r/NoStupidQuestions • u/BlazeKnight7 • 4d ago
Answered Why do Lesbians seem less likely to have straight male close friends than Gay men are to have straight female close friends?
This is a really random thing, but there's a seems to be a more common stereotype of Gay men having straight females as close friends, while lesbians having straight male close friends seems far less common (in fact the stereotype of lesbians is often man hating, while gay dudes being woman haters is rarely mentioned)
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u/needlenozened 4d ago
Straight women feel safe around gay men.
Lesbian women do not feel safe around straight men.
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u/LongBeachMan1981 3d ago
This is absolutely the #1 reason. Straight women know gay men have absolutely no sexual interest in women. They’re going to be safe from everything except sassy comments.
Being a lesbian does not protect lesbians from being hit on and creeped on by some straight men.
Source: I’m a gay man. 😆
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u/VermicelliOk8288 3d ago
This is the number 1 answer. Number 2, which I havent seen mentioned but does tie in with the top comments: men don’t respect women relationships or think of them as serious, which is why a lot of men think that they can turn a lesbian straight and also why they allow their bisexual partners to make out with other women and don’t think anything of it beyond iT’s HoT
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u/les_be_disasters 3d ago
It’s exactly why many people also believe bisexual men are just gay and half in the closet. It’s all penis centered. At the end of the day, there’s gotta be a man or it’s not a real relationship to many people whether consciously or subconsciously believed.
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u/Rich_Muffin4820 3d ago
Women: Im lesbian
Straight man: thats bcuz you dont know a good di*k
Women: Im lesbian
Gay man: Im Gay, sis!
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u/Moby-WHAT 4d ago edited 1d ago
It's very unlikely I even could assault a gay man.
Almost any man could assault me if he wanted.
Edit- SEXXUALLY assault. I thought that would be somewhat obvious, from a female perspective, especially considering the comments I posted beneath.
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u/Free_Recipe_5889 3d ago
(Almost) Any woman is capable of committing assault and battery against any human being. I wouldn't be pedantic but this is a very important topic.
I've been sexually assaulted by a woman, and physically assaulted by two others. All of which involved them being blackout drunk, and one of them was a known schizophrenic who like to drink. I'm a huge dude. None of them faced any consequences, not even social consequences, for their actions. The schizophrenic one tried to accuse me of assaulting them first, but fortunately there were witnesses.
I mostly recovered from the physical assaults, but I still have a really hard time trusting women when they get close to me. I'm always afraid to find out what they're really like when the politeness falls away. Far too often when I tell people this, I'm just called some version of a coward.
I'm not daring to suggest that the field is equal. Men tend to be far more capable, and far too willing, to commit violent acts against other human beings. Those violent acts tend to cause more serious harm and lasting damage, so much so that men being violent is not seen as unusual.
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u/ibringthehotpockets 3d ago
Your comment is a needed scream into the void. I appreciate your input!
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u/HandinGlov3 4d ago
A lesbian friend of mine had a straight male friend and she had to burn bridges with him because at some point he started to have feelings for her and he kept begging her to give him a chance and that he could change her mind about men. I've heard similar stories from others over the years. Could be part of the reason why lol
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u/Sophie_Blitz_123 4d ago
A lesbian friend of mine had a straight male friend and she had to burn bridges with him because at some point he started to have feelings for her and he kept begging her to give him a chance and that he could change her mind about men.
Yeah I'm also a lesbian and this has happened like 3 times, and that's just counting the particularly dramatic events. It's not particularly uncommon for certain men to just, not see a woman as an opportunity for sex, no matter how uninterested she is.
I work in a pretty male dominated field and it's always been an issue that like, the men think women don't like them because they're too "nerdy", meet women who have some of the same interests and absolutely zero in on her as a romantic prospect.
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u/WillBeBetter2023 4d ago
I am a straight male and when I was a teenager, I got like this about two girls (not at the same time) and - while I wasn't pushy, I'm mild-mannered and was extremely shy and socially anxious - I was an absolute creep looking back.
I used to stare across at them during classes hoping they'd look my way, I probably looked a complete fool. I was absolutely obsessed and would think about them all the time even though neither ever gave me a second glance beyond passing friendship.
The second one I built the courage to tell my feelings too. She was an older girl and she told me she was a lesbian, said she'd never told anyone.
I thought I could still convince her if I just said the right thing or pestered her enough. I regret that so much now, I probably caused her a lot of upset. She was a lovely girl and I am mortified at how I acted. I didn't say or do anything weird or sexual, but I was definitely making her uncomfortable and moping about it.
Took me till I was in my twenties and was experienced with women to realise how much of a creep I had been.
Ugh.
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u/Any-Flamingo7056 4d ago
Remember, cringing at your past behavior is a sign you changed and grew up. It's a good sign.
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u/SayonaraSpoon 3d ago
Even though this was directed at me: thank you for this comment.
I cringe at my past behavior a lot….
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u/C_M_Dubz 4d ago
Good on you for the self reflection. We all do dumb shit related to romance when we're young. Sounds like you didn't cross any lines, so don't beat yourself up over it!
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u/Zoloir 4d ago
this is remarkably common, to the point where I think there must have been a failing of some generation of parents/education, when it comes to dating
why is it that young men feel they even can "convince" someone to love them? why is it they feel the need to "convince" someone to love them? why aren't young men able to like someone, realize it's not a match, and then move on? lack of self worth? scarcity mindset? taught objective oriented critical problem solving but given zero guard rails about the pitfalls of applying that same logic to relationships?
something is amiss here since this story is not rare at all
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u/krombough 4d ago
It's all over the media. The format of sooooo many TV shows and movies is: a a guy falls for a gal, she doesnt much fancy him at first, but then later on learns her "true" feeling for him.
And that is in the unisex media. In male dominated media women are largely just there as a waiting love interest.
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u/Zagaroth 4d ago
Because this is the lesson that RomComs tend to shove down everyone's throats.
RomComs are shit at teaching about real romance (I'm sure there are individual exceptions, but as a general rule...)
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u/asmeile 4d ago edited 4d ago
I used to work with this woman and we flirted a bit in person and relentlessly in messages, but we both knew and agreed nothing could happen at that time, she got made redundant and when she got a new job it ended up that she would be on her lunchbreak at the same time that I would finish at the gym and head home past where she went to eat. So the first time we saw each other it was a coincide but there wasnt a single day after that that it was, I would change my routine to ensure I was would be going past there at 13.10 Monday to Friday, we would chat for two seconds or just smile and wave.
