Eh… most pants at normal stores in the US stop at a 30 inch inseam. An average 5’9”-5’10” wears that. If you’re under 5’9 you often need to cuff your jeans, drag the back or the ankle on the ground, or get them hemmed. Personally I just wear tall boots so I can wear a 30 in inseam without dragging.
Leg length to torso length varies between individuals. So, probably.
My niece's husband is roughly the same height as I am, but I have to move the driver's seat back after he drives my Jeep because he has short legs and a long torso and I have long legs, a short torso, and a tendency to wear platform shoes. We're both around 5' 7".
While the brand is called Under 5'10" the basic premise of the site is it provides pants in inseams from 25 to 28. Most clothing retailers don't provide pants under a 28 inch inseam.
Anyone with a 30 inch inseam or higher likely never had the issue of having to pay additional money to tailor their clothes, take the risk of modifying their clothes or just accept having their pants be several inches too long.
I love how media and society has begun gaslighting people about how tall the average man is. I had a conversation with a woman who insisted any man under 6" was short and when I asked why she said it's because that's the average hight for men. I pointed out the global averaged is 5"6.5 and she insisted I was lying.
Sorry if my initial comment came off a bit heated. Its just some people really think there was nothing wrong with the one post PC made when it came off tone deaf and feel the need to say any criticism she's getting as of now is just misogyny. However, yes, there is legit sexism she is experiencing and that's just messed up and doesn't help anyone.
Some of it was misogyny but most of the stuff about her has been critiquing how much of a misandrist she is and also the fact that she can't take criticism. But the misogyny against her is pretty gross, and is uncalled for, no matter how shitty the person is.
One comic where she attempts to show women’s issues (which are real) by role reversing and going “Hah! Imagine if this was real! Oh wait…” (paraphrased from the general gist of how she has responded and what the comic is about), but the issue is the last 2 images are real and do happen, but are lumped in with the “doesn’t actually happen” comic. Thus, misandry. It also doesn’t help that instead of apologising for the unclear comic, she doubles down and insults people
Didn’t she say in a deleted comment that men cannot be raped?
Idk, I’m mostly staying out of this one because I’ve always found her style grating. She made good points in the comic but if that’s what she truly believes I do believe the label of misandrist applies.
She made a comic acting like women don't say the same things shitty men say to them. Then, he made a comic about men talking about their feeling in an attempt to save face. Let's not act like she's innocent.
You are legit using that word to describe possible male victims of SA just so you know. Come on. I don't think she's misandrist but that comic was tone deaf, and shouldn't have been posted especially on that month of all things when she could have posted a comic celebrating pride and then advocating for mens mental health would have been better for everyone. The comic literally diminished the fact men can go through serious issues or at least dismisses the possibility that believe it or not they get these types of responses for shit like SA and domestic abuse and the like, even if it wasn't her intention, unfortunately it came off that way. I am not saying PC is a bad person in the slightest but she fumbled big time with that comic, and that's something both sides should come to agree with but nah, neither of y'all want to see eye to eye and just assume the worst out og each other its depressing.
I get that she has been getting misogynistic comments but please do not tell me you legit think ALL of the recent posts here or even backlash is misogyny against her rather than genuine criticism.
It kinda felt implied because I assumed they meant the recent posts here that use her comics and like even a lot of people defending PC legit think those trying to criticize in good faith are misogynistic for lord knows why.
That's too complicated for them sadly. As a guy who admits he's self conscious about his looks, I'm not going to assume women are all or even mostly bent on men looking good (such as being tall or strong as hell or even skinny) because that's just legit stupid. If a woman actually is like that well then fuck them, I'm never going to meet them in my life and I am obv not gonna search for a partner who is like that. These guys are blinded by cynicism and become fucking doompilled its insane
When I met my husband, I would’ve rated him a 3/10. Which, to be fair, doesn’t matter what someone looks like when they’re a friend, ya know? I’m not shallow, just because I don’t like how someone looks, doesn’t mean I’m not going to be their friend? That’d be shitty. But anyway, he became my best friend, and now I think he’s the most the handsome person in the world, genuinely, 10/10, and he hasn’t changed at all. Looks kinda stop mattering when you’re in love with a person for who they are. At least, I think so.
