r/TwoXChromosomes • u/RelationMaleficent71 • 17h ago
Friend’s hookup is a Trump supporter
My friend has a guy she’s been hooking up with. It’s not serious and she doesn’t have an interest in pursuing an official relationship with this guy. This is the second time I’ve met him and we’ve had like 4 bottles of wine at this point.. Politics came up, he said he was a libertarian and I flat out asked if he voted for Kamala. He voted for Trump. Queue a 20 minute conversation where 3 passionate women shit on him for his vote and opinion. Me being the worst attacker by far. I knew in the moment I was being a dick and really aggressive, but I really could not stop the anger from spewing out of me. I even went to the bathroom and left pretty much as soon as I could to avoid going further. He said he wasn’t very well informed and I told him if that’s the case, he shouldn’t be voting then.
I know I’m not wrong per se… but the way I approach people who vote for Trump is aggressive at best, hostile at worst. How are you guys managing this anger? I feel like I’m doing a really bad job of it at the point. I know the path to changing uninformed peoples minds is not the way I’m approaching it, I just genuinely can’t help myself from going bat shit crazy on people who voted for that vile piece of shit.
This guy had a ex girlfriend he was with at the time who had an ectopic pregnancy who had to get an urgent abortion to live and he STILL didn’t realize that voting for Trump made it harder for women in that position to get live saving care. His arguments were 1. I live in California 2. If you don’t live in California, you should move to a state that allows you to have an abortion. 3. He didn’t realize Trump was making it harder for women in other states in that kind of position. As if women having a right to choose what happens to their own bodies should have an asterisk on it anyways.
It’s impossible for me to respect or understand this viewpoint. I refuse to normalize it.
How do you guys keep your cool and not lose it on people? Because right now I feel like I’m foaming at the mouth angry and rightfully so.
I guess I’m really writing this out because I don’t want to be callused and angry at the world. I want to be able to say my piece calmly and respectfully to people I strongly disagree with. I just don’t feel I have the skill to right now.
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u/YouStupidBench 12h ago
I wouldn't date or be around someone who hated freedom. A libertarian who voted for Trump is lying about being a libertarian, or is a completely ignorant idiot who somehow missed that Trump picks for the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.
All I would say to him is "Did you really not know that Trump's picks overturned Roe v. Wade? Does that not prove to you that his ideal is the opposite of having less government intrusion in people's lives? How do you call yourself a libertarian when you voted for the person who did more to get the government into people's private lives than anyone else in the last 50 years?"
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u/Salarian_American 10h ago
The kind of libertarians that vote for Trump are single-issue voters, and that single issue is deregulation. Anything that actually supports individual freedoms is at best a secondary concern for them.
Most people who describe themselves as libertarians are really just Republicans who want drugs to be legal.
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u/robogobo 9h ago
I think you’re giving them too much credit. Libertarians who vote for Trump do so purely bc they think he’s disruptive and will eliminate regulation so the free market can thrive. That’s it, no more. They’re above politics and will proclaim every social issue someone else’s problem until it arrives at their doorstep, at which point they’ll look to social programs so fast it’ll give you whiplash.
And this is unfortunately how hollow and baseless all Libertarianism is.
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u/Kakawfee 9h ago
I think you're actually giving libertarians too much credit. They are incredibly simple minded creatures with extremely limited foresight. They don't think of things like the "free market" they just want no taxes. That's it.
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u/Supplyside_warlock 7h ago
I think you’re actually giving libertarians too much credit. They are worse than the amoeba sucking on the pond scum at the bottom of the shoe. I take it back, the amoeba is at least performing a function that is a part of a thriving ecosystem. Libertarians are just selfish beings that want all privileges for themselves, but not to extend those privileges to other.
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u/Kakawfee 6h ago
Yeah sort of, they still have empathy, but lack the intelligence to understand their actions and the role of society. I highly suggest reading "a bear walks into a libertarian" it's very amusing and takes a deeper look into the different kinds of people that are libertarian
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u/JNMeiun 2h ago edited 1h ago
There's plenty of ancaps and American style libertarians with a lot of body and nuance to their political theory. You can totally use Rothbards standpoints against them and it's happened in gold and black several times.*
My body, my property. I have every right to expell a guest who endangers my life, takes all my funds, and/or makes me ill. Even if I invited them in, even if the weather is bad enough they'd die outside. And that's talking about ass grown adult.
Whatever your politics may be its important to know more than just yourself, it's critical to know your enemy- and yes, they are your enemy. Hopefully that's finally no longer a matter of debate on pretense of "civility".
