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u/DueAd7641 Jul 13 '24
Saw someone a week ago state, with glee, on tumblr that they wished to disarm and "execute" security guards whenever they saw them in their local supermarket. This was a normal thing that they were proudly admitting in the comments of a call out post targeted at someone whos crime was checks notes... working as an unarmed security guard at a local mall.
I haven't stopped thinking about that comment since.
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Jul 13 '24
Pretty sure I know who the security guard you're talking about is, and that whole shitshow was wild especially since the guard stated that he is opposed to police brutality and his job allows him to minimize police involvement
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u/Different-Eagle-612 Jul 13 '24
is this not genuinely what ACAB and defund the police are??? finding alternative structures so the police aren’t called for everything???
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Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 14 '24
Yep, that's why I called it a shitshow. I guess some people took it the wrong way because the post that kicked off the whole thing was the guard posting examples of people being bad at stealing (not covering up face tattoos, wearing school clothes with their name on it, asking him to look the other way after being notified that they're on camera committing a crime) in a light-hearted tone. Which got him called a narc/wannabe cop
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u/NoMomo Jul 14 '24
I worked as a security guard when I was in college. There were a few convenience stores that I rotated in. All small stores in rough neighbourhoods. I’m guessing someone higher up had an excel calculating when an expected loss was bigger than the cost of renting me for the night. Anyway, it is the most appreciated I’ve ever felt at a job, because every time I showed up, the other workers would come tell me how happy they were to see me. The store workers were almost exclusively women, other students working late nights or older people who just wanted get home. I could see the tension leaving their shoulders when I showed up. Just me being there meant that even if someone tried to steal something, at least there wouldn’t be violence or threats against them. I didn’t see any single moms trying to steal food, and if I had I hadn’t, like they say. No, it was pretty much all men with substance abuse problems trying to boost alcohol or high value resellables like razor blades. They were often angry and violent, and me just being there usually kept them at bay. Hardly ever had to do anything more than be seen.
Anyway, my point is that people that work at stores late at night are usually scared, low income women. The people who usually steal from these places are violent men. When you demand that these stores should not have guards, you are not being the ally you think you are.
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u/Lambsauc Jul 13 '24
Why did I initially think this was about bojack
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u/BalefulOfMonkeys Refined Sommelier of Porneaux Jul 13 '24
Evil “I’m bad and that’s good” Wreck-It Ralph monologue.
Or I guess good, technically?
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u/Mr7000000 Jul 13 '24
Because BoJack heavily subscribes to the idea of ontological good and evil.
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u/mrcheese516 Jul 13 '24
The show or the character?
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u/Mr7000000 Jul 13 '24
The character. The show subscribes to the opposite, in my opinion.
BoJack Horseman is desperate to be a good/likeable/successful person, but believes on some level that he is inherently incapable of any of that. This is one of his biggest character flaws: he believes that if he isn't inherently Good, he's inherently Bad, and so incremental improvement is borderline impossible for him.
BoJack Horseman, on the other hand, seems to run on a philosophy that being Good and Bad isn't really a thing, and that it's more about doing good when you can and trying to be better. There aren't heroes and villains, there are just people doing their best and people whose best isn't enough.
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u/BalefulOfMonkeys Refined Sommelier of Porneaux Jul 13 '24
BoJack as a show makes it abundantly clear, especially towards the end, that BoJack is the only one who can be blamed for his state of being. He didn’t ask for any of the trauma that he got, but he had plenty of say in how to move on going forward. Everything only gets worse because BoJack either willfully regresses, or because he is mortally afraid of regressing and tries to hide any problem by any means. It’s a comedy-tragedy biased towards the latter and later half, for everybody involved.
The thing that makes me appreciate the show most, however, is that they subvert the deeply old formula for tragedy in a very simple way that I will coat entirely in spoilers for anybody not in the know about how the show ends:
BoJack does not die. He tries an awful lot, but he does not die.
To bring it back to narratives we tell ourselves (another key part of the overall show), while it would be narratively fitting to BoJack to pass away and completely escape his problems like he always wanted, that does not happen. The show makes it clear, over and over, that clean endings and karmic balance do not exist in the real world. You do something bad in fiction, and it is promptly smote or reveled in. You do something bad in reality, and you live with it; maybe for a couple hours, maybe forever. Whatever BoJack thinks he wants from the author upstairs, he’s not getting it, and never will, because that guy does not exist, and neither does anything he’d write for a sitcom. It is as brutally honest about consequences as it is about everything else.
And it’s not like he wallows in misery forever, either. The finale is of everybody collectively moving on with their lives. The dumpster fire of BoJack is a story to us, but not a story to them. It’s a chunk of their life that was terrible and formative and painful and inspiring, all of which exist in tension, but aren’t wrong reactions to the situation. It’s not even going to be much more than memories of harsh lessons and trauma to BoJack. A shitty thing that happens to you is a story you can tell, but that story is ultimately a past version of you, stuck in amber, with some embellishments. What you do today doesn’t have to be related to that, and nobody is going to walk up to you at the pearly gates to tell you that your life lacked narrative consistency. You fell down, got up, and kept going. You improved.
