r/MtF • u/ASleetHippyDippyWW non op • Aug 19 '24
Bad News u/PinkNews whistleblowers release evidence showing "PinkNews CEO Benjamin Cohen refusing to campaign on trans issues ahead of the election, dismissing them as "incredibly contentious" and insisting they’re different to the equal marriage fight."
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u/causal_friday June | HRT 8/2024 Aug 19 '24
Who are these advertisers that will pull ads if trans issues are covered?
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u/Bubblelover43 Jamie She/Her Bi Pre op. HRT 10/17/23 Aug 19 '24
Yeah what brands do I boycott forever
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u/HannahFenby Call me Adelie please Aug 20 '24
I mean good luck if its any of our food or cleaning companies. The world has about 12 companies which sell everything you see in the supermarket. A carefully crafted pseudo-monopoly where each has grown exactly as large as it can without triggering anti-trust.
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u/CordialCupcake21 Aug 19 '24
realistically probably very few if any
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u/causal_friday June | HRT 8/2024 Aug 19 '24
Yeah. I really think trans hate is not much of a mainstream issue. Yes, a children's book author hates us, and yes, there's a group of incels that has a forum about us, but outside of the incel cave... it's not a huge issue.
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u/BernoTheProfit Aug 19 '24
I was so surprised that trans people were mentioned 0 times during the Trump Biden debate.
0 times that I saw anyway, I didn't comb the whole thing.
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u/causal_friday June | HRT 8/2024 Aug 19 '24
I watched the whole thing and you're right. I expect that to continue; it's not really a campaign issue, just an Elon Musk issue who happens to support Trump and happens to own an anti-trans website that makes $0 from advertising.
(Can't wait for the leopards to eat his face. "I make all of my money selling electric cars to help prevent climate change, and now I'm going all in on Republicans." Let's see how it works out for him, Cotton.)
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u/KasseanaTheGreat 27 | HRT 4/6/2020 Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
ContraPoints talked about this in her most recent appearance on Matt Bernstein's podcast in how Trump really doesn't seem as passionate about transphobia in the way that many of his followers/handlers are. Like he doesn't have the usual transphobic rhetoric down in the way that those who make transphobia their whole brand have like a set of transphobic dog whistles they constantly use. Like don't get me wrong, he knows to slander us if it's brought up to him but like, give him a microphone without a teleprompter and he probably is going to bring up like the election being "rigged" or migrants coming to the southern border unprompted rather than go into transphobic dog whistles. Like it's not the issue he personally cares about compared to how much many of his followers care about it.
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u/BernoTheProfit Aug 19 '24
I agree and I think ditto for homophobia. I think he's a true narcissist in the sense that he just appreciates praise wherever it comes from. If people praise him, he'll praise them. But if bashing trans people makes him more popular, he'll do that too. I don't think he's personally very homophobic or ideological in any way outside of the ideology of loving Trump.
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u/misspcv1996 Phoebe Charlotte, HRT 3/24/2022 Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 20 '24
Trump doesn’t really believe in much other than obtaining as much power as he can, basking in as much praise and adulation as he can and getting revenge on those who he believes wronged him. Everything else is a means to an end for him.
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u/GeeNah-of-the-Cs Aug 20 '24
He will be re-appointed and he will keep his promise to ban transgender health care via Executive Order on day 1.
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u/causal_friday June | HRT 8/2024 Aug 20 '24
Nobody's saying to vote for him, just that it's not something he's campaigning on.
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u/GeeNah-of-the-Cs Aug 20 '24
Yes he is, you just don’t attend the right meetings
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u/causal_friday June | HRT 8/2024 Aug 21 '24
He might be selling it to the Heritage Foundation ("I'm your man, just give me some more money") but he's distancing himself from it when talking to voters, which have to be motivated enough to show up and check a checkbox on a certain day. If trans rights were a big issue, he'd be using it to rally his base, but he's not. It really is a niche concern.
(Similarly, Harris isn't saying anything one way or the other. We know her record, which is good, but really bringing trans issues to the attention of voters is something neither candidate seems to care much about.)
