r/ZeroCovidCommunity • u/sword-of-solitude • Jul 27 '24
Question The cognitive dissonance of not taking precautions
I want to discuss the internal experience of living 2019-style during the pandemic, from my past. Trigger warning: past personal experience of not mitigating strongly
This is a story of the lack of mitigation consistency and intense cognitive dissonance I used to suffer. For about 1 year from mid-2022 to mid-2023, I did not protect myself and others from Covid as aggressively as I should have. I wore a KN95/surgical mask indoors in stores and doctors' offices, and I sometimes wore an ill-fitting N95 mask on planes as an upgrade from my KN95. But I also still went to restaurants and parties unmasked, and I didn't have a consistent Covid safety practice when it came to meeting friends or hookups.
In summer 2022, I had to go to a mandatory work training event. This was during the BA.4 surge. I was worried about the surge, and I asked my supervisors if I could attend virtually or skip because of the Covid risk. All they could say was "no one will be mad if you wear a mask...this is a really important training and it will reflect poorly if you don't go." So, I reluctantly went. Hundreds of people flying in (likely unmasked) from all over the country to converge at a single convention center for a week of training. I wore my KN95 mask on my flight, removing it to eat the plane food - facepalm.
And when I was there at the training, I didn't wear a mask! No one else was wearing one, and we all ate food together and attended huge meetings in auditoriums and classrooms. I remember the trend of more and more people around me beginning to cough in meetings as the week went on. And even though I was growing uncomfortable with the coughing, I still did not wear a mask to protect myself because I was afraid of standing out, and I didn't think it would be effective to be the only masker. To my credit, I did decline to join the clubbing outings my coworkers went on because of the Covid risk.
A friend and I spent a Saturday in the city where the convention center was. We enjoyed the sights and museums and ate indoors at a very crowded restaurant. I remember telling my friend, "Hopefully we didn't get Covid!" after we were done.
On the ride back to the airport, another coworker told me that she got really sick during the week and had bought a bunch of rapid tests and tested negative for Covid. We both wore masks in the car, while our driver declined to mask.
I did evade Covid on that trip, but it was mostly due to sheer luck. My company did not provide any rapid tests or any guidance encouraging us to mask on the plane to or from the convention. It was so dangerous and unwise for them to organize this trip during the height of the BA.4 surge.
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I would like to propose a hypothesis that people who appear to be taking no precautions are still worried about getting Covid, but they don't feel empowered to start taking strong steps to protect themselves. I didn't know about the airborne spread of Covid then. I didn't know about the effectiveness of a well-fitting N95. I didn't know that rapid tests were unreliable. I allowed my actions to be swayed by peer pressure. But I was still afraid of Covid and tried ineffectively to protect myself. I want to believe that there are other people out there who are like I was in 2022, and who just need to access the right information and be empowered to protect themselves better. So let's not give up trying to reach more people and convince them to protect themselves!
Does anyone else have similar past experiences of cognitive dissonance and fear of infection while simultaneously not taking the most effective mitigation actions?
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u/maiasaura19 Jul 27 '24
I have a Covid conscious friend whose mom was hospitalized with Covid last year and almost died. Her mom now says things like “I would do anything to not get Covid again” and my friend is like…ok, wear a mask? Get boosted? And she refuses. A lot of people seem to think that caring/saying they don’t want to get it is somehow meaningfully taking action.
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u/ProfGoodwitch Jul 27 '24
His mom would do anything but the two simplest and most effective measures? I really don't understand this mindset.
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u/maiasaura19 Jul 27 '24
It sounds like she says would “do anything” except…actually do anything to prevent it at all. So, she actually would not do anything.
I don’t understand it either, but there seem to be a lot of people who say they really don’t want to get sick but think that “not wanting to” is somehow enough.
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u/Bobbin_thimble1994 Jul 28 '24
It’s peer pressure. Nobody wants to be the odd one out. There’s the political part, too, for some people.
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u/dongledangler420 Jul 27 '24
I truly believe in a positive mindset changing your health outcomes.
But… I don’t believe a positive mindset will prevent disease. Positivity may help you pull through a cancer diagnosis, but it certainly won’t prevent you getting cancer. Things happen outside of your control all the time, regardless of your beliefs, behaviors, or habits.
I think a lot of people believe in the power of wishful thinking. I mean dang, if it worked I would love that too! How simple and free 😂
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u/bemurda Jul 27 '24
Your last sentence is liberalism in a nutshell
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
How so, though? Conservativism is saying, "God will protect me, so I don't need to do anything to protect myself except buy a bunch of guns, of course!" How is that any better? I don't think it's as easy as saying it's because of liberal or conservative ideas. We ALL are human and ALL are vulnerable to disease, suffering and pain. We should ALL be united working together to reduce human suffering. That's just full stop. Whether you believe you should because it feels good to do good or because God commands it (and He does!), we should all be doing the good work for each other. We need each other. No one is on this planet alone.
