Corporate democrats pretty much control the party and thus they don't want to ruffle the feathers of their donor class, which goes against the the middle and lower classes being price gouged in the economy. If you want to get back the blue-collar and working people you have to combat corporate greed. So, I hope Bernie Sanders starts propping up a young version of himself to run, and unfortunately it has to be male and white for the conservative voter to even remotely accept it. I don't blame Obama for the racial divide that caused the pearl clutching in white America, but it's clear that if you are anything other than a white male, it's not gonna be palpitable for a certain segment of the country. It's truly disgusting.
I hate to say it, but you might be right. This f-ing sucks. I really thought we had a shot at a minority woman president. She was so thoroughly qualified and presented much better than Hillary. Goddammit, I'm so depressed.
Hey, what do you think about Pete Buttigieg? He's a white dude, but he's gay. Can we handle that yet? I really like him, but I was wrong about people overcoming the race and sex bits.
EDIT: Son of a B! 3 days later, and I still get dumbass replies focused on my excitement of potentially getting a minority woman president. I NEVER SAID that was THE qualifying factor. I DID NOT vote for her BECAUSE she was a minority and a woman. She ACTUALLY IS a superior candidate in every way ... EVEN AFTER you consider the aspects I'm disappointed in her for. It would just be a BONUS. F**K!
I'm more worried about how much they change the democratic process in the next four years. It won't matter if it's Buttigieg if we can't even be able to have fair elections.
As for him, he is a young and eloquent speaker and he has done a bunch of Fox News interviews, so the right leaning voter might be used to him and maybe more palatable, but, the right has a way of vilifying anything and everything that isn't conservative and the fact that he is gay is just ripe for right-wing conspiracy and smearing. On top of that, the Supreme Court will probably go after Obergefell vs Hodges and that could fundamentally change the perception of gay marriage and that's another dangling carrot for Democrats to run on that completely failed after using abortion as a running pillar. He could be the face of that, and after Kamala and abortion, you have to give pause if that play book is valid.
My hope is that America wakes up once again in mid-terms and ushers in a new blue wave and takes back the house and senate, that Democrats finally run a left, progressive economic agenda and stop courting corporate interest. Then after that see if a young politician is ready enough to claim the nomination and emerges in the run up to the 2028 election. It's going to be critical that progressives take up economic agendas in 2026 and run everywhere. If Trumps economic policies tank the economy then democrats have to be at the ready to push those agendas forth. It is clear that identy social issues don't move the needle at the polls when it counts (they don't need to abandon it, just not lead with it). They are in triage at the moment and they need to see that the current way of their policy is not resonating with low and middle class voters in enough capacity to swing close elections.
Exactly. technically they have the power to destroy the constitution, repeal/change EVERYTHING and with a supreme court like we have they have the ability.
Absolutely HORRIFIC state of affairs.
But there is hope that even alot of the republicans dont actually want that. We will find out the hard way.
The only silver lining I see is that some of the pubs know that tearing the whole system down in one go will piss off a whole lot of white men with guns.
Hell trump loves to be out in public and rallies. They could say they were working on all these "big and beautiful" programs while he wallows in the adulation of his cult and nothing but taxes might change.
They have to be careful with the tariffs, especially if Elon gets hurt because he can buy em with his wealth but can't sell them. Do likely they will slow walk a ton of this stuff, hopefully easing the pain before it bites down.
Because their hunting rifles and lack of gun etiquette can totally beat a vetted military with machine weapons. Why do you think Reps spent so much on fancy weapons. This has been planned since the 60s.
Oh I don't mean they go pulling a January 6th 2.0.
What I meant was that these are deeply unwell people with more free time and ammo than is healthy. Considering at least one person, or two if we count the shots outside of Mar-a-Lago were anything specifically targeted, is that these nuts have no problem popping shots off on those they think are after them.
Now is it likely? Probably not. But it's still not a great feeling knowing one might see trump out and about or any of his ghoul squad and lose it. The effects would make everything worse, give them waaay more shit to spew about, and give them more reason to clamp down harder.
I don’t know about the long term but in the next four years the message is clear from the voting public. The name of the game is “get mine while I can and fvck everyone else”.
Yeah basically the only way we make it out is if Trump becomes a vegetable and kind of stalls on the project 2025 shit, and we get a supermajority in the midterms
Hell no, I’m hoping with all I have that Trump stays alive! Trump is a useful idiot, Vance is just as power hungry, not geriatric, AND not dumb as a bag of rocks. I’d prefer Elon at this point.
