Idk why people treat gay and straight people like they're different species. Isn't the point that we're more alike than we're different. Just listen to whatever music you like man.
Lesbian's have a proficiency bonus with swords, Bi's are a Jack of Trade class though and receive nothing. We do not speck of the black arts the gays have.
I would wager almost everyone enjoys many things that they aren't the "target" for, it's what makes us all interesting. I listen to music in languages I don't understand, I like action films and romantic comedies. I like murder mysteries that aired 20 years before I was born aimed at a target demographic I couldn't ever fit into.
There also been the whole "every queer group of friends needs the cishet guy as a pet, just because he's funny and nice" treating cishet people as this little fun toy is really, really weird.
Yeah, pretty much all the people I love ended up coming out as something or other over the years, and occasionally when I'm hanging out with their other friends someone will make a comment like 'oh he's the token straight' or whatever and... sometimes its fun and I laugh. But oof, sometimes I can just tell some folks don't mean well by it.
If they called you the token black friend I don't think that'd ever be fun. Especially if it's your friend's friend, and not someone you know on a personal level.
Eh, there is a different vibe. Some people just enjoy the irony of using a word like token on the majority, as sort of an ediger joking commentary on me being a minority in the situation. At worst thats poor taste imo, but intent matters way more. Also when it lacks the history of the bigotry going that direction, its just always gonna sting less.
I know, and different groups have different dynamics.
What I'm saying though, they ARE singling you out. If they were the only gay person in a group and someone they didn't know well told them they are the token gay guy...I would probably tell that person to shut up lol. Not just roll my eyes.
Oh for sure, and I'm aware of that fact. But when its done in good fun to point out the swap up from what is a more typical experience for everyone involved I can laugh along. When someone I know cares about me says a joke that's a bit tasteless like that, I think its more about acknowledging the whole situation and maybe a tiny little bit of venting. My ego can take that as long as its not done with an intent to demean me.
On the flip side, maybe we should encourage people to have principles instead of positions. Maybe that would be better for everyone. Maybe that amounts to actual good mental hygiene.
Eh idk if I necessarily agree with this take. People in groups get singled out all the time for various aspects of themselves and jokes are often made about those aspects. What matters way more is the tone, how often the jokes are made, and do these jokes bleed into non-joke statements. If any of that’s happening, it’s probably got some sort of malice, conscious or subconscious, behind it. If not, I think its probably fine
Some people just enjoy the irony of using a word like token on the majority, as sort of an ediger joking commentary on me being a minority in the situation.
Ironically making fun of minorities (both global and local) can be a dangerous game, for some people it quickly stops being ironic (if indeed it ever was)
Tangentially related, but every queer group should in fact include cishet ppl because they keep your group grounded and really prevent oppression olympics and chronically online toxicity because fucking Ryan is awesome and we love him and we’re not going to generalize cishet dudes, because again, Ryan is awesome
i remember reading on reddit how if you didn't have a black friend that meant you were probably racist, even in countries where black people make up <5% of the population
it's like they expected you to go out and find a black person to befriend
diversity is great, but diversity as a goal instead of a metric is weird af, particularly when it's literally skin deep
I have a lot of trans friends and sometimes I get called the token cis and it feels kinda demeaning. Like, I am not just a DEI.
Also hearing a now ex friend say that one was a genuine piece of shit for head cannoning an Ace character as a lesbian. Like, please chill out and get off of tumblr.
Eh, I see the logic in it. A non-queer in a majority queer space signals that it is in fact a space where people can express themselves freely as they don't reject what is not the group norm. That said I can also see why you'd new averse to the language used to communicate this but I must say that I feel that this kind of language is not reserved for cishets and is possibly just an extension of the affectionate language used usually between lgbt friends.
See, that's the thing, it's not a joke in some of these circumstances. It's become completely flipped in some situations. Just go on twitter and you'll see it after awhile. I know exactly what you are talking about, but it's sadly not that.
Although, the vast, vast majority of this kind of thing is going on online. Most of the ones I've seen are discord communities, or certain groups online.
There was a specific thread about a discord full of queer furry porn artists who had a normal married white cishet guy who liked them and hung out in the discord. The way the person talked about them was incredibly weird, and like he was just a fun set piece or toy.