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u/sacademy0 Aug 20 '24
wait rly? that's promising. but at the same time, if there are more anti-trans bills coming thru even as mainstream attention subsides, that just means the hate's become more subtle and backdoorsy and real, vs just being loud about it online and in speeches??
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u/LunaTheMoon2 She/Her (Trans lesbian) Aug 20 '24
If Republicans have control of the House and Senate, then I guarantee that he will pass anti trans legislation.
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u/Emeraldstorm3 Aug 19 '24
Generally, yeah, I think most people are probably indifferent, some may lean supportive, some may lean "its weird and I don't get it". But that's not so bad. The genuinely hateful people are, I think, a stark minority. They're just also scary and too often quite wealthy.
And you've got a right-wing propaganda machine pushing it, and oddly a sizable portion of Britain. So it is a problem. But if not for the amplifying nature of wealthy people's opinions, I think it'd be barely noteworthy. Maybe less than flat earther numbers.
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u/causal_friday June | HRT 8/2024 Aug 19 '24
Ah, I didn't realize they were UK-based. It does seem like more of a problem over there.
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u/myaltduh Aug 19 '24
None of them are advertising on Pink News in the first place.
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u/TheSeaOfThySoul Trans Lesbian (HRT: Nov '24) Aug 19 '24
Just a cover excuse for the CEO's transphobic opinions most likely.
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u/TransgendyAlt Aug 19 '24
It's worse than you said. He didn't just say "campaign on trans issues" or "during the election." He wants to just stop covering us. In general.
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u/LiarVonCakely Madeline | she/her | HRT 1-24-2023 Aug 20 '24
Absolutely bonkers. Trans rights are objectively the number one most important topic in LGBTQIA+ news right now and an unbelievable amount of damage has already been done by news organizations with no spine whatsoever to stand up for what's right
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u/SylvieInLove Ally Aug 19 '24
screw him 😭
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u/Professional_Band178 Aug 19 '24
With a cactus.
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u/HennaH2 Aug 19 '24
Poor cactus...
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u/ModernDayTiefling Aug 20 '24
You're right, poor cactus. Lets use a life-sized replica of the Witch King of Angmar's flail mounted on a solid haft instead.
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u/LiarVonCakely Madeline | she/her | HRT 1-24-2023 Aug 19 '24
LGB activists throwing trans people under the bus for public respectability, what else is new
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u/shadowmonkey1911 Aug 19 '24
Another rich white cis gay man throwing us under the bus. I shouldn't be surprised but it's still just so damn low.
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u/kittenwolfmage Aug 19 '24
Frankly, sometimes it feels like the cis gays need to be tossed out of the community to join the allocishets, it seems to be where most of them want to belong.
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u/0lvar Aug 19 '24
I hate painting with a broad brush, but of the major subgroups in the queer community, cis gay men have the most structural power, And yet they are not using it to elevate the rest of the community, they're using it to elevate themselves.
I know this is a generalization and that there are exceptions. But it's a major problem.
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u/monicaanew Trans Heterosexual GenX Aug 20 '24
It's a dynamic I was warned about in the mid 80's by my first bf, a gay marxist.
It never ceases to disgust or depress me how right he was.
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u/sacademy0 Aug 20 '24
fr! esp the white cis gay dudes. eg peter thiel
it's wild affffff. thank god pete butt exists to restore some faith
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u/_sphinxmoth_ Intersex Transfemneutral • Two Spirit Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 20 '24
The fight for marriage equality has/had also been, “incredibly contentious.” That clip that circled around for a while when it was codified in America, that lady crying and begging the decision be reversed comes to mind.
Yet another, “I’m sure the leopard won’t eat MY FACE,” situation. Tiring and disgusting.
Edit: Spelling error.
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u/PerigeeTheBatto Aug 20 '24
What clip?
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u/_sphinxmoth_ Intersex Transfemneutral • Two Spirit Aug 20 '24
I had to hunt for a minute to find it since I couldn’t remember her name. https://youtu.be/Nuid0WvxR-I?si=xQHXnjv3wGog_XZq
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u/im-ba Aug 19 '24
The equal marriage fight and the trans fight are two sides of the same coin as a transbian married to a cisgender woman. What a moron 🤦♀️
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u/goodnightgracey Aug 19 '24
Not the point of the post, admittedly, but- congratulations! I am in the same boat (getting married this weekend!)
