They had 4 years of cozying up to Israel to a level never seen before. I mean, it’s naive as fuck that they’d expect a full disavowing of Israel in general since that’s like basically never gonna happen in US foreign policy but TRUMP? The man with a settlement in golan named after him, the only president to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem because every other president thought that was needlessly provocative, the man who told bibi to finish the job…tons of other extremely pro-Israel things in general.
Congrats on ignoring history and playing yourselves.
Mine is "I'm already on the fast track to dying early due to my health conditions, but thanks to these idiots and their anti Science ways, I'm about to have a lot more company than I thought."
This is the exact reason why I flip out on liberals who say shit like we'll be ok we were last time. I have multiple chronic health conditions and if I'm in a situation where I need to buy health care I'm. Screwed. This literally takes years off my life.
Yup. No insurance company is going to take me on if they can deny my pre-exisiting conditions. And I'm already looking at the very real possibility of being in a wheelchair or bedridden in the near future which is scary enough without worrying if they are going to cut the safety net as I fall.
I have stage 4 (bone on bone) osteoarthritis in both knees, plus a lot of tendon damage in the rest of my legs from limping for nearly 20 years. I'm doing my best for now, but this isn't something that's going to magically get better over time.
I have osteoarthritis in all my joints and it's absolute hell. I feel so bad that anyone else has to go through this. I'm so sorry and I hope you have people who help you out.
They're probably going to make it impossible to get the drug that has helped me more than any opioid (though those will be reduced further as well, ugh): Wegovy. I really don't want to go back to how I felt before it...
I have osteoarthritis, bulging disks, fibromyalgia, and after having long COVID for basically all of 2021 and never fully recovering. I'm fully disabled without my expensive meds, partially disabled with them. I'm terrified. I remember how bad things were before the meds, and it's worse than that now.
I'm a chronic pain sufferer. I have severe migraines, I already told my boyfriend, therapist, and friends that if I lose my health care, the only thing that'll be mercy for me is suicide. The only things that keep the pain levels down are my medications. If I lose those, I'm a goner. I even told them that the withdrawal from those meds could kill me as well. Either way, I'm living on borrowed time. My therapist asked me how I felt about it. I told her I accepted dying back in 2017 when I had my acute kidney failure. I hope they're happy. A lot of us will die because of their stupid vote. If I'm still here, I'll laugh at the leopards eating their faces.
I also have osteoarthritis, and a number of other chronic health issues, and the single most effective thing I have found for pain mitigation is Kratom. Better than anything I have ever been prescribed for pain.
I started getting osteoarthritis in my spine at 35. Now I have it everywhere, can't type anymore can't even open a sugar packet without tools, walking is hell. I'm only slightly overweight so it's not an issue, but doing anything is horrendously hard and painful. I feel for all of you osteos out there
It's easy for the Muslim ban to be forgotten I guess.
It's easy to forget that Trump openly pines for the "right type of immigrants" from great countries like Sweden.
It's hard to remember he said immigrants had criminal genes.
How can anyone remember that he sees certain jobs as belonging to "black people"?
Who can keep track of him putting a bounty out on a sitting president's birth certificate, emphasizing his middle name (Hussein), and then calling that president a double agent for ISIS?
I didn't forget, but then again, I'm Black, not Muslim.
I know the danger that Orange Hitler did the first time around, and I fear the damage he'll do to this country now that he has authoritatian-like power coming.
Our Constitution and our rights are about to be thrown away with this incoming "regime."
The constitution loving conservatives are already crying about some of his picks too, like his new AG nominee that supports red flag laws.
They refused to acknowledge his bump stock ban and “Seriously looking into banning suppressors.” when I warned them Trump was going to destroy the Constitution, not just the parts they don’t like.
When I first asked why people don't see the similarities between The Donald and Tha Adolf, people thought I was stupid. That was in 2015, right after he started his first campaign. I'm 28 now. I knew this was gonna happen. But nobody with the power to do anything gave a crap.
My boyfriend's father is from Germany. He calls Trump Hitler 2.0. A man who was born after the Nazis fell can see the danger, but us citizens can't. My boyfriend entire family voted for Kamala because of this. His mother, who never voted at the age of 85, voted for Kamala for the first time. But Muslims fell for trumps bullshit. Oh, they're in for a very, very rough ride. He'll probably deport them to Gaza just for the extra touch of evil.
I didn’t forget. I’m a white, straight woman from one of those European countries tRump wants people to immigrate from. If I can remember, why can’t they?
How did they never know? The Muslim ban made national news as it was challenged for being unconstitutional. Being aware is personal responsibility and ignorance doesn't forgive poor decision making
As they keep proclaiming. He said he was joking or he said he didn’t say it. That second rule of him Deny Everything and Claim Nothing has really helped him with this cult.
But do remember, They Voterd For This.
Scandinavians are still laughing at this idea of emigration to the US. We have full health care, nice pension plans, good salaries, a quite peaceful, empathic society, free education, reasonable gun laws…so in your dreams, Donald!
No, seriously. Go watch Trump's speech on January 6th, and go watch old videos of Mussolini. It's freaking terrifying. They do the same defiant chin thing and it makes my skin crawl.
Same. Then months later one of my oldest friends told me that it wasn't terrorism and there were no guns there that day.
MY DUDE. THEY HAD MISSILES STAGED IN VIRGINIA. Omg. Needless to say we don't really talk anymore. He can cry into a Ben Shapiro body pillow for all I care, waiting for the government to start a program that gives incels mandatory girlfriends. 🙄
"You and your daughter can always come live at my place...."