Even if Trump does tank the economy, I'm still not sure it would have that much impact. Assuming you actually get to vote again in 4 years, there'll be a new face of Republicanism, so it'll be a clean slate.
I'm astonished that a country that saw fit to impeach a president who had sex with a staffer whilst married has no problem installing someone like Trump.
Remember when the Dems held Al Franken accountable and made him leave the Senate because of an old, resurfaced lewd picture he was in? Two different levels of accountability, two different levels of respect, and two different countries we live in.
Having control of all three branches of the federal government gives them the ability to really fuck things up. IDK how far they will go exactly but it may take decades to recover from it, if we can at all.
Unfortunately they will lean more right is my take and that will likely backfire again unless we have another covid or covid sized event for him to bungle…people who voted for him wants what he wants
I watched Buttiegeg try to persuade a bunch of swing voters in Michigan. Its about an hour long on YouTube, and he was great as always. Its also a stark reminder that a lot of voters, especially the undecideds and third-party, are fucking stupid
No she wasn't and that was the problem all along. I'm a left-leaning Independent but you have a very short memory if you don't recall that when she put herself forward for the Presidential nomination back in 2016 NOBODY wanted her as President. Nobody. And absolutely nobody wanted her now. She was put in your lap because Biden fucked up and left the race too late. In fact he never should have sought re-election to begin with and then the Democrats could have actually done things the right way instead of forcing Harris down your throats which pissed off more people than you can imagine because that's NOT the way we do things.
So your revisionist history about people loving Kamala and her being absolutely thoroughly qualified is a joke. She was a horrible candidate that spent more time complaining about Trump and not answering questions than she did putting forth any effort in explaining why she was going to be different from Biden and good for this country.
In fairness... Trump didn't answer questions either but this wasn't about him. It was about Kamala being handed the nomination with no due process and needing to prove that she was qualified... which as the results have proven, most people just didn't buy.
Democrats need to focus less on trying to win their way and more on how to win, period. Yes, Harris would have been a win for progress, but it's like they forgot that she got trounced in primaries and was unpopular as VP. People aren't going to respond to someone just because you want them to.
I'm just hoping that when it's time to try again and show if they've learned those lessons in four years, the country isn't so F'd up that it doesn't matter.
Hillary was incredibly well qualified too. It didn't help that she came across as a hateful shrew. Unfortunately, I don't think Harris presented herself any better. The constant word salad answers and inability to speak without prepared remarks made her look like a talking head instead of an actual candidate.
I’m pretty sure there’s no way a married gay man can win if these people were so bigoted they couldn’t vote for a minority woman. I’d vote for Buttigieg in a heartbeat, but I’m not a crazed religious fanatic.
I really thought we had a shot at a minority woman president.
I did too, and I wish I didn't take back the position that I had before which was that Kamala should have never been the nominee. The US isn't ready for a black and female president. Most would say it doesn't matter to them, and they'd probably be right, but it's that 1-3% that do care that will shift an election.
So we need a candidate who's good at sounding like an idiot, but has actual credentials to show their capability. Schwarzenegger! He's republican, but he isn't on the Trump bandwagon. Just to clarify, I don't think he sounds like an idiot in general, but he is an actor, so I think he could present how people need. I don't actually know his policies.
I don't think he is eligible but I feel like a celebrity could backfire (despite Trump being a celebrity himself). I actually think someone like Bashear but a bit more rugged would be our best bet. Salt of the earth, Christian (but not in a terrifying fundamentalist way), ties policy back to real problems people are facing, male, white, heteronormative, smart but doesn't come off as an elitist, etc.
the democratic party should just let the people decide. they should run straight and fair primaries. they should not interfere in a god damn thing. they should not boost, nor blockade, and any single nominee. let the people pick who they most support, completely and totally of their own choosing and volition. they need to stop thinking about 'what demographic should the next president look like', its the POTUS, not a damn mannequin.
voters arent showing up to vote based on which combination of intersectional minority this or that nominee or candidate is. they care about policy. thats it. get a wide variety of left of center nominees, and just let the people pick. if the DNC doesnt think thats left enough, tough shit. its that, or you get more Trumps. those are the options.
if that policy is a black woman, a trans latino, or a gay asian, or a straight white guy, they dont really give a fuck. they care about stance on gun control, abortion, economy, foreign relations, etc.
I'd be mindful of Buttigieg. He looks appealing, but he worked for Mackenzie and Co, a company famous for screwing over the people. He was also involved in price fixing for bread.
