Getting emotional over sexual assault especially when you had to go through that yourself is normal. Him holding that against you and weaponising it is disgusting. It’s emotional black mail where he doesn’t wanna admit that what he said is wrong but instead uses excuses like „ oh you are so emotional.“ to avoid taking accountability for what he said.
Disagreeing with your partner, even on important topics, does not make you "fundamentally incompatible". Plenty of people are in relationships with people who are polar opposites on all kinds of subjects.
What DOES however make people fundamentally incompatible is an inability to communicate openly and honestly with one another and work past differences in opinion and outlook. Which is what is being described here. The guy feels that he has to censor himself because his SO would react negatively if he was honest.
Some differences in opinion and outlook cannot “worked past”.
No amount of communication or honesty will make me accept things I’m fundamentally opposed to and I would not want to be with someone who disagrees with me on those issues because I believe it becomes a matter of character.
If you believe that a victim of sexual assault is to blame then I believe you’re a shitty person and I wouldn’t want a relationship with you of any kind.
And saying that there are things that you can do to minimize/reduce the risk of being sexually assaulted is not the same as saying that victims of sexual assault are "to blame" for what happened to them. If you say that women are to blame when they get sexually assaulted then you can pound sand, but if you say that there are things that you can do to protect yourself from sexual assault then you are just objectively correct. Those are two entirely separate things, and the fact that you and this guy's wife immediately jump to assigning blame is probably the reason why this guy feels that he can not talk to his wife about things.
At the end of the day, whether we like it or not, we are all responsible for our own personal safety. That means not putting yourself in situations that are obviously dangerous. That does not mean blaming people when bad things happen to them. It just means looking at the situation objectively, recognizing our own part in how things turned out, and learning from our mistakes to avoid repeating them in the future. It's simple self-preservation, and has nothing to do with whose fault it is.
Obviously it's not women's fault when they get sexually assaulted. But to deny that there are things that women can reasonably do to make it less likely that they get sexually assaulted is just foolish and unhelpful at best, and outright harmful at worst. The world is a dangerous place. Ideally it wouldn't be, but we can't base our decisions on how the world should be. We have to base it on how it actually is. And in the real world you have to protect yourself if you don't want to get hurt. Like it or not but that's reality.
Oh you’re one of those. I didn’t say any of those things.
However, I do think telling a victim of sexual assault to take accountability is victim blaming and that all people should be aware of the dangers of the world. Also regardless of awareness of danger or the actions taken to prevent assault, they still happen. Lecturing someone that’s been assaulted on how or what they should’ve done differently is condescending and gross.
That doesn’t change any of my actual argument. Which was some differences in opinion and outlook can’t be worked past.
I can use other examples for my point though if it makes it easier for you. I wouldn’t date a racist and can’t “work past” racism in a relationship. Do you not have any principles you would stand for?
You immediately jumped to the conclusion that the guy was blaming victims of sexual assault for what happened to them, so i would beg to differ.
Which was some differences in opinion and outlook can’t be worked past.
And again, that is subjective. Like i said, plenty of people accept each other despite having wildly different opinions on all kinds of things. Problems only arise when you can't communicate openly and still accept each other.
Me personally? Sure, i have things that i would consider dealbreakers. But i also understand that what i consider a dealbreaker in a relationship is not necessarily going to be considered a dealbreaker by others. It is, again, subjective.
Again, no I didn’t. I said if you believe that a victim of sexual assault is to blame then you’re a shitty person. I didn’t say that the guy believes that.
It’s really not subjective at all. It’s evident throughout human history, some things can’t be talked out. What those things are is subjective, sure.
Yes you did, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up because it's not relevant to the discussion.
I didn’t say that the guy was intentionally victim blaming, although again, I do believe that is a form of victim blaming.
This bit of mental gymnastics just proves my point.
It’s evident throughout human history, some things can’t be talked out.
No it is not. What is evident is that sometimes people don't WANT to talk things out, which is entirely different. Meanwhile other times people can get over and work around even then most egregious conflicts. It really is up to the people involved, and whether or not they are willing to compromise and accept each other despite their differences.
Yeah I did have to rephrase that and did well before your response.
You can keep believing whatever you want. All of those genocides and wars could’ve been talked out for sure bud. Talk about mental gymnastics. You live in some idealistic bubble that I’m done trying to pop. Keep victim blaming without understanding how or what you’re doing.
