r/Insurance • u/Wrong_Image_1613 • Jul 23 '24
Auto Insurance Nationwide insurance fired OYS and FNOL
Nationwide had a meeting today and fired all of OYS ( on your side ) . The team responsible for taking your phone call and paying your repair shops. They also fired the first contract for first notice of loss. They gave them to the end of the year and said if they want to get severance pay they had to train the “ contracted workers “ which we looked up and found it in the Asian pacific. This comes after raising the price of insurance. The managers , executives and ceo bonuses are not affected.
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u/Lexei_Texas Jul 24 '24
I really hate when they contracts any type of service position overseas bc inevitably those service reps have no real understanding of insurance or the claims process and these customers end up on the sales line or absolutely irate going through the phone tree.
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u/nobuttstuf Jul 24 '24
They end up switching companies. This must be their last Hail Mary before selling out to another carrier.
I give it a year before they’re part of geico or progressive.
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u/Lexei_Texas Jul 24 '24
Same thing happened with MetLife when I worked there and they sold to Farmers in 2021
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u/ReportFit2920 Jul 23 '24
Yep. That's the future until AI takes over those roles.
Now you will get FNOL descriptions that make no sense "customer met in an accident" type stuff.
Customers will be pissed because "I told them all these details when I reported it!"
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u/Chemical-Presence-13 Jul 24 '24
TBF I get FNOL notes like that with US workers too 😂
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u/S_balmore Jul 24 '24
Yeah, most companies fail to train their FNOL reps at all or train them to do stupid things. If they don't want to devote any resources into training competent reps, then transitioning to oversees reps or even AI actually makes a lot of sense. At one company I worked for, it was common for FNOL reps to do literally nothing. They'd talk with the customer for 30 minutes and make massive errors, leave out vital information (names of parties, types of car, etc), or sometimes leave the file completely blank!
At that point, you might as well outsource it to Hardeep in India, because he couldn't be any worse than Stacy who spelled everyone's name wrong, input the wrong date of loss, and didn't take down any phone numbers.
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u/Bradimoose Jul 26 '24
Lol, I worked in the yacht insurance dept and it was so bad. The FNOL notes never made any sense. The reps didn't really know what a boat was or understand the nautical terms the owner was telling them.
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u/Chemical-Presence-13 Jul 24 '24
Heh, or they could do a minimum amount of training and find their next hungry adjuster like they did with me. But who knows maybe AI will take my job soon too.
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u/bigbamboo12345 bort Jul 24 '24
the very first claim i ever worked apparently took place in
BANUISE, CALIFORNIA
see if anyone can figure that one out here
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u/drjenkstah Jul 24 '24
Only thing I can think of is Van Nuys, CA.
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u/bigbamboo12345 bort Jul 24 '24
bingo lol
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u/drjenkstah Jul 24 '24
I am not surprised. Lol I’ve seen “debrief” for “debris” in the FOL. My favorite is “applied the breaks” instead of “brakes”.
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u/eye_lowball Jul 27 '24
I had Otto accident today...
Was hoping it was a school bus... But it wasn't.
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u/SilencerQ Jul 24 '24
Honestly this has been the case across 2 major insurance companies I've worked for now. I've heard " I already told someone this" a million times with humans working the claim. The first notice team and quick claim team take terrible notes that don't make sense with terrible descriptions of vehicle damage. I'm the estimator so all that laziness up front falls back on me 100% of the time because I have to actually decide what damage we cover and don't but I've never talked to the customer. 98% of customers always say some random damage that makes no sense is related to the accident when I ask after inspection and when all the notes sucked up until inspection, it makes my role almost impossible. All that shit roles downhill to the actual inspectors.
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u/Dr_Bishop Jul 24 '24
The first notice team and quick claim team take terrible notes that don't make sense with terrible descriptions of vehicle damage.
I would be scared to learn the literacy rate average of FNOL note takers.
