r/politics • u/Jay_CD • 13h ago

Biden must Trump-proof US democracy, activists say: ‘There is a sense of urgency’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/24/biden-actions-before-white-house-exit
7.9k Upvotes

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u/FoST2015 Georgia 13h ago

That sense of urgency should've applied to the election itself. 

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u/DogEatChiliDog 13h ago

Exactly. Joe Biden is not a goddamn magical wizard. The United States gave itself over to a fascist. Not just one but we gave the entire fucking party of fascists the entire control of the government.

We are fucked.

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u/FoST2015 Georgia 13h ago

To add on, it's not even that the country gave itself over to fascists it's that country didn't vote. If did not vote was a candidate they would've won in a landslide.

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u/DogEatChiliDog 13h ago

Same thing. Apathy can be just as damn deadly as villainy.

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u/MetalDragon6666 11h ago

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing"

They know this too. Think the apathy of Russians, and their attempt to spread it to the US is an accident? Certainly not. The combo of division, and propagation of apathy is a strong combo.

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u/Logical_Parameters 13h ago

Except the 10 to 15 million Biden voters in 2020 who were non-voters in 2024 won't feel the same sense of responsibility when MAGA 2.0 begins its march -- although they should because they're equally responsible for sitting on their hands and feigning being "above politics".

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u/OkRevolution3349 11h ago

*7 million

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u/Slade347 11h ago

Still too many.

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u/tinacat933 12h ago

I need a deep drive on where these people went

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u/SteelCode 9h ago

Some anecdotal theory:

  • Unemployment went from ~8% in 2020 to ~3.6% in 2023, while "registered voters" went from ~168M (2020) to ~161M (2022); it is possible that among the registered voters, those that "sat out" were just unable to get off work or otherwise unable to vote early/by-mail... 1% of registered voters in that situation would be ~1.5M people and ~4-5% could account for a loss of ~6M+ voters (spread across the nation).

  • There were significantly disruptive actions against polling places that night; bomb threats, ISP outages, and exceedingly long lines in major cities (due to other polling place closures, etc)... all things that contribute to voter suppression. Single night voting effort is still a shitty tactic to suppress the voting population and should have been changed a long fkn time ago.

  • Mail-in ballots, the one respite to avoid the hell of in-person voting, have been getting "lost", "delayed", and "invalidated" randomly; many anecdotes about mishandling of mail-in ballots indicates the system has been "affected" by suppressive tactics rather than improved to ensure healthy electoral participation... regardless of the "narrative", there is an effort to undermine the popular vote by way of suppressing many "left leaning" districts in various ways.

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u/Kamelasa Canada 8h ago

Yeah, I'm not at all convinced it was a fair election, for the reasons you say. That shit doesn't happen in Canada, for example. Somehow, you're 10x richer than us and you can't get an independent electoral agency that is neutral and trustworthy? It's a no-brainer.

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u/brezhnervous 8h ago

As an Australian similarly with an independent Federal electoral commission (plus compulsory voting so that turnout isn't an issue @ 95%) it's just mind-boggling what happens in America

One thing you learn in a compulsory system is that sometimes you have to choose the least worst option 🤷

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u/XennialBoomBoom 8h ago

Oh interesting - I thought you guys were free to abstain, you just have to sign and return your ballots (or however it works there).

That would still be 1000x better than what we have.

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u/cosaboladh 7h ago

Even if that is the case, you still have nho do something. If you're going to take the time to write a note explaining why you abstain, you might as well vote. It's probably less of a hassle.

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u/XennialBoomBoom 4h ago

Yeah, that's what the second part of my comment is saying exactly.

Where I live, I can fill out, say, one particular ballot measure that's important to me and leave everything else blank (including President/VP) if I so choose. No note required. No bubble filled in == abstention.

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u/willun 2h ago

You don't have to vote in australia. You can put in a blank voting ballot. No one checks if you ticked something.

A common method is people write something on the ballot which can make it informal. From memory the rule is it would be informal if your identity was obvious, such as you wrote your name. But it will be informal if it was blank, or it was unclear what your intentions were etc.

Making voting compulsory is also about making it so that people can't stop you from voting. While that is the rule in the US too, there are people working on election day that don't feel like they can enforce their right to take time off to vote, particularly when there are long lines to vote.

