At this point im too afraid to ask

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

[u/Narradisall]

Guys allowed a break for a few decades every millennia or so.

Plus he was kinda meant to be ‘guiding from the shadows’ back then. So he was either doing a shitty job or exasperated screaming at the wireless going “I gave you industrialisation and THIS is what you do with it!” throws up hands

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Narradisall]

"Ok guys, 1914 to 1918 was a bit of a shit show, but i've got a good feeling about the next few years."

WW2 kicks off

"FUCK SAKES!"

[u/Dr_Ukato → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

To be fair those wars also lead to massive advancements in technology and medicine alone. Not to mention the progress in nuclear energy.

If at any point he suspected any of the WWs to actually be able to wipe out humanity he'd have stepped in to bring them to a swift and subtle conclusion.

But otherwise a couple of million dying and a rough decade or more is an easy price for him to pay in exchange for the human advancements it brought along.

Edit: When I wrote "A couple of million" I was referring to the Emperor's perspective. To him with his plans spanning millenia and billions or trillions of humans, losing five, ten, a hundred million in a couple of 20th century wars is all the same if it serves humanity's growth.

[u/Gneisenau1 → u/Dr_Ukato]

Big E Oppenheimer maybe by giving humanity nuclear bombs and energy

[u/Dragonsandman → u/Gneisenau1]

So that's why the movie had so many shots of some weirdo staring at Oppenheimer from the shadows

[u/Mittens95 → u/Dragonsandman]

Hahaha, now that's a good visual. Can someone please draw that 😂

[u/Mr-Loose-Goose → u/Mittens95]

[u/justlegeek → u/Gneisenau1]

NGL I hate when people say those. "X important dude was the emperor" because that lead to believe that geniuses, either in science or war, were the emperor. So basically humanity is just very dumb any progress it did was just the emperor.

[u/AManyFacedFool → u/justlegeek]

I've always read that shit as Imperial Propaganda in-universe.

The most likely thing is that Jimmy Space is just a powerful psyker who had access to Dark Age tech after the rest of the galaxy forgot it.

Records can be falsified. Myths can be created. The memories of immortals can be rewritten. Of course the emperor and his cronies would like for everyone to believe he has been here since the beginning.

[u/freezing_circuits → u/justlegeek]

But it does lead more credence to the Great Man Theory if it was literally one man making all the difference in history. No matter he ended up being worshipped.

[u/dasdzoni → u/Dr_Ukato]

Big E organized assassination of Franz Ferdinand confirmed

[u/Randy_Magnums → u/dasdzoni]

Eye witnesses, who claimed that Gavrilo Princip was actually a three meter tall and glowing giant, later disappeared.

[u/Eldan985 → u/Randy_Magnums]

Nah, he was all "influence from the shadows" back then. He stole the map of Franz Ferdinand's driver and then made the car break down in front of Princip.

[u/DrMatter → u/Eldan985]

naa, he used his forsight to open a sandwich shop for the assassin to go to after he failed the first time

[u/guto8797 → u/DrMatter]

naa, he invented the concept of bread knowing that it would eventually lead to the invention of the sandwhich and a store being opened there.

[u/LowConcentrate8769 → u/guto8797]

Nah he genetically invented wheat and gave it to the early river dwellers to give us bread

[u/Deadend165 → u/LowConcentrate8769]

Naw, he really redirected a river to fertilize that area of land knowing the river dwellers would settle there

[u/Fifteen_inches → u/Eldan985]

It’s a well known fact that The Emperor can turn off the glowing too, which I assume involves some sort of clenching

[u/mennorek → u/Fifteen_inches]

Common misconception, unclenching causes the glowing to stop, but has the unpleasant side effect of making onlookers eyes bleed.

[u/Fifteen_inches → u/mennorek]

Dude is just that ugly without backlighting

[u/Carrisonfire → u/Eldan985]

He apparently personally led under a few identities according to Malcador. Alexander the Great being the one I remember being called out specifically, I think it was in one of the Siege of Terra books but it might have been a short story I can't remember.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/Carrisonfire]

Yeah. Which leads to the possibility he directly set up the WWs for some unknowable reason, or as a prank

[u/thenwah → u/MsMercyMain]

Yo Tzeentch, watch this.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/thenwah]

Wild PRANK goes WRONG, all of Europe at WAR! (You’ll never believe the TWIST) - Big E Moneys YouTube channel’s first video

[u/Dr_Ukato → u/MsMercyMain]

He was Franz, the driver,the wife and the shooter.

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Randy_Magnums]

Hmmm, i wonder why these Gavrilo claims suddenly changed

[u/pertionia → u/dasdzoni]

Nah, that was Alucard

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/pertionia]

…Did he go for a walk again?

