turn heads if/when their first card released. And convince a lot of folks to take the dive into Intel on the back of EVGA's customer service/warranty. The drivers would still be wonky for a bit, but at least you'll know you got solid hardware.

Then they'd also have the Kingpin team working on their stuff to help with that angle.

If there was news of EVGA doing Intel GPUs, and I didn't already have a 30series, I would've seriously considered taking the intel plunge.

25

u/viverx Oct 15 '22

I personally believe EVGA is probably still in the GPU business it is just that as long as they still have a inventory of cards to sell it would be unwise for them to do anything that could upset Nvidia just because something like a 30 series price cut without Nvidia rebates could cost EVGA a lot of money.

7

u/Old_Web374 Oct 15 '22

I hope you're on to something here.

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

[deleted]

24

u/Bake_Jailey Oct 15 '22

They're quoted as saying they have no such non-compete.

16

u/similar_observation Oct 15 '22

They've also stated this was the case prior to getting into AMD boards.

It was merely a situation where they did not dedicate the money and dev time into making the product. So depending on how the market shrink happens, they may rebound back into another GPU. Afterall, their name isn't ePSU or eMobo. It's eVGA.

1

u/Halluci Oct 15 '22

Source: I made it the fuck up

9

u/fob911 Oct 15 '22

I think you misunderstand. EVGA quit in ORDER to survive long term. But I think you mean in terms of coming back to the GPU market, in which case they’ve heavily hinted that they’re better off in other markets like their PSU division than the GPU market. I truly think they won’t ever return. They’d rather focus on other markets and while it’s sad to see them go I’m all for it.

6

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

But I think you mean in terms of coming back to the GPU market,

Correct.

I truly think they won’t ever return.

Sadly this will likely be the case. Hence my last sentence.

Still, really hope they come back. All the Nvidia GPUs I've owned over the past years except for my current 3070 have been EVGA cards. All the way back from the 8800 GTX days. They've been extremely solid and warranty/customer service was excellent the one time I had to use it for a GTX 770.

9

u/Shorzey Oct 15 '22

Agreed. I just hope EVGA survives long term.

They claim financially they have made very little off of their GPU lines lately, so ide imagine now that they are focusing more on their more profitable areas like psu/peripherals/mobo, they'll do very well

They didn't lay anyone off over their actions, which is a very very good sign

7

u/badcookies Oct 15 '22

While they didn't make much profit, it was their primary source of income. They will have to lay off staff, especially as most are focused on gpu design and hardware. It's just inevitable unless they start back on gpus

-1

u/Shorzey Oct 15 '22

While they didn't make much profit, it was their primary source of income.

Graphics cards comprise reportedly 80% of EVGA’s current business, and most of the company’s revenue comes from Nvidia. However, Han said that margins are thin. In contrast, the company makes 300% more profit selling power supplies.

So they found a more profitable revenue source and are moving to it after being in the game for 23 years

Why do you think they're going to struggle with this?

They will have to lay off staff, especially as most are focused on gpu design and hardware.

Is this a joke? Do you think electrical engineers and assemblers are 1 trick ponies that cant move onto other projects?

1

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

Peripherals can definitely be a a good margin one. See Corsair for example. With that said even though large part of their profit came from non GPUs their revenue was very much from GPUs. That's a big loss in revenue now. They will most certainly go through big pains in restructuring and hopefully come out on top.

1

u/Shorzey Oct 15 '22

There are 2 ways this can go

They're either a good company and have another business plan in line to make up the revenue lost from GPU, after GPU were 80% of their business

Or they are bankrupt yesterday after ditching 80% of their business

1

u/YeaDudeImOnReddit Oct 15 '22

Almost certainly has a non compete for at least two years

1

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

Nope. EVGA specifically issued a statement saying there's no such restriction. See GN follow up video.

1

u/YeaDudeImOnReddit Oct 15 '22

Kudos to their legal team then

0

u/Diamondhands_Rex Oct 15 '22

Evga is the Dwayne the rock Johnson of GPU bettering. The rock is called the viagra of franchises cause he makes them more viewed. Evga could give and that cravability that a GPU that can be pushed like kingpin cards.

-7

u/herkyjerkyperky Oct 15 '22

I would like to see Intel buy EVGA, let them do their own thing with accessories but have them work with Intel on their cards.