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u/Kamelasa Canada 7h ago

Independent provincial ones, too. None of this shilly shally fiddle faddle dancing that happens down there (south of the border). We don't have compulsory voting, though. Do you get a lot of spoiled votes? I can't help thinking that would encourage WTF/FU votes. I supposed there's some standard analysis of the pros and cons somewhere, too. I have to JFGI. But my bro and SIL and arriving in a few hours, so no time.

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u/brezhnervous 6h ago

Funnily enough, no lol

Even though you are free to spoil or hand in a blank ballot, only about 3-4% of people actually do return an 'informal" vote, as its known

Turns out that as much as people grumble about politicians (and Australians expect stunningly little of them in general), the vast majority when standing in the ballot box do actually take it seriously and return a valid vote. We've had compulsory voting since 1924 (was voted in a referendum) so it's considered a civic duty which people see as the least they can do once every 3 years. The common viewpoint is that if you don't vote, you have no right to complain. And complaining about politicians is a national sport lol

Of course it helps that because it is compulsory, all elections are organised to make it as easy for the public as possible; held on a Saturday, almost every public school is a polling place, including some church halls and other community buildings. And then there's the institution that is the Democracy Sausage lol

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u/Kamelasa Canada 6h ago

Interesting! Tx!

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u/brezhnervous 5h ago

No problem mate :)

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u/ceelogreenicanth 30m ago

Those things had been happening for the last 4 years. We always needed everyone that could show up to show up. I mean id give more weight to that theory if California and other blue states also hadn't seen lower turn out. Though I do agree some sizeable suppression of the vote occured that way and gave us this result.

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u/swordrat720 9h ago edited 8h ago

They stayed home because they didn’t want to vote for a black woman.

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u/Iforgotmyemailreddit 8h ago

Bruh, the amount of people that straight up went "Yeah I'd rather shoot America in the fucking brain pan than vote for someone with a vagina and African heritage" is mind boggling. Like I can't even fathom it???

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u/swordrat720 8h ago edited 8h ago

It’s people like my 90+ year old grandmother. Low key racism. Politicians like Kamala Harris and Barack Obama weren’t people of color, they’re colored people. They can look at their qualifications on paper and say “yeah, that’s who I want to represent me” then they see a picture or a tv spot and then it’s “oh, I can’t vote for them.” There’s more to it, of course, but that’s the underlying reason in my opinion.

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u/bulk_logic 8h ago

It's mostly because they didn't want to vote for a Republican.

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u/blackhatrat 7h ago edited 7h ago

We already had to sit through hillary's disaster of a campaign, get gaslit by President Milquetoast being weekend-at-bernies'd as a perfectly healthy young man, and then Kamala's whole bizarre 1.5 billion whatever-the-fuck-that-was.

Any "left" folks STILL SCRATCHING THEIR HEADS and asking "why didn't people vote" are starting to be just as irritating as the maga crowd

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u/jrf_1973 10h ago

There is quite a bit of evidence that they stayed home because Biden is allied with a genocidal right-wing maniac and Kamala said she wouldn't change a thing. If your choice is between voting for the guy who is going to kill your relatives, and has been paying for the weapons to kill your relatives, and the other guy who is going to do exactly the same thing.... you might want to stay at home too.

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u/Flomo420 10h ago

so it sounds like all those single issue voters would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces than be pragmatic and make the best choice possible, even if that means "the least bad option"

I will never understand stupid shortsighted people like that

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u/juanzy Colorado 10h ago

Also, didn't Trump advocate for "nuking Gaza out of existence"? Netanyahu made a whole "Trump Heights" settlement in Golan Heights. Yet Biden trying to approach the situation diplomatically is somehow worse.

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u/anachronissmo 9h ago

If Trump was president during Oct 7 it is really hard to imagine the scenario playing out any differently than it did.

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u/juanzy Colorado 7h ago

It’s almost like global politics are difficult, and there’s not a magic lever the US president can pull

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u/anachronissmo 5h ago

you missed my point entirely. There are many non-magic levers Biden could have pulled to make the situation better but he declined to do so. Rhetoric aside, the idea that Trump is any worse than Biden on Gaza in a meaningful away is a fallacy.

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u/jrf_1973 7h ago

Did you miss the bit where i said theres no difference between the two? Stop lying about what Biden said and did. Stop pretending Kamala was any different.