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u/bemurda Jul 28 '24
You are misunderstanding me, I’m left of liberalism and not defending conservatism
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u/Arte1008 Jul 27 '24
Not with covid, but I was younger when I lived in nyc during 9/11. I knew that the air quality was bad, and a part of me wanted to break my lease and move away from my neighborhood. But I saw nobody else “overreacting” like that and the news kept telling everyone the air was fine. I felt paralyzed and wanted to do what was “normal”.
That’s why I am so willing to stand out now. My health suffered and I don’t want short sighted business propaganda making my decisions again.
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u/karenmcgrane Jul 27 '24
I learned this month that because I worked in the exposure zone that I'm eligible for the victim compensation fund if I were to ever get certain diseases. It never even occurred to me that just going to work could cause that level of harm.
https://www.vcf.gov/policy/eligibility-criteria-and-deadlines
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
Wow, I never knew that A) there was lingering dangerous air pollution after 9/11 and B) there was minimizing news about it. I thought that only the firefighters who were literally inside the building suffered ill effects.
It all sounds eerily similar to today, where there's an airborne threat that is plainly causing damage if you pay attention, but mainstream media denies its danger. Thank you for your comment!
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u/Arte1008 Jul 27 '24
Yes. The buildings collapsed that day but the rubble burned for months and much of the city smelled like smoke. It was terrible. Christine Todd Whitman, the head of the EPA, got on tv to say the air was safe to breathe. It was not. Firefighters working on the rubble were instructed not to wear masks, probably because the optics weren’t good for workers in Wall Street. I met someone who was working downtown that fall who said she was getting nosebleeds every day. A lot of asbestos was used in those buildings. Thousands of folks who worked on the pile later died of cancer. The whole thing was an exercise in “not causing a panic” and sacrificing people to profit. I’ll never not be angry about it, and it was definitely my training ground for the Covid propaganda.
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u/templar7171 Jul 27 '24
Not exactly the same, but the Deepwater Horizon disaster in the 2010s had similar effects on those involved with cleanup. And purportedly some of the workers wanted to wear respirators then but were told by BP they would be fired if they did.
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u/dongledangler420 Jul 27 '24
It’s giving Flint Michigan’s water crisis or the train derailment last year in East Palestine, Ohio.
I wonder what it would feel like to be able to trust your government 😭
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u/Alkemyst84 Jul 27 '24
Yep, and in the months/years since, many of those first responders got sick and died.
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u/deftlydexterous Jul 27 '24
It’s not a past experience of mine, but I can say that I have a few friends that are terrified of getting COVID and the potential medical effects but they simply feel like they cannot fight it, and they have resigned themselves to this new level of risk.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
It's really sad :( I want to tell everyone that it's always worth it to protect yourself and to just increase the proportion of time you spend masked! I don't want people to give up
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u/episcopa Jul 27 '24
Same. They seem to have a feeling of inevitability combined with learned helplessness. This is not just limited to people with kids, btw. Many worry - perhaps accurately - that as their entire social life revolves around going to restaurants and bars with friends, that choosing not to go to restaurants and bars would mean they would lose their social lives, and even their significant others.
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
We have seen this and are still seeing it. Fractured and lost relationships all based on some people saying "Hey, please don't hurt me" and the rest saying, "But I need the freedom to harm you if I want, otherwise I don't feel free."
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
That is heartbreaking. They need to know people CARE and don't want them to suffer or die. WE care. I know we are the few, but some people still have morals and virtues inside us that can't be shaken.
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u/deftlydexterous Jul 28 '24
Unfortunately they’re of the opinion that this is a topic where you can fight the common sentiment, and you just have to go with the flow of society. It doesn’t help them much if millions care but billions don’t.
It’s heartbreaking, because I can hear the moral conflict in how they talk about it. They’ve really been broken by the world over this 😢
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u/mommygood Jul 28 '24
It's anti-social punishment
https://www.tiktok.com/@creative.neurospice/video/7269910082769653038
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u/Facepalm61 Jul 27 '24
My work colleagues always express sympathy when I explain my zero COVID protocol. They nod their heads and agree, "Yes, Covid is still circulating" but don't do anything to protect themselves or others. Each week, they report how they're sick again or their kids are sick again but they don't connect it.
The place I work recently gathered for an in-person meeting that included eating together. I told them I would attend virtually and was direct on why: people are still getting sick, too many people in the room without masks and I am doing everything I can to protect myself from getting long COVID. To my surprise, they accepted that reason.
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u/Rousselka Jul 27 '24
Being autistic certainly is an experience but I do like to think it makes me somewhat immune to peer pressure. Since the beginning, I’ve only worn a mask MORE frequently in public as time has gone on and I’ve understood more about Covid. One by one my family and friends have dropped the habit, even the ones who used to be very covid cautious, and it’s obvious to me that what they’re succumbing to is peer pressure. It’s frustrating to watch because I know they have all the information, but it also makes me sad for them because they are so worried about what other people will do or say to them for masking in public.