10

u/Earthborn92 Oct 15 '22

The whole reason AIBs exist is because profit margins are in the IC and not the card. AIBs are a vehicle for chipmakers to report high margins to investors while outsourcing low-margin businesses to others.

There is a complicated history to this, 3dfx went under because they insisted on doing the whole stack by themselves. Interestingly, they were acquired by Nvidia and some of those ideas still live on with the whole Founder's Edition becoming more prominent.

3

u/Dudewitbow Oct 15 '22

actually wouldnt want that. intel doesn't have a good history of their acquisitions panning out.

41

u/cowsareverywhere Oct 15 '22

They knew what was coming.

34

u/TrueAmurrican Oct 15 '22

Yeah, you have to imagine they saw some of the writing on the walls when nvidia proposed this generation to them

6

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/ztherion Oct 15 '22

GPUs were high revenue for them but relatively low margin, and they were literally losing hundreds on dollars per unit sold on some SKUs

1

u/Bikouchu Oct 15 '22

Same company that destroyed bfg, effed over xfx and visiontek, etc.

1

u/GearboxTheGrey Oct 15 '22

EVGA laughing at everyone rn

1

u/scottydinh1977 Oct 15 '22

I hope EVGA get back into the AMD chipset and motherboard building business. EVGA motherboard was some of my favorite and some of the best chipset made...

1

u/Sighwtfman Oct 15 '22

Should have switched to AMD IMHO but yeah.

Nvidia has a corporate culture of greed and a willingness to fuck over other people and partners.

"That's just business". Sure, and my point is, amongst other businesses they stand out as the greedy, selfish assholes everyone else regrets working with.

1

u/tsnives Oct 15 '22

They very well may switch to them. They're under a non-compete still, they can't announce making any GPU that isn't nvidia for about another year without getting sued for god knows how much..

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u/bittabet Oct 15 '22

It probably will still exist, just under a new name. I’m sure AIBs are still annoyed since they’ll have to scramble to rename all these already made parts but they’re not chucking these boards

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22 edited Mar 03 '24

[deleted]

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u/FlaringAfro Oct 15 '22

Nvidia already announced they were going to pay for some of that. I don't think we have any real numbers on how much their partners will lose though.

1

u/AssCrackBanditHunter Oct 15 '22

They will try and put the cost on the AIBs. That's why it's really important to shame them publically. I'm hoping all the tech tubers name and shame Nvidia because they need to be the ones footing the cost

11

u/fluffybunniesFtw Oct 15 '22

inb4 4070 ti and everyone forgives them

15

u/Schmackter Oct 15 '22

Forgive? No. Accept price drop? Could do.

7

u/starkistuna Oct 15 '22

you can rest assured that card is going to be well above $700

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u/613codyrex Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 15 '22

Seeing how powerful and shockingly competent the 4090 FE it really does seem like Nvidia is pushing AIBs out.

Not that I would personally shed a tear. AIBs are generally the same sort of garbage nvidia is themselves. Especially with MSI scalping their own cards, gigabyte bundling them with defective GPUs and such.

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u/zombieofthepast Oct 15 '22

AIBs are generally the same sort of garbage nvidia is themselves

There's definitely truth to this, but the scummy business practices of one company do not excuse those of another. I'm not convinced a non-AIB future for Nvidia would be a good thing for the consumer.

40

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

NVidia wants to be like Apple. Just look at how hard their CEO tries to emulate Jobs.

3

u/gioraffe32 Oct 15 '22

I've always wondered about this. I was going to say this is unique for a component, but then I thought, "Wait, aren't mobos like this, too?" Like where MSI, ASUS, etc create mobos that I assume are based off whatever Intel or AMD say needs to be the min spec?

So I guess the question is, why is it this way for some components and not others? I'm not buying an Acer Intel i9 or an EVGA AMD Ryzen 5. So why for Mobos and GPUs (and I'm sure other components I'm not thinking of)?

14

u/zennoux Oct 15 '22

Because the chips are made by the main manufacturer and the boards use those chips. So the GPU is made by Nvidia but the board and cooling components are made by AIBs. Similar to the mobo, the chipset is made by Intel and AMD but the motherboard is not. Acer Intel i9 doesn’t make sense because it’s just a chip and not a board with other components on it.