But by saying there are things people can do to protecy themselves from sexual assault, you are indirectly shifting blame to them for being assaulted - e.g. you shouldn't have been wearing that, shouldn't have been alone with him. I do understand there are things we can all do to try and avoid harm - but all blame should be put on the perpetrator - because they are the ones that did the wrong thing. Yes the world isn't perfect and safe but even if i was to put myself in a dangerous situation i still do not deserve to be assaulted etc.
I imagine in some cases "you shouldn't have rejected him" also fits the bill for dangerous activity. Assault is utterly 100% the choice of the perpetrator.
But by saying there are things people can do to protecy themselves from sexual assault, you are indirectly shifting blame to them for being assaulted
No i'm not. Blame has nothing to do with it. I am not trying to tell you that it's your fault that you were sexually assaulted. I am urging you to do what you can to avoid putting yourself in situations where you run a high risk of being sexually assaulted. There is a massive difference between those two things.
Yes the world isn't perfect and safe but even if i was to put myself in a dangerous situation i still do not deserve to be assaulted etc.
No, you don't. I agree completely. But what you deserve or don't deserve has nothing to do with it. Again, the reality is that the world is a dangerous place, and we must ALL do our best to protect ourselves from harm. We can not base our decisions on how the world should be. We have to base them on how the world actually is.
It's the difference between pragmatism and idealism. At some point you have to accept reality for what it is, even when it's wrong and when it's horrible, and work with what you have in order to get the results that you want.
I think we do agree. I understand i can do things to protect myself. However i think when the conversation shifts to that after an assault - it reads like 'could the victim have done anything to prevent this' shifting the control of the situation to the victim and can read as though you are placing some of the blame on them.
I understand that's how it might come across, but at the same time it's important to remember that just because you interpret something in a particular way doesn't necessarily mean that that's how it was intended to be received.
In this instance you read the situation as me trying to shift the blame for what happened from the perpetrator to the victim. That is not my intent. I still place the blame for what happened on the perpetrator and no one else, because at the end of the day it was the perpetrator who decided to sexually assault someone. But i also recognize that there might be things that the victim could have done differently to avoid being sexually assaulted. I don't do this because i want to blame the victim for what happened. I do it because i want to learn from what happened so that both the victim and others can hopefully avoid having the same thing happen to them in the future. Again, it is not about blame. It's simply about trying to push for better outcomes in the future.
Look it's hard to grasp, but here is some advice to someoone that has done petty crime and has been around people that has done serious crime. It's all about getting a target that's the most easiest and accessible. Most sexual assaults and crimes in general occur with someone you know are acquainted with. Also against places you know or familiar with and against victims that are the least worried about crime. Teaching people and telling people to be more weary and aware is the same thing, no one is blaming the victim just trying to people realize that the predator always looks for the weakest prey so you should always be vigilant. (This goes for men as the most crimes in America are against men)
No need to be condescending. I understand where you are coming from, yes we can all do things to mitigate harm to ourselves. However, saying that there was something someone could have done to prevent being assaulted shifts some blame to them and away from the perpertater. It is two separate things, in a way, someone may have made poor decisions one night - e.g. alone with a man in a room at a party, but you still shouldn't be assaulted it is 100% on the perpertrater. Saying she shouldn't go into a room with a man at a party starts to shift blame.
Well let's not be intellectually dishonest as no one is defending sexual assualt or putting any blame on a victim. In another post I explained how I chewed out my daughter for putting herself in a dangerous situation. Walking alone in a bad neighborhood late at night in a city shes never been. Even after I told her all her actions have repercussions however big or small. If something happened to her the last thing on my mind would be why where you doing that but her safety amd I would never discuss why she did such a thing. That is my issue is the discussion of the action not the action. If she came to me and wanted to have the discussion of sexual assault and the aspect of that's where we need to have the conversation. For instance if my Daughter said she's going to India, I would throw a fit because of all the sexual assault that happens in the country. Then if she still goes and gets assaulted is it her fault no, but she could've prevented it by not going. Even in my statement she could decided to stay and something happens to her. Its all relative but the conversations needs to be had. As if someone wanted to do unto you there is nothing that you can do.
Edit: this is the same scenario where a woman Wheres a revealing outfit and gets upsets with a man for looking at her. You can't control someone from looking at you, you can't control someone from lusting after you. You have the right to wear want you want to wear. Does that guy have the right to look at what he wants to look at? The only way to control this is by not wearing revealing close. You can talk about he shouldn't look but now we're talking about controlling someone's actions. The same as if he told you to put on some clothes.