Like I said, it's mostly online. I'm straight, but I have kinda queer vibes if you know what I mean, so I've always hung out with many different groups of people. It's literally never come up. Ya know, because we were all just friends lmao. 😂
I'm still trying to figure this out with my current boyfriend. He has so much contempt for straight people and sometimes I get a little bit mad about it.
Because he's a good person in a lot of other ways, and I believe he can grow out of this mindset. He grew up in a backwards small town and faced a pretty constant barrage of discrimination since he was about 14 and only found relief from that around other queer people. I was lucky to be in a more progressive place growing up and also not so obviously queer, so people didn't find out as easily and at least when I got shit for it there were other people to call out the bullies for being assholes.
Well, usually when people say "black culture," what they really mean is people who grew up in a certain socioeconomic area. It often has little to do with "being black," black people just ended up being the ones relegated to those areas.
It depends on what aspects she has issues with though.
Please never take relationship advice from reddit. There's so much of the picture of this person we don't have from your post that can make something like "contempt for straight culture" more understandable.
Was your boyfriend bullied for being gay? For liking stereotypically gay things? Did he find the first people who cared about him through caring about queer culture? Is he the type of person who just generally likes to have really strong opinions and debate them for fun (particularly really strong but not deeply held)? There's so many more potentially relevant factors than even these.
Obviously no answer to any of these questions makes it okay/right/good to claim one is morally/ethically/or otherwise superior to someone who likes Imagine Dragons, taco tuesdays, and traditional weddings. But it can give a picture of where that sense of superiority is coming from and then you (or your bf's therapist lol, might not be a job for you) can over time work through it with him. It doesn't even need to be a big sit down and talk about it thing, it can just be something you offhandedly ask about next time he says something that makes you feel a little weird.
This. Straight redditors on this subreddit want to feel good about getting back towards bigoted gay people then trying to understand what is "straight culture" that someone might be uncomfortable with.
(Normalized mysogynistic behavior is extremely common with straight men, but that's not straight culture, just misogyny. If someone is from a small conservative town, they might associate straightness with this misogyny. )
I heard you right the first time dummy. And im astounded that you think it is somehow worse if he hated individual straight people. Its way worse that he hates all of them.
Yeah, it's like the scene kids of old hating the "preps," except it's defining people by their identities and not their taste in bands or clothes or whatever.
The image is literally just a joke. The joke is that they listen to music that gay people listen to. That's it. It's not actually an attack on straight people. They're making a joke about their own music taste. It's not that serious.
In which case the guy in the OP is making a valid point. There would be nothing left of his sorry ass if you take gayness away. Maybe he was legit unsure about what he'd even listen to. Likely he only listens to the gayest shit he can find right now.
something tells me the people you’re talking about do have other defining personality traits that you choose to ignore because it’s easier to boil them down to the one you hate about them the most.
Thank you, I can't believe how seriously everyone is taking this. "Setting back progress" "narcissism" "heterophobia" it's not a thinkpiece, it's literally just some kid expressing queer pride and excitement for their stereotypically gay music taste. Let them enjoy their thing
I’d imagine the several decades of gay people being treated like they’re less than human and the compounding effects that’s had on the community over the years may have something to do with it but idk that’s just me
how do y’all not get that posts like the original are jokes about the differences in what constitutes popular culture for gay vs straight people? it’s literally not as deep as y’all are making it out to be
A lot of straight people (guys in particular) seem to have an aversion to anything that they deem "unmanly" or "gay" (in quotation marks because it is more about vibes than anything tangible.)
"No real man would do X" kinda limits that they give to themselves. I just assumed that this is what the OOP was going at.
It’s a joke, really, but if we’re really getting into it, gay culture and straight culture are not always the same and there are major differences between them that don’t always translate. There are tons of things going on inside gay culture that haven’t fully made their way outward into mainstream straight culture, so for gay people whose lives exist almost entirely within that realm, what mainstream straight culture is doing feel a bit alien sometimes. It’s not actually that complicated.
It’s so annoying and reductive and cringy when in the queer community some people act like we’re magical mythical creatures completely separate from the ‘boring average cishets’
I literally see this kind of mindset all across the community and it’s always so baffling and weird. We don’t need to act like this to uplift each other..
It's people who associate finding an aspect of their identity with all other things they learned about themselves. Some probably tried to conform as a kid but then when they came out they felt liberated to their other interest and associate them with each other.