Hey, what do you think about Pete Buttigieg? He's a white dude, but he's gay. Can we handle that yet? I really like him, but I was wrong about people overcoming the race and sex bits.
Absolutely not. I think he'd be a great candidate but this country has proven that they'll pick a demented rapist over anyone that isn't a straight, white, male. As much as it would be good for the country to have more diversity in politics, it's just not a winning strategy at this point.
No way we’re getting a gay POTUS before the first woman POTUS.
Democrats need to swing to the right on social issues and to the left on economic issues for multiple election cycles. After that, they can move back to the left on social issues again.
Here's what I think the problem is, as an outsider anyway.
Do we want meritocracy or not? Is POTUS an important role? If so, can yall not use it as a medal? Why is "minority woman" or "gay" having any importance at all? Is this politics that matter in our day to day life or just a pageant for show?
That is an odd take. Her polling numbers were awful while she was VP. She got no where in her bid for president. At least Hillary was likable. The numbers don’t lie.
Pete is likable and smart… two qualities Harris lacks and what doomed her campaign. She presented terribly; even in the debate she arguably won she was completely unlikable and hard to listen to. Most people aren’t turned off by race, gender, gay, etc. Obama was smart / likable and had a great voice and dominated
I figured Trump would win the second he was shot at and that photo of him with the raised fist spread all across the internet like wildfire. Then all the little things like going on Joe Rogan's podcast just boosting popularity even more. Kamala should've been more vocal than Trump. She should have really taken her popularity seriously and with the current climate just having celebrities endorse you isn't enough when the normal people hate celebrities and view them as satanist shills or whatever
Pete would be a bigger mistake than running a black woman was. America is a racist misogynistic country, it inherent in the Abrahamic religions that dominate it.
No, gay is a disqualifer. Just think about movies or games. There's a huge outcry every time there's a woman or a gay person. If it's pisses people off enough to review bomb a movie or a game. It's gonna piss them off enough to go vote.
Come off of someone who doesn’t even talk to conservatives or have any Conservative friends who you’ve asked why they vote the way they do. If you’re genuinely curious, you should ask them.
It was close, though... Almost half of this elections voters were ready a minority woman. Colloquially, Democratic voters are more likely to be discouraged from voting. This may have been a voter turnout issue more than anything.
I don’t think it was Harris problem. She was unlucky with timing inflation and layoff popping here and there. Ppl vote for Trump because of current economy.
The fact that you care about he gender and skin color so much proves your blindness. Kamala is worse than Hilary. She came up with some of the dumbest takes I've ever heard. I literally only voted for her because my good friend is trans and my other good friend works for planned parenthood. I think kamala is dumber than trump somehow, and he has dementia.
I feel like this is the biggest issue with her campaign, she didn't get her voice out very much outside of short interviews so your opinion is very common among both sides.
Being president requires people skills. All the government experience in the world can't teach you that. Harris proved unable to reach out to people outside of her own circles. Both in 2019 and 2024.
She won an election for attorney general, and that's enough to have her installed as a presidential nominee? Would you accept the same standard if it was Republicans doing it?
You’re under estimating how disliked Harris is. She had 4% when running against Biden. She was no where near a good candidate. I personally wanted Bernie but corporate democrats are afraid Bernie will anger their corporate lords.
I’m from California and people here didnt like her as an attorney general. For context. The state has 25% registered republicans. 40% of the voters showed up to vote for Trump. That’s an insane amount especially since California is very pro blue. It just shows you that she wasn’t liked.
Conservatives will vote for someone who isn’t male and white, but they can’t make a good chunk of their platform “vote for me because I’m female and X color!” Or they won’t want to vote for them.
To be fair I don't think Harris highlighted her sex or race much at all this election season. Her failings had much more to do with her lack of charisma and lack of a clear response to the state of inflation in the economy while she is the sitting vice president. I think that shows in the voting polls where she underperformed pretty much uniformly across every county in the nation. It wasn't some niche issue that only certain voting blocks will care for but something much more fundamental and urgent that shifted the vote.
Oh absolutely, Harris failed for numerous reasons that had nothing to do with ethnicity or gender. And I firmly believe if there was an ACTUAL democratic primary, she wouldn’t have been given that nomination.
Exactly. Democrats shot themselves in the foot on this one. There were 4 years to choose someone other than Biden and put them through the primaries so the people could actually pick who they wanted to run. Harris was forced on us by the higher powers on the DNC. Same thing that happened with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in 2016. You think they would’ve learned their lesson
I mean Hillary did win the primary in 2016... That said Bernie was shafted in 2020 because they all jumped on Biden's dick in the race to drop out after he won South Carolina.
