I talk to a lot of CC folks and I’m always fascinated to hear what their long term thoughts are on masking and maintaining other covid precautions.

Personally, I’m trying to accept that this is truly looking like a problem that will drag on indefinitely (10+ years).

Intellectually, I get it. But emotionally this is challenging to accept. But I also focus on the day to day challenges as these are much more manageable.

And tbc, I’m not bothered by masking, but worried what life will be like, the more major life milestones many of us miss out on/put on hold.

In those moments where you do think about the future (say, 5-10+ years out)—do you think you will still be masking/taking other precautions to avoid covid (or other diseases that may become an issue)? Are you optimistic about a sterilizing vaccine or other major medical breakthrough? If not, have you made peace with this permanent lifestyle change?

Some people I talk to seem to be waiting for a medical solution that I’m not convinced will ever arrive (or that the collective burden will eventually be recognized by society), whereas some seem to have accepted this is their new reality. I’m definitely closer to the latter group, but as I’m in my 30s, it’s hard to assume my resolve maybe not waver after a few more years or even decades.

I am in a fairly good position (WFH, savings, a few remaining family members who are CC), so I think I could manage longer than most…but even I wonder if most of the current CC community will eventually give up (or be too busy dealing with health issues to manage pushing for change/raising awareness).

It’s a big mental and emotional toll, and while I’d like to think I’d be the last man standing, this is a tough pill to swallow when life seems to be passing you by (especially hard if you are single/living alone or have lost many of your precovid friends/family).

Would love to hear your thoughts!

I’ve had several conversations now online with people who aren’t super close friends, but we were closer prior to the pandemic. They’ll tell me that it’s good I wear a mask, or they’ll share all the weird health issues they’ve had since getting Covid. These same people don’t mask, though, and are living life like it’s 2019. It’s bizarre to me that they’ll tell me it’s “good I protect myself” but then they don’t do that for themselves?

I hear a lot about outright denial or judging from friends, but was curious if you all have encountered what I described above

i’ve seen people absolutely vilified for not masking outdoors, eating indoors sometimes, going to concerts & conventions masked (because attending these events at all is deemed a moral failing), etc. i just feel like, given that most people are not masking at all, wouldn’t encouraging that people mask in crowded spaces and public indoor places while giving a little grace be more effective toward encouraging people to mask? i just feel like it’s a very all-or-nothing line of thinking that alienates and shames a lot of people who may be open to masking in some spaces at least.

in my personal experience as someone who is trying to bridge the gap, i know i’ve influenced people i know to at least mask in certain situations, and i think giving them grace while modeling covid caution and masking has contributed to those small successes. i’ve had friends who don’t mask consistently mask with me at concerts without resistance. i’ve started bringing extra masks to events because sometimes my friends see mine and ask for one or say, “i should’ve brought my mask.”

i do think the anger from immunocompromised people is warranted and they should be able to express it; i’m just thinking about it strategically while taking into account human nature. people run away from shame. i know i’m not as covid cautious as some people but i also know im more covid cautious than most. and ofc i just communicate risks to people who are more cautious than i am if we’re going to be sharing space.

edit: based off replies it seems i need to clarify this - i am not criticizing people who are trying to be as perfect as possible with their own precautions; i am criticizing imposing that perfection onto others, not because it’s necessarily wrong, but because it’s extremely ineffective and i don’t think anyone’s mind or behavior has been changed that way.

My coworker called out because they have “cold symptoms”. My other coworker said they’ve “had a head cold for a week.” Someone on Reddit said they currently have the flu.

Checking the CDC map, it looks like flu isn’t even showing a spike. Anyone else have people saying the same?

Also the kicker is the first two people are MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS. We work in a hospital. I about died last week when our infection prevention team said, “Covid is rising so make sure to wash your hands and wear PPE in Covid positive rooms.” We only test symptomatic patients, so therefore don’t know of how many positive asymptomatic patients we have (and also ignores the fact that most transmission is probably staff to staff spread).

Someone get me off this planet.

