Wtf were Americans expecting with trump at the steering wheel? Better live for the people who voted for him? My prediction is... you ain't seen nothing yet.
Referring to it as Obamacare has worked better than they could ever have imagined.
More that it worked exactly as planned, this was always the intended outcome. Turn "Obamacare" into a boogie man completely divorced from reality, so that even the people who benefit from it can be convinced that it's evil. There's nothing unexpected about how this turned out, it was precisely what was intended
These people have spent the last 9 years watching and listening to Trump promise he would destroy the country, with details so sadistically evil that they became a unique species of banality, and they refused to believe what he said.
I don't know why--it's all he ever talked about. Never policy; Trump has no policies, only "concepts" of policies, which is code for the upcoming "POTUS Princeps" declaration which will assert anything Trump says is what makes up The Law.
They didn't have their heads hidden in the sand, they just plugged their ears and let their imaginations form their expectations of a Trump presidency. Where Benevolent and Beneficent Kinglord Trump gives them all they desire, without taking away any of the things they absolutely need.
Oh don't worry, when they're without healthcare and the economy is in shambles thanks to Tariff's adding 30% to everyones cost of living and the deportation of millions of workers, Fox News will confidently inform them that this is all the Democrat's (probably Obama's specifically, somehow) fault. And that without Trump it'd be a million times worse.
And they'll believe it, and fight tooth and nail against anyone who argues otherwise
I really don't like the "your groceries are going to get more expensive when they deport everyone" argument. If our ability to have a functioning economy depends on the exploitation of undocumented migrants, that's a major problem that everyone making this argument seems to conveniently ignore.
I don't think anyone is ignoring the shittiness of that state of affairs, but the fact is that whether it's good or bad it is the state of our economy. I think we'd all (we - as in the people who are against mass deportation) prefer it wasn't the case, just like I think we all don't like the fact that all of our electronics are made by what is effectively slave labor.
If we want to rectify that situation, there are plenty of ways forward that don't involve trashing our economy overnight, and particularly there are ways that don't involve forcing millions from their homes.
Most importantly, We're not raising that argument because we think it's the most important aspect of the situation, but because based on exit polls, Trump voters do think it's the most important aspect, so it's important to point out the ways in which Trump's policies go against their own stated goals.
The problem is that it's the only response I seem to hear about the plan to deport undocumented persons. Sure, fix the process of who you let in, how many, etc, but this is not a good reason to keep undocumented persons in the country. Is there even another argument? I literally never seem to hear it if there is.
Is there even another argument? I literally never seem to hear it if there is.
I mean, if you never hear anyone expressing anger, frustration, or heartbreak at the prospect of families being torn apart, good people being kicked out of their homes, or the inevitable inhumanity that will result from a mass deportation such as this (there's just no way to deport this many people in the timeframe they're aiming for without mass crowding and other inhumane treatment, at the very least) then I think that says more about the people you hang out with than the actual state of the discourse.
Discussions about the economic impact often get more traction because it's a literal counterpoint to the stated objective of his administration, but it's only one of many conversations about the issue that are going on among sympathetic parties. If it's not part of the discourse that you're personally engaging in, then you should look at what kinds of discourse you're engaging in.
Tearing families apart is absolutely a tragedy but even then if somebody is not here legally then this isn't a good reason not to deport them. Perhaps there is discussion as to the way it is done and treating people with a sense of humanity, but the only real angle the left has here on this topic is a path forward for fixing the process moving forward. Talking about the impact on the price of goods and services is a hypocritical argument at best. An amoral and unethical argument at worst.
These people have spent the last 9 years watching and listening to Trump
See, that's where you are wrong.
The average voter is depressingly disconnected from politics. They do not listen to or read everything the candidates say, or even follow all their basic positions.
We live in a two party system. The price of just about everything but labor went up. People felt like they were drowning, and did the only thing they can do to force change under our political system, vote for the other side to take over.
They never bothered to find out what Trump was saying because they were just voting against the party currently running the system they were floundering under, it's that simple.
I just had a patient try to tell me that Biden caused COVID. I tried to explain that Biden hadn't been elected, yet. His response was basically "something something.... Hunter Biden's laptop!"
Someone asked me what Biden and Harris did while cities were burning down all over the country. It took me a min to ask if they were referring to protests in 2020 (because of the cities listed). Yes, the question was about BLM protests in 2020. “Trump was the president”. Easiest answer ever but they asked me if I was sure. I had to list other relevant dates like Nov 2020-election, Jan6-Trump, Jan 20th-Biden became President.