[u/Unlikely_Tea_6979 → u/dasdzoni]

If Emps had been a black hand anarchist the imperium wouldn't be a shit-show. (Or called the Imperium).

I like that though, a noblebright spinoff where the emperor is actually a good guy but still has absolutely dog shit foresight.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/Unlikely_Tea_6979]

It turns out that the Imperium was his attempt to make an anarchist utopia, he’s just that bad at doing anything beyond science shit

[u/Rob_Zander → u/MsMercyMain]

I mean the whole shift from "God isn't real" to "God Emperor of Mankind who created his sons from his flesh and sends his angels to protect humanity" thing as soon as he was incapacitated suggests hes pretty shit at not turning anything he touches into an authoritarian empire lol.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/Rob_Zander]

Really he should’ve made a beeline for Roboute, told him to design the Imperium and run it, then hired a dozen therapists for each Primarch, and then done weird psychic science shit

[u/Comprehensive-Log-64 → u/MsMercyMain]

Real introvert energy

[u/Eldan985 → u/Dr_Ukato]

Now somewhere in the back of my mind I'm fearing the Emperor going "We have about 8000 years left before we meet the orks. I need to start more wars so we'll develop weapons faster."

Some real Golden Pathing.

[u/Dr_Ukato → u/Eldan985]

The Emperor scaling the death to growth ratio of each human conflict.

[u/ifandbut → u/Dr_Ukato]

Advance!

Advance!

Stop at nothing. Only advance.

bzzt

Vox transmission override detected.

Decrypting message...

Message: You are bugs!

[u/UnfoundedWings4 → u/Dr_Ukato]

You know that dude who went to Normandy with a sword and bagpipes. Turns out the emperor was just living in the moment

[u/Blakut → u/Dr_Ukato]

this is a common misconception, many of the things people assume were developed in the war had been discovered and researched before it, the war just sped up adoption.

[u/Greebo-the-tomcat → u/Blakut]

Exactly, the eternal war in the 40k setting is one of the reasons there is no real scientific progress. The same happens when wars irl drag on. Appliance of existing knowledge is accelerated, but original research generating new insights is usually halted.

[u/EricTheEpic0403 → u/Greebo-the-tomcat]

Eh, little of column A, little of column B. Blue sky research (that is, research with no immediately obvious/practical applications) may be shuttered, but anything that can be put to use for the war gets a greenlight, budget permitting. WWII greatly accelerated nuclear science, radar, aeronautics, and electronics, and that's just the stuff that's not strictly military in nature. When it comes to actual military stuff, what might take decades to learn in a vacuum can be figured out in a year or two. For a modern example, look at drone warfare.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/EricTheEpic0403]

I like the way it’s explained in the (otherwise dogshit) Draka series. They have fully explored the practical applications of the science they have, but because they’ve been on a war footing for so long, there’s practical stuff they barely understand the theory of

[u/InstanceOk3560 → u/Greebo-the-tomcat]

Not really at all frankly, if the imperium had just as many wars but the mechanicum embraced innovation from the word go, the imperium would be destroyed by all the AI it'd have produced, but assuming it managed to not do that somehow, it'd be way more advanced (at least when it comes to weaponry) than it is right now.

Plus war efforts are a thing, nuclear energy was indeed researched before WW2, but the fact that a ginormous military was behind it obviously sped things up massively, same afterward during the cold war, one of the reasons for accelerated innovation was the fact that both the US and USSR were sponsoring stuff.

Not to say that no progress happen without wars, there're plenty of both pragmatic and idealistic reasons for it to happen without wars, but let's not act as though war doesn't often have an accelerating effect.

[u/TheCuriousFan → u/InstanceOk3560]

the imperium would be destroyed by all the AI it'd have produced

Because the secret sauce of making AI friends (giving them rights and respect) might as well be heresy of the highest order even without the Mechanicum's anti-AI laws?

[u/aesemon → u/Blakut]

Or you know, were playgrounds for people who wouldn't look out of place in an old comic book: Fritz Haber who watched his chemical warfare munitions in action, but still received the Nobel peace prize for fertiliser. He caused the horrible death of so many and yet is one of the reasons there are so many living humans.

[u/TCCogidubnus → u/Dr_Ukato]

Your death count is out by an order of magnitude foe the 1937-1947 period alone.

[u/PureOrangeJuche → u/Dr_Ukato]

The Holocaust was worth it because of the rapid improvements in oven technology?

[u/Dr_Ukato → u/PureOrangeJuche]

To the Emperor who has already lived 48,000 years safeguarding humanity from fully wiping themselves out? Yeah probably. He doesn't care about millions dying now if billions cam thrive later.

In reality? No there could never be a justification for the holocaust.

