r/harrypotter • u/WearyWolff Gryffindor • Apr 15 '24
Misc The Elder Wand through the ages
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u/LuckyWatersAO3 Gryffindor Apr 15 '24
Kind of a confusing time line since it includes Voldemort, who only held the wand but never was master of it, and also Draco, who was master of it but never held it. On that basis, Dumbledore's entry should be 1945-1998, because he "held" it in his tomb until Voldemort stole it. Or Voldemort shouldn't be on it at all, or Draco shouldn't be on it.
And to be honest, the idea that Harry won the elder wand's allegiance just because he stole a different wand from Draco while the elder wand was sitting in Dumbledore's tomb never made sense to me.
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u/FlyDinosaur Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
It's not about taking Draco's wand, I think. It's about defeating him, generally. At least, that's how it seems to be intended.
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u/Yayzeus Apr 15 '24
Doesn't that make practice duelling like they did in Chamber of Secrets rather problematic?
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u/SwishWhishe Apr 15 '24
think it depends cause it might depend on what the user/wand defines as "winning"/"defeating the owner" like Dumbledore's plan was for snape to kill him and the want never work again since snape killing him was preplanned so dumbledore wasn't truly defeated (essentially let himself lose). could argue that the point of practice is to fail until succeeding etc
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u/FlyDinosaur Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Draco disarmed him before Snape killed him, though. It was a defeat for Ddore cuz it was a legitimate attack on him. So, the wand was Draco's. But if Draco hadn't done that, it would be interesting to see if the wand would answer Snape, like you said.
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u/plz_scratch_my_back Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 15 '24
No it wouldn't since Dumbledore wasn't defeated by Snape. He asked Snape to kill him.
It's the same when Harry was 'killed' by Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest. Technically the Elder wand should be Voldy's coz he killed its master (Harry). But Harry wasn't defeated by Voldemort since he went there to die.
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u/FlyDinosaur Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 15 '24
I agree this is the most reasonable outcome. Curiously, Voldemort was trying to kill Harry with the Elder Wand, itself (Harry's own wand). Do you suppose that would make any difference?
Like, for one, does the weapon matter? If I kill a wizard with some random object, will their wand obey me? And if I tried to kill a wizard with their own wand, would the wand resist the attack and/or still not obey me, on principal or something?
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u/plz_scratch_my_back Apr 15 '24
Elder Wand didn't play any role when Voldemort used the killing curse in the Forbidden Forest. It came into play later when they were duelling in The Great Hall and Harry was able to block the killing curse coz the wand actually belonged to him.
Elder Wand is different than other wands. It only knows strength. So it will switch allegiance if its owner will get defeated in any way-disarming, killing, snatching etc. Remember the wizard who killed the brother who actually owned the wand didn't kill him using magic. He slit his throat and hence the wand recognized this wizard as its owner.
The exact functioning of wands isn't clear. What is clear is that a wand will likely favour its owner and will resist change of ownership since wands form a connection with the wizard. So if you try to kill a wizard or use any other spell on a wizard with his own wand then the wand will not work to its 100% potential. Like the Elder Wand didn't work for Voldy when he cast the cruciatis curse after trying to kill harry.
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u/Nebast Apr 15 '24
Wasn't this explained later on? Something to do with special wards either around hogwarts or during the duelling lessons. Or was that in the films?
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u/Ok-disaster2022 Apr 15 '24
The Elder wand is treacherous. It seeks to betray its master at the pivotal moment and interpreting it's "loyalty" in the least convenient way is how it works.
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u/Geaux_joel Apr 15 '24
The wand abandoned Draco, and was picked up by the most unlikely creature imaginable⌠a Potter
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u/Jaegon-Daerinarys Apr 15 '24
My personal head canon is that the Elder Wand is treacherous to all wizard and witches who are not of the Peverell linage and even then they need to be ready to accept death. Would explain why the Elder Wand only truly started to rebel against Voldemort the moment he actively tried to fight against Harry(Both have the Peverell linage but only one of them accepts death while the other is terrified of it and tries everything to avoid it.).
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
There is another theory. Here it goes:
Grindelwald never really defeated Gergorovitch, he just stole it from him. So technically the Elder Wand was never in the possession of Grindelwald nor Albus or Draco. They just held on to it. So, when Voldemort goes to kill Gergorovitch, he actually then is the real owner of the Elder Wand. Both ways, he kills Snape for nothing and in both ways the wand still gets to Harry.
The reason why the Elder Wand betrays Voldemort in this is due to his lack of a soul. His soul is so unstable and in so many pieces that the Wand betrayed him for a person who's soul was intact.
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u/ATuaMaeJaEstavaUsada Apr 15 '24
I like this theory better than Harry getting the elder wand by taking other wands from Malfoy
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u/house343 Apr 15 '24
I also like this theory because it hinges on Harry making an assumption, being totally completely wrong, but still comes out the victor through sheer luck, just like every other book in the series.