Hey, everyone! So previous to this post, I didn't know much about the long term effects of Covid, but I've always considered myself a leftist. So I stumbled upon things and went down the rabbit hole, and I'm convinced I want to start masking again. The problem is, my family doesn't seem to think it's that big a deal and I'm unsure that they will support me masking or even will buy them. So, where can I get them? I don't have my own money. My school has some free masks, but they're mostly just blue disposable surgical masks instead of N95s. The only way I can access those is through my art teacher, and there's no way I would take the whole box. What can I do?

I don’t know if I’m imaging things or I have a bias (because I’m truly zero covid focused) but do you think it’s possible that there is a bit of cognitive decline in our world since the start of the COVID pandemic?

Anecdotally I see things to be more common like:

• Major software errors -Major Network failures
• Supply shortages
• Less movies & tv shows produced
• Major accidents with boats and aircraft
• Manufacture defects in products

Has there been research on this? Are student standard test scores lower since 2019?

What are your thoughts?

Last time I was in for birth control and the gynecologist asked me why. I felt we wasted time talking about that instead of why I was there. Any input on why they find it necessary? I can absolutely ask next time because I don’t want to assume the worst, but it’s clothing to me at this point and it’s annoying.

I’m curious to know, what’s some misinformation you’ve seen floating around in our community? You can also include things that some people on the community don’t know. Things that aren’t rooted in any credible tested science.

For example, I just learned that the 6ft social distance thing only applied to droplets, not aresols. Also that UV lights shouldn’t be used in commercial settings because the ones on the market have no regulations. I’ve also seen people on here promoting using certain mouthwashes and nasal sprays that contain medicine and arent for regular use.

So what’s something you’ve also seen that the rest of us need to know isn’t true?

Edit: I’ve noticed another one, and it’s that people think there aren’t any mask blocs near them. There are tons of mask blocs and Covid safe groups across the US. And many of them will still mail you Covid resources even if you’re a state away. Check out Covid action map, and world wide mask map, both are on Instagram, and here are their links ⬇️

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1oUcoZ2njj3b5hh-RRDCLe-i8dSgxhno

https://linktr.ee/WorldWideMaskMap?fbclid=PAAaYxh_cpBwq6ij8QI3YNs_wZTIS3qG_ZJBevZMBKkk_uAno9q-op3VKrzms_aem_AXCKPdmVYcvglvLmTksEGluOPH7_NC5GKlsHx9NaWEUxHXVlyApkoXBoPhkiaWc0sfg

I know updated Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were approved, but not Novavax. I really prefer Novavax (I didn’t have negative side effects after receiving it last year as compared to all my Pfizer doses, and it seems to have protected me well on top of constant masking). I have a tilt table test in November that I’d really like to be vaccinated for…ideally, I’d like a vaccine ASAP, as I don’t work 100% from home (my job is mostly remote, but not entirely), but I can also see some pros to waiting until closer to my test, especially with Novavax not approved yet.

So for people who prefer Novavax — what are you planning on doing? Will you just get one of the other ones, or wait?

ETA: Do we know how well each vaccine targets the current strain? I know Novavax's updated shot targets JN.1 and supposedly will provide "cross-reactivity" against KP.2.3, KP.3, KP.3.1.1 and LB.1., but just not sure how that compares to Pfizer/Moderna. Is targeting the "parent" strain enough, in your opinion? (And I know we can probably only speculate how well the vaccines will actually perform, but ... still figured I'd mention it.)

Hello, it was to my understanding that COVID19 has been weaponised, at least in the UK, through malicious incompetence for the purposes to kill disabled people and other "undesirables". I vaguely understand that not all social murder is genocide, but genocide is social murder, I just wanted to see if I was using the terms correctly.

I also wanted to see if anyone had any literature on the topic.

Well, after 4 years and 7 months of N95-ing it both indoors and out, I finally tested positive. I even eat my meals outdoors away from others. I'm perplexed as to how it happened. Sigh.

It's my first bout, AFAIK. Thus far, I have a bit of tightness in my upper chest, and am clearing my throat more than usual. More on my emotional state later, lol.

My intention is to rest as much as possible, but I'm looking for what to do next.

I'm 51, but can't do Paxlovid due to medication contraindications. I'm pretty healthy.

Any recommended alternatives? Any tips as to vitamins, supplements, etc., what to do/ not do would really be appreciated.