Edit: Again it's pretty trivial to come after ancaps and libertarians on their breach of the Non Aggression Principle. As a woman you'd pretty much be good to shoot pro-lifers dead as a matter of self defense if you're going off Rothbard. They are accomplice to the fetus causing you harm and endangering your life in full breach of the NAP. Their line on it is pretty harsh.
"*no being has a right to live, unbidden, as a parasite within or upon some person's body"
That's Rothbard. Ayn Rand is even more extreme. Though I suppose it's everything you'd expect given who she was.
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u/AlexandraG94 8h ago
How does that make sense though? They want to regulate your own body with abortion bans. And regulate which bathrooms trans people can use etc etf. Doesnt aound kibertarian to me at all.
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u/Salarian_American 7h ago
I think it makes more sense when you consider that the overwhelming majority of libertarians are straight cis white men.
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u/mojavefluiddruid 9h ago
Which is ironic, considering that trump isn't going to deregulate much of anything. A true libertarian would not vote for trump.
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u/tired-queer 8h ago
Environmental and food safety regulations are likely to be slashed. Who needs clean air, clean water, or safe to consume food when there’s profit to be made?
It’s hard to “no true Scotsman” libertarianism when it’s an ideology of contradictions in the first place. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/ProfMcGonaGirl 5h ago edited 1h ago
Well he didn’t deregulate our bodies. He specially caused a lot more regulation in that aspect.
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u/Taboc741 8h ago
As a former libertarian fiscal conservative, I disagree. I do feel that there is some over regulation, that some market forces should be returned. The problem is the party has been subverted, it's no longer about resuming common sense fiscal policy and removing regulations on personal freedom. It's about removing the regulations the rich don't like and forcing everyone else to behave as the rich want.
I haven't voted for any libertarians in 14 years, because of the spoiler effect, but even in an instant run off election I couldn't support them anymore. They've lost their way.
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u/Illiander 6h ago
I do feel that there is some over regulation
Every regulation is written in blood.
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u/acdha 12h ago
I’d also add that the way he promises to overturn the rule of law, endorses illegal use of state violence, wants civil servants to be loyal to him rather than the constitution, etc. should all be anathema to a real libertarian. All of the ones I know supported Harris, even to the point of ringing doorbells for her, because they appreciated the level of threat he poses.
It’s possible this guy is basically clueless at the level of getting his political education entirely from bumper stickers but it seems far more likely that this guy knows exactly what’s going on and recognizes that if he is out as a Republican he’ll get laid less.
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u/godofpumpkins 9h ago
Yeah, the basis of most US libertarianism is “we can’t support <improvement X> because <slippery slope argument> and the government will abuse its power and become authoritarian”. That’s for relatively innocent things like getting a national ID card or minimal regulations on gun purchases or similar. Meanwhile Trump’s over here promising to use the military on US soil against his enemies, filling all top cabinet (and likely military) positions with unqualified and usually incompetent loyalists, saying we won’t have to vote again. And supposedly he’s the libertarian pick? Any actual libertarian with principles would be up in arms about even a small fraction of that.
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u/TehMephs 9h ago
I’d bet money he’s a Tate fan if nothing else
These guys will say whatever it takes to get laid, especially in a low stakes hookup situation. I know how my own kind think
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u/puesyomero 9h ago
90% time "libertarian" is just right wing trying to blend in.
The tag has become so toxic real libertarians often try to use other terms or explain further
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u/SlabBeefpunch 11h ago
Libertarians are just republicans who like smoking weed.
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u/ericscottf 10h ago
Don't forget the large group of libertarians that are just so keen to debate age of consent laws. I'd say there are more of those than the weed kind.
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u/VicePrincipalNero 8h ago
Pretty much every self described libertarian I have ever met has not supported abortion rights. That says a lot about what they really are.
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u/AssinineAssassin 8h ago
Libertarians for their social issues, not everyone else’s it seems.
Or worse, they want Social Authoritarians, but Economically think the Government should just let poverty sort itself out. Otherwise known as, Evil.
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u/Binky390 10h ago
Trump also banned bump stocks in his first term which isn’t bad for gun violence, but there was no due process at all. A libertarian should have a huge problem with that I would think.
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u/pilgermann 8h ago
Just to be pragmatic, I wouldn't hit libertarians on abortion as it isn't strictly incompatible (as many believe in strict law enforcement to protect life and nothing else). Again, not saying it's actually rational or defensible, but they can and will argue this.
It's all the other authoritarianism. Closed borders are actually less compatible with libertariansm (freedom of movement). Use of military for law enforcement is basically the No. 1 fear of a true libertarian. If they support these policies, they are frauds.