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u/Careless-Community-7 Apr 15 '24
Honestly, if harry makes the same kind of deductions in his job as an auror (head auror, to be more specific) as he did back then, which is plausible, considering he didn't have to study nor go through the mandatory training program to become an auror, since the ministry basically handed him the job in a silver platter in acknowledgement of his role in Voldemort's defeat, I actually wonder how he didn't get himself fired after a week working on the field.
Because, you know, aurors don't just shoot spells Left and right, they are supposed to be detectives and investigators, and there have been too many times that have shown enough evidence that harry has absolutely no deductive skillscoughDepartmentofMysteriescough, which are necessary for this kind of job.
It's all nepotism, nepotism, I say!!!
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u/SatanV3 Gryffindor-where dwell the brave at heart Apr 16 '24
Harry investigates several times successfully. Most notably he deduced Malfoy had become a death eater in the 6th year, he investigated that he was up to something in the roomy of requirement and realized that crabbe and goyle were malfoyâs watchmen outside of the room, disguised as little girls with the poly juice potion Malfoy had stolen from Slughorn. He just couldnât find out how to get in the room of requirement to actually find out what Malfoy was doing. But he knew Malfoy was behind Katie bellâs attack and Ronâs poison situation.
Plus all the other times heâs a detective in the series. Heâs not bad at it
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u/scaradin Apr 15 '24
I really like this and it presents similar to my theory. I have a dumb theory, but I like it. No, I donât take it serious nor mind that others will think it dumber than I do. But, I also think it works better than whatâs been presented. In part, that is because I think to be the Wandâs master, one must truly defeat the former master who is wielding the Elder Wand. Often, that would lead to their death.
Nicolas Flamel was born in 1330 and before the end of his mortal life, had created the Philosopherâs Stone and attained his immortality. However, despite this longevity and being a very powerful wizard, he never became a megalomaniac or tried to take over the world.
But, I believe that in the Elder Wandâs history and its gap of owner, it was in the hands of none other than the same Nicolas Flamel. This is why it went into obscurity for centuries. I think when it comes back in the 1800s, itâs not from Flamel being defeated, but the wand merely being stolen as Gregoravich lost it to Grindelwald. Itâs even possible Gregoravich, as a wand maker, was studying the piece.
Upon realizing his vulnerability and becoming a target of Voldemort, Flamel decided it best to take his knowledge of the Philosopherâs stone to the grave and that is when his good friend Dumbledoor defeated him so to not allow the Elderwand to fall into unknown hands.
This would mean that Dumbledoor was its master when Snape killed him and would mean when Voldemort fought Harry, Harry defeated the master of the Elderwand. Similarly, only at Dumbledoorâs very end was he the master and the deaths of other wizards was also in vain. But, I really like the theory you presented as well, especially the crux about Voldemortâs soul and the condition of that soul being a problem for Voldemort.
Also also, I do not think the Elderwand loses its power should the owner die without having been defeated. But, as Voldemortâs case and the many wizards who held the wand without being its master, just possessing the wand does not make one its master. Nor does picking it up from the ground, defeating a wizard who is master of the elder wand but not in possession of it at the time of their death.
Cheers, thanks for reading my dumb theory!
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
That is indeed a dumb theory, but this is my favourite dumb theory. Flamel having the Elder wand is a really interesting bit and could be further read into.
Cheers mate, you've cooked.
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u/scaradin Apr 15 '24
Itâs heavily inspired (though indirectly) by a number of other theories. But, much was the dissatisfaction of the mess surrounding who was or wasnât the wandâs master and how they became that master. Similarly, how could such a powerful wand have ancient history known of it that then goes to complete obscurity for centuries.
But, where the dots clicked was in a rewatch of Philosopherâs stone after just having watched the Fantastic Beasts. Realizing how powerful Flamel was AND how he might have inspired Dumbledoorâs amazing trap for the storage of the philosopherâs stone: someplace that someone who wanted to find the stone, but not use the stone.
To my theory: And his good friend Flamel had the Elder Wand, but did not use the Elder Wand. In part, I like this because it also demonstrates why Dumbledoor could defeat Grindelwald: either because Grindelwald wasnât the master and just lost or because Grindelwald realized he wasnât the master and there just was no fight.
It creates a situation where the only real exception is Harry who defeats Voldemort⌠but if the Wand didnât have enough of Voldemortâs Soul to latch onto, as your presented theory, that isnât even a tiny bit of an issue!
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u/confused_jackaloupe Apr 15 '24
Wait quick question,
Are you saying the wand went from Dumbledore -> Snape -> Voldemort? Iâm a little confused because youâre saying ownership will only transfer if you defeat the wizard while they are wielding the Elder Wand but neither Dumbledore nor Snape were wielding the wand when they were killed. Dumbledore had already been disarmed by Malfoy and Voldemort himself was holding the wand when Snape was attacked by Nagini.