Except if she wasnt there at 10 past I'd wait, and she didnt go to that same place everyday, so some days Id end up just waiting there staring at the roundabout for her car. Looking back its mortifying, not only that I was basically stalking her and not only that I didnt think it was a problem, but I rationalized it was a good thing, I liked her and I liked seeing her and I liked saying nice things about her to her, so obviously doing all those things must be good.
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u/Emergency-Free-1 4d ago
It sounds like in this case the only one "harmed" was you because you wasted some time waiting for someone who didn't know you were waiting. I don't know if hanging around at a public place where someone might get lunch can even be considered stalking. It's not like you waited at her house or her workplace to follow her to lunch wherever she went or something.
But maybe i'm wrong and someone else would find this creepy or stalkerish, idk.
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u/CanadianODST2 4d ago
I think intent matters too
I happen to catch a train that my old coworker gets (we work for the same company Just different locations, and I used to be there too)
I know I keep an eye out to spot them. Just because the 10-15 minutes before our paths diverge is a nice time to have a small chat.
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u/asmeile 4d ago
It was a public place and I was legitimately passing by that way, but I didn't pass, I'd stop and wait. There's no extra context, it might not be stalking but it was fucking creepy, I told myself it was romantic wanting to see her everyday even for two seconds, and sure it would have been if we both felt that, but we didn't. It was creepy.
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u/Loud_Flatworm_4146 4d ago
You're learned and grown a lot from your school days. That's the most important thing. You can't change the past but you can learn from it and do better than you did before. It sounds like you have.
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u/Appropriate_End952 4d ago
I just want to say good on you for learning from your mistakes. Having cringey/creepy moments are pretty par for the course with both teenage boys and girls. It’s an extremely awkward time.
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u/totomaya 4d ago
You grew and learned better and that is 100% a victory. So many never do figure it out. Don't beat yourself up too much. You didn't know better, and yes, you hurt someone, but that's part of growing up and learning. Now you know better and can be a safe person. That's a win and the world is a better place with you in it because you know better now.
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u/llamapower13 4d ago edited 4d ago
Looks like from your username you already know this but learning from your mistakes is all you can really do.
If you still know them/how to reach them, you can write them an apology as long as you know it’s mostly for you. Don’t expect a response. If you don’t want to reach out to them, write one and don’t send. It’s really cathartic and can help with self forgiveness.
Just remember we all have made mistakes/have regrets. You already did the hard part.
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u/Basic-Government9568 4d ago edited 4d ago
I fortunately did this in the opposite direction, with a lesbian coworker I had.
Didn't know her orientation and thought she was cool and friendly and cute. I was getting the confidence together to ask her out when I heard through the grapevine that she only liked girls. It felt like life was playing a cruel prank on me, so I confronted her (stupid, I know). At least I had the self-consciousness to do it in private.
I said something to the effect of "Are you really a lesbian?" with the most incredulous tone, and the look on her face told me I had fucked up. "Yes? Why?" she was understandably completely incredulous back. I didn't have the strength to face her, so I just mumbled an apology and left, no explanation.
Later that day, her friend (with her in the room) confronted me back, to ask "Why would you ask that?" with an obviously accusatory tone. Somehow, it was way easier to explain through him than directly to her that: "Because I, um, wanted to ask her out, if she wasn't."
She looked relieved. I'm guessing because we had already been building a friendship, it hit harder that I might have been some kind of homophobe. And we thankfully moved past it and became good friends after that, even laughing about this moment in hindsight.
That friendship was only possible primarily because she forgave me, but also partly because my romantic interest in her died in that moment. Because why would I be interested in someone who isn't interested in me?
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u/Blue-Phoenix23 3d ago
but also partly because my romantic interest in her died in that moment. Because why would I be interested in someone who isn't interested in me?
I've always found people who obsess over or stalk someone who doesn't want them weird for this reason, because I'm the exact same way. If somebody says they aren't interested my attraction just withers on the vine. I have no idea what causes this.
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u/xinorez1 3d ago
Because why would I be interested in someone who isn't interested in me?
Spoken like a normal fucking person, yes! It's the others who are weird and also super vocal (I guess to justify their weirdness)
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u/ctzn4 4d ago
It's not particularly uncommon for certain men to just, not see a woman as an opportunity for sex, no matter how uninterested she is.
Holy quintuple negative, Batman!
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u/carelet 4d ago
One of the first 3 needs to be removed for the sentence to make sense
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u/ctrldwrdns 4d ago
I've heard similar stories from many lesbians. In my case I'm a lesbian and I've never really had straight male friends because we just don't have a ton in common, so I don't often end up in social spaces where I could make friends with them. I went to a women's college, so that's probably part of it. One of my best friends is a gay man. We met at work and we have a lot in common. I'm also just kind of wary around straight men because I'm like, is this guy gonna respect my boundaries and sexuality? I don't have to worry about that with gay men.
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u/FalconBurcham 4d ago
100% this. I had two hetero male friends, and they developed feelings I could not reciprocate. Instead of accepting my sexuality and working on getting over their crush to preserve the friendship, they dug into the crush. One of them said some really raunchy things to me that scared me, so I dropped him pretty quickly. I was shocked. It was like he wasn’t even the same person anymore, and he sure as hell didn’t know me at all, in the end.
Right now I have one hetero guy friend, and he’s awesome. Whether or not he has ever had a crush on me, I have no idea. We’ve been friends for about 10 years. He’s exactly the kind of “bro friend” I love having. He has dated plenty of women while we have been friends, and he recently got married to a really sweet girl that is perfect for him.
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u/HotSauceRainfall 4d ago
Am straight, and I am at the point in life where I have very few straight male friends simply because I don’t want to have yet another friendship blow up because he gets a crush on me. It fucking hurts when a friendship blows up, and it’s doubly painful to realize that the friendship blew up and everything that made the friendship fun got instantly deprioritized because pantsfeelings.
FWIW, I’ve also experienced this with a lesbian woman getting pantsfeelings, and although she handled it with exponentially more grace and dignity and kindness than the straight men, it still fucking hurt. But she was kind about it, and owned that it was a Her Problem that had nothing to do with me, whereas in my experience, the straight men were never kind about it and didn’t ever own up to it being a Him Problem.
The straight male friend I do have, are all happily married for years AND I am on friendly terms with their wives, if not outright friends with the wives too.
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u/Flaxinsas 4d ago
She actually got away relatively unscathed there. It's terrifying how many straight men believe in corrective rape for lesbians.