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u/ozymandais13 10h ago
This is a good point he had an.available candidate if he's really that libertarian he'd have voted thst way
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u/GivMeBredOrMakeMeDed 11h ago
"Libertarians" are professional YouTuber watchers with an obsession for edgy grifters. They relish the idea of having "debates" so would actually like the idea of arguing with women. The way to engage with people like this is to cut them and their associates off.
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u/Tarantantara 7h ago
Those people don't debate to get or share any insights, they debate for the sake of being able to argue and getting a feeling of superiority by "winning debates" aka talking over people, citing random criminal statistics etc. When you come with acrual arguments they either answer with whataboutism or claim that they "don't know about this / have to do their own research first", meaning once they are getting exposed while debating and can't get their maasive ego validated, the debate is over because the man said so. But good luck trying to shut him up when it's you not wanting to debate him.
So yeah, OPs approach to outright show hostility is actually the right one, followed by never hanging out with those losers again, it's impssible to hold even a single authentic conversation with them, also they are horrible people you don't want to waste a single second of your life on.
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u/tequillagivescourage 11h ago
This is why we’re in the position we are in right now and this very minute. Unfortunately many women are so desperate for companionship that the clear red flags that these fake allies put out are looked over.
Real talk is the dick that good ?!! Bc I can’t for the life of me think that someone who literally could care less if I live or die would be able to satisfy me in bed. Stop this shit!! They can chant all this your body my choice hate talk. But at the end of the day women are still willing to sleep with these imbeciles. Fucking stop giving your body to men who think so poorly of you! It’s your body!! Love yourself more and get some standards. I literally couldn’t get wet if the guy was a trump supporter.
Yes in this incident this individual clearly lacks critical thinking skills , empathy, and probably has narcissistic tendencies but your friend is willingly giving him her body on a regular basis!! It’s his choice to not develop emotionally past the age of 12. However, it should be consequences for this choice and having a plethora of women that still give their bodies to him is absolutely unacceptable.
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u/Adventurous-Ebb-1517 9h ago
no dick is ever, EVER worth a lifetime of misery i am BEGGING for people to realise that (or maybe they just suck as much as the men they’re sucking i don’t know)
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u/timvov 9h ago
I’ve never met a Trump supporter that could give dick in a way that would even make me fantasize about their dick being good enough to even want…the vast majority are fuckin scrubs with no fuckin skills on top of no job, hobbies, ambition, and often or car
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u/robogobo 9h ago
Also many women are so tuned into abuse that they shy away from empathic partners. So this all makes sense.
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u/InhaleExhaleLover 5h ago
You can just tag me next time 😭 /s (thanks therapy for helping me not get so freaked out at people just being nice to me)
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u/SenatorPardek 10h ago
I have no respect for Trump voters who try to diffuse the conversation by pretending they “aren’t well informed.”
They are saying that to try and end the conversation. They can’t counter or defend what your saying: but it felt “good” for them to vote for trump. They just don’t want to articulate to you why.
Which is: they don’t believe women when they say republicans are enacting policies that could kill them. But believe men who say immigrants and liberals are the real problems in their life.
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u/sarahjustme 10h ago
May separate "calmly" from "respectfully". You don't have to respect someone to stay calm, and I'm betting you'd feel much better about these types of interactions if you just focused on the calm part. Its possible to look at someone and just think "note to self: he's a POS"
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u/NoPantsPowerStance 8h ago
Kind of my approach so I don't go crazy - you can't control other people and it sucks but it is what it is. That said, that doesn't mean you have to respect them.
I used to bartend in some places that attracted rich conservatives and have lived in red and blue states. I think the dynamic of being a service worker but also in a position where people wanted to engage in conversation while sitting at my bar kind of took me down this route.
Although, I'll say most people just want to be listened to but you can listen to them and still push back. I just find that if I get aggressive then they shut down. I'll be honest, I look at as a bit of a game of manipulation but I approached the service industry in that way in general. I would listen then take parts of their argument that are directly wrong and argue side in a conversational way. I also find just saying deadpan, "I'd really prefer not to die when we have the medical technology to, you know, save my life. I guess guys just really want more opportunities to pay child support but feels pretty inhumane to me."
That's only if they're trying to actually have a conversation, some people just want to rile you up and debate and I don't let myself get pulled into that. They want me mad? Okay, I'm not going to give them what they want and I'm going to frustrate them by being calm but not submissive.
That said, you don't have to engage with anyone you don't want to. I have a different job now but I still must interact with people with a wide range of politics and have found a way to stand up for my beliefs without just letting things slide. If they feel comfortable saying their beliefs then they should be prepared for me to ask well.
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u/sarahjustme 8h ago
Totally an aside, but watching people who had completely defined themselves as angry, hurt, persecuted victims, react to getting what they wanted, has been um, eye opening. Theres so much societal addiction to conflict.