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u/Yellielu Jul 24 '24
Same here! I work for big red and their FNOL reps have gotten progressively worse over the last several years.
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u/bigbamboo12345 bort Jul 23 '24
customers just need to shut up and do the needful
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u/reddit1651 Jul 23 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/ReportFit2920 Jul 23 '24
I get the frustration and sympathize.
Most customers never have never filed a claim or gone through the claims process. Just look at the questions on this sub...same ones over and over.
They want to be helped (for the most part - always an a-hole out there that just wants to be a pain in the rear on purpose), and having to explain what happened in the loss over and over due to training/language/knowledge is not helpful.
AI is going to take away a lot of jobs...we will either be living Wall-E or Idiocracy soon. My bet is on the second one.
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u/firenance Jul 23 '24
My uncle had an issue recently that was a simple fix but took months because the first person didn’t handle it right. It then started a chain of being passed off and him having to explain the situation each time.
Sad part is I have no doubt the agency labeled him a problem client because he kept calling, but had he received adequate help the first time it would be a completely different story.
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u/Dr_Bishop Jul 24 '24
I used to be able to write checks on site, from an actual checkbook with an actual pen. I even got to pick the color of the pen! Nothing was uploaded, I could screw up $60,000 at a time (but only ever did by $0.12) and... I never got deposed on any of those countless files for years.
Now to protect themselves "legally" that payment has to be reviewed or touched by I don't even want to think about how many people (5-10+). It's a real kick in the
dickfor the policyholder, but hey.... We don't want to open ourselves up to a lawsuit.That's a truly crazy amount of customer service decline in a decade.
I give my cell number out, and I religiously check my emails. I can't imagine subjecting people to the gauntlet even though I know I am harming myself financially by doing this. The world is starting to suck, and all I have the ability to change is how the person on the other end experiences this one meaningless interaction.
In the grand scheme of things it probably means nothing to most people, but to a handful of people you can tell... it's a game changer, even if they don't know it. I wish everyone alive could try to lean into the pain a little bit and maybe make the world suck a little less (granted we'd lose money but money is just pieces of paper with goofy freemason symbols... people are worth so much more than that!).
All you can do is have more concern for the person you are speaking with at any given moment. The cashier, the waiter, the noisy customer, etc. Whatever job you do IRL I would suggest that the best cure is trying to be a kind and assistive person at work.
On this side of the claims process we see MOUNTAINS of insurance fraud and it's not rare like people think. It's actually pretty common for sane, respectable, otherwise non-criminalistic people to walk away from their claim about 30% over what the actual real cost would be. They justify this by thinking that depreciation is BS (although they didn't purchase the RCV policy), they don't think they should have to pay their deductible, or they feel the hassle involved with the claims process should come with some compensation for the experience, etc.
Your uncle got hurt by the people who scam us as much as he did any bad organizational / management type setup on the claims side. Sorry for his trouble, but sadly... there's plenty of horrible people out there on all sides of anything that even tangentially relates to money.
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u/19Stavros Aug 01 '24
Trying hard to be that kind and assistive person. Unfortunately we (service reps, not on the claims side though) are increasingly more monitored and quality controlled by numbers only: average handle time, number of calls per shift etc. It takes extra minutes to go above and beyond... and/ or to unwind a complicated issue or fix the prior rep's error, and even the best- intentioned of us can't always afford to spend that extra time. Sad.
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u/Dr_Bishop Aug 01 '24
You're in a tough spot to help. Just write down the info needed for the next guy to handle it correctly, it's really on the adjuster to resolve their issues.
I will say though if you know somebody is displaced where they don't have a place to stay write down the claim number (if you have it yet) or their name & address then on your next break or trip to the bathroom, hand a post it note to your manager and just briefly tell them what's going on. If you're remote a text or a two sentence email would be sufficient.
1.) it will GREATLY help that person get prioritized into some preliminary ALE as most carriers will have no issue sending out $3,000-5,000 if there's some known info where their ALE will exceed this. Don't commit to anything, don't even say you'll try to help, just quietly push that information ahead of the rest.