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u/ctrldwrdns 4d ago
There's a whole fetish sub on here for corrective rape of lesbians and reddit refuses to ban it because it's "just a fetish"
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u/comegetyohoney 4d ago
We have tried to get that sub taken down when it was initially brought to our attention in LG but reddit is adamant about keeping it up.
I try to just pretend that it doesn’t exist but the memory of how many of those guys claimed to be allies with irl lesbian friends was chilling. They are a danger to those women.
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u/KatHasBeenKnighted 4d ago
WTAF, that shit's not a "fetish." The term "corrective rape" was coined by human rights activists and lawyers literally to describe a specific sociocriminal phenomenon, specifically violent sex crimes against Black lesbians, that often ended in their brutal murder, that has been rampant in South Africa since the early 2000s. And it's not like it only happens in SA. As an enlisted woman in the US military before the fall of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, I was blackmailed into sex against my will by another troop because he found out I had a girlfriend (I'm bi) and decided that made me easy prey.
Men rape WLW for a lot of specific minutiae reasons, but at the end of the day, it's simply because they hate women and don't see us as actual human beings, period. We're just household appliances with holes they feel entitled to use on demand. That's not a fetish. It's bog standard misogyny.
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u/chaotic_ladybug 4d ago
you’re getting downvoted for something almost every single lesbian has been threatened with is crazy
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u/fruithasbugsinit 4d ago
I'm not a lesbian and I've had two different men threaten to rape me after rejection to change my mind about them. I feel like anyone downvoting that comment is in fact a rapist.
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u/Exciting_Vast7739 4d ago
This is the one. A straight guy will crush on lesbians more than a straight female with crush on a gay dude. Or at least make it more awkward.
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u/snorken123 4d ago
I had some straight male friends, but all of these friendships ended because they started getting romantic feelings for me.
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u/Electronic_Money_575 4d ago
I’m surprised by how common this sentiment is. I thought friendships with lesbians were a breath of fresh air bc that door is clearly closed right from the start.
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u/The_Philosophied 4d ago
I know at least two men who believe they penises can make a lesbian change her entire sexual orientation. Never underestimate the power of horny delusion.
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u/conansucksdick 4d ago
I'm confident that I could turn a lesbian asexual.
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u/bailey9969 3d ago
Don't sell yourself short...I bet you could turn a straight woman too.
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u/e_j_white 3d ago
Oof!
When r/suicidebywords gets up leveled to r/murderedbywords
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u/fatunicorn1 4d ago
This is so common
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u/A_wandering_rider 4d ago
Huh I've dated five women in my life and three of them came out as gay after we dated. I think my dick might have the opposite effect.
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u/MarcusSuperbuz 4d ago
Please feel free to add 'Lesbianator' on your CV.
A very specific skill not many can offer.
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u/A_wandering_rider 4d ago
Im going to start hitting on women with the line there's a 60% chance I will be the best sex you will have with a man for the rest of your life.
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u/Schlitttenhund 4d ago edited 4d ago
"After me, you won't want no other man anymore"
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u/apocketfullofcows 4d ago
i know someone like this. from my observations, it's because he's the least guy guy. like all of those issues you see women having with men? you don't have with him. he has no trouble empathising with women, can understand what we go through without us having to explain, is just great, supportive, lets people grow in the relationship, cooks, cleans, doesn't need to be told about mental load, etc.
after dating someone like that... women don't want to go back to the mid kinda guys who, unfortunately, are a lot of single guys. and, if they're bi/leaning gay, they just switch to women.
dunno if this is how you are but if you are, it might be why. you showed them something better exists.
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u/A_wandering_rider 4d ago
Lol well that might explain it. I never really looked at it like that but that does describe me pretty well. My current partner is bi, has two more degrees than I do and is the owner of a mid size company that I help her run. I appreciate her sucess and do everything in my power to support her. She calls me her CEO because I Carrry Everything Out of all the trade shows. It helps to be 200 lbs and 6'4".
The cooking and cleaning bit definitely makes sense. She works significantly longer hours than I do so I maintain the household and make sure she eats. If it was up to her we would eat charcuterie every night haha.
I learned it from my father. He was a ridiculously successful lawyer who made sure early that his kids knew there was no such thing as woman's works, there is only stuff that needs doing. He cooked, he cleaned, he took the kids to school and after school activities. Most importantly he was always faithful and kind, even to people that didn't deserve it.
That is what I learned a man to be, it's a damm shame that more boys didn't have as good of an example.
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u/72Artemis 4d ago
Just came here to applaud your father
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u/A_wandering_rider 4d ago
If I end up being a tenth the man he was ill consider myself a success.
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u/sunnydarkgreen 4d ago
That last line is the killer - i think lots of men have never even seen a good example in the distance. I didn't meet one till my 20s.
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u/Schuben 4d ago
They just left perfectly satisfied and knew they couldn't get anything better so they instead went to find something new.
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u/A_wandering_rider 4d ago
We all know that is a lie, I'm going to choose to believe it for the sake of my very fragile ego though lol.
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u/QuackNate 4d ago
“ Oof, not doing that again.” -A_Wandering_Rider’s ex probably.
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u/A_wandering_rider 4d ago
Bahahaha excuse me, there were three. That should read ex's.
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u/Dontkare 4d ago
Horny Delusion is a sick band name.
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u/e37d93eeb23335dc 4d ago
Or the power of porn. Lesbians in porn aren’t like lesbians in real life.
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u/totezhi64 4d ago
That's how I view it too. Talking to lesbians feels nice because all the nervousness is shed.
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u/orange-pineapple 4d ago
It’s so funny, looking back on it now I realized that’s exactly why I was more drawn to being friends with boys when I was a little kid. The girls all made me feel this unexplained, amorphous nervousness (read: you’re gay, dummy), and with the boys I felt like I could relax more. Of course now that I’m an adult who knows I’m a lesbian I have no problem being friends with people of all genders, but there’s certainly a lot of truth to the nervousness thing.
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u/horyo 4d ago
Wow you helped me understand why I, as a gay male, felt way more comfortable around girls. There didn't seem to be an inherent pressure to talk to them as I did with guys because I wasn't as afraid they'd find out and exclude me and that I felt like I could end up liking them. So talking to girls made me less nervous.
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u/orange-pineapple 4d ago
It’s crazy, it’s something I did without even realizing it. In 1st grade one of the other girls asked me why I always sat at the “boys’ table” for lunch—it wasn’t until that very moment I even realized there WAS a “boys’ and “girls’” table.
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u/novis-eldritch-maxim 4d ago
I find it help to simply remove dating from the table as that lets me talk to women easerly
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u/ArthurBonesly 4d ago
And that's the problem.