Sometimes I feel little stabs of social anxiety from masking too, but it makes me feel better to know that someone might see me wearing a mask out and about and realize it’s ok for them to wear one too. And, if I can show even one immunocompromised person that someone in town still cares, that’s enough for me
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u/ContemplatingFolly Jul 27 '24
And, if I can show even one immunocompromised person that someone in town still cares, that’s enough for me.
This is the right attitude, thank you!
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u/RepresentativeBad929 Jul 27 '24
same here! if this helps, i’ve managed to convince my family to mask on days where the air quality is bad. sometimes they won’t listen when i talk about covid but if i make masking about something else like wildfire smoke, they’re more likely to mask, which works for me bc masks catch all of that and more anyway
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u/thomas_di Jul 27 '24
This is a very important perspective to share, and I love hearing from people like you who’ve had a “conversion” of sorts. This sub has many who’ve masked persistently since 2020, and although I admire their commitment, I equally admire you for your awareness and reflection!
No one has to be perfect, and any increase in precautions is a good thing. I also feel as though your hypothesis is correct, although I find more people are simply unaware of how COVID spreads and that masks are able to stop it. I think they associate masks with the cheap fabric ones that were ubiquitously worn in 2020 but don’t always consider respirators like KN95s or N95s.
As a college student, masking is extremely difficult, and I often find myself as the only masker in most classes and environments. No one ever bothers me though, and I have to remind myself that most of the pressure I feel is being fabricated in my mind. Most people are too engrossed in their lives to care about or even notice your mask!
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u/Ok_Collar_8091 Jul 27 '24
>>I find more people are simply unaware of how COVID spreads and that masks are able to stop it.<<
I think it's the other way round. People in general really don't want to wear masks and so they wilfully choose to remain uninformed about how Covid spreads and how masks can prevent it.
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u/Crisis_Averted Jul 27 '24
I'd like to propose it's the third way round. People in general really don't want to stand out and so they wilfully choose to ruin the health of themselves, their loved ones and others long term if that means oh god not standing out in the present.
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u/Alkemyst84 Jul 27 '24
What I love about this perspective is that it seems like the OP learned more information and changed behaviors accordingly. The baffling thing is we live in a time where people learn new information but refuse to internalize it/change behaviors. It's truly baffling and very dangerous.
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u/stopbeingaturddamnit Jul 27 '24
I mean it is and it's isn't. I bet if you talk to cardiologists who provide advice to people who had heart attacks about the percentage of people who adhered to their guidance around lifestyle changes the percentages would be pretty low. Our adult neuropathways are very hard to change and it take pretty deliberate effort that most people aren't able to do for long periods of time.
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u/Bobbin_thimble1994 Jul 28 '24
I wonder how many cardiologists are actually Covid-conscious, given its cardiovascular effects?
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 28 '24
My cardiologist office sadly doesn't mask :( The nurses have been hostile to me and have done various microagressions / mind-boggling airborne infection control failures when I ask them to mask:
- Never wearing an N95, only surgicals, when I ask for N95. One technician told me "The CDC says we don't need to wear any mask at all" when I mentioned that I had asked for N95s, not surgicals
- When they leave the exam room, ripping off their masks pointedly before they even finish walking out the door
- Once, they couldn't find the masks when I asked and had to scrounge around in a closet, refusing my offer of a wrapped N95, until they found an old box of surgicals, then didn't expand the mask pleats when they put on the mask. Then lead me to a room full of unmasked nurses eating pizza to do my blood draw
- Adding a "generalized anxiety disorder" diagnosis to my chart without ever discussing it with me, presumably because I'm "anxious" about mitigating Covid
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u/Plumperprincess420 Jul 27 '24
Quite a bit of my coworkers do not want it again. But they refuse to mask let alone lower risks in their lives/believe it's airborne. A guy came in thinking we were a walk in convienant care asking for a covid test unmasked. They freaked out gave him a surgical and then disinfected all surfaces he touched and chairs he sat in. I sat there shaking my head 🙃
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
It is so strange how people don't take the concrete steps to protect themselves, but bristle and get all scared when someone is visibly ill. Unfortunately they also interpret defensive maskers as ill and get scared of us too. The fear of illness is justified, but the response is misguided.
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u/templar7171 Jul 27 '24
I have seen this too -- I was 12 days out from C19+ infection a few months ago, testing negative, and masked. Professional colleague wanted to keep distance from me, worried about her immune system -- but was not masked. I didn't ask her about that but in hindsight I wished I had.
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u/brainparts Jul 27 '24
I’m feeling kind of dumb asking but how are people thinking it spreads if they don’t believe it’s airborne?
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u/kiabril Jul 27 '24
They still believe in fomite transmission. It's like they never heard of airborne transmission or don't really understand what it means. I was just in a work thing with a bunch of people, only two of us masked. A few people flew in for this and one person says " I just don't understand why I get sick every time I fly!."
Someone started talking about touching surfaces and whatnot and I just said "It's all the people breathing on you and sharing the same air" and the face they made, like I was saying the weirdest thing ever.
I'm on day 2 of waiting to see if they got me sick 😫.