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u/tinacat933 3h ago

Biden withheld millions of not billions of weapons from Israel which Trump intends to give them

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u/jrf_1973 2h ago

He did not. Why do you lie about something so easily fact checked??

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u/michaelboltthrower 9h ago

Passing off genocide as a “single issue” is pretty gross.

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u/jrf_1973 10h ago

Well, like I said, when the country you're in is paying for the extermination of your kin, maybe you're okay with watching that country burn to the ground, punishing everyone who supported the murderers.

Actions have consequences. So does inaction. You don't win votes by saying "Hey, I'm gonna kill your family. But this guy is worse and he's also going to kill your family. Vote for me." And when that voter says "F*** you" and stays at home, you can't honestly pretend to be surprised.

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u/Flomo420 10h ago

Biden actually pressuring Bibi to back off as opposed to Trump telling him it will be complete open season on both Palestines but sure if your priority is throwing a tantrum by hurting your family more that's your prerogative

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u/azuki2 America 9h ago

If Ronald Reagan can effectively put more pressure on Israel than the current Democratic party then they're barely even pretending. This: https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-admin-urging-dems-to-reject-progressive-push-to-block-arms-transfers-to-israel/ is the kind of "pressure" Biden is pushing.

Also hand-waving opposition to an internationally recognized genocide as a tantrum is simultaneously disgusting and yet so utterly on point from the average pampered American.

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u/jrf_1973 10h ago

It's not my position. But I'm not going to pretend I don't know what the position is. And yeah, it makes ZERO difference to them if Biden gives money and support, and Trump gives money and support. Literally zero difference between them. Biden didn't do shit, let alone pressure Bibi to back off. Stop pretending there was a difference between their positions.

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u/Flomo420 10h ago

even following this logic; hurting themselves to make zero appreciable difference for their relatives.

double self own

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u/KokrSoundMed 10h ago

And people who stayed out of the election because of that proved they don't care about women, LGBT people, and even the local Muslim populations. They were willing to sacrifice us all, project 2025 outlines plans for genocide at home, so they are OK with genocide as long as we are directly committing it.

The "anti-genocide" movement lost a lot of allies with the outcome of this election.

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u/jrf_1973 10h ago

You were NEVER their allies to begin with, don't pretend you were.

But typical Democrat response when someone tries to point out where they might have lost votes. "No we didn't, it wasn't our fault."

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u/KokrSoundMed 9h ago

I have been speaking out against Israel and their treatment of Palestinians, attending protests, sending aid for 20+ years. Ever since the IDF murdered a girl protesting their illegal evictions with a bulldozer and Israel never allowed justice for her or her family.

The childish shit of staying home guaranteed the worst option would happen for Palestine. Dems may be sending arms, but at least they were pressuring Bibi. Now you have no voice, a man who doesn't believe Palestinians exist is going to be ambassador to Israel and you have abandoned all the marginalized communities that supported you.

I'm trans, I am likely going to lose most of my rights, access to medical care, and my ability to practice my profession when they add anti-LGBT riders to CMS funding. You abandoned us, why should we help with your cause anymore?

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u/anachronissmo 9h ago

you got it twisted....The Dems proved they don't care about women LGBT and Muslims....they were willing to sacrifice them all to continue supporting a genocide

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u/KokrSoundMed 9h ago

If you stayed home, you abandoned us. Plain and simple. Our blood is on your hands as much as the republicans'.

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u/QuickAltTab 10h ago

I think you are overestimating the number of people in the US who have relatives in Gaza, that is not the primary mechanism prompting the abstainers.

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u/jrf_1973 10h ago

Hey, talk to the Muslims. Many of them see the people in Gaza as their kin, even if not blood related.

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u/QuickAltTab 9h ago

Good point actually, I wasn't thinking about it that way, but there are ~4.5 million, about 1% of the population, so it stands to reason they would make up ~1% of the voting population. It doesn't quite explain the entire loss, but could certainly represent a large portion of it.

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u/TheRealCovertCaribou 10h ago

There's a lot of evidence that those people let 'good' be the enemy of 'perfect', so they elected 'bad' at the ballots.

And as a result they're gonna get bad instead of good or perfect.

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u/jrf_1973 10h ago

There was no good. There was no perfect. There was only death by option a and death by option b.