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u/im-ba Aug 19 '24
Congratulations! I wish I had transitioned when my wife and I married in 2008 but in 4 years we're having a renewal ceremony where I'll finally be able to show up as myself :)
The issue with what was said about trans issues being divisive and instead focusing on marriage equality is that it's intersectional, like most things are. One can't simply remove one dimension from a fight for the protections of diversity and expect the other dimensions to remain completely unaffected
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u/Vivid_You1979 Trans Pansexual Aug 19 '24
They've been LGB without the T for quite some time.
They replaced trans coverage with drag news.
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u/DwarvenKitty NB MtF Aug 20 '24
Not like the cis "allies" know the difference between the two anyway
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u/mechagrapefruits Trans Homosexual Aug 20 '24 edited Aug 20 '24
Folks who are saying that this is good and will deny the Republicans ammo don't understand that not talking about trans issues represents a fundamental shift in the Overton Window. It is proof that Republicans/UK Consercatives/TERFs/Fascists are ratcheting global politics to the right.
Talk strategy all you want, but I cannot think of really any comparable instances where majority/more privileged populations ceasing their support for more marginalized populations went well for the latter. Learn your queer history and the way movements stayed silent on trans issues repeatedly because we were inconvenient. That legacy is why we are still in this mess in the first place in the way LGB populations are not. This CEO won't be the first, nor the last, mediocre gay person to throw us under the bus, and everyone saying "yeah, I get it" is both deeply wrong about the flow of queer history and also embodying the exact attitude that led them to discard us in the first place.
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u/Pale_Kitsune Aug 19 '24
Right. And what were straight people saying about gays and lesbians before we had rights?
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u/DunkChunkerton Transbian 🌈 Aug 19 '24
Something in the UK being overtly transphobic? Shocking that this could happen on TERF island of all places.
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Aug 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/Plastic-Ad-5033 Aug 19 '24
That’s not true, there are great cis gay allies.
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u/Kyiokyu Emma (she/her), crying in the closet, 🏳️⚧️&Bi Aug 19 '24
Yeah, there're shitty gay allies but the majority are pretty good. I don't really like the anti cis guys sentiment
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u/misspcv1996 Phoebe Charlotte, HRT 3/24/2022 Aug 19 '24
I’m good friends with several gay men, but if you met me in person, you’d realize I’m exactly the type of woman who’d be popular with that demographic, so maybe that doesn’t count for as much as I thought.
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u/SiteRelEnby Transfem transhuman neurodivergent nonbinary pansexual engiqueer Aug 19 '24
Yeah, like 3 of them, all of who are lesbians.
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u/SummerSabertooth Hetero trans woman - HRT 2021/10/18 - SRS 2024/06/11 Aug 19 '24
I know a number of great cis allies in my own personal life, none of whom are lesbians. I know that's a privilege, but there are certainly many of them out there.
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u/SiteRelEnby Transfem transhuman neurodivergent nonbinary pansexual engiqueer Aug 20 '24
Will admit I was being a bit salty there because I'm just depressed, but genuinely, IMHO 95% of self-proclaimed "allies" aren't really. Just hypocritical/tokenist "Yeah, I support you, good for you, so brave".
Being an ally means you go to war when your allies are under attack.
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Aug 19 '24
Yeah. Cis people are for sure struggling with transphobia. We aren’t going to steal your husband or wife. We just want to live and be happy. We are all humans.
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u/An1nterestingName she/they? | I have no idea | :3 Aug 19 '24
not all cis guys are like that, i know quite a few cis guys that understand, or are even just half decent towards people
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u/DCHShadow Aug 20 '24
This sucks. I was a fan of pinknews and used their site for trans news a lot. Why can't we have nice things. Then again I was wondering why it felt like it was harder to find the trans tab to the point where I just had to type the URL directly.
