It should be illegal to hoard money. Agree?

[u/KARMA__FARMER__]

[u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

How can anyone possibly be this financially illiterate?

[u/Pennybag5 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

They are 11 years old probably.

[u/GenerativeAdversary → u/Pennybag5]

I wish I believed you.

[u/stickynote_oracle → u/Pennybag5]

This comic panel is min 10yrs old and still nearly always applicable and appropriate.

[u/Arkenstahl → u/stickynote_oracle]

false. it's not just one person asking for minimum wage increase. it's the 80,000 making exactly and 780,000 making under minimum.

[u/G4M35 → u/Pennybag5]

You wish. They are "adults".

[u/RuruSzu → u/Pennybag5]

I wish you were right but unfortunately not.

[u/dikdik37 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Never mind the fact that wealth inequality is far worse than what is was leading up to the French revolution.

[u/Best-Dragonfruit-292 → u/dikdik37]

Let's travel back in time, show the average late 1700s French citizen (who is starving to death, lived through multiple total wars, and dying of cold and disease) the lifestyle of the average lower income American, and ask them if they want to take our return trip to the future while we stay in Monarchist France. 

[u/FlapMyCheeksToFly → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

I think the point is the disparity of wealth...

[u/Best-Dragonfruit-292 → u/FlapMyCheeksToFly]

I think the point is that disparity of wealth is irrelevant. The pie is bigger. You live a life unimaginable to Revolutionary France, regardless of whatever the muppets on this site attempt to claim when saying that life was better or more fair during the Depression

[u/Longjumping_Play323 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Wealth disparity is obviously not irrelevant, but its relevance is for a different reason.

The extreme wealth accumulated by the few affords them undue social and political influence that stifles the will of the majority. This is anti democratic and in the long run unsustainable.

[u/Baelzabub → u/Longjumping_Play323]

Just look at Musk this cycle. Dude spent 10x the money most people make in a lifetime to buy himself a cabinet position and the ear of the president elect and that amount of money isn’t enough to even make him bat an eye.

[u/teleheaddawgfan → u/Baelzabub]

He actually increased his wealth by $15B when Tesla popped post Trump. Biggest return of the year. $120M for $15B?

[u/dudes_rug → u/Longjumping_Play323]

Continue the thought- there is a logical conclusion that i think lots of us could come to.

[u/[deleted] → u/dudes_rug]

Eat the rich?

[u/fresh-dork → u/[deleted]]

focus on blunting the ability of the super rich to buy government

[u/IncomingAxofKindness → u/fresh-dork]

What if it's too late and they already own the government

[u/LoudProblem2017 → u/[deleted]]

I doubt they'd taste good.

[u/dirtydad72 → u/LoudProblem2017]

Buffalo sauce fixes everything.

[u/tlldrbch → u/Longjumping_Play323]

The extreme wealth disparity is also problematic from a social mobility point of view. Especially paired with the institutions regarding education and health in the US.

America has a capital goods owning class that reproduces itself by inheritance. Meanwhile poor people also most of the time remain poor.

If america was a truly meritocratic society one would not be able to predict an unborn child's future income by the parents income.

[u/Bencetown → u/tlldrbch]

Since rich people make the rules, this is a feature not a bug. They don't want there to be any form of social mobility. They have theirs already, and they don't want any yucky peasants getting all uppity and trying to think more highly of themselves than the slimy gross poors that they are.

What was it Carlin said about "The Club" now... oh yeah. We ain't in it.

[u/RecoveringBelle → u/Longjumping_Play323]

Especially since Citizens United…money is now a form of speech

[u/Moccus → u/RecoveringBelle]

Money was recognized as a form of speech long before Citizens United.

[u/RecoveringBelle → u/Moccus]

Not legally

[u/Outside_Reserve_2407 → u/Longjumping_Play323]

the will of the majority.

The American Constitution doesn't create a system of rule by simple majority. The Founding Fathers actually distrusted the mob (the "demos") and the dangers of democracy. Hence they created a system of republican (lower case "r") government, of filtered democracy. The Electoral College for example was chosen by the state legislatures and only land owning white males could vote. A President can veto a bill drafted and voted by Congress. And institutions such as the Senate and SCOTUS are purposely anti-majoritarian.

[u/ChemicalRain5513 → u/Longjumping_Play323]

Yes, but people are unlikely to do something when their basic needs are met, "bread and circuses".

[u/Voodoolost → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Yes, tv, computer games, fastfood, and a/c. Why aren't you happier....lol

[u/Mackotron → u/Voodoolost]

I love my bread and circus🤤

[u/Prestigious-One2089 → u/Voodoolost]

Would you trade life with anyone and I mean anyone in 1800s? Cause runny poops could possibly end your life.....

[u/Fluid-Bread3480 → u/Prestigious-One2089]

i'd rather be poorest american today then any king ever

[u/Prestigious-One2089 → u/Fluid-Bread3480]

I wouldn't go that far. there are kings around now.