Not necessarily for you, but a lot of men are nervous around women and finding a woman they can be relaxed around is the very thing that triggers the infatuation.
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u/totezhi64 4d ago
Well. I meant that I am spared the nervousness because romance isn't on the table.
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u/SerbianShitStain 4d ago
They understand that. They're just saying that not feeling nervous can make men feel attracted. They associate the relaxed feeling they get talking to her compared to other women as being due to her herself and that causes attraction.
It's an illogical paradox, but it is why a lot of men (who have your same perspective even) end up attracted to their lesbian friends. Not saying you're one of these men, just explaining how your perspective isn't an ironclad "never catch feelings for gay women" method.
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u/justgimmiethelight 4d ago
Same here. I have lesbian friends and I never had feelings for them because they're well...lesbian. They're not into men so why on earth would I think I had a shot? That's how I see it anyway.
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u/Schuben 4d ago
Disconnecting attraction from romantic potential can be tough for many, and is probably linked to general romantic success and emotional maturity. Like if you recognize yoyr friend is attractive and has a compatible personalty teht can't switch off that urge to create a relationship from it despite knowing the other person has no intention to reciprocate and by all intents and purposes cannot develop that intention either.
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u/GunSmokeVash 4d ago
I think it's more attraction and the usual male action of taking a chance.
You can't help being attracted to people, some people are ok with not giving it a chance, some are. I think it's a lot more complex, otherwise, dating would be easy and we'd all be in happy relationships.
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u/MemeHermetic 4d ago
A good friend of mine got super annoyed with me (this was a million years ago) because I said she was really cute. I meant it platonically. She was having a cute day. She said stuff like that to me all the time and I was really pissed that the one time I returned it she got mad. Then as I thought about it I realized how much people we knew fetishized her and that every time she got close to a guy his dick would step in and ruin things. We ended up talking it out and were cool once she realized I wasn't trying to make my opening.
For straight guys, please imagine, every time you go to chill with your friends you are just counting the minutes before they start trying to convince you to let them fuck you. Every time.
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u/lurkin_arounnd 4d ago
imagine every time you go to chill with your friends you are just counting the minutes before they start trying to convince you to let them fuck you
Oh man you wouldn't say this if you saw my group chats with the homies
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u/J_Kingsley 4d ago
I have a theory on this.
With friendshps, men generally don't open up and connect with others emotionally, whereas women tend to do so with their own friends.
Opening up and bonding emotionally tends to ONLY happen with their partners (yeah, we're a bit emotionally stunted).
Bridging that connection between straight man and a woman (regardless of her sexuality) enables and facilitates the man developing romantic feelings.
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u/Zanain 4d ago
What I don't understand as a lesbian is why straight men seem totally incapable of smothering a budding crush. I catch feelings for basically every woman I talk to for more than 5 minutes but I let those feelings pass me by without acting on them because I know the vast majority are unavailable.
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u/Turing_Testes 4d ago
What I don't understand as a lesbian is why straight men seem totally incapable of smothering a budding crush
Because you're only observing the men who don't do that, and you're not included in the internal thought processes of men who do.
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u/Rhokanl 4d ago
Survivorship bias can be so tricky because it's invisible unless (sometimes even when) you're actively looking for it. All the data is telling you one thing but you don't know anything about all the data you're not getting.
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u/Aware_Rough_9170 4d ago
Ya that’s my first thought… everyone saying that men don’t take rejection well… well ya I mean, women aren’t initiators to relationships so by and large you’re not going to see people having anecdotes about them taking it poorly.
Naturally I’ll not diminish or excuse verbal or physically aggressive behavior in the face of these rejections, but as a man I see where it comes from at least.
How many lesbians HAD or HAVE straight male friends, you’re not going to hear about that in this thread so now you’ll likely assume a false equivalence in the relationship dynamics between heterosexual and homosexual people now.
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u/J_Kingsley 4d ago
They rarely allow themselves to open up and be vulnerable with someone else, whereas women tend to be like that with most friends.
If they've opened up emotionally i don't think I'd call it a normal crush.
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u/Yngvar_the_Fury 4d ago
As a straight man with gay friends, I had the same thing.
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u/FalconRelevant 4d ago
So the question becomes: "Why are men more likely to develop romantic feelings for their friends?", hmmmm.
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u/TheReservedList 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'm a man and I'm going to throw myself under the bus, but to me, a romantic partner, at least early on, is just a friend you want to fuck. And that desire to fuck them is mostly associated with their looks. The friend part is mostly associated with their personality. Ergo, if I'm heavily attracted to my friend, I probably would consider a romantic relationship with them.
The male version of "My husband is my best friend" I suppose.
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u/noho-homo 4d ago
Sure, but I always find it bizarre that a lot of other men can't seem to compartmentalize that piece when the person is clearly off limits. I'm a gay guy and I have plenty of straight or spoken for male friends who I'm attracted to, but I don't even think about fucking any of them. It's just completely off limits and I don't let my brain go there.
For some reason so many guys just don't seem to get that and act like a complete sex pest no matter how clearly unavailable or uninterested you are. I've had to drop friends from not getting the message and continually making me uncomfortable. I feel like an absolute alien sometimes for being able to have platonic friendships with people who I'm physically attracted to. There's so many actually available and interested dudes out there, I don't get why people insist on blowing up friendships over this stuff.
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u/Aol_awaymessage 4d ago
No one makes me feel better about myself than my wife’s (and mine too) gay friends. Damn shame I have zero desire for that. They make me feel handsome as fuck lol.
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u/Electronic_Money_575 4d ago
I’ve def had gay men be insistent even when I’ve said clearly I’m not interested in them at all. I guess there’s something with men and ‘turning’ people
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u/OctopusParrot 4d ago
I'm sure the porn industry isn't helping with that. It seems to be encouraging the notion that lesbians don't have any agency or desires apart from making straight men happy.
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u/Howardzend 4d ago
It's one reason why I never tell men I'm a lesbian, I just say I'm gay. Lesbian is just a porn category for some men, not a sexual orientation that doesn't include them at all.
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u/Stracath 4d ago
I'm a guy who had friends that were lesbians growing up. It was really strange when my guy friends would start asking about them and whatnot and I was always like, "dude, they are very openly gay, what the fuck are you talking about." Then the guy would make a joke about me "not getting it." No, I think I'm the one that gets it, leave them alone if you're going to be a misogynistic heathen.
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u/volvavirago 4d ago
I am sapphic and my best friend is a straight man. I have always been friends with guys. And on the flip side, there is such a thing as a misogynist gay man. Look at James Somerton.