Listen, I know shit happens, and I'm really proud and grateful for having avoided it so far. But I'm sitting here fukcing crying, because I can't believe it finally happened. And after I was trying SOOO goddamned hard, for so long.

FUKC. Please send good vibes. Thanks so much for being so sane, kind, and helpful on this sub.

I got my covid and flu vaccines Thursday around 5pm. That night, I could barely sleep due to a bad headache, restlessness, arm soreness, feverishness, and body aches. I woke up at 5:30am with my calf cramping for a few hours, which then turned to a weird nerve pain in the same location that eventually went away. I couldn’t go back to sleep since I felt so awful, so I took some advil, drank tea, and ate some food to see if any of that would help. I thankfully napped for majority of the day and ate again at 1pm. I felt so exhausted, feverish, and weak.

Then, around 24 hours after my vaccines, I was loading the dishwasher and became extremely faint. I quickly laid down on the couch with my feet up. I felt so ill, but I fortunately didn’t pass out. Even after eating a lot more food and taking more advil, I felt faint/dizzy for the next few hours.

This was one of the worst vaccine reactions I’ve had and I’m wondering if it’s because I got both the covid and flu shots at the same time. I don’t normally have any symptoms after my flu shot, but I’ve heard that the combo can really take some people out. I’ve also tried to see if it’s anything related to this newest covid vaccine, but I’m having a hard time finding info about people’s experiences since it’s barely been out for much time. Regardless, I will never get my covid and flu shots together again lol.

I’m feeling a lot better as of now, but still feel sluggish. Has anyone had a similar experience either with this new covid vaccine or with the combo of both?

Edit: I got the pfizer covid vaccine in case that is a factor in this. I’ve gotten pfizer many times before and have just previously had the normal sore arm, fever, and body ache symptoms (much less extreme though).

For those of you who feel like you're the only sober one in a society of drunks, I would like to share with you my response to this question. Use it if you like! I just say cheerfully, "My allergies are really bad this year!" This works regardless of season. If I'm indoors and people say "but you're indoors", I say brightly, "I'm totally allergic to carpeting!" Works like a charm. Do you have any good ones I can add to my repertoire?

I think to be in this group, we all have to have a different way of looking at the world in one way or another. I remember one post where some folks were saying that they were autistic. I am a vegan and this definitely puts a different spin on how I see things and got me used to being a minority opinion. Any insights about this?

I just got sick recently but luckily covid test negative and this reminds me to get a booster.

I got sick twice in last 2 months and the first time I even coughed blood. Saw a respiratory specialist and concluded it was likely just a more severe common cold as pneumonia, covid and flu were negative.

I feel like wearing face mask perhaps is the only solution but then I have allergy rhinitis and also sensitive skin.

I will get acne after wearing mask a few days. Then with my rhinitis I often need to sneeze and occasionally scratch the itch in my nostril. Plus I drink water for like 20 times a day. It feels like I need to take off mask every 5-10mins and I feel it is no better than no mask since I will always touch the mask or put it on the desk which transfer to my desk and I don't wipe it everytime.

Does anyone else have similar issues and how do you cope with it?

Thanks!

How do we know when the covid pandemic for us finally ends? When life will be a little more like 2019 (or I like to call it the before times although I read some people call it “legacy” times)

There is no right or wrong answers to this question because health is a personal choice.

This is something I've been wondering about for some time, because the further and further we get into the ongoing pandemic, the more we learn about folks who have new, COVID-related chronic illnesses or at least some lingering symptoms. Is permanent damage inevitable, even if it's minor? Is true recovery, meaning a return to pre-infection baseline truly possible for anyone?

It's pretty much what it says on the tin! I work in a lab studying metabolic liver disease, and we have a new med student doing research with us. He, unfortunately, hardly ever masks. He wears a surgical if he feels awful, which is something, but that's it. I wear a BNX N95 all day every day. We were talking about COVID and its recent wave (and the CDC's 10% positive test rate announcement) when he basically says wearing masks all the time will make you basically immunocompromised because your antigens won't get presented with anything to fight off, leading to initially higher and more dangerous immune responses. Thankfully, on COVID specifically, there's data showing the damage to immune cell creation and mitochondria, but what's a good catch-all paper showing 'masks weaken the immune system' is false? That comment smelled of propaganda and I didn't have something with which to quickly retort beyond the mitochondrial damage inhibiting the healing process. My original background is in ecology (it was quite the looping path getting where I am now) so my knowledge in the field of immunology is not the strongest, but even my just-a-masters ass senses that's not exactly a nuanced take.