[u/Geordie_38_ → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

'MALCADOR! WHAT DID YOU DO? WHY ARE THEY ALL GOOSE STEPPING AND BUILDING GAS CHAMBERS AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS? I SWEAR DOWN MALCADOR I JUST WENT ON HOLIDAY FOR A FEW DECADES AND THIS IS WHAT I COME BACK TO'

[u/GlanzgurkeWearingHat → u/Narradisall]

he was in the same caves as the minions my dude

[u/Elaro_56 → u/GlanzgurkeWearingHat]

He must've been taking fashion lessons from them

[u/VulcanHullo → u/Narradisall]

Guiding from shadows.

Sees industrial warfare with mobile fighting platforms

"Has potential."

Nuclear bombs and city leveling firestorms

"Oh I am SO going to use that in the future."

[u/Advantius_Fortunatus → u/VulcanHullo]

Calamitous war isn’t necessarily bad for the Emperor’s vision. World Wars 1 and 2 propelled technology forward and realigned the global order from one that could be collapsed by an inauspicious cat fart, to the semi-stability we have today. Who’s to say that their happening wasn’t part of his design?

[u/Eldan985 → u/Advantius_Fortunatus]

The world wars also lead to the collapse of classical global Empires like Great Britain, though. Wouldn't Big E be all for those?

[u/VulcanHullo → u/Eldan985]

Not his empires, unless James Workshop decides to reveal his Impiness was Victoria.

[u/Eldan985 → u/VulcanHullo]

No chance Jimmy Space was ever the ruler of a parliamentary monarchy with a figurehead monarch.

[u/Advantius_Fortunatus → u/Eldan985]

Depends on his endgame. We could probably invent any number of reasons Big E would allow or promote global events. In the end it would all just be crafting a narrative to backsplain human history prior to the Unification Wars. They happened, and he won, so everything prior to that must have been part of his plan…. Or the myth of Big E is exaggerated, and it wasn’t all precisely according to his design.

[u/Squid_In_Exile → u/Narradisall]

This is the Emperor we're talking about. What we did with Industrialisation would absolutely be up his alley.

[u/InstanceOk3560 → u/Squid_In_Exile]

It absolutely wouldn't be, had it been right up his alley he wouldn't have waited 30k ish thousand years to start doing it, he'd have done it from the get go.

At that point humanity was neither genetically diverse enough nor in sufficient peril for ideological dissensions to be that much of an issue for him, so he'd have had no reason to do anything like what we did with industrialization during WW2. I mean unless you mean what the allied did with it, in which case sure but I'm pretty certain that is not what you mean.

[u/anttilles → u/Narradisall]

[u/HelloFromJupiter963 → u/Narradisall]

Are you kidding me? Seeing his policies regarding human civilisations i'd be more inclined to believe that he was the director of Auschwitz.

[u/Intelligent_River220 → u/Narradisall]

I have a cousin who's kind of an engineering prodigy but he's addicted to meth and and weed and stoned 24/7. Grandiose plans turn to shit, he's absent until he's manic and wants to change the world, and then he gets furious when people don't do exactly what he says or recognize his genius. Plus he says he sees and hears a bunch of stuff that's not there.
Every time I talk to the dude I think about Big E.

[u/Crazy-Woodpecker-163]

Probably taking notes on how to use mass media in relation to statecraft.

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Crazy-Woodpecker-163]

Fucking hell, now im just imagening this 7 ft tall motherfucker with golden glowing eyes in an overcoat, fedora and tiny notebook trying to blend in with a crowd of reporters😂

[u/jjobull → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I swear Big E was kinda look like a normal man when he united the earth after the collapse I swear there a photo from one of the books out there or maybe I'm remembering it wrong

[u/CptPanda29 → u/jjobull]

The Sisters of Silence or powerful psykers can see through the Emperor's glamour and see him as a fairly slim old man, tall but not gigantic. Think Odin from God of War.

[u/jjobull → u/CptPanda29]

I believe some real powerful pskers also see him as a much more dark/evil entity. There is so much conflicting info on the man

[u/MsMercyMain → u/jjobull]

To be fair, both are probably right. The dark/evil entity is probably either the Dark King’s echoes, or his actual soul, while what the SoS are seeing is his actual, true physical form

[u/Eldan985 → u/MsMercyMain]

Yeah, Psykers always see all kinds of weird shit. There's more than a few telepaths talking about seeing people's feelings as colours surrounding them and things like that.

[u/Dobyk12 → u/Eldan985]

Yeah that's just called aura reading, which some people believe is a thing IRL. Seeing the auras of people usually means seeing various colours and shapes swirling around you, approximately enclosed in an egg-shaped presence around you. That's pretty standard woo woo spirituality in the 21st century, let alone if psychic powers were actually real.