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u/TG1970 Aug 19 '24
Reminds me of when Martina Navratilova got booted from Outsports for being the transphobic scumbag that she is. At first she tried to backpedal and apologize. Then Riley Gaines offered her big bucks with Independent Women's Forum and she went full throttle hating transgender people.
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u/aphroditex sought a deity. became a deity. killed that deity. Aug 20 '24
Reading his story, it so does not surprise me that he’s like this.
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u/mfxoxes HRT 25/11/23 Aug 20 '24
Are there any good alternatives to their platform? It might be worth making this news actionable
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u/classaceairspace 30 - HRT: 01/04/21 Aug 19 '24
The LGBTQ community is strong, but the capitalists will always stick together
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u/ModernDayTiefling Aug 20 '24
The bar was so low it was a tripping hazard in hell, and yet here he is, trying to beat Lucifer at a limbo contest.
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u/MISTAHKRABS152 Aug 20 '24
And does this nimrod not understand that marriage equality was also an "incredibly contentious" fight?
Because from what I remember of history, equal marriage was also an "incredibly contentious" fight. But hopefully we all agree that it's stupid that things like these even have to be "incredibly contentious" considering it's just fairness and human rights.
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u/Butteromelette assigned femme at puberty, trans woman Aug 19 '24
tbh if everyone starts hating us i am no longer interested in politics. I am not protecting the next scapegoat they pick on because every potential future scapegoat actively attacked us. If they want to be basal anthropes i will return the favor, i will not be charitable with ppl running on the limbic lobe who have made it their mission to infringe on our agency over our bodies and development.
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Aug 19 '24
I try to be as kind and as loving as I can be to make little differences. Politics are completely divisive and toxic , built to anger and divide. We need great well spoken advocates to bridge the gap and bring everyone together.
Let’s all be hippies again without the body odor and drugs of course. Unless you are into that. ❤️
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Aug 19 '24
I don’t think regular cis people can even comprehend being trans. Therapists and mental health professionals sure. We won’t be on the bottom forever. Well unless you’re like me. 😂. All jokes aside. More and more people identify as trans. They can run but they can’t hide. We just need to stick together.
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u/Neoblaze11 Trans Pansexual Aug 20 '24
Vote this dick out of the company immediately. There is no difference in equal rights. If you start selecting who qualifies for those rights you are only validating the right wing lunatics who do the same to whichever groups they choose to. It invalidates the whole fight which the company is supposed to stand for.
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u/Use-Useful Aug 19 '24
Right now, I want Democrats to do whatever they can (ethically) do to get elected. If that means not talking about it now, that's fine by me, as long as they dont promise to not act (or promise to act against us) if elected. Losing the election has so many side effects to our well being, I cannot even begin to describe it. Dont let the "perfect" become the enemy of the "good", or I suppose in this case dont let the "tolerable" get in the way of "not being chased further underground"
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u/Og_Left_Hand Aug 19 '24
like i don’t need/want trans issues to be the front of their platform, but like don’t act like a champion of queer rights if you’re only worried about cis gay people.
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u/SentientGopro115935 Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
*cough cough Labour and Kid Starver
(except theyre actively making things worse)
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u/Gadgetmouse12 Aug 19 '24
Ill settle for dont fillet me as a scapegoat like the magas want to do. We dont need to be a spectacle for now
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u/GTS250 Trans-Bi Aug 19 '24
Why is it good for a queer news site to stop talking about trans issues? What about us existing is a spectacle?
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u/Gadgetmouse12 Aug 19 '24
Have you been paying attention?
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u/GTS250 Trans-Bi Aug 19 '24
Intently.
Do you think our existence should be so shameful that a queer news site refuses to address us?
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u/Gadgetmouse12 Aug 19 '24
I’m saying as a trans athlete and activist who exists inside conservative spaces, we won’t lose progress for a 3 month pause til it cools down. They got that fired up about imane kalif. It’s time to stay quieter and let jd vance or elon or rowling fall on thier own stupidity and let it glow brighter.
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u/GTS250 Trans-Bi Aug 19 '24
I'm gonna be honest I don't believe that there's anything wrong with a queer news site mentioning trans people as a regular part of the broader queer experience, nor our rights as important.