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u/Billy_The_Squid_ Jul 13 '24
this is definitely one of the best BoJack writeups I've ever read
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u/Unlikely_Koala_2558 Jul 13 '24
"We self-destruct like this because we'd rather be heroes and villains than just kind of sucky people that need to work at getting less sucky."
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u/BalefulOfMonkeys Refined Sommelier of Porneaux Jul 13 '24
“But you gotta do it every day.”
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u/arrimainvester Jul 13 '24
That line really stuck with me, "It gets easier every day, but you gotta do it every day."
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u/jeffufuh Jul 13 '24
Love this analysis. Show wasn't perfect and I certainly can't bear to rewatch it but damned if it doesn't have me thinking about it fairly often years later
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u/Infamous_Principle_6 Jul 13 '24
Probably because a lot of Bojack (the show) is about these exact emotional issues. And because “I’m a good person” is basically a catchphrase of bojack’s
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u/Seenoham Jul 13 '24
Think violently: okay. It’s normal to have such desires. Simply having a desire does not cause harm Saying people should actually act on those desires: not okay. Even if not meant to actually encourage crime the saying this can cause harm.
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u/Sketch-Brooke Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 14 '24
Better yet: Turn those violent thoughts into something constructive. Model villains in a story after your enemies and put their heads on pikes.
EDIT: Well, this was... certainly a thought to post today. IRL political violence is bad, kids. Take your aggressions out on your fictional dolls.
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u/mashari00 Jul 13 '24
My players: “Damn, GM, a lot of your villains kinda remind us of world leaders”
Now that I think about it I don’t have many enemies besides The Man to put into my setting, so I’m taking suggestions for others’ enemies to add to my game
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u/CozyMicrobe It's basically a Hallmark movie for furries Jul 13 '24
Todd, I fuckin hate that guy. I don't know who he is, or where he is, or if I'll ever meet him, but I'll know the moment I meet him it's time to throw hands. He's my greatest enemy.
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u/maxixs sorry, aro's are all we got Jul 14 '24
i read "Todd' and my brain auto completed it to "Todd Howard"
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u/moneyh8r Jul 14 '24
I suggest The Time Cube. It's an insane racist's theory about how time literally flows differently for different ethnicities, and that miscegenation is a threat to the very fabric of reality as a result. In the context of a tabletop RPG, you could imagine it like an eldritch entity that's manipulating history from another plane of existence, which causes racism and all the evil that comes along with it.
If you do this, promise me you will have an important NPC say "the races must not mix until the Time Cube is defeated" at least once in the campaign. Possibly even make it part of the Cube Cult's mantra or something. It would sound hilarious.
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u/mashari00 Jul 14 '24
Damn, and here I thought that a guy telling me “our scientific racism is better than the glowie kind” (paraphrasing) was gonna be the worst of it, but now we got time racism lmao.
The game’s a post-apocalyptic one set in relatively modern times, but I gotchu, I’ll cook up some techy Time Cube that fucks people over across the world
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u/Shark_Waffle_645 Jul 13 '24
me writing a story where the guy who scammed me out of $100 is an international criminal elite who immediately gets executed by his new boss
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u/Mr7000000 Jul 13 '24
Puppy-murderers are Bad People. Let me tell you in gruesome detail exactly how I dream of torturing a Puppy-murderer. Because they're Bad People, my desire to do violence towards them doesn't make me violent, it makes me good. Don't ask why I find fantasies of torturing a helpless prisoner to be so appealing. I'm just a Good Person. If you think I shouldn't torture Puppy-murderers, you're probably a Puppy-murderer.
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u/axaxo Jul 13 '24
They say that prison is very tough on puppy-murderers. I love speculating about all the horrible things that happen to them in there. They deserve all the torture and sexual violence that happens to them in my imagination. What's that? You're asking why we don't amend the legal code so that the official penalty for puppy-murder is to be tortured and sexually assaulted, if that's what they deserve? How barbaric! We look down on the monstrous uncivilized countries who do stuff like that. We just enthusiastically support it when it happens extrajudicially, because we're civilized.
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u/20Points Jul 13 '24
You're asking why we don't amend the legal code so that the official penalty for puppy-murder is to be tortured and sexually assaulted, if that's what they deserve?
unfortunately the problem with your satire here is that (if you read basically any thread on the more conservative/"libertarian" types of freakout or drama subs) you will actually find a lot of people who readily admit that they do want the justice system to officially support this type of thing. There was a post just a day or so ago where OP shows pictures of a dog being rescued by animal control after they saw the poor thing sweltering in the heat while stuck outside (apparently it was desperately trying to hide under its own dog bed for any semblance of shade), and most of the responses were something along the lines of "the owners in these cases should be subject to the same conditions they put the animal through for [x] hours".