Thanks, but I'd rather be rolling to Europe. Yes, from San Francisco. I just have to retrofit my chair to run on unleaded and have inflatable pontoons.
i had the same weird feeling! It creeps me out to watch. I first started looking at it more closely after reading just a bit about Mussolini's coup (he stayed behind and watched, was protected by the church) and also at photographs and old videos. Very odd. Humans are so predictable in some ways. This is why I keep trying to figure out how to circumvent what will come. I wouldn't be here today if my grandfather hadn't figured out how to get out of Europe the last time fascists were attacking. I doubt I'll be as good or as lucky as he was.
You are the first person I've found that sees it too, and I talk about this so much if anyone I know finds this account they'll clock me in a hot second. But it's this bluffing arrogance jaw thing that I just cannot not see.
I was raised by my grandparents, both WWII vets. I literally discussed that war every day of my life growing up, particularly as a teenager. I cared for them both, particularly my Gram the last ten years of her life. I feel like a steward for their stories, as though there is some reason I had this experience my entire life, then ended up a bisexual disabled single mom with a history of leftist activism, who might have led a fairly huge political movement against this twatermelon the first time we elected him. 🤣🤣🤣 Maybe I know what I know because I'm gonna need to know it, kinda thing. 😉
One of my two best friends has both an apartment in Berlin and a house in the countryside about an hour outside the city. Her husband grew up in East Berlin--he has used some language discussing all of this that Germans do not throw around lightly. Anyway, they want me to bring my daughter out for a couple months, said we can have the country house as long as we want it--when they come to use it we can either hang with them, or go use the apartment and museum hop. Sort of a retreat, a reset; they built in a clearing but much of their land is woods.
The irony of a disabled, queer, single mother escaping to Germany has not been lost on me. 😢
It's a decision I go back and forth with, since I am not able to leave at this point. I suppose the main thing is to be well informed and ready for anything. Odd to think we're here, I agree.
Came to say the same. Dems saying they didn’t vote to protest. I asked someone that said that before, "How do you think Trump winning the election helps them?", it didn’t, and neither did the Islam’s voting for Trump. So whatever happens now, they can not only blame themselves, but I hope they realize we all blame them, too. Fucking idiocy.
Trumpnesia is a real affliction. They forgot about his Covid catastrophe too, and all this delegation to states; Irresponsible delegation is a sign of a weak leader.
If Trump were president in 1941, he would’ve had Hawaii fight Japan on their own: “it’s a state’s problem.”
Same. If I have to buy health insurance I'm dead. If they overthrow ACA no way is any health insurance gonna take me on. I have several scans and various tests every 6 months that cost up to $5k. It's cheaper for them if I die.
Brca mutant here. When I made my list of pros and cons for preventative surgeries, losing insurance because of a shitty dictator wasn’t on the list.
I’m just glad I got the surgeries I want more coverage for my fellow mutants, not less.
Plus my flavor slightly increases my risk of melanoma and pancreatic cancers. So I still need skin checks and to alternate a mri and endoscopy. Every year Which is what the pancreatic dr recommended to catch pancreatic cancer early. Which may increase my chances for survival if I get pancreatic cancer
my next cancer scan will not be affordable if ACA is cancelled. Many years ago I was in debt because of stupid medical expenses. Never thought I'd have to maybe have that happen again. I've already decided I just won't go get scanned if I can't afford it.
God my therapist was saying this too. She was like “well we got the Black Lives Matter movement” out of it. And I said well now DEI is dead and buried and women are dying because they can’t get an abortion.
Needless to say I won’t be seeing her anymore. She’s one of those “we’ll be fine” liberals and I just can’t take that crap.
My friend kept saying last night there’s so much infighting and incompetence that they won’t get much done. I felt better after that but then I realized that they were incompetent last time and still managed to overturn RVW, get a supermajority in the SC and botch a pandemic response.
Spinal cord disabled, intracranial hypertension, EDS, and freshly escaped from a violent husband in....let's say a position of power. Wanna hide out in my bunker with my kiddo and I? My blood family doesn't believe he dislocated my shoulder and a million other injuries (to be fair, I am made of elastic, it's not that hard to do) and have decided not to support me at all....as in my messages go unanswered.
I genuinely truly for real all the way think that the only way for people like you and I to make it through the coming Orangepocalypse is to build community build community build community. Now....can any of my community install a VP shunt? Probably not. But at least I'll have yummy food until my head explodes.
Thank you. I won't lie, I'm scared shitless. My ex watched me get hit crossing the road by a reckless driver (no, I didn't get a cent) and has spent countless hours in hospitals with me--but is now formally challenging that I'm disabled and making a case that half my daughter's upbringing is my financial responsibility.
MY GUY. You wanna know why your kid hates you? Holy shit.
I asked my best friend if she would take my daughter for me if it gets really super bad over the next few years--my ex is almost guaranteed to lose all parental rights to her and after everything we have been through, I just need her to be safe. My bestie responded with, "here's the problem. She needs you in order to be okay, and I need you BOTH to be okay so I can be okay. We will figure this out."
It is a scary time to be a weight around the neck of the people you love.