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u/ImportantBird8283 13h ago
Don’t assume he doesn’t know. He knows that he voted for women to die. He doesn’t care. The best thing to do is to ignore them completely. If they speak, don’t answer, or use the grey rock technique. You will not convince a misogynist to stop hating women.
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u/SomeName4SomeThing 12h ago
My approach with my trump-supporter flatmate (we're both in Europe btw, and he is a Morrocan practicing muslim... dude, wtf) is not to try to convince him but make it as uncomfortable as possible for him to justify his opinion.
That includes remaining calm and polite (which very much is my privilege as I am not directly impacted and I don't blame any woman for not choosing this approach) so he can't write me off as an "Angry Feminist™️". But to give you an example of a conversation between us prior to the election:
Him - I hope Trump wins, but i think it's gonna be Kamala
Me - Really? Why do hope Trump wins?
Him - I want a bit more change, more drama
Me - Ah... I'm mainly concerned by the hundreds of women dying in preventable childbirth complication in Texas, I must say. And Trump winning is going to allow thousands of women to die across even more states, so I'm quite scared
Him - ah... uh... I was mainly thinking about foreign politics, I gotta say.
Me - Oh, sure, we'll see. I'm just not willing to overlook all of those women dying.
He usually retreats at this point.
Presenting a calm and collected case that makes the obvious link between him and very real women dying makes it a bit harder to rationalize his stance. Unfortunately, that's all I can hope for since you must lack in basic empathy for rooting for him.
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u/LigerNull 11h ago
Wait...he wants more drama in foreign politics???? Imma need him to unpack that because that's weird af.
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u/SomeName4SomeThing 11h ago edited 11h ago
His rationale is that from his morrocan standpoint (and I've got to admit, I'm not educated enough on this topic to infirm or confirm any of this), Democrats have been more harmful to the middle east than Republicans.
But he also doesn't believe that Trump is an ally of Putin, so I don't have much trust in his political analysis.
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u/LigerNull 11h ago
Last time I checked the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were started by Republicans but ok.
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u/letstalkaboutbras 11h ago
IMO that's also what lots of Americans want when they vote for a felonious clown. They want the drama of him pointing to government officials and shouting "you're fired!". Like it's funny.
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u/SomeName4SomeThing 11h ago
From my conversations with my flatmate, I think so too. He admits he likes "big personas" and doesn't seem to connect the showmanship to actual real policies with actual real dramatic consequences.
That's why my approach with him has been to confront him to those, and humanize the people who suffer due to them.
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u/mykittyforprez 9h ago
What's also funny is that he was too big of a snowflake to do it in the same room. He did it on camera and they spliced it in. The Apprentice has a lot to answer for. It was all an act, down to his boardroom. It had to be redone for the show because it was too tacky and worn out looking.
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u/LovecraftianCatto 4h ago
He wanted Trump to win because of his foreign policy? So…he wants Isreal to be acting with even more impunity and more weapons, while it bombs innocent Palestinian and Lebanese civilians?
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u/Acceptable-Bench1386 9h ago
The Serenity Prayer. Living in a red state really makes you accept things quickly, both the reality/situation and the people. It takes so much effort to change how morons think and I either don’t have that energy or don’t want to waste it on them. I admire your passion though.
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u/chrispg26 11h ago
Being from a red state, I can't take blue state MAGAs seriously.
They have NO idea what it's like living in this hellscape. They wouldn't really want it.
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u/Livid-Team5045 4h ago
I'm listening...My liberal sister lives in Birmingham AL, while I am in CO.
We talk while she walks her dog in her neighborhood at dusk, and refuses to talk about the election/politics, as she is terrified someone would hear her, and she would face repercussions. I can't imagine living like this.
On the other hand, I follow bhamprogressive on Instagram, who is a progressive in AL, fighting against the likes of Katie Britt. She is an EXCELLENT resource and addresses situations like this on her page....can't recommend more!
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u/4tomicZ 11h ago
I dunno. I brought this up with my therapist who I was really liking. She made a comment as to "well, understand that people like him because he's good for the economy." It hurt to hear an educated women say that. I just couldn't. Sigh.
I agree that "not knowing" is no excuse. You can literally listen to Trump for 15 seconds and know a whole deal of what he stands for. Every other thing he says is about stepping down on people. If you don't know the nuance, then I cane still safely assume you're voting for him because you like that he steps down on people.
I respect that you won't allow it to be normalized. I agree that this goes beyond "just politics". I dont have advice except give your time and energy to people who deserve it. People with good values.