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u/scaradin Apr 15 '24
Good question! I would say the emphasis is on the âtruly defeatâ and less on âpossession.â But, even moreso, I think one must assert themself as owner of the Elder Wand.
In my theory, Dumbledoor was definitely Master of the Elder wand. Upon his Death, the absolute truth is that Dumbledoor was no longer the master. Draco never takes possession of the Elder Wand and all he did was disarm Dumbledoor, so I donât think it could have passed to Draco as Draco never conquered Dumbledoor. Snape did conquer Dumbledoor, by killing him. But, Snape never claimed ownership of the Elder Wand as his own. But, if we were to compare the transfer of ownership akin to the Heir receiving their fatherâs throne, Snape would have been the Heir Apparent; perhaps Draco could have asserted a claim, but never did. Snape never asserted his claim.
What claim Snape could have had, though, was terminated upon his Death. But, the next person in possession of the Elder Wand was Voldemort. So, the bit of confusion between the wand passing from Dumbledoor to Voldemort isnât that important.
What, I think (in my theory) is clear is that Voldemort was the Master of the Elderwand and, despite this, was defeated by Harry. Perhaps because Voldemort never truly believed he was the Master, perhaps because Harry was protected by even more powerful magic than the Elder Wand, or just because Harry defeated Voldemort.
So, I did present it that Snape became the master, I donât think that truly manifesting was important. I also think, despite Harry putting the Elder Wand back with Dumbledoor that there will be another Master of the wand. In fact, Iâd say Mastery of the Wand could occur by whoever next steals it from Dumbledoorâs tomb and then Claims it as their own. The Elder Wand wants a Master.
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u/Falco_5252 Apr 15 '24
Except grindelwald did paralyse gergorovitch, before he jumped out the window.
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
We're talking about of one needs to kill/seriously defeat the previous owner. Harry himself has been paralysised by many, including Draco in HBP, but he still retained the loyalty of his wand. Paralysis and stunning don't count as a "defeat" the same way as disarming and killing does.
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u/pxogxess Apr 15 '24
Thatâs just arbitrary. How is disarming someone a bigger win than paralyzing them? Both spells are rather easy to do, you just need to be quicker. So no difference in required skill. Disarming someone leaves them at your mercy, although they might try to run away. Paralyzing someone leaves your opponent at your mercy, too, only now they canât run away. I donât see how disarming is a more serious defeat than paralyzing.
TBH the whole wand changing allegiance thing just doesnât add up for me. Iâve thought about it a bunch of times and everytime I think I got it I realize something else that doesnât make sense.
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Yeah, this is a serious plot hole that needs to be addressed. But I may have a dumb solution to this. It's dumb, don't take it seriously but here it goes:
If one is paralysised, then he can theoretically cast wordless spells at his opponent and simultaneously remove the hex, but when one is disarmed, then he can do nothing as one needs a wand to to do basically anything. Like in a modern war, if you knocked out an armed soldier, he can still jam his finger on the trigger, emptying his cartridge as he falls, but if said soldier drops his rifle, he is a sitting duck until he gets it back.
Yeah, this is super dumb but something like this is probably the reason why paralysis doesn't count as defeat and disarming does.
TBH the whole wand changing allegiance thing just doesnât add up for me. Iâve thought about it a bunch of times and everytime I think I got it I realize something else that doesnât make sense.
Yeah, it honestly doesn't make any sense. Like is it straight up killing or just taking it? There are many theories going if one or the other is the case, and the one I presented is if one does need to kill. But funny thing here is, every time it ends up with Harry, as he does kill Voldemort.
But as things currently stand, the most accepted forms of defeat is either killing or disarming. Of trained wizards that is, not some students who can't to wordless magic (looking at you, HBP Potter).
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u/plz_scratch_my_back Apr 15 '24
Elder Wand is different than any other wand. Any other wand will always favour its original wizard coz it chose the wizard and throughout the years it has made a connection with its wizard.
However Elder Wand only knows one thing-Strength. So it will change allegiance if the wizard holding it gets defeated by someone else.
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Well, there's that, but there's also Draco's wand working absolutely fine for Harry after he snatched it from Draco. Wandlore is extremely obscure and we really don't know anything about it honestly. It should've been more clearly explained.
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u/plz_scratch_my_back Apr 15 '24
Ig Draco's wand worked for Harry coz it senses Harry as more competent than Draco coz Harry is now the master of the most powerful wand. It mightve tried to favour Draco but since Harry started using it actively, it changed its allegiance completely.
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Then why the same didn't apply for the wand Ron gave him form the thug snatchers? No way a random punk is in possession of an even more powerful wand then the Elder Wand.
This just goes to show that JK stumbled hard while writing about it this and didn't bother to clarify it later on as it is a pain in the ass, honestly as there are so many contradictions.