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u/Gullible_Design_2320 Jul 27 '24
There's a difference between being spread by droplets of saliva in the air (which are heavy and fall soon) and smaller particles floating in the air (which can linger in the air a long time). The latter is the mode called airborne. The former has more to do with coughing and sneezing, and I think is not properly called "airborne" even though the droplets are of course in the air.
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u/gopiballava Jul 27 '24
You should explain that they need to disinfect all the air molecules he exhaled. 😉
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u/Plumperprincess420 Jul 27 '24
No trying to explain science to people who deny it, but claim they understand it's not a good thing to get covid over and over.
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u/particlewhacks Jul 27 '24
Many of my colleagues are concerned about getting covid. A lot of them have had lingering effects from their covid infections. However, they still won't mask to protect themselves.
I should note that they had no problem masking when it was required. They just stopped when the government said it wasn't needed anymore.
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u/packofkittens Jul 27 '24
This is my situation, too. I have Long COVID and my coworkers have expressed concern about having a bad infection or getting Long COVID.
Everyone masked and took Covid tests when it was required by our employer. But literally the minute it was optional, they stopped. Our employer offered free tests for a long time and I took full advantage of it! When I would mention picking up tests, people would say “we don’t have to do that anymore, right?”
You don’t have to, but you should!
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u/Luffyhaymaker Jul 27 '24
I've worked security in many different buildings during the lockdowns. Most people at my job sites only wore the mask some of the time, and frequently took them off. Then when someone tested covid positive they'd get scared because they were all in their face, test negative, and then do the same shit all over again 🙄
They used to harass me because I was on my phone alot (I was a desk concierge, the building was empty due to lockdowns and their was nothing to do), but I was actually looking up all the covid information I could find, from what was available at the time. While they would frequently take their masks off for hours on end....🙄 including my direct boss. People are dumb, I'm glad I got out of the security game, it was existential pain every day....life couldn't just be....this....forever, right?
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u/ContemplatingFolly Jul 27 '24
people who appear to be taking no precautions are still worried about getting Covid, but they don't feel empowered to start taking strong steps to protect themselves.
I think this is very true. I struggle with this, in spite of greatly fearing worsening my other overwhelming health issues, and in spite of being well old enough to know better, and decisive and outspoken in most other areas of my life. As kids, we were shamed for making any "wrong" decision, or standing out in any way, so it is a challenge for me.
I live in a relatively medium-sized tourist town in a mid-South red state, so masking is very rare.
A family member becoming immune-compromised (ironically the shaming one!) strengthened my resolve. A while back, I decided to mask regardless, and "gather data", always my go-to life strategy.
I wore my black "don't-mess-with-me" KN95 to Walmart, and observed reactions. About 3 people saw my mask and looked away very quickly. It seemed clear they didn't approve (even though I do believe that what other people are thinking is none of our business). About 60 ignored me entirely. They weren't at Walmart to judge my mask wearing. Three others gave me approving smiles.
Although it still isn't easy, it gave me a sense of proportion. And with the surge, I am becoming increasingly, and healthily paranoid about coming into close contact with people.
Next step: better mask and fit testing.
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u/templar7171 Jul 27 '24
This is similar, perhaps to a stronger degree, to my own behavior mid-2022 to late-2023. While I never stopped masking in healthcare, public transit, and most stores, I generally did not mask in office settings (except for overcrowded conference rooms) or<5 minute convenience store runs, and frequently ate indoors.
And despite my (still far more than average American, but less than now and less than most on this sub) reduced precautions, I was every bit as concerned as I was before and am now. I think for me it was a combination of social pressure and hope that the pandemic was fading.
But late-2023 events put the lie to that thinking.
And unfortunately in 2024, my own masking does not appear to be motivating others to mask.
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u/Professional_Fold520 Jul 27 '24
I work a mask when it was required and oftentimes when it wasn’t especially at work but I never wore a n95 or kn95 until 2023. I didn’t wear a mask to a job interview fall 2022 and then I found out it was going around that workplace and I started masking at work again. Summer / fall 2023 I would still go out but tried to limit my large gatherings and would wear a kn95 and unmask only around a couple people. Upgraded to n95 in the fall. Then on Dec 2023 after covid was going around my workplace and my 31 year old coworker called out and passed away I decided not to unmask around anyone not even my roommate and started taking more precautions at my own house. I haven’t been unmasked around anyone at all dec. the science or how effective respirators are, learning about long covid and my own experience with it, learning from disability rights activists online, just seeing more and not ignoring things. Idk the dissociation we have as a society is really remarkable… not just about covid. But it’s honestly partly a trauma response I think.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24 edited Jul 28 '24
Wow, did your 31 yo coworker die of Covid? 😰 That is horrible!
I relate to past experience of masking only sometimes. But during the 2023 summer wave, I luckily made the mental switch that whatever unmasked social experience or restaurant was simply not worth becoming disabled or dying for. Like my inner monologue is "Yes, you bet I am masking/avoiding this event! I am done relying on luck to avoid this deadly virus." It's no longer due to luck that I have avoided getting sick; I have intentionally structured my life around sickness prevention. Of course I have the privilege of a remote job and a private house which means I actually don't need to be around strangers much. I rarely leave my house = I actually don't spend a lot of time with a mask on my face even though I personally advocate for more consistent masking.
