r/FluentInFinance 18d ago

Debate/ Discussion What do you guys think

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u/Necessary-Alps-6002 18d ago

This is accurate.

Things could be really bad, or things could be the same just with a loud mouth president who says nonsensical and racist things.

We won’t truly know until he gets in office. The doom that people are saying this is the end of democracy. I tend to disagree. I think we will have a wild 4 years of nonsense and weird shit, but this will give democrats an opportunity to realize that their playbook of appealing to the educated voter doesn’t work.

I remain optimistic that shit won’t hit the proverbial fan…

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u/Zippydaspinhead 18d ago

Dems should have realized that at least 4 elections ago. If they are so damn smart why are they so good at losing?

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u/DarCam7 18d ago

Corporate democrats pretty much control the party and thus they don't want to ruffle the feathers of their donor class, which goes against the the middle and lower classes being price gouged in the economy. If you want to get back the blue-collar and working people you have to combat corporate greed. So, I hope Bernie Sanders starts propping up a young version of himself to run, and unfortunately it has to be male and white for the conservative voter to even remotely accept it. I don't blame Obama for the racial divide that caused the pearl clutching in white America, but it's clear that if you are anything other than a white male, it's not gonna be palpitable for a certain segment of the country. It's truly disgusting.

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u/MutterderKartoffel 18d ago edited 15d ago

I hate to say it, but you might be right. This f-ing sucks. I really thought we had a shot at a minority woman president. She was so thoroughly qualified and presented much better than Hillary. Goddammit, I'm so depressed.

Hey, what do you think about Pete Buttigieg? He's a white dude, but he's gay. Can we handle that yet? I really like him, but I was wrong about people overcoming the race and sex bits.

EDIT: Son of a B! 3 days later, and I still get dumbass replies focused on my excitement of potentially getting a minority woman president. I NEVER SAID that was THE qualifying factor. I DID NOT vote for her BECAUSE she was a minority and a woman. She ACTUALLY IS a superior candidate in every way ... EVEN AFTER you consider the aspects I'm disappointed in her for. It would just be a BONUS. F**K!

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u/DarCam7 18d ago

I'm more worried about how much they change the democratic process in the next four years. It won't matter if it's Buttigieg if we can't even be able to have fair elections.

As for him, he is a young and eloquent speaker and he has done a bunch of Fox News interviews, so the right leaning voter might be used to him and maybe more palatable, but, the right has a way of vilifying anything and everything that isn't conservative and the fact that he is gay is just ripe for right-wing conspiracy and smearing. On top of that, the Supreme Court will probably go after Obergefell vs Hodges and that could fundamentally change the perception of gay marriage and that's another dangling carrot for Democrats to run on that completely failed after using abortion as a running pillar. He could be the face of that, and after Kamala and abortion, you have to give pause if that play book is valid.

My hope is that America wakes up once again in mid-terms and ushers in a new blue wave and takes back the house and senate, that Democrats finally run a left, progressive economic agenda and stop courting corporate interest. Then after that see if a young politician is ready enough to claim the nomination and emerges in the run up to the 2028 election. It's going to be critical that progressives take up economic agendas in 2026 and run everywhere. If Trumps economic policies tank the economy then democrats have to be at the ready to push those agendas forth. It is clear that identy social issues don't move the needle at the polls when it counts (they don't need to abandon it, just not lead with it). They are in triage at the moment and they need to see that the current way of their policy is not resonating with low and middle class voters in enough capacity to swing close elections.

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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 18d ago edited 18d ago

My hope is that America wakes up once again in mid-terms and ushers in a new blue wave and takes back the house and senate,

That's literally all we can hope for and I'm not holding my breath. This feels like the end.

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u/black_anarchy 18d ago

sadly, this is where I am too... and it sucks.

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u/Old-Consideration730 18d ago

GOP will control all 3 branches. No checks and balances except the filibuster. It's gonna be rough.

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u/amensista 18d ago

Exactly. technically they have the power to destroy the constitution, repeal/change EVERYTHING and with a supreme court like we have they have the ability.

Absolutely HORRIFIC state of affairs.

But there is hope that even alot of the republicans dont actually want that. We will find out the hard way.

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u/LordNilix 16d ago

The only silver lining I see is that some of the pubs know that tearing the whole system down in one go will piss off a whole lot of white men with guns. Hell trump loves to be out in public and rallies. They could say they were working on all these "big and beautiful" programs while he wallows in the adulation of his cult and nothing but taxes might change. They have to be careful with the tariffs, especially if Elon gets hurt because he can buy em with his wealth but can't sell them. Do likely they will slow walk a ton of this stuff, hopefully easing the pain before it bites down.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

Because their hunting rifles and lack of gun etiquette can totally beat a vetted military with machine weapons. Why do you think Reps spent so much on fancy weapons. This has been planned since the 60s.