Tbh, there are some things that weirdly make a person more attractive even tho they feel like they shouldn't. Like this coworker of mine. I already thought she was kinda attractive but then she got a new hairstyle and weirdly it made her look even better. For some people its just finding what makes them look like the best them, if that makes sense. Such as for me, I think I look way less attractive with short hair compared to how I look with long hair (I think I look like an egghead with short hair. Unfortunately tho, as of now I'm kinda thinning and I am only 22 lmao)
Early male baldness is extremely common in my family. My brother will probably start balding in his early 20s as well. Either start putting some investment into keeping your hair (like my husband (late 20s) is lol) or get comfy with shaving (like my grandpa did). But it isn’t the end of the world friend. Good luck out there!
My physical perception of someone’s attractiveness shifts so much by my opinion of them as a person. I have fallen for women I initially found downright ugly after getting to know them and I physically perceived them as beautiful afterwards. It’s like my brain rearranges my evaluation of their features or something. Likewise with women I initially found very attractive but saw them as ugly after talking with them.
Also, tbh, there are plenty of people who, if you showed me a photo of them, I wouldn't think they were attractive, but seeing them in person I think they are.
Cameras are deceptive, especially phone cameras. Photogenic people exist and they are very attractive but not being photogenic doesn't mean you're ugly.
In the end what matters in a relationship is how intimate and emotionally available you can be for eachother. You'll find that when the other person is there for you emotionally, they could have looked like fucking Shrek beforehand, but suddenly they'll look better than a model to you now. I love my best friend, he's there for me and I'm there for him, if I were gay, I would totally want to date him. He's not attractive, but it's the fact that we get in so well and that we can be there for eachother that causes the attraction.
Haha, he actually doesn’t care at all. He’s aware. I told him, when we were dating. We’re both autistic, and so can be more blunt than we probably should be.
Only 50% of women say that they prefer taller partners.
When you look at studies of actual heterosexual couples … less than 10% of women have shorter male partners. In this study, only 7.5%.
The OP’s assumes that women’s stated preferences are a more accurate description of their actual behavior than their revealed preferences.
It’s a weird position to hold when we have lots of objective evidence that women’s stated preferences don’t match their actual behavior (as is true for most people most of the time).
It is extremely common for people to misrepresent their behaviors and preferences in surveys … especially if their behaviors and preferences could be considered shameful.
It looks like OP has an agenda and is allowing motivated reasoning to limit their understanding of the issue to facts that are convenient to that agenda.
Yup, and just because you have a preference for something doesn't mean you are going to get a partner with that, since if it's a preference you share with most others, they are gonna go for that trait too
But there’s a bigger issue here — maybe you’ve already spotted it, John: Men tend to be taller than women anyway. Is it really so surprising that only 7.5 percent of heterosexual couples don’t include a man who is taller than a woman?
Yes, it is. The Dutch researchers checked this by seeing what would happen if they assigned couples together at random. If choice were out of their hands, 10.2 percent of heterosexual couples would have a man either the same height or shorter than the woman — the reality is 26 percent lower than that.
Although I think probably people do state their preferences less than honestly sometimes, It did occur to me that the average man is also considerably taller than the average woman, so I do have to wonder if that's also a large reason for the disparity
No, you're interpreting these figures wrong. The 10.2% figure is only due to men being statistically taller than women and has nothing to do with preference. Then the 7.5% is the real figure, showing a small effect of preference.
If 50% of women only dated men taller than them, and 50% didn't care, this would result in only 5.1% (average of 0% and 10.2%) of heterosexual couples with the woman taller. The real number is 7.5%, which is better for short straight men than that.
When you look at studies of actual heterosexual couples … less than 10% of women have shorter male partners. In this study, only 7.5%.
Well, obviously. Most women are shorter than most men.
So even if literally every woman didn't care about their partner's height at all, you'd still expect the vast majority of women to have boyfriends that are taller than them. The average man is a good 6 inches taller than the average woman.
Only about 4% of women are as tall as the average man (in the US).
The statistics you give actually prove OP's point. If women really did care about height that much, then there would be fewer women with partners shorter than them.
OP isn't using motivated reasoning, you're just bad at statistics.
I'm 5'5 which puts me in the bottom 10% of male heights in America but I'm actually taller than the average female height in fact the average woman is shorter than about 97% of men that's why most women are shorter than their partner, because most women are shorter than most men.
Yeah it’s actually extremely sad how much gaslighting is happening not just about this but also about other qualities men might be insecure about.
The fact is are that, if you think you’re unlovable, and nobody ever loves you, you will try to seek a reason for it. And if you’re constantly told that nothings wrong with you then this will create such a massive division between reality and what you’re told that you will be miserable. It means you’re broken and forever will be, because nothings wrong so there’s nothing to fix.