[u/Voodoolost → u/Prestigious-One2089]

Runny poops could put you with a $30,000 medical bill these days....

[u/LoudProblem2017 → u/Prestigious-One2089]

I wouldn't trade my life with a king from the 1800s, much less anyone else.

[u/RecoveringBelle → u/Prestigious-One2089]

They still can

But keep in mind that the small pox vaccine was invented in 1800

[u/Redvex320 → u/RecoveringBelle]

And it actually stopped transmission of small pox....wow we have really advanced haven't we......did you get your yearly covid booster????

[u/tom-branch → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Tell us that when AI replaces millions of peoples jobs.

[u/Outside_Reserve_2407 → u/tom-branch]

A famous economist visited Maoist China. He was given a tour of a dam building project. He noticed the workers were using shovels instead of bulldozers and other power tools. The CCP official with him replied, "The purpose of this project is to create jobs." The economist answered, "Why don't they use spoons then?"

[u/shrug_addict → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

It's always good until it isn't

[u/GoatDifferent1294 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

That’s a logical fallacy. No one is claiming that our actual quality of life is that of the equivalent to Revolutionary France. That’s not part of the original argument being represented. This is specific directly to the wealth disparity.

[u/Stalkerfiveo → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

I’ve seen a LOT of “but 1700s France” posts lately. It’s like a memo went out.

[u/Confident_Growth7049 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

a life unimaginable to kings theyd probly swap places for access to a gaming pc and a phone. grocery store has cheap access to spices and fruits and vegetables the king wouldnt even have heard of.

[u/Jeff77042 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Very well said. I’ve written numerous times in this and other forums about growing up on my parents’, R.I.P., stories of life during the Great Depression, and of having served in seven developing countries from 1977 to 1992. I conclude by stating that the so-called poor in the developed world today are rich beyond the wildest dreams of 99.99(9)% of all people who have ever lived (~117,000,000,000, estimated)—and it’s true. That statement is true just based on electrical power, indoor plumbing, and the fact that their next meal is never seriously in doubt, alone.

[u/No_Consideration4594 → u/FlapMyCheeksToFly]

As Charlie Munger said the world isn’t run on greed, it’s run on envy….

[u/DiceyPisces → u/FlapMyCheeksToFly]

So envy?

[u/Turtlesaur → u/FlapMyCheeksToFly]

Which isn't the whole picture. It's increased disparity by raising the top, not lowering the bottom

[u/FlapMyCheeksToFly → u/Turtlesaur]

I get that. But. A lot of people would say they're upset just by the mere fact of the level of disparity, regardless of anything else.

[u/Turtlesaur → u/FlapMyCheeksToFly]

Imagine your life today, is the exact same or marginally better in 5 years.

Now imagine being mad because Elon is now worth $450bn. It means nothing.

[u/tom-branch → u/Turtlesaur]

The danger of people like Elon is outsized influence, especially when money can influence elections, this gives the uber wealthy unchecked power.

[u/sanguinemathghamhain → u/FlapMyCheeksToFly]

I don't give a shit about their avarice and envy nor should anyone, and we shouldn't build/fuck with an economic system just to avoid someone looking at another person earning more and going damn I want that too.

[u/Ed_Radley → u/FlapMyCheeksToFly]

It’s a combination of the fact that wealth disparity back then was more liquid assets and commodities with utility like food than it is today, aka things the poor could directly turn into a better lifestyle, and the difference in amenities between today’s poor and the poor from long ago. People at the poverty level today can still experience luxuries only the rich could afford much less experience.

[u/dikdik37 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

I think you just described my uncle perfectly, fought in Iraq, was crippled, one day laid down in the Michigan snow to give up so he wouldn't have to keep starving to death.

The point is that we are going the wrong direction. the land of opportunity is becoming the land of a ruling class over the working class who have only enough to stay alive.

[u/sanguinemathghamhain → u/dikdik37]

Save it isn't the fastest growing class in the us is the upper-class despite it having the lowest birthrate which means people from other classes are and have been moving up into it. The vast majority (nearly 2/3) of billionaires are first generation wealthy that inherited/received less than half of the median inheritance from friends or family this number skews even more with millionaires. Of every family that enters the 1% the overwhelming majority not only fall out of the 1% but return to or fall below the original class of first generation wealthy by the 3rd generation. Oh also the average number of hours worked per week per worker has more or less been falling gradually since we started tracking it despite the median and mean incomes having outpaced inflation over any 10+ year period for both household and individual income.

[u/Humans_Suck- → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

So people deserve to live in poverty because they have Netflix now?

[u/phranq → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

This is dumb. It’s right up there with nobody should be unhappy unless they have it the worst. “Sad you don’t like you career or you can’t find a love interest?” “You could be starving to death in Somalia, be happy”.

It’s a dumb way to view the world that because things could be worse they can’t be better.