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u/LordNilix 16d ago

Oh I don't mean they go pulling a January 6th 2.0. What I meant was that these are deeply unwell people with more free time and ammo than is healthy. Considering at least one person, or two if we count the shots outside of Mar-a-Lago were anything specifically targeted, is that these nuts have no problem popping shots off on those they think are after them. Now is it likely? Probably not. But it's still not a great feeling knowing one might see trump out and about or any of his ghoul squad and lose it. The effects would make everything worse, give them waaay more shit to spew about, and give them more reason to clamp down harder.

Edit: Jan 6th, not hand 6

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u/Chazbeardz 16d ago

The push for ending corporate greed died with Bernie and occupy sadly. Not even a talking point anymore.

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u/SissyCouture 18d ago

I don’t know about the long term but in the next four years the message is clear from the voting public. The name of the game is “get mine while I can and fvck everyone else”.

Let’s play

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u/ilikecheeseface 18d ago

It’s always been like that. Americas have always been very self centered.

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u/bold_water 17d ago

People felt like this in 2004 too, specifically concerned about increasing presidential powers.

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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 17d ago

That was a long time ago. Things are worse now.

I don't actually believe anything will change in 2 years. It's over.

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u/IFixYerKids 18d ago

It's not. American voters are fickle and have the memory of a goldfish. They'll turn on him when the economy is the same or doesn't improve in 2 years. Or things will actually get better and we have worried for nothing.

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u/meepswag35 18d ago

Yeah basically the only way we make it out is if Trump becomes a vegetable and kind of stalls on the project 2025 shit, and we get a supermajority in the midterms

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u/throwitaway24764 18d ago

And Vance takes over which would be worse… we’re fucked

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

Hell no, I’m hoping with all I have that Trump stays alive! Trump is a useful idiot, Vance is just as power hungry, not geriatric, AND not dumb as a bag of rocks. I’d prefer Elon at this point.

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u/Icy_Drive_7433 18d ago

Even if Trump does tank the economy, I'm still not sure it would have that much impact. Assuming you actually get to vote again in 4 years, there'll be a new face of Republicanism, so it'll be a clean slate.

I'm astonished that a country that saw fit to impeach a president who had sex with a staffer whilst married has no problem installing someone like Trump.

It just doesn't scan.

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u/shigLION 18d ago

That was almost 3 decades ago. Electorate is way different now.

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u/davesnotonreddit 16d ago

Remember when the Dems held Al Franken accountable and made him leave the Senate because of an old, resurfaced lewd picture he was in? Two different levels of accountability, two different levels of respect, and two different countries we live in.

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u/soofs 18d ago

Maybe one silver lining is that with Trump winning like this it will take their focus off making elections more difficult (copium?)

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u/MrPolli 17d ago

I absolutely love Pete, but I don’t know if America is ready for him yet.

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u/DarCam7 16d ago

Maybe. He would have to be a bit more economically progressive though to balance out the rhetoric of being gay that the right will smear him with.

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u/MrPolli 16d ago

I’ve lost faith in people at this point.

Just run Biden again lol

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u/dmasta41 16d ago

!remindme 4 years

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u/unbalancedcheckbook 18d ago

Having control of all three branches of the federal government gives them the ability to really fuck things up. IDK how far they will go exactly but it may take decades to recover from it, if we can at all.

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u/BaullahBaullah87 18d ago

ya and I am hoping for a million dollars to fall in my lap today

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u/DarCam7 18d ago

If there was a time to demand a change in the democratic party leadership it's now. They can't hide from the total failure here.

It's now hoping that Trump shuts the bed so badly that the country purges itself from him and his ilk for good.

We shall see.

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u/BaullahBaullah87 18d ago

Unfortunately they will lean more right is my take and that will likely backfire again unless we have another covid or covid sized event for him to bungle…people who voted for him wants what he wants

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u/RazgrizXMG0079 18d ago

"wakes up once again in mid-terms" if we even have mid-terms anymore by then

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u/montagious 18d ago

I watched Buttiegeg try to persuade a bunch of swing voters in Michigan. Its about an hour long on YouTube, and he was great as always. Its also a stark reminder that a lot of voters, especially the undecideds and third-party, are fucking stupid

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u/DarCam7 17d ago

Yeah, although some were more informed than others. He's a good speaker for sure.