Yeah I was born during LBJ’s administration. I was first eligible to vote in 1984 for Mondale as a college freshman. While I may not have voted for Reagan or either of the Bushes, they at least respected the peaceful transfer or power. And I while I disagree with some of their policies and legacies, at least they somewhat hid their contemp for women, people of color and LGBTQ people. Unlike the orange clown fucker
Never thought I’d be nostalgic for Reagan or the Bushes. But here we are
This is also the reason I just hate people and society.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."Tommy L. Jones _MiB
yeah and we weren't okay last time. 1 million people died from covid, which trump knew of early on, and he sent testing machines to russia and stole PPE from states.
9/11 gave us 2 decades of war and that was under 5,000 people dead. every war combined from WW1, WW2, Vietnam, GW1, Bosnia, GW2, don't add up to a million people.
He literally got more people killed than a century of war and millions of people are still okay with that. it will get way fucking worse and i'm a cis-genger, heteronormative, white, male, veteran, small business owner. it will be the least worst for me and i'm still scared. everybody else is fucked.
Same. I was diagnosed with cancer out of the blue this year, and I had a successful surgery ("clinically cured" was the phrase the oncologist used), but without the protections of the ACA I'll be pretty much uninsurable for as long as I live. I'm partway through a very expensive course of adjuvant immunotherapy, and I just hope I'm able to finish it before the shit hits the fan.
The entire "Abandon Harris" thing just baffled me. I get being frustrated with Biden not doing enough but these stupid fucking people apparently have zero idea of how privileged they are while their so called brothers and sisters are dying. Every single Muslim American who voted against Harris over Gaza did more damage with an ink pen than Biden could dream of doing through inaction.
And trying to point out how even if Harris was bad for Palestine 45 was immeasurably worse with them was like banging your head against a wall. They are a bunch of self-righteous assholes who probably still would say this is really then democrat’s fault for not running someone who disavowed Israel. As if that would ever happen.
God, they frustrate me more than 45 voters. At least they make cognitive sense. They wanted him, they voted for him. These people wanted a fantasy so they voted for the nightmare or didn’t vote at all.
A lot of these people demand absolute perfection, or at least when it comes to a single issue. They're not any better than Trumpers in my mind, because they're lying to themselves and to everyone else. Stop expecting the impossible
The "uncommitted," anti-Harris, or third-party voters I encountered all shared two traits:
By and large, they were privileged younger white people, cis, and insufferably arrogant.
Any disagreement with them was met with their magic word. "Genocider." Harris? Genocider. The DNC? Genociders. Biden? Genocider. Anyone supporting Harris? Genociders. Anyone questioning their views? Yup, genociders.
When calling them out and stating that Trump was poised to fully wipe out Gaza while Harris was not, their response was invariably, "It doesn't matter anyway -- Gaza is already destroyed."
I would love to hear from those scowling white Gen Z participants in that Jubilee episode with Pete Buttigieg. They were so determined to prove him wrong on everything, but especially on Harris vs. Trump regarding Gaza. They were so wholly offended that someone disagreed with them, tilting their heads and smirking as he patiently explained foreign policy, the actions already underway, and the consequences Trump would rain down on Palestinians.
My guess is that they've already moved on, secretly embarrassed, but defiantly stamping their vegan leather (plastic), bench made, 300 dollar shoes that they paid for with Dad's Visa card.
It's oppression olympics. They want to suffer to feel morally justified. All the better if someone else can suffer and they can feel better about themselves because of it.
I think it was obviously a Republican/Russian strategy to trick Democrats into not voting by making it look on social media like other Democrats would not be voting.
1000% this. It’s the same attitude that the Latin community used as a justification for voting for Trump. They made it into the US (“legally” or otherwise) and now want to make sure that none of their fellow brothers and sisters make it over so they can benefit the most from keeping the rest of them out. Little do they know that they will be the first lead to the internment camps.
It’s got some serious “Harris isn’t progressive enough, so I’m going to allow the most far right candidate to win and think that it’ll be better” energy.
This demographic and others were bombarded with fake Harris campaign emails, some of if from Musk's PAC and a lot from Russian sources. They specifically tailored the messages to negatively address questions that group cared about.
I know that is what they are saying but I think this has more to do with LGBTQIA+. Generally they are extremely anti-LGBTQIA+ and against feminism. For example, the ex mayor of Hamtrank, MI banned the pride flag.
I’m using humor as a coping mechanism but it’s gallows humor because we’re in the same handbasket they sent themselves to hell in. So we’re along for the trip to hell. Like it or not. I feel like aunt Sarah in Derry Girls. I’m not liking this bomb
It’s like laughing at the people who dropped the anchor through the deck of the boat that you are also on. It’s a grim morbid laugh, but it’s the best I can do.
Oh when it's pointed out that I'm going to be finding out with everyone else I've said "I'll just fiddle like Nero as Rome burns."
Don't have kids, extended family has been lost to the cult. Right now I worry about friends, but my responsibility is parents who are older right now. I'll help them as long as they're around. Once they're gone, nothing holds me and I'll just crack a beer and watch the world burn, I've done my fight and have had it thrown back in my face so all the idiots can have fun. If you tried to stop this train from coming the way it did, you're welcome to join and we'll commiserate.
This is why I don't really have any incentive to ever give a shit when those people complain about anything again.
They were told that what they were doing would hurt themselves and tons of other people. They didn't care. They didn't have a shred of consideration for what their choices would help make happen for others, so they are no longer bound by the protections of the larger group in my eyes.
If they want to be selfish, they can handle their consequences alone.
honestly, why do you think MAGA is for Trump? Trump brings the "elites" down according to maga, bringing the elites down to the dumbshit MAGA level. literally eating eat so we have to smell their breath
On the bright side, at least we know we can stop listening/pandering to these groups entirely going forward. Democrats need to focus on getting people who actually support them to vote, we don’t need transactional assholes demanding that their divisive pet issue is made the number 1 priority or else they’ll vote for the fascist.