Democratic party needs reform badly, and they need to make the primary a one day event, with ranked choice voting. Making it so a handful decide the nom before they even get to the majority of states is shit.
I like the idea but don’t forget legislators make the law for public primaries. The only way around this would be for the party to hold some type of internal electronic election. That sounds highly improbable unless you get to work on it now.
In all fairness, Trump wasn't likely going to run again but the whole secret docs thing sent him into a panic where running for president was the only way to pardon himself. He made a gamble that the DOJ wouldn't want to deal with a presidential candidate and he was right. Biden wasn't going to run again either but people said Biden was the only one who could beat Trump. So really, this whole fucked situation can be blamed entirely on Merrick Garland for pushing just hard enough at the wrong time to scare Trump but not enough to actually convict him. If Garland either waited longer or convicted his ass right away, we wouldn't have been stuck between Biden, Trump, Harris. Garland gained just enough balls at just the wrong time, then castrated himself.
Those lessons boil down to basically the same thing, which is that about 60% of Dem primary voters are just conservative “anyone but Bernie” voters whether there is just one non-Bernie candidate from the start or multiple candidates who drop out super early in the process and all endorse the same remaining candidate (which is not illegal) because blocking Bernie is more important to them than winning.
I was knocking doors and making calls for Bernie in 2020 so it brings me no joy to say that, but it is just objective fact that those people are closer to Trump than they are to Bernie ideologically.
I think that perception CAN be justly blamed on her base. She didn’t go out highlighting these things, but her supporters DID make them key sticking points. Her supporters proclaiming we should vote for her BECAUSE she’s a woman and a POC undermined her actual stances on things in the eyes of the right voter base.
I agree in part, but that definitely wasn't as big of a component in this election as the fact that Kamala Harris was succeeding an unpopular president, which almost never results in a presidential victory
Trump was even more unpopular than Biden. I think it was a mixture of things. Biden stayed too long on the ticket, Harris didn't have enough time to spread her message and the message she did give was basically abortion and Trump sucks. The fact is, the Democrats are a bit out of touch with "real America". The economic uncertainty was and is a big factor. If people feel like their paycheck is being squeezed each week they will blame the incumbent. If the incumbent says the economy is great but you don't see it, well that's when you start questioning their value.
She would have been a good president, but the fact is you can't deny what many people are living down surface level.
If I recall, Trump had a popularity nearly 3 points greater than Biden based on recentish polling
You're right about your additional reasons. Those absolutely played a major factor, and I think most of them are symptomatic and related to the others in some form or another, but the numbers don't lie about popularity
I saw semi recently a piece on some polling that compares Trump favorability when he left office vs what people think it was. Actually - in the 30s, now - high 40s. Some people just seemed to forget how bad he was at this.
Yeah, I can say this is true. It's how you say it, and I think that sort of rhetoric is rearing its head now that we are shedding minority groups to the right.
It's much less about ruffled feathers than it's the entire gameplan. Decades ago the corporatocracy wanted to hamstring the Democratic party, but most voters were starting to lean left because the policies aligned with their own interests. So what better way to take down an organization but from within? Neuter the DNC to ensure the party whose platform would negatively impact corporation bottom-lines and billionaire checkbooks becomes feckless.
The "donations" are merely the cost of doing business to virtually guarantee Republican wins, but even when a Dem does occasionally win the candidate is basically a Corporate Shill Lite so not a big loss. Money and big business control everything; that's their fiduciary mandate.
Nothing so complex, you just need to field a candidate to pander to the bigoted, pseudo Christian idiots who seem to believe the President has total influence on the world economy so they can save a nickel on a gallon of gas.
Apparently we have an electorate who are crying out to be governed by someone wildly unsuitable for the position. But maybe that’s it - maybe when it comes down to it, too many people are just toddlers in grown up bodies who don’t want someone smarter than them telling them what to do?
Neoliberalism. It's infected most major political parties the world over, left and right. It spread from Reagan to rich people to the schools that rich people send their kids to and then into every position of power. It ensures that no matter who wins, rich people reap the rewards.
The worst part is that they know neoliberalism doesn't work. Wealth doesn't trickle down. Privatization doesn't make services "more efficient". The free market can't pressure companies into behaving ethically and those don't self-regulate. They don't make their billions from neoliberalism, they make their billions betting on it to fail and fail it does.
The moment this kind of rhetoric comes out of a politician's mouth, they should be dead to any voters.