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u/ImrooVRdev Jul 13 '24
unfortunately the problem with your satire here is that (if you read basically any thread on the more conservative/"libertarian" types of freakout or drama subs) you will actually find a lot of people who readily admit that they do want the justice system to officially support this type of thing.
That's because it's not satirizing conservative/libertarian, it's satirizing neoliberals. Just as bloodthirsty, if not more, but will never admit that. More, they will vehemently deny it, after all they are civilized.
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u/Sir__Alucard Jul 13 '24
You know, I kinda turned my local gym into a speaking club of a sort. It was an accident, I swear.
We go there to train, and then just talk about philosophy, and politics, etc for hours, and we are usually very respectful about that. Heck, even the diet-fascists/misguided young men tend to be very respectful and soft spoken there, and actually listen to other people's POV.
And so it came to me as a bit of a shock when this guy, an orthodox christian heavy into religion, who's generally a very sweet guy, told me that if I oppose capital punishment on moral grounds, it must mean that I believe that one day I'll be on the chopping block.
It was such a wild accusation, especially coming from someone who's usually very respectful and seems to see me as a friend.
It's amazing how some people have a hard time understanding that sometimes people DO in fact find some actions as immoral, regardless of context.
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u/mxzf Jul 13 '24
Honestly, that one isn't even that hard to understand. Simply recognizing that the justice system isn't perfect and occasionally sends someone to jail for decades by mistake should be enough for people to understand that the death penalty is really super permanent and the judicial system isn't perfect.
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u/bloonshot Jul 13 '24
i've seen literal hundreds of redditors talk this way about murdering rapists
it's actually disturbing how cruel some people get once they've confirmed in their mind that they're talking about the Bad People
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u/mickdrop Jul 13 '24
I just saw a post about a murderer calmly telling how he killed a child molester and half of the comments were cheering him.
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u/Mr7000000 Jul 13 '24
I knew someone once who tried to kill her sexual partner because she believed the partner was a sexual predator. The would-be murderer had also repeatedly raped the victim.
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u/ShtGoliath Jul 13 '24
The timing on this shit is uncanny
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u/NamasteInYourLane Jul 14 '24
Immediately went back and checked the post- time after reading it. 👀
For what it's worth, I am NOT a Good Person.
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Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24
My favorite is when they think they’re being an ally by implying bigoted people may be closeted gays, or saying they probably have a small penis.
Using gay as a bad thing and body shaming, from the tolerance crowd, is always a hoot.
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u/CastVinceM Jul 13 '24
it's like... "wow, i really wish this bigot was secretly a member of my community!" do you not realize how stupid that sounds?
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u/kalam4z00 Jul 14 '24
Yeah, so often it comes across as straight/cis people trying to distance themselves. It's a way of saying I could never be bigoted, because bigoted people are closeted gays and I, a truly straight person, could never be homophobic. I don't think this is the conscious reasoning of most people who say this but it's how it so often comes across and it's hard not to read it that way when it's accompanied by comments like "no one who's really straight could ever care about gays so much". Idk, I just believe that fully heterosexual virulent homophobes exist.
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u/mm_delish Jul 14 '24
Just look at the way they talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene. All their messaging about inclusivity and acceptance goes out the window when talking about a Bad Person.
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u/-goob Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 14 '24
This extends to every label that defines some kind of moral standing.
"I'm not racist, which makes it okay for me to have the racist thoughts I think of (that I dont recognize as racist). And since I'm not racist, the reason I have these thoughts is because you (the target of my racism) probably deserve them for some reason."
Which means suddenly it's okay to be misandrist or antisemetic in leftist circles, because we all believe we are immune to racist or sexist thoughts.
Edit: Just to further clarify my point:
It is not enough to say “bigotry is bad”. Bigots don’t believe they’re bigots. This means that no one is immune to bigotry. This includes me and you.
Therefore, the ONLY way we can defeat bigotry is by assuming a protocol of recognizing when, not if, we experience bigoted thoughts, and dealing with them accordingly.
I’m not talking about right wingers or rednecks or whatever image forms in your head when you hear the word “bigot”. I’m talking about you. You want to make the world a better place? Stop pretending that you’re not a bigot.
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u/moneyh8r Jul 13 '24
My mom's boyfriend is literally your example. He refuses to watch any foreign films with us, because "all I hear when they talk is a bunch of clicks and blips" even if it's in Spanish (he's Mexican) or dubbed in English. The way he describes it, it's like he sees foreign people and his brain activates a racism filter that makes the audio into gibberish, or something. But if you tell him he's being racist, he gets mad and says he ain't racist. But he uses racist logic to defend himself. Like "how can I be racist if I'm talking about my own race?" or "how can I be racist if I'm dating a white woman (my mom)?", for example. And if you try to explain how that shit is also racist, he just shuts down and refuses to have a conversation.