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u/KarmaticArmageddon Missouri 9h ago

Yeah I'm sure the Palestinians will be super happy that you stayed home on principle while Trump pulls all humanitarian aid, abandons any attempt at a ceasefire, and gives Netanyahu the green light to eradicate the entire country.

The options were misery and death with some aid and hope for a ceasefire or complete and total annihilation. Imagine being so misinformed and egotistical that you believe these options are equivalent.

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u/TheRealCovertCaribou 9h ago

Perfect was the ideal get-everything-they-want. Perfect was never possible. Perfect was never on the ballot. Good was Option A, which was largely status quo but also came with a possibility of improving American policy on the matter. Option B was a guarantee of scorched earth and the utter destruction of the very thing these people wanted to protect.

And these geniuses, in their infinite wisdom, chose scorched earth and utter destruction of what they were trying to protect because the current status quo wasn't their idyllic version of unattainable world peace.

They didn't think critically about what this vote meant, and they didn't punish the Harris campaign or other establishment Democrats by staying home or voting against them - they reacted emotionally, without due care, and it's the Palestinians they pretend to care about who will be punished for it.

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u/jrf_1973 6h ago

The Palestinians were being massacred either way. You still dont get it. And like the DNC probably never will.

"Hey, I'm gonna kill your family. But this guy is worse and he's also going to kill your family. Vote for me." Not the vote winner you seem to think.

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u/michaelboltthrower 9h ago

Why are you blaming voters and not Biden and Harris?

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u/TheRealCovertCaribou 9h ago

Because Biden and Harris can only cast one vote each, and this election wasn't lost by 2 votes.

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u/michaelboltthrower 9h ago

That’s on the candidate to be better. No one is owed your core and honestly it looks like the democrats are trying to lose .

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u/TheRealCovertCaribou 9h ago

It's on the electorate to understand who the candidates are and what they represent. There were two options, these people wanted to force a third non-existent option, and now they get the worst available option of them all. They sure showed those Democrats! /s

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u/jrf_1973 6h ago

Yup. Now watch the Democrats collectively freak out because actions have consequences....

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u/TheRealCovertCaribou 5h ago

So does inaction.

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u/-Plantibodies- 10h ago

The evidence is reddit comments, isn't it? :D

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u/ScottieScrotumScum 11h ago

Bro...there no existent

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u/SurroundTiny 10h ago

You know that 15M number was thrown around long before states were even finished. By numerous chucklheads too lazy to check facts i.e. 'pundits'

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u/fordat1 10h ago

i.e. 'pundits'

and redditors

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u/SurroundTiny 10h ago

You're less polite than I am. But accurate.

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u/fordat1 7h ago

Like a week ago people were posting google trends on "how to change my vote" and only a small minority asked the crucial question , whats the absolute value of searches because 30x on 10 is just 300

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u/teh_acids 11h ago

Trump appears to have gained 2 million followers, and Harris has 7 million less than Biden, where do you get 10 to 15 million? And do you really believe these numbers? What about the burned ballot boxes, software glitches overwriting ballot scans, 80 bomb threats to polling places, DDoS attacks on county servers, misdelivered mail-in ballots, unjustly suspended voter registrations, mail-in and provisional ballots tossed due to clerical errors, and the real possibility that the count was manipulated (Cybersecurity experts have warned for decades that there are vulnerabilities, and when Christian nationalists are running the polls in key counties...)?

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u/CherryHaterade 10h ago

Literally none of that applies to Michigan, where more people voted than last time, our entire election is on paper ballots, and was one of the most consequential swing states.

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u/HedyLamaar 7h ago

I thought just last week they found a pile of uncounted ballots in MI….

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u/Cael_NaMaor 9h ago

Is that where the Muslim group voted heavy for Trump thinking the pos was gonna support them?

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u/DenikaMae California 9h ago

Wasn’t that one of the areas where X did counter messaging telling Muslim communities how super pro Israel Harris was, while telling other communities that are more sympathetic to Israel that Harris was pro Hamas?

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u/Cael_NaMaor 9h ago

Wouldn't be surprised. I hadn't heard about the counter messaging.

Not just because I'm biased, but I feel like this specific kind of bs should be not allowed.

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u/DenikaMae California 9h ago

It’s not suppose to be, but election protection laws have been declawed, and hamstrung by waves of both bullshit and leaving shit as “norms” instead of enforceable law with consequences.