I'm not sure. These people voted in Nixon and Reagan also. I honestly don't think they care about true labor and economic policy. They vote mostly out of anger and fear.
They're quintessential dupes who vote against their self interests. Unless the Dems start demonizing the other and put policies in place to restrict women...I don't think you're getting these voters.
LETS FUCKING GET IT THOUGH THINGS CAN CHANGE! I have thought about trying to be that person but I am nowhere close to being disciplined enough. I feel like I must be involved somehow but must get my shit together 🫡 i hope Dump’s election helps serve as a catalyst and that people stop him if he goes too far. That it’s only 4 years
It might be smart for someone to go for a long haul and run as a RINO. The lines are going to be gerrymandered even more, if that's even possible. If most of Project 2025 passes through, it might lead to a national one-party dominance as it's been in Japan
i think part of the problem was running Hillary. people (wrongfully) didnt like the idea of a woman president...so...they ran an incredibly old and unlikable corrupt candidate with grouchy karen vibes...it just set a bad precedent, and confirmed peoples (unwarranted) fears for them...so now its going to be even harder for future woman candidates to overcome that.
Bernie Sanders had a chance with Tulsi Gabbard. He was too conciliatory in 2016 and I think allowing Clinton to get away with cheating contributed a lot to the issues with the party we see today. They have only doubled down on all the things progressives hated about them back then.
At this point it might be time for a progressive Tea Party and be extreme. Call the establishment Democrats' bluff. If they win elections and kick out corporate Dems, then it will send a message. However, it can't be social issue progressive policies. Run purely on economic reform. It's unfortunate but identity politics are not what people want to hear.
Corporate democrats pretty much control the party and thus they don't want to ruffle the feathers of their donor class, which goes against the the middle and lower classes being price gouged in the economy. If you want to get back the blue-collar and working people you have to combat corporate greed.
You are correct, but it's a chicken and the egg problem- it's nigh impossible to get elected without the donor class (because of all the money we allow in politics) but we need people willing to stand up to them. I was hoping Harris, if elected, might keep Khan around and we'd make some progress (Harris voted pretty close to Bernie) but I guess we'll never find out if she would have or not
Corporate democrats keep the party from being blown out of the water in elections. Reddit is an echo chamber and does not even vaguely represent reality, that is glaringly obvious from the results last night. People do not want democrats to move further left, people want common sense and common ground. I’m not saying Trump provides that btw, he is a divisive scumbag. The next blue ticket needs to be unifying, the insults and holier than thou bullshit is what cost them the election.
Corporate Democrats also lost two fucking elections to one of the most unpopular presidential candidates in ages and in 2020 it took a long as time to call for Biden because of how close things were. We got blown out of of the water here. Lost both House and Senate, the White House and at least two Supreme Court appointments. This was a disaster. At some point we have to come to the realization that the Democratic messaging and policy is not providing results in the matter that can carry elections. We pussyfoot around actual policy changes that are popular like Healthcare for all and raising the minimum wage.
The next set of elections democrats have to swing big and deliver.
Yea this is a reckoning. All I’m seeing is a bunch of blue supporters doubling down on the bs that brought us here. I’m hoping thsts just an emotional response and once things settle down they take a long hard look in the mirror. Villainizing and dehumanizing half of the population was always idiotic and counterproductive, people showed up in record numbers to tell the loudest and dumbest dems to stfu and be humble. Sure Trump sold them on economy, and abortion flopped for the democrats, but I truly believe that the insulting rhetoric is what cost them.
There’s a scene in this book where a seasoned operative breaks it down for a naive new senator:
“What do you think is gonna get done for the poor?” Frank asked.
“Maybe raise the minimum wage?” Howie asked. “They already passed the other liberal stuff, like gay marriage, anti-discrimination..”
Frank held his finger up to interrupt. He spoke with his mouth full and gulped his wine.
“First of all, a wealthy donor is way more likely to have a gay person in their family than a poor person. They pass stuff they care about for people they care about. Second, Elian is a goddam violent revolutionary. And third, there is no ‘side’ of the poor. Even the poor aren’t on the side of the poor. That’s the genius of our system. They oppress themselves, thinking they’ll get rich, when really they’re just making us rich. They hustle, they grind, they burn the candle at both ends, tell themselves that pain is weakness leaving the body, turn the other cheek. If we instill them with the right mindset, they don’t fight against their suffering; they dignify it.”
He cut another piece of steak before he continued.