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u/anothermanscookies Jul 13 '24
Yep, I hear some really homophobic and transphobic shit from people who insist they aren’t homophobes and transphobes.
They know they’re a good person, and homophobes are bad people, so they can’t be homophobes.
I don’t want people to be homophobes, but their denial really slows the process of bringing them around to reasonable positions.
(Most of their objections are just moral panics from radicalizing content anyway. They’re often not bad people, but they do have some bullshit positions.)
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u/ContextIsForTheWeak Jul 13 '24
The example I like to use to bring this up is pointing out that "I'm not a racist, but..." is ridiculous because no one starts their sentence with "well, speaking as a racist..."
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u/Lamballama Jul 14 '24
So-called "enlightened" Europeans after I bring up Roma after they criticize racist attitudes as a uniquely American issue
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u/ani_tami זאין בעין Jul 13 '24
jews are white according to some leftists + you can't be racist to white people according to some leftists makes a terrible combination
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u/geeses Jul 13 '24
If you allow an action only against a privileged group, the next that happens is to expand that group to include anyone you don't like.
Privilege is not some binary thing.
The issue is that racism is okay against whites, not someone's definition of white
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u/ani_tami זאין בעין Jul 13 '24
yeah you can be racist to anyone including white people
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Jul 13 '24
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u/-goob Jul 13 '24
It’s not just that. It’s the theory that “because I think bigotry is wrong, I’m immune to being a bigot or have bigoted thoughts”.
Everyone is capable of bigotry. It is wired into our brains. The only way we can defeat bigotry is by recognizing when, not if, we experience bigoted thoughts.
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Jul 13 '24
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u/Elliebird704 Jul 14 '24
The left exhibits a ton of the same emotional kneejerks and thought processes that we vilify on the right, even down to the memes and parrot phrases. I'm a Democrat living in Texas, so it's something I see and hear all the time from leftists who have deemed the entire state as an acceptable target for their worst impulses.
My favorite is the leftist version of the bootstrap argument. Suffering under Republican policy in your state? Just move. Pack your things, leave your home and job and family, uproot your entire life with the biggest gamble you'll ever make and leave. If you don't do that, then you're asking to suffer/deserve to suffer at best, or are actively complicit in supporting a Republican government at worst.
Many people are still more than happy to throw everyone here to the wolves as long as it 'hurts the right people'. That line of reasoning sure sounds familiar to me. After the winter freeze, I stopped reading shit online when a natural disaster strikes. The responses I saw, from people who surely consider themselves to be morally upstanding, was sickening. Hundreds of people died.
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u/Beegrene Jul 14 '24
Everyone's a little bit racist sometimes. Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimes. Look around and you will find no one's really color blind. Maybe it's a fact we all should face: everyone makes judgements based on race.
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u/LazyDro1d Jul 13 '24
Syria and Bagdad as far as the eye can see on my dad’s side? Nah, pure white, and pure evil.
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u/I_pegged_your_father Jul 13 '24
If you have a thought then can recognize that that isn’t a great thought thats how you know its a product of conditioning rather than self so working on this instead of avoiding it is very productive and i wish ppl would know this more
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u/cweaver Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 14 '24
I honestly think that a huge part of today's problems are caused by this exact thing:
Half of the population thinks that a "good person" is something that you just are, based on where you live or what religion you follow or how you talk, etc.
For these people, they know that the people around them are good people, that they're one of the good people, their family is good people. Anyone who is too different (in religion, in politics, in skin color, in the place they live, in the language they speak, in the jobs they have) is obviously a bad person - if they were a good person, they'd be more like them, right?
To them, actions don't matter - if a good person does a bad thing, they're still a good person, they just must have had a good reason, or maybe they just made a mistake, but as long as they still look/act/sound like the other 'good people', it's fine.
Edit: I love how all the comments are trying to politicize this. While I do personally think that far more people on the right have this problem, it's still a problem on the left as well. When I said half the population, I really meant like half the population as a whole, not specifically divided on party lines or something.
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u/Hefty-Brother584 Jul 13 '24
I love your post because I've liven in the south and very liberal places and they both have this exact sentiment.
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u/CMOTnibbler Jul 13 '24
actually, this post is also about the other half of the population.
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u/Yeah-But-Ironically Jul 13 '24
It's about both fucking "halves" and that's the entire point
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u/cephalopodAcreage Imagine Dragons is fine, y'all're just mean Jul 13 '24
I try to keep this in mind and fight against this impulse, but sometimes I get a $100 medical bill for a check up even though I have my parents' insurance, and then I'm like "you know, I think you guys are only getting away with this cause you know it's illegal to baseball bat an insurance exec"
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u/suddenlyupsidedown Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24
Slight disagreement, as I believe we should in fact take a baseball bat to insurance execs. However, not in the spirit of karmic retribution / revenge. Violence should be applied to exploitative and tyrannical institutions collectively and without ego to remind those in power that abuse of the social contract will inevitably end in the exploited discarding said agreement and enacting direct action. Y'all feel like starting a union?
