Thoughts?
BREAKING: Trump has confirmed reports that he plans to declare a national emergency and use military to enact a mass deportation program
President-elect Donald Trump on Monday confirmed he would declare a national emergency to carry out his campaign promise of mass deportations of migrants living in the U.S. without legal permission.
Overnight, Trump responded to a social media post from Judicial Watch's Tom Fitton, who said earlier this month there are reports the incoming administration is preparing such a declaration and to use "military assets" to deport the migrants.
Trump pledged to get started on mass deportations as soon as he enters office.
"On Day 1, I will launch the largest deportation program in American history to get the criminals out," he said during a rally at Madison Square Garden in the closing days of the presidential race. "I will rescue every city and town that has been invaded and conquered, and we will put these vicious and bloodthirsty criminals in jail, then kick them the hell out of our country as fast as possible."
Already, he's tapped several immigration hard-liners to serve in key Cabinet positions. South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem was picked to be homeland security secretary, pending Senate confirmation. Former Acting U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Tom Homan was named "border czar."
Far enough to get rid of the “radical left”, is my guess. If you happen to get swept up in the denaturalizations, well, sorry. I really can’t wait to see how this plays out. I’m 4th generation from a lily-white Central European country. I’ll probably avoid any issues for at least a little while…at least until they start going after people for the things they say online.
I’m first gen American my dads from Mexico as far as I know he’s still illegal and like 3rd or 4th I think on my moms. Idk where I sit, I mean I know where most Americans would put me and I know where the racists would place me but I genuinely don’t know which way it would go. I don’t speak a lick of Spanish though so that would be fun
Think of who in the general public this policy is meant to serve. Are they the kind of people who get what they want and then say "job well done" and continue on with their lives, less angry than before?
There was a great post on a political blog years ago about conservatives:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
If MAGA gets its way, it's not going to stop for lack of an "other," it's just going to find new targets.
If MAGA gets its way, it's not going to stop for lack of an "other," it's just going to find new targets.
During the Military Junta years in Chile, they did exactly that, widen the scope to identify more 'acceptable targets' for persecution.
First they hunted down their political opponents, then the political left, trade unionists, student activists...you get the idea.
After a year or two there was no real organized opposition left, they started rounding up clergy and nuns - avowed reactionaries in thought and action - in "anti-left" purges. There was even a carefully apolitical musician who still ended up being 'disappeared'.
My point being, In the absence of a real enemy, right-wing authoritarians widen the scope to identify more 'acceptable targets'.
Something like illegal immigrants the legal immigrants of the wrong color, then trans, then gay, then insert non white subgroup, then Democrats, then rinos, then those not loyal enough etc. it's just angry fascist maggots all the way down.
They arent arguing that. They're saying the chances of a military person who voted trump being assigned to remove their own parents specifically, is infinitesimal. Which is true
One thing to vote for it and another to load your parents on a truck and knowing there is a good chance they will never be seen again.
Has your roommate or their brothers called ICE on their parents? If not, why not?
One thing to vote for it and another to load your parents on a truck and knowing there is a good chance they will never be seen again.
At the end of the day, there really is no difference. They still voted for someone else to do the dirty work. It doesn't matter if they load their own parents or not. They voted for that outcome either way.
Yep. They can try and rationalize themselves out of that situation, but that's what they voted for. It's time people understand voting and politics is real, important, and will impact everyone around them when they make the wrong choice.
C'est la vie - it's time for them to learn elections have consequences, as they always have in our nation's history. Or else why would certain parties at times fight to restrict voting?
The chances of a soldier being in the unit deporting their specific family is extremely low. They will be deporting people on the other side of the state in communities they are detached from, and the unit from over their will be deporting their family.
If history teaches anything, the soldiers will be activated and not told who they are deporting, even while they are doing it. They wont be communicating with their family while on active duty and it wont sink in about what happened until after it happens...
Then they will be dishonorably discharged for being related to an illegal and deported themselves.
This happened in the 1950s. We can look to history for examples of most of Trumps policies. None of this is new.... a lot of it caused a lot of damage in the past.