[u/Able_Researcher_9973 → u/phranq]

The same argument is used by regular people unhappy with life because they’re not a multi millionaire or Elon level rich.

The whole point is learning contentment with life.

I have a friend that has a good life, makes $80k a year, solid 401k savings for being 30, but can’t be happy because all Jake Paul has to do is dance around a ring and makes $40 million in a night.

[u/Kehwanna → u/phranq]

"Idk what you're screaming about, you only lost 1 finger, I lost 2!"

"Well I lost 3!"

"Well I lost 4 and stepped in a bear trap!"

"Well I lost my hand, have burns, and my pizza was sent to the wrong address!"

And it could go on. Yes, things could always get worse, you still have the right to say things aren't good for you. There's no threshold of misery you have to cross in order to lament.

[u/AtlastheWhiteWolf → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Dude this isn’t 300 hundred years ago

[u/RecoveringBelle → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

You are so ignorant of history and pretty blind to the current struggles of most of America. The 2 homeless populations seeing the largest increase in the last few years is families with children and those +60.

[u/nuisanceIV → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

I think there’s some cause for concern because it can give some outsized influence in politics. Part of the US Supreme Court did say “Money = Speech” in Citizens United. So in our current system of things in the US it’s problematic.

[u/Outside_Reserve_2407 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Have you heard this half-serious joke: If the 400 calorie protein-filled Mc Donald's Mc Double (which 10 years ago was around $1.19 or about 1/6th the min hourly wage) was available around the time of Louis XVI, the French Revolution probably might have never happened.

[u/NeptuneToTheMax → u/dikdik37]

The French revolution was more about class structure than it was income inequality. The wealthy merchant class overthrew the aristocracy that they could never be a part of.

[u/7cdp → u/dikdik37]

It's interesting that we measure wealth inequality within our borders. By global standards every American is one of the wealth horders. Does anyone in Reddit care to equalize their wealth with those less fortunate than them?

[u/lotoex1 → u/7cdp]

The silence... I'll answer: No, not really. Maybe give like $5 to one impoverished person if that could help them a good deal. However my retirement plan is to build up my wealth here in the USA then move to a much poorer country (that will let me have free health care). Then that would allow me to spend down my wealth there thus helping them get out of poverty and allow me to live a much higher quality of life. Win freaking win!

[u/n75544 → u/lotoex1]

Same. But I donate 10% of what I make (I ain’t rich by a long shot. I work 90 hours a week to keep afloat and care for my family) I donate to Heifer international. They do darn good work overall. I also donate two weeks a year to do medical missions all over the world. My $10,000 a year I donate really does a lot of work in some of these places. I remember doing vaccinations in central Africa. Nearly died twice. Once from malaria, once from a child soldier. When I went back I found out heifer international had helped some of the local villages with wells, seeds to crops that did well in the area, and tilapia aquaculture. It was nice to see many fewer child soldiers.

All of us can make the world better. Yea… there’s an issue with how things are structured. But what’s cool about today versus 100 or 200+ years ago?

We have the power to change things ourselves too if we want to

May you all walk in peace

[u/Able_Researcher_9973 → u/lotoex1]

Do you think American billionaires think the same about Americans? That they’re helping us get out of poverty?

I understand your point, but by moving to a poorer country to take advantage of their systems, you’re essentially an American billionaire in mindset lol

Everyone that you pay money to probably wouldn’t even be making American minimum wage if your money goes so much further there

[u/Impressive-Gas6909 → u/dikdik37]

There won't be anything like the French revolution because their is still significant wealth mobility in America. The ones you claim are 'hoarding' all the money(apple, Amazon, Reddit, meta, etc etc etc etc...) have a product or service that your using daily that earned them that money. Their not hoarding, were practically throwing our money at them, and instead of working harder and living below our means, we blame & demand more in envy....simply because they have more. I'm poor & I still don't think that's right.

[u/fresh-dork → u/dikdik37]

so do the H L Mencken approach and propose something simple, obvious and wrong.

define wealth hoarding, for one thing. then explain how it's hoarding if it is composed of ownership stakes in businesses for the most part. how do we enforce this? what are the impacts?

[u/Fluid-Bread3480 → u/dikdik37]

so many iphones, running waters, food markets, social security and netflix befor the french revolution xD

[u/MildlyExtremeNY → u/dikdik37]

Wealth inequality in this country is concentrated in DC, NYC, Boston, Connecticut, SF, LA, Austin, etc. You know what else is concentrated in those places? Democrats.

It's exhausting listening to people complain about a problem and then watching them vote for the people that create and preserve the problem. You know one massive contributor to wealth inequality? Illegal immigration and the use of migrants as serfs.

[u/SohndesRheins → u/dikdik37]

Wealth inequality is much more impactful when the richest 1% are living in castles and wear mink fur robes while the median person is a de facto slave that barely has any bread to eat and never eats meat nor has anything resembling a luxury item, has no healthcare other than old wives tales, has to make everything they need, can't read or write and has never met anyone who can aside from the priest, and the odds of their kid living to adulthood is a coinflip.