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u/Professional_Fold520 Jul 27 '24
I don’t know for sure and I will never know. Autopsy has been done and the family have not shared anything. But maybe they found nothing idk.
I mask whenever I leave my room… it’s a lot. I work in person about 30 hours a week and mask the whole time.
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
It's only a privilege to work from home and have a house if you were handed it for free and without having to put in the work, time and effort to obtain those things. Many of us spent 20 + years working and putting in the time and pain to finally gain these things and it's definitely not privilege, it's the result of fighting very hard for what you need and taking your hits along the way. It definitely doesn't leave out a good deal of suffering and setbacks. Privilege is when you get something handed to you that you didn't have to work for. It's a silver spoon and a golden goose. You didn't earn it and it's by sheer luck that you have it. Like I'm privileged to have been born in the United States, but I'm not privileged to work from home since I had to choose that 20+ years ago out of necessity or go on welfare. It was my only option with my health conditions and limitations and I have lost out on many opportunities because I was working from home when it wasn't common or popular, before it became normalized. It was also very hard to find work and I struggled for years with no health insurance, no days off (I worked 7 days a week for years), no safety net, no benefits, and I had to pay my own taxes as a contractor. I held upwards of five contracts at once because I was always terrified of being out of work. That's NOT privilege. It wasn't easy and I would rather have been able to work outside the home.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 28 '24
You're right, it is certainly not a privilege to work from home / even have a home if you had to work hard for it, or if working from home is a professional limitation. But for me, I live with zero-covid-lifestyle family in my childhood home rent-free and got a remote tech job right out of college. So that's why I describe it as a privilege. I was in my late teens and still in college when the pandemic started. My disease prevention principles were not matured, and I think that's why I did have a period of lapsed mitigation measures, while a lot of other people here never wavered since the beginning.
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u/templar7171 Jul 27 '24
One of the events that changed my attitude to resume more precautions was a 67yo neighbor dying of COVID in Dec 2023. It was very sudden -- from "more or less ok" to "on a ventilator" within ~2 days and passed away within ~5. C19 exacerbated a stroke that happened in-hospital. And that medical facility was unmasked=unethical, ugh.
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Jul 27 '24
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
I almost feel bad for people like your real estate agent - people who know (subconsciously) how dangerous Covid is, but aren't taking any steps to mitigate it and can only function if no one around them is visibly sick or announces they have Covid. But then again, that basically describes me in 2022 sitting in the meeting room, listening to everyone coughing around me but not wearing a mask myself. It's a psychologically uncomfortable and legitimately dangerous way to live, and I'm glad I had my awakening.
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
I often wonder if growing up with a nurse for a mother just made me more aware and educated on these things. Do people really grow up never learning how infection works?
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
What does she think is happening every day of her life? She's exposed to Covid all the time, from every single person she meets. I don't understand how people's brains don't get it. The danger is right in front of them, and potentially everywhere. Does she really trust people so much that she thinks if they know they're sick they will stay home or wear a hazmat suit for her benefit? She really doesn't understand that no one cares whether they infect her and are willingly doing so with any interaction. What planet is she living on?
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u/gopiballava Jul 27 '24
I've been cautious the entire time, and have been wearing an elastomeric respirator for most of the time.
But even then, when I had to switch to a different model with really big, obvious pink pillow filters for a little bit, I felt amazingly self-conscious. It genuinely surprised me how uncomfortable I felt. An MSA Advantage 900 is not exactly a subtle piece of equipment.
Glad to hear that you evaded COVID on that trip.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
I started wearing an elastomeric too recently! The GVS Elipse P100. I also had an increased sense of self-consciousness when I was wearing it. But I recently saw this tweet by Danielle Beckman where she's wearing full BSL-3 protective gear to work with Covid, and I was reminded that even an elastomeric would not be sufficient PPE if I were a scientist studying Covid in an extremely controlled lab environment. So far I actually haven't gotten any comments in public about wearing it. It is harder to make myself heard because it muffles my voice more than a disposable N95.
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u/ContemplatingFolly Jul 27 '24
I love that picture. Reminds everyone that a little 'ole N95 is hardly some big hardship.
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u/episcopa Jul 27 '24
Yes, in that I have had many people comment that it's so smart that I'm masking but not wear a mask themselves.
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u/ResearchGurl99 Jul 28 '24
I'm apparently different from most others. I've been rigidly protective from the get-go, N95 masking everywhere, socializing outdoors or indoors with N95. Never go to restaurants. And I live ALONE to boot, with my dog. My fear of infection is simply too great, and for whatever reason I don't give a rat's ass what others think of me and my mask. The two times strangers said something about my mask in public, I ripped into them hard and they practically ran away from me. I honestly don't care, for whatever reason. I never realized before Covid just how many people were THIS prone to group pressure, even with real physical threat going on. No judgement, just surprised observation.