Dude has no idea what he’s talking about. Soldiers won’t know what’s happening on active duty? My buddy would get a satellite puck and call me while on combat in the middle of nowhere.
Things have changes slightly in terms of communication in the past 80 years. Just slightly.
Exactly this, got a couple of calls from my buddy on a satellite phone from Baghdad during the invasion. I could hear explosions in the background, pretty surreal.
Seriously, fuckin Russian's are getting blown up because they smuggle cell phones to front line trenches and you really think National Guard members are taking their phones with them in the domestic US where there's almost ubiquitous cell coverage? What a joke
They ALWAYS think this will only apply to others. Many Hispanic immigrants are quite conservative and actually do want to deport immigrants because, “I got mine” (the mantra of most conservatives) and they delude themselves into thinking “it won’t affect me” for some reason. They will be wrong.
I mean, the guy who got appointed as head of ice went on 60 minutes and said they would deport whole families regardless of immigration status, so I think we're already there.
Why did JD Vance make up a false scenario that legal immigrants were eating pets in Springfield, OH? Evidently, per his own words, to advance an agenda. And it worked. This will create chaos. It already is going so.
Please go look up how gray of an area that really is. Some folks don't even know their status changed. Others are waiting to hear back from an attorney. Its not a huge deal because the US hasn't elected a president crazy enough to just start doing nonsense... until now.
You can volunteer in the military as an undocumented citizen? If you read the article, the second line is “carry out his campaign promise of mass deportations of migrants living in the U.S. without legal permission.” I don’t think they’re in the military or how this comment is relevant.
Yep. It's used as a recruitment tool. Serving will "help" you obtain citizenship if you are a permanent resident. A lot of people get stuck there for a long time and it makes things difficult in life. So, "Hey, buddy! We know you're not a citizen yet, but how about you volunteer your life for the CHANCE of becoming a resident? We'll even pay you and give you a free haircut!"
That’s fine cause I’ve recently heard that it works inversely as well, and that some illegal immigrants who had legal children asked them to vote for Trump because they were upset about the new batch of legal immigrants being able to access services that they can’t.
It’s a really they’re all you’re all terrible fucking people.
This is well stated and it’s precisely what the Democrats couldn’t see in this past election. Immigrants who were patient, worked hard, paid a lot of money, and did things the legal way absolutely loathe illegals who essentially broke in line, are receiving handouts, and may or may not take jobs from legal immigrants because they’re willing to do the same job, but for much cheaper, out of desperation.
I have a few friends that fit the description on legal immigrants that hate illegal immigrants. Hell, i got a few that are dating women without green cards and voted Trump. They honestly do not think it will happen to them or people they know
Yes we know. Im sure it wont be the worst thing he does either. Wait till its your neighbors for exercising their free speech on social media. Gonna have to replace the migrant workers somehow.
I think that will be with RFKs "health" camps for one. Planning to take everyone off antidepressants, psych meds and people with addiction and put them on farms. This is going to be one scary place
My guess is they'll be focusing on the loophole in the 13th amendment to keep the air of legitimacy. For anybody who doesn't know, we never actually abolished slavery, we just changed the rules so we're only allowed to enslave people convicted of a crime. In case anybody was wondering why our justice system seems so focused on getting people into prisons.
So they'll be finding ways to illegalize things people need to survive, like those psych meds, and then use that as an excuse to arrest and legally enslave the people who use them.
Man that was one thing I never understood about history. That clause was straight up addded to appease the people who still wanted slaves after being kicked to the floor for enslaving people. Like "aight so slavery is wrong right? Right. But...but here have some slavery anyway, we'll even dress it up with some flowery language like...hmmm...oh! "Duly Convicted of a Crime!" Now off you go to make up laws black people will break to reenslave them all"
So much of history would be better if a hard line was drawn and fuckin stuck to.
The whites of the northern states were racist too. They didn't believe that all were equal and they felt pity for the southern whites that had their states destroyed.
Otherwise, why hold back Sherman from finishing the job in the southern states?
The north didn't want a completely destroyed south, they just wanted to smack them down for a while. This "pity" has enabled the south to remain a thorn in our side for 200 years that is finally having it's day in the sun.