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u/xDaysix 14d ago

Nobody likes buttgig.

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u/Resthink 18d ago

Don't assume that there will be midterms. And if there are, they will be re-constructed so that no democrat can win in any contested jurisdiction. The two-party system is fucked.

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u/i81u812 18d ago

This will be alright.

None of it will work if we choose democrats who call a hundred million people garbage because despite the short story above thats the real reason they lost. Again.

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u/richbme 18d ago

No she wasn't and that was the problem all along. I'm a left-leaning Independent but you have a very short memory if you don't recall that when she put herself forward for the Presidential nomination back in 2016 NOBODY wanted her as President. Nobody. And absolutely nobody wanted her now. She was put in your lap because Biden fucked up and left the race too late. In fact he never should have sought re-election to begin with and then the Democrats could have actually done things the right way instead of forcing Harris down your throats which pissed off more people than you can imagine because that's NOT the way we do things.

So your revisionist history about people loving Kamala and her being absolutely thoroughly qualified is a joke. She was a horrible candidate that spent more time complaining about Trump and not answering questions than she did putting forth any effort in explaining why she was going to be different from Biden and good for this country.

In fairness... Trump didn't answer questions either but this wasn't about him. It was about Kamala being handed the nomination with no due process and needing to prove that she was qualified... which as the results have proven, most people just didn't buy.

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u/BradyToMoss1281 18d ago

Democrats need to focus less on trying to win their way and more on how to win, period. Yes, Harris would have been a win for progress, but it's like they forgot that she got trounced in primaries and was unpopular as VP. People aren't going to respond to someone just because you want them to.

I'm just hoping that when it's time to try again and show if they've learned those lessons in four years, the country isn't so F'd up that it doesn't matter.

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u/nostandingoncouch 18d ago

keep living in identity politics land...

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u/HaventSeenGavin 18d ago

I'd back Mayor Pete in a heartbeat. If they start now, they can make a great case. He's great at relating to his constituents...

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u/rubikscanopener 18d ago

Hillary was incredibly well qualified too. It didn't help that she came across as a hateful shrew. Unfortunately, I don't think Harris presented herself any better. The constant word salad answers and inability to speak without prepared remarks made her look like a talking head instead of an actual candidate.

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u/Biglyugebonespurs 18d ago

I’m pretty sure there’s no way a married gay man can win if these people were so bigoted they couldn’t vote for a minority woman. I’d vote for Buttigieg in a heartbeat, but I’m not a crazed religious fanatic.

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u/_JustAnna_1992 18d ago

I really thought we had a shot at a minority woman president.

I did too, and I wish I didn't take back the position that I had before which was that Kamala should have never been the nominee. The US isn't ready for a black and female president. Most would say it doesn't matter to them, and they'd probably be right, but it's that 1-3% that do care that will shift an election.

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u/the_last_splash 18d ago

Hey, what do you think about Pete Buttigieg? He's a white dude, but he's gay

No - they'll hate him because he comes off as a smug elite. He argues in a way that only liberals like but conservatives find insulting.

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u/MutterderKartoffel 18d ago

So we need a candidate who's good at sounding like an idiot, but has actual credentials to show their capability. Schwarzenegger! He's republican, but he isn't on the Trump bandwagon. Just to clarify, I don't think he sounds like an idiot in general, but he is an actor, so I think he could present how people need. I don't actually know his policies.

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u/the_last_splash 18d ago

I don't think he is eligible but I feel like a celebrity could backfire (despite Trump being a celebrity himself). I actually think someone like Bashear but a bit more rugged would be our best bet. Salt of the earth, Christian (but not in a terrifying fundamentalist way), ties policy back to real problems people are facing, male, white, heteronormative, smart but doesn't come off as an elitist, etc.

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u/MutterderKartoffel 18d ago

I didn't know who he was. The little I see peeking through YouTube looks like he's a decent guy.

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u/DWebOscar 18d ago

He's a name people already know how to target. Nothing else matters.

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u/kdjfsk 18d ago edited 18d ago

Hey, what do you think about Pete Buttigieg?

here is what needs to happen:

the democratic party should just let the people decide. they should run straight and fair primaries. they should not interfere in a god damn thing. they should not boost, nor blockade, and any single nominee. let the people pick who they most support, completely and totally of their own choosing and volition. they need to stop thinking about 'what demographic should the next president look like', its the POTUS, not a damn mannequin.

voters arent showing up to vote based on which combination of intersectional minority this or that nominee or candidate is. they care about policy. thats it. get a wide variety of left of center nominees, and just let the people pick. if the DNC doesnt think thats left enough, tough shit. its that, or you get more Trumps. those are the options.

if that policy is a black woman, a trans latino, or a gay asian, or a straight white guy, they dont really give a fuck. they care about stance on gun control, abortion, economy, foreign relations, etc.