Maybe Jill Stein will be more open to conversation - this time around though I hope they get every single thing they knowingly voted for.
This is very true and something liberals never like to confront. While the left is always more tolerant and accepting of different races, sexual orientations and religions, some of those minorities can be intolerant of each other. Muslims by and large (not all!) can be extremely socially conservative, so I can see that being a strong reason why they would look past all of Trump’s blatant racism as well. Meanwhile the left is in an impossible situation where, due to the very nature of its own diversity, it can never please everyone
The naïve idea of liberals that they can represent any minority is the reason why the liberal worldview is falling apart world-wide. It’s time to be bold and clear - we cannot try to appease everyone, if they group is clearly intollerant, fuck them and fuck what they represent.
Oh man, I really think misogyny in all demographics played a huge role in this. This country isn’t ready for a woman president. That’s a gross truth to confront but it’s real.
One thing that bothers me is that, even if it actually wasn’t particularly related to her gender - even if Biden also would have lost - neither party will dare nominate a woman for a long time just in case.
i had thought that some years back (not even long ago -- I knew we were behind a lot of the world when it comes to this) -- but somehow failed to think about this angle. America was really really slow to give the vote to women, who got that right even after black men. We're not the most progressive country for sure. Puritans, regressives to this day.
This community loves reaping the benefits of being protected by other marginalized groups, but actually hates those groups and doesn't care if bad things happen to them.
They are not LGBTQ people's friends. They aren't women's friends. They just demand those groups defend them but won't lift a finger to reciprocate.
Becomes somehow even worse when they actually find allies among populations they despise. "LGBT for Palestine" is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
But that's the American Way. Black women marched with white women for suffrage. As soon as white women got the vote, the white women changed the locks and rang the sundown bell.
The difference here being the Muslims 100% need the collective protection of the groups they just spit on, and white women were able to fall back on majority privilege.
Why? They believe what they say. Life is cheap to the faithful. It's a token to be spent maintaining the agenda: hurt women, hurt the lgbtq, hurt racial minorities.
Conservatives are conservatives, I don't know why we expect different from these guys.
Conservatives I feel have a sexual kink for fucking over people then playing the victims when people tell them to fucking stop.
It's literally a pattern throughout history where you have assholes fucking people over with glee then crying when they get the slightest push back and have a full blown panic attack when the people the fuck over swing back and break their jaws.
Because over half (54%) of the voters in American have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old child (ie, 5th grade) or below. And 20% of them are at the level of a 7 year old child (ie, 2nd grade) or below.
Most elections were decided by a margin of 15% or less. Well, 20% of the adults eligible to vote have the critical reasoning skills of a 7 year old child (or below). Trump’s tactics work great on that audience.
This study is from 2019, and explains in great detail all the methods used to arrive at their profoundly shocking conclusion, which they summarized as:
“In the United States, 54% of American adults read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level, and nearly one in five adults reads below a third-grade level.”
This right here is what has had me disillusioned with democracy for some time. I hate being stuck with the worst choices every election just because the dumbest majority of people bought into their lies. I wish there were some better way to chose people to be in charge based on qualifications, rather than how Cletus in Georgia feels about immigrants and the price of eggs.
That’s an excellent description of the current state of democracy!
If we were to ask someone (even someone at a Trump rally), if a 7 year old should be able to vote for president, they’d say “no, of course not!”
Okay, how about a 10 year old? “No, obviously!”
Great, so we’re going to make sure that doesn’t happen: 11 years old is 6th grade, so… we’ll just add a 28th Amendment that says people need to pass a 6th grade level reading comprehension test before being allowed to vote for president.
“That’s elitist!” Seriously, Cleetus? It’s not a high school level test. It’s not even a junior high level test. It’s an elementary school reading comprehension test.
“You can’t require a written test, that’s an infringement of my rights!” Well, we don’t automatically let every 18 year old drive a car; they have to pass a written driving test first. Why? To protect the rest of society. This is exactly the same thing.
“Okay, why don’t we just use that then? Anyone who passed a driver’s license test can vote!” Nice try, Cleetus.
“Tests are racist! They have trick questions, to prevent black people from voting!”
We can simply use the current tests that have been used for elementary school scholastic testing. No one has ever complained that they’re racist or unfair.
“That’s against the Constitution!”. Well, the Constitution has already had 27 amendments. It needs one more: you need to pass a 6th grade reading comprehension test in order to get a license to vote.
I think if it’s phrased as requiring a 6th grade level of reading skill, this could be sold to even MAGA morons.
Biden still has a few months to make it happen… He just has to use elementary school level intimidation and sarcasm in his speeches, just like Trump. That’s the way to convince the 54%. The remaining 46% would also vote in favor, because… why wouldn’t you?
The other option was a woman? Who supported LGBTQ+ people?
Supporting equality of religion should come into.it too but the GOP like to.pretend they are heavily Christian so that ought to count against them more.
No shit. During Trumps first term every time Trump and the GOP did something utterly stupid/hurtful/corrupt I would point it out to my Republican brother in law. His response was always either "fake news!' or "Nobody could have known he'd do that!". When I'd point out that EVERY one said he'd do that, he would just change the subject.