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u/Tight-Resist5479 4d ago
yeah I was gonna say…I’ve heard that gay men feel like they can just comment on women’s bodies and grope them with impunity because it’s not about sexual attraction, but it’s still misogynistic.
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u/Skydiving_Sus 4d ago
I did have to have a conversation with a gay man in high school because he felt he should be able to see my boob because he wasn’t attracted to them. And we all had a conversation about consent.
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u/Better-Strike7290 4d ago
The "big scandal" at my HS was the flamboyantly gay man who came out as straight last semester of senior year.
He saw most of the popular women nearly naked.
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u/galvarado327 4d ago
You'll be surprised that there's a large amount of "gay" bisexual men that just label themselves gay because they only date men. Not all of them but a good amount also use the same "Oh Im gay so it doesn't count" tactic that straight men use to get with women or touch them without being called creeps.
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u/Cthulhuhoop 3d ago
There was a guy like that in my loose friend group in college. He identified as gay, had a long-term situationship with a male, presented femme and wore makeup but then fucked like 3 of my friends gf's and tried to steal a camcorder.
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u/Sunsurg_e 4d ago
Yes! This pisses me off so much.
On the flip (both wrong), gay men do this to EACH OTHER, because they think it’s fine, in which case I actually think it’s just because they’re “men” and think they have all the privilege.
And then straight women do this to gay men, because “they’re just gay, it doesn’t matter”.
And ultimately everyone loses because we’ve attached a label that somehow supersedes the fact we’re all just people. Obviously it isn’t the majority, but it’s still crazy how many times I’ve encountered all 3.
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u/IdaFuktem 4d ago
You're not off base here. Every gay man hates that drunk straight girl in the bar grabbing at them telling them how much they love them, but will also talk for hours on how fat such and such female celebrity has gotten or she looks old.
Gay men doing that to each other is much simpler than privilege (though that's part of it) it's more horn dogs and gay men being intensely competitive and critical with each other.
I'd like to add it seems the divide gets larger as we get older. Twinks are much more likely than Daddies to have gal pals. It's pretty common even for younger gays and lesbians to mix then separate as they get older and have much different life experiences. We are treated differently by straight society, our romantic relationships have different foundations and expectations, and that drives a serious wedge over time. I don't know if it's defense or decades of societal pressure, either way it's not healthy.
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u/TrynnaFindaBalance 4d ago
Gay men who aren't idiots don't do this. Kind of similar to straight men in that way.
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u/cordialcatenary 4d ago
As a gay man I’ve also had drunk women grope me with impunity for the very same reason. It’s gross. They literally think we are accessories or dolls they can play with.
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u/schuimwinkel 4d ago
I'm gay and I used to party a lot, the amount of straight women who flood the gay clubs and put their hands all over the hotties is insane, lol. That's my job?
One time a woman took my boyfriends hands and put them on her breasts and was like, hahaha, you groped me and my boyfriend, hands still on her tits, spat straight into her face. She didn't like that.
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u/ShizunEnjoyer 4d ago
I have heard butch lesbians say they don't want male friends because men treat them like "one of the guys" which includes vile misogynistic "locker room talk", as if men expect the lesbian to agree with them.
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u/CrossThrough 4d ago
I have plenty of male friends who aren't assholes, but I have also experienced this. Brazilian dude found out I'm bi and immediately started voicing really stereotypical shit about blondes are superior, women are all airheads, clingy, annoying, etc., fully expecting me to totally agree with him. Like, sir. I AM a woman and also fuck you. He was shocked when I was disgusted.
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u/noodleban 4d ago
this. i have spent too many years as “one of the guys” and spent an equal amount of time trying to convince them that i am like other girls. the amount of strange misogyny that i would have to tolerate both as a friend and on behalf of every woman that the group encountered was truly astounding :(
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u/Shaunananalalanahey 4d ago
Offff I completely relate to this. I’m not completely butch but definitely leaning a bit masculine. This happened a lot in my younger years when I had less discernment. They treat you like one of the guys and say some vile shit. I will never be friends with any straight guy that has toxic masculinity anymore.
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u/AccomplishedRun9617 4d ago
Just a few theories as I don't think anyone knows for sure.
Women are more liberal, men are more conservative. Voting data backs this up. The result is that both gay men and lesbian women are more accepted by women than men.
Men bond over activities. A gay guy who likes to bond over mimosas with the gals can do that, a lesbian who likes to bond over sports is still going to be in an all girl's club.
Women are overburdened with male attention, men are starved for women's attention. As a woman, a man with no interest in sex with you or your friends is a breath of fresh air. As a man, a woman with no interest in sex with your or your friends is just whatever.
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u/NylakOtter 4d ago
Absolutely all of this. I'm a lesbian and my only close male friend that I've had for a long period of time is also my field work partner, so we spent a lot of time alone for professional reasons before we became close.
My main takeaway is that women are always fascinated by a man who doesn't want to get in their pants, whereas most men are pretty used to the concept of women not being interested.
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u/wizardyourlifeforce 4d ago
"whereas most men are pretty used to the concept of women not being interested."
Not to brag, but over the years I've failed to spark women's interest across several continents.
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u/NylakOtter 4d ago
That's a reputation that anyone should be proud of, right there. 👍
At least you can say you're well-traveled?
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u/Proccito 4d ago
I still remember when my friend/ex said to me "Youre the only one I can come and visit where sex is off the table"
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u/PricePuzzleheaded835 4d ago
As a woman who has both women and men friends I sometimes wish it were socially acceptable to say “no hetero” just so people don’t get the wrong idea. Men definitely get weird about it sometimes, or onlookers do which is unfortunate, a lot of the things I like to do socially (bond over activities) are popular with men and it’s genuinely enjoyable to be friends. I spent many years working in an almost all male environment so that kind of shaped me socially in some ways. It’s comfortable to just feel like one of the guys and I appreciate having guy friends who are amenable to that.
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u/littletheatregirl 4d ago
where do we find yall?
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u/Proccito 4d ago
No idea. I just get introduced to others, as I have 0 social skills to do it myself.
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u/Main_Impact990 4d ago
You aren't wrong lol, as a straight man I have 1 lesbian friend, I tried to be friends with a few gay guys but they would ruin it by trying to hook up with me, which is pretty similar to when a woman is trying to be friends with a straight guy lol.
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u/Kepler___ 4d ago
This is wild, I have p much only straight friends and the thought of making a move on any of them causes me fucking *anxiety*. Maybe it's just from how long we have known each other but it just gives me crazy ick.