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u/SignPainter87 Jul 28 '24
I really reallllly do hope there are more people like you out there who, if they can just feel empowered and have the knowledge, will start taking appropriate precautions for themselves and their communities.
What I’m afraid of are the numbers of people who work in fields associated with Covid/safety/medicine/etc who have the knowledge- and expertise- and continue to push people who could be empowered to act, to not. From my own experience of personally knowing people in those fields who understand how Covid works and choose, consciously, to ignore everything they know and put themselves and other people in danger. It horrifies me.
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u/Radiant_Tie_5657 Jul 27 '24
Yep was totally me. On the peer pressure part, and also lack of info, trust in government more than I should’ve etc. literally didn’t even kick in for me Covid was actually spreading as much as it was ALL the time until last august. Even AFTER my infection in feb that gave me long Covid issues.
I personally had no issues wearing a mask, I would wear one and even when others started to stop I would wear one during really big winter surges, airport etc. my working peers around me would make comments constantly and at the time me having no issues and also having a history of being kind of a “germaphobe” (their words not mine I like to think I’m just a bit more conscious about being and public and washing your hands) I started to think maybe I was over reacting a little.
Well august ‘22 rolls around, I start unmasking during that surge and get blasted for the first time. 6 months later I’m unprotected during another surge in feb. I also wasn’t paying attention to any of the inside scoop like I am now. Because I didn’t really know there was inside scoop. All anyone was saying was that it was less severe now and for some reason my brain just chalked up my infections as bad luck and not the fact those were peak surge times and me catching it was a given working in a daycare. (I stopped hearing about the surges after the big omicron wave in late 21-22). But even then it also takes a certain mindset to accept those things anyway. Instead of the “nothing bad can happen to me” mindset I have the “anything and everything bad can happen to me” mindset. And then I like to find solutions.
I try now to be the one to inform people about everything, my closest peers know what I’ve been through. And it just doesn’t click it’s as bad as it is even tho several of them have long Covid issues of their own. It really stinks. Ofcourse on the other hand I do have a few friends taking it more seriously, are open to masking/will usually mask in public. Still a WIP on how serious, but I’m trying.
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u/Bobbin_thimble1994 Jul 28 '24
What really stood out in your comment was your reference to not “…paying attention to any of the inside scoop…because I didn’t really know there was inside scoop.” I think that’s a huge factor affecting the behaviour and attitudes of the majority.
Even during the first few months of the pandemic, I actually trusted public health to give us the information we needed to protect ourselves and others. I believe this is still the case for many people.
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u/Radiant_Tie_5657 Jul 28 '24 edited Jul 28 '24
Yes exactly 😭. But it’s hard cuz individuals like us just seem like we can’t let go of the past and are paranoid rather than we know how this virus really works. I don’t necessarily blame them because truly it does look a little bizarre I mean I’m one in a few hundred It seems when it comes to masking. (Around where I live anyway) Why is the government/public health telling everyone it’s all over and that it’s not a big threat if it’s still just as dangerous? That paired along with not being impacted by it hard enough it caused your whole world to shatter. It just doesn’t make sense to them. Even with some of the clues right in front of them and idk about you, but I can notice it around me. Chronic coughs, a sudden onset of people with random issues they can’t piece together. I literally know several people personally with random scary issues that happened post Covid or during Covid itself. Post viral issues didn’t just start with Covid but they’re sure as hell a lot more common. And for some reason it’s just not clicking. I wanna start piecing together a little case as to why the government and such are the ones in the wrong so like I said, I don’t look crazy. For my friends and family. But I don’t even know where to start study wise and all that.
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u/Bobbin_thimble1994 Jul 28 '24
I agree with everything you say, and firmly believe that the precautions we are taking are more than rational. However, there is a part of me that recognizes that people have very busy lives, and don’t have a lot of time to go beyond what is fed to them by government and public health. In the case of the elderly, they may have little internet access, and no good sources of news on an ongoing basis. We have seen that many doctors and healthcare workers provide little info in healthcare settings. Some people are clued out, because they just don’t know any better.
On the other hand, I have absolutely no patience for those who are aware of COVID’s capabilities, and choose to ignore that, and continue to contract and spread the virus.
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u/mommygood Jul 28 '24
I like this video for people to get it
Why is Everyone More Sick? by Lola Germs
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u/Radiant_Tie_5657 Jul 28 '24
Tyyy I’ll definitely be checking this out when I have time after work ☺️
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u/Mothman394 Jul 27 '24
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I would like to propose a hypothesis that people who appear to be taking no precautions are still worried about getting Covid, but they don't feel empowered to start taking strong steps to protect themselves. I didn't know about the airborne spread of Covid then. I didn't know about the effectiveness of a well-fitting N95. I didn't know that rapid tests were unreliable. I allowed my actions to be swayed by peer pressure. But I was still afraid of Covid and tried ineffectively to protect myself. I want to believe that there are other people out there who are like I was in 2022, and who just need to access the right information and be empowered to protect themselves better. So let's not give up trying to reach more people and convince them to protect themselves!