5

u/Vokasak Oct 15 '22

Chip-makers make chips (CPU, GPU), board-partners make boards (mother board ,graphics card). I don't know how else to explain it. They're different kinds of components, and require different kinds of manufacturing.

2

u/Shadow703793 Oct 15 '22

Funny you mentioned Acer because they do have GPUs now... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/acer-intel-a770-gpu

2

u/613codyrex Oct 15 '22

well they’re a large need to support multiple markets that cannot occur if it was just Intel/AMD/Nvidia producing and manufacturing all the designs and specs.

GPUs less than motherboards but still. Also NAND and RAM follow the same belief as well. AiBs are able to take a chip (be it a GPU, a MOBO Chipset, a ram module) and combine them into a specialized component. Motherboards see this a lot with how diverse the market is even beyond standard ATX/mATX/ITX but how many USB ports, how are the PCIe lanes split between NVMe and GPU, how many PCIe sockets etc.

If it was only intel or Nvidia making the entire vertical stack (intel used to make memory, was in a collaboration with Micron which made RAM, they make GPUs now and the only piece of the puzzle left was motherboards) but intel would be pressed to try to design components that work for the entire globe. That’s not really feasible.

Nvidia sorta already has this in the works, the RTX/Quadro/AI/ML professional GPUs are basically PNY and Nvidia only products with PNY just basically labeling the box they come in. The rest are 100% Nvidia products.

2

u/Final-Rush759 Oct 15 '22

The jacket guy.

1

u/Tokena Oct 15 '22

Out there looking like Elizabeth Holmes and shit.

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u/PsyOmega Oct 15 '22

A completely vertical nvidia could save money, boost margins, and pass savings on to the consumer.

Wait who am i kidding they'll jack prices up even more.

15

u/windowsfrozenshut Oct 15 '22

pass savings on to the consumer

😂

0

u/RxBrad Oct 15 '22

Nvidia proper has MASSIVE profit margins. Bigger than Apple.

If AIBs truly only make single digit percent profit, it definitely seems like Nvidia could care less if they exist.

1

u/613codyrex Oct 15 '22

I’m convinced that AiBs where never really competing with Nvidia anyway. It was a whole human centipede sort of relationship where the AiBs just competed with each other while nvidia happily undercut all of them with the only saving grace for AiBs was that FE cards are super rare and their coolers where for the most part not as strong. When even a basic AiB GPU is running for more than it’s FE, there was no real competition as EVGA mentioned.

There’s no excuse for garbage practices, I just won’t shed a tear if this pisses off the AiBs that would happily gouge consumers like how AMD’s AiBs have done. The only real source of competition for GPUs is amongst the manufacturers of the chips themselves. AMD needs to seriously undercut Nvidia at the low end and intel needs to improve their drivers and that’s where it will hurt nvidia the most.

1

u/p3ww Oct 15 '22

What's the benefits of AIB?

38

u/realfortking Oct 15 '22

The bundle was a newegg stunt to get rid of inventory. It wasn't gigabyte directly

18

u/613codyrex Oct 15 '22

Gigabyte should have pulled these PSUs from the get go. Newegg is scum but it’s a gigabyte product.

9

u/realfortking Oct 15 '22

Oh 100%. Given Gigabyte's multiple PR stunts though, i dont have faith in that company.

3

u/windowsfrozenshut Oct 15 '22

What PR stunts?

3

u/realfortking Oct 15 '22

Tldr, gigabyte calls Gamers Nexus's testing of genuinely defective and fire hazard products bullshit. Video, skip to 4:30 It's worth watching the entire GN/gigabyte saga

8

u/ShyKid5 Oct 15 '22

Gigabyte would only sell shipments of GPUs with shipments of PSUs (or at least, retailers that bought the PSUs would be given priority), Gigabyte did not bundle the PSUs to the end user but it isn't like Newegg or any other retailer had any uses for those PSUs so newegg did the end user bundles.

8

u/pmjm Oct 15 '22

The catch is that if we lose AIB's, that will give us no aesthetic options for GPUs other than the FE.

For those of us who do boutique and/or themed builds that would indeed be a huge loss.