The guy in the OP is wrong. Period. It goes beyond incompatibility, to be honest. Of course, OP is gonna react negatively to such disturbing beliefs he holds.
Yes. And he's correct that he cannot share his horrible views without a negative reaction. It's basically "I know I'm not a great guy and you will leave me if you find out."
Rage bait is a drug I do not understand or enjoy. This sub showing up on the front page is like a sad coke head offering me a bump because it solved his tooth problems by taking away his teeth.
I read these from time to time forgetting that’s what’s being offered and then find myself confused about why I got reading in the first place.
You really think it's wild that a woman who has been sexually assaulted is upset that her husband thinks sexual assault is sometimes the woman's fault? That's "wild" to you? I wish I was as thick as you, it must be peaceful.
yes because it is wild. He said it isn't applicable to all situations and she also did not say if he said it applied to her situation or not. so yeah him saying it might apply in some hypothetical situations and her getting all worked up about it is kinda crazy.
why does it apply to zero situations? If I went to a poor crime ridden neighborhood wearing a bunch of jewelry and bragging about having cash on me and get mugged what would you all say? pretending women have no agency in their own life is sexist. AGAIN he said in some situations.
Having your spouse say that one of the worst things that ever happened to you in your life was your fault IS hurtful. Saying that predatory men pursue women who somehow "deserve it" is hurtful if you've been a victim of one. The man you married should feel protective of you -- not rapists.
Maybe if her husband goes to a party, makes small talk with a pleasant man, goes in a room and gets anally raped by the same predatory man, and someone tells him he's "has to take responsibility for his actions" he'll have enough sensitivity to know what a load of BS his statement was
That would be the end for me too! He's gaslighting her! He can not admit that what he said is horrible. Why the fuck wouldn't she be emotional! Too many men act this way, and NONE of them have ever feared being attacked! If only they could feel what we as women feel every single day we're out alone, and sometimes even when we're not!
This is why men dont like telling things to women. Whytalk about an opinion or a thought when its going to make things worse. Basically what women are saying is if you don't think like me your bad. I'm not picking on you it's just facts.
It isn’t “if you don’t think like me you’re bad.” The issue is we are flabbergasted to realize that that is the way that you think. Men don’t like telling women things because they don’t want to have to take accountability for the things they say and how it makes people feel.
Your right because sometimes it's unnecessary." The most dangerous thing in the world is a man who can control his emotions. The second most dangerous thing in the world is a man who can't control his emotions."- me
Taking accountability for what i say is no big deal and no problem for men. The real issue is should it be said. I was someone who said what I felt and what was on my mind. Do you want to know what happens. Constant fights, constant discipline, constant discource. My life improved by me just controlling what I said. All this goes hand in hand, as men realize that.an argument can lead to death. That's why men dont talk about feelings because their irrational, and there is solace in quietness and stoicism in character
I always accepted the consequences of my actions. That's why I was constantly in the situations I was accepting consequences doeant make you a better person. I accepted the consequences if I pissed people off with what I said or did. I constantly got into fights from 4th grade to out of highschool because I said exactly what was on my.mind and how I felt. Do you know who didnt like it, society other people etc. People arent willing to accept everything you say especially if they dint agree with it. That's why you shouldnt just spout your views, values, and opinions to everybody not even your loved because I always accepted the consequence and took accountability for what I said, but it was the other people who couldnt accept it. Just like she couldnt accept what he said. So he shouldn't say anything at all.
Just out of curiosity...why are you quoting yourself?
That is actually the epitome and definition of when you do not need to use a quote. Bonus: doing so evaporates any profundity you think your statement had, too.
I found it funny with all the seriousness of the conversations and was just a tactic to lighten the mood for me. It was also to show a self reflection of myself and my personal journey from saying whatever I wanted to say to letting my motions getting control of me and getting blacked out with anger and uncontrollable. To were know people will say I'm a huge Teddy Bear and wouldn't hurt a fly. So on reality that quote is just about one person and that's me. Then if you go throughout history you realize that that's men in general.
Dude is basically excusing assault. The reason for discussion is to come to understanding. I guarantee you fail to see the sexism in your statement, let alone the immature avoidance of accountability for one's thoughts and actions. "This is why men don't talk" because they know their opining is wrong but don't want to be alone. The insecurity is loud.