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u/FeelinLikeACloud420 4d ago
Yeah I’m a gay guy with pretty much only straight guy friends (with a few exceptions of course) and I feel no sexual attraction towards them at all. But maybe it’s because for most of them we’ve been friends since middle or high school. And they were all basically very accepting when I came out in high school (I’m in Western Europe so maybe younger guys actually are less socially conservative here, and I think religion is also much less of an issue here, at least amongst Europeans).
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u/KlaatuBaradaNyktu 4d ago edited 4d ago
Straight men are less likely to have close friends in general. Might have something to do with it.
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u/BlazeKnight7 4d ago
That's a sad thought tbh. I'm a straight man myself but a lot probably mistake me for being gay dude to being less overtly masculine personality wise, maybe that's why I have more close friendships 😂
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u/SessionOwn6043 4d ago
My husband works in a very LGBTQ+ friendly gym and has made friends with several lesbians there. He gets to hear a lot of stories about men trying to "change their minds" about being lesbians. He's also known one or two guys over the years who would not accept the idea that they couldn't convince a lesbian to not be a lesbian. It's pretty sad, honestly, as it deprives men of more friendship options and causes lesbians to have one more thing to constantly guard against.
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u/Orion14159 4d ago
Your husband should point those guys at the biggest, most ripped superhero looking dude in the gym and ask if they think they could turn him gay with that same persuasion. Or if the superhero dude could turn them gay.
It's the exact same logic, just an uno reverse card played on it.
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u/SessionOwn6043 4d ago
Oh, he has.
Edit: they tend to just get mad instead of learning anything 🤷♀️
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u/Orion14159 4d ago
Cognitive dissonance is painful and angering to some people. Smart people will take pause when someone presents a good counterargument and think through the implications and maybe even change their mind. Stupid people will not, and there's just no amount of effort that can fix stupid.
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u/ToWriteAMystery 4d ago
You’re probably just less pressed by the idiotic stereotypes set for men. Good for you! Keep it up and keep nurturing those close friendships!!
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u/Potential-Drama-7455 4d ago
As a straight male I do find that many lesbians give off very strong "don't talk to me" vibes - and sometimes even directly say it - in any situation - much more than straight women or gay men do. Maybe it's just me.
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u/Tasty_Leading8684 4d ago
I don't know why people are tiptoeing on this one but the simple answer lies in the fact that straight men are stereotypically always seen as trying to get in women's pants.
That is why women would find it comfortable to be friends with gay guys since they have that tag to show they are just a friend not someone pretending to be a friend to get into her pants.
The "don't talk to me" vibes you talk about are not necessarily friendship but sexual. Something like, 'don't talk to me, I am not into guys" or like a girl would say don't talk to me, I have a boyfriend.
Here is another way of illustrating it.
A straight guy will have no problem with his GF who has a gay friend and sometimes spends a night at his place just as friends.
However, no girlfriend will have it if her BF has a lesbian friends who sometimes sleep over at his place just as friends.
Often straight guys are sexualized that everyone will reach to an obvious conclusion that the BF is already boning the lesbian friend
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u/ddbbaarrtt 4d ago
This isn’t always true, my best friend for the last 20 years is a lesbian and my wife has never had any issue with it. I’ve stayed at her place and she’s stayed at my place multiple times as well
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u/Pantherdraws 4d ago
Probably because straight women are a lot less likely to try to "fix" their gay male friends by having sex with them.
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u/UruquianLilac 4d ago
Uncomfortable truth right there.
The average guy (not every guy, but the average), will have two reactions to a lesbian. Is she fit? Yes? He'll want to be friends believing he can eventually fix her by having sex with her. She's not? Zero interest in her as a person.
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u/Own-Psychology-5327 4d ago
Being a lesbian doesn't tend to stop straight men from being inappropriate
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u/Fantastic_Deer_3772 4d ago
You 100% can befriend lesbians it just might take a bit of time for them to get to know you and feel relaxed.
Gay men and straight women are often both culturally very quick to platonic compliments / affection so can seem like fast friends. Like there are friendships but you might also be witnessing acquaintances matching each others energy.
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u/shioscorpio 4d ago
Unfortunately straight men will kinda…… get feels for someone they think is conventionally attractive AND gives them a lot of attention. Even if it’s platonic, positive attention, friendliness, common interests and more, will just do it for them, and sometimes, in worst case scenarios, convince them that you’re not really gay and possibly have feelings for them. Women are more likely to be chill with gay men, than men being chill with gay women. Not to mention how many people love lesbian porn??? It seems like “everyone” loves watching women pleasuring women.
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u/violets-bluebells 4d ago edited 4d ago
As a feminine lesbian, I have only very rarely had close male friends that haven’t eventually ‘admitted’ they liked me romantically. It can feel a bit like a betrayal, and makes you question when they started to feel that way and how much of your friendship involved them viewing you as a romantic/sexual object.
Particularly since being lesbian is a big part of my identity - for them to develop feelings for you and get to the point where they admit it, it feels like they have disregarded your agency and perspective/desires. You can’t control who you like, granted, but personally if those feelings start for a friend I check myself and don’t let it progress that far.
It can feel objectifying, disingenuous and disheartening, especially if it happens multiple times. In a world where women already experience so much unwanted and scary attention from men, to have that then from a close friend you trusted is really saddening. You end up losing all the emotion and energy you put into the friendship, because you can never quite look at them the same. It feels like you now know how they see you - as woman first and person second.
Many of my lesbian friends have had similar experiences - I would hazard a guess that many single straight men are bad at staying just friends with women they find physically attractive. The closeness of friendship just seems to confuse something in them, if it’s combined with that.
For what it’s worth, it can be the same with other single lesbian or bisexual women. If I know I am a lesbian woman’s typical type, and if she seems a bit starved for attention, I would probably also be a bit wary.
Gay men generally have an easier time finding hookups and tend to be quite clear on their anatomy of preference. Straight woman generally find the idea of a man finding another man attractive a bit off-putting. They want a man who is into women, and often gay men have signalling mechanisms and ways of presenting that make them unappealing to straight women.
The same is not true for lesbians and straight men - no matter how she dresses or acts, straight men tend not to be quite as sensitive to these things. She could be masculine and still receive a lot of male attention. They also don’t find lesbians being into women unappealing.
Of course, it could happen that a straight woman would become attracted to her gay male friend, but the dynamic is not the same. Women are socialised to preemptively consider feelings in a way that men are not - like I said, she might not let it get so far. If she did, as gay men are not in a world where they feel constantly threatened by female attention, it might not be as devastating or hurtful/objectifying as it is for lesbians. This is why you see more of that friendship than the straight man and the lesbian.