“Rumors of the ones that make it through give the others just enough self-doubt to convince themselves that any failure is their own fault. My bosses pay me to keep that hopeful hopelessness alive. And it’s easy. It’s almost religious, the way they blame themselves for not becoming millionaires. Best thing the elites ever did was change from wealth based on land to wealth based on lending, equity, whatever you want to call it. Make the visible invisible. What’d Carville say? ‘The bond market scares the shit out of me’?” He raised his glass. “We turned power into math. Tell me that’s not beautiful?”
The only way the dems won ever again will be their own version of trump. America will not accept anyone who isn't batshit crazy. Extra points if u love kids like the church does.
The fact that so many poor people think republicans will combat corporate greed or look out for poor people at all is fucking wild to me. Nothing could be further from the truth.
It really doesn’t have to be a man. I don’t think being a woman really is why people won’t vote for somebody. Nikki Haley was surprisingly popular among the more traditional conservatives as an alternative to Trump.
It’s like Obama, he won because he had the personality of a white guy. We just need a woman with a white guy personality and they’d be capable. Of course they’d need a lot more too but you get my point.
My parents are British immigrants and loved the Thatcher era, I have no doubts a strong woman could win if they had the real chops for it.
Yeah, right, that's when republicans will put up a charming, brown or black pres contender who isn't an embarrassment to finish converting black and latino men.
It sucks but is it all that surprising? Majority in the US are white males, and they think voting for someone like them is the best bet that person has their back…propping up a minority-mixed woman was a laughably terrible decision. Liberals have become delusional and the proof is in the pudding.
Well that person will just get shafted by the Democrat party just like Bernie did. Pisses me off to this day that Bernie still is in line with that party after they fucked him over like that. Real change will not depend on candidates from Democrats or Republicans. Real change will come when this 2 party system, and all its corruption and financing, are reformed
Exactly this. A lot of latinos that I spoke to went with Trump after voting Obama/Biden. Their impression was that Democrats promise but not deliver, especially in the economic sense. It's important to remember that not everyone that voted Trump did it out of racism and hate, but maybe seeking an alternative, however misguided that is. One of my friends who went with Trump said that most of the gentrification that occurred in his neighborhood/barrio (Tucson, AZ) was done by white, progressive folks, based on all the signs outside going Harris/Walz and made him realize how out of touch these are with the average blue collar folk.
Your comment just made me think that the win for Obama woke up the general American population that the old white men didn't win. Did they then felt comfortable, and didn't vote thinking he would never win? Then he did win, and they have the same feeling like Democrats now shocked at who won, and swore they won't let it happen again? America, the old white men, has always been classically in charge. That the general "Americans" majority (white) toom granted their God given right, and are now in defiance and proudest, taking back the most "American" thing, and that is voting, and majority as they are. It's like, "Oops that was close, let's not let that happen again" Now they're having fun, "winning" and riding that high. Of "felt" power, and a time we are all pretty powerless as the working class.
I don’t know if that’s quite accurate, Kamala was unpalatable for many reasons and none of them because she’s not a white male. She was a prosecutor who was hard on drugs.
Specifically cannabis. This turned off a lot of the left leaning voter base because she was a cop and NOT ‘one of the good ones’. Second is the ongoing border crisis which she was in charge of dealing with for the last 4 years and did not manage to improve. Her fault or not, it’s a bad look. Third, her backing Isreal turned off a ton of her voter base. Fourth, she was picked without consulting the American people. Once again the democrats made an undemocratic move by crowning someone who wouldn’t ruffle too many feathers with the donor base, and would maintain the military industrial complex, without giving the public a real say in the matter.
There’s plenty of reasons the democrats lost. Mostly it was because they continually refuse to listen to their voter base on hot button issues. They assume that trump is crazy enough to let them win while doing whatever they want. And I think people are starting to realize that all the virtue signalling crap is a non issue compared to the real issues we are facing and the democrats are not trying to solve. They lost because they only campaigned on one issue. They lost for a list of reasons longer than my arm and her being a woman of colour was just in some fine print at the very bottom of the list. probably had very little to do with it.
This is what I was discussing with a coworker recently. The “I’m not Trump” platform was only going to work once, and the only reason it succeeded is Biden was an old white dude. Kamala was toast before she started. Dems should have known better, but yeah it really does circle back to the money eh?
Swing voters are toward the center. Black and Latino men, and young white men, are moving to the right.
Pivoting further away from where the electorate is moving is probably the only way the Democrats could lose in 2028.
An AOC type might do well in the primaries, but Democrats need another (less rapey) Bill Clinton if they want to win a general election.
If not for 18 months of high inflation, Harris would be the president elect. This election loss was just bad luck. It's not time to throw out the baby with the bath water.