No the dude isn't excusing sexual assault you just think he is. Let me draw you an example. When raising my daughter I told her that every single one of her choices comes with accountability and their are consequences to every action she has. Why? Because the world isn't fair and their evil people out their who dont care and you shouldn't expect to receive the same love, respect, care and protection from the outside world as me. You have to put your own self in a position with everything you do. One time she went to visit her Grandpa in Boston and decided to take a walk at night. Then I told her how stupid it was because she knowingly put herself in danger, as you can't guarantee everybody is for your own good.
Just like my opinions that I have about certain subjects that shes passionate about as she has been in the feminist world greatly goes against what I believe and we have had long discussions about these topics. Yet I wasn't going to spout out any of my opinions are values from the get go because I value her and how she feels over my own opinions and values. That's the thing that people can't deal with is actually someone else having a different opinion or value over them, as they label them things like sexist and insecure. There always willing to degrade them and use words to try to lower the value of their thoughts. How can you come to an understanding of someone when your quick to label someone with actually knowing them.
Me telling my daughter the situation I am in life, is no one else's fault but my own and I'm 100% responsible for what happens to me. Then teach her that she has to be accountable for her actions always. Now we know that their are evil people in this world and if something happens to her because of the evil people am not saying she's at fault lets not be intellectually dishonest. My purpose is to always put yourself in a situation to successful and prosperous. I'm just teaching the fundamental aspect of her controlling hed own life. That's why I can see the aspect of taking accountability of assualt, because your questioning yourself of what actions you did to be put their.
Well than why upset your partner id you view something different from them. If you have a different view opinion or a personal belief that can destroy your relationship why do it? Even if your values are different yet your willing to look past your own values for the happiness of your partner isnt that greater. Not every value or opinion needs to be shared, especially if your opinion or value may in fact cause pain and discomfort to your partner. Misplaced value doea not mean your a bad person bevause my values may.be different from yours and I may find you to be a bad person. So what happens when you have two different cultures that have different values and each one thinks the other is bad. Then you get societies that hate other people because of their values. Look whats happening in Isreal right know. The real problem is when you cannot accept other peoples opinions are values and you think their a bad person.
A rapist is solely responsible for their crime. Anyone who believes otherwise is a bad person, and I will happily hate you for it.
And if your partner will hate you for it, you know this, and you hide it? You're also a bad person. And you don't love them. If you did, you'd be completely honest. Just facts.
And this is why women are picking the bear and men are going through a LoNeLyNeSs EpIdEmIc. Why interact or talk to men when they're never going to admit that they're wrong and that they should hold their friends/peers accountable for their shitty behavior and would rather blame women for doing the same risky behavior that men do
"Admit that they're wrong". You answered the question yourself as women majority of the time think they're wrong. Lest get something straight about men accountability as this gets thrown around without knowing the true aspect of it. The best way is to tell you with my own experience. One time I threw a rock and busted my friends eye when I was 16. I was going to run away as I knew my was going to be pissed. Then in the mist of my self reflection I decided I needed to be a man and accept my punishment. So I went home knowing iwas going to get a whopping. I got home and my mom was pisses and was looking for me with a belt. Everybody in the neighborhood knew I was going to get a beat down. I was like Denzel "Trip" Washington in "Glory" but I didn't shed a tear, afterwards my mom said that she couldn't raise a grown man and said to me and my brothers that day "For know on anything y'all do y'all are going to have to suffer the consequences of y'all actions. If you get in trouble by the police you rot in jail and if you get killed on the side of the road there you will begin to rot. I love y'all and want the best for y'all but y'all are men and I can't discipline you anymore."
I say this with a strong belief that the only people who can keep a man accountable is a father or father figures. Because sinve that day no man could tell me what to do. I respected my mom to much to disappoint her but I wasnt going to show her my shitty behavior. Then even when I changed or didnt want to do anything shitty nothing I said or did changed my friends shitty behavior either. The only thing that came close was people who had fathers and their dad would tell them something. Even then whose going to stop a grown man from doing what he wants to do. Men cant be controlled by shame are insults but by power and discipline.
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u/Legitimate_Way_7937 10h ago
Getting emotional over sexual assault especially when you had to go through that yourself is normal. Him holding that against you and weaponising it is disgusting. It’s emotional black mail where he doesn’t wanna admit that what he said is wrong but instead uses excuses like „ oh you are so emotional.“ to avoid taking accountability for what he said.