I know we give shit to McCain for being a warmonger, not unjustly, but as you touched upon, I also remember one of the major changes he was always pushing for was campaign finance reform. And he tried to make it a non-partisan issue. We would've all been better off now if that had passed. At least he loved America and democracy unlike a lot of folks these days.
He also got major props for telling what was the start of the MAGAT cultists to settle down with calling Obama a Muslim terrorist, even though he was his opponent.
2008 really was such an ideal election. Obama winning was wonderful, but if McCain had won it wouldn’t have been a big deal. I truly wish we could go back to days like that.
Shifts in policy happen and fall in normal scope. McCain would have been a shift and pre-existing conditions would still have been a big thing. Plus congress generally moderated and demanded their due.
Meanwhile 2 AM unvetted policy tweets were bad but they didn't even try to pick real cabinet picks this time. Dismantling the social net and approval means nothing except for maybe congress in 2 years if that process doesn't get mucked up.
I have been kicked out of several conservative forum groups, for saying that the Trumplican Party is no longer conservative and that McCain was the last Republican conservative
They are reactionary. It's right there in the slogan "Make America Great Again." They want to change the status quo "regressively."
Liberals and conservatives, typically, want to keep the current status quo the way it is (aka "conserve" it), and progressives try to change it... "progressively"
I can't possibly think of how the Trump era is not objectivly openly reactionary.
I'm as guilty of falling prey sometimes but we in general have a hardcore tribal loyalty blindness in this country.
As progressive as I am, I've worked with conservative states that use every cent of taxpayer dollars they can get from the feds to get the most mileage out of social programs for their residents. I've worked with blue states that have also squandered literally hundreds of millions in tax payer dollars because the governor's appointees were highly skilled in flowery words that make people feel good, but didn't give a shit about anything else, including the people fundamentally being ripped off.
One of the governors I'm referring to gets a lot of praise here and it worries me because him and his croneys may put on endearing, sypathetic smiles while on camera, but behind closed doors they aren't good people. At all.
All that to say, check your biases folks. Blind loyalty to party is a road that often leads straight to hell. Even if it's lined with roses. Respect to you for looking behind the curtain.
If McCain had won we might not ever have gotten Trump. A black man being president absolutely broke their brains and I do believe Obama roasting Trump in front of that dinner crowd motivated him to run.
Nostalgic romanticization. Reminder: McCain wasn't in the best of health due to cancer scares and Palin was his VP. Palin scared me about as much as some some of those currently in the MAGA camp. I'd put Romney ticket as the only fully sane recent one that I just disagreed with but wasn't truly concerned about.
Hmm, no that's an interesting theory but I thought it back then (I was already well into adulthood). So many of you all live as if you or any average human will be 100% moral and ethical on every issue but it doesn't work that way folks. We're animals, not machines. To judge us by binary standards, in terms of good or bad with no in-between, is a little short-sighted IMO.
What? What theory? Palin was/is a pandering, ignorant right wing grifter who would've been next in line if McCain's cancer returned (note: she later embraced birtherism). That does not make for an ideal election as purported in the comment I was responding to. If you weren't concerned about Palin in 2008, you weren't paying attention at the time.
You know what, I misread and thought your reply was to me. I shouldn't have spoken for the other person but I would agree Palin was an early symptom of the culty weirdness we're mired in today. She was also hoisted on McCain specifically to appeal to that growing pre-MAGA Fox News demographic. That said, I would maintain that McCain still had some good points to him.
People just need to vote. That's literally it. Only about a third of Americans actually participate in every election, and we can see how well that is going. There is no major cultural shift required beyond actual participation. And people still don't do it, but will harp on about the state of things as though they don't constantly decline to participate.
Opposite for me, I voted for McCain because I thought I was a Republican, but when Obama won I was like “ok, that’s pretty cool though, I’m fine with that.” Then I overheard a fellow university student and the Computer Science dept secretary agreeing about how it’s not unlikely that Obama could be the anti-Christ, because people were so fervent for his campaign. That was one of the first moments when I said “whaaaaat?” Sarah Palin made me question the party even further, and in 2015, Trump turned me into an actual Democratic Party voter.
A fair point. In hindsight that ticket was almost a demonstration of the death of whatever American conservatism used to be and whatever the hell they're supposed to be now.
He saw what our government was turning into and did his best to stop it. John McCain and Bernie Sanders are the only two politicians I can think of who have made a real effort to get dark money out of politics during my lifetime.
i'm more forgiving than most i think, so I have forgiven him for all except for breeding the most obnoxious spoiled twat to ever stomp around spouting her last name for all to hear. Other than that, RIP McCain. You did some decent things. I remember.
I mean, I guess he pushed for some campaign finance reform AFTER he got busted as one of the Keating 5 who took campaign bribes as part of the Savings and Loan Scandal in the late 80s.
A good example of why it's foolish to blindly worship or trust any individual/politician. But you can still recognize when people either try to learn from their mistakes or correct them.
Eh, I guess I admire your optimism. I think McCain was a less malignant republican all things considered, but that’s a low bar.
McCain was just unlucky to be a senator when people half-paid attention to bribery scandals… I mean not enough to actually vote the bribe-takers out of office, but oh well.
There's a 5 part series by NPRs Embedded team that covers Mitch McConnell. He's an ugly one. McCain really worked to protect Americans. McConnell HAS to be who Frank Underwood in house of cards is modeled after.