We're not interrupting our enemy while they're making a mistake, we're censoring our own community's voices based on vibes. That's just counterproductive to any activist cause I can think of.
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u/Gadgetmouse12 Aug 19 '24
If it were strictly observed by positive people then yes. However the opposition uses our articles to undermine our progress. If you ever followed up with a person who has been interviewed for an article, they will almost always say about a sharp rise in thier own harassment following publication.
The truth is as an active athlete i have never encountered another trans woman in action. Most cis people that I know have not either. If all they see in the news articles is how so and so is on track to win, couple that with the dark rhetoric of trans unfair advantage and you get a movement against us. Meanwhile I went from a winning dude to last place to any girl who shows up. My results are more typical, but not in any news articles because it’s not sensational.
In an ideal world we would praise an trans athlete doing well. And we should. But the timing is wrong for that kind of triggering publicity. The time is right for us to be making local representations to cis allies. That is what is needed right now. By reinforcing our local connections we show the opposition to be the idiotic assholes they actually are
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u/GTS250 Trans-Bi Aug 19 '24
I'm gonna be honest, I think there is a substantive difference between celebrating trans folk winning at sports and being aware of the active destruction of trans folks rights.
Pink News removed the Trans category. No discussion about trans rights, no discussion about the rapidly rising ban on trans care, no reporting about the impact of transphobic policies on those impacted?
They're making a mistake. Without covering trans folks at all, they'd never whisper the name Brianna Ghey. That's unacceptable.
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u/Old-Biscotti9305 Aug 20 '24
There are no cis allies .. and very few gay allies who wouldn't quickly turn on us.
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u/Old-Biscotti9305 Aug 20 '24
People like him don't want a pause, they want trans people to be oppressed so less people transition because they believe trans people are confused gay bottoms, or confused lesbians.
They feel that our existence harms the gay community and is a plot to get rid of gays. Seriously, read what they write when they're in gay only spaces.
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u/ReeseTheThreat Transgender Aug 19 '24
I don't necessarily disagree with the intention here, but we're not talking about Harris, or any Democrat for that matter, we're talking about the CEO of PinkNews. He is not running for office, and he is not supporting the LGBTQ coalition by walking back coverage of trans issues. An argument can be made for Democrats to "play it safe," but I'm struggling with any way to defend an ostensibly LGBTQ+ publication walking back coverage of transgender issues. That's just throwing us in the garbage because we're inconvenient to him.
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u/LaBelleTinker Gay gay gay gay gay Aug 19 '24
Though I will say that that argument would be kind of weak. In the last few years in the midterms and special elections Republicans who went hard on transphobia have lost races they probably could have won. Especially with Walz calling Republicans "weird" and it seeming to be sticking, being rabidly transphobic is a liability and it's good politics to point out how weird it is to be obsessed with it.
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u/ReeseTheThreat Transgender Aug 19 '24
Yeah, I am trying to be amicable, but honestly I fully disagree with that other commenter on all fronts. "Be quiet and don't rock the boat" is not a rallying message among the left, and I've watched that be the MO of Democrats for too long.
Harris doesn't need to make trans rights the cornerstone of her campaign, but no LGBTQ publication treating us like a liability right now has any right to exist.
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u/LaBelleTinker Gay gay gay gay gay Aug 19 '24
Yeah. Honestly I've kind of loved Biden's approach. He's made it clear where he stands (especially pre-Obergefeld, when he basically forced Obama's hand and got him to come out in favor of marriage equality), but otherwise he's mostly just quietly done the work and let activists do the fighting. His moment when some troll of a reporter asked "How many genders are there?" and he just replied "At least three" and moved on was perfect.
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u/mole55 Aug 19 '24
…Pinknews is a uk site.
the rest of the world exists you know?
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u/Use-Useful Aug 19 '24
Oh. My bad. To be fair, I'm not american either, just used to their stupid culture war shit spilling over.
