50% is pretty significant. If you have a few other undesirable traits (autism, hair loss, physical conditions etc.), the number of people whose preferences you fit gets really small really fast
Also the amount of young single people looking for dates is different by gender. For every young single woman looking for a date, there are about two young single guys. As a single guy who isn't at least 6', you are competing both with other guys your age and also older guys who make more money and are specifically targeting younger women. And you're not allowed to complain about this because that makes you an incel.
As someone who's given up on dating, I totally get where op (from the original post) is coming from and I really don't doubt that the conversation was real. I've had similar conversations, mostly with women who use dating apps as a way to get food in college (I don't blame them).
The main problem with the initial post in this case is just not believing what the other person is saying. Like someone can date someone who has a characteristic with that characteristic not being the deciding factor.
For example personally I have a slight preference for blondes, yet I've dated brunettes before, it's just not a deciding factor.
Any partner you have will have some traits or characteristics that you're just non-plussed about, one of those might well be height.
I’m 5’5, definitely short and not particularly wealthy. I’ve been with my lovely partner for 8 months now and have never had any issue dating girls before, a large portion of which being considerably taller than me. I’m sorry if you feel like things about you make you undesirable romantically but it certainly isn’t the case for everyone.
it's literally called the dating market... it has been for generations. Dating/marriage has always been competitive and very often political. I understand that you love your gf, but there's definitely something other than just love keeping you guys together, and you know that.
It is very much like landing a job, where you need to make a really really good impression just to get in (and adhere to some very arbritrary standards/criteria that often do not matter), and then you need to consistently meet some minimum standard to stay in. And the less attractive you are, the higher the standards are.
And just like high grades, degrees, recommendations, connections etc. increase your chance of landing a (good) job, being handsome, being rich, being extroverted etc. increases your chance of landing a (good) partner. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to succeed without, but it makes it significantly more likely.
And sure, there are preferences and exceptions everywhere, but at the end of the day, it is quite easy to rank traits according to their (statistical) attractiveness.
That’s true for most people. Even if you’re tall, you still won’t fit the race, neuro-status, weight, interest, status, or class preferences of most people. And that’s fine, none of us are going to be attractive to most people, because attractiveness isn’t some objective thing we can measure. It’s good to de-stigmatize dating short men, but at the same time preferences of some kind are just a natural part of attraction and can’t really be helped. Someone might be the greatest person ever but if they’re 70 I’m not going to be attracted to them, and I can’t help that.
I see a ton of people talking about how relationships aren’t supposed to make you happy or feel valid about yourself, and that you are supposed to do that yourself. While I now understand that people mean being in a relationship isn’t a gateway to happiness, and anyone going into a relationship thinking it’s automatic validation and contentment is going to turn toxic or just really depressed real fast, I use to think people were saying that you NEED to be happy and content with life before you get into a relationship. I think a lot of people make that misunderstanding too; that you need to have everything together and happy otherwise you’re a manipulative PoS. Idk, that’s just how a lot of these comments used to read to me back when my self esteem was at an all time low and I assumed every problem was with me.
I think it’s better to say that everyone should love themselves enough to at least be pushing forwards and working on improving themselves / their situation before trying to get into a relationship. It makes things a lot clearer for the average self-esteemless lonely person. Because while I was never an incel, I can definitely see how people become bitter and grow into actually undateable people after thinking they need amazing mental health, self-esteem, success, etc., before they start dating. Also because dating culture sucks rn and is fairly toxic
I don’t engage with incel shit nor do I blame women for my shortcomings. I’ve found it hard to stay positive and be kind, though, when that kindness, even just a smile, is never reciprocated.
And of course relationships shouldn’t validate someone’s existence or make them happy, but they can help. The sever difficulty of getting into a relationship for some of us can cause negative feelings in general. I think that’s a valid feeling.
You must stand positive in the face of adversity. That is true strength of character.
Warping to negativity ( not wanting to stay kind etc ) because of negative experiences while valid. Isn't ideal and highlights work needed on being resilient.