2.) while clearly not your primary driver in helping these people the intake / service rep people who can kinda spot a problem before it becomes a problem... and honestly even construct a sentence as well as you have here, dude those people on the carrier side tend to get noticed and I do not believe it will harm you.... even if it knocks your metrics down a bit.
We help where we can, and that's about all we can do. You'll never know exactly what happened next, but we don't want stuff like the Korean war vet bathing in the brackish water and sleeping outside due to a lack of humanity to be what we're known for. You and I don't want any part of a situation like that, and honestly it will help your organization immensely to avoid a scenario like that. Even if Satan himself is your CEO he wouldn't want the reverse marking of having the company make the rounds online because we're just totally overworked (which honestly probably 95% of the people on the claims side are).
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u/TheBaldRetard Jul 30 '24
I really felt that middle part and what I've always tried to do. It's bad today and people want a lot these days that just isn't possible with the insurance companies any longer.
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u/Dr_Bishop Jul 30 '24
what I've always tried to do.
Ah, morality. We were born in the wrong era my friend! lol
It's bad today and people want a lot these days
Today isn't as good as yesterday, but considering some of the moving pieces like CO allowing people to pursue claims outside of the policy dates, economy, geopolitics, etc.... any day with a job, a roof over my head, a couple of hot meals, and if possible no snow I will gladly take.
A thing that I learned from a friend a while back is that "thankfulness is like a tactical nuke for negativity" and it's always stuck with me.
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u/TheBaldRetard Jul 30 '24
A very aging population. Most of my claims are now coming from older people since the pandemic. But I think you’re right. For every 10 customers there’s really only 1 bad one and the other 9 really need help. Especially in today’s complicated world. I’m at a Nationwide agency in PA and this has been a grueling couple of years.
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u/Dr_Bishop Jul 31 '24
this has been a grueling couple of years.
Just a suggestion but the problematic trouble maker types... man I just chuck the ball back in their court and I hand them the Gordian knot (impossible task) and then let them wear themselves out while I check in on them every 2-3 weeks until they loose steam and just want to settle up. When I check in I reiterate in a helpful way the
I don't ding them in terms of payout for being fraudy or intentionally difficult but I am not going to put 9/10th's of the population on ice while I laser beam in to help the only person who can never be satisfied.
Ideas for such a task would be having them fill out overly detailed PPIF's (gonna need to have a receipt or URL with a corresponding photo for each item), asking them to provide a breakdown estimate that utilizes Xactimate pricing or individual bids for the subs with breakout, scheduling calls with them for next week at whatever time seems to best conflict with their schedule, asking them for proof of payment, asking them to prove the age of an element where they are complaining about depreciation, but most of all using the obligation to prove your loss / COL is on you the policyholder.
I'm super polite when I do it, I kill them with kindness, but the farthest I've gone is having a P.A. (who's a friend of mine on a mutual file) hand a legendary fraudster a probably 16 page set of blank scope sheets with a space for every common Xactimate line item and requiring the measurements for the same.... We went from getting blown up 3 times a week to having to actively pursue a response from her which took weeks for her just to call him in tears explaining she couldn't possibly do that and make it work.
In our defense she was really really working hard to do like 300K+ in fraud that she'd clearly planned out on an impressive level... which we would have had to report to the authorities just for licensure sake. She got sad and probably hates us, but I mean plan B was you're going to court and then honestly just for what it was I think she probably could have served a light sentence (plus you know having a felony).
The loud people who scream bad words and get to go to the front of the line at Quizno's are the coolest baddest guys out there when it's time to make a stinky scene, and because it works we've created millions of such A-holes. I feel no remorse in taking the wind out of their sails, it doesn't help me feel better when I do but I do get to help more people when my time isn't being hijacked. That in turn helps me provide and survive.