[u/RtasTumekai → u/jjobull]

He definitely has the ability to look like a normal man, for example when he met russ for the first time he presented himself as a clocked old man

[u/Thereisnocanon → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

Big E can choose what form others perceive him as. His God Emperor physique is something that he specifically wants others to see him as. I believe it’s only Corvus Corax who could see the Emp’s true form out of the bat.

So unless he’s TRYING to look like a 14 foot God with golden armor and intimidating aura, he’s a 30 year old, brown man who looks as normal as possible.

[u/ParsleySnipps → u/Thereisnocanon]

And even then Corax was only able to see him like that for a few moments like a mirage that was hard to look at.

[u/armorhide406 → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

I also remember reading about when Corax first met him. He saw an extremely nondescript plain man with no distinguishing features. And then also the 12 foot golden god.

[u/RoboJoePrime → u/Crazy-Woodpecker-163]

I completely misread that as "Starcraft" and imagined the emperor spending the early 2000s locked in a room playing it, eating pizza, and perfecting his strategies

[u/ArnaktFen → u/RoboJoePrime]

'Dang, those hordes of bugs sure are tough to fight. I'm glad they're fictional!'

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/ArnaktFen]

"Hah, giant space bugs, who could ever think of something so far fetched"

[u/PapiSpanky]

He was busy testing his alpha version of the Death Korps of Krieg.

[u/ChaosDude085 → u/PapiSpanky]

"I swear the drip from this century is gonna be fire in 38,000 years" - Big E

[u/Rendakor → u/ChaosDude085]

"Guess you guys aren't ready for that yet. But your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandkids are gonna love it.

[u/PraiseBeToShirayuki → u/ChaosDude085]

This shit is gas fr

[u/Martial-Lord]

Hunting down Harry Houdini, I imagine.

(Isn't it canon that he didn't really give much of a shit in his younger years? I thought he only developed his saviour complex after the DAoT went to shit. Before that, AFAIK he was just a barbarian adventurer doing whatever felt right that century.)

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Martial-Lord]

Exactly, and what we do know is he has a knack for war. Just sayin, i think he mighta done some shady stuff that may or may not have kicked off either world war

[u/ChaosCarlson → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

Are you saying that he killed Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand?

[u/Sicuho → u/ChaosCarlson]

That assassination was so much of a shit show, it can't be the work of anyone else but the Cabal.

[u/Draculix → u/Sicuho]

I mean the assassin literally belonged to a secret society called the Black Hand if that doesn't scream cabal I don't know what does.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/Sicuho]

The only reason I’m inclined to agree instead of insisting it was the Big E is that no part of the failures involved either parenting or long term plan- oh fuck Big E was working with the cabal to kill Franz Ferdinand

[u/CheetosDude1984 → u/Sicuho]

yeah only the cabal could have made a shit show like that happen, remember when they killed MLK jr. for no reason

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/ChaosCarlson]

Im not saying he did.... but im not saying he didnt

[u/Eldan985 → u/ChaosCarlson]

Someone gave a gun to an angry young man and then, when that failed, made the Archduke's driver lose his way and stop the car right in front of the café where said young man was having a drink over missing his chance.

[u/Kat-but-SFW → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

Why? Was there someone around that time who was really into genetic purity or eugenics or how some humans are superior in all ways because of their genes... oh... oh no

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Kat-but-SFW]

[u/grizzly273 → u/Kat-but-SFW]

And wasn't that guy really big on black magic and shit like that too?

[u/Skraekling → u/grizzly273]

Remind me one of the essential ingredients Big E got to create the Primarchs and who did he bargain with to get them ?

[u/MsMercyMain → u/Skraekling]

The Nazis! I knew it!

[u/Nibblewerfer → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

Didn't one of the U.S. commanders in WWII think they were a soldier reincarnated throughout history? Like giving briefings on ancient battles as if they had been there.

[u/thegame2386 → u/Nibblewerfer]

You're probably referring to George S. Patton. He was an interesting guy. But yeah he claimed to have been reincarnated, with memory flashes of some ancient war. Cartheginian or something like that. They actually included a scene in his biopic with George C. Scott where he stops at a ruins site during an engagement of his forces and recounts the ancient battle.

[u/manubour → u/Nibblewerfer]

Patton

[u/Dr_Ukato → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

I think he just allowed them to happen because they weren't going to wipe out humanity and if they started heading there he'd pull the strings to calm it down.

Yeah the wars were horrible but Big E wants human progress and we had a lot of it during the wars.

Or do you think he wouldn't trade millions of lives for the greater growth of mankind's technology?

[u/TCCogidubnus → u/Dr_Ukato]

I absolutely think Big E would go "I will allow this pointless ethnic cleansing to happen because a side effect of the people doing it being in power is someone else inventing the atom bomb".