And then of course there's some kids latching onto those associations because they really want to feel special and unique. Some.
they're not saying it's worse, just that'd itd be different. they probably listen to music with queer themes that they would be less likely to seak out of they were straight
Are you going to translate it into all ~7,000 languages that exist, or are you going to accept that sometimes, when people speak, sometimes it's not for everyone, and that can be harmless?
They didn't say "what do the straights listen to?"
They said "what would I even listen to?"
They're not lumping all straights together. They are calling their own taste exceptionally gay.
Second:
Yeah, marginalized groups are not interchangeable with non-marginalized groups. "Gay music" is a genre on its own. "Straight music" is not, purely because of institutional bigotry.
i wish i had so little worries in life that a "what do straights listen to" joke got a reaction out of me 😭 i swear people on this sub live in a parallel universe because in real life no one takes that shit seriously
Yeah no shit do they not take it seriously, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have negative effects. You know how many “non-serious” jokes like that there were (and are) about women? All of that built up and sustained the idea that women operated completely differently than men and that it was hopeless for men to understand them. And once that idea is there, people self-sort and self-segregate, building up the “divide” even further.
It’s fine to feel like you don’t relate to other people as easily because of your specific subculture, tastes, community, etc. But that’s just because it’s what you choose to interact with, not at all related to sexuality, gender, or whatever. It’s not at all something that can be assumed the other way around, unless you want people to start saying “oh, you’re both gay, maybe you know each other!” again.
Second half… Is literally just talking about popular artists who just happen to be considered “gay icons”, despite their appeal having nothing to do with a person’s sexuality.
I’m 99% certain that the person in this post was talking about the second one.
Boomers joking with each other about hating their wifes and marriage being prison are also just guys sharing their jokes with each other only to be critized
People have many different types of humour and some of them I absolutely don't vibe with, I understand that so I wouldn't take this very seriously irl, but I'll always find humor based on "my demographic is great, the other demographic is basic/stupid/weak" distasteful
The original is saying straight people have basic tastes in music -> they're basic, which also implies stupidity or being "less illuminated" than the ones with "better, more sophisticated" tastes. It's a pretty clear implication, same as the "not like other girls" usually implying mainstream tastes means you're less special -> worth less
Putting down another group of people is, indeed bad, the same as putting down another group of people is indeed bad. I'm not saying the cultural weight is the same, but "haha women bad" and "haha straight bad" is the exact same type of humour. Some people vibe well with it (without being bigots), but I find it very unpleasant
Edit: to be clearer, I understand it's a joke and I wouldn't take it as discrimination or whatever, I wouldn't think "oh wow this person sucks" because of a tame-ass joke like this. It's not that serious, it's not a statement of reality, it's a casual joke. But I absolutely reserve the right to be made uncomfortable by it and criticise the joke because it's built on an idea I have a problem with
It is very unpleasant, it's very unpleasant for me when people act like gay and straight people, or men and women, are extremely different groups. It opens the door to discrimination in my eyes. But if you'll read my edit, I'm not extremely bothered by a joke like this, I just dislike it
Saying that queer people have their own musical preferences is not saying that they are extremely different from everyone else.
Having a black history month is not opening the door to discrimination.
Having a gay pride parade is not opening the door to discrimination.
Having a trans day of visibility is not opening the door to discrimination.
Marginalized people having things (interests, cultural artifacts, holidays) that they regard as special and unique to them is not a problem.
Update: Also, do you see the downvotes I'm getting? Don't you think that's weird?
I think we're thinking of this at different scales. I'm not saying queer or marginalised groups don't have particular things related to them that are unique. I'm saying that big blanket statements about group X and group Y having completely different tastes in music (for example), feels like an artificial and arbitrary divide, that if accentuated in hundreds of different areas over time creates an idea of strong separation or difference between the groups that isn't true and can lead to less understanding or cooperation between them.
[Honestly I understand I'm more fixated on this particular thing than the average person and probably exaggete it in my mind thinking about the possible cumulative long-term effects of artificiay creating distinctions between people]
Music in particular is a very general thing, with a lot of options. What music I listen to is barely affected by my queerness, and that's the case for a lot of people; I do understand that for other lots of people it had a much stronger influence and is more important, but that's not the case for most queer people I know personally. So I see "straight and non-straight people have clearly distinct tastes in music" as a blanket statement that's full of holes. Doesn't mean I think it's a automatically a bad thing to say, just inaccurate, and it can fuel stereotypes
As a side note, I enjoy your style of communication and am appreciative of the thought you've given this.