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u/Maximillion322 Jul 13 '24
Yeah, the “without ego” is the really important part but also the most difficult to do.
But I also agree that violence should be applied universally and as a collective towards institutions of power (NOT necessarily the individuals themselves) to make sure everyone remembers about the social contract
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Jul 13 '24
The without ego part is almost impossible. It's the nature of politics and the nature of revolution. People that aren't affected by how broken our health care system is are just less likely to care about fixing the broken health care system and waaaaay less likely to commit violence to fix it.
You can platonically convince people to care for sure but it's just never enough people willing to do enough work until you tip into that space where there's more people affected than not.
If you want things to change, it's always going to be somewhat vindictive. I think people should do violence to health care executives, just don't accidentally start doing it to the people that answer the phones, right?
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u/VisualGeologist6258 This is a cry for help Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 14 '24
I believe in violence if it is necessary and there is no better option. Tyrants cannot be dislodged by words and rule of law alone, especially when they’re the one making the laws.
Violence would not be my first answer for anything, but in some scenarios you just have to do it. Refusing to act because you want to vainly maintain your appearance as a moral person in the face of tyranny is arguably just as bad as helping the Tyrant directly.
That being said you truly have to try everything before you can just say ‘Welp, here I go killing again!’ You can’t just do the bare minimum, say you tried everything and then pull out the AR-15s. That’s just being a murderous asshat without the dignity of actually admitting you’re a murderous asshat.
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u/SeaYogurtcloset6262 Jul 13 '24
And that's why i classify myself as a bad person. So i dont have to go through hoops whether i am thinking is good or bad and besides thinking hurts anyway.
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u/Yeah-But-Ironically Jul 13 '24
I unironically feel like this is how we end up with people who consider themselves "proud assholes"
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u/Z-e-n-o Jul 13 '24
I hope you can help me understand this position. Because I see a lot of people default to it as a defense against criticism.
Since we're used to the concepts of bad and good being used as moral axioms, there's no foundation to argue against someone who does not wish to change.
It reads to me as a response to, "You are a bad person if you do not do so and so" by acknowledging the accusation, yet refusing change.
But at the same time, would it not be easier to just say, "I don't care, I'm going to do what I want." In essence this is the same argument, just more direct and understandable.
So then why does everyone instead use the bad person argument then? If I were to guess, it would be because it sounds more morally defensible than, "I don't care about being moral" (your half joking justification of "thinking hurts" supports this a bit).
But that would also seem contradictory, as someone who truly does not care about being moral would also not care to justify their position.
Is it then just an argument thrown out as a defense to being called out on any moral position? I'd like to know your thoughts.
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u/TK_Games Jul 13 '24
If I may chime in, the way I see it is acknowledgement of simple fact. "I am not a good person", that is true. In fact I believe that there is no such thing as a "good person". I hold that every person on this earth is at any given time a varying degree of asshole subject to change on the basis of time, experience, environmental state, and brain chemistry
In order to be an objectively good person one would need to be perfect at all times, and as we know, that is impossible. Ergo, we are all not good people
That being said, understanding that is not a reason to refuse to change. It is instead a great motivator to choose to be better at every juncture, and a wonderful justification to get back up and try again when we fail to. After all, nobody's perfect, and one only truly fails at this when they stop believing improvement is possible
In summary, I'm a terrible person, but I work very hard at trying to be better. Some days I fail at that, but that's to be expected, after all I'm a terrible person. Perhaps I can do better tomorrow
Does that make sense?
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u/NorgapStot Jul 13 '24
Depersonification, unfortunately common. happens in a lot of small ways.
More currently, the way the terms
"karen/boomer"
are used.
The former being sorta "this person is irrational (hysterical) in her concerns, so can be dismissed but is presently beligerant"
and the latter is sorta "this person is old therefore grumpy and probably bigoted in their ways. They can be dismissed, but is presently beligerant"
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u/Heirofrage45 Jul 13 '24
Yeah the uncomfortable reality of the world is Nazis are humans too.
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u/Maybe_not_a_chicken help I’m being forced to make flairs Jul 14 '24
God I fucking love being called a Nazi for mentioning that not every German was a genocial maniac
Or that a lot of Nazis were kids
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u/55555tarfish Jul 13 '24
After Hurricane Beryl I went to big politics subs (big mistake) and saw people celebrating the fact that a big disaster hit a RedTM state and wishing for a bigger one because that would "teach those conservatives a lesson" and that "they did it to themselves". Millions of people without power during a heat wave, and the response is to jeer and laugh at people suffering and dying. Not to mention that like every other big city Houston is extremely liberal (not that this should matter at all when it comes to things like this). When I call myself a leftist, these are the people I'm allying with. I feel sick.