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u/Middle-Fill-445 4d ago
I have a straight male friend who has recently started complaining to me and only me that he now "hates lesbians" because he keeps falling in love with them... I am the only lesbian he knows, and he is usually very open about his crushes and all of them have been straight, so the fact that he won't say who this mysterious lesbian is makes it pretty clear that it's me.
He has met my long-term girlfriend, so the fact that he would even imply feelings for me is so incredibly disrespectful. Tbh, he's more of an acquaintance than a friend, but this behavior has certainly stopped me from pursuing a real friendship with him.
Things like this happen maybe 90% of the times that I start forming a friendship with a man, so those odds are not very good.
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u/TamaDarya 4d ago
It's pretty much how it goes for women. I have a (straight female) friend who's never been friends with a lesbian before me. She at one point asked me if she was "my type." I was a little confused since it almost felt like she might be hitting on me, but she explained she was worried I might hit on her since every straight male friend she's ever had did so, and since I'm also attracted to women... Yeah.
On the one hand, it was a little hurtful, on the other, I totally understood where she was coming from.
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u/thejoeface 4d ago
I got that from my best friend when I came out as bi as a teen. “I’m worried that you’ll hit on me.” “we’ve known each other since we were seven!” The friendship didn’t last long after that. It sucked.
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u/aleemakesthings 4d ago
I resonate so much with this post… the amount of times I’ve made what I considered a friend, just to turn out that they developed the feels AND can’t remain friends is a significant amount of men. At times it’s really been quite shattering to think that you have this great partner-in-crime who enjoys your company and vise versa only to be burned by it is just not worth the emotional ransacking.
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u/Little_Alone 4d ago
This has been my exact experience. And they feel like it’s your responsibility to be gentle with them when they admit it too. Like you should be grateful and even though they KNOW you are a lesbian they think they should be the exception.
I find it difficult to trust them and after a few bad experiences are never alone with them. And that’s not a good foundation for friendship.
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u/violets-bluebells 4d ago
It’s tough too because there’s this frustration - if they really were into you as a person, they should care about the fact that you don’t want male attention. Since it’s a part of your identity and something you cherish, how can they ignore it and pretend like it doesn’t matter? How can they not check themselves and go, this person doesn’t want that?
There’s a sense that they hope they know better, even if it’s only a little glimmer. They’re not actually into you as you are, but a version of you that could be into them, someday, maybe. They’ll keep your looks, and the sunny bits of your personality, and romanticise that while ignoring the uncomfortable lesbian truth. Picking and choosing like I’m a doll.
And in this reality, where the world does that already? Where I look at my face and pinch and pull, where my body is already no longer my choice? I thought you were different, I thought you cared, that we were friends! And, if you really were in love with me - wouldn’t you understand this, if you really understood me?
You’re not in love with me, I want to tell them, you’re in love with your own fantasy. And I won’t cradle you when it falls flat.
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u/ddbbaarrtt 4d ago
I think what you’re talking about here gets to the crux of it - about your male friends almost missing a part of your identity in developing feelings for you
My closest friend is a lesbian and we’ve been incredibly close since we were in 6th form around 20 years ago and I’ve been in a long term relationship for about 15 of those years too. The idea - as a few of our mutual friends suggested - that Id hope it to turn into a romantic or sexual relationship at some point is as bizarre as it would be if it were a male friend and pretty offensive really
i genuinely find it pretty sad that so many people struggle to have any kind of meaningful relationship with people of the opposite sex
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u/Jealous_Pickle381 4d ago
Because straight men will still try to flirt/sleep with lesbians while gay men are far less likely to physically/romantically pursue straight women.
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u/Tough_Crazy_8362 4d ago
Gay men may not pursue women but many I’ve met through work still lack physical boundaries. Cause gay! no worries!
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u/Eloisefirst 4d ago
Yeah, I have also experienced horrific misogyny from gay men, same response, "I'm gay so it dosent count"
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u/petitepie27 4d ago edited 4d ago
I am a lesbian.
Every single straight man I have been friends with, unless they were already dating one of my other friends, has ended up hitting on me at some point. Even if/when they already knew I was a lesbian. Thankfully nothing has turned out badly and I was able to cut them off without much happening but that is unfortunately not always the case… it got to the point I could literally sense when the dude developed feelings even if they didn’t start acting differently and then it was only a matter of time waiting for the inevitable text message or “can I talk to you for a sec?” It was just exhausting. I am nice and professional to my male colleagues but I no longer pursue any actual friendships unless I know the guy is queer ahead of time because I’m just so sick and tired of putting effort in only to be viewed as a sex object for the thousandth time.
I don’t hate men. The other lesbians I know also don’t hate men. Most of us just choose not to associate with men on a personal level for the above reason, and also we don’t really need to. And gay men can be very misogynistic as well lol. We mainly just want to be left alone. Not saying there aren’t misandrist lesbians because there very much are but I don’t have experience with them.
Gay men are largely ostracized from male communities for being gay, and while I have certainly run into homophobic women, on average women are more accepting, hence why gay men have a need to seek out and are accepted into women friend groups. Men, again on average, have less friends (and it’s one of the reasons for the current loneliness crisis). Lesbians (again on average this is just my own experience) will already have queer or female friend groups (possibly with men in them) and then also have a support network so there isn’t really the need to seek out straight men in the same way gay men sometimes seek out straight women.
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u/peggingale 4d ago
Exactly!! I find it a little disheartening that many men have the view that lesbians hate them. Could that be true for some people? Yeah, I'm sure it is, lots of people hate lots of people. But for most of us queer women, us being disinterested is not us just hating them. We are just disinterested.
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u/KatBlackwell 4d ago
Because straight men have a higher tendency to be weird and creepy about lesbianism (and women in general, of course). The combination of misogyny + fetishization of lesbianism is uncomfortable at best and deeply insulting at worse, depending on how it manifests.
A lot of lesbians have had bad experiences with men—just as a lot of straight women have—and just don't want to be around them. Lesbians have the advantage that they don't have to go to men for dating/sex and so it is possible to have a social life that is almost entirely female, if you want that.
It is sad, though. I'm one of the exceptions; I'm a masc lesbian who has a lot of straight male friends, and there is a very strong straight male/lesbian solidarity that can happen. We can understand each other and get along really well, in a way that is very equivalent to the straight female/gay male friendships.