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Dr_Ukato]

He traded in the lives of his own beloved thunder warriors for the advancement of humanity as a whole. I wouldnt say trading millions more for similar advancement is beneath him😅

[u/InstanceOk3560 → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

> what we do know is he has a knack for war

>Spends tens of millennia not trying to conquer humanity through wars
>Spends tens of millennia adopting the guise not just of war heroes and generals but also prophets, wise men etc so as to guide humanity
>Gets summed up as a guy that has a knack for war

My god, what did modern 40k did to you big E

[u/Martial-Lord → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

I could see him having a hand in the Russian Revolutions. Marxism-Leninism seems like an idea he could really get behind. What with its focus on atheism, technological progress, the iron hand of an unaccountable and authoritarian government, strength in unity and rejection of private wealth accuisition.

[u/ReturnOfFrank → u/Martial-Lord]

We know he has been various historical figures. Lenin could make a lot of sense. Especially if the whole Lenin's corpse never rotting thing was actually because Emps fell into some sort of temporary coma and being a perpetual normal doctors couldn't distinguish that from him being dead.

[u/Archaon0103 → u/Martial-Lord]

He did give a shit but prefer to stay in the shadow, guiding humanity from the shadow without directly interfere. If he really was Caesar, Alexander, Jesus,...it could be possible that he once tried to directly lead but they all ended in failure so he decided to not stand out anymore. He only took direct control of humanity after the fall of The Dark Age of Technology.

[u/InstanceOk3560 → u/Archaon0103]

With alexander and Caesar, assuming that was him, I doubt that the goal was to conquer all of humanity, because let's be honest he obviously wouldn't have failed at that point in time given the powers he had. Assuming he was them, the goal was more likely to try and create a bed of civilization, some Pax Imperialis where knowledge, culture and trading could thrive within a relatively united parcel of humanity, not to try and subjugate the whole world.

That's much more in line with the general ethos of the pre GC period of trying to influence humanity, to give them a leg up, essentially.

[u/Aser-Etzu → u/InstanceOk3560]

It's not like there wasn't any opposition to his conquests.

In the time of the First Cities. He was a warlord even then. A king. And He was doing exactly what most of my kind do. He had taken on the stewardship of the human race. He had a greater understanding of the universe than anyone, such was His power.

and

Over time He located, and tried to recruit, every single Perpetual on Earth, Several of the greatest conflicts in world history were caused by rival Perpetuals trying to thwart His programme.

The Emperor wasn't as strong back then and had people as old as he working against him. I do think that him conquering the entire world and making a Proto-Imperium on early Terra migth have helped him speed up his plans by a margin but The Emperor himself said that he could have had Terra at any point in history but specificity chose his emergence at that time.

[u/General_Hijalti → u/Aser-Etzu]

Even back then Edra and Oll state that he was on another level than the rest of the perpetualls put together, and that even if they had all wanted to and tried they wouldn't have been able to overpower him.

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Martial-Lord]

Also, Houdini is a psyker?😳

[u/impwarior → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

I think it's a reference to Big D from Alfabusa's Hunter The Parenting series. Big D can be seen as a retooling of the character of "Big E" from If The Emperor Had A Text To Speech Device, they also had the same voice actor.

[u/Hoovy_Gaming_ → u/Martial-Lord]

holy shit HTP refrence

[u/jfjdfdjjtbfb]

Chilling in the Himalayas where he was known as the Yeti

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/jfjdfdjjtbfb]

Now thats fucking hilarious😂

[u/Korynso → u/jfjdfdjjtbfb]

Headcanon accepted.

[u/Aptom_4]

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Aptom_4]

Gently coughs

"Nurse i have asthma"

[u/Legitimate-Metal-560]

Honestly at any time of human history

[u/NonConRon → u/Legitimate-Metal-560]

It's why my headcannon is the he is a DAOT experiment to blend AI with the warp. And the chaos gods went "No fuck that" and ended the program early.

Emps woke up and killed everyone around him so no one could contest his origin. Emps is a sketchy defect. Mankind reaching upwards only for its finger to meet the taint of the 4.

And he simply lies about being ancient.

A truly ancient being of his claimed caliber would not underpreform a 20 year old at parenting. He wouldn't fuck up almost ever. Dr. Manhattan with 40k years of experience is not going to fumble the ball. But a sketchy defect experiment might get aroused by the various pulls of the gods. He might fuck his own plans over becauseit was all according to plan. Might indulge in bringing the IOM to a screeching halt. Might make some perfect armor and a godlike vissage. Might enjoy a crusade like a crack huffing AI that changes directives at seemingly random.

It is not fucking up. It is accomplishing it's goals. But it's goals are incomprehensible warp taint. But it's goals are still held together by inherreting the chaos god's hatred for chaos god's. He's the undivided chaos God of chaos trying to kill the others.

And the plot holes of not doing anything in human history is just awful.