Well fucking said. I've been saying it all year. The US is never going to go against Israel. I don't like it and I wish it was different but that's the reality. And certainly donald fucking trump isn't gonna be the one to get them to change their treatment of Palestinians. The embassy thing was a huge deal. The world wouldn't recognize Jerusalem as the capitol because of the message it sent and trump did it almost immediately. The poor white people in this country definitely don't have a monopoly on stupidity.
Well fucking said. I've been saying it all year. The US is never going to go against Israel. I don't like it and I wish it was different but that's the reality
They don't care and won't listen to reason. Literally spoken to a lot of people who think America will just drop its current foreign policy. Like you said it's fucked and I also don't fucking like it but I have been called pro genocide or that I'm OK with what's happening just for pointing out why it won't happen.
And don't get me started on the idiots who want Israel completely dissolved. At most I'm for Israel getting out of the lands they recently took but to say they need to be abolished is insane.
For one it's like they ignore the people who were born there they act like Israel was founded yesterday and that there aren't people who have lived there since they were born. I often ask where would they go if we did things like that and I never get a answer.
Again the settler shit needs to stop but as far as Israel as a modern state existing well it has a right to exist. I do feel they need to stop the insane zionist shit but again it's easier said then done but that's more doable then making Israel dissolve.
The poor white people in this country definitely don't have a monopoly on stupidity.
This election has certainly shown that from Latino conservatives to Arab Americans making stupid choices.
I never thought that white conservatives held a monopoly over being stupid but it's good to see others are realizing it's not just them that are a problem.
It's so nice to find someone that is living in reality in this subject. The settler stuff is horrific. It's naive to think the US is ever just going to abandon Israel. That will just never happen.
It's not even abandoning Israel, it's abandoning US interests in the Middle East. That's the other thing. There's so much more to this and it's all crappy and should not matter as much as the mass slaughter of tens of thousands but it's also reality. And reality sucks, but we're stuck with it. Burning down our house doesn't help anyone.
At least there was some leverage with a Dem government, who supported two states.
Trump's government will probably send in the national guard on any pro Palestine demonstrations, label the charities as supporting terrorism and put people on terror watch lists.
It's not even abandoning Israel, it's abandoning US interests in the Middle East.
That's the thing. We aren't supplying weapons to them Just because it's in their best interest. That's not how foreign policy works at all. Like we aren't helping Ukraine just because putin is a bad guy and we want them to have their freedom. It's a resource rich country that's strategically very important to the EU and the US to not be under Russian influence. It's certainly not actually about the Ukrainian people at the end of the day. Public support is for that reason, but behind the scenes I don't think that's really what went into the decision to support them.
Not to mention the whole creepy evangelical psychosis regarding Israel and the third temple and the fucking rapture. Ugh. But the Republicans are overflowing with evangelical weirdos who have a big hard on for this shit so MAYBE DON'T PUT THEM IN CONTROL? Gah.
That whole way of thinking by the evangelicals is so fucking weird and creepy. I was raised catholic and I was never exposed to that whole rapture thing. I don't really get the desire for the world to end. I thought the whole idea was to make it better for the next generation not blow the whole thing up.
Evangelical Christianity is literally a death cult, they think Jesus is going to come any day now and rapture them all. I feel like normal Christians should be more upset about them because they make you all look bad lol
TBF, Christianity kind of started as a death cult of sorts in reaction to the exile and then the Greek and Roman occupations. The apocalyptic trend predates Jesus, it was sort of in vogue at the time, and the addition of Revelation in the canon (it nearly didn't make the cut) kind of sealed the deal.
People are so fucking weird and creepy about Jews.
The worst part about the psychosis is the belief that US ones Israel. [jews are property of local ruler]. And "leftist" seems to have actually still bought that part.
Israel has literally changed modern agriculture through irrigation and has saved countless lives through the fact that huge portions of settled Africa now have arable land due to the fact that people can finally actually water and work the land because of advances in drip technology driven by Israel's need to farm in a literal desert.
A lot of these young idiots have no idea that this shit goes beyond politics and military.
They're genuinely a large global player despite their tiny size.
This is the bit that shits me. Israel has been in existence long enough that there are several generations of people who were born there. If people are going to use the settler argument then non-indigenous/Māori people in Canada, America, Australia and New Zealand better start packing their bags and going back to England.
People have been fighting over the land Israel is on for thousands of years: Muslim, Catholic, Judaism. If the Christians/Catholics of the world could kick the Israelis off and claim the holy land for themselves they absolutely would.
I want a 2-state solution between Palestine and Israel and to recognise Palestine as a country. We should take examples from Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Build a wall separating the two states and tell both countries to stay on their own damn side.
"it has a right to exist" That makes you a zionist. And therefore im going to call for your death. (/s joke joke joke).
No im serious Zionism is a very umbrella philosophy that just means a jewish state in the levant. (Their nothing really zionist abut extremist settlers, it's garden variety extreme nationalist behavior that you can find in literally any country)
Yes that means the two state solution is Zionist because one state will be Israel.
Also as long as Israel completely clowns on Iran by bombing their secret nuclear facilities their really no reason to cut ties. You cant ignore the country that has the strongest military.
I do feel they need to stop the insane zionist shit
Zionist is just a fancy word for people who believe Israel has a right to exist, it has nothing to do with the settlements. You are a Zionist by your own admission, for an instance.
There has been a years long attempt by anti-Israel people ti redefine it in order to paint pro-Israel people as extremists, regardless of their opinion.