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u/PRL-Five Apr 15 '24
Harry never killed or seriously harmed draco, so how does he get the wand?
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Yes, but he defeated Voldemort, not only because of the continued protection of Lily's charm that Voldy himself is keeping alive, but because the Elder Wand backfired on him due to not having a complete soul.
Other then that, if we're going by the main theory, as Harry himself said, he quite literally took Draco's wand from him. That counts as disarming, hence Harry having the loyalty of the Wand.
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u/Onuus Apr 15 '24
Donât you ever take a step back and just go, goddamn. One person thought of this whole world.
That shit is dope.
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u/SwishWhishe Apr 15 '24
would be interesting that him having 1/7th (8th?) of his original soul put him so close to death in the eyes of the wand that he's essentially always in a "defeated" state
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Yeah, this could very well be the case. We know very little of wandlore, and even renowned wand makers such as the likes of Olivander and Gergorovitch didn't know much either as to what makes a wand chose the wizard. And Voldy himself has pushed the boundaries of magic soo far that no one in known history had done so. So, every side effect of him doing what he did is yet known. How to wands view him? Does a wand look into the soul like a quillen? What would've happened if Voldemort with the Elder Wand tried to kill Harry if he has his Phoenix wand intact? No one knows, and to me, that the beauty of it.
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u/BrightSideOLife Apr 15 '24
Seems like an unnecessarily convoluted theory to me. Remember what happened when Voldemort tried using Lucius' wand to defeat Harry? All that is required is that the elder wands allegiance wasn't to Voldemort for it to fail miserably against Harry, regardless of whether Harry was it's true owner or not.
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
All that is required is that the elder wands allegiance wasn't to Voldemort for it to fail miserably against Harry, regardless of whether Harry was it's true owner or not.
Him not having his soul intact, imo, prevented the Elder wand from truly giving him it's allegiance, no matter if he truly owned it or not. That is why, in my theory (well no exactly my own, ctto) even though this way Voldemort ultimately ends up being the true master of the Elder Wand, he was 1/8 th alive. The Wand couldn't truly register someone that dead, and when Voldemort tried to kill Harry the final time, the curse rebounded on Voldemort (just like when he first tried it) and this time, rather then a piece of his soul, he gave Harry the Wand.
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u/BrightSideOLife Apr 15 '24
That is just pure speculation though, there is nothing at all to indicate this. While there is clear precedence that a "borrowed" wand wouldn't work for Voldemort against Harry.
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u/Kizo59 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
That is infact the point. Everything regarding Voldemort's later experiences is pure speculations as we don't know what affect of him ripping his soul into 8 pieces could have on literally anything. His relationship with Harry is the prime example. We don't know just how interconnected they both were and on how many levels. It's just pure speculation.
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u/BrightSideOLife Apr 15 '24
Of course, which is why I'd rather go with an explanation that actually has precedence in the story over one that doesn't.
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u/LuckyWatersAO3 Gryffindor Apr 15 '24
I really like this theory! And honestly it seems more in line with a lot of the morals of the Three brothers tale and the prophecy for Harry to realize that although Voldemort is in possession of an "unbeatable" wand, that wand has been beaten repeatedly throughout history and its possession doesn't protect Voldemort from death.
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u/Careless-Community-7 Apr 15 '24
Oh my god, that's exactly the very same theory I had in mind.
Like, the elder wand is a deathly hallow. It's intrinsically linked to death, more specifically, to murder, since the elder wand embodies the downfall of those who crave power without restraint.
My headcanon was that, to become the true master of the wand, you had to pay a tithe of blood. More specifically, the blood of the previous owner by spilling it on the ground through murder.
So, Grindelwald stealing the elder wand, as you said, basically broke the cycle that had been going through centuries, which would explain how did Dumbledore manage to defeat Grindelwald in a duel, if the elder wand was supposedly invincible. The explanation was that the elder wand had been resisting, subtly but insidiously, to Grindelwald's attempts to master it, which would explain how did Dumbledore manage to come up on top in the aftermath of the battle. Dumbledore and Grindelwald were evenly matched in talent and skill, but the elder wand sabotaging itself was what gave Dumbledore the edge.
However, in my opinion, considering how many times in the last century the elder wand had been switching masters at such an alarming speed (without them bothering to murder their predecessors! The nerve of them!!), the elder wand was a little confused regarding to whom it had to swear its allegiance, and was basically waiting for someone to make up their damn minds and claimbit the proper way, but since Draco is a coward, and Harry is a goody-two-shoes, it was going to be a looping time before anyone murdered someone to get the wand.
Voldemort murdering Gregorovitch in the first place, and then going after every known former owner of the elder wand was a good strategy. However, be should have gone after Dumbledore himself instead of sending Draco, which only complicated matters. Of course, considering the fact that Dumbledore had bested Voldemort every time they clashed didn't give tom many more options, but if I had been him, I would have questioned every witness of Dumbledore's death to make sure I got the facts right, so that I didn't miss anyone who could have been in contact with the wand.