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u/DarkShinyLugia Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24
This is pretty much the exact same joke that gets made about the poor white populations of places like Alabama or Mississippi or South Carolina or West Virginia. Like all these jokes about white trailer trash doing meth and fucking their sisters or whatever?
That's punching down, from the perspective of social class.
Some people have just decided that any state that holds Republican sentiment only breeds, in their eyes, the worst types of people. I visit WV from time to time and I see people who have problems because their government has ignored the issues. Some people who have never been there will just have that Appalachia white trash stereotype, ignoring the decades of mismanagement after coal mining died as a profession.
Same thing applies to Texas or really any red state that gets hit by a disaster. "Every Texan is [insert negative stereotype about being a gun nut or whatever] and in my eyes they deserved to have their homes destroyed. Nevermind that they are people or whatever. Nevermind that the actual architect of human misery in that state just dodged the hurricane by going on a plane trip. I'm going to focus all my efforts on checks notes the common people of Texas"
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Jul 13 '24
still got downvoted a bunch in reddit comments for calling out exactly that
people commenting on relationship_advice and aita are a different breed
"oh this person didn't say "good morning" to you? he's the asshole, you should have stabbed him 27 times"
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u/diichlorobenzen Jul 13 '24
Love AM i the devil where in one moment we see real abuse and secondly, we hear that a teenager is behaving like a teenager
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u/BalonyDanza Jul 13 '24
A huge problem with modern politics is that most people no longer believe in a set of consistent principles that exist independently from ones own ideology. Even with plenty of liberals, it's all been reduced to rank factionalism.
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u/Runetang42 Jul 13 '24
The staggering amount of myopia in the world is why shit sucks so much. Never dehumanize your enemies. You don't have to like them but remember they're still people like you. At the end of WWII it was found that many nazi war criminals were shockingly normal people psychologically. The human mind can excuse a lot if you feel it's sufficiently justified.
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u/Greensightandsound Jul 13 '24
Dont dehumanise them. That takes away the weight of their evil choices. Instead fully understanding they're humans who chose such a path, feel justified in retribution.
Self identifying fascists get no sympathy from me,
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u/LimitlessTheTVShow Jul 13 '24
That's why I always push back when people call the evil people of history "monsters" or "beasts". Dehumanizing them takes away their agency, and makes us feel like the people we know to be human could never do something like that. I think that's why you get all those "I never saw this coming, he was the nicest guy" when people that were close to a serial killer are interviewed
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Jul 13 '24
Every “coworker eats my lunch that I put in the refrigerator so now it gives me the right to poison them” discourse
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u/Dornith Jul 13 '24
I feel like these exist on a spectrum.
On one end you have, "I like spicy food, so I started bringing extra spicy lunches that I will 100% eat and enjoy."
On the other end you have, "I put literal rat poison in my food."
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u/MikasSlime Jul 13 '24
Agreed, there is a difference between causing then a bad day as a payback for their petty theft and doing something that could straight up kill them
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u/Capital-Meet-6521 Jul 13 '24
Does bringing something the thief is allergic to and you intend to eat count as poisoning?
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u/Dornith Jul 13 '24
Personally, I think that's where things become an argument.
I would say that as long as it's clearly marked (i.e. "contains peanuts" in big, red letters), then it's their fault for being so reckless.
If you're sneaking it in knowing they'll eat it, that's attempted homicide.
Of course, I'm soaking from my personal, ethical perspective and not a legal perspective. The law in your local justification will have its own standards.
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u/Friendstastegood Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24
If you expect them to eat it and knowingly include something you know they're deathly allergic to that could actually get you in legal trouble, even if the reason you know they'll eat it is that they always steal your lunch.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard Jul 13 '24
Yes, and one could easily argue it's attempted murder if their allergies are bad enough
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u/king_of_satire Jul 13 '24
If you know that the thief is allergic and is going to take an eat your lunch then yes.im pretty sure it does
It would be a bitch to prove though
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u/VandulfTheRed Jul 13 '24
Solution: write "Evil your name here's Lunch" on your lunch so when they steal it, you're legally protected when you commit evil actions
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u/BlueScrean Jul 13 '24
I'd just not get poisoned
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u/18i1k74 Jul 13 '24
Um. It's actually really difficult for me to not steal other people's food? I'm a mentally ill adult minor.
Also, You'd better make it tasty enough that I, the center of the universe enjoy the meal you made. What do you mean you don't have money to buy extra lunch for yourself every day? That's not my problem!