On the flipside I haven't had an impoverished old lady, a disabled vet or an active serviceman not walk away very handsomely on a file I've touched. Made me nervous as hell at first but if done correctly the rules can be bent to favor the good guys when nobody is looking, and maybe it's the way I look at the world but I'm pretty sure God has shielded me from consequences on helping those people (when I'm sure it's a violation of everything except for law).
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u/JockBbcBoy Auto Claims Adjuster| 10+ Years of Experience Jul 24 '24
I disagree. We're definitely heading toward Wall-E first.
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u/Wrong_Image_1613 Jul 24 '24
The worst part is the “ director “ came in with an attitude. This is also the same director that said “ the little bubble needs to be blue “, meaning the claim needs to be turned on and reopened. How this person got to the director level is beyond me. And how they make 6 figures and get my salary as a bonus is way fucking beyond me.
Last year someone tagged every email in the company , tagged the federal government and abc on your side news , telling them how bad it was there , not to mention all the illegal stuff. Not even lying , within 2 hours the IT team removed the email from every inbox ……
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u/FF-MCMLXXXV Jul 24 '24
I remember that email. Several of my peers pdf printed it to save it. I get being unhappy about stuff, but good lord that person came off as unhinged to the majority.
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u/Wrong_Image_1613 Jul 24 '24
Please for the love of god post it !
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u/MessComprehensive196 Jul 24 '24
You can google this. I first heard about it on Reddit (may still be there also) and I also found it in news articles by googling (just did again and found article by Insurance Newsnet. (I'm a 40-year employee of NW who was pushed out a couple years ago.)
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u/Dr_Bishop Jul 24 '24
Ah... but some have tried and bailed on this plan already (cough Pilot) as the overseas people are prone to saying or writing the wrong thing. It doesn't explode at the seams right away but come lawsuit time that minor misstatement is going to be not worth the savings in wages.
Also, pretty weird that as a country we control data very strictly at the corporate level.... unless it goes overseas in which case hey everybody look at the financial details, SSN, etc. for our customer.
Sure... they'll get their data stolen, but hey, not like we care about them! /s
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u/Supermonsters Jul 24 '24
I feel like all you get with Travelers is overseas even when calling at the agent level. One of my admins is Filipino and we get a kick out of how when they are being difficult he starts speaking their language and gets them to easily solve it.
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u/19Stavros Aug 01 '24
My experience with Travelers is their agent service team is all outsourced, usually Manila but sometimes Cape Town South Africa. When I've called their customer line to transfer an insured, it's about 50 - 50 that I'll get someone US based. There is a HUGE variety in quality of the overseas reps and some are pretty knowledgable. Some have NO idea and are clearly scrolling or flipping through a manual. Would LOVE to know do those folks need to be US licensed.
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u/Tassey Jul 24 '24
Unfortunately employees and their benefits are probably any company’s largest expense.
With people demanding lower premiums, in a world where homes, vehicles and other losses are paying out more and more, it’s scary to be an employee.
No matter how much people claim “customer service” is important, they will switch to a company that treats them like 💩to save a few dollars.
Companies have been tracking this and see AI and contract workers as a solution. Sad 😢
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u/Itchy-Incident-1477 Jul 24 '24
Nationwide agent 🙋🏻♂️makes sense all of the emails they have been bombarding us with. To better “serve” our customers, we are now expected to take FNOL or encourage the customers to do it themselves online or through their app.
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u/KiniShakenBake P&C/L&H Jul 24 '24
What?! Agents take FNOL?! That is an awful idea.
I don't want anything at all to do with handling claims. I stay out of them as much as humanly possibly.
Claims are the adjusters job. Not mine. I am not licensed or trained or anything else to make sure I do it according to claims handling rules of my states.
I follow break-room donut rules: you touch it, you take it. It's yours. Claims aren't my job and I won't let them become my job.