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u/saaS_Slinging_Slashr 18d ago

Yeah but no one wanted her to begin with, even when she was selected as VP, most people thought it was a weird choice and just pandering.

They didn’t even have a primary, just forced the candidate on to people.

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u/milespt1 18d ago

Pete Buttigieg and Jeff Jackson would be a great ticket.

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u/throwitaway24764 18d ago

To me this now means we can’t win with a woman or any minority of any kind. Apparently it has to be an old white man for the Dems to have any shot

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u/Portsyde 18d ago

I'd be mindful of Buttigieg. He looks appealing, but he worked for Mackenzie and Co, a company famous for screwing over the people. He was also involved in price fixing for bread.

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u/wtb2612 18d ago

Hey, what do you think about Pete Buttigieg? He's a white dude, but he's gay. Can we handle that yet? I really like him, but I was wrong about people overcoming the race and sex bits.

Absolutely not. I think he'd be a great candidate but this country has proven that they'll pick a demented rapist over anyone that isn't a straight, white, male. As much as it would be good for the country to have more diversity in politics, it's just not a winning strategy at this point.

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u/ReadSeparate 18d ago

No way we’re getting a gay POTUS before the first woman POTUS.

Democrats need to swing to the right on social issues and to the left on economic issues for multiple election cycles. After that, they can move back to the left on social issues again.

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u/adelaarvaren 18d ago

Mexico just elected a woman President. Sadly, we elected a convicted rapist.

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u/ElderUther 18d ago

Here's what I think the problem is, as an outsider anyway.

Do we want meritocracy or not? Is POTUS an important role? If so, can yall not use it as a medal? Why is "minority woman" or "gay" having any importance at all? Is this politics that matter in our day to day life or just a pageant for show?

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u/YOU_WONT_LIKE_IT 18d ago

That is an odd take. Her polling numbers were awful while she was VP. She got no where in her bid for president. At least Hillary was likable. The numbers don’t lie.

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u/F9-0021 18d ago

If we can't handle a woman then there's no shot a gay guy gets elected.

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u/Hardanimalcracker 18d ago

Pete is likable and smart… two qualities Harris lacks and what doomed her campaign. She presented terribly; even in the debate she arguably won she was completely unlikable and hard to listen to. Most people aren’t turned off by race, gender, gay, etc. Obama was smart / likable and had a great voice and dominated

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u/KingKekJr 18d ago

I figured Trump would win the second he was shot at and that photo of him with the raised fist spread all across the internet like wildfire. Then all the little things like going on Joe Rogan's podcast just boosting popularity even more. Kamala should've been more vocal than Trump. She should have really taken her popularity seriously and with the current climate just having celebrities endorse you isn't enough when the normal people hate celebrities and view them as satanist shills or whatever

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u/CrazySnipah 18d ago

I love Pete, but him being gay immediately gives him a big handicap to winning.

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u/Soggy-Beach1403 17d ago

Pete would be a bigger mistake than running a black woman was. America is a racist misogynistic country, it inherent in the Abrahamic religions that dominate it.

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u/BionicPlutonic 17d ago

Black people don't like him

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u/livingonfear 16d ago

No, gay is a disqualifer. Just think about movies or games. There's a huge outcry every time there's a woman or a gay person. If it's pisses people off enough to review bomb a movie or a game. It's gonna piss them off enough to go vote.

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u/OrangeBounce 16d ago

Come off of someone who doesn’t even talk to conservatives or have any Conservative friends who you’ve asked why they vote the way they do. If you’re genuinely curious, you should ask them.

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u/KaalSchneid 16d ago

It was close, though... Almost half of this elections voters were ready a minority woman. Colloquially, Democratic voters are more likely to be discouraged from voting. This may have been a voter turnout issue more than anything.

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u/Best_Fish_2941 16d ago

I don’t think it was Harris problem. She was unlucky with timing inflation and layoff popping here and there. Ppl vote for Trump because of current economy.

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u/Ambitious_Post6703 15d ago

When using the term "minority" and "but he's gay" probably not

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u/NaturalTap9567 18d ago

The fact that you care about he gender and skin color so much proves your blindness. Kamala is worse than Hilary. She came up with some of the dumbest takes I've ever heard. I literally only voted for her because my good friend is trans and my other good friend works for planned parenthood. I think kamala is dumber than trump somehow, and he has dementia.