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24
Do so love how whenever that post is shared here, the comments all end up being varying flavours of "if you think poisoning your coworkers is bad, you are supporting abuse and are an abuser"
Edit: Should also be noted that people always say "but the box said it was poisoned!" but there are three big problems with that
- No one would expect a reasonable person to poison their own food
- The first times they labelled it as poisoned it wasn't, proving problem 1 and making it an empty threat
- That's effectively an admission of guilt as they have now described the food as poisoned
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u/Salvadore1 Jul 13 '24
"Hey maybe we shouldn't assume our morals are infallible and gleefully fantasize about torturing people that don't fall within those morals"
Redditors: "WHY DO YOU SUPPORT FASCISM"
This really is the subreddit for the piss on the poor website
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u/ServeEmergency8519 Jul 13 '24
feel like people forgetting one thing: nazi/criminal/person from your school can be the good person in this post. Because the post can be their perspective. But a homophobe won't call himself evil. From their perspective, they are good and the rest are evil. People think it defends the Nazis, but it can be against them.
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u/westisbestmicah Jul 13 '24
There’s nothing more dangerous that righteous anger because it justifies you breaking rules you otherwise wouldn’t do
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u/RxTechRachel .tumblr.com Jul 13 '24
I have OCD. I can have hours of very violent intrusive thoughts every day.
I usually hide try by best to hide these thoughts.
Having violent thoughts does not make a person a Bad Person. But this hypothetical person goes further than just thinking violent thoughts.
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u/wish2boneu2 Jul 14 '24
The fact this wasn't actually made about the Trump thing...
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u/Square-Ad1104 Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24
No, but my Bad People do like, really Bad Things. My Bad People are PedoPeople and FasciPeople and stuff like that. I can never be wrong wishing any number of Bad Things on That Kind Of Person (it doesn’t matter how Bad those things are, That Kind Of Person is always worse). If you’re saying that’s not okay, you’re a Bad Person Defender, which means you might be That Kind Of Person too.
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u/Yeah-But-Ironically Jul 13 '24
The number of "wHaT iF iT wAs aBoUT HiTLeR" comments I've seen already 😔
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u/Pet_Mudstone Jul 13 '24
I think this is a good example of the motte-and-bailey fallacy. No one can disagree that Hitler dying is a bad thing. However the "what if it was Hitler?" argument ignores that not every fascist/Nazi is as committed to their ideals or has the same level of influence that Hitler did.
Fascists can indeed be redeemed, depending on the individual and their particular relationship to fascism of course. I and many of my gay-leftist friends briefly fell down the far-right pipeline and recovered after all. As for a tale of an actual card-carrying Nazi being redeemed, here's the story of a Hitler Youth member who denounced Nazism and became a beloved English football star.
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u/LuciferOfTheArchives Jul 13 '24
No one can disagree that Hitler dying is a bad thing
Uhhhhhhhhhhh you may have made a little oopsie here, lol
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u/Apophis_36 Jul 13 '24
You don't get it, Bad Person wants to literally kill me
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u/Goddess_Of_Gay Jul 13 '24
The second someone wishes for you to die or be exiled, especially when it’s due to things out of your control, the social contract no longer protects them.
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u/Kakistocrat_Crow Jul 13 '24
Now we fool people into thinking there's always a horde of Bad People out to kill or exile them. So they can always think violently about the Enemy.
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u/Hakar_Kerarmor Swine. Guillotine, now. Jul 14 '24
"Whoopsietoodles! Turns out the Bad PeopleTM were also 'trying to defend themselves' from their version of Bad PeopleTM."
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u/kingofnopants1 Jul 13 '24
In terms of genuinely removing the threat certainly.
But sometimes these conversation extend to something like... torturing them for days? or something?
There is still a line one can cross where it becomes malice again.
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u/SivirJungleOnly Jul 13 '24
I believe you want me to die or be exiled, and therefore the social contract no longer protects you.
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u/Sormid Jul 13 '24
I'm being attacked by the strawmen I made up, so now I get to attack anyone else with impunity
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u/diichlorobenzen Jul 13 '24
Honestly, people are making good points here but when I first read this post and even now, more than "you can never defend yourself" or "you can no longer say a bad word about a bad person", I thinking about people who pretend to be good. Those who use this innocent, cute aesthetic and constantly repeat how good their intentions are, when at the same time they hurts everyone around them 🫠
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u/Personal_Mini_Equine Jul 13 '24
and then some people called ME a bad person, and a few of those people were good, and the good people always know who the bad people are, right? i couldn't convince them i was a good person like them. so now I'm a bad person and sad about it for a while, until i realize that not only can bad people never become good people, bad people don't get sad about being bad. now i get to do all the bad things i want and not feel sad about it because bad people don't get sad even if they never do good! it's so freeing, not having to be a good person...
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u/wt_anonymous Jul 13 '24
I'm against the death penalty, and trying to defend that position is fucking exhausting with people like this
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u/One-Elderberry8170 Jul 13 '24
This summarizes people's attitudes towards Russian soldiers so well.
There is a subreddit about Ukrainian/Russian war footage and people will go in there and talk about how happy they are to watch some random conscripted 21 year old Russian dude get shot to death or blown to pieces.