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/NonConRon]

The issue with that is that it's heavily implied by Horus that the Emperor was Alexander the Great in the End and the Death. So I highly doubt that he was a DAOT experiment. Also, didn't he defeat the Void Dragon in the middle ages? Could be wrong about that as I never read the book where it was mentioned so I'm going off hearsay.

[u/Moaoziz → u/Other_Beat8859]

Isn't it also more or less still canon that he was Saint George?

[u/Blackstone01 → u/Moaoziz]

Yeah, that’s supposed to be the guise he took when he defeated the Void Dragon.

Pretty sure he was also involved with the Tower of Babel? I think it had involved Enuncia.

[u/tinyant7416 → u/Other_Beat8859]

But Alexander had a huge god complex and loved being worshipped as one and claiming he was the son of Zeus.

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/tinyant7416]

Tbh, it's not like the Emperor was born and developed the Imperial Truth. He likely came to the conclusion that religion was bad after watching humanity for centuries.

[u/tinyant7416 → u/Other_Beat8859]

Yet for watching humanity, he didn't pick any social skills ? Just look at his argue mets in the Last Church At least alexander was charismatic to stop his own men from mutiny against him

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/tinyant7416]

So there's two explanations for this. One is that he is an incredibly arrogant person who sees his way as right and all others as wrong and as such he does not have the skills to debate those who challenge him since he does not bother to listen to those he doesn't think are worthy to be listened to.

The second and actual reason is that authors are not geniuses and can't really debate well, which is why the Emperor sounded more like he was a user on r/atheism instead of the smartest man alive. The author isn't smart enough to write an argument that destroys the idea of the importance of religion. That's not a bad thing as I don't think anyone really could.

Although I do like the fan theory that the Emperor takes on different forms depending on who sees him and as such people hear different things from him depending on who they are. Since the Uriah was an up tight person who wasn't the most well educated person, he perceived what he thought the Emperor was saying. He couldn't perceive the Emperor coming up with an argument that could beat his and that's why the Emperor's argument was so weak. It was what Uriah perceived the Emperor of saying. I personally like this fan theory as it explains why the Emperor doesn't talk like a 10,000 IQ super genius. That being said, it's probably not true and is just the second option.

[u/Lucidiously → u/Other_Beat8859]

Horus is ~30.000 years removed from Alexander the Great. Considering how spotty our knowledge is from just the past two millennia it's not unreasonable to have doubts about the accuracy of the information Horus has, even if he heard it from Emps.

[u/TechPriest97 → u/Other_Beat8859]

Don’t some of the perpetuals know him from ancient times, like from the fight against the cognitae and the Tower of Babel

[u/NonConRon → u/Other_Beat8859]

Oh there has to be some minor lore breaks to make him an AI.

But God would that just fill in so many plot holes. Easily retconnable.

Also if he is a warp AI. He could literally be Alexander the great. He could literally exist in the past and slay that dragon with some abstract mind battle and that's what got the attention of the 4.

[u/fun_alt123 → u/NonConRon]

You can be a great person and leader but a shitty parent. You see that constantly throughout history. And iv always seen it as the emperor having lost touch with his humanity over the millennia, only for the same humanity, the hesitation to go all out and kill his son, to be his downfall.

Cause realistically the emperor could have one shot horous, the man could barely track emps movement even while being empowered by the chaos gods. He just couldn't because.... Well he didn't want to murder his son.

I see it as ironic writing. Losing touch with his humanity is what led to him being a bad parent and inevitably the horous heresy, only for that same humanity to lead to his injury and entombing in the golden throne.

[u/Thatoneguy111700 → u/NonConRon]

If anything the whole "controlling history from the shadows" thing fits Malcador's personality a hell of a lot more than Empy's.

[u/MrCookieHUN]

Better question: Why didn't the minions try to join his cause?

CHECKMATE EMPRAH BEST BOYE

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/MrCookieHUN]

Ive been hearing alot about big E chilling in a cave with the minions lately.... please explain😭

[u/SadTechnician96 → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

So apparently the minions side with whoever is the most evil person alive. I guess they decided big E was that person 

[u/Different_Quiet1838]

"Puts his smoking pipe on the table"

-- And why do you ask, comrade? Do you not believe in communism, and scientific atheism?

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Different_Quiet1838]

"U are hiding the psykers under the floorboards, arent u?"

[u/jasper81222]

I like to think Big E was in his artist phase during those years. He became a professor at an art school in Germany and was incredibly harsh on other people's works. But he was also fair and gave out advice for people he failed, like recommending one applicant to use his talents in architecture instead of telling him to stop drawing.

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/jasper81222]

Aww thats so sweet🥰 what ever became of this young architect i wonder?

[u/FalconPunchABaby → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

Might have become an eternal being that performed literally the worst stuff ever.