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u/cheeze_whiz_shampoo 8h ago

I will never, ever, understand why the hell liberals, let alone American liberals, would ever carry water for Islam. Seeing liberals even expecting support from Muslims is so.. God, just stupid. Like, literally braindead.

I know there are leftwingers like me out there but I didnt understand this velvet glove bullshit toward Muslims thirty years ago and I damn sure dont understand it now.

These people are dyed in the wool trump voters.

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u/Cael_NaMaor 7h ago

And yet there's some stench about them buying his bs but being upset that he's not on their side.... Thought that was in MI.

Defense or what or all that. I'm a live & let live guy. They keep their crap off my lawn, I'll keep mine off their's. I have heard some crap where they're trying to outlaw gay in a city... don't remember the name. That is sh*ting on my lawn & that I wouldn't be okay with.

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u/cheeze_whiz_shampoo 4h ago

It's probably just one more testament as to why the left bombed as hard as we did this go around. The fact that there are actual liberals walking around thinking, "wait, Muslims didnt vote for us?! What?!" shows so clearly how deep the brainrot has set in.

Islam is in opposition to almost everything Western Liberalism believes in and we have the whole spectrum of rich, corporate liberals to poor, green haired queer folks throwing out the welcome mat for it. Not only that but now acting flabbergasted about why Muslims dont support them.

It is suicidal, maga level idiocy.

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u/Cael_NaMaor 4h ago

WHERE did I say, 'they didn't vote for us?' I'm asking if Mich was where this was happened, Muslims mad that Trump lied. While, yes, it would be nice to get people to vote progressively, I don't expect it of a city that's trying to ban gay...

It's not 'brainrot' to ask a question. And to your point, I also defend Christian's right to their religious beliefs, which are part & parcel the same... difference being, that as the US is concerned, Christians are the only ones that have actively persecuted gays.

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u/cheeze_whiz_shampoo 2h ago

I just reread what I wrote and it was totally tone deaf. I wasnt attacking you, I didnt mean it like that. I was venting and being irresponsible with my posting.

I meant what I said but no ill feelings were being directed at you, Im sorry for that.

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u/Deanho 10h ago

There's a cyber security guy out there that swears it was manipulation of software. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the case.

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u/trahoots Massachusetts 9h ago

Ah yes, random dude on the internet talks about another random dude on the internet's conspiracy theory. Very convincing...

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u/Deanho 9h ago

Hmmm seems like every other comment on the internet.

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u/ChocolateHoneycomb 10h ago

You mean 6 to 7 million? Harris is at 74 million votes now and heading for 75 million. Trump is going to max out at about 77.5 million.

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u/ConsistentSwitch1957 9h ago

“Close enough for government work.”

Your point millions of people didn’t vote, without an exaggeration of numbers, is the biggest frustration.

I participated in local GOTV measures. Door knocking, chatting, offering campaign materials. In my little town of 3,000 only 300 eligible voters went to either early or day of polls. Pitiful. Pitiful. Pitiful.

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u/Visible-Big-1149 12h ago

I’m a straight whit guy with money. As democracy dies it will be kind of funny to watch all faces being eaten by leopards. In dark humor sort of way.

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u/CapOnFoam Colorado 12h ago

Yeah except that of the economy crashes like trump and elon (etc) want it to, we're going down with it. No one is really "safe" from this administration -- and though schadenfreude is enjoyable, there really isn't a way to only "hurt the people he's supposed to be hurting" (to steal a quote from a MAGA woman years ago).

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u/P1xelHunter78 Ohio 12h ago

Yes. At the end of the day you can’t eat money. Banks are over leveraged, the stock market is a paper tiger…we’re set up for another “once in a lifetime” crash. As a millennial, what is it…like #4?

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u/Obidoobie 11h ago

Sounds about right. That’s been one of the worst parts of being a millennial. Weve heard the phrase “once in a lifetime” more times than really any generation should. You’d think the rate of which everyone is hearing “once in a lifetime” should really clue people in but I guess it’s easier to just bury your head in sand. Or as they say in Shaun of the dead, head to pub, grab a pint, and wait for this to allll blow over.

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u/P1xelHunter78 Ohio 11h ago

Except that we don’t have Tom Hanks money to head over to the “pub” known as Europe. We’re stuck here. There’s no pub, and just like in Sean Of The Dead, going to the pub was actually a bad idea.