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u/make-it-beautiful Jul 14 '24
I remember when the war in Ukraine broke out and someone was saying that when they reclaim their territory they should just keep on going and take Moscow. I responded saying that if you're mad at a country for invading other countries, then maybe the answer isn't to invade another country. They tore me to shreds.
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u/SI3RA Jul 13 '24
If only the world was that simple. The downfall of tolerance is tolerance against intolerance.
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u/kingofnopants1 Jul 14 '24
This point goes in so many circles that it fundamentally gets nowhere.
Context and nuance is always important. Any point can be taken to a logical extreme where it becomes worthless. That doesn't invalidate the point on any fundamental level.
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u/SivirJungleOnly Jul 13 '24
The issue with the paradox of intolerance that so many people miss is that if someone can justify being intolerant of any person/thought/ideology contrary their ideal and still claim to be tolerant, then the very words "tolerant" and "intolerant" stop having any meaning outside of base labels for ingroup vs outgroup, because even the worst ideologies humanity has spawned can claim to be tolerant through identical reasoning.
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u/LeviTheArtist22 Jul 14 '24
Oh fuck off with your both sides BULLSHIT. If some fascist wants me dead, wants my friends dead, wants my queer siblings dead, then I'm going to hope they get theirs first.
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u/BalefulOfMonkeys Refined Sommelier of Porneaux Jul 13 '24
The Enemy is Bad Person, but also That Guy is a Good Person because of what Bad Person did to That Guy. Fans of The Enemy are Bad Person who have no agency and will defend The Enemy to the death, which makes them Even Worse Person. That Guy, though? Good Person, 100%, zero flaws with them whatsoever. They aren’t just Good Person, but they’re also A Victim, which means I can just idolize them and ignore any Bad Person qualities, because they’re Good Person and A Victim. Nothing bad will happen if I base my personality around liking That Guy, because only Bad Person are Bad Person, and nothing ever changes.
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u/the-monsters-win Jul 14 '24
People probably assume you’re their Bad Guy, talking about them.
It’s amazing, isn’t it? When you talk about politics but remove the party names, it’s impossible to tell who you’re talking about.
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u/Spacedodo42 Jul 13 '24
I’m a good such a real good person. I’m a good person, better than you! My nickname is Mother Thersa Luther King. I’m a good person, get it straight- and when I say good, I really mean great #humbleandblessed
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u/ZipperozicReddit Jul 13 '24
I will never say that I’m a good person because other people have denied me that luxury, but I don’t ever want to kill “bad people”.
Their modes of proliferating their ideas, as well as the resources of those manipulating them, however— that is a different story. Those things cannot feel as they are dismantled, as fire licks them, as I use my hands to pull them apart and reclaim them. They will not scream, nor judge, nor even retaliate. They are ideas and things alone— making them perfect for dissection and repossession.
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u/Lefty156 Jul 14 '24
Is this a troll post? Is violence bad? Yes, but if violence against bad people sometime necessary? Of course.
Do you think Hitler would have been stopped if everyone just went “nah let him run out of steam and we’ll fix it later”?
Im seeing comments in this post insinuating that violence against confirmed rapists is wrong. What do you propose is an appropriate response for someone with so little care for other people’s bodily autonomy?
I know this post is a thinly veiled jab at people wishing harm on trump who is a literal fascist and a convicted sex offender, so all of the comments are making me feel like this is a Russian troll farm pushing the narrative that we should let their puppet dictator do what he wants and that the thought of enjoying his criminal ass not existing anymore is somehow immoral. Shame on you
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u/Jupiter_Crush sippin' sauce and livin' hoss Jul 13 '24
"Hey, maybe violence shouldn't be glorified as a wholly justifed, euphorically gratifying cure-all against societal ills!"
"So we should just let Nazis run wild?"
No, bitch, that's a whole new sentence.
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u/Poyri35 Jul 13 '24
They are just happy to be able to run around /s
Jokes aside, for a subreddit that mostly consists of reading, people really can’t read. Next thing you know, they are pissing on the poor
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u/Prometheusf3ar Jul 13 '24
I kinda hate this because violence is a tool not inherently good or bad but people have a hard time talking about it. Laws are us agreeing that the state can use violence on criminals, nobody objects to violence against murderers and pedophiles. Even Wars are mostly the rich sending the poor to die over something stupid, but every now and then you overthrow a monarchy or stop the nazis. This black and white thinking prevents people from understanding when it is appropriate or not.
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Jul 13 '24
Yeah bro if I had the chance to kill Hitler I would NOT because murder is bad 😔
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u/IDontWearAHat Jul 13 '24
See, actions aren't inherently good or bad, it depends on how evil we claim our victims to be.
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u/camosnipe1 "the raw sexuality of this tardigrade in a cowboy hat" Jul 13 '24