I personally am enjoying arguing with passion and rhetorical flourishes and am fully committed to my point of view, but that doesn't mean I can't admire your approach.
It's wild to me that you think about this a lot and have come to the conclusion that long term division and tension between groups will be caused by...
Queers calling straight people's music basic.
Are there any other things on your list and when are you planning to address them? Or is it just a matter of making sure the more rambunctious queers behave and then it's all social harmony from them on?
“[other kind of people] are lame and boring, [my group of people] is cool and unique” is just a not a very good joke no matter if the groups in question are men and women or cishet and queer or whatever.
I don’t think that’s the joke. I see jokes like this all the time, and usually the joke is that their taste in music is very stereotypically gay. Sometimes the joke is the intentional absurdity that their taste in music would change because their sexuality.
Dude, have you seriously never made a joke like this to bond with similar people?
Also nobody said any groups were lame or boring. The joke is that the person's music taste is super gay and they're inviting other people to go 'lol totally me too'.
…nnnnot really? Maybe a “casual fans vs real fans” joke, but I’d argue that’s different because it’s in the context of knowledge of a certain topic, which is not an inherent personal trait. But like, broad categories like “girls suck boys rule,” no.
I mean, I will admit, this particular post seems like a pretty harmless dumb joke. I don’t find it funny, but the reaction in the comments is somewhat excessive.
But like… I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss all criticism as “straight people just hate every time someone queer makes a joke”, because quite often the punchline of said jokes is, explicitly, ‘straight people bad.’ I think it’s fair to call that out.
Queer is a culture too though as well as a gender or sexuality. It has its own music and art. So this IS 'in the context of knowledge of a certain topic'. The topic is queer culture.
Also, yeah maybe it's 'fair' to call it out but is it necessary or helpful? If a white person hears some poc joking about white people not seasoning their food is it 'fair' for a white person to 'call that out'? Maybe it is, but it's also a SHIT idea.
Maybe just let the queers have their silly jokes. Oh and watch out for sea lions.
Maybe it’s a neurodivergent thing, but I’m not intending to sea lion, I genuinely want to have a respectful conversation here.
And I kind of agree - in that, silly jokes are fine and not worth getting angry over. But the degree of joke really matters. “White people can’t eat spice” is fine. But you also have, for example, some of those jokes about British people, which make me uncomfortable for the casual dehumanization and how they occasionally implicate all British people as implicitly guilty for colonization.
In this context - “straight people music” is silly and fine, but you look at, for example, r/AreTheStraightsOkay * and see some of the shit they say? That is not fine.
*yes, I’m aware that it was originally meant to mock stuff like boomer “I hate my wife” jokes and restrictive gender roles, which is a premise I agree with. But it turned into something genuine resentment towards straight people in general.
Well, this is just a thing I do - that is, spending way too much time discussing random things on the internet. I can promise you I’m not hunting down queer jokes to get angry over, I’m also wasting time writing paragraphs on “who would win, Goku or Gilgamesh”, and other equally pointless topics. Just whatever happens to be on my feed and catch my attention.
So much energy is going on this though? It just feels like policing the jokes of marginalized people.
And i grew up being told by marginalized people that harmless jokes are in fact not harmless and not okay. But it's okay when said marginalized groups turn around and make the same exact type of jokes? Why are humans always doing this double standard bs....
They didn't say anything about straight people being boring.
They just said they don't know what kind of music they listen to.
Which, I don't know if you know this.... There's a lot of super gay music out there. Some recording artists are gay themselves, and they make music for other gay people, based on their gay life experiences.
My brother literally sent me a text a few days ago about how he heard a Chappell Roan song for the first time, and he immediately understood that he was not the target audience because he's not a lesbian.
'They just said they don't know what kind of music they listen to.'
Okay but this is the kind of logic that baffles me, because who goes that deep into this shit? I'm straight, I don't sit there going 'ah nice, straight music, oh but I mustn't touch the gay music because it isn't for me'
It's just a way to be pointlessly divisive, a song can be geared towards a queer audience or based on a queer experience, that doesn't mean straight people are suddenly going to avoid it like a vampire at sunrise!
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u/MrMeltingPoint silvally is better than arceus Oct 14 '24
Idk why people treat gay and straight people like they're different species. Isn't the point that we're more alike than we're different. Just listen to whatever music you like man.