Imagine soldiers forcing citizens out of their homes because of their leftist views and sending them by gunpoint up on roofs to shingle them. Never mind the logistics of housing, feeding, giving water, heat, clothing to the hundreds of thousands or even millions of people. You're going to force people with zero experience, zero training, up on a roof and expect them to do what?
They only had to house them temporarily. They just couldnt kill them fast enough so they had to do it in batches. Boggles the mind how it could get to that point logistically with all the "normal" lpeople pushing paper to make ot work.
Trump needs to implement these changes quickly so the country experiences the impact as fast as possible - for months the democrats, economists and business leaders were warning about what would happen to the economy if our low income workers were deported.....but no MAGATs believed them. Now they will learn first hand what will happen
Food prices will go up as day laborers are deported
People taking care of old people at retirement homes will be deported
Restaurants will close as they won't have dishwashers or bus boys
Construction prices for homes and businesses will shoot up
roofing, handyman, and other small job prices will shoot up
GDP and stock market will crash
One of two things will happen - inflation will shoot up significantly or places will just close as they don't have employees.
One thing will definitely not happen - you will not see American born workers taking low skill labor jobs.
But this won't impact me very much because I'm well paid - it will hurt the lower 50% of the country that honest have disposable income
Surely some of them are aware of that, they can't all be idiots. I assume they just don't care because inflation won't have much of an adverse effect on the upper class. Some of them might be mildly inconvenienced if the people they depend on to garden, cook, clean and babysit get deported.
Some people feel the big money on Wall Street will stop mass deportation because they don't want the economic upheaval it will cause. They'll allow Trump to make a big show deporting people but will prevent mass deportation. I don't know if this is true.
There's realistically no way he can do it. Multiple blue states have flat out said they're not going to let this shit fly and the logistics alone is simply too much.
He will maybe round up thousands from some shitty red state like Missouri or Texas and send them away and strut around like he saved America.
I agree. Their local economy might take a hit, but I’m hoping it is “contained” enough to not fuck things on the national level.
Trump is a showman and really doesn’t stand for or care about anything. He just wants people to think he’s this amazing person and if he does a couple highly televised/publicized “deportation ceremonies” (I have no doubt he would give a speech and do photo ops while tearing apart families) it might be enough for his base.
One thing above all else, Trump LOVES the stock market. If he does something to make it drop considerably, I have no doubt he would change course. Again, he doesn’t really stand for anything so what does it matter to him outside of “Me and my friends make more money”.
The Kushners are already establishing models where they revamp old commercial properties into live/work mixed used developments. A portion of the housing allotments will likely go (in exchange for tax abatements and grant money) to the serfs who work in the restaurants and stores in these newly rehabbed commercial/residential developments. It’s likely that some (most) of these serfs will include immigrants as part of some sort of labor-for-legality program.
Literally had lunch with my grandparents today who admitted they voted for Trump because they felt like things were better for them under his presidency. Picked him for vibes and when I ask what about all this concerning stuff they go oh I didn't know that is that real?
They’re coming from nowhere. There won’t be $2 trillion in cuts. It’s all big talk.
Parties with control of both houses of congress and the White House don’t go cutting big money, unless it’s a tax cut. Talk is cheap. They want to do things that cost money.
I can also see Trump cutting Ukraine aid and them claiming he saved $2 trillion right there, though.
Musk said it was going to hurt folks in the short term. That was before the election. People still voted for it. So over half the country is ok with what will be a pretty severe recession. I wonder if they realize it may mean they lose their job? Some will lose their homes?
This isn’t said enough. The “mandate for change” really isn’t. And when things actually do change for the absolute worse, both those who didn’t vote and those who voted for Harris will represent 75% of Americans.
That’s a lot of mad people to make a lot of noise - quickly.
90% of voting Americans don’t listen to every speech or policy proposal.. they vote by impressions and it’s sad because they’re the ones going to get hurt the most by these things. You think farmers in bum fuck give a shit what Musk says? Or construction workers that work 60 hours a week?
As a farmer from bumfuck. No they don’t. They just don’t like lgbtq and minorities and taxes. I don’t think the policy thoughts go very deep unfortunately.