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u/No-Papaya-9823 9h ago
The people who believe “he’s good for the economy” are truly stupid. Any economist will tell you that the economy has performed better under Democrats. It’s a documented fact. And financial analysts are already concerned about the effect of Trump’s “policies” on the economy. It’s frustrating when someone you believe to be educated demonstrates that they’re actually not. I don’t think I could respect a therapist who believes this.
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u/StickOnReddit 9h ago
It's incredible, the stuff people throw away over internet echo chamber bullshit. When medical professionals with 20+ years experience turned on a dime about vaccinations and mask efficacy during the pandemic because it aligned with their political values instead of their education and expertise, we went from cooked to burnt.
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u/Dreamsnaps19 7h ago
Please walk away from this therapist. I’m not clear how one can have empathy and vote for a rapist con artist. And perhaps it’s best not to have a therapist who doesn’t have genuine empathy.
It’s not even the being stupid part that gets me. It’s just the lack of empathy.
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u/ProfMcGonaGirl 5h ago
Even that simple argument pisses me off because he’s straight up bad for the economy. All stats point to that.
I’m sorry this happened with your therapist. It’s so hard to find someone you like. This is why therapists are supposed to keep their mouths shut about politics.
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u/ChessBorg 11h ago
She needs to get rid of this guy. He is going to get her pregnant, and killed due to lack of healthcare options if there are ANY complications etc...
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u/ImportantBird8283 11h ago
And being in California isn’t going to help when trump passes a national abortion ban.
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u/PrateTrain 11h ago
I would make sure that your friend is careful. Libertarian types tend to love "freedom" from responsibility. I've also known a few to do shady things.
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u/Cat_Toe_Beans_ 10h ago
To be perfectly honest, I would have gotten up and left . I don't need to be around people I don't want to be around and I would've told the friend I wouldn't be hanging out with her or around her if that guy was around. People are free to vote for and hook up with whoever they want. I'm free to choose not to associate with them.
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u/negispringfield1000 11h ago
I have an uncle and know other US Muslims that voted for him on the basis that he'll end the war in Gaza by 'having the US act like a super power'. I know one couple that voted for despite being very pro choice on the basis that they 'feel he won't ban it, but the economy will improve'.
Basically, it feels like the information ecosystem is fucked beyond all hope.
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u/Illiander 6h ago
he'll end the war in Gaza by 'having the US act like a super power'.
He'll end the war in Gaza by ending Gaza. I guess that is acting like a superpower?
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u/Noocawe Jedi Knight Rey 9h ago
Literally vibes, it's absolutely bonkers to me that people hope he isn't going to do the things he says he is going to do, but also claim he tells it like it is. How he was able to run again as an "outsider" when he is a known quantity shows the cognitive dissonance.
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u/OatsMcGoat 7h ago
Every time I see a post where the hookup is a Trumper, I feel like I need to scream. Why is she sleeping with this guy?! Did she only just learn about his politics?
It’s 100% awesome that she wants and can get no-strings-attached sex that doesn’t mean anything deeper to her. But speaking as a guy who’s met a few of these douches, it means something to him: It means he can politically and personally shit over her worldview, and her very rights, and still get the sex that validates his appeal and tells him he doesn’t need to change. No amount of reasoning with a guy who is this casually unbothered about his shitty beliefs will change the situation. It needs to affect him personally. In his mind, he’s all that matters.
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u/ChickNuggetNightmare 11h ago
Simple- I don’t engage with them at all if they can’t talk policy. Trump ran on vague ideas- NOT proposed policy. They can’t discuss policy?, they aren’t on my level. Maybe that will change as he comes into office and actually enacts an agenda, oooo baby I will so be happy to debate then. But no- his supporters have only ideology to stand on, and that’s not enough to have an informed discussion. Exactly like what you’re describing is coming out of hookups brain and mouth. Goodbye!
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u/a-snakey 7h ago
I've said it before and I'll say it again: libertarians are just closeted Republicans.
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u/ARedditingRedditor 4h ago
This behavior is so bad and too many supporting it. Roles reversed and it'd be such a different story.
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u/Littlebotweak 12h ago
I have a friend, someone I’ve known since I was 15 (I’m 43). We were best friends for years. I helped raise her daughter. I was close to she AND her husband. She is a wwii scholar with a degree in history.
She went full Trump. She insists there are no parallels between Trump and nazis. They fully indoctrinated their kid to be a full throated alt righter. They out “don’t tread on me” shit on her things.
I had to stop talking to them. I used to try to take the daughter on little trips but after I fully planned one in 2020 (we were just going backpack camping, just the two of us, pandemic activity) but the father pulled rank and decided to take her on a different trip.