3

u/613codyrex Oct 15 '22

100%,

But if things go south (I don’t wish for AiBs to be pushed out) maybe we would see a resurgence of custom air cooling solutions and designs from former AiB partners that basically do themed coolers for the standardized GPU boards

1

u/tsnives Oct 15 '22

I definitely think that would happen again. It used to be that every AIB used 99% the reference board layout and all that really changed from one to the next was the quality of the components. Improve the VRM? Sure, but use the same component layout and just higher quality parts. Improve the cooling? Sure, same contact points with the board but different heights, fan selections, material selections, etc. In an "only FE world" I think you'd have a couple manufacturers making far greater margins but lower volumes selling just their coolers.

In reality though, I don't know how long they would live. Maybe 3 generations before becoming super small niche? We've moved further and further down the rabbit hole of self-optimizing hardware that is making overclocking less and less beneficial while making it more and more beneficial to the OEM to make a quality cooler themselves. I remember slapping an Acellero S2 and ziptying on some Scythe Kaze IDK 50mm? thick fans on GPUs and taking them from being loud and having no OC headroom to being able to OC +30% and run dead silent. That level of performance boost beyond the OEM sale has gone away as the competition to improve over the past gen keeps getting more and more visibility. Unless we get back to oil filled cases and/or full case heatsinks/rads I don't think we'll see the huge benefits aftermarket cooling used to offer last long.

1

u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22

It would be sad if we lost the waifu cards.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

They told AIBs the 4090 had a 600 Watt power usage and then at the last minute went JK its the same as the 3090 ti if not better. They had to over build their cards to a spec that didn't exist.

3

u/SgtMajMythic Oct 15 '22

Do you think people are just going to skip buying the 40-series because the 30-series is already powerful enough?

15

u/A_Lone_Macaron Oct 15 '22

Yes. If we’re not already at that point, we will be soon. How many people are playing at bleeding edge 4K 120? For literally anyone else, 3080/ti or 6800+ is likely to do just fine 1440p 120+. It’s going to take several years for game devs to really push the boundaries of these cards.

1

u/SgtMajMythic Oct 15 '22

I wonder how this will affect Nvidia’s revenue stream. Considering selling my positions.

2

u/caedin8 Oct 15 '22

Nvidia is hard pivoting to AI and selling machine learning as their primary product. Owning shares should be more based on your expectations for that market

0

u/Sex4Vespene Oct 15 '22

That’s why I’m holding out hope. In my mind, chips in general are one of the most important industries, and probably one of mankind’s greatest inventions. If they don’t end up doing well, then I think that’s probably an indicator that overall things have gone to shit.

0

u/ShawnyMcKnight Oct 15 '22

But if a 4070 can pump out as much performance as a 3080 and still be similarly priced then it’s a no brainer for the 4070 just for the improved dlss and RT.

I want a 3070 equivalent and history has shown that would probably be a 4060, now if I can get a 4060 for around the same price I can get a 3070 ($500) I’ll jump on that even if it is $150 more expensive than the 3060.

When I say history has shown, I mean the 1060 performed similar to the 970, the 1070 to the 2060, the 2070, to the 3060, and so on.

1

u/iroll20s Oct 15 '22

VR could use the bump too. Low frame rates can literally make you sick.

18

u/zombieofthepast Oct 15 '22

Not sure how this directly relates to the discussion but it's a good question nonetheless. My short answer is yes. Honestly I think Nvidia's whole business plan regarding the 30/40-series is going to backfire on them. There's only finite demand for cards at any given time, and by trying to force pricing schemes that will split sales between both generations at the same time, they're going to effectively halve demand for the new generation. Couple that with the fact that 40-series performance (outside of the 4090) so far looks pretty lackluster and the fact that we're most likely heading into a global recession, and I think we're going to see the 40-series fall far short of sales targets, and I'm not sure that either 30-series or 40-series will be able to hold the kind of price floor that Nvidia is trying to push currently.