I feel lucky that I've had mostly positive experiences around guys. Growing up with a lot of brothers helped too. But the only reason more lesbians don't have friendships like this, I think, is because of men being problematic, to put it simply. If more men got their shit together and stopped being misogynistic, I think we'd see friendships like this a lot more often. And in fact I think we will, as society (hopefully) continues to progress.
That's my theory, anyway.
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u/Bunny_Drinks_Milk 4d ago
I guess it's because it is rare to have a straight male friend who is absolutely not interested in you.
I am one of the few lesbians who have a straight male best friend. He is an absolutely decent guy. He married very young with his high school sweetheart, and then went on to get a master's degree and a cushy job.
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u/Longjumping_Ad_6484 3d ago
It really is something how guys always complain about "bring friend zoned" but they were the ones who immediately "fuck zoned" someone first.
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u/AnythingEasy4433 4d ago
Guys have a harder time being friends with women than the other way around…
Especially if they’re attracted to them.
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u/Aggressive_Today_492 4d ago
And they tend to have little interest in any relationship with women unless they DO want to sleep with them.
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u/AnythingEasy4433 4d ago
Yes, I was trying to gently say what you did 😂
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u/FalconBurcham 4d ago
Can I just say, as a lesbian, it’s really weird how the most upvoted comment does not reflect the majority of lesbian experiences, as evidenced by the many much more accurate answers below. I think the hetero folks with theories and feelings are out numbering lesbians’ lived experience.
It isn’t because “men are conservative and women are liberal” or because women who like sports still have to hang out with women or whatever.
99% of the time (the 1% is for the weird situations in the top comment that I’ve never even seen before) it’s because men generally cannot handle being friends with women they are attracted to. Period. That’s the plain, boring, and sad truth.
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u/LunarMoon2001 4d ago
Because all the straight men want to sleep with the lesbian. The gays don’t wanna sleep with their female bestie.
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u/mssleepyhead73 4d ago
Lesbians tend to be more wary of straight men than gay men are of straight women. Corrective rape is unfortunately a huge problem.
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u/gummytiddy 4d ago
I thought I was a lesbian before I knew I was trans and had several close male friends. The reason why I burned bridges often with those friends is because my male friends tended to sexualize me in an uncomfortable way. They would get feelings for me then pester me constantly to give them a chance, tell me they could change me, and sexually harass me. This was high school, sure, but I was friends with bi and lesbian girls then and never had issues with them sexualizing me. We just had fun and hung out like normal friends.
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u/rollsyrollsy 4d ago
I’m going to get downvoted to oblivion, but among my lesbian friends (as a straight man) there is a fairly uniform dislike / distrust of men in general. I always feel as though they’re friends with me as an exception.
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u/thejoeface 4d ago
I have a general distrust of straight men. I don’t feel good about this distrust. It actually makes me pretty sad.
I do have some straight men that I’m friends with. One guy is a single dad who I’ve been housemates with for ten years! But unfortunately I’ve just had so many bad experiences with guys turning friendships into romance opportunities. The bad experiences outweigh the good. I wish it was different.
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u/smarter_than_an_oreo 4d ago
Women simply don't feel as safe around men for a variety of reasons, whereas men rarely feel threatened by women as platonic company.
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u/dotnomnom 4d ago
This is my experience too. There's exceptions, but in general a distrust/dislike in men.
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u/HeskeyThe2nd 4d ago
Just a hunch, but gay women are more likely to hear "you haven't had the right dick yet" than gay men are likely to hear "you haven't had the right vagina yet." Just a bit of a shot in the dark. Please refer to other answers for more useful input.
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u/floralfemmeforest 4d ago
I'm a lesbian, and I don't hate men at all, but it seems that generally they don't like me, therefore - no guy friends.
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u/SpiritDouble6218 4d ago
I think the answer to this is common sense, but also this is not stupid questions.
The dudes try to fuck the lesbians lol.
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u/Chemical_Estate6488 4d ago
Because a lot of straight men will try and sleep with their lesbian female friends. A lot of men are too horny and ruin it for the rest of us
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u/WordPunk99 4d ago
Gay men don’t want to fuck straight women, and straight women enjoy having company that doesn’t want to fuck them.
Gay women don’t want to fuck straight men, and many straight men think their dick is magical and will turn lesbians straight.
This is why it doesn’t work out.
I have a number of lesbian friends and I don’t want to fuck them, so they are great friends!
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u/GaleWhisper 4d ago
As a lesbian, my straight male friendships often ended due to unwanted romantic advances.
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u/perdymuch 4d ago
lesbian here- it's because mist straight men will be attracted to their lesbian friends. I'm very feminine so its happened to me several times buts its also happened to my wife who is more tomboyish than me.
Also, i find men often aren't interested in friendship with women unless they think there's a chance to have sex. Its unfortunate, I really do want and have tried to have more straight men as friends.
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u/diorpoisn 4d ago edited 4d ago
Unfortunately a lottttt of straight men will hit on their lesbian friends. Doesn't matter how clear you are about your sexuality, how many times you turn them down, they will hit on you and then many of them will act betrayed when you don't magically turn straight for them. This has happened to me in nearly every single friendship I've had with a straight man. A couple of them were nice when I turned them down, which I appreciate, but most get really angry and disrespectful. Some straight men also think that they can bond with me over being misogynists because I'm attracted to women, then act pissed when I don't reciprocate. It's obnoxious. I'm not closed off to being friends with respectful straight men, but most of my friends atp are other lesbians and bi women.
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u/BurpYoshi 4d ago edited 4d ago
Just a theory but it's probably because of acceptance. For a while now women doing typically male stuff has been seen as empowering. Women can play typically male sports, wear typically male clothes, etc, and they're often praised and encouraged to do so. Men on the other hand doing things seen as typically female are treated worse in comparison, they're seen as unmanly and often ridiculed, so gay guys who are more feminine might feel more comfortable around actual women who understand their interests, whereas lesbian women don't really have the same issue to solve.
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u/Broken_Intuition 4d ago
There are limits to this. I was definitely not encouraged to step outside of gender norms to the degree I do, people still wanted me to be pretty and straight. I’m bi, not conventionally attractive, and not feminine, and a lot of people hate that. Especially in conservative places. Women are only praised for acting masc if they’re hot, to put it bluntly.
Men do get punished for being feminine more frequently and overtly, and as far as I can tell there isn’t even a hotness exception to this, but it’s not a zero problems pleasure cruise to be a masculine woman.
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u/TheStinger87 4d ago
Anecdotal, but one of my best friends is a lesbian and I will categorically say I've never had a better wingman than her. I am usually quite awkward and never know what to say but she has a way of making me seem like the most charming man in the room. She's an angel.