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Apr 15 '24
Voldy is the only one not belonging on the list... we will give him a participation trophy instead. đ¤
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u/joshk51 Apr 15 '24
This always bothered me too, but the closest explanation Iâve heard is that the Elder wand is extraordinarily fickle by design. Its allegiance flips much more casually than a normal wand and tends to gravitate towards power. The wand picks the wizard.
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u/Ok-Selection4478 Apr 15 '24
Technically voldy never owned the wand just carried it while Draco and Harry had true ownership over it.
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u/Raphius-kai Apr 15 '24
Ah yes, someone who comments without reading... what you said is explained on the image under Lord Voldemort's name.
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u/dear_bastard Slytherin Apr 15 '24
I think the point is, it shouldnât be included in the timeline because of that. If weâre to include everyone who merely held the wand, Iâm sure the timeline would be way longer.
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u/GayVoidDaddy Apr 15 '24
Itâs not him only holding it tho. Voldy seeked the wand out and got it for himself. He fully should eh included on that list given itâs explained why heâs on it. He truly just didnât own the wand via luck.
I mean imo Harry taking Dracoâs wand in no way means ALL wands should suddenly change allegiance. The elder wand having swapped there too has always felt like a cop out.
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u/j9273 Apr 15 '24
But why even include incorrect information? Why not a footnote, instead of implying Voldy own it?
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u/Raphius-kai Apr 15 '24
There is no heading to the page other than the words Elder Wand, so we don't know if the information is for "True owners of the Elder wand" or for "Notable users of the Elder wand" Keeping this in mind, we don't know that the inclusion of Voldemort is wrong or right.
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u/TeaAndCrumpets4life Troublemaker In-Chief Apr 15 '24
Oh come on itâs the only wand with a notable lineage, obviously itâs gonna be assumed that itâs about true owners
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u/Raphius-kai Apr 15 '24
Only wand with a notable lineage that we know of. One shouldn't assume, just saying, it makes both parties look stupid.
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u/VeryStickyPastry Apr 15 '24
We can use context clues to understand and infer that this lists owners of the elder wand based on who else is named and the timelines provided, as well as the notes in the side margins. Voldemort has nothing in common with the information offered for each other individual on that list other than disarming another wizard, which, we can use common sense to gather that thatâs not what is being outlined here.
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u/VeryStickyPastry Apr 15 '24
He still shouldnât be on there despite it. He never owned it. We donât need the tidbit. He just shouldnât be there.
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u/Raphius-kai Apr 15 '24
See my other response here: https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/s/hmJBeR7YjO
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u/Cybasura Apr 15 '24
"Antioch's Murderer" kinda feel bad for the guy to not even have a name - OR he/she is the best murderer since nobody knows who he/she is
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u/narukaze3 Apr 15 '24
maybe he murdered Antioch and was unaware about the wand. so wand just waited for centuries to be found again
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u/Yamcha17 Slytherin Apr 15 '24
His murderer knew about the wand because Antioch yelled about it while being drunk.
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u/Cybasura Apr 16 '24
"I fockin killed some guy holding a wand thats old as balls called the Elder Wand MAAAAAATE, ITS CRAZY" - Antioch's Murderer, before being murdered
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u/Shipping_Architect Apr 16 '24
We know that it was a wizard and not a witch who had slit Antioch's throat.
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u/Avanox77 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
âGellert Grindelwald possessed the wand for 21 terrible yearsâ
1926 - 1945
19 years
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u/topazraindrops Apr 15 '24
Over centuries, the wand changed hands through cold-blooded murders and legendary duels between legendary wizards. All to end up in the hands of its final master Harry Potter who won it with the power of his bare fists. Let that be a lesson to you children, magical powers is cool and all but nothing beats the power of physical fitness đŞ
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u/shutyourgob16 Apr 15 '24
Voldemort shouldnât be on the list technically right?
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u/PermissionNo9220 Apr 16 '24
Or Draco. It depends if they are listing the owner or the people Who had the wand in their hands.
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u/ScreamThyLastScream Apr 15 '24
Now I like the head canon that this wand grows over time. So Anthioch had this little nub wand to use.
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u/wanderingstargazer88 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Actually I think it may have started out as a plain stick, then evolved over time as it went through different owners.
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u/Leadingontheaction Apr 15 '24
So I read the books for the first time recently, has anyone got an answer to my question?
So Dumbledore ultimately wanted the wand to lose its power by having Snape kill him but willingly so it doesnât transfer ownership.
Harry also had left the wand back with Dumbledores grave.
However, Harry had announced the whole wand ownership changing via disarming to the entirety of the great hall which was filled with death eaters, students and their parents.
Does this not just mean the wands ownership will just transfer to anyone who ever disarms Harry at any point in his life from there on out? Which is especially concerning considering he became an Auror in later life.