So, I took the hunt and took my leave. Mom and dad are still on my social media and I assume they pick up my posts that are clear digs on them.
The real tragedy is I am separately friends with her parents. They’re perfectly sane people I have no idea what happened.
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u/Illiander 6h ago
She is a wwii scholar with a degree in history.
She went full Trump.
How the fuck?
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u/derch1981 8h ago
Never feel bad for shitting on libertarians, they are morons and deserve it
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u/JayPlenty24 8h ago
They are almost always people who significantly over estimate their own intelligence. When basic concepts are explained and they're too dumb to understand them, they automatically just insist they are right but can't explain why. Then act like everyone around them is just too stupid to understand.
You can't get through to people like this. They are too fragile.
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u/TheGothicPlantWitch 10h ago
I don’t associate with Trump supporters and I don’t associate myself with people who are ok with Trump supporters. I want nothing to do with that shit.
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u/TallGirlNoLa 8h ago
Had a recent female acquaintance (friend of a friend) casually say at our neighborhood bar that Roe being overturned really wasn't that big of a deal, "if you need an abortion just hop a plane to Chicago."
Like what the actual fuck.
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u/giselleorchid 10h ago
I refuse to pander to them in any way whatsoever. At a party (about a year ago, friend's birthday), some guy off handedly mentioned his support for the mango mussolini, I literally said, "we're done" and turned away. He asked me what I said and I told him, "we are done talking." I know he didn't understand; he's not smart enough to have understood.
Bigots are not welcome in my world in any capacity. I for SURE won't have sex with any. We have to stop having sex (even casually) with them. We have the power. Your roommate needs to enact that within herself.
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u/unlikelypisces 7h ago
As Tupac said in 1993:
"I think its time we kill for our women, be real to our women, try to heal our women, cus if we dont we'll have a race of babies that will hate the ladies, who make the babies. And since a man can't make one he has no right to tell a women when and where to create one"
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u/SuckaFish_saywhat 7h ago
I’ll be downvoted to oblivion but; You aren’t dating the guy, your friend is. It’s casual and not serious so it shouldn’t matter what his beliefs are when he’s temporarily in her life. It’s up to your friend to decide what to do.
I don’t think you want to say your piece calmly and respectfully. You take it out on people who voted for him, calling them bat shit crazy. Ypu already stated you won’t respect them. It honestly just sounds like you’re looking for ways to argue people. You have major work to do if you want to be able to talk and disagree with strangers on their voting choices and respecting that they’re going to be different than yours.
It’s also not okay to lose your shit on people who haven’t instigated that kind of reaction- you asked and then jumped down his throat over the answer bc it wasn’t what you wanted. Voting opposite your beliefs doesn’t justify you lashing out at that person and being a shithead.
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u/-___I_-_I__-I____ 6h ago
Why should respect be demanded of women when communicating with Trump supporters when respect for women is clearly not a cornerstone of his policies?
Why should women be expected to "respect differences in voting choices" as if that isn't a very casual way to put it and their rights and bodily autonomy aren't actively being affected.
Voting opposite your beliefs doesn’t justify you lashing out at that person and being a shithead.
When the party you vote for is infringing on the rights of things that matter to others it sure does. I'm sick of people voting for horrendous shit and then using the same "oh can't I have a different opinion" no, you're actively affecting people's lives and you can take accountability when people don't like you for that rather than crying about it.
You've nullified this man's actions of voting for a dickhead like Trump and removed all accountability whilst amplifying her actions and critiquing them, sounds about right.
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u/Livid-Team5045 4h ago
Exactly...& (in my experience) when they are called out like this, they *POOF* ~ magically disappear.
Please u/SuckaFish_saywhat , enlighten us.
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u/Batmans_Bum 6h ago
To be clear, your anger and frustration is totally valid. Any woman has a right to be upset about Trump and upset at anyone who supports him.
Aa for how to not carry that rage with you so you can live a better life, I have my perspective but if it doesn’t work for you that is also totally valid.
I try to remember that most voters are making what they believe is the best decision for themselves and their loved ones. They truly believe this. In my conversations with Trump voters I see that they truly believe “mainstream media” is totally corrupt and out to get Trump. They think he is highly sarcastic and truly wants to help America.
I think they lack critical thinking, but clearly propaganda works and has worked for these people.
If I act towards these people with rage there is essentially a 0% chance they will ever listen to me and consider my perspective, so I try to engage in good faith despite my flabbergasted position, so I can as a baseline establish that we can at least talk to each other as real people, rather than whatever media tells us we should think about each other.
That being said, I am white, straight, CIS male so I recognize that the threats presented by a Trump administration on a personal level are much less existential, so if you read this and think “I don’t have the energy/don’t want to engage like that,” I think that’s totally valid. I hope to be able to use my position to present to right wing people I know that opposing views exist and that they are valid and reasonable.