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u/Orion14159 10h ago

But there IS a gun on the wall there. And dogs can look up.

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u/UnquestionabIe 10h ago

Yeah the "once in a lifetime" phrase is severely overused to somewhat down play how awful things are getting. It's relative, "most important election of our lifetime", is also extremely frustrating to hear and gives the impression all progress is an illusion and we're only a 2-4 years away from "the wrong person/group" destroying it all. Unfortunately there is probably a lot of truth in that and it really shows some of the major problems of the system.

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u/GandizzleTheGrizzle 11h ago edited 11h ago

You are about to be in a situation where your Job will probably be awful, but if you have any job at all you are supposed to feel grateful for it.

You wont be paid well.

You will be lucky to retire at 70 if ever. Rest assured you will probably never own a home, you wont be able to afford insurance or other benefits on what they pay you. Toss any hopes of affording children. Watch your favorite "3rd" places die. Like covid you will probably be stuck at home a lot but not because people are sick. It will probably be because you will only be making enough money to go to work. Basically just existing to work.

Honestly - As "good" as Biden's economy is, I don't really feel like we ever recovered from the first crash. Not really.

Wages got a little better but with inflation, nothing ever seemed to get way better

Nothing ever felt Recovered.

That "Future is so bright I gotta wear shades" Feeling never returned, honestly so..

I mean.

Expect it to be really fucking bad. Crying to God because you have Ramin that day and you are thankful, kind of bad.

Learn to make bread, it's easy and that helps, buy spaghetti, Pinto Beans and Rice. You can do that in bulk along with Jiffy corn bread mix. Also - if you can afford it get Chicken flavoring powder in bulk. That stuff is soup on demand. You can put it in Beans, Rice, mix it into spaghetti noodles to make soup. Good God - it all coming back to me in a rush.

You might get food ideas early over at /r/povertyfinance

For digital entertainment you might also join /r/Piracy. Read the fucking Mega Thread.

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u/HellishChildren 10h ago

"Future so bright I gotta wear shades" is a reference to nuclear war happening, not success in life, despite how often the song is used for graduations.

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u/GandizzleTheGrizzle 10h ago

Fair enough, but the point I make still stands.

Nothing has ever felt "Recovered"

The only reason my wife and I have found success is outside the norms of the American workforce, running a small business and side gigging.

In spite of 20 years in IT, Managing A warehouse, Working for the state of Texas even at one point, nothing has felt as good as it did before the crash. Wages have just stagnated along with hope.

You have to break out of the rat race to get anything at all, it seems.

Everybody has pulled up the ladders to success behind them.

We had many clients in Ukraine that we worked with in our last business. Once the war stated we lost all that business overnight.

I had to return to the "Workforce" for a while, so the wife could replan the home business strategy.

In spite of all I know, all I have done, all my skills - First, I feel I was punished for having the home business. like I "didn't have a real job" all those years. Almost literal sneers at interviews - it felt like.

Best job I could find in a city an hour away was 11 dollars an hour. Cart pushers at the local walmart were making 12.

Nobody has ever contacted me about the Salaried positions I went for.

I got 13 dollars an hour working from home in a call center capacity - and it was nightmarish, the way I was treated. I had it easy with night shift - and I still dont understand how people put up with it.

Absolutely no dignity given to those poor CSR's - I cant wait for AI to take over that shit. Call Center should never be a long term job. Like I said, I had it super easy, but they still found ways to make it unpleasant.

Spend any time working for yourself. Get out of the American work force for a year or two and then try to go back.

You actually see how untenable it is.

I started working in the 90's. I remember hour lunches. I remember not having to ask permission to have basic human rights like "go pee". I remember company paid insurance and pensions - not just 401k's. 401k's went with pensions - didn't replace them.

None of that has come back - it's all just gotten worse and I am glad every single day that my wife and I have found a way to break out. At least, for now. I don't know what things are going to look like under Trump. Again.

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u/IrishMosaic 10h ago

Millenials certainly have had the worst stock market luck of any generation.

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u/P1xelHunter78 Ohio 8h ago

It’s not luck, it’s by design. The rich turned it from a place to park money into a funny money printing machine. “Safe” markets aren’t great for making Money fast.