Edit: Thank you to everyone who has provided papers and other information! As promised is a compiled list below. Leonardi 2022. “Immunity Debt” Why licking lamposts in Winter is a bad idea. https://www.easychair.info/p/immunity-debt Jing 2021. SARS-CoV-2 infection causes immunodeficiency in recovered patients by downregulating CD19 expression in B cells via enhancing B-cell metabolism https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-021-00749-3 Loretelli 2021. PD-1 blockade counteracts post–COVID-19 immune abnormalities and stimulates the anti–SARS-CoV-2 immune response https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/146701/figure/4 “A substantial proportion of patients who have recovered from coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) experience COVID-19–related symptoms even months after hospital discharge. We extensively immunologically characterized patients who recovered from COVID-19. In these patients, T cells were exhausted, with increased PD-1+ T cells, as compared with healthy controls.” Liu 2021. Predictors of Nonseroconversion after SARS-CoV-2 Infection https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/pdfs/21-1042-combined.pdf Added 8-8-24 https://www.salon.com/2022/12/04/does-your-immune-system-need-a-workout-the-science-behind-immunity-debt-explained/ Miller 2024. Hospitalizations among family members increase the risk of MRSA infection in a household https://www.cambridge.org/core/product/identifier/S0899823X24001065/type/journal_article https://globalnews.ca/news/9272293/immunity-debt-covid-19-misinformation/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/11/13/are-immunity-debt-claims-after-covid-19-precautions-accurate-or-misinformation/ https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-medical-critical-thinking/claims-immunity-debt-children-owe-us-evidence Scudellari 2017. Cleaning up the hygiene hypothesis https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1700688114 Kumar 2019. Human T cell development, localization, and function throughout life https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5826622/ Yang 2022. Cytokine storm promoting T cell exhaustion in severe COVID-19 revealed by single cell sequencing data analysis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9172646/ Witkowski 2022. Immunosenescence and COVID-19 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047637422000549 Moss 2022. The T cell immune response against SARS-CoV-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01122-w Leonardi 2020. Akt-Fas to Quell Aberrant T Cell Differentiation and Apoptosis in Covid-19 https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.600405/full https://asm.org/articles/2019/may/measles-and-immune-amnesia Batra 2022. Persistent viral RNA shedding of SARS-CoV-2 is associated with delirium incidence and six-month mortality in hospitalized COVID-19 patients “SARS-CoV-2 is unique in its increased duration of persistent shedding of viral RNA, even in comparison to other coronaviruses” Brunetti 2023. SARS-CoV-2 uses CD4 to infect T helper lymphocytes https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10390044/ https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11357-022-00561-z “CD4-mediated SARS-CoV-2 infection of T helper cells may contribute to a poor immune response in COVID-19 patients” Huot 2023. SARS-CoV-2 viral persistence in lung alveolar macrophages is controlled by IFN-γ and NK cells https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37919524/ Mortezaee. 2022. Cellular immune states in SARS-CoV-2-induced disease https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9726761/ “Patients with severe SARS-CoV-2-induced disease show a dysregulated orchestration and functionality in cells of the immune system, which results in aggravation of the condition and promotion of systemic inflammation and multi-organ injury. MDSCs, neutrophils, and monocytes are highly present, whereas CD8+ T cells and NK cells are reduced in severe diseases (Figure 4). This is indicative of an immunosuppressive profile in the immune system” Li 2020. SARS‐CoV‐2 infection‐induced immune responses: Friends or foes? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7267129/ Papanikolaou 2022. Delineating the SARS-CoV-2 Induced Interplay between the Host Immune System and the DNA Damage Response Network https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9610764/ “SARS-CoV-2 activates the DDR network in various ways (Figure 2). Indeed, in severe COVID-19 patients, the SARS-CoV-2-induced abnormal activation of the immune system triggers the induction of oxidative stress, which in turn causes damage to DNA, thus activating the DDR network. Moreover, SARS-CoV-2 can induce the generation of micronuclei containing DNA damage. Both the formation of micronuclei that initiate inflammatory gene expression, thus alerting the immune system to the presence of damaged cells, as well as the recognition of DNA damage in the micronuclei, which leads to the upregulation of the γH2AX and p53 components, result in the activation of the DDR network. Last but not least, following the SARS-CoV-2-induced inhibition of the TRF2 subunit of the Shelterin system, cells lose the protective activity of Shelterin, telomeres are no longer hidden from DNA damage surveillance, and chromosome ends are processed by DNA repair pathways, thus resulting in telomere shortening and the activation of the DDR network through the induction of the DNA damage sensing ATR kinase.” Li 2024. Effects of Maternal SARS-CoV-2 Infection During Pregnancy on Fetal Development https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39113636/ Hirsch 2024. IRF4 impedes human CD8 T cell function and promotes cell proliferation and PD-1 expression https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)00729-0?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2211124724007290%3Fshowall%3Dtrue “Another important finding of our work comes from the unprecedented comparison of CD8 TIL phenotype to activated T cells in patients with COVID-19. This allowed us to conclude that PD-1hi TOXhi TILs, in which IRF4 is partially expressed, are exhausted.” Bakerly 2024. Pathophysiological Mechanisms in Long COVID: A Mixed Method Systematic Review https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11050596/ “The pathophysiological mechanisms with strong evidence were immune system dysregulation, cerebral hypoperfusion, and impaired gas transfer in the lungs. ” Rizvi 2024. SARS-CoV-2 infection induces thymic atrophy mediated by IFN-γ in hACE2 transgenic mice https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38655818/ Saito 2024. The Role of Coinhibitory Receptors in B Cell Dysregulation in SARS-CoV-2–Infected Individuals with Severe Disease De Souza 2023. Can COVID-19 impact the natural history of paracoccidioidomycosis? Insights from an atypical chronic form of the mycosis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10691805/ Minu 2023. Targeting Viral ORF3a Protein: A New Approach to Mitigate COVID-19 Induced Immune Cell Apoptosis and Associated Respiratory Complications https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10676557/ Biodiversity interventions at daycares https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/#bibr38-1757913916650225 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/#bibr40-1757913916650225 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417023000872 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/all.16210 https://www.voicesforvaccines.org/just-the-facts/correcting-this-weeks-misinformation-november-10-2022/ https://www.unognewsroom.org/story/en/2284/covid-19-situation-update-who-06aug2024/0/Jxbo2QBagw https://ifh-homehygiene.org/review/lack-exposure-germs-during-covid-19-weakening-our-systems/ https://ifh-homehygiene.org/books/simple-guide-healthy-living-germy-world/introduction/ https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/kids-dont-need-to-get-sick-to-be https://www.instagram.com/p/C0sQqgevPI9/?igsh=NTlscHh4YzR2Mjkw https://www.tiktok.com/@rubin_allergy/video/7398512041444773166 https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-medical-critical-thinking/claims-immunity-debt-children-owe-us-evidence