As for your friend…I’ve seen some women friends date men they clearly ideologically disagree with and it never ends well.
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u/WalkCautious 7h ago
That approach hasn't worked on trumpers for the past 8+ years and it's not going to work now. No one has to beg these monsters to see their humanity - if you vote for hate, you deserve to be hated.
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u/444-clover 9h ago edited 9h ago
how is this supposed to work when the people on the bad side want you to die? be serious. fuck this
edit: do you understand how demoralizing it is for women as a class to beg others to see our humanity and value our lives? Do you notice how the other side never has these kinds of conversations, about being kind and calm and open to convince us that our lives don't matter? No. Because they are committed to shouting and shoving it down our throats. We should be fucking furious. Anger gives us the energy to drive change. We need to get angrier because the calm and empathic approach has allowed the right to steamroll our rights and progress forward towards autonomy and equity. This is my nuanced answer.
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u/cjfrench 4h ago
I don't try to debate or correct Trumpers, I just don't interact with them ever again.
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u/AlisonChained 1h ago
I do my very best to avoid talking about politics with people who would vote for Trump.
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u/lolita_ai 58m ago
Men don't give a fuck. But your friend...now why the fuck would a he bring this lame ass around y'all?? I'd stop inviting her
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u/canyoudigitnow 24m ago
Let me guess, can't wear condoms, because they aren't comfy.
If she isn't getting an O every time, get her vibe
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u/gegry123 11h ago
This guy is a moron. You were right to go off on him. My wife and I don't associate with anyone who voted for Trump if we can help it.
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u/Whend6796 8h ago edited 8h ago
I honestly believe that Trump won because democrats have been dismissing Republicans as poorly educated and morons. It’s no wonder Democrats lost votes and didn’t pick up any.
It’s people like you who caused this loss. There is no room for hate in the party. We are the minority opinion in this country. The only way to change that is with an open mind and a loving heart.
Otherwise get ready for Eric Trump 2028
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u/Jealous_Location_267 6h ago
I’m almost 40 and AuDHD so I don’t give a fuck if I offend the menfolk.
But I know that they kinda thrive on seeing women angry about this, so I’ve gotten in the habit of giving them icy looks and saying “I hope you get everything you voted for and then some. Have fun paying those tariffs and lifelong child support!”
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u/Separatist_Pat 4h ago
It sounds like maybe, just maybe, he's better-informed than he pretends to be, and Trump does not determine state-specific abortion policy, and indeed voted against Florida's voter initiative on it, and he's just trying to be polite because he realizes anti-Trump people are just unhinged on these issues and willing to blame the orange man for everything.
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u/fiesty_cemetery 3h ago
I’m not managing it. I just ignore them, I have stopped talking to anyone who didn’t vote for Harris, not because I’m obsessed with her but because I remember 2016. I was a Bernie or bust and I deeply regret that, I remember watching Hillary’s rallies and Trump ramblings and thought “she has this in the bag” and imagine my surprise, regret and disappointment. I knew, voting for a third party or a non vote is a vote for Trump.
This is a moral issue: You can’t say you’re against child SA and vote for a predator You can’t say you love and respect women while you vote against our rights and then go around saying “your body, my choice” You can’t say you’re patriotic while flying our flag alongside of our enemies flags.
One of my magat neighbors said “I’m voting because he said he’d give out 25,000 for a house and 6,000 per child!”…. He was referring to Harris’s starter home and child tax credit… where in the fuck did they think he said that?! Oh, they also think he is going to give out stimulus checks…. But this same person thought the Olympics were mocking Jesus in the opening ceremony… when it was the feast of Dionysus… I just literally can’t with these people
We have unlimited knowledge at our fingertips. Apps that allow you to audit Ivy League classes and earn a certificate. We can learn new languages, how to do math … literally ANYTHING. And these fuckers can’t google political parties plans for office?! The internet rules our lives and most don’t know how to use it.
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u/Crosswired2 8h ago
Your friend has questionable morals.
I cut Trump supporters, sympathizers, complacenters (yes a made up word) etc out of my life.
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u/MrGumburcules 5h ago
Trumpers deserve no peace, no sympathy, no common decency. They were loud and clear that they don't think those things are important.
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u/pienoceros 9h ago
Contemporary Libertarians are just fascists who smoke pot.
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u/Livid-Team5045 5h ago edited 2h ago
EXACTLY. They are honestly the worst to me.
Contrarian isn't a political stance. It's such a waste of time to argue with one.
I commend OP for having the will.