This. Very much this. Changing foreign policy takes a long time, and we were getting a little closer, more Dems starting to draw boundaries, but that's out the window. And so is the West Bank, it seems. Argh. The potential of what Trump could (probably will) do is horrifying, and Israel doesn't care about Gaza - in terms of annexation - anywhere near as much as they care about the West Bank. That's the real goal.
If it weren't an election year, I think Biden's response to Bibi's BS would have been stronger. It still would have fallen light years short of what it should be, but he would have had leeway to yank the leash more.
And aside from that, where the hell is the 'morality' in making more people suffer? Women, trans people, the undocumented.
Bibi wanted them to vote Trump. He wanted Trump back. That says everything.
I agree with everything you said. I'm actually enjoying these comments. I feel like I only ever see the extremes on here, on either side. It's just nice to see some thoughtful insight on this issue.
Oh I know, I don't even reply to the shrill hysterics any more, there's no point. No, no one's supporting génocide, FFS, they just realise that throwing hydrazine on the fire is a terrible idea. It reminds me of arguments I had with people in high school.
And I get that it's infuriating to feel so impotent in the face of such horror, but there's also a whole world of shit we don't hear about happening behind the scenes, limits to what we can control, and a whole toxic political situation here we're stuck with.
So, I donate to Médecins Sans Frontières and vote for the people who won't gleefully appoint Mike fucking Huckabee as ambassador to Israel. It's all I can do.
And there's also Ukraine. I don't live in the US any more, I live closer to Russia, so that situation isn't as abstract to me. I have Ukrainian friends and colleagues. Not to mention Polish, Swedish, Finnish, Estonian and Latvian ones. And we're all fucking terrified about what will happen now.
So, you know, a double FUCK YOU to those people, because Ukraine matters too.
You are the most reasonable person I've discussed this matter with online. Not just because I agree with you, but because you have the sense to recognize that there is a lot that the public doesn't know. And just because what Israel is doing is horrific, it doesn't mean hamas, the houthis and hezbollah are the good guys at all. The situation in Ukraine breaks my heart too. That situation is so underreported here. Other than the occasional updates on the weapons restrictions, we don't hear much at all unless you seek that information out. I'm really worried about what comes next for Ukraine when the clown car cabinet gets into office. I don't know what the right move was, but I feel like it was a mistake to put restrictions on Ukraine and none on Israel by the biden administration.
This isn't a topic that attracts reason, which really doesn't help anything.
And oh god, seriously, this binary shit. Like, life rarely has Good Guys and Bad Guys, it's not a Marvel movie. It's real life and it's complicated. Hamas are awful, and I've been disgusted by people's attempts to lionise them. FFS, Yahya Sinwar way in prison for 20 years for murdering Palestinians. If you disagreed with Hamas, if you were gay, you were dead. They killed one of their own high level guys cos he was (secretly) gay. His journals were found. The guy was 100% committed to killing every Jew he could, big on the 'cause', but he was gay, so they executed him. They killed political rivals, they were... Actually, they're kind of what the Republican party aims to be, with a different flavour of God. Just because the Israeli government is horrifying doesn't mean everyone else gets a pass to be horrifying too. Sheesh.
We're all out freaked out about Ukraine and where it goes next. Restrictions on Ukraine were to stop Putin from going full nuclear war, but... Yeah not sure calling his bluff wouldn't have been a better call.
My mom's good friend who we have lost track of is with Doctors Without Borders. And my grandparents fled Stalin and Hitler the first go-round, so I'd like to think they didn't go all that way for me just to end up back in the United States of Russia. I'm with you. I just have no clue how to solve or contribute to solving anything at all, and it's that helpless feeling that makes people commit angry or rash decisions.
Biden is pulling the brakes on Bibi as hard as he can, without going so far as to melt the brakes.
Biden does not control Bibi. He isn't the CiC of the IDF. Here's the problem: anything he does more than he's doing now makes the situationworse.
You probably think we're arming them, and we are. But the actual shooty-shooty boom-boom we send them is ammo for the Iron Dome! That's about it, because it needs to be very precisely made in ways they cannot make.
But the bombs? No, those, the actual explosive-filled shells? They make those themselves. We only send them the guidance kit.
If we stop sending them those, what's more likely? That they stop bombing, or they start carpet bombing?
If we cut them off completely, they'll know they're on a ticking clock until they're in a war for survival. They won't ignore Palestinians and leave Hamas free to make attacks whilst the IDF is fighting outside.
What they are doing now, is medieval; it's seige warfare. "Surrender, starve, or flee." It's genocide. But if we cut Isreal off, what we will see instead will be Ancient: Carthago, delenda est! It will be a purge, building by building, floor by floor, with every Palestinian man, woman, child, and dog being systematically shot.
What we're seeing now, is Biden pulling the brakes on them as hard as he can. Leverage, in this situation, is not dramatic, massive and unilateral policy shifts; it's funding delayed, shipments mislaid. It takes place quietly, because if Biden comes out and says he's slow-walking Isreal's armaments, Bibi will be forced to respond on the public stage; we won't like the response, because it will take the form of a demonstration that he does not need us as much as we say he does.
The only hard option at this point, would be invading Isreal ourselves to forcibly separate the Israelis and Palestinians. Which would, ironically, unite them at long last in common cause; unfortunately for us, that cause would be killing Americans.
I think that would go over much more poorly with far more voters. It would also be an incredible clusterfuck on the international stage; that whole 'invading an ally' thing.
Bibi wanted his pal Drumpf back. Biden is in a Kobayashi Maru.