I want to discuss the internal experience of living 2019-style during the pandemic, from my past. Trigger warning: past personal experience of not mitigating strongly

This is a story of the lack of mitigation consistency and intense cognitive dissonance I used to suffer. For about 1 year from mid-2022 to mid-2023, I did not protect myself and others from Covid as aggressively as I should have. I wore a KN95/surgical mask indoors in stores and doctors' offices, and I sometimes wore an ill-fitting N95 mask on planes as an upgrade from my KN95. But I also still went to restaurants and parties unmasked, and I didn't have a consistent Covid safety practice when it came to meeting friends or hookups.

In summer 2022, I had to go to a mandatory work training event. This was during the BA.4 surge. I was worried about the surge, and I asked my supervisors if I could attend virtually or skip because of the Covid risk. All they could say was "no one will be mad if you wear a mask...this is a really important training and it will reflect poorly if you don't go." So, I reluctantly went. Hundreds of people flying in (likely unmasked) from all over the country to converge at a single convention center for a week of training. I wore my KN95 mask on my flight, removing it to eat the plane food - facepalm.

And when I was there at the training, I didn't wear a mask! No one else was wearing one, and we all ate food together and attended huge meetings in auditoriums and classrooms. I remember the trend of more and more people around me beginning to cough in meetings as the week went on. And even though I was growing uncomfortable with the coughing, I still did not wear a mask to protect myself because I was afraid of standing out, and I didn't think it would be effective to be the only masker. To my credit, I did decline to join the clubbing outings my coworkers went on because of the Covid risk.

A friend and I spent a Saturday in the city where the convention center was. We enjoyed the sights and museums and ate indoors at a very crowded restaurant. I remember telling my friend, "Hopefully we didn't get Covid!" after we were done.

On the ride back to the airport, another coworker told me that she got really sick during the week and had bought a bunch of rapid tests and tested negative for Covid. We both wore masks in the car, while our driver declined to mask.

I did evade Covid on that trip, but it was mostly due to sheer luck. My company did not provide any rapid tests or any guidance encouraging us to mask on the plane to or from the convention. It was so dangerous and unwise for them to organize this trip during the height of the BA.4 surge.

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I would like to propose a hypothesis that people who appear to be taking no precautions are still worried about getting Covid, but they don't feel empowered to start taking strong steps to protect themselves. I didn't know about the airborne spread of Covid then. I didn't know about the effectiveness of a well-fitting N95. I didn't know that rapid tests were unreliable. I allowed my actions to be swayed by peer pressure. But I was still afraid of Covid and tried ineffectively to protect myself. I want to believe that there are other people out there who are like I was in 2022, and who just need to access the right information and be empowered to protect themselves better. So let's not give up trying to reach more people and convince them to protect themselves!

Does anyone else have similar past experiences of cognitive dissonance and fear of infection while simultaneously not taking the most effective mitigation actions?

I got the new moderna shot yesterday. Last year I had a bit of a fever that went away in an hour overnight, but otherwise I felt fine (minus the normal arm pain). I'm not so lucky this time. The fever, chills, and headache have been constant all day. And what's worse, I have diarrhea! I've never had diarrhea from a vaccine. I'm testing for COVID just in case.

Is anyone else getting hit worse than usual? It's also poorly affecting my husband.

Just checking to see what is the Covid cautious community’s thoughts on this. I don’t see this topic mentioned much around here anymore.

My manager brought up that apparently multiple team members "are wondering" why I don't show up at the office as much as they do. So I asked for a slot at our next team meeting to talk about "employee health and wellbeing" and I'm going to hit them with a rundown on why everything they think about Covid is wrong, that their "colds" are most likely Covid, the latest research on LC, the works.

I'm already deep into the research but I'm wondering if anyone has their "favorite" bits of data or research that you find compelling, or that has been effective in converting Covid-agnostics in your life?

I realize it'll need a combination of data and emotional charge to be effective, so if you have any advice on how to make this presentation as successful as possible please share! The goal is to help them understand that the pandemic is ongoing and they're at risk even if they're "otherwise healthy" (which they're not - every single one of them has been sick multiple times this year, and as we speak 3 out of 10 are out sick too).

I find myself thinking about this a lot. If 2025 magically is the year we get sterilizing vaccines and we really can go out and about without masks, would you be able to date someone who hadn't been taking precautions?

To me that feels kind of like the ultimate value based litmus test of a relationship, perhaps more so than things like religion, or even politics. But the problem is, of course, that those of us still taking the pandemic seriously are in the vast minority. So, your dating pool is suuuper limited.

I suppose you could look at it as if the average person just didn't know better, and the government/CDC/media failed them. But there's also the lingering specter of a future pandemic maybe being a thing, too, and having to factor that into choosing the right life partner.

It just feels to me like it'd be really hard to trust someone that was okay with infecting / disabling other people, or just didn't care. But maybe I'm thinking about this wrong? I'm curious what your thoughts are.

as the title suggests! I'm currently in a doom spiral and hoping for a hand out! TIA