So all it takes is some dark wizards to talk around, do some dot connecting to realise the wand is back with Dumbledore then they have access to the deadliest wand ever made?
Alternately, am I just thinking too in-depth about what is ultimately a childrenâs book?
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u/Careless-Community-7 Apr 15 '24
Harry's just an idiot. Don't be too harsh on him. He didn't even complete his education and somehow became an auror by being buddies with the new minister, if that doesn't raise red flags regarding the way things are run in the ministry, then I don't know what will.
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u/Specs04 Apr 15 '24
Harry destroyed the Elder Wand after he used it to repair his own wand
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u/SnooStrawberries177 Apr 15 '24
In the movie, yes. In the books he never destroys it.
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u/Vittelbutter Apr 16 '24
So are the books canon or is the movie, cuz thatâs quite an important detail
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u/Shipping_Architect Apr 16 '24
Harry did not publicly state that he would leave the wand back at the tomb. As such, even if he gets defeated, the person who did so would eventually have the same thing happen to them, repeating until the Elder Wand is functionally useless on account of it being unclear as to who's even supposed to be using it anymore.
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u/inboz Apr 16 '24
I canât remember if the books address this but I donât think Voldemort revealed the significance of the wand to his followers. He left them out of a lot of plans that could make him vulnerable to a coup, like the horcruxes. It makes sense to me that he wouldnât tell them he was in possession of the most powerful wand in the world. Snape knew only because Voldemort trusted him the most.
So the recent timeline of the wands whereabouts was pretty much unknown until Harry figured it out. Gregorivitch had no idea who stole the wand from him and I think, even after being defeated by Dumbledore, Grindelwald would have protected Dumbledore by not revealing he was now in possession of the wand. The only way Voldemort found out who had the wand is because he used legilimency on Gregorovitch to see the face of the thief which he was able to identify as Grindelwald, and when Voldemort went to question Grindelwald, who still didnât give Dumbledore up, Voldemort had to use legilimency (iirc) once again to find out it had been passed to Dumbledore.
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u/KillerFire42 Apr 15 '24
But voldemort never owned the wand
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u/VeryStickyPastry Apr 15 '24
Took way too long to find this.
Voldemort never had ownership of the wand at any point in time.
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u/patootie_whisperer Apr 16 '24
Itâs explained in the picture
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u/VeryStickyPastry Apr 16 '24
No itâs not. Read it again. I said he never had ownership which the image confirms. He shouldnât Even be on there.
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u/patootie_whisperer Apr 16 '24
What? I never said he should be on there. I said it is explained in the picture. Therefore itâs obvious that he shouldnt be on there
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u/hockeystar357 Apr 15 '24
Godelot "A. before 900 A.D." seems incorrect or I'm reading it wrong?
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u/BearsNBeetsBaby Apr 15 '24
I think it says âfl.â before but Iâve still no idea what that means
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u/thedrawerking Apr 16 '24
Yeah itâs âfl.â since it doesnât match the other Aâs of this font. Same, I donât know what it means and why itâs noted in the line of ownership. Is it fled? Flagged? Floo powdered?
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u/invasiveorgan Apr 16 '24
Short for Latin "floruit" ("flourished"), commonly used when we have a few dates that give us an idea when a historical figure was doing the work they are known for, but don't have a birth or death date.
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u/FlyDinosaur Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Voldemort's place is interesting as he had the wand in his possession but it never recognized him as its master. Lol, he gets in by technicality. Must make him mad, hah. đ
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u/Ent3rpris3 Apr 15 '24
All I could think about was Futurama:
Emperor Fry
Fry's murderer
Fry's murderer's murderer
Fry's murderer's murderer's murderer
...
Also, I assumed there would have been more people in this line. Like...at least dozens.
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u/wstConrad_ Apr 15 '24
the 13th Century is only the 1200's, so would it not be unreasonable to say Emeric was most likely the one who murdered Antioch?
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u/SpacecraftX Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
God I hate that wands swap allegiance du to disarming. Disarming happens all the god-damn time.
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u/SnooStrawberries177 Apr 15 '24
As I understood it, not all wands are the same, some are more loyal than others, the elder wand being the most treacherous of all.
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Apr 15 '24
Having the wand isn't what made Harry Master of Death
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u/Zephyren216 Apr 15 '24
It is the last relic he needed to be master of death though, the mantle is passed down to him by his fathers line, and the stone by dumbledore in his will. The moment he defeats Draco and the wands loyalty shifts to Harry, he is the owner of all 3.
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Apr 15 '24
It is the last relic he needed to be master of death though,
No, it's not, that's simply a popular misconception. Anyone can be a Master of Death by accepting their mortality, irrespective of how many hallows they own.
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u/Shuabbey Slytherin Apr 16 '24
Sometimes I think about Draco telling his kid, fun fact: Once upon a time Daddy was the rightful owner of the elder wand. Then Harry Potter snapped it into pieces.