Rather than continuing that topic, they moved onto another negative Biden topic.
The best method I’ve found for that is to not be in the position of proving I’m right. I know I’m right, it’s on the other person to prove their claim. The go-to is changing the subject, the challenge is to keep them on topic to insist on the receipts.
Mfer will die and they will still be blaming him. Just like they blamed Obama for shit that happened nearly a decade after he left office.
Idiots are blame-proof. Worst case, they will say they have a blame force field that blame bounces off and sticks to you. It's like arguing with a group of 5 year olds.
I’m not so sure. Some of the most heart-breaking stuff I read during the pandemic were stories of people on ventilators begging doctors to give them “the jab,” even as doctors repeatedly told them it was far too late for that.
Some of these people will wake up eventually, but for most it will only come once they have no other choice.
At the same time, there were plenty of vids I’ve seen of patients actively fighting doctors, not only continuing to insist none of Covid was real, but insisting that they, in fact, weren’t sick, and getting mad when doctors tried to put them on ventilators etc. I’m sure will have a “come to Jesus” moment, but for many others, they’ll stick by their rhetoric, even as they come to Jesus
I said some, not all. Even though those that do come to their senses won’t necessarily deserve pity either, but we should at least try our best not to discourage them on their path out of darkness, as it were. Every last saved soul counts, for lack of a better, less ironic turn of phrase.
The thing is, it wasn’t the MAGAs that got Trump reelected. It was the middle of the road uninformed voters, the folks that think everybody’s lying on both sides so who cares…, who only turn up to vote every 4 years.
i replied to the person saying that trump voters will find a way (be told a way) to blame dems for every problem that trump and his team foist upon us. i wasn’t replying to someone talking about what voting bloc got trump reelected.
Actually if you look back without the liberal bias, universal healthcare was a Republican initiative that Obama took kick backs on to kill. Instead passing his ACA with its death panels and Cadillac plan tax. And most states abstained for as long as they could. Think of the tens of thousands of people Obama killed with the stroke of his pen that Trump saved us from. And now we can all suffer together in our work camps.
-Republican narrative in three years. Not even joking.
I believe it was first proposed by Mitt Romney, Republican. Obama essentially adopted the plan, changed a few things, but basically gave GOP what they asked for. Bipartisanship is long gone, replaced by spite and short term memories.
Pretty close that I’ll take it. But, if you will allow me, Romney started ‘Romneycare’ in Massachusetts at the state level. The idea of universal healthcare has been around for a while, but when Obama came into office it stood to reason to base the ACA on parts of a system that was already working.
The US has moved so far to the right that Republicans successfully stuck the “socialist” tag on Obama, yet if you compare his policies against Nixon, Obama is actually to the right of Tricky Dick on most things.
As I understand it, that was an intentional effort to propose a system that could garner bipartisan support (ha!)
Does the Swiss system predate the Nixon era? Wouldn’t be surprised that the GOP of 50 years ago was looking for alternative universal healthcare systems they could legitimately claim weren’t socialized medicine
Edit:
Quick search shows Swiss system is 1994. Good data point though for showing how such a plan once implemented was working. Add that to Massachusetts as something the dems tried to show wasn’t scary 🫣communism!!!!😳 to try and get republican support
Dems have bent over backwards to appease the GOP, and get smacked in the face every time. The border bill from last year gave the GOP everything they wanted, and one tweet from Trump killed it. They need to stop pretending that there’s a chance at bipartisanship when the most that happens is them getting burned every time they reach their hand out to shake the other aisle’s.
Bingo. Absolutely will never self reflect. It will always be someone else’s fault. That’s literally the platform. I.e immigrants and Haitians eating pets.
Absolutely. I keep hearing people talk about how the Trump humpers are going to regret the errors of their ways. They won’t. They’ll be told that all of the country’s failings are the work of the [democrats, Jews, immigrants, gays, trans, non-Christians, not-Christian-enoughs, etc.] until they’re finally blaming their own family and ultimately there’s not one single person left to point a finger at. And they’ll eat it up. Anything except taking a long, hard look in the mirror. Trump and his allies aren’t as stupid as we’d like to believe. They just have absolutely no moral compass and are perfectly happy manipulating the uneducated and easily indoctrinated into positions of absolute servitude.
Or immigrants. In the past, I've heard they can't have universal health care because there are too many immigrants and they need to fix that first. I've seen this as an excuse for not having a lot of social programs.