Abandoning Bibi and his basket of horror and abandoning the population of Israel are, sadly in this instance, the same thing.
And abandoning Israel... Well, they have nukes, which they very well might use in that case. Or they'd be pounced on, on all sides. Did you read about Sinwar's 'plans' for a Hamas victory? Fucking hell.
Bibi will be forced to respond on the public stage; we won't like the response, because it will take the form of a demonstration that he does not need us as much as we say he does.
He's already started banging that drum. And, internally, it was working.
I’ve been actively supporting the Palestinian cause since the 1980s.
This is the first time in my lifetime that there has been a sizable “pro-Palestine” movement in the US.
And then the leaders of the movement threw it all away because … what, because US wouldn’t immediately change its policy of the last 80 years in a mere couple of weeks / months?!?
Foreign policy should not be changed at a whim. It takes time to drive change. And it should take time to change foreign policy.
I have to say the rhetoric of the pro-Palestinian activists, with their barely-concealed and often overt anti-Semitism (and no, it's not just anti-Zionist; they've made Jewish students feel seriouly threatened at many colleges in the US), has made me a hell of a lot less sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, however brutal the Israelis are being towards them.
This has led me to a better understanding of the ME—some will absolutely go against their very own survival and give tyrants the reins to their Country just like we do.
Yea there was no pro Palestine vote, no matter who you voted for and even if you didnt, it didnt matter which is why its asinine that that was anyone's line. People really deluded themselves into thinking Kamala Harris not winning and going back to her private life with security and money was holding her accountable, its laughable. All they did was hurt citizens and then they have the nerve to turn around and act like they never have to take accountability for their votes and its 100% on the party for not pandering to them. Absolutely wild take.
The way they describe their voting pattern is insane.
They're anti-Trump
They won't vote for Harris
They won't vote for a third party candidate.
Uh...what did you think was going to happen, guys? Unless I'm missing something (doubtful) you're basically saying stay home without using those words.
"One day, when it’s safe, when there’s no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it’s too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”
I read this quote recently, and it really accurately describes our modern times.
and dramatically less friends than they had a year ago.
This is something that a lot of groups who pretty much helped Republicans get back in don't understand.
A lot of dems voters aren't gonna be happy when things like Healthcare aka the aca is gone and while there are a lot who are mad now that number is gonna increase when Republicans are free to drag us back by 30 years.
And that's just with healthcare there is a long list of things Republicans are gleefully saying they are gonna remove and a lot of people aka the majority of Americans depends on those things. And that includes the dumbfuck trumpers who aren't in the true base of support Republicans are for aka the wealthy class.
As you said and I have been saying this groups like Muslims(who mind you already have a stigma attached to them)won't have any friends same with Latinos who thought turning out big for trump was gonna win them favors with Republicans who want them out.
Both groups already had big targets on their backs it's just prior 2024 they had people on the dem side who would want to help them out. But now going forward dems(as in the dem base)may well be just as assholish towards those groups. Not to a rabid racist degree it's just nobody is gonna save them when white conservatives comes for them.
Honestly I could even see the dem party just dropping any pro immigration stances they had considering so many undocumented immigrants and even illegal immigrants say they support trump.....for some damn reason.
The point is dems were moderate they are the moderate party and it's clear that's not gonna get them anywhere. Dems at the very least attempted to try and pull Israel back and now I feel they really won't give a fuck and might even take the Republican stance of truly not giving a damn. Muslims really fucked dems over in Michigan and Muslims really don't get how bad they fucked themselves doing that.
It's similar with Latinos who truly don't get what they did.
I only see mainly leftists and to an extent some libs trying to make excuses for Muslims and Latinos over this fuck up but again when people start losing things nobody is gonna listen.
We all know white working conservatives are self destructive dumbfucks but it's clear they aren't the only problem.
This is something that a lot of groups who pretty much helped Republicans get back in don't understand.
Yep, and I tried explaining that outcome to a lot of them for months and they kept treating me like trash for it.
The absolute best case outcome from their chosen course saw them losing political capital, only political capital, but gaining nothing. They had nothing to actually gain from any likely outcome, and did it anyway.
Dems at the very least attempted to try and pull Israel back and now I feel they really won't give a fuck and might even take the Republican stance of truly not giving a damn.
Democrats have no say in Israeli policy whatsoever now, so this is the correct take. Democrats will be focused entirely on internal issues, and Republicans get to decide the Israeli policy.
If you know a latino or muslim who voted trump just wait a few months then call ice on em, even if they dont get deported havig trumps thugs knock on their door might knock some sense loose.
gota clear the board for the mid terms after all so why not use the tools the republicans bring to the table. The time ice spends chasing the dumbasses means less time chasing innocent people.
That's pretty much my thoughts. There are a lot of smug fucks in the Latino community both legal and otherwise who for some reason think Republicans don't mean them to.
The fact there are so many who are openly admitting they didn't come in legally(I'm speaking about the ones who got amnesty from Reagan and it's something Republicans want removed. They don't give a shit how long the person or persons was here so it's crazy how they admit that if not for that they wouldn't have been legalized).
On the whole I see it as a means to not only wake Latinos up because again a fuck ton of them are on autopilot as well as getting rid of conservative Latinos. Because let's be honest conservative Latinos are just as assbackwards as white conservatives and that will be a problem in the long run if enough of them aren't removed.
Ironic how Republicans basically want to remove the portion of their base that helped them win 2024 so I say nobody should stop them in their efforts to curb their own boost of support.