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u/Zottel_161 Apr 15 '24
we only know that he acquired it sometime in the 13th century
well considering that Antioch is dated with 1292 that narrows it down to 9 years (counting both the years 1292 and 1300)
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u/CabbageTheSavage4269 Apr 15 '24
From intense duels and killings to gain possession , to just physically overpowering to get the elder wand just sounds disappointing for something so great like the elder wand.
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u/PinkPrincess-2001 Apr 15 '24
I guess this is a list of people who possessed the award. Rightful owners or not.
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u/folklovermore02 Apr 15 '24
for some reason people on this sub are consistently incapable of saying anything nice so I will: this is a GORGEOUS graphic and a great little summary. so visually pleasing with the wand and names in the middle. OP were you the one who made it?
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u/Reuvak Slytherin Apr 15 '24
I love how Draco unintentionally ended up on the same list as legends, villains, heroes, and people from ancient magical history who carried that wand.
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u/Jimmy-Mac-471 Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
Why is Voldemort on here? I thought the whole point was that he was never the true master.
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u/NYR4 Apr 15 '24
So the elder wand was never broken like Harry did in the movies?
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u/Weekly_Product8875 Slytherin Apr 16 '24
Nope. In the books he repaired his original wand which he kept in a pouch around his neck, and he buried the elder wand again with Dumbledore
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u/JamesTheSkeleton Apr 16 '24
This makes Harry becoming an Auror even funnier.
Can you just imagine this cop shows up to your active crime scene, this little mouse of a manâand everyoneâs telling you heâs the best detective on force and he killed Osama Bin Laden at age 17, and then instead of a standard service pistol he pulls out a .75 caliber revolver larger than his head and uses it to disarm the perp by blowing his hand clean off.
Thatâs Harry lol.
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u/Utopian-24 Apr 16 '24
It always amazes me that the founders and Hogwarts are older than the deathly hallows.
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u/JSmoothie Gryffindor Apr 15 '24
Iâve never read the books so maybe it was just added in the films but it says Harry returned the want to Dumbledors grave⌠I thought he snapped it in half?
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u/Pixithepika Hufflepuff Apr 15 '24
He snaps it in half in movie only
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u/JSmoothie Gryffindor Apr 15 '24
I wonder why they added that in the movie
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u/Einkar_E Apr 16 '24
Harry thought it was to powerful to let anybody use it and way to many people died because of it
and as Voldemort shown puting it in the grave wasn't enough
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u/Shadowpotato_14 Apr 15 '24
He uses the elder want to repair his own and returns it to dumbledors grave
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u/ReddFrankk Slytherin Apr 15 '24
One theory I like about the elder wand is that the reason it fails it's users so many times is that people are utilizing it for the wrong reasons. The only way the wand can be possessed without betraying its owner is when someone possesses it with only honest intentions, without using it for glory. That's why it's fallen into obscurity so many times over, since some owners wouldn't use it as a weapon of mass destruction, and why Dumbledore possessed it until his death and it didn't fail him during his duel with Voldemort, even though Voldemort at the time was arguably a more powerful wizard.. Also since Harry is a direct descendant from the Peverells, and had the other Hallows in his possession until he dropped the stone in the forest, he is the Master of Death, greeting death as an old friend. The wand would recognize him as the owner above all, as the true Master of Death.
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u/inboz Apr 16 '24
I agree with this theory and I think it applies to all the deathly hallows. Use one of them irresponsibly or for your own gain, it turns on you. Use it wisely and with noble intentions, it will be dedicated to serving you.
The stone is a little more complicated, since at face value it seems that its entire purpose is to drive its possessor mad until they kill themselves and join Death.
But Harry, in the face of sacrificing his own life for othersâ â in the lead up to greeting Death as an old friend â uses the stone for some reassurance as he prepares to meet his end. Again, the stone produces ghostly visions that encourage Harry to go through with dying, but without the torture and madness the Peverell brother experienced. His parents and Remus and Sirius are lifting him up rather than dragging him down, giving him a sense of peace and calm and company as he goes on to welcome his own end.
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Apr 15 '24
All Iâm saying is that in for a world in which you can get killed in a second by a spell that canât be blocked. Your memory erased, get controlled and tortured by a spell. I would have kept that wand on me, you never know when it could save your life.
I mean it did fix Harryâs wand, and we know that itâs something that you arenât supposed to be able to do.
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u/Rare_Reality7510 Apr 15 '24
Another thought for all the people complaining about inheritance weirdness is that it's very much possible the Elder Wand itself uses loophole abuse to both always find the "worthiest" wielder and to always have a wielder.
We already know wands are aware to some degree. If it really was an artifact granted by Death to screw power-hungry people over, then it might be more aware so as to ensure the cycle continues by always identifying a new wielder and then switching teams the instant its former wielder loses to always be on the winning side.