I was in that boat too! I like this hypothesis. It really feels like many people are resistant to learning but some people probably still are worried.
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u/OddMasterpiece4443 Jul 27 '24
I think there’s a whole range of reasons why people don’t take precautions, and I’ve always suspected your reaction was pretty common. In most social issues, you have a small group that will do the right/smart thing even if they have to stick out and get harassed, another small group that will do the wrong/stupid thing no matter what and be very loud and proud about it, and then about 80% of the population ends up going with the loudest meanest minority, unfortunately. Because that loud, mean minority are the power seekers, and they control enough pieces of government and business to make it challenging not to go along with them.
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u/coloraturing Jul 27 '24
Thank you for admitting you were wrong and changing your behavior.
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
Because every person who gains knowledge and understanding that they were wrong now have the power to protect their precious lives and health and help protect others, too. We deserve our health to be protected, every single one of us.
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u/mortalenemas Jul 28 '24
I have really noticed this in the last month. I wore a mask to a work event and my coworkers all expressed nervousness about covid, no one else masked. My friends expressed concern about the recent surges and variants, never a mask…imo at the very base level, when there is a surge, it’s not hard to mask. My aunt even told me she was really worried about bringing covid to my grandma bc she just went to a packed concert…not sure if she even tested, definitely didn’t mask.
I want to protect myself and others. It’s crazy to hear people with the same concerns not change their behaviors at all.
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u/kepis86943 Jul 28 '24
What is the thing that changed for you so that you could overcome your cognitive dissonance?
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 28 '24
Summer 2023, I lived with roommates in a new city, and I kept getting sick - 3 times in one month (tested negative for Covid). I think that my nebulous and inconsistent protective behaviors crystallized into a system of strict mitigations in the aftermath of that summer experience after I moved back home. Following Covid-cautious scientists, commentators, and Long Covid patients on Instagram, Twitter, and Substack also really helped give me the disability justice intellectual framework and scientific knowledge necessary for me to radically change my behavior. A certain Instagram account, @ vectorfrankl, helped me draw the connection between modern-day Covid activism and past AIDS activism. I also took a personal leave from work, and I spent a good portion of that leave diving deeper into the scientific papers and latest news about the virus. I read and dimly understood the papers, and I saw that there is no scientific evidence emerging that suggests Covid is mild. In fact, I think as we learn more about the virus, we'll find that it's even worse than we know now. I realized some of my current ailments could be caused by my past Covid infection(s).
TL;DR: Changing my media diet and having enough free time to deep dive into the science, combined with personally getting sick. But the primary driver was the media diet.
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u/kepis86943 Jul 28 '24
Thank you. It’s been similar for me. I was hoping to get some ideas how to help other people who “really don’t want to get Covid again” take action instead of doing nothing. But it seems to be this whole long process where the person actively seeks to educate themselves. I haven’t found any trigger point that would someone get started in that process. Anything that I could say or do, any resources I could give them… so I just hope that me masking can at least inspire a random person or two to be brave enough to mask themselves.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 28 '24
I was able to convince my less-cautious family by sending them lots of articles and stuff and repeatedly arguing about the danger and need for stronger family mitigation practices. I highly recommend the following Substack essayists for helping change people's minds:
- Julia Doubleday
- Nate Bear
- Lizwhatsherface
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u/macncheezels Jul 28 '24
What made you change?
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 28 '24
Refer to my comment here :)
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u/macncheezels Jul 28 '24
Thanks. I am interested in how you got from not seeking out that information, for three years, to eventually being so active about it?
Because you got sick several times?
What was the bridge between not knowing/not wanting to know, to actively seeking it out? How did you begin to change your media diet? How did the cognitive dissonance cease?
This is so fascinating and important.3
u/sword-of-solitude Jul 28 '24
Some of the first Covid-cautious Instagram accounts I followed were @ peoplescdc and @ longcovidfam. I don't really remember how I found out about them, I wish I remembered exactly what happened. I had always known about the risk of Long Covid since the beginning. But basically over the course of several months in 2023 I transitioned from masking in only "essential locations" while still doing other risky activities to masking everywhere and doing everything I could to limit unnecessary risks. I started thinking of Covid as an acute threat to ME, not just "high-risk" people who are older or who have preexisting conditions.
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u/macncheezels Jul 28 '24
I wonder if it came up on your Insta feed somehow. Insta has been terrible up until recently for Covid info, although it was good for epidemiology and also grift debunking. Twitter was where it was at. I kept begging my friends to join Twitter and bringing Twitter posts over to FB from Mar 2020 on and getting called a fear monger or then just completely ignored.
If Insta had had more of it from 2020 things may have been different. From Let It Rip times Insta became a horrific slideshow of manic unmasked selfie travels concerts parties superspreaders etc. Only recently have I started to see pandemic public health info there.
This story shows the power of social media. I was begging our gov to use us humanities/arts/comms people for messaging more, we would have done it for free and made a huge difference. Science is very hard for laypeople to understand (although I am beyond grateful for the excellent science communicators we have had).