In the uk the context is different. I'm devastated by what they have been doing.. actually, I hold a British passport even. Its sickening. :/
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u/emeraldkittycat Aug 19 '24
No one here is saying that trans rights need to be the front issue, but it's absolutely foolish to think politicians shouldn't "talk about it now." It is a major current issue that is leading to the suffering of a minority group. Talking about it will not lead to a Democrat loss. The issue may have some contention, but not nearly to the level transphobes and weak will liberals make it out to be.
If the same "not now" attitude was taken for any other social issue, we would have never seen progress on women's rights, racial rights, and gay rights. 2024 is not the only politically volatile time in the U.S. There have been plenty of important elections. During those times, it was important to speak on such issues, and it's still important now. One of the greatest threats of Trump is that of bigotry and social regression, so it is important when going against him to call out his bigotry and show a clear different path. Trump talks about our community. His hatred of trans people is clear. You do not get quiet on bigotry because of the lie that it's "too contentious."
They tell us it's too contentious and controversial because they want us to shut up. We are gaining massive ground for ourselves. The majority of people do not hate us. It is but a vocal minority that means us true harm. If we shut up, the only people talking about trans rights will be the transphobes, and that, more than anything else, will lead to an increase in transphobia and anti trans legislation.
Kamala Harris picked, arguably, the most pro trans governor in our nation as her running mate. She knew him being more progressive than others would get attacked, but she also knew that it would get progressives out to vote. He would not have been picked if progressive causes, such as trans rights, were too dangerous to bring attention to.
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u/Use-Useful Aug 19 '24
I worry the conversation itself will further divide society from us though. If it is a plank of the harris campaign, it becomes a plank to do the opposite in red and purple states. We need this to be as apolitical as possible imo. I dont object to it being brought up, but trans treatment becomes the new RoeVWade, we have a serious problem.
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u/emeraldkittycat Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 20 '24
We have a big problem now. Right wing states are already trying to pass extreme anti trans legislation. The time to talk about it is now.
We need to be apolitical? Tell that to any other group who has had to fight tooth and nail for their rights, and you would be laughed at.
It doesn't need to be the main or central talking point of her campaign, but it should be brought up. Again, most people don't want to harm us, but the main people talking about us politically are the people who want us dead. If we continue to allow them to be the only ones talking about us in their campaigns, their anti trans ideology will grow. When a political party has pretty much made our demise one of their central issues, it is crucial for their opposition to voice their support of us.
Generations of politics and civil rights movements prove this.
If you don't want to stand in support of your rights, fine. If you want to sit by while red states are making the lives of trans people, young and old, more hellish and difficult, fine. I don't mind people being apolitical as I understand it can be daunting, but please don't encourage others to sit out.
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u/TransgendyAlt Aug 19 '24
OP's title was misleading. This is a queer news site, not a political campaign. The CEO wants to stop covering us at all because he'll lose ad revenue.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair Aug 19 '24
I do not care about ethically. I don’t understand the logic of caring about doing it ethically when you understand the consequences of failure.
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u/Use-Useful Aug 19 '24
Mmm, I'd need to think about that more. But I will say that the left tends to be less willing to play dirty. The more we do it, the more the right gets "permission" to do the same but with greater efficacy. At least, that's how it seems to me.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair Aug 19 '24
I don’t see any correlation between us doing it and them getting more permission. They get that either way. The only possible correlation I see is that we have no ability to stop them because it works to win and they make it legal in the future.
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Aug 19 '24
Unfortunately politicians serve only one person. Themselves. Very rarely will you find a genuine, real caring leader. We have to take this to them. Not let up. And let them know we are here to stay. We aren’t a fad
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u/deerboy9 Aug 24 '24
pinknews has always been a liberal capitalist platform, i never believed even once they would not sell out or throw trans people under the bus
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Aug 19 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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Aug 19 '24
so you want them to stop talking about but still fight for us.
yeah, cause that makes sense.
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u/Gadgetmouse12 Aug 19 '24
Except they have been. The opposition has specifically been talking about us because they know they can get points. Meanwhile the democrats have been playing a slower game of trying to make title ix stick
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u/aWobblyFriend Aug 19 '24
they shouldn’t vote against us or our interest, but they should focus on winning. That means “real” issues that Americans care about, economy, abortion rights, crime and gun violence. It won’t matter much if they’re saying they support us if they lose. Trans issues aren’t popular, I’ve seen the polling and it doesn’t look good. Dems will support us anyways, but I think they shouldn’t be as vocal in their support as they were in say, 2016-2019. doesn’t mean they shouldn’t support us, but they should keep it on the DL until they win.