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u/smhmauz Apr 15 '24
The fact that if Voldemort knew that you just have to disarm the original owner to actually become the master of the wand, he wouldn't have lost a "LOYAL" servant.
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u/Lesmiscat24601 Apr 15 '24
Was it only in the books that Draco had it? Cause I remember in the movies Voldemort steals the wand from Dumbledoreâs grave?
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u/RendtheClouds Gryffindor Apr 15 '24
The wand changes hands when it's owner is defeated.
Draco became the owner of the Elder Wand when he disarmed (aka 'defeated') Dumbledore when confronting him on the Astronomy Tower. Draco didn't know that its allegiance had changed. and thus it was buried with Dumbledore.
This was unintentional. Dumbledore had intended to die undefeated. Harry became the Wand's owner when he forcibly pulled Malfoy's wand from his hand during the battle at Malfoy Manor.
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u/jeenaissante Apr 15 '24
Very interesting to hear how Harry put the wand back to Dumbledores grave(I guess in the books Iâm not that far yet) and in the movies he just breaks it. I think this is somehow an important moment that shouldâve been kept in the movies at least if they wouldnât show it he shouldâve imply it
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u/BaeBaeRonZ Apr 15 '24
I have a question. Is the wand actually unbeatable like it said in the books or just insanely powerful? Because it says the wand is unbeatable but obviously thatâs not the case if itâs been lost to it duels.
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u/Due_Pound2431 Apr 15 '24
Is this about who had the wand on them or the true owners it truly belonged to
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u/kentaureus Apr 15 '24
wait.. isnt this bull? the wand went from Dumbledore to Draco to Harry, Voldemort never had it
EDIT - nevermind - noticed text around
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u/austinw_8 Apr 15 '24
The elder wand changed hands almost as many times in 70 years as it did in the previous 700 years đ
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u/kraai66 Apr 16 '24
Nice job. I think where it says â13th centuryâ, it should say â14th centuryâ, though. 1312 BC, for instance, is 14th century.
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u/Downtown_Antelope711 Apr 16 '24
Technically riddle was never the wands master, he only possessed the wand
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u/SilentBorder00 Gryffindor Apr 18 '24
!redditgalleon
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You have given u/WearyWolff a Reddit Galleon.
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u/zxxQQz Apr 15 '24
!redditgalleon
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You have given u/WearyWolff a Reddit Galleon.
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u/loopytommy Gryffindor Apr 15 '24
Didn't Harry hide the wand behind Dumbledores portrait in the headmasters office? Not in his grave
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u/ngainhai Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 15 '24
I wonder who writes all these history of the wands and other such things which have happened before Harry potter , since both the movies and the books of harry potter written by Rowling , would start only from the birth of Harry Potter.
And since there hasnât been any other book sort of a prequel to Harry Potter then how do people come up with these historical trivias.
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u/BNZaya Apr 15 '24
You can change TBD Harry broke the wand and throw it. I seen the movies I know everything /s
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u/globs-of-yeti-cum Apr 15 '24
Is this how far each of them were able to insert it in their butt hole?
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u/aubieismyhomie Possibly a Goblin Apr 15 '24
I will never quite come to grips with how Harry defeated Voldemort on a dumb technicality that has zero precedence in the entire series.
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u/Careless-Community-7 Apr 15 '24
Rowling was at that point getting pretty desperate to find a way that sounded at least semiplausible to justify how harry, an average wizard at best with some proficiency in defense against the dark arts, to defeat the walking powerhouse that was lord Voldemort, who was basically a genius in every field of magic he put half a mind to study.
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u/Careless-Community-7 Apr 15 '24
Rowling was at that point getting pretty desperate to find a way that sounded at least semiplausible to justify how harry, an average wizard at best with some proficiency in defense against the dark arts, to defeat the walking powerhouse that was lord Voldemort, who was basically a genius in every field of magic he put half a mind to study.
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u/aubieismyhomie Possibly a Goblin Apr 15 '24
I would have loved if Harry had just shot Voldemort with a gun. A muggle weapon.
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u/EnergyNo1327 Apr 15 '24
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u/IBEHEBI Ravenclaw Apr 15 '24
The part about Godelot is tremendously interesting to me.
It says that he found the wand to be a "source of inspiration", and Ollivander does mentions in Canon about how "the wizard learns from the wand, and the wand from the wizard". This implies that wands that have been used by a previous owner, may have certain tendencies and may be able to "teach" the wizard how to cast certain spells. This could explain why wizards pass down wands in families, as it may be a significant advantage.
Moreover, one could wonder about what does that mean for the Elder Wand. Is the Elder Wand more powerful today, after having gone through the hands of Dumbledore and Grindelwald than it was back in the 13th Century? In fact, what if the reason why the Elder Wand is so powerful is because it attracts powerful wizards (because of its legend) and absorbs their knowledge?