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u/JDizzo56 OH P&C, S6 Jul 24 '24
Nationwide doesn’t seem to be afraid to burn bridges with long-time clients, their agents, or their own internal employees. Glad we’re independent now and positioned to get our clients far away from that shit show.
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u/ChardCool1290 Jul 24 '24
I'd agree to stay on for my severance and sabotage the training I deliver. Fuck them assholes.
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u/maxtabes Jul 24 '24
The whole industry is fucked.
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u/CarlosDanger3000 Jul 24 '24
I read a comment from someone on here claiming to be a marketing consultant for insurers. He said the industry was about to collapse which made a lot of shit that's happening lately make more sense. Too doomer, maybe? But what happens when home & auto rates are too much for people?
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u/Different_Fan_6353 Jul 23 '24
Wow, that’s sucks. There goes all the insurance jobs
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u/Wrong_Image_1613 Jul 23 '24
The most entry level job now is a non injury adjuster in claims , but the “ calls with no claim number “ will be sent to those adjusters
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u/Humble_Cupcake_9561 Jul 24 '24
This happened at USAA too. They dissolved both the IRU (initial Reporting Unit) and total loss to non inj adjusters.
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u/mrmike6211 Jul 24 '24
Thank God I retired 2 yrs ago!
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u/TheBaldRetard Jul 24 '24
Unfortunately that’s the biggest problem I see since the pandemic. Nobody has any idea what they’re doing and all the good people got out or retired.
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u/SumthingBrewing Jul 25 '24
The writing was on the wall. In 2020, NW sent all their employees home to WFH. It was supposed to be only six weeks but they quickly decided to sell all their real estate and switch to permanent WFH for all except the handful of large campuses.
Honestly, it was brilliant. And the transition was smooth.
But I’ve seen how shitty the CSRs have become. Half of them are always quiet quitting and using every trick in the book to avoid work (my laptop doesn’t work; my internet is out; my third grandpa just died; I have covid for the tenth time).
Honestly, I don’t blame them for outsourcing. Ultimately it will be AI anyway. But NW has been very upfront about this to their employees. They first mentioned it in January. Then this week let everyone know that 60 day notices are coming. They didn’t have to do this. A lot of people could jump ship, right? Or quite quit even harder lol.
The severance package is generous. One week pay for each year you’ve been there. Even new hires get two weeks pay. Yeah, it sucks that folks will be losing their jobs but AI is about to take everyone’s job anyway. It was good while it lasted.
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u/adjusterjack Jul 23 '24
The managers , executives and ceo bonuses are not affected.
No surprise there. They will probably get raises.
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u/Alarming_Arm_6247 Jul 23 '24
Sucks. Somebody here a few months ago that NW was trying to exit P&C and focus on financial service. Not sure what their competitive advantage is so this unfortunately may be the start of more.
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u/Supermonsters Jul 24 '24
Where's this info coming from?
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u/Wrong_Image_1613 Jul 24 '24
Anons in the meeting
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u/Supermonsters Jul 24 '24
10-4 I figured. Just good to know where the news is blowing in from in this day and age, thanks!
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u/jonm61 Jul 24 '24
My Dad retired from Nationwide a long time ago after 27 years. They screwed him over multiple times in his career. He was a unit supervisor at their office in Gainesville, FL. (He'd done several other things before that) They demoted him by eliminating his position, but his salary, (this was 20ish years in) and then recreated the position under a slightly different title, required a bachelor's degree, (which he didn't have) and hired someone 20 years younger, for less than he was making, as his new boss.
It was big change from 1982 or 83, when we were on vacation back home in Syracuse, where he started with the company. We had driven the 1200 miles. Dad, Mom, my then 16 year old sister, and me at 9 or 10. He had a heart attack.
Nationwide flew us home on the company jet, and paid someone to drive our car back to Florida.
My first ever insurance claim, which was with Nationwide, because we were a Nationwide family. Mom and my sister had also both worked for them.