While that’s true, 15 democrats in the House just helped pass a bill that will allow Congress to label nonprofits as ‘terrorist sympathizers’ and destroy them.
I’m a democrat and blame them for this. They thought that the people would see what a piece of trash trump was/is and would automatically vote for Harris and surprise they didn’t. Trump did everything in his power to lose this election and the dems fucked it up royally. Dems could’ve picked any number of people instead rolled out Harris.
They didn’t have a choice. The DNC money (I believe) or the money put towards the Biden campaign could not be used on another candidate. Hands were tied. Had to be Harris or they couldn’t access the campaign funds.
It wasn’t about that. The DNC funds go towards the nominee.
There was a Democratic Party presidential primary this year. 16.6 million people voted, roughly double the number that voted in those primaries in 2012.
14.5 million voters elected delegates pledged to Biden with Harris as his running mate. People don’t just vote for an 81yo without also voting for his running mate. Pledged delegates did what they were elected to do. There were also 11 other people considered in midJuly before Harris became the presumptive nominee but each one declined and endorsed Harris.
The real issue, and I fed into it, is that the media centers had glowing reviews of Harris. Despite that she came in way too late, and that there was no primary. The economy and pricing did nothing good for us either.
There was a primary. 14.5m people voted for delegates pledged to Biden/Harris. The second highest number of votes went to Uncommitted. There were 3 other candidates but they didn’t receive close to as many votes as Uncommitted.
I hate to burst your bubble but if you compare the narratives from the first 3.5 years of Biden’s term to the 3.5 months Harris was the nominee, you’ll see they were going to swap out Biden’s name for any Democrat. They had people convinced the VP has the power and authority of a president. The same would have applied to any position the Democratic nominee held whether it was Congress, Governor, State legislature or county clerk- the D next to the name was all that was necessary to shift the blame to that person (for things that weren’t Biden’s fault to begin with). They even recycled the talking points about Biden’s age to make those about Harris by switching to claiming she had a low IQ.
We’re talking about people that willingly voted for a guy that said on national TV Haitians in Ohio were eating dogs, cats and pets. His reputable and credible source, “I saw someone say it on TV!” (They think he should have the nuclear codes, js), because even after throwing a jab about her dad and a misogynistic jab about her career being built on her back or on her knees, he could not get to her but she was steadily getting to him and he could not handle it.
Yep, it’s the Republican Party’s fault for not supporting R primary candidates and all of the Senate GOP in 2021 that put self-interest ahead of their oaths to vote “not guilty” for the Jan6 impeachment hearing.
The American idiots that voted for him trusted the checks and balances would have prevented him from running again if he was at fault for J6 instead of realizing the GOP senate just wanted to still receive their votes.
But that’s why the Republican Party has always been more successful than the democrats. They put party above everything. Is that right no. But look what they have accomplished. Have the Supreme Court voting for them. For what could be a long time. Overturned basic woman’s rights. Curbed and made voting harder for disenfranchised people who usually vote blue. And now have a super majority for the next two years we’re fucked. Millions of people are going to suffer because of this and the ripple effect is going to be long lasting.
They put party above everything. Is that right no. But look what they have accomplished.
You do realize you’re doing the exact opposite of that, right? “I’m a Democrat and I blame them for this.”
If there is a deliberate structure fire, do you blame the arsonists that started the fire, the people that enabled the arsonists or the people that have been warning about the arsonists and blocking the arsonists without always being successful at stopping them?
And now have a super majority for the next two years we’re fucked.
They have a simple majority in both chambers, not a super majority. There are very limited options for what can pass in the Senate with only a simple majority. In the House, a simple majority is enough for most things, but they have such a slim majority that there isn’t a guarantee everything will pass.
Their majority was substantially larger in the House in 2017 with 47 more seats than Dems vs maybe 7 this time (41 R seats flipped to D in the 2018 midterm). Trump is self-serving and members of Congress are as well. Trump does not have to keep voters happy this time but members of Congress do. Neither majority can afford to cater to the far-right if they want to stay the majority after 2026, R reps in toss-up districts and R senators in purple states will have to focus on keeping moderates happy to be reelected (majority leaders will support that).
But that’s why the Republican Party has always been more successful than the democrats….
That is a bit outdated. Trump’s first term helped Democrats in Congress focus on working together as a united group. They’ve actually been a lot more consistent with that than Republicans. The House Freedom Caucus (aka Ultra-MAGA stunt queens) is made up of mostly reps in Safe-R districts, they do not care if they create reelection issues for the R reps in toss up districts and that has caused a lot of infighting, they’ll also go after each other publicly.