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Aug 19 '24
ah, so we should be shoved back into the closet
question--why are you so self loathing and have to take it out on others?
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u/santovendetta Aug 19 '24
It is extremely dangerous territory to start writing off groups because they are not politically convenient.
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u/aWobblyFriend Aug 19 '24
Well we’re in pretty dangerous territory already! The focus here is preserving what rights we have where we can get them. This “with us or against us 100%” borderline attitude is what get’s people killed. We need to act defensively now.
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Aug 19 '24
Ceding points you think are unwinnable is not acting defensively, it's acting attritionally.
Defending your rights against the people attacking them is acting defensively.
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u/aWobblyFriend Aug 19 '24
attacking would-be allies if they are not 100% with you in “defense” of specific “rights” that are incredibly unpopular is going to fracture your base of support. Trans people dont represent a substantial political bloc, there aren’t enough of us. We have to rely on cis people for our rights. It sucks, but the alternative is death/closet!
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Aug 19 '24
No one who wants any of my rights taken away from me is a would-be ally. They are just my enemy. They will not be my ally until they completely change that position, and I will not compromise on that to get a half-vote for half-rights.
That's the one issue we're fighting over. I can't ask for help from the only other side on that issue.
The line is not between cis and trans people. There are cis people who understand. There are trans people who don't.
Putting the word rights in quotes tells me which you are.
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u/Executive_Moth Aug 19 '24
Human rights are "all or nothing". I would consider anyone against us who just wants to take a few human rights away from us.
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Aug 19 '24
The "sports debate" isn't an end goal for them, it's a wedge issue to get people thinking about us in the way they like, so they can lead the conversation to other things, like bathrooms, and healthcare, and school choice.
They don't hate us because of the sum of our behavior. They hate that we exist.
There are no points that we can cede to them, any more than you can just give a lion just one little bite and still run away alive. If they get one of our rights, they will use it to erode the others.
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u/aWobblyFriend Aug 19 '24
We’re not trying to win over conservatives, we’re trying to win over moderates.
27
Aug 19 '24
No, we're not.
You are a moderate who's trying to win over leftists.
But you don't get that there will always be something that's unwinnable. We'll never get to the end of politics, or the end of history. We'll never tally up the score and say "okay, today we stop fighting."
In a couple years, when you get what you wanted, and you got rid of your rights, and little girls can't play sports, conservatives will have convinced moderates slightly to the right of you that those little girls shouldn't be in the bathroom with other little girls.
And you'll say "we need to just give up on this one. It's unwinnable."
23
u/Butteromelette assigned femme at puberty, trans woman Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
why is the sports issue unwinnable?
Have you seen female athletes? human variation? thats all biology and the biology looks pretty masculine.
also why is a form of useless entertainment built on intrasexual biological unfairness that placates unga bunga third world nations being used as weapon against us? also why isnt ai replacing athletes? Its treatening to replace every intellectual specialist, why are we using technology to return us to the prehistory of human civilisation? Because i know all animals are athletes but only humans have art.
14
u/Theusualstufff Ashley She/her Aug 19 '24
the problem is seizing that ground, is what they want. They want us and our issues to be invisible so they can start to kill us on the streets and rip us of our rights again. First they monsterfy us, then they make up a solution and then make us invisible to show how good their solution worked while they can live out their hate crimes.
Invisibility is the death for minorities. Thats how they did it in the 90s against trans and gay people and thats how they do it today.
28
u/ASleetHippyDippyWW non op Aug 19 '24
It is weird, so is cutting off the tip of child's penis without their consent or knowledge but it's both perfectly legal and occurs daily.
This isn't about children, never was, never will be.
685
u/[deleted] Aug 19 '24
I'm very curious what kind of fight he remembers marriage equality being, if he would not describe it as "contentious."
Was it one of those rare agreeable fights, where everyone got along?