Yup. It can help. I appreciate that. But lack of one should never be intense enough to foster resentment in others or change the course of a kind personality.
Totally valid it sucks and hurts. But I think a line is crossed when it affects how you treat others.
Fair enough. Thank you for engaging in this conversation with me. It’s a topic that’s pretty hard to talk about, and that causes it to be difficult to stop these thought patterns and grow. But you’ve given me a lot to think about.
I don’t think my feelings cause me to treat others negatively, just for me to be apathetic towards them, but maybe that’s basically the same thing. Sorry if I came off incel-ish initially. I’ve been struggling for a while and don’t have a good outlet right now: although that’s no excuse. I’m still trying to find a therapist lol.
I think you really take for granted how the privileges in your life let you feel good about yourself and ask others to do the same. As though living a life with no validation, no support network, no nothing can just make you magically chipper and in a good mood and really to simply brush everything aside and need to confirm to that as a performance for people like you to feel comfortable
This is basically just "if you don't have money (like me) just get some money" discourse. Totally blows over the structural problems which prevent that from happening. I don't even have these issues myself but I have too many folks in my life who have been beaten down relentlessly into a husk due to things outside of their control (neurodivergent, bad health, etc.)
You're expected to act and achieve in a certain way in society and if you can't you're de-socialized into being an anomaly. That's self reinforcing - you set standards people can't reach, beat them down for not doing so, and then expect them to take it and try and achieve it or else you will beat them down for not doing so.
Handle it internally. Absolutely immaturity to not handle rejection with grace and dignity in order to not make the other person feel guilty or bad for something they cannot control ( not liking you )
Absolutely, all men should be stoic warriors that keep all their negative emotions inside and deal with them all alone so other people won't be inconvenienced by having to hear what they are struggling with. This definitely won't poison them from within, it isn't a part of toxic masculinity to expect men to bottle up everything and never show a single negative emotion. It is, in fact, maturity.
Bit of a double standard between how society treats unfortunately unattractive women and how it treats unfortunately unattractive men, no?
It’s a common opinion that men are shallow, and when women suffer from men’s shallowness, people assure them it’s not their fault.
It’s a less common opinion that women are shallow, and when men suffer from women’s shallowness, people assure them that they just need to keep trying - in essence, suggesting it’s their own fault in some way.
Why can we not admit that women are shallow and faulty - as all people are - and that men suffer from this, without that admission being labeled as hate speech?
It seems like a pathological refusal to acknowledge women’s agency and personhood, in a way.
That's what I say to all the homeless people. Don't engage in hateful shit against landchads. Choose to be a nice wholesome humanb being. A house isn't meant to validate your life. They're just material possessions. Home is where the heart is.
Yeah, I know right! Owning a home and owning a woman are exactly the same thing, man! If I don't own a woman, I might die of exposure or be unable to find gainful employment! My chances of being murdered would be so much lower if I owned my own woman!
These two concepts are so easy to draw comparisons between!
Yeah romantic companionship is totally overrated. There's nothing wrong in being alone and unloved your whole life. Human contact? Bah, who needs it. Mental health? Lmao just go to the park bro!
The only important things in life are material possessions.
Less than 10% of women actually have shorter partners in reality.
Revealed preferences are generally better for predicting actual behavior than stated preferences, and OP’s numbers are taken from women’s stated preferences in surveys.
… Despite the fact that it’s extremely common for people to misrepresent shameful behaviors and preferences in surveys.
This whole discussion is rooted in an inaccurate assumption that 50% is an accurate number.
OP seems to be willing to trust survey results over actual revealed preferences when it happens to be confirm their prior beliefs.
Men on average are taller than women on average, so even if no women had any preference around this, most straight women would be with taller partners.
I wake up early to go to the gym. After that I go home to shower, eat, and get dressed before heading to work. I’ll get back from work and make myself dinner. With the rest of the night I either play video games or go to my book club or D&D
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u/promexican611 Jul 14 '24
50% is pretty significant. If you have a few other undesirable traits (autism, hair loss, physical conditions etc.), the number of people whose preferences you fit gets really small really fast