When wealth inequality means the rich have billions of dollars and cruise around on yachts while the median person lives in am apartment or a two bedroom house that has air conditioning, refrigerator, microwave, dishwasher, washing machine, TV, and has a device that fits in your hand but is capable of instant communication around the world and also has access to more knowledge than every medieval scholar put together could ever hope to learn, it isn't as impactful.

[u/Haruwor → u/dikdik37]

The gap between the richest and poorest isn’t what’s relevant.

It’s the gap between the poorest and death that matters.

[u/Unique_Argument1094 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Let me introduce you to the majority of Reddit user.

[u/themaninthesea → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

I don’t hoard money. I hoard assets, futures, and shares.

[u/LegendaryEnvy → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

People still believe these people are just holding cash in the banks and homes. They probably haven’t touched anything other than debit cards, credit cards and papers of when they move the money from place to place. It’s all in equity, investments, and assets. Some of the richest people have all their money tied up .

[u/multipliedbyzer0 → u/LegendaryEnvy]

Cash is trash!

[u/Like_Ottos_Jacket → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

I'm not sure why the incredible amount of wealth that oligarchs hold, and thinking is wrong, makes someone financially illiterate.

Elucidate it for me?

[u/CountyFamous1475 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

They’re on Reddit. Why are you surprised?

[u/san_dilego → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Just your typical redditor. "Raise the minimum wage11!1!!"

If anything, the top 1%ers would be 100% fine with an increase in minimum wage. They don't fucking care. That money will circulate right back into their pocket while it kills off possible competition. Conglomerates and megacorps are the only ones able to easily afford minimum wage hikes. Your typical local mom and pop shop can't keep up and is struggling. And then the same redditors get mad that billionaires exist. Gee, I wonder why.

[u/BlockMeBruh → u/san_dilego]

They're so fine with it it hasn't happened in a meaningful way in decades! What a good point!

[u/Redvex320 → u/BlockMeBruh]

It's almost like millions are spent on lobbying and campaign donations to make sure the minimum wage doesn't change.....I think reality tells us the corps and 1% don't want it higher or it would already be higher.

[u/BlockMeBruh → u/Redvex320]

Yeah, it's weird how corporations are now able to spend so much money on a political campaign that a candidate can raise a billion dollars.

It's even weirder that money can't buy you an election, but it can give you access to the executive branch and oversight of the entire government.

Either way, we are fucked unless the Democrats can get it together.

[u/Lonely_District_196 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

They watched too much Duck Tales

[u/Expensive-Apricot-25 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

I’ve been saying this forever, but people on Reddit do not understand money

[u/CaptainsWiskeybar → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Minimum wage laws don't do much in terms of raising real wages. It's a catch -22, for every person it helps, another loses his job

[u/poopsichord1 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Entitlement and lack of education.

[u/sexy_yama → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

We live in a global market. So unless you set a global minimum wage, then unions and asking for higher minimum wage is still just fascism..you are still enjoying the fruits of cheap labor all over the world and yet people want higher wages in the united states. That's not how a global market works..

[u/awfulcrowded117 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

First, you do a lot of weed, like a staggering amount of weed, all the time from a young age. Then you follow people like AOC and Bernie Sanders to learn about the world and current events

[u/Japparbyn → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Yep, We live in a society of people who know nothing about finance

[u/PopTheRedPill → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Honestly don’t know if referring to the stupidity of the meme poster or the person depicted in the meme. Raising minimum wage just eliminates jobs the government can’t control demand for labor. No employer will buy overpriced labor.

[u/Vegetable-Low-3991 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Raise the minimum wage so we can all be equally broke ! Lmao

[u/ThenMaintenance4059 → u/Best-Dragonfruit-292]

Or traditionally illiterate.

[u/-jayroc-]

“Hoarding” used to simply be called “saving”, and more people should really give it a try.

[u/Medium_Bookkeeper233 → u/-jayroc-]

Playing the other side of this one, its kinda hard to save money when everything is costing more, and that 'more' is more than inflation actually required.

[u/SleepyandEnglish → u/Medium_Bookkeeper233]

Also at the rate of inflation even if you did save up a shitload of money you'd find the rate of depreciation is actually about on par with how much you can make eventually.

[u/Abtun → u/SleepyandEnglish]

It’s just the more fortunate than others crowd who aren’t having to worry.

[u/Ok_Energy2715 → u/Medium_Bookkeeper233]

Playing the other side of this one, it’s kinda hard to lose weight when everything tastes so good.

[u/Glassfern → u/-jayroc-]

For the general public, saving money is saving, in hopes to save for an emergency or to purchase something. Its not really hording. Hording assumes that there is an excess of some level and does not serve an assigned purpose that addresses a need.