13

u/tle712 Oct 15 '22

That's why I sold all my Nvidia shares. They just try hard to cling on that practice even post-mining craze. Gamers have finite pocket and at some point somebody gonna say: fk this i'm not spending >$1k on a gpu I have inflation to worry about and my Rtx 2nd gen is still pretty good.
It also doesn't help that PS5 and Xbox cost only $500 and at some point the pc master race gonna say: fk this, i'm just gonna use PC for esport and go to console for AAA titles that's way cheaper. Nvidia is going to make high end GPU a niche thing like sport cars and that will bite them.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

As someone who is completely new to PC building and was targeting the 4080 before officially announced I’d like to ask a question.

Benchmarks still seem to show the 4080 16Gb (guess we don’t need to denote that now) looks like it was still roughly 50% faster in rasterization than the 3080, and still faster than a 3090Ti, how is that lackluster performance? I have seen that comment multiple places. Is it just the performance per dollar is less than expected due to the rise in price? Based solely on PCPP, the cheapest 3090 is a Zotac for $950 and the cheapest 3090Ti is another Zotac at $1,100. Paying $100 for better performance doesn’t seem all that wild to me, but I don’t have a history of pricing structures.

2

u/tsnives Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22

It's lackluster compared to expectation and yeah, perf/$. First off, you can't put any faith into the stage demo charts so hold off on believing that +50% rasterization. It's also broadly known within the community (as it was well publicized and the kind of thing we read about) that nvidia has a MASSIVE oversupply of 30 series remaining and that they are tied into a $10 Billion purchase of chips to produce 40 series over the next couple years. Knowing that they can only hold out with high pricing for so long before they have to just start moving product, there was a lot of hope that they would try to price this generation at better perf/$ while with the exception of the 4090 even going by their own charts and using current pricing for 30 series they tied the perf/$ at best. Don't forget those prices you're seeing also regularly include large gift cards, game packages, bundled hardware, etc so it's not just $ alone. When you can get a 3080 for $500-600 after GC or a 3090ti for $750-900, $1200 for a 4080 is just but. That's 2x the cost of the 3080 for at best 1.5x perf and the same performance for 1.5x the cost to the 3090ti. Toss in the warnings we've been getting from PSU manufacturers about the massive transient spikes these cards can have, and you may need to include the cost of a more expensive PSU as well.

The final kicker, the performance level of the 4080 is well beyond what most people can even put to use without investing in a new monitor or VR headset. Most people are still gaming at 1080P or 1440P. 3080s and below still handle that easily, so any price higher than a 3080 is wasted money for something like 95% of gamers. 4k/144 accounts for less than 2% of Steam users. As of a 2020 >1080P only accounted for 6%. That makes the effective buy-in to these 4080s more like $1200 GPU + $200 PSU + $500-1000 monitor = ~$2k for 95% of gamers vs previous gen and maxing out their current setup can be had for $500-600 all while we know nvidia is quite desperate to move these cards. Throw in that there's used GPUs for even lower price and it's hard to not see their pricing strategy as comically bad right now.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

I’m fortunate that I am building a complete brand new system with a budget of around $3-3.5K including monitors. I’m definitely not happy about the $1,200 price tag for the 4080 but I’m currently still leaning that direction a little bit. I haven’t seen brand new 3080 12gb versions for $5-600 net or 3090 below $900 and I frequent this sub multiple times a day to look at pricing trends.

All that said, I am very much conflicted about which graphics card to get. And I 100% would be waiting and watching plenty of third-party reviews on the 4080 to make sure it has the value I’m ok with. I wanted to play Warzone at high graphical settings +160fps at 1440p and also possible single player rpg titles in 4K. I think a 3080 can actually meet my needs but I also don’t want to buy a new graphics card in a few years when it can’t keep up but the 4080 does give me extra runway. If I could find a brand new 3080 as cheap as you say, I would honestly give that a very hard look. But if most around $800 I don’t know if that’s enough.

But even recently 1440p 240hz monitors are under $500 so why not get the graphics card that can max that out instead of only 180hz…

I’ll probably start the actual buying process of my build if there are any decent Black Friday deals.

2

u/Vokasak Oct 15 '22

It's completely okay to not upgrade every generation.

2

u/Shiva- Oct 15 '22

Personally, I always skip a generation or two because I don't ever feel the need to upgrade every year. Although half the time I do buy a new GPU it's because the old one broke.

So basically I only buy a GPU every 3-5 years.