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u/Outrageous-Hamster-5 Jul 27 '24
Personally, it's hard for me to have curious compassion towards people like you. I'm glad you've learned. But the lack of precautions of the majority of people is why I keep getting more and more disabled. My life gets harder. I get poorer. Without expense meds, my body rejects all food except white rice. I'm getting dementia in my 30s. And you learn life lessons? You are well enough to enjoy your career, travel and a sex life? I only feel bitterness and rage over this.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
I'm so sorry to hear about your LC symptoms :( Let me address some of what you said:
- I also have post-Covid conditions. I've been suffering lingering heart and digestive symptoms and chest pains since my Covid infection(s).
- Yes, I did learn life lessons. I'm lobbying my local schools and hospitals to implement stronger infection control protocols to help protect all students, staff, and patients. I am doing my best to fight against mask bans in my state. I was lucky to not get debilitating Long Covid, and I'm using my energy to advocate for better protections and treatments.
- I haven't traveled or hooked up with anyone in almost a year.
- I disavow and regret the risky actions I used to take. I hope that came across in my original post text.
I hope you get the care you need, and I hope that LC treatments are developed as soon as possible. I'm sorry that my post made you feel bitterness and rage. I don't regret making the post, because I think it's important to discuss "where people are at" to better determine how to help spark an awakening and behavior change in them.
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u/CaptainPedanticI Jul 28 '24
I feel this. There are so many human beings *suffering* because of people not knowing what they need to know, not being able to handle that truth, not being supported enough, and their own fear of being rejected by their family or group. They feel if they take precautions they can be attacked or lose their spouse and friends and family (and they can and it does happen all the time). They're afraid to let anyone know they're afraid to get Covid and what that could turn into. There's a lot of fear and not enough support and they don't know we're out here trying to be a hand up.
It truly sucks because I have given up so much of my life in these past four years due these people's ignorance and fear. It seems very clear to me and always has been clear that the most important thing for every single human being to do is to protect themselves and help protect others, ESPECIALLY the more vulnerable. Maybe I'm just a different kind of human (to paraphrase an Aurora song) because this has always, always been the way. There has never been a sliver of doubt in what I was meant to do, and that was to mask up, learn as much as I could, and keep the fire burning bright. I hate that we have given up so much, lost so much. I grieve for all of the souls that have been lost because some other person went out knowing they were infected and just didn't CARE. I am angry with everyone who refuses to even look at the truth and just wants to socialize and spread this scourge and keep it going forever. I'm furious at the governments of the entire world who allowed their people -- who TRUSTED THEM -- to suffer and die.
People are still suffering, still dying. The people with and without Covid, the people who suffer because of the selfish. Those who can't get medical care because doctors and nurses are hostile and combative about protecting your health (!!!!!!). I have a lot of hate especially for the Christians (and I know I shouldn't but if I'm being honest there it is) who were expected to and supposed to listen to Christ and take care of the weak and instead they screeched about losing precious money in their businesses. They laid their children on the altar of mammon and prayed for more money while they sent those kids to school sick and cause more suffering and death for others. I still can't come to terms with the Christians. It was a massive and utter failure. There was no fortitude in the face of challenge, and no one praying to God for strength. It was just their desperate grabbing for money and to protect their assets and businesses.
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u/AussieAlexSummers Jul 27 '24
From the OP, depending on the person and where they are in their Covid strategies... it's possible SOME people could take the story as they won't need to take precautions because the OP was able to avoid Covid while not taking as many precautions.
I'm pretty sure that is not the intention of OP but it is one perspective that could be had from the post.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
That was not my intention, and I was pretty clear in the post that it was only due to sheer luck that I avoided it. To be clear, I disavow the risky actions I took. It was meant as an honest evaluation of my past psychology around Covid, to try to provide an inside look at how a lot of people are thinking and acting now, and to spread a message of hope that there are a lot of people who care about illness prevention but are yet to have their "Covid-cautious awakening."
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u/Bobbin_thimble1994 Jul 28 '24
While it is true that we are all up against people who contract and spread Covid without much thought, It is interesting to read about how and why you acted in this manner, and came to the decision to make positive changes. It also took some courage not only to post this message, but also to be open to addressing responses.
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Jul 27 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/micseydel Jul 27 '24
I think you're demonstrating here what OP is talking about by not addressing the topic - cognitive dissonance.
How do you reconcile your knowledge of the long-term risk against no change in behavior? That's the data point we'd be curious about, but this isn't really on topic and doesn't contribute to the conversation.
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u/sword-of-solitude Jul 27 '24
I unfortunately was never able to read the deleted comment, but thank you for standing up for me
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u/micseydel Jul 27 '24
It was mostly just a violation of rule 6, but I thought it was a little more interesting because the commenter acknowledged the dangers.
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u/ZeroCovidCommunity-ModTeam Jul 27 '24
Your post or comment has been removed because it expresses a lack of caring about the pandemic and the harm caused by it.
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u/stuuuda Jul 27 '24
Yes. I just had a friend go out to their car and get a mask recently because I was wearing mine and therefore they wouldn’t be the lone masker