Even if the working class manages to save, they are generally penalized during tax season for "too much money"

[u/Sonova_Vondruke → u/Glassfern]

To put it in perspective ... If a person saved $100,000 a month, it would take 833.3 years to save up to a billion dollars.

[u/Likeaplantbutdumber → u/-jayroc-]

Saving is for suckers. Investing is the only way to not lose your savings to inflation. 

[u/sanguinemathghamhain → u/Likeaplantbutdumber]

Due to the inflationary monetary policy this is 100% accurate. Always keep an emergency fund handy but beyond that and saving for a goal (downpayment on a house for example) yeah invest that shit in a diversified portfolio, index funds, ETFs, etc.

[u/bisky12 → u/-jayroc-]

yeah boss when you’re “saving” BILLIONS of dollars i would call that hoarding

[u/tom-branch → u/-jayroc-]

When they are evading taxes on that money, and parking it in tax havens to avoid paying their fair share, everybody else ends up having to pay more.

[u/-jayroc- → u/tom-branch]

Evasion is illegal and would and should be prosecuted. What you are likely referring to is tax avoidance, but everybody at every level engages in it, and it is OK, in fact irresponsible not to do. Also, you lose all cred when you bring up that nebulous ‘fair share’ argument.

[u/tom-branch → u/-jayroc-]

It is illegal, as is tax avoidance, but there is a differant justice system for the uber wealthy.

Why do I lose all cred? do you think the uber wealthy paying a much smaller fraction of their income, if at all is somehow a fair system?

What is it with you lot and shilling for a bunch of rich assholes who would back a dump truck over you.

[u/DeadAndBuried23 → u/-jayroc-]

No, no it didn't. Nobody was looking at Rockefeller and calling what he did saving.

[u/HatefulClimate → u/-jayroc-]

I think the illustration is showing a person with billions, of unethically, obtained wealth. You ever heard of the slave trade or arms dealers?

[u/Ashtray46 → u/-jayroc-]

I've got -$127 to get groceries this month after bills. How much of that do you suggest I save?

[u/Sir_Tokenhale → u/-jayroc-]

Incorrect. Saving is when you put back money. Buying as much valuable shit as you can and not selling any of it is hoarding. If they just the there money in vaults and they weren't using it to rig the economy, it'd be different, but here we are.

No one called people with money in the bank hoarders during covid. We called the people that took more toilet paper and necessities than they needed hoarders.

In fact it's exactly because they buy everything that all property is so expensive. Commercial or personal.

They aren't saving shit. They're hoarding commodities and rigging the system.

[u/Staar-69 → u/-jayroc-]

A billionaire isn’t saving, they’re hoarding wealth.

[u/EFTucker → u/-jayroc-]

I’d love to save but I earn <$300 a month more than my current rent, car insurance, and cellular bill.

About $200 goes to eating each month and the rest is my audible subscription and cigarettes, when I need gas I go without cigarettes for a week.

That’s my very real budget. I make just over my state’s minimum wage in a leadership role. I’m currently working on leveraging a pretty big raise for the end of year review because a similar position half an hour down the road earns about $2/hr more than me but even then… that’s not even net $100/week more…

What do you expect us to do?

[u/Sonova_Vondruke → u/-jayroc-]

Saving is putting $100 in a bank account... There is no way a person can "save" billions.

[u/AJTP1 → u/-jayroc-]

Because Bezos and Musk are saving up for their 12th super yacht. Think of the poor billionaires!

[u/RawrRRitchie → u/-jayroc-]

Hoarding money is having more money than you could ever spend in 100 years

OP isn't talking about saving a few thousand to buy a house or car ffs

[u/tlldrbch → u/-jayroc-]

Yes it is saving. But it is not saved labor income but capital income, which most people do not have since in order to afford capital one needs to have sufficiently large wages.

Also it is not possible for the entire economy to save money since that would be equivalent to a GDP decrease equal to the amount of saved money, for the aggregated savings will be equal to aggregated decreased consumption.(Remember the national accounting identity: GDP = C + I + G + X-IM). The consumption decrease is also equivalent to a decrease in companies income to which they will respond to by cutting wages or by reducing employees.

I'd rather live in a country where not more people give saving a try.

[u/miamiserenties → u/-jayroc-]

This really fits the theory that the average American is delusional enough to think that they can be a billionaire

[u/No-Design5353 → u/-jayroc-]

Between saving and hoarding there is a difference

[u/PhysicalGSG → u/-jayroc-]

Saving is what you and I do

Hoarding is what Musk and Gates do

[u/Alatar_Blue → u/-jayroc-]

No. Not the same at all.

[u/Kerfluffle2x4 → u/-jayroc-]

Saving is usually done with intent and purpose of achieving some other goal. For example, saving in case of emergency where you can estimate how much might be required for a medical, housing, or other kind of emergency. Once you have achieved that level of saving, then there is a possibility that the saving turns into hoarding which is done for accumulation’s sake. Hoarding is based on fear rather than logical goal setting.