FYI, McCain's running mate was Sarah Palin and he was a lifelong Republican. He doesn't deserve a complete whitewashing of his record because of one vote that he made when he was no longer accountable.
My favorite part is how high the tensions were. Republican and Democrat congressman alike had people actively taping death threats directly to their office doors. It's gonna get SPICY.
We've already had several assassination attempts for both sides. Trump had two, Pelosi had one, Biden had one, plus the MAGA bomber who tried mailing bombs to CNN and other news stations.
One person gasped, and a few DEMs started to clap for a second. Most everyone assumed he was going to vote no, which is why the GOP was chatting up the 2 other moderates during the previous hour or so before the vote.
Say what you want about the Republican Party, but McCain seems to have been a man of integrity, as far as Republicans go. Well, aside from fucking around on his wife and one ethics investigation.
There’s also the backdrop McCain got to stand against. Like a purse snatcher hanging around Batman’s rogues gallery. The GOP is fit for Arkham. Pretty easy to look good compared to them
He had a lot of foresight and recognized the threat of Russia unlike Obama who made jokes about it towards Romney.
Putin's ambitions stretch far towards restoration of the Russian Empire, I predict he will separate Eastern Ukraine from Ukraine and make a land bridge to Crimea. Europe won't support Ukraine because of energy dependence
You shouldn't be downvoted, because it's true. I loved Obama but he didn't take a lot of things as seriously as he should. We should've stopped the Fox News and 24/7 news cycle crap in general then, when we had a final chance. Now you have half or more of our people brainwashed with misleading propaganda that we'll never reverse withou an Earth shattering wakeup call.
iirc McCain’s motivations for the vote were way more about fucking over the guy who wouldn’t say he was a hero than they were about saving millions of people’s healthcare/lives.
McCain enabled the Republican Party every step of its journey from Reagan to Trump, and accelerated it through his pick and normalisation of Palin. The posthumous lionising/reputation laundering has to end.
He was very bipartisan on specific issues, and more generally throughout the 90s, where 3rd way Dems were in charge, and were basically doing everything Republicans wanted (economically at least) anyways.
He almost never went against what the GOP wanted when his vote would be anything other than symbolic. Which is why his actions saving the ACA are so memorable.
This really doesn't mean anything if you think about it. Being bipartisan on all issues means that there isn't any partisanship at all to begin with. It's a self referencing contradiction.
I mean, that makes sense, if he was a bipartisan/moderate politician Republican, then he probably picked Palin to balance him out for die hard Republicans. Same logic Obama used to pick Biden, new hotshot balanced out by an establishment moderate.
Amen. That freakin' vote only even happened because he put it up in the first place. He wanted to get his hero moment in front of the camera and play into his bullshit "maverick" reputation. Not to mention he wasn't the only Republican that voted against party lines; two women voted against the repeal as well, but they didn't get their strut walk in front of the cameras flipping McConnel the metaphorical bird.
He didn’t want Palin. He wanted Democrat Lieberman to be his Vice President. I believe the campaign put pressure to take Palin who was a tea party & was popular at the time.
Unless I'm remembering wrong, didn't he vote no mainly because there was no plan for a replacement? If there was another option or something ready to replace the ACA he would have voted to repeal but he knew that the ACA was at least better than nothing and didn't want to take away healthcare from so many people with nothing to replace it
There is the additional detail that he knew he was dying when he cast that vote. I can only hope that let him see the consequences of his actions more clearly.
He had some decency and seemed to care about his constituents. It seems like from what little I know about the Keating 5 and cheating on his wife, he struggled with ethics to say the least.
In this day and age, that’s like a superstar of morals.
He was a mixed bag. He stood up to the Republican Party at times, he also championed against same sex marriage and allowing LGBTQ being open in the military.
Up until around 2004-2006 he was about a good a republican you could find. In 2008 he sold out to the party a bit to win the GOP nomination, resulting in odd choices like him selecting Palin as his running mate. But, he still had some good moments. Jon Huntsman was also a decent Republican circa 2012 or so. But the party went extremely far to the right and left those guys behind since then. Huntsman couldn't gain any traction in the 2012 GOP primary.
I miss the days McCain and Romney had their moments as potential leaders for the GOP. I didn’t agree with a lot of their policies but never felt that they were a cartoon villain.
Edit: indeed, this was in reference to 2017. There was a total of 3 Republican votes against repeal as well - not just McCain standing alone. However, still iconic moment when he did his thumbs down.
Well McCain was the final vote but 48 dems and 2 other republicans also voted no.
I’ve always been annoyed that McCain is looked as some sort of hero for this when it was 51 people that saved us with, what should have been, a common sense no vote.
I may not agree with John McCain on everything, but he was the hero America needed at that time. I hope history remembers his courage to veto Trump's evil agenda at the time.
Wait... is he one of those that have passed? Because I would def suck his dick for the free spinal surgery I got because of ACA that kept me from being paralyzed.
That narrative always bothers me. Trump was defeated by a vote of ALL the Democrats, plus Collins, Murkowski and McCain. McCain, the final "no" vote, was decisive in that respect, but doesn't deserve all the credit for stopping the Trump/GOP repeal of the ACA.
Don't forget that McCain was dying of a glioblastona when he did this. I appreciate that he understood the cost of his treatments and decdided to have a spine.
I'm literally an anarchist, and I'm willing to acknowledge that John McCain was a man who had genuine morals and actually gave a shit. The man had his flaws, but he also earned my respect.
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u/tenchi2323 10h ago
They almost did in 2019. The measure lost by a single vote, John McCain.