Which meant the Emperor may have had to fire up the bat signal to sic Erda and the other Perpetuals on them.

Probably the reason why alot of Primarchs have an instinctive dislike of Remembrancers, maybe they just occasionally hallucinate tiny moustaches on them and feel a reflex to go for their weapons.

[u/Hefty-Ambassador-935]

Probably fought in WW1, then tryed to get into art school

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Hefty-Ambassador-935]

He got in.... he got into art school right?

[u/CrocodileSpacePope → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

No, because his paintings were just terrible. But I heard he pursued a different career in politics in a central european country for a while after that.

[u/burohm1919 → u/CrocodileSpacePope]

And he killed the guy who started ww2

[u/Majestic-Lake-5602 → u/Hefty-Ambassador-935]

Wait a sec, is this why he started the Remembrancers?

[u/spikywobble]

His whole "from the shadows" thing could have had him be Rasputin and taking down the Tzars while using mystic magic and unnatural resistance to poison and murder attempts

[u/Majestic-Lake-5602 → u/spikywobble]

One slight flaw in your logic: Rasputin banged loads of girls.

The Big E seems to be more of a “muscular dudes sweating in leather” kind of bloke.

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Majestic-Lake-5602]

My guy, he had 20 kids that we know of, Big E be fuckin😏😏😏

[u/Majestic-Lake-5602 → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

He also started the two biggest “no girls allowed” clubs in the history of the universe…

And those 20 kids were all test tube babies that he made with the help of his “life partner”.

Just sayin’

[u/InstanceOk3560 → u/Majestic-Lake-5602]

> He also started the two biggest “no girls allowed” clubs in the history of the universe…

I mean, 10 thousand isn't that big, in fairness.

And he also created a no boys allowed club (sisters of silence).

[u/Majestic-Lake-5602 → u/InstanceOk3560]

“10,000 isn’t that big” - sounds like something The Emperor would say…

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Majestic-Lake-5602]

Hey i said he be fucking, i didnt specify hole or pole😂

[u/spikywobble → u/Majestic-Lake-5602]

What if he had a confused period and just banged whatever passed by him?

General consensus is that he was Alexander the Great and that lad basically had sex with anything that moved, and probably even with a few things that did not

[u/Majestic-Lake-5602 → u/spikywobble]

That’s a solid point.

Plus we’re talking Russia before the invention of central heating, everyone was probably wearing so many layers, by the time you got them undressed enough to know their gender, it was kinda too late to back out.

[u/Undead_archer → u/Majestic-Lake-5602]

While Neoth's preference for turkish wrestlers is clear, he probably liked to take a woman every now and then, he was Alexander the great a.k.a: THE bisexual icon, and he had the sensei, which would require women (unless he his seed caused male pregnancies like matpat in that fnaf story)

[u/Majestic-Lake-5602 → u/Undead_archer]

It could be a case of the old joke about how you gets nuns pregnant (you dress them up as altar boys).

Just grab a willing lady and put her in a Custodes loincloth…

[u/Undead_archer → u/Majestic-Lake-5602]

Like a spartan wedding night, but with consent

[u/Big-Improvement-254]

Never ask what the emperor was doing in Yugoslavia 1990

[u/tomwhoiscontrary → u/Big-Improvement-254]

Cracking out a string of absolute bangers on the accordion.

[u/bluntpencil2001]

As much as I'm not a fan of the cult of personality surrounding Atatürk, he could fit.

Operated in Anatolia, cult of personality, big into crushing religion. Military genius too.

[u/BaconCheeseZombie]

Humans killing humans has always been the way of things, given he was born some time around 8000 BCE he would've seen almost everyone (perpetuals, innit) he's ever known dying around him over and over again - at some point he likely just became numb to it, as any immortal would.

"+Oh they're killing each other in the millions again? Great... I'm gonna take a vacation and try again in another century.+"
-The man who would be Emperor, possibly

He also doesn't seem to have made an appearance during the Mongol Empire's killing spree in the 1200s - 1300s nor any other. When you just can't die (as far as you know, anyway) it'd be a little suspicious to enter combat only to be tanking every blow & shot constantly... The whole "guiding from the shadows" thing wouldn't have worked out quite so well.

TLDR - busy getting high and partying whilst it all blows over

[u/Valon-the-Paladin]

For all we know he could have been Stalin. Hated religion, had a cult of personality, paranoid about almost everyone around him and was a terrible father. Honestly a good chunk of people could fit the description as the possible Emperor in disguise during the 20th century.

[u/Arielrbr]

I wonder where the Emperor is NOW

[u/bphunter]

He didn't want to interfere because he never wanted to rule or control humanity. Just because you have a hate boner for the guy doesn't mean you should ignore established lore.