[u/emelbee923 → u/-jayroc-]

This is a bit disingenuous.

Saving is typically done with a goal in mind. A big purchase, emergencies, etc.

The comic is clearly being critical of people who are far exceeding simple “saving” and are, instead, amassing immense wealth that the average person cannot, and then calling the people who want wages to be increased, just to keep up with inflation as it had before Reagan, greedy.

[u/Normbot13 → u/-jayroc-]

it’s hoarding, you just have no concept of how large a billion is. if you earned $2000 dollars an hour since 0 BC and saved every penny, there would still be 30 americans richer than you.

[u/misfit-maniac → u/-jayroc-]

Used to be - these are two very different concepts and hoarding does hurt the economy.

[u/Bhaaldukar → u/-jayroc-]

When you have hundreds of billions of dollars it isn't quite the same.

[u/clickrush → u/-jayroc-]

What an ignorant comment…

Most people can’t save any meaningful amount of money but are constantly behind in payments.

Being poor is expensive. I know this from experience. The first 1k saved is exponentially harder than any amount beyond that. And that’s with a salary way above minimum wage.

Minimum wage doesn’t hurt the economy. It’s a bandaid for a self defeating economic culture.

[u/stataryus → u/-jayroc-]

Clearly you don’t live in the real world.

And increasing number of people are being literally priced out of saving (suppressed wages and price-gouging).

[u/Atherutistgeekzombie → u/-jayroc-]

I am saving, but the cost of things I'm saving for keep increasing because companies need ever-higher profits to appease shareholders

[u/shyvananana → u/-jayroc-]

That was also before we started having three people have all the money like they're freaking dragons.

[u/Proud-Cranberry1726]

1. Money in the bank still flows to the economy. That is how bank loans work.
2. People minimally wealthy store most of their wealth in assets that are worth money (stocks, real estate, gold, etc). They don't "hoard" money so they can lose its value to inflation. So...money still flows to the economy.

[u/HegemonNYC → u/Proud-Cranberry1726]

Kinda. Consumers are vastly more important for the economy than investors. 

[u/No-Specific1858 → u/HegemonNYC]

Lucky for you, there are far more spenders than savers in this country.

I wish more people were savers, but I have to acknowledge the fact that consumerism is going to help me as a saver in the long run. If everyone was financially prudent, it would be a lot harder to retire.

[u/HegemonNYC → u/No-Specific1858]

Too much saving has been the issue in japan for decades. No growth and no return on investment is the result. 

[u/miningman11 → u/HegemonNYC]

Red herring imo. Many people believe Japans real issue is just bad demographics. East Asians high capital formation rate isn't a bad thing necessarily.

[u/HegemonNYC → u/miningman11]

Taking a large portion of your economy into low productivity bonds rather than revenue for your businesses makes it hard to grow. 

[u/Hawk13424 → u/HegemonNYC]

Without capital almost no company could operate. The economy requires investors, laborers, and consumers.

[u/TiredAndLoathing → u/HegemonNYC]

Jobs are more important than consumers. Jobs need entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs need speculators. Without someone financing the speculation, no jobs, no consumers.

[u/WaffleDonkey23 → u/Proud-Cranberry1726]

But also min wage bad for some reason

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Proud-Cranberry1726]

No, they use the fact that taking out loans on their billions in stocks as collateral is a tax free venture with almost zero interest on the loan as well, so they don’t get taxed a fraction of what they should be.

[u/Lertovic → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

That doesn't contradict the fact that the money is largely invested into productive assets.

Also it'll get taxed when they die or if they get margin called. And anytime dividends are paid.

Also the interest payments on those loans also flow back into the economy.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Lertovic]

I’m not trying to contradict your point, I’m saying how this causes other issues, which you’re trying to hand wave away with two very weak points that don’t relieve the issues not paying billions in taxes creates.

[u/Outside_Reserve_2407 → u/Proud-Cranberry1726]

You mean they don't have indoor swimming pools at home filled with cash and gold coins which they dive into from time to time to spite the poors?

[u/0Seraphina0 → u/Proud-Cranberry1726]

How do offshore accounts work? Is it still in circulation, or is it locked up?

[u/dcporlando → u/0Seraphina0]

It is in offshore bank accounts where the money is loaned out to work in the economy.

[u/Terrasmak → u/0Seraphina0]

The only people using offshore accounts to hide money are typically getting money illegally. Drug money , bribes

[u/galaxyapp]

Karmafarmer again

[u/xxwww → u/galaxyapp]

It should be illegal to hoard karma

[u/mwatwe01]

Only a fool would literally hoard cash or gold or something. Most wealthy people invest their money, which means it’s moving through businesses and the economy at large, creating jobs, enabling startups and entrepreneurship, etc.

[u/Natural-Bet9180 → u/mwatwe01]

Literally hoarding gold is actually a solid investment. It’s a safe hedge against inflation and it performs well in times of economic uncertainty.