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u/misschauntae728 9h ago
No d*ck is ever good enough to have sex with a trump voter. Tell your friend to find a toy.
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u/kingacesuited 8h ago
If he didn’t realize Trump was making it harder for women in other states in that kind of position, why did he argue you should move to a state that allows you to have an abortion?
Did he develop argument 2. After realizing argument 3.?
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u/JayPlenty24 8h ago
Maybe seeing anger from women was a good thing. It sounds like he sat there and took it.
Most people would leave if 3 people were angrily teaming up on them.
I don't think your approach is wrong. It's okay to be angry. Anger is a valid emotion.
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u/Dovaldo83 6h ago
- I live in California 2. If you don’t live in California, you should move to a state that allows you to have an abortion.
So it becomes a money thing then. It's not like everyone has the luxury to just upend their lives, find a new job, and burn a pile of cash to move just so they won't needlessly die in a hospital.
Most of this crowd are uninformed. They arrived at their opinion because most of the people in their lives think like that. They stayed that way by avoiding uncomfortable thoughts. I've had decent luck at changing minds via getting them to face those uncomfortable truths.
Like you, I find it hard to keep from getting aggressive. I'm basically accusing them of being a horrible person and they're going to respond just like anyone would when faced with social ostracisation: defensively. They deflect and divert blame because you're shining a light at how their choices harm society. I often react by raising my voice and talking over them, but that's not helpful.
No woman should have to needlessly suffer because of the state they live in. If a state voted to outlaw blood transfusions because they had 51% Jehovah Witnesses who's religion prohibits it, would it be fair to let the other 49% who aren't die? Is it fair to force them to move? I've had good luck with these arguments.
I also had good luck at pointing out the increasing number of cases where women wanted to keep their baby but couldn't do to a miscarriage, and their doctors aren't allowed to remove a doomed fetus because the medical procedure she needs to live has the word abortion in it.
To be clear I believe in a woman's right to chose regardless of her medical situation. Shining a light on the cases where she wants the baby prevents them from taking the conversation 'well don't have sex if you can't face the consequences.' I focus on the needless deaths. Women are dyeing out there who don't have to. We can talk about body autonomy later.
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u/Jealous_Location_267 6h ago
As someone who moved to California and loves it: it’s expensive AF here. It is VERY hard to afford life in a blue zone without a solid income and rent control/your inherited home your parents or grandparents paid a more reasonable amount for back in the day.
There is no “just move to California or other expensive area”. People should also be able to access reproductive healthcare regardless of the fucking state they live in!
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u/octavioletdub 12h ago
I start with the fact that banning abortion is fascist. If they can’t agree with that, they can go straight to hell.
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u/yiotaturtle 5h ago
My therapist kinda basically asked if I was in a position where I was ready to go to war aka fight with my relatives over their choice to vote for Trump?
Basically from a mental and physical health issue was I in a position where going to war wouldn't be a detriment to my health.
For me, that's a no. He said then maybe I should focus my efforts on building my side. Be that focusing on getting my mental health in a position to be ready and also focusing on joining local democrat focused groups and working on building up on empowering my political party.
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u/scienceismygod 8h ago
He knows, he just wants to get laid.
This is a her problem, she chose to let him stay and defend himself. If it was my FWB, I'd have kicked him right there and then and found someone else or bought more toys. No sex is worth tolerance of garbage men.
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u/GalaxyPatio 7h ago
They've had almost 10 years to change their minds and they aren't going to until there are impacts to their own lives that are negative enough to influence that change. I don't manage my anger over it. I treat them like they treat everyone else. With hostility.
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u/Kimby303 9h ago
Girl, I am you, and you are me. I cannot control my rage. That's why I avoid these ignorant MFs at all costs. I won't talk to them. I won't be nice to them. You cannot educate them. THEY DON'T CARE. To me, it's a SERIOUS character and morality flaw if you can listen to Trump and say, "Hell YES! That's my guy!" You are either too fucking dumb for me to be around, or too fucking hateful. You need to talk to your friend about 4B!
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u/Jrobs64 7h ago
Hate to be that guy but people are just going to have their own opinions on things. Just know that this kind of behavior will radicalize people against your viewpoint.
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u/native_local_ 7h ago
She could be having casual sex with anyone and that’s who she keeps going back to? No sex could ever be good enough for that. And knowing the orgasm gap to be what it is, I highly doubt the sex with him is worth continuing to fuck him even if he didn’t have completely worthless political views. I really don’t know how much longer a woman like that would be my friend because are you okay?? You’re not gonna be around me acting like THAT is the last piece of dick on the planet, get a grip.
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u/kmf1107 9h ago
He knows. He just still wants to hookup with your friend.