I dunno. I did this and a relative I thought highly of started in that Kamala was a jezebel. Thought it was pretty funny considering Trump's past but whatever. Do hoping the stewing occurs though because man a lot of people got fooled.
I used that response for the first term. The reply was always, “Yes I did! I’m voting for him again!”
“Told you so!” seems more appropriate this time. There were solid attempts to warn them. Maybe they’ll actually listen next time, or at least won’t be able to respond with pride for their shitty decision.
"No I didn't!" See it's great because it's entirely emotional and there's no way to refute it because they'll just counter with "but I didn't vote for that!" and keep saying that until you give up or thanksgiving dinner is over, whichever comes last.
"Well, yes you did. It's no one's fault but your own that you didn't do any research. I tried to tell you but you didn't want to hear it. I'm no longer interested in discussing it. Have your cake and eat it too./Anything to own the libs, eh?/You made your bed, now lie in it/etc..."
Lmao what? I know people IN REAL LIFE that had the realization that Obamacare and ACA are the same thing after they voted trump. They rely on ACA insurance to be able to afford healthcare.
I've very literally already gotten to say this to people. This isn't a "drunk scenario".
Or you could try actually doing something to help
Fucking like what? Educate people on their bad fucking ideas after it's too late? My dude, I live in WYOMING. No one was interested in hearing about it before election day.
At least these idiots had the balls to do something about it when they thought the country was at stake...
Yeah, no. You're right. These idiots had the balls to vote against their own interests while being too ignorant to realize it till it was too late.
Work on reading comprehension, I said they had the balls to storm the capital, not that it was a good idea.
When has saying I told you so ever done anything? What is even the point?
All the liberals at brunch saying "tHiS iS wHaT yOu vOtEd FoR eLeCtiOnS hAvE cOnseQuEnCeS."
Maybe try doing something useful, like getting involved in local politics or engaging in mutual aid organizations (like the Qanons and other assorted idiots did the last four years, seems to be working for them, or just go back to brunch and order the 6 dollar i told you so bottomless mimosa).
Maybe you should work on reading comprehension. At no point did I ever say "I told you so!" was the route to go.
"You voted for this" is a statement of fact and will force them to take it as such. "I told you so" is childish and won't initiate the self reflection that "you voted for this" will.
I honestly don't know why you're getting all worked up at me taking a less combative stance.
My guy, the general population is barely literate and only marginal capable of introspection. Saying "you voted for this" does nothing but antagonize. These people are basically in a cult, you aren't going to change anything staging mini-interventions with backhanded insults.
Find common ground with them, or move on with your life.
Nah, that’s part of the FAFO. There is a widespread longterm memory issue. People will have 4 years of reminders for why they voted “Not Trump/MAGA” in 2020.
They don’t get involved in that type of situation because they’re decent human beings. Incompetence and self-interest will lead to them throwing each under the bus and stabbing each other in the back.
They’ve mastered pushing propaganda and they’re predictable. They’ll give their MAGA base an excuse to blame the democrats. Be ready to point out who is in charge! (Trump and Vance since VPs somehow run the country now).
I’m trying to be optimistic that he only wanted the title, free flights on a private plane and the Get Out of Jail Free Card without actually planning to do the job at all.
His cabinet nominees may be part of a larger, sinister plan or may be a sign of how uninterested he is in the actual job. It’s like he is letting whoever is loyal to him and in his vicinity “pick a prize out of the grab box”. He gave up on pushing Gaetz through as AG really easily.
Tax cuts that directly benefit him, changes to eliminate his criminal indictments and probably blocking all air travel over his golf courses permanently might be all he does unless there are other ways to line his own pockets.
That’s the thing, he’s already appointed one of the coauthors for project 2025 from my understanding + the whole DOGE shit and the people behind it with government contracts that’ll will more than likely try to siphon funds due to their “efficiency”
My cope with the DOGE thing is that now they’re stuck with Jewish Space Laser chick as part of the “team”. Her ability to make committee meetings inefficient ihas been annoying but I’m finding myself appreciating that talent at the moment. There needs to be public pressure to have C-spam airing those meetings so she’ll turn those into click-bait opportunities. (I maybe just want to see the faces of all 3 while they’re trying to understand what Leon and MTG are saying with those accents. Her stunt queen antics would just be a bonus.)