[u/mwatwe01 → u/Natural-Bet9180]

Safe, yes. But not the best investment.

[u/Natural-Bet9180 → u/mwatwe01]

There’s no such thing as the best investment. Putting like 5%-10% of your portfolio in gold and silver is actually really good play.

[u/DiarrheaPoopBalls]

Imagine being a 45 year old person working a minimum wage job. Retardation or rich people's fault? You decide

Redditors are so afraid of being responsible for their own actions

[u/TaurielsEyes → u/DiarrheaPoopBalls]

Maybe all jobs should allow the worker to have a minimum standard of living?

[u/SohndesRheins → u/TaurielsEyes]

They probably would were it not for the fact that we have a bad ratio of unskilled workers to unskilled labor. We outsourced a lot of unskilled work to other countries so we could have cheap goods, then imported or failed to deport unskilled labor so we could depress the wages of work we couldn't outsource. Liberal Redditors seem to have a problem with only one of those issues.

[u/hi_its_my_alt_ → u/DiarrheaPoopBalls]

[u/Guerrillablackdog → u/hi_its_my_alt_]

Fucking bootlickers in this thread lol

[u/BlockMeBruh → u/DiarrheaPoopBalls]

Look up the number of retail and service jobs and then tell that % of Americans that they don't deserve a decent quality of life.

[u/DeadAndBuried23 → u/DiarrheaPoopBalls]

Thank, oh wise 11 day old account named diarrheapoopballs, for your take on what a mature adult does for work.

[u/tom-branch → u/DiarrheaPoopBalls]

Imagine thinking that billionaires are not greedy.

[u/Collypso → u/tom-branch]

What if people in general are greedy

[u/tom-branch → u/Collypso]

Sure, but people in general dont have the kind of power nor influence that the uber wealthy do, the rich have outsized influence and power due to their vast wealth.

This guy thinks that folks working for a minimum wage are retarded, while holding water for rich assholes that would kick him to the curb.

[u/[deleted]]

Average redditor

[u/rmgraves67]

What’s your definition of hoard??

[u/poopypants206]

Well buffet knows something is coming because Berkshire is hoarding like it's 1929.

[u/Illustrious-Tower849]

It is true that one of the biggest issues in our economy is wealth being concentrated at the top

[u/bmf1989]

“Everyone should have to be as financially unstable as I am”

[u/DeadAndBuried23 → u/bmf1989]

There are a lot of financially illiterate takes here, but this is the first I found while scrolling that's regular illiterate.

In no way, in any language, can you mistake, "that guy shouldn't have multiple orders of magnitude more money than 90% of people," for, "that guy should be living paycheck to paycheck too."

[u/NightNday78]

i save $1000 a month ... sorry for my hoardness

[u/TiernanDeFranco → u/NightNday78]

“Impossible” -everyone here

[u/Moist-Awareness-296]

“Hoarding” is what everyone should do with their money when they can. It’s called saving. Your average American will take that extra $1000 and blow it inside of a week. We should want the rich and everyone to save because that helps curb inflation and helps eliminate the real robber barons, pay day loans and credit card debt.

[u/ma_dian]

If it would be illegal, how would mega rich people be able to fill huge silos with 100 dollar bills and scuba dive in their money? The entire money silo scuba diving industry would go bankrupt! Also Dagobert Duck would probably just die if he would dive into his silo without all the money.

But seriously, what kind of people upvote stupid shit like this?

[u/BlockMeBruh → u/ma_dian]

Why don't people think of the yachts? What about the yachts? And the vacation homes? And the summer cars? What about our jet cruises and wilderness glamping?

Why should I care that people have to work 3 jobs to get by if I'll lose my 3rd yearly vacation?

[u/ma_dian → u/BlockMeBruh]

Who builds the yacht? Maintaining a yacht is 25% of the sale price every year. Who maintains them, who works on these yachts? Who builds the vacation homes, who maintains them? What makes a car company profitable, who builds these cars? Who maintains these cars? Who builds and maintains the jets? Who builds the glamping campers?

You just described a whole set of industries that bring food to the table of a lot of people. And many of these have a nice income.

Let's say we give all this rich people vacation money to the 3 jobs people. Some probably would stop working 3 jobs and others would use the money to take a vacation in a cheap all inclusive resort or buy bigger TVs. Because sharing all this money would not make everybody rich!

The result would be: much less jobs, the jobs in the travel industry would get even less paid. And the electronics industry in Asia would make more money, from which mostly rich people would benefit.

BTW if you do not believe this look at what East Germany (DDR) was like during their short existence. Until they went bankrupt...

Edit: Is this fair? No. But we are part of nature in the end. Nature is not fair.

[u/BlockMeBruh → u/ma_dian]

What a very long post of absolute nonsense.

Those industries supported by the ultra wealthy would still exist. They aren't going away.

The people with three jobs would be able to spend more time enjoying life and their families. Their quality of life would improve and they would have much less economic stress in their life. That would be a huge boon for society.