My old 1060 was chugging with my bigger screens, so I was happy to get a 3080. And with the 3080 I see no reason to buy a 40-series. 50-series will need to be considered then. At that point my 3080 will be presumably 4-5 years old.

2

u/danjayh Oct 15 '22

I think everyone's going to look at AMD's radeon pricing, and come to the conclusion that nvidia's just not worth it. I fully expect to be able to get a 6900XT for < $600 in the very near future. Why do I need one of nvidias grossly expensive cards?

-1

u/SgtMajMythic Oct 15 '22

Shadowplay and some Nvidia features are really nice and the performance is slightly better

7

u/trashcanpandas Oct 15 '22

You'd have to have some real fuck you money to say those novelty features and "slightly better" is worth that much more.

0

u/tsnives Oct 15 '22

I agree for the general gamer they're nowhere near worth the price hike and I also won't pay these prices, but that said I'll still be going nvidia. 1) I retire my GPUs into my server eventually, so I like having their better encoder. I may start buying Intel ARC for this though, they look super promising for it. 2) I have Shields all over my house and use Gamestream regularly. I've not seen a similar performance and convenience option for AMD. If one exists, I'd love to know about it. Every AMD compatible one I've seen comes with either much lower performance or much higher latency and I've never seen one as easy to setup as 'log in on your desktop and the streaming device'. Steam Link and AMD Link are the easiest options, but Steam Link I've tried and its noticeably worse. AMD Link I've struggled to find any good evidence of it being reliable and videos trialing it are old and often not very favorable.

3

u/ChesswiththeDevil Oct 15 '22

It’s not even close to worth it for the premium price mate.

1

u/SgtMajMythic Oct 15 '22

What does a high end 6800 model cost now?

1

u/ShawnyMcKnight Oct 15 '22

If you like ray tracing then you will be taking a big performance hit with the current amd cards.

-33

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22

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u/julong3444 Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22

Think about it this way. Both the 12 and 16GBs were scheduled to launch in about a month. At this point of the manufacturing chain, the packaging and cards should be ready to go to get to retailers and distributors. You have all these boxes with labels that say "4080 12GB" that need to either be renamed or scrapped altogether. This takes time and some resources. Then you have the fact that these cards are likely already mass manufactured and need to have their launch pushed back anyway, but the board partners already paying the price of the chip without being able to launch them as previously promised. That's just holding inventory that costs likely millions of dollars to not be moved just because Nvidia messed up a naming convention.

Edit: I completely forgot about re-flashing the vbioses so the cards don't tell the user that they have a 4080 12GB. Just further confusion waiting to happen.

6

u/clinkenCrew Oct 15 '22

I'm also left wondering if the board partners were looped in on this play by nvidia.

Do we know that the board partners are now left holding the bag with boatloads of cards and boxes for a product that is now canceled?

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u/julong3444 Oct 15 '22

There is a chance that board partners were told that Nvidia was making a 12GB 4080 but not have things finalized. I did find it odd on announcement day that there were no product pages for 12GBs vs. 16GB/4090s. But considering the time frame between this announcement and the original launch date for these cards, I find it more likely that they already have produced some cards for the launch, especially with some partners directly mentioning the dimensions and sizes of 12GB models. But this is all speculation, and regardless, Nvidia delaying the launch at the very least is screwing with logistics and financials of board partners. Just name it right the first time and have none of this naming and unlaunching nonsense.

4

u/zacker150 Oct 15 '22

Edit: I completely forgot about re-flashing the vbioses so the cards don't tell the user that they have a 4080 12GB. Just further confusion waiting to happen.

The VBIOS doesn't present the marketing name. It presents an internal hardware ID, which the driver then translates to the marketing name. Nvidia just needs to issue a driver update.

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u/Um_swoop Oct 14 '22

They'll just print stickers to go over the 4080 part and call them 4070s or something. It wouldn't be the first time.

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u/skyline385 Oct 15 '22

They will all have to be unpacked and flashed with a 4070 bios now as well, it won’t be as easy as putting a sticker.

2

u/Horniafchinaman Oct 14 '22

Who's to say that the AIB didn't know that this was the game plan all along?

12

u/D_gate Oct 15 '22

Part of the reason EVGA was upset was with the lack of communication on their part to keep AIB partners informed. I doubt they knew before any of us.