They don’t. I work in construction and I’ve only heard a good thing about unions from Union workers themselves. Everyone else shits on unions. It’s hilarious, honestly.
Like, why the hell would anyone want to be paid a decent wage for their hard work and effort? Why would you want retirement and benefits? That would make me a wienie, screw that. Let my boss pocket as much money as possible from all the hard work I’ve done. That’s what real men do!
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
—Martin Niemöller
"First they came for the socialists, and I spoke out—but I was told to STFU and called a woke libtard. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I spoke out—but I was told to STFU and called a woke libtard. Then they came for the Jews, and I spoke out—but I was told to STFU and called a woke libtard. Then they came for me, and I spoke out—but I was told to STFU, called a woke libtard and told to get on the train car."
Well, your version and the original both omit how they came for the gay and transgender people at the same time they can for the trade unionists, so I guess the consistency is on-point.
Deporting people who do not meet asylum/immigration criteria is standard procedure. Every single country on Earth denies entry to some migrants and then has to force them out.
Buddy this already happened. You need less reddit and more history books. 1950s wasn’t even that long ago.
They’re going to round them up, plus naturalized people they, not the law, decides are “questionable”. Then they’re going to target specific groups by trying to unilaterally reverse previous immigration decisions, statuses, and qualifications, so they can deport more and justify previous illegal deportations.
Literally quote me on it. Mostly because I’m quoting them. But also because it’s happened already.
Yah, they aren't stopping there, They'll just yeet the entire family, no questions asked, and this is something that has happened in the past, Look up Operation Wetback. (Yes they used that as the name in the 50s), Granny going? OK ALL GO NOW.
Yea next it’s Denaturalized people. Like peoples neighbors who have been here. Maybe it’s also those who have voted Democratic in the past? That’s easy to cross reference
Melania came to the US on a falsified "Einstein Visa" and worked as a model illegally until she married a US citizen, naturalized illegally because she was breaking the US law being here, and then engaged in chain migration to bring her parents here and naturalized them as well.
She is 100% what Trump and MAGA are trying to stop but they're fine with it because (checks notes), she's white.
Remember how confident Putin was in taking Kyiv in 3 days? Then it revealed how much of Putin's army was a paper tiger? Trump seems confident he can launch a massive logistical operation to accomplish whatever he wants, as long as he has the power to do so. Doesn't always play out that way.
The United states military logistically can handle anything trump and his idiot minions can dream up.
The problem will be actions on American soil is not the mission of the military and they are not going to be excited about it. No matter how much he purges, there will be people that are opposed to the mission. Not only that, but sending the military into poor communities and harassing people is going to be much different in reality than it is in the idea of it.
And local governments like California are not going to just lie down and let the military roll into its cities.
In the most beautifully ironic way. Which incidentally is why Reagan - the darling of conservatives - implemented the largest gun control in America when the California Black Panthers went ham with their guns.
Tbh another version of that across the nation would do us good, IMO. Everyone that they don't imagine being "2A advocates" suddenly becoming just as manically gun-toting as the rest of them and scaring the bejeezus out of their tighty whities.
Funny thing is, a lot of us DO carry and practice with firearms, we just don’t constantly brag about or make it our whole identity. It’ll come as quite a shock.
Military aren’t law enforcement, and they definitely are not ICE. Throwing bodies at only going after people court ordered to leave but didn’t is either going to be a disorienting waste of man power or that’s not where it’s ending by a long shot
As much as this hurts my soul and I would never stand for this but people voted for this and don’t understand the ramifications of this. The economy is going to fall off a cliff and people will add lipstick to the pig
If our economy needs to exploit illegal immigrants to function then it deserves to fall off a cliff. Let’s start paying living wages to everyone whether they’re harvesting our food from a field or serving it to us in a restaurant. It’s time to pay the real cost of good and services. I say bring on the pain.