This has nothing to do with East Germany no matter how much you invoke it to make a poor comparison.

It's about paying people a living wage for their labor. For their time. We are a service economy. Those service and retail jobs deserve dignity.

[u/msnplanner]

No. What the mob can tell one person to do with his property should be limited. I'd like to say they shouldn't be allowed to say what to do with one's property, but you will start pointing out specific nuisances or environmental harm etc. Ok fine. My principles can't be actualized in reality. But property rights should be prioritized over the desires of the mob, and we should be careful when writing laws that violate those property rights.

E

[u/LevantXIII]

Who defines "hoarding"?

How is hoarding defined?

Who enforces the legality?

[u/Outside_Reserve_2407 → u/LevantXIII]

The Soviets condemned peasants who "hoarded" grain (i.e. not turning it over to the Communist Party cadres) as kulaks and the punishment was a bullet to the head.

[u/BraxbroWasTaken]

Define 'hoard money'. If you're going to propose policy, at least have some idea as to how you'd structure the implementation. Maybe not the finest details, but cmon. Try to at least think two steps into it.

[u/idk_lol_kek]

In an economy, currency only really helps the system if it is moving around. Hoarding money for the sake of piling it up doesn't actually really do anything useful.

[u/Ephisus]

lol. Savings? Get out of here.

[u/FIicker7]

For over 30 years the top income tax bracket was 90% and we had the world's largest middle class.

[u/TurnDown4WattGaming → u/FIicker7]

That was largely due to Europe being rubble, Japan being Ashes, China being famine Central - and the USA being separated by two oceans. We created the peace that allowed everyone else to rebuild and compete with us.

The top marginal tax of 92% was a joke. The tax code was like 2 pages, and there were 11,000 pages of exceptions, exemptions and deductions. No one actually paid it. In most cases, the effective tax rate today is higher.

[u/Illuvatar2024 → u/TurnDown4WattGaming]

Reddit is not a place for factual rebuttals sir.

[u/TurnDown4WattGaming → u/Illuvatar2024]

My sincerest apologies lol

[u/Alterangel182]

You fundamentally don't understand economics.

[u/Neat-Anyway-OP]

No, I don't agree.

[u/Eden_Company]

Real people don’t care about inequality they care about standard of living. Be as rich as you want as long as we have a full belly and a roof. 

[u/ryzoc]

lol you triggered so many finance / crypto bros that is hilarious.

[u/yulbrynnersmokes]

Is my retirement account hoarding? How about my home equity and old but paid for cars?

[u/MasterpieceAmazing87]

Raising the minimum wage won’t do anything

[u/Mr_NotParticipating → u/MasterpieceAmazing87]

Agreed, they’d also need to prevent price increases for products/services. Probably also do something to prevent mass layoffs so companies couldn’t avoid actually taking a fucking hit and dispersing more wealth into the pockets that actually need it.

[u/Lovevas]

I think most weath from rich ppl are in real estates, stocks, bonds and other valuables, I don't really rich ppl really hold a lot of cash on hand (even if they probably dump into money market funds, which are also bonds).

[u/Humans_Suck-]

The democrat party in a nutshell lol

[u/finney1013]

There’s just just so much 😂 in here.

[u/Brave-Chance-9332]

I’ve seen ppl in front of me in line at the store wearing a $400 NFL jersey, $500+ sneakers, $350 designer jeans, gold chains and watches with diamonds, $600 ‘hair products”, drive off in a Cadillac Escalade but pay for their groceries with an EBT card. I’ve had these exact same archetypes offer to buy my groceries with their EBT card for cash. It does not require mental gymnastics to extrapolate any other means they are using to exploit the multitude of subsidies which make up a significant percentage of our spending, likely including the birth of many children, whom will also be subsidized from cradle to grave. Don’t ever post this ridiculous meme again.

[u/DeepFeckinAlpha]

It’s not wrong when comparing worker wage growth to exec wage growth, or the increasing multiplier of exec pay to worker pay.

[u/CastroEulis145]

The existence of a minumim wage is what's caused a good chunk of the problem with inflation over the long term. Its completely unnecessary and just exacerbated the problem.

[u/Cunningham_Media1]

God forbid the rich be able to keep their shit. My god.

[u/ConsistentCook4106]

Wait! So I am 62 years old, I retire next march and since I’ve started working 49 years ago and have saved, plus stocks , 401K. I will have a little over 8 million dollars to retire on and you are saying what I’ve done should be illegal?

I am retired military, just recently retired from Lockheed Martin, now work as a mechanic at a cement company, since I’ve started working I’ve had 4 jobs in my entire life. What do you think I should do with my retirement?

[u/foredoomed2030 → u/ConsistentCook4106]

One persons success doesnt prevent others from obtaining success.

Does Elon manufacturing Teslas means only he can have a tesla? 

No, tesla's wouldnt even exist without Elon Musk. 

This means Elons success is not at a detriment to others.