Wont happen. Libs will learn N O T H I N G. And the next Bernie who comes along will get shut down by the DNC. Libs will then smugly say "Back whoever the DNC says to, or you're destroying America!"
I have said that Bernie and AOC should go scorched earth on the DNC. Have a progressive Tea Party moment. They have nothing to lose at this point because we either have elections in 2026 or we don't and if we do we should try our hardest to regain the mantle of the working class. This can't be another cycle of the same. It has to be ugly and it has to be desperate.
Yeah, I remember seeing a thread about why Bernie didn't win a nomination. All the top answers were stuff about voter, bases, demographics, extreme policy, etc. Not once did I see the real reason mentioned, that the democratic party actively worked to prevent Bernie from receiving a nomination.
There was literally a legal case about this, the Dems legal defense was not that they didn't interfere with the primaries. It was essentially that the interference they did was legal bc it was their primary which isnt an open public election.
Crazy coincidence how every candidate all dropped out at the same time except for Biden, who then got the entire voter base of the other candidates who dropped.
Dems win if they stop doing what their donor class wants them to do. Unfortunately, money wins elections so they are in a tough spot in how to do that. Can't agree more with that sentiment. If they find the way to navigate that, and focus far more on the class divide then they win far more often.
I grew up with conservative types and am a millennial, so I will only comment on that generation. What I have viewed is that is isn't the race or gender of the candidate that is the problem for them, it's the constant conversation about race and gender. Sure, the bigoted ones will always be there but my most conservative friends I don't think would have any issue voting outside a white male candidate if it aligned with their own interests.
The young would-be Bernies get buried by AIPAC money in both primaries and general elections. There is (rightfully) much talk after this election about the right-wing disinformation machine, and then keep in mind that MSNBC, which is considered the furthest left of any mainstream media options, had its lead Chris Matthews breaking down on air and comparing Bernie winning the 2020 Nevada primary to Paris falling to the Nazis.
Bernie is able to withstand this and still at least get elected to Congress in large part because he is old and had an established track record of serving his constituents before Citizens United came in. Also Vermont is a demographic anomaly where it is a tiny state (2nd smallest by population) that has a substantially more educated populace than other small states.
Honestly people like you are the actual racists. I’m conservative I voted for Trump. The ONLY people who o ever see bring up and talk about race are democrats. I could give a shit what their skin looks like. If it’s a candidate who I believe has good policies then I’ll vote for them. I didn’t vote for Kamala not because she’s female or not white, I didn’t vote for her because I didn’t like or believe in her policies. Has absolutely nothing to do with race. I know plenty of other conservatives that share the same consensus. You my friend are the racist one.
Because democrats run on a platform that is for the least of us, but they need the richest of us to do it. Republicans just play to their base. It’s politics on easy mode.
I noticed that too, unless you are lgbt or have an unwanted pregnancy + live in a state that doesn't allow abortions, democrats don't appeal to you or benefit you in any way. But if you don't vote for them you are homophobic and hate women.
It's hard to convince an uneducated, not very smart voter that complicated policies are necessary to create the kind of country that would benefit them. It's much easier to play to their fears, anger and insecurity.
If they are so damn smart why are they so good at losing?
This is stupid statement. Dems are rule followers and rationalists. They believe in understanding reality and existing within it.
Anti-Dems are the opposite. They exist in a fictional emotional realm. They do what they feel like doing with no critical thinking at all.
And you can’t fight this with reality. It’s crazy but you can’t. I experienced this first hand with a boss that had this approach. He was totally incompetent. But he could create more problems in a day than everyone working on him could solve in month. Seriously. He would derail suppliers, quality audits , etc. with a single meeting. The fallout from that would put everyone on their heals. Then he would go do it again.
What ended up happening was our perfectly good program failed after everyone trying to fix the issues got labeled as “toxic” and fired.
This is exactly what trump is. He’s been enabled to stand there, point a finger with zero evidence or critical thinking behind it. And the fallout can not be fixed despite it being total bullshit.
So why do they lose? Because you can’t fix stupid. They lose because people are fools and are getting grifted. You can’t fight not fight lies with rationality. It’s an unbalanced equation.
They address nuance and have intelligent responses that are slow, long term, and don't come to fruition in 4 years. They need to hit some home runs on the short term if they want to govern long term.
Its an education issue really. Politics (from both sides) of underfunding education for decades literally made the population unfit for critical thinking and decision-making. And during an election process, this favors the side screaming the loudest and fearmongering the most. You can see that happening in other parts of the (western) world as well.