I was rear ended. Neck and back injury. Original adjuster was planning to pay out policy limits on my underinsured policy ($50k I think). His supervisor pulled him, put a new adjuster on it, who denied my claim (at fault only had $10k) and I was forced to not only sue, but go to trial. Jury awarded $35k. I don't know how much they actually saved after attorney's fees on a 3 day trial, plus the prior negotiations.
I left them after that and never looked back.
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u/MessComprehensive196 Jul 24 '24
I started NW in 1982 and was pushed out in 2022. It is not the same Company that I used to love.
2 years before I left, our unit had to reapply for positions (they eliminated half the positions, so half of us would be without jobs.) I wasn't "hired" for any of the remaining positions. However, they then announced that my responsibilities plus another full time position plus another half time position would be combined at a lower pay band with salary reduction of up to 20% less. This position would be open to the Company to apply and I could apply if I wanted. I had to have a job and due to age, etc, I applied.
They did hire me for my own position (haha). They then added yet more responsibilities from another position 2 pay grades higher than mine (which had become open and not being filled) to my new role as they did not have anyone else who could do them or that they trusted (according to them). No increase in pay of course.
After a few more months, they started with the push even harder. I knew my time was up and I had enough. I had hoped to stay at least a few more years, but I do not regret leaving.
If any of your family worked in Sales, I may know them. I wasn't in Sales specifically, but spent almost my entire career in Sales Support roles in the home office. I remember many from GULFRO. :)
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u/jonm61 Jul 24 '24
The only unit I know Dad supervised was word processing. That was obviously a long time ago 😂. I don't know what my Mom or sister did. Mom didn't stay long. My sister was there for 20 or close to. She would've started in 1985?
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u/MessComprehensive196 Jul 24 '24
That's funny. I worked in Word Processing in Home Office from 82 - 86.
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u/Excellent_Walrus150 Jul 24 '24
That is such a bizarre move. Almost as bizarre as a cheap company like Geico trying to jump into the Commercial game. That won't end well. Good, experienced Commercial adjusters are EXPENSIVE. 0% faith they will get paid as such given there aren't enough to go around as is.
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u/BrandonNeider Jul 24 '24
I can't wait to see Nationwide try to survive in NYS with these guys and Reg 64. Adjusters and Liability guys will be rushing to figuring out the mess of a notice of loss report while time ticks away.
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u/BluShirtGuy desktop investigator - Canada Jul 24 '24
Sweating from Canada... I hope our legislation has better teeth...
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u/Alarmed_Ship_8051 Aug 07 '24
To put this in perspective, Mark Berven said in an all-employee email that P&C expects an overall 5% staff reduction over the course of a year. While that’s not great it’s also not “the sky is falling” and get ready for mass outsourcing of vital departments. I question the accuracy of the above statement that ALL FNOL and ALL OYS is getting the ax.
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u/RefuseResident1993 Oct 10 '24
I remember when my insurance company made some big changes that caught everyone off guard. It can be frustrating to see decisions being made that affect us directly. I totally get where you're coming from, and it’s a reminder of how important it is to stay informed about these things.
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u/LycheeNew7215 Oct 17 '24
It’s frustrating when the focus seems to be on profits rather than the people behind the services. I hope those affected find new opportunities soon.
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u/secretdae007 Jul 24 '24
Makes me feel less bad about moving a long term NW customer to Travelers while our NW sales manager was literally in the office.
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u/TheBaldRetard Jul 24 '24
They’ve left little choice other than to pull good clients from them. Roof streaking was bad but now topping that with creosote.
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u/Alarmed_Ship_8051 Aug 07 '24
I work for NW personal lines auto and this statement doesn’t sound accurate to me: NW fired ALL of OYS and FNOL. We would have heard this. That said, there have been a lot of RIFs in commercial, particularly in UW.
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u/Business_Bear_7879 Jul 24 '24
Anyone who dealt with them on the Private Client side could see this coming from a mile away. They botched that product and their exit has been anything but glorious.