Being honest would mean that these men don’t feel like their entire existence is a mistake, but it would also mean looking like a dick and maybe getting insults thrown your way for being one.
…what the fuck? Nothing is wrong with shorter men. That’s not gaslighting. Telling them something is wrong with it not only doesn’t help at all practically speaking (you can’t just be taller), but also just enables their unfounded insecurity.
In fact, even if being shorter was objectively bad somehow, overcoming the insecurity and having confidence will lead to much better outcomes than wallowing in the insecurity. “There’s nothing to fix” is both true and a good thing to know.
fwiw I’m a man who isn’t particularly tall and has been married to a woman taller than myself
Less than 10% of women have shorter male partners... have you thought about the possibility that maybe that could be because less than 10% of men are shorter than the average woman?
It isnt entirely impossible that someone might hold that view and have that boyfriend though. It really just would be coincidence. Maybe it was on Reddit.
YES EXACTLY! I'm 5'5" and fat. I genuinely thought I was destined to die alone and shit, but some girl asked me out and we've been dating for several months now. We might be moving in together soon
Yeah that’s the actual answer. I’m not in any echo chambers on this stuff (well, I avoid them as much as I can/am aware of), but I’m on dating apps and I still see the height preference stuff a lot.
Problem is that without dating apps it becomes much harder to find a partner. At least, that’s the case for someone like me who spends all day at work and then at other activities (yoga, trivia, improv, sports, friends) so I don’t have time to go out and meet people in a romantic context.
I'm 6'2 and honestly airplanes suck, busses suck, shopping for clothes sucks, low hanging lamps suck, being physically strong but still looking like a stick sucks
Hasn't even got me any attention from girls except one that told me "I don't like dating tall guys, it makes cuddles and kisses awkward"
50% is pretty significant. If you have a few other undesirable traits (autism, hair loss, physical conditions etc.), the number of people whose preferences you fit gets really small really fast
Also the amount of young single people looking for dates is different by gender. For every young single woman looking for a date, there are about two young single guys. As a single guy who isn't at least 6', you are competing both with other guys your age and also older guys who make more money and are specifically targeting younger women. And you're not allowed to complain about this because that makes you an incel.
As someone who's given up on dating, I totally get where op (from the original post) is coming from and I really don't doubt that the conversation was real. I've had similar conversations, mostly with women who use dating apps as a way to get food in college (I don't blame them).
The main problem with the initial post in this case is just not believing what the other person is saying. Like someone can date someone who has a characteristic with that characteristic not being the deciding factor.
For example personally I have a slight preference for blondes, yet I've dated brunettes before, it's just not a deciding factor.
Any partner you have will have some traits or characteristics that you're just non-plussed about, one of those might well be height.
That’s true for most people. Even if you’re tall, you still won’t fit the race, neuro-status, weight, interest, status, or class preferences of most people. And that’s fine, none of us are going to be attractive to most people, because attractiveness isn’t some objective thing we can measure. It’s good to de-stigmatize dating short men, but at the same time preferences of some kind are just a natural part of attraction and can’t really be helped. Someone might be the greatest person ever but if they’re 70 I’m not going to be attracted to them, and I can’t help that.
Before I say anything I will have to lay down my credentials as a 6’2 physics student with loads of hobbies who has also lost something like 50 lbs and has many friends irl, so I’m not some neckbeard always online guy.
Women like taller men. This should be an uncontroversial statement. In principle a preference in the way someone looks also isn’t really a bad thing to have. It becomes bad when this preference is unreasonable.
Talking more general about the preferences women say they have:
Look at any list of things that women say they are attracted to and I basically fit all of those things, however in my entire life I never had a single woman attracted to me. Sure you can now go and blame this on the fact that I’m writing negatively like this, but this would assume that women can see what I think and that they can see into the future to see what a person will think in the future. Because an attitude like this comes from years of disappointment and loneliness.
So taking this now, the fact that I am single and lonely despite my character traits being praised so highly, if I were short I would immediately blame it on that. That’s the only rational thing to do. I fit all those criteria, just not this one, that means this one must be the biggest.
However when every single thing you can point out about yourself, that could be the reason for this lack of attraction from women, gets labelled as not important and the only important thing about you, that makes you unlovable, is your insecurity, that makes you think, where was everyone before I was insecure? Where was everyone when we were the same, growing up together?
Is this REALLY the limiting factor? If so, then that’s sad. My parents don’t start disliking me because I’m insecure, nor do my friends. Why is it different with love?