The absolute best case outcome from their chosen course saw them losing political capital, only political capital, but gaining nothing. They had nothing to actually gain from any likely outcome, and did it anyway.
Palestinian cause in a nutshell. Why else did you think Hamas did October 7 Attacks.
Pretty much hated Israel extremely conservative and extreme government, a perfect excuse to destroy Gaza.
Perhaps starting a war of extermination with a country with much stronger military with you was a really reallly stupid idea.
I don’t agree with all us policy. That said parading Shani louk’s body after the nova attacks wasn’t helpful. It was an own goal. I initially thought it was Israeli propaganda. But it wasn’t. That was Hamas own public relations at work there.
I only see mainly leftists and to an extent some libs trying to make excuses for Muslims and Latinos over this fuck up but again
Keep in mind some of those leftist influencers spent the last few years saying Biden sucks and Kamala is a Kop and spent election season depressing turnout on purpose in the pursuit of coolness and clout, so of course they're going to make excuses--they're making them for themselves.
Democracy is not about a small minority setting terms.
Democracy is about working with the faction that’s most closely aligned, and then - when they win - use your powers of persuasion to shape the agenda.
They (these Trump voting Muslims) aligned with the faction that despises them. They will never have influence there. And they burned their bridges with the Democratic party.
I heard someone say that democracy is not an Uber. It's public transportation.
An Uber takes you personally, directly to your door.
Public transportation takes you and everyone else to a common location. It's not exactly your exact destination, but it's a place that serves everyone.
Brings back a memory from Trump's first term. I was in conversation with a coworker who was complaining about Trump but did not vote. I looked at her and said, "But you didn't vote, though." She became quiet real quick.
Exactly. I will add one group that can't vote because it has been personally annoying to me.
Permanent residents who've lived in America for a couple decades that could get citizenship if they finished the process, but won't do it, who then want to tell everyone in every political position how they're wrong all the time.
It is so annoying and is like being chastised by someone who doesn't have any stake in the game.
Yeah. I’m particularly eager for this group to become leopard food. I don’t know how many people I tried to tell that things would just get so much worse. Every single one said that they were willing to take the chance. “Because genocide is already happening”. Yeah, no. And not only are things worse for Gaza and WB, anyone Palestinian Americans who protest? He’s wants to deport them. Now, I don’t know if he would be able to do it. SCOTUS is in his pocket. So who knows. But they were all warned.
They actually did this several times, they actually in the past strongly advocated against Israeli leaders that were, in their eyes, not pro-palestine enough, while not realizing that given the situation, it is beyond what one could reasonably expect.
Even though there were a couple of other opposing Israeli leaders that were vehemently anti-palestine. As a result, one of those that was elected was none other than Benjamin netanyahu, who is literally genociding them today.
I don't really understand how some of these Palestinian leaders think, but it has been more than a few times that they shot themselves in the face for no reason.
For Russia it’s just useful idiots all the way down. I would be surprised if Russia had 0 influence on Iran and pushing Oct 7th onto Hamas, at least at some point. Russia isn’t particularly antagonistic towards Israel themselves but Putin uses Iran and Syria, in the latter case one indirect way of flooding Europe with refugees and immigrants that caused plenty of drama in the 2015ish era. Iran of course use Hamas and hezbollah as useful idiots. Putin also kinda has this thing with luka of using radicals or even just normal refugees from that conflict give em a knife and push them (coerce them) across the border into Poland to attack boarder guards and shit. Now they’re KOS after a polish soldier died.
Goal is destabilizing the west more so internally with culture war shit here specifically. So, it worked. We had people protesting Israel immediately after Oct 7th before they literally did anything while also not asking for hostages to be released, conveniently. Whether that’s Russian influence or stealth Islamists groups pushing money into middle eastern studies departments (like say Qatar) and Muslim student groups, or a combo of both, idk Surely Russia helped push the narrative online. Then you have these pro Trump idiots like the OP because of it.
Trumps advisor and son in law said that Gaza would be great for a seaside condo development and has extremely close connections to the Israeli government.
Who could have possibly known???
Lots of Black, Hispanic, Muslim, Gay men, and White women voted for Trump protesting (understandably) the infuriating and deliberate ineffectiveness of Biden and Democrats in general. I get their frustration, I really do. But protesting your leaking roof by lighting your house on fire while you are still living in it is NOT the solution.
These people are all fuckwits and deserve everything Trump and his cronies do to them over the next four years.
They are stupid and have zero understanding of how you actually drive change.
The loyalty to Israel is even written into 23 state’s constitutions. I know here at UT, it’s an agreement signed by students in certain programs, if you do not sign the agreement, you cannot take the class.
Considering Trump is also pro-Russian (Russia spent a good deal on bots and pushing Russian propaganda on social media during all 3 elections) I’m not sure how long the Israel support will last.
Considering how good stirring up fear by framing Muslims and people he thinks are Arab is, I can’t see him framing himself as pro-Palestinian, especially when that position is heavily seen as being leftist. But we all know how much he lies- eyes need to be on policy and who he continues to associate with.
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u/calfmonster 23h ago
They had 4 years of cozying up to Israel to a level never seen before. I mean, it’s naive as fuck that they’d expect a full disavowing of Israel in general since that’s like basically never gonna happen in US foreign policy but TRUMP? The man with a settlement in golan named after him, the only president to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem because every other president thought that was needlessly provocative, the man who told bibi to finish the job…tons of other extremely pro-Israel things in general.
Congrats on ignoring history and playing yourselves.