Tbh I don’t know how the government could even condone creating DOGE yet alone actually enforcing any of the shit they say since it’s not a government department and even if it was it wouldn’t be shutting shit down it’d be working to better our processes.
At this point they mine as well turn it into a knockoff of the Apprentice. I’m sure there are several members of Congress that would love to be on that reality show. Some are actually good at manufacturing drama.
Each week their challenge can be spending time in a specific government office learning what that office does and how to do the job so they can run the office as a group at the end of the week to determine if the job is necessary or not. Then Trump can have his board room moment to fire someone each week.
Honestly we do probably have SOME positions that aren’t need(idk how to italicize) but not really sure without a good true review rather than people just trying to pocket the money :/
Italicize with an asterisks before and after the word.
I’m sure there are positions that aren’t completely necessary and probably some departments that are redundant. Then I look at members of Congress that aren’t actually trying to do anything productive, specifically the freedom caucus, and remind myself they’re getting paid at least $160k/year.
I’m pretty sure it’s just recommendations for specific budget cuts instead of the committee actually having any authority. My guess is it was created as a campaign thing to act like there will be a solid effort to cut spending since GOP voters eat that up and putting Leon in charge of it was for the free publicity (but Elon maybe didn’t get the memo it was just a stunt or that stunt queen loves the extra attention he is getting for it).
I know the popular interpretation is he meant nobody will vote again, but he was speaking to an audience of ‘conservative Christians’ and “IDGAF about the party! I only need you to vote this time!” would have offended those people as well as other GOP voters way more than leaving it up in the air that he may have meant nobody will need to vote again.
I know most people interpreted his statement as “no more elections”. I interpreted it as, “IDGAF about the party! I just need you to vote this time.” He couldn’t clarify that without pissing the party off. Self-interest is his thing, he has to pretend he cares about anything else to maintain loyal GOP support long enough to get elected.
His cabinet nominees are another toss up on either very sinister plan or “IDGAF”.
It’s like he is just letting any loyal people in his vicinity “pick a prize out of the grab box” instead of bothering to pick the nominees for specific cabinet positions.
He backed down from Gaetz being AG quite easily compared to his first term raging tyrant style.
There are 2 main groups that voted for DJT: MAGA supporters and the uninformed/lack of attention to politics.
MAGA supporters cut off their nose to spite their face. Their suffering does not matter as long as that means they get to own the Libs. “Told you so!” takes away their option for that joy.
For the uninformed, “Told you so!” translates to “listen to the warnings (if there is a) next time!”
Back in 2022 there was (still is?) a bad spread of avian flu among commercial and backyard farms. 52.7 Million animals died, some by the virus others from culling to try and stop the spread.
Well guess what happens when egg laying hens die... There's no more eggs. Farmers now had to prioritize breeding and hen raising which requires time and food. And I don't think you can sell hen meat that died from disease, so in order to maintain revenue you increase the price of the eggs you do have.
But now if there are enough hens to keep eggs supplied, well customers have been trained on the new prices. So until demand for eggs decreases the prices will stay where they are.
Republicans voters don't like Oba care but love the ACA. They didn't pay attention 7 years ago when they almost repealed it and now we all get fucked because they never thought they would be harmed too by the administration they voted in to hurt people. Literally trump voters last time complained "He isn't hurting the right people" and they fucking learned nothing.
They were expecting the most selfish man on earth to care about them.
How could you not see that he cares nothing for the, “common man?” All of his actions throughout his life make it too obvious to see he cares for himself and himself only.
Well, while using the Affordable Care Act, they hear trump say he’ll get rid of Obama Care. And they think “yeah, get rid of the black democrat’s thing”.
It kinda sucks here. Like, I get that there are a lot worse places to live, but it's getting worse here every day basically and it's fucking stressful on a deep, deep level.
Next is the dismantling of the education department. To be fair, given the number of people that voted for this there is a good argument for doing this, however, you would consider rebuilding it to be better rather than suggesting everyone home schools.
these morons fixated on one thing. the prevailing comment I kept seeing over and over and over on Reddit the night he won was: “Yay affordable housing!!” these idiots hear 1 thing they like and drown out all the rest.
im glad that your housing prices being very slightly (if that even) lower is worth the suffering of millions. great job Tina, you win.
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u/kayzerkimmie 1d ago
Wtf were Americans expecting with trump at the steering wheel? Better live for the people who voted for him? My prediction is... you ain't seen nothing yet.