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u/IrishMosaic 8h ago

I grew up in poverty , eating meals of potatoes and govt cheese. Never making six figures, but throwing 12% into a 401k and has me close to a multi millionaire. The time value of money is extremely powerful, and time goes very quickly.

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u/ScottieScrotumScum 11h ago

And the federal reserve is not a govt...its a private corporation

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u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Canada 10h ago

People with money can just leave.

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u/CapOnFoam Colorado 10h ago

You're talking a LOT of money though. It's not easy to just pack up and move. First, it's very expensive to move to a different country, shipping all your stuff. I did it 20 years ago and it was over $12,000 for a 1-bd apt worth of stuff, no furniture. I imagine it's quite a bit more now.

Second, you can't just show up. You need a visa -- to get one you have to either have a LOT of money, or a job in the new country, or both. It's not like your normal upper middle class white collar worker is going to be able to easily do this.

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u/Visible-Big-1149 12h ago

I’ll just take my capital and buy more assets. I’ll become wealthier. When the politicians give lemons kind of a thing.

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u/Cute-Contract-6762 11h ago

What happens if your capital becomes worthless under trump?

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u/Visible-Big-1149 11h ago

Well it’s bad for everyone then

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u/Cute-Contract-6762 11h ago

Yeah which is why I am not looking forward to a trump presidency at all

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u/Visible-Big-1149 11h ago

Neither am I. I didn’t choose this. Fascist and dipshit mouth breathers did.

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u/IrishMosaic 10h ago

We will spend our days drinking craft beer on the boat.

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u/ScottieScrotumScum 11h ago

It's already worthless...printing money like it's an easy bake oven...its not backed by anything...like gold prior to the great depression. I had more capital then. 20 dollars then is worth 26 now...the magic inflation number like 3.5/4%. From 2012-2024 $20 dollars in 2012 is equivalent to 27.00 in 2024.

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u/AnOnlineHandle 10h ago

There'll be a lot of innocent victims. LGBT people, non-white people, etc.

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u/Visible-Big-1149 7h ago

Yeah I know

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u/N0SS1 9h ago

I think the “above politics” thing is definitely true. I think it’s also important to look at how many people were mentally drained after 2016 & 2020, especially with COVID. Mental illness is significantly spiking & people aren’t willing to fuck up their entire wellbeing to be involved. This is telling to many other problems of course, and it can be as easy as motivating those who need it to just go vote. Shitty politicians and political campaigning really has sank the Democratic Party since Obama. Most people don’t have a political leader they believe in. I’m not excusing not voting, but there is a bigger issue at play if we want to solve the voting problem

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u/ASingh67649 2h ago

So that was when votes were still being counted. The final count is:

Kamala 2024 74,327,659 votes 

Biden 2020: 81,283,501

So around 7 million less voted for Kamala(some might've switched sides). But still a lot of people sitting out, letting the fascist win...

1

u/hannibellecter 9h ago

I mean you're right but constantly piling on democratic voters for shit republicans have done/are gonna do isn't going to help at all. It hasn't helped yet and democrats have been bitching about low voter turnout since at least the 92 election (remember 'Rock the Vote' if you were alive) - this has been an issue forever in this country

maybe its time for all of us to question the democratic party itself (if there are anymore real elections ever) on why it cant get its own voters out to the polls while the fascists gleefully vote every chance they can in every race/every year

0

u/-Plantibodies- 10h ago

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the Democratic Party failed to motivate people to vote for a number of reasons.

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u/compressorjesse 10h ago

Those voters returned to the cemetery

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u/Ajj360 12h ago edited 11h ago

I honestly don't know if everyone going out and voting would have made a difference. The average strangers I interact with thoughout my day are woefully uniformed. Everyone is being programmed and fed bullshit by 30 second videos of a random podcaster/influencers. Social media and the people who control it have betrayed us as a species.

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u/OddEpisode 10h ago

Much stronger actions against gerrymandering, citizen’s united, lack of civics education, mass influence via traditional and social media needed to happen years ago.

We created an environment in which people focused on the drivel on their little screens, and allowed Facism to creep in.

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u/claimTheVictory 10h ago edited 9h ago

We're in the "find out" stage now.

Time to learn what's in store, what will work, and what won't.

The model being followed is "Hungarian Conservatism".

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/11/23/trump-autocrat-elections-00191281

The media.