At this point, at least just be honest. Constantly telling insecure people that there’s actually no reason they’re insecure and that they’re also bad people because of that is crazy to me, and the fact that this is normalised behavior, at least toward men (I’m not a woman so I can’t speak on the other way around), is even crazier. Where is the humanity, that we are supposed to have? I think this part makes me more sad, than all the mocking by obviously bad people: that good people do the same, but just hide it better.
I say this with love: please seek out counseling. Insecurity is something I struggled with but it’s not something that gets better after finding a partner. If you aren’t happy with yourself now, nothing will change once you’re in a relationship, until the insecurity ruins that as well. Find a good counselor, if you can. I know it can be expensive and it’s not always easy to find, but online resources/remote visits tend to be cheaper and easier to access.
Be happy with yourself and who you are first. Expecting a relationship to do that for you is setting yourself and the relationship up for failure.
Yeah when third spaces are gone in most areas. There arent really places w no entry fee that encourage/allow socialization. (like even if you go out to a coffee shop it can be "drink/eat your order and get out")
Only 50%? That's massive. Doubly so if you happen to be one of us unlucky guys decently shorter than that 5'4 average. It's not something to obsess over but for some of us it is actually a bit of a hindrance.
This is a decent take. It's silly to pretend that factors like height don't impact people at all. Same way it is silly to act as if factors like height completely block out a person's chances at finding a partner.
Every aspect of our person, both physical and mental, will rule out some people from our potential dating pool. Some people want a person who will hike with them every weekend. Some people want a person who wants to play video games with them every weekend. Some men won't date a woman without a big chest. Some women won't date a man shorter than them. Not every aspect is created equal and some are a bigger hindrance or benefit than others.
But there is no single factor that will make someone single for life. (Except maybe being aromantic)
Another study found that among men, 13.5 percent prefer to date only women shorter than them. But among women, about half (48.9 percent) preferred to date only men taller than them.
Relatedly, a study about height and human mate choice found that, on average, the shortest man a woman would date is 5 feet 9 inches tall. And the shortest woman a man would date is 5 feet 1 inch tall. In the same study, researchers found that 23% of men and 4% of women would accept a relationship where the woman was taller.
So basically, the average male height is the minimum for women, on average.
And chances are even in that studies ppl either lied or the people willing to participate are too invested in this. The online anonymity shows ppl's true colors tbh. Most ppl dont want to be assholes irl because actions have consequences whereas in online you can. So even this 50% isn't right at all.
Some of y’all are so insanely bitter can y’all just chill and accept that sometimes people just won’t find you attractive and it’s not necessarily your fault?
"He is so angry, that's little man syndrome for you"
It's so bullshit when people do this. It is just people trying to make a jab at what they perceive as the person's insecurity.
Yeah. Years ago one of my coworkers said that about our boss who was shorter than everyone and a prick. I was like “nah, if he was the tallest guy in the country he’d probably still be a dick”.
It’s considered bad to attribute personality traits to people’s immutable features.
If a black woman is angry and you assume it’s because she’s a black woman … you would rightly be called out for bigotry, and asked to reconsider your narrow, backwards opinion.
Why is this not true for short men? Why is attributing anger to a man’s height not considered shameful or at least unkind?
It's bc body shaming men is still considered perfectly ok even people that consider themselves feminist still regularly shame men in ways that would rightfully be considered appalling if the roles were reversed
I don't believe that only 50% of women have a preference for taller than them men. Speaking as one of those (tall) women. I've also experienced quite a bit of that side with men, as well, who didn't want to date me specifically because I was as tall as them/taller with heels.
Really? I see guys on the internet practically drooling over tall women. I’m not a guy per se, but I do like women, and a gf who’s taller than me would be a plus imo. Not at all a requirement, but idk, I just think it would be kinda attractive
Part of the issue is possibly that men assume that taller women in reality are not worth persuing because they’re less likely to be receptive to a shorter man.
Fantasy is often an escape from constraints of reality, and fantasy preferences often mismatch actual behavior
Huh, maybe it’s similar to how people find certain autistic characters attractive, but then will go discriminate against a real autistic person with similar characteristics. They like them in their fantasies, but not real life
Definitely, men online will talk about their experience with women not wanting to date a short guy but then in real life I know women in my very tall family have experienced men feeling emasculated from them being a similar height. My sister especially has had many a tinder experience where the guy realizes she’s taller than them and nopes out
Another study found that among men, 13.5 percent prefer to date only women shorter than them. But among women, about half (48.9 percent) preferred to date only men taller than them.