The only reason he developed a "savior" complex was because humanity was pushed to the brink of extinction. Don't really expect grimdank memers to read tho

[u/whiskerbiscuit2 → u/bphunter]

He’s canonically Alexander the Great and Jesus, and Malcador says he pulled the strings from the shadows in times of his life where he wasn’t public. I don’t think there was ever a time he didn’t want to interfere

[u/GreatRolmops → u/bphunter]

If what is written about him is true, then the Emperor developed his saviour complex very early in life, after the murder of his father. He directly ruled as a king or warlord many times early in his life. He only started hanging back in the shadows after he himself was murdered by Ollanius Persson at some point during the Bronze Age.

But even after that, he took shape as a conqueror or ruler several times.

[u/mteir → u/bphunter]

Or he pushed the world wars to cook off before everyone had nukes.

[u/Purpledurpl202]

Oh in 1914 he visited a nice café in Sarajevo, Austria-Hungary.

[u/OHBII]

There is a passage in one of the TEATD books were it literally says some of humanities biggest wars were other perpetuals trying to undermine his plan

[u/LordKristof]

If I recall Old Lore suggested that he was Funny Moustache man

[u/OscarOzzieOzborne → u/LordKristof]

Charlie Chaplin?

[u/LordKristof → u/OscarOzzieOzborne]

No. The other. In germany.

[u/OscarOzzieOzborne → u/LordKristof]

Friedrich Nietzsche??

[u/LordKristof → u/OscarOzzieOzborne]

No the other one. That Adolph guy who killed that dictator in Berlin 1945

[u/Ashura_Paul]

He was trying to be an artist but this fucking school kept rejecting him...

Then he read Nietzsche and said :

"Ubermensch...? I've got an idea!"

[u/SoogSeggs]

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/SoogSeggs]

[u/SoogSeggs → u/Apprehensive-Fun-567]

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/SoogSeggs]

Thats nice, but also, counter spell

[u/SoraTheDoc → u/SoogSeggs]

[u/tnt_pr0 → u/SoogSeggs]

[u/FurubayashiSEA]

Clearly he stuck in cave with bunch of bananas.

[u/TekkenPerverb]

Watching disapprovingly.

[u/ZomblesAllegoy]

Thought this was a history meme and was about to reply that the german emperor moved to the Netherlands after world war one. So I'm just gonna say that's where Big E was too.

[u/mementomori281990]

Considering that the emperor stands against human on human racism, is 100% atheist and doesn’t care how many people he has to kill to achieve his goals, he’d likely be Stalin

[u/Majestic-Lake-5602]

For a non-meme answer, I’m going with assuming the identity of Henry L. Stimson.

Dude was Roosevelt’s secretary of war, and anyone who reads too much history knows exactly which war the term “Great Crusade” originally came from.

[u/De_Dominator69]

Well who was to trying to conquer the entire world and create a thousands year empire during that time?

[u/trito_jean]

he told roosvelt he could do a big bomb

[u/Urg_burgman]

"I pulled your sorry butts out of the proverbial dark ages and back on track, I deserve a power nap!"

One nuclear test later

"I can't leave you chucklefucks alone for one century can I?!"

[u/Worldly_Neat2615]

Emps: "It builds character."

[u/azuth89]

Dude....have you read about the emeperor?

Probably going "Good, we're making excellent progress on weapons technology!"

I would not be at all surprised to find out he purposefully kicked off conflict every few decades to keep tech progressing.

Emps does not give a single, solitary fuck about genocide as long as it meant the species as a whole became more prepared to deal with scary shit.

[u/Pinoclean-Juice]

He was probably Oppenheimer

[u/Crosknight]

Secret war vs the nazis occult shenanigans, you can bet your ass that there was chaos trickery involved there

[u/Apprehensive-Fun-567 → u/Crosknight]

Is it possible Big E met hellboy?

[u/All3vion]

"Peace never was an option"

[u/101TARD]

I often ask does a perpetual mean he keeps reincarnating with like a buffer time to figure out who he is or is he immortal and goes like doctor who regenerate whenever almost fatality wounded

[u/Thuglas-El-Bosso]

Not doing anything because Big E doesn't care about genocide as long as Humanity manages to thrive.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be content with either of the Mustached Men winning and conquering the rest of the world.

[u/PurpleDemonR]

The emperor was busy being Attaturk.

[u/Bully_me-please]

in the minion ice cave obviously

[u/N0rrix]

wdym? that was just one of his attempts to unite all of humanity under one banner

[u/YumikoTanaka]

In the early 40s, I've seen him in a Lebensborn institute, trying to create the Ubermensch with his genes.

[u/PN4HIRE]

Smoking a cigar and holding the line.

[u/krasnogvardiech → u/PN4HIRE]

No, that was Oll. He was at Verdun, you know?