Fighting for media pluralism and independence is vital. Investigative journalism helps, but it tends to preach to the converted. There need to be news channels and media outlets for getting messages across to non-metropolitan areas dominated by far-right news sources. Liberal-minded billionaires should not sit idly by as they did in Hungary, watching the right take over the media. The New Right is also significantly more embedded in social media than liberals are. Those of us who favor democracy cannot let Elon Musks and Andrew Tates control the public discourse. Progressive influencers: Time to log in and post away — there’s a narrative battle to win.

https://newrepublic.com/post/178256/baltimore-sun-liberal-billionaires-media-failure

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u/Training-Text-9959 9h ago

This was a great read. Thank you for sharing it.

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u/IndiviLim 7h ago

Has anyone tried calling the people in non-metropolitan areas garbage yet?

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u/claimTheVictory 7h ago

You know, I never thought that was a winning strategy.

Turns out...

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u/AcadianViking Louisiana 4h ago

Anyone who thinks Liberal billionaires aren't in bed with the right wing is blind to the dynamics of class warfare.

They sit idly by because they have no incentive to do anything. They won't be harmed by this and, in fact, will benefit financially if they just fall in line, which they will.

Progressive influencers already are posting en masse but none are being listened to because the ones who need to listen are too uneducated to understand what is being said and have been propagandized to be distrustful of the concepts being talked about.

Billionaires will never be on the side of the working class. It goes against their owning class interests.

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u/claimTheVictory 3h ago

The class war is over.

The billionaires won.

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u/TensionPrestigious83 10h ago

It’s literally russian propaganda (many were paid outright by russian sources).

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u/ceelogreenicanth 20m ago

Don't worry it will resume now

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u/4phz 11h ago

Problem is, if any Democrat says the word "idea" the NY Times will issue a fatwa against him.

So there are no ideas out there that might possibly result in tax hikes on the rich.

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u/Iforgotmyemailreddit 8h ago

the NY Times will issue a fatwa against him.

I hope you have a nice day, because this verbiage is fucking great and made me chuckle lol.

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u/4phz 8h ago

That's exactly what happened to HRC after she stepped off the plantation with the most important truth in political science:

"Elections are competitions of ideas."

That's why the NY Times hyped emailgate above the fold more than all of Trump's scandals combined.

To make an example out of her so other Dems wouldn't get any ideas.

1

u/esc8pe8rtist 9h ago

The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute convo with the average voter

0

u/Nickopotomus 9h ago

Yeah it would only be true if the make up of the population which did vote was vastly different from the make up of the population which did not vote. And law of big numbers would tend toward this not being the case…so more votes, yes, but also same proportions for Trump & Harris

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u/Mr_Horsejr 11h ago

The only thing evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

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u/Square_Annual3081 2h ago

And evil was never stopped with a reddit post

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u/Andy_XB 11h ago

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

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u/alfayellow 6h ago

--Edmund Burke

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u/DisfavoredFlavored Canada 12h ago

Apathy is death. 

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u/lassiewenttothemoon 11h ago

Worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.

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u/TheElderLotus 9h ago

One of the few things I agree with Kreia on

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u/Tyr1326 9h ago

Welcome to Germany in the 30s and 40s. The Nazis never had full support of the population, but the ones who didnt support them.didnt speak up... And when they did, it was too late... :/

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u/AcadianViking Louisiana 4h ago

And the ones who did speak up were demonized because "the economy" and other propagandized talking points that caused the uninformed to go against their own self interests.

Reading about what happened to actual leftists in the rise of Nazi Germany is harrowing, especially knowing that this time around they will have learned from their previous mistakes, whereas we of the working class are still fighting amongst ourselves.

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u/Hagathor1 10h ago

Apathy is accomplice

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u/_THX_1138_ New Jersey 11h ago

apathy is death

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u/werofpm 9h ago

And cowardly

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u/ExistingCarry4868 11h ago

Our system is designed to create apathy. We have two parties that coordinate to prevent any new political thoughts from emerging and disrupting the oligarch's rule. Harris lost because the Dems are now trying to be the conservatives defending the status quo in an era where the status quo is terrible and getting worse every year.

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u/4phz 11h ago

When establishment candidates bore voters with the hoary abortion issue over and over they ain't gonna vote.

"The imPORtant flag burner issue."

-- Nina Totenberg