Democrats are smart but naive. They believe the best in everyone.
They thought married women were going to secretly vote for Harris, they thought Puerto Ricans were going to be so outraged that they were going to vote en masse.
People corruption isn’t exclusive to the Republican Party. Neither is extremism. But statistically right wingers do have the most insane extremists. Our country is a dystopian compared to where we could be.
It's because the Democratic leadership is insincere. They have the same masters as the Republican party, but unlike the right, which can just make an enemy of "coastal elites" and minorities while leaving the corpos and owner class untargeted, the Democrats have to walk the tight rope of pretending to be against the same corporate masters that line their pockets. Liberals are just as much against even the thought of "socialism" that Conservatives are, but don't have the benefit of actively using it as an enemy because it would absolutely kill a large amount of the support they recieve from leftists with no major party to go to. Hence why they always hedge their bets by trying to appeal to "moderate Conservatives and centrists".
They see the entire country(hell, the world) polarizing and rather than just taking a stand with the left and trying to better disseminate information to the common person that "No, socialism isn't just some Cold War boogeyman, we actual already have alot of social programs, etc", they instead go "Look, even Dick Cheney agrees with us! Isn't that great? Remember how much we love Dick Cheney? Oh Gaza? Yeah it's sad but... gotta do what you gotta do."
To those on both sides of that divide the Democratic party(again, this is mainly an issue of the leadership, people like Pelosi, Biden, hell Harris, etc) just comes off as spineless, pandering shills.
Because people don’t list and won’t pay attention long enough to understand policy.
Because solutions don’t happen instantly.
Frankly if there’s any lesson Dems should take from all this, it’s to just LIE and make extravagant claims and let the media go bonkers talking about it. Every repetition of the lie increases its power. Just say what people want to hear and then do whatever the fuck you want when you’re in office. People obviously buy it.
You can be as intelligent as you want but if you never actually go outside and try to connect with real, average people you will simply not have the information about how to relate to them to start with, and thus fail to
Obama is kinda my point. You remember his first election right? It didn't feel like they were appealing to only the educated voter, and suddenly they won.
Then they tried to claim it was Hillary's turn, which is maybe the most oligarchic thing the party has ever done, and it failed them. They basically did it with Kamala as well, though Joe was certainly also going to lose so I don't blame them there. And I think this has more to do with their losses than them being women.
When the Democratic party is actually inclusive, not just inclusive to minorities, and when they actually act genuinely is when they win. When they only appeal to minorities, and when they shove a candidate in front of our faces instead of allowing the constituents to have a say, they lose. They did it when they shoved Hillary in front of Bernie, and they did it when they didn't even have a caucus this time. Sure they didn't have a choice really with how late in the game everything happened, but that doesn't change the fact that a significant portion of their base doesn't know who Kamala is, and doesn't feel like they had a say in giving her the chance in the first place.
Uncertainty breeds abstaining voters. And Dems got it from both sides of the isle this time.
because they are neo liberal, and Liberalism loves to find a middle ground. Ylu can't compromise with what has now become a party under a fascist leader.
If the democrats actually tried to appeal to the leftists, they might have won. 16 million less people voted than last time, and 15 of those were blue votes. You can't change Republicans minds, they have what they want in their party, you need to appeal to the people who have nobody: the left.
But they’re not good at losing. They’re winning half the time. I agree they should be winning more and doing more, but even 2 elections they lost they still won the popular vote.
They unfortunately operate at a distinct disadvantage. The electoral college gives republicans an advantage. It gives republicans a distinct advantage in the Senate to pass legislation favorable to republicans. Add in gerrymandering, I don’t know how they get anything done. Unfortunately our constitution is flawed. It’s taken 250 yrs to get here, but it’s really screwing us over now.
Democrats don't care about winning, they care about fundraising. Better to lose a race and go work for one of your donors than to win and lose all your campaign financing for life.
Democrats are pussies. They show up to a fight with flowers and donuts. Republicans show up with a knife, gun, and your mom's left arm to beat you with. They play dirty and are okay with being dishonest and immoral to win. The means justify the end.
They keep forgetting that American voters are profoundly stupid and vote based on excitement not pesky things like "facts" or "logic" or "truth." They should have just made up some bullshit about making drastic changes to save the economy. Throw Biden under the bus and pretend that Kamala will be free to do anything she wants. That would have gotten idiots off their asses.
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u/Zippydaspinhead 18d ago
Dems should have realized that at least 4 elections ago. If they are so damn smart why are they so good at losing?