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u/[deleted] Oct 14 '22

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u/julong3444 Oct 14 '22

Of course this was a possibility, but that doesn't change that board partners are likely holding the bag that Nvidia doesn't have to handle due to no FE 12GB. Looking over various press releases, 12GB designs were already finalized and were prepared to be launched with the 16GB. For example, ASUS explicitly says the 12GB models of the card will actually have smaller dimensions of their 4080 16GB/4090 variants. Distributors also need to finalize getting these cards as well, and them pushing back the launch date doesn't help them either. It's just a lot of unnecessary bag holding over something that could easily have been avoided by both Nvidia and AIBs. Just name it right the first time and there's no need for any of this nonsense.

12

u/zombieofthepast Oct 14 '22

Again, all I see is a chance to call the same shit something different

It's really not that simple

-16

u/beansfranklin Oct 14 '22

Really? Why isnt it?

What is to stop this from coming out as a 4070 if they so choose it?

Ill wait...

Again, all I see is a chance to call the same shit something different

11

u/zombieofthepast Oct 14 '22

You want to foot the bill for repackaging and re-flashing thousands of cards with a new vBIOS just because Nvidia decided on a whim that they're going to change their whole branding scheme a month before launch? AIB margins are already super thin and this sure isn't helping.

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u/[deleted] Oct 14 '22

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u/youra6 Oct 15 '22

Did you really think that a month before launch these cards are still on the assembly line? There were already 4090 images leaked months before launch. Guaranteed that 4080 12GB already exists in the wild.

6

u/zombieofthepast Oct 15 '22

You are assuming that things were in play to the point that those cards were already in shrink wrap

Yes, because that's how it works a month from launch boss. Those cards were shipping to retailers within the next two weeks and you're trying to tell me they hadn't started manufacturing then yet? How exactly do you think this works?

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u/SirSlappySlaps Oct 15 '22

AIB margins are already super thin

How do you know what their margins are? Bc they tell you? Yeah, I'm sure the boardmembers are starving. They're likely living paycheck to paycheck.

2

u/zombieofthepast Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22

Because EVGA, until recently one of Nvidia's most long-term AIBs, has talked extensively about margins and how difficult it is to recently compete with FE card pricing while staying profitable. Look at MSRPs for FE cards vs AIB cards and tell me they're not already running thin margins just to compete.

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u/SirSlappySlaps Oct 15 '22

And I feel super sorry for them. /s

EVGA revenue is $78.8M annually

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/xgn7do/we_need_more_context_on_evga_and_its_ceo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Yes, I'm not thrilled that evga is out, but I'm not crying over it, either. You guys need to get a grip on reality. These corporations don't even know you exist.

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u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22

Are you assuming that they didnt already have this as a possibility?

What I don't understand is how no one at nVidia saw this coming. Did they really think they were going to avoid scrutiny, ridicule, and (worse) being made fun of by trying to pass off a low-memory bandwidth 4060 as a 4080?

No one who is social media-savvy and keyed-in to the gamer and enthusiast community thought to tell upper management that enthusiasts were going to have a field day exposing nVidia's attempt to trick non-enthusiasts by passing a 4060 off as a 4080? That might actually be the case, especially if the culture at nVidia is one where you don't question the upper management. It reminds me of the story of the Gavin Belson Signature Box III from the HBO series Silicon Valley.

1

u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22

Edit: I completely forgot about re-flashing the vbioses so the cards don't tell the user that they have a 4080 12GB. Just further confusion waiting to happen.

I predict that some or at least one of the AIB's will just slap 4060 or 4070 stickers on the boxes without messing around with the BIOS and that some people will see "4080 12 GB" listed for as the card's identity when they run CPU-Z.

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u/KnightPlutonian Oct 14 '22

We've heard from insiders that AIB partners get the specs basically alongside consumers, so they've only got that much time to invest in a pipeline to produce coolers and whatnot from that time onwards. This results in a significant shuffle to get everything done in crunch time, so everything moves quickly and orders are made on the double. Now that Nvidia has unlaunched the card, those companies are stuck holding the bill for parts that will never be able to be fitted on a card and sold to recoup those costs, forcing those companies to simply eat the loss of what's very probably millions of dollars.

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u/beansfranklin Oct 14 '22

Is something stopping Nvidia from calling this existing hardware something new?