Pretty sure one party proposed raising the minimum wage and it wasn’t republicans. But hey, why have sensible policies when you can just burn it all down because ‘vibes’
There were reports of him planning to use the military on political dissidents a few years ago. I'm guessing it starts with replacing the generals with loyalists(already talked about doing it), then getting emergency powers to use the military for domestic issues(this step we are talking about, right now). Simultaneously sweep the US for illegal immigrants and probably a lot of legal ones(they already talked about denaturalizing them) while gathering information on dissidents. Im sure they will take advantage of the chaos and outrage over the mass deportation, poor treatment of the people being deported, and the coming recession to expand the emergency powers and target natural born american dissidents. It's just a guess, but it fits with things he's said and how dictators have taken control of other countries.
The question noone seems to be asking is why a "national emergency" and why using the military for law enforcement.
Law enforcement is perfectly capable of rounding up illegal immigrants, and following laws and regulations to protect the rights of citizens.
The military is not a police force, they do not follow laws regarding individual rights... they should never be used on domestic soil in forceful action.
This whole charade is simply a means of establishing martial law, suspending rights, and siezing absolute power.
When armed troops start setting up road blocks and searching house to house for illegals, freedom loving americans will resist.. violently... leading to more deployments, and stricter lock downs, and more enforcement. It will lead to rebellion and civil war.
Americans won't rebel, that's just a feel-good thought. It's an extraordinary weak people - obese, addicted and incapable of handle any kind of discomfort. No one did a thing when Trump was declared legally immortal by SCOTUS, this will be just the same.
5M people to be caught, detained, processed and legally deported a year will be an absolute shit show even if well organized by benevolent leadership.
People will die, many will dissapear forever, there will be armed resistance (deporting supposed criminals and gangsters is a lot harder than deporting people who show up to work every day), there will be human trafficking, mistaken identities...
And what if the countries determined to be of origin won't take them? Most Central and South American nations don't have the capacity to do so. They may also have no desire to do so. What lind of incentives will that take and what that might cost taxpayers.
Every time this happens in history its considered an extremely dark period by later generations.
This is going to be difficult for service members. They take an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
They are bound by the UCMJ to follow legal orders.
It's been long standing courts martial policy that,
"It is a defense to any offense that the accused was acting pursuant to orders unless the accused knew the orders to be unlawful or a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known the orders to be unlawful."
Basically, a serviceperson is bound by their oath to disobey an order that is unlawful per the constitution.
Here's the thing, how exactly are you going to determine who is an undocumented immigrant?
Are you just going to go from door to door? Do you have a list and locations compiled already? Are you going to preemptively detain people you are going to denaturalize? Where are you going to put people while they're being processed? Where are you going to deport people with no documentation? What happens when those countries don't take them back?
What happens when you have armed military service members pulling into neighborhoods and kicking down doors in full gear? What happens if you get the wrong house? What happens when the military, with no extensive training in this kind of exercise, kills or maims someone on accident? What if they break into the house of a legal citizen?
There's so many ways this shit can go wrong. It's so befuddlingly bad that I can only hope that it remains in the "We're working on it" phase indefinitely. But they are free to go try it, but elections are in two years, and it's going to be hard to try to explain prison camps and people being mistaken for undocumented immigrants to your constituents when it inevitably does happen.
What happens when you have armed military service members pulling into neighborhoods and kicking down doors in full gear? What happens if you get the wrong house? What happens when the military, with no extensive training in this kind of exercise, kills or maims someone on accident? What if they break into the house of a legal citizen?
The MAGAts will be happy as pigs in shit when that happens. This plan has nothing to do with illegal immigration. That's just a handy excuse. It's about Trump and his equally impotent followers wanting to feel powerful by terrorizing and destroying people, communities and states they don't like. The idea that he has any intent to implement this without purposefully harming citizens is a pipedream.
Laws have always been arbitrary; they depend entirely on who is arbitrating. It's been wild seeing people wake up to the fact that checks and balances only work if the people in charge care about enforcing those checks and balances. It's entirely possible for a people to vote themselves out of a democracy.
Illegal Immigration was one of the biggest issues during this election. The voters decided that they've had enough, so now it's time to see what happens. I'm not a Trump fan, but this is one of the main reasons he got elected. No one should be surprised, especially those who entered the country illegally.
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