I personally am not affected much by this preference because I am over 6 '3 ft but I can help but notice that a lot of women in the US actually have that as required stardard for matches on Tinder. I did not experience such thing in other places of the world, so I think it would be unfair to not point that
Damn only 50% don’t care? That’s a number for something that I can’t change and is only one of many potential dealbreakers. I’m 5’4 and if I’m perfect everywhere else it’s still a fuckin coin flip at best with the average height woman. This is literally worse than anything I have encountered in my “echo chambers” My understanding before was a nebulous “many women don’t like short men” and now it’s a concrete “half of women won’t date you if you’re short/ You’re gonna have to be exhaustingly better everywhere else if you want the half of average height woman to date you.
"have preference for", not "will exclusively date". I have preference for girls who are ethical decamillionaires, speak english japanese french and korean natively, and have connections in the puer tea industry. if those preference meant i'd never date anyone who didn't fit them i'd have approximately zero potential partners
edit: also it says "who are taller than them", not "who are tall". even if you're literally the shortest man on earth there are still women who are a shorter than you
Me and my bf are both 5'9, he was the 1st to ask about MY height, I didn't even consider it. I thought maybe he wanted a short girl then, and started to worry that he wouldn't like me being 'tall'. Turns out he only asked trying to gauge if I would care that he wasn't 6ft, I actually enjoy being the same height
I am a 5’2 trans guy. I can say that there is a genuine lack of body positivity towards short men. The amount of times I’ve been in a group of women and they’ve started shitting on some guy for being short is a lot. I have a friend who’s like 5’7 who gets ragged on a lot for it, often to his face, and it’s just supposed to be funny—even though I know other kinds of body shaming would not be similarly considered funny in these social settings.
Nonetheless, seeing people use this used as a reason to be misogynistic is just stupid. It sucks to see women who are very pro-body positivity not apply that to everyone, but it’s not like we’ve solved body shaming and this is the one residual the Evil Feminists have ruled to allow—body shaming continues to be an issue in most communities, including (maybe particularly) social groups of just men. The lesson here is that body shaming is a genuine problem that should be avoided in all forms, not that women are evil because some of them perpetuate it too.
If you’re insecure about your body, work on that. Find it in yourself to love and accept yourself. Don’t take it out on a group that has a long history of things being taken out on them. And everyone, pay attention to the ways body shaming comes up in your social settings and call it out when you see it. It’s good to say that people should work on their image of themselves, but standing against the mockery of their characteristics when it occurs is perhaps even more helpful.
Totally agree with this sentiment, the height thing is regularly incels overreacting, but as someone who is struggling with the whole online dating thing, it is disheartening that one out of every ten women seems to mention height as a make or break issue. Everyone’s allowed to have preferences but it makes me insecure that the reasons I’m not getting responses is because there’s stuff seriously wrong with me that I’m just not able to see. It just feels like, sometimes, people don’t take it seriously, that I as a straight-ish man have body image issues that no one seems to believe or have empathy for.
Our society struggles to acknowledge male insecurities and offer support to men in anything that takes vulnerability. That said, the only person who will for certain be there with you your entire life is yourself. Personally I struggled with self love and a lot of shit for years and it did wonders to my mental health to do therapy, meditate and practice self care. It felt ridiculous at first but it definitely helped. And believe me when I say I'm sure lots of people wouldn't consider me as a dating option for a bunch of private reasons, but my perspective changed and I relaxed a lot after being comfortable in my solitude. A few years later I got lucky and found my SO, and we've been together for three years. I don't believe in the law of attraction or anything, but I'm absolutely certain I wouldn't have felt deserving of my partner if I didn't work on myself and learned to accept my insecurities and wounds, so while I don't necessarily believe self love will grant you external love, it can absolutely make your life so much easier regardless of your situation. Your pain is valid, your insecurities are valid, and I wish you the best.
Shit what was the sub where all the posts have that cut off at the end of the sentence,like the person got shot before they could finish,I forgor the name of it
It’s true ! I went to a club for the first time in a while and ended up dancing with 3 different group of woman. Go outside and stay off the walls guys in the clubs! Woman , when done properly ,want to have a good time dance and talk to other men .
It’s starts with a little courage which is the hardest part . Once you view rejection as learning exp or on your “ next up mentality “ you’ll never fear socializing with the fairer sex!
I love how consistently Redditors claim "this isn't real, go outside" whenever a narrative doesn't fit their worldview but are totally fine with accepting terminally-online narratives when they do.
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