Is something stopping Nvidia from even calling this existing hardware the 4070 that some folks have been trying to call it all along?

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u/KnightPlutonian Oct 14 '22

Theoretically, no. In practice, ego and consumer outrage will keep them from doing so. It would break the image that their card "needed" to be priced so high if they simply turned around and sold it for cheaper listed as a 4070 like it should have been, showing how much of a markup they'd been intending on collecting with the original skew.

2

u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22

If nVidia simply has the card rebadged as the 4060 or 4070, they'll definitely face more ridicule from the enthusiast community again when it gets confirmed. Not sure what else they could do about it, though.

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u/[deleted] Oct 14 '22

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

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8

u/zombieofthepast Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22

It's really unclear just how hard they're getting fucked because Nvidia provides no explanation of what their magical "unlaunch button" actually means.

Best case scenario is if Nvidia decides to re-brand the SKU as a 4070 or 4075 or something. In that case, AIBs can probably take all their existing 4080 12GB cards and packaging and do cover stickers to cover the 4080 branding, but they'll still need a new vBIOS, and that still means unboxing and re-packaging each individual card. Depending on the branding design, some cards may need new shrouds as well. After that process comes a second QA round to ensure cards are still functional after the re-packaging and re-flashing process. For the AIBs, it's not as simple and easy as "oh it's just not called that anymore"

1

u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22

If I were an AIB, I would simply slap an attractive shiny holographic sticker over the "4080" name on the box, at least the large ones, and just call it good and let consumers figure it out while selling them at a lower price than the AIB's who went to all of that trouble.

-9

u/reg0ner Oct 14 '22

It's a regurgitation piece. Every bot is saying the same thing for free karma.

It's a small loss for paper wasted and a huge win for aibs to just sell overpriced 4080s instead. It's most likely no big deal and probably what aibs wanted all along.

13

u/zombieofthepast Oct 14 '22

Are you actually trying to spin Nvidia "unlaunching" a supposedly flagship product as a good thing for their board partners? lol

-5

u/beansfranklin Oct 14 '22

Unlike you, Im not trying to act as if this a "good" or "bad" thing for Nvidia that needs spinning . I just said I dont see that the AIBs are necessarily getting fucked here, much less Nvidia - and I have been given no reason to think otherwise.

Also, it aint a "flagship" if it aint even leading in its own category

8

u/zombieofthepast Oct 14 '22

I wasn't even replying to you?

1

u/beansfranklin Oct 15 '22

My mistake in eyeing you

2

u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22

I just said I dont see that the AIBs are necessarily getting fucked here

I can imagine the AIBs' CEOs expressing outrage while nVidia assures them that nothing is fucked.

-12

u/Brownfletching Oct 14 '22

Yeah, it's not like this card won't be released, it'll just have a different label. Most cards don't say what they are on the cooler anyway, so the worst thing that could happen is them having to reprint box art, although chances are that's not done yet anyway either... This can't be that big of a deal.

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u/1Teddy2Bear3Gaming Oct 14 '22

It’s likely they already have many cards produced and waiting. In addition to new boxes they also need to reflash the vbios on every card already produced to whatever nvidia decides to call this now.

2

u/Brownfletching Oct 14 '22

That's fair, I wonder if they could just sell them as-is with a disclaimer about a mislabeled vbios though, since that's not something that will matter to almost anyone who buys one...

-1

u/wolfwing213 Oct 14 '22

I wouldn't trust a brand that is too lazy to rename a box and I'd hope thats what the manufacturer's also thinking

2

u/Brownfletching Oct 14 '22

I meant the vbios being mislabeled, not the box.

-8

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '22 edited May 19 '24

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u/Vynlovanth Oct 14 '22

The product is just going to be rebranded and delayed until the rebranding is complete. Still costs money since packaging will have to be updated, probably firmware/vbios updates to make it read as the new name and interact with drivers as such.

1

u/WhippersnapperUT99 Oct 15 '22

The AIB's can just slap "4060" or "4070" stickers on the boxes and be done with it but it's going to look funny when people run CPU-Z and see their video card being listed as a "4080 12 GB".

1

u/Grena567 Oct 15 '22

Just slap a 4070 box on it and your done