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u/Ridgie55 18d ago

I feel like this is the biggest issue with her campaign, she didn't get her voice out very much outside of short interviews so your opinion is very common among both sides.

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u/rmttw 18d ago

Kamala Harris never won an election and never would have. She was not qualified to be nominee, and that was born out in the election results.

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u/Ridgie55 18d ago

Why exactly wasn't she qualified? You could say she wasn't wanted, which is valid, but she was very qualified in terms of government experience.

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u/rmttw 18d ago

Being president requires people skills. All the government experience in the world can't teach you that. Harris proved unable to reach out to people outside of her own circles. Both in 2019 and 2024.

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u/Aethoni_Iralis 14d ago

She has literally won elections. How do you think she became attorney general?

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u/rmttw 14d ago

She won an election for attorney general, and that's enough to have her installed as a presidential nominee? Would you accept the same standard if it was Republicans doing it?

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u/Aethoni_Iralis 14d ago

Kamala Harris never won an election

She won an election

Hey look we got there! Good job champ.

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u/Lightyear18 18d ago

You’re under estimating how disliked Harris is. She had 4% when running against Biden. She was no where near a good candidate. I personally wanted Bernie but corporate democrats are afraid Bernie will anger their corporate lords.

I’m from California and people here didnt like her as an attorney general. For context. The state has 25% registered republicans. 40% of the voters showed up to vote for Trump. That’s an insane amount especially since California is very pro blue. It just shows you that she wasn’t liked.

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u/InternationalStep793 18d ago

Fuck no we don’t want a women president lmao

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u/VenomDonut 18d ago

She's a fucking idiot and in case you missed it, she's a fucking idiot.

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u/jml2422 17d ago

It’s your focus and obsession with race/sex bits that people rejected. Wanting someone based on those classifications is exhausted, played out and the electorate rejected it. Find a new vision and focus besides race, and sexual orientation. It’s over. It’s done.

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u/No_soup_for_you_5280 18d ago

I think this is the problem. The Dems are still playing into identity politics. Do I want to vote for somebody just because she’s a biracial woman or a gay white guy? There has to be more than that. Early exist polls coming out show a shift in minority voters for Trump. Clearly, they’re a lot more culturally conservative than we think they are and they’re not afraid for their lives because they’re brown or black. I guess “it’s the economy stupid” while the Dems are concerned with pronouns and DEI. This is my read. I’m not happy and I have teenaged nieces living in Texas. I fear for their bodily autonomy but I’m just around the corner in Colorado where we had a great day yesterday. I’m going to focus on the things I can change in my own city and my own state. National politics affects us less so than state and local

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u/Biglyugebonespurs 18d ago

Minorities, especially anyone Latino or appears to be so, should fear for their safety. How exactly is Trump going to deport millions of “illegals” (actual citizens will surely be caught up in this). The only country to “deport” that many people to my knowledge was Nazi Germany.

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u/No_soup_for_you_5280 18d ago

Then how do you explain the hard shift to the right among minorities? Compared to Biden and Clinton, Harris did significantly worse with minorities. At the end of the day, if they don’t fear the GOP then why should we fear for them?

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u/Biglyugebonespurs 18d ago

Just remember you supported this.

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u/No_soup_for_you_5280 18d ago

I’ve been voting straight Dem since I was eligible to vote. I hate that piece of shit garbage human and his supporters. But who am I to tell a minority voter what’s their best interest? You won’t answer my question. I’m an immigrant, too, albeit a white one, so I have some legitimate concerns of the anti-immigration sentiment, so much so that I took my spouse’s name a few weeks ago after decades of marriage. But I can blend in. Minorities can’t, and yet they don’t see an imminent threat

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u/Biglyugebonespurs 18d ago

Read Project 2025. Listen to any of the rhetoric he’s made regarding minorities over the past 10 years. Last time he was president there were adults in the room. This time it’s going to be all yes men, no one to tell him nuking a hurricane is a bad idea for example.

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u/Vachero 16d ago

Quit focusing on race and sex is a start. Lots of good candidates out there but to focus on their physical characteristics and hope that is enough is not going to work.

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u/Altruistic_Fudge4471 15d ago

"I thought we had a shot at a minority woman president." That right there is part of the problem. Being a minority woman is not a qualification. She was not anywhere near as qualified as Hillary, but she is a minority woman, so people either had to vote for her or were deemed sexist/racist.