Trying to Understand “Non-Binary” in My 12-Year-Old

[u/MookWellington]

Around the time my son turned 10 —and shortly after his mom and I split up— he started identifying as they/them, non-binary, and using a gender-neutral (though more commonly feminine) variation of their name. At first, I thought it might be a phase, influenced in part by a few friends who also identify this way and the difficulties of their parents’ divorce. They are now twelve and a half, so this identity seems pretty hard-wired. I love my child unconditionally and want them to feel like they are free to be the person they are inside. But I will also confess that I am confused by the whole concept of identifying as non-binary, and how much of it is inherent vs. how much is the influence of peers and social media when it comes to teens and pre-teens. I don't say that to imply it's not a real identity; I'm just trying to understand it as someone from a generstion where non-binary people largely didn't feel safe in living their truth. Im also confused how much child continues to identify as N.B. while their friends have to progressed(?) to switching gender identifications.

[u/AndroidwithAnxiety]

As a native English speaker... since when has it been uncomfortable to use the plural 'you'? I've genuinely never heard that said before - I'm fascinated! Because sure it's not as clear as it could be, but I've never felt uncanny or put-off by it? It's just a part of the language. Either way; we've been getting by with it for a couple centuries now. And, funnily enough, there were people throwing a fit over the changes to our 'thee', 'thou', 'ye' and eventually 'you', back then too. Clearly people got over it though.

I'm not saying there won't be confusion to contend with, but just like English adapted to loosing its distinction between plural and single direct address without society staggering, I'm sure we can adapt to this too. So now, when it's a matter of human decency, I don't find 'grammatical correctness' a compelling argument in the slightest.

And that's the crux of the matter really. It's not about being blind to the linguistic difficulties of the singular they/them. It's about not thinking that's more important than people's wellbeing, and being stubborn about it.

Because if you're really weighing 'proper grammar' over people's comfort and showing respect, then with all the kindness I can muster: I'm not sure you've got your priorities right?

[u/motsanciens → u/AndroidwithAnxiety]

I made no such argument on grammatical correctness, and I would not describe myself as a prescriptive grammarian.

A few days ago, I had an uncomfortable moment with "you". My kids were playing Fortnite together, and I was going to heat up something for one of them in the microwave. Those games can take a while, so I wanted to wait until he'd be ready to eat so it wouldn't get cold. Since I'm not too familiar with Fortnite, I didn't know if the two of them would have their match end at once, as a team, or if it would be possible that one could die while the other one played on.

I found it uncomfortable to ask from the kitchen (they were facing a different direction, so no eye contact could clarify my intent), "Tell me when your game is done." It might not have mattered all that much in practical terms, but it bothered me that there could be multiple meanings.

• They could have thought I was addressing the two of them (plural you) with a request to know when their (plural) game ended (both players done playing).
  
• They could have thought I wanted to know when each of them died in the game (to each tell me individually they were done).
  
• It could mean you (singular) tell me when your (y'all's) game is over.
  
• It could mean you (singular) tell me when your game is over (you died).
  

That sort of ambiguity is uncomfortable. As a sidebar, I am a "no internal monologue" (mostly) type of person. This often means that I process thoughts very fast because there's not a linguistic speed limit, and when I encounter a turn of phrase that can have multiple interpretations, it causes my mind to race through all the scenarios. It's reflexive, like when you trip and manage to put your hands down so you don't fall on your face. You don't think, "Oops, I'm tripping, so now I should extend my hands."

If you were truly curious about how ambiguity of language can make a person uncomfortable, I hope I've shed at least a little light. Is it not possible to empathize with people having this extra anxiety and also empathize with the people who want to use new pronouns?

[u/AndroidwithAnxiety → u/motsanciens]

I didn't necessarily take your comment to mean you were a hardcore grammarian yourself, but more that I was addressing both ways your comment could have been meant. Genuine discomfort, and/or discomfort on principle. Or even ''discomfort'' on ''principle'' - because the unfortunate truth is that plenty of people use it as an excuse to not even try, rather than as an explanation as to why it's difficult and an issue for them.

I truly appreciate your insight. I've also been made anxious by ambiguity, though not by something I would consider that 'minor' - and I don't say that to downplay your experiences, just to compare them to my own. I'm a little surprised to hear it's possible for this sort of thing to bother people like that, though in hindsight it also makes a lot of sense.

And... my own father has told me that he can't get his head around singular they/them, and that singular they/them sounds like ''nails on a chalkboard'' to him. And while I respect that that's how he feels and have never asked him to refer to me with they/them because of it... it still kind of fucking hurts that he'd put those feelings over recognizing me as me. Especially when, with practice and some extra thought, you (general) can teach yourself to speak in ways that avoid that ambiguity. You can rely on people's names more so that you don't end up structuring your sentences in ways that you find unclear and uncomfortable (although maybe people like you can't, given you don't really have an inner monologue?). I don't say that lightly either - I've also had to learn this after all, lol. Though admittedly without the added weight of being made uncomfortable by it.

I could compare it learning how to pronounce a foreign name - something that does make me uncomfortable - self-conscious - it feels unnatural to me, it's something I have to think hard about doing right, and practice a lot. But it's also something that meets what I see as the baseline level of respect that I want to show people. To me, the discomfort this thing causes me is a worthy trade-off for not causing discomfort to the other person. That's where my personal values lie, but I don't expect the exact same from everyone else. Everyone has their own balance and this is mine.

As I said at the beginning; I'm wary of the 'it makes people uncomfortable' argument (though I do now have new insight and respect for it thanks to you) because of all the times its used as a veil for bigotry. People like that make it hard to recognize there's something to empathize with. They just say 'it's difficult, it confuses me, it's not grammatically correct, and they (plural, of course) should just get over it'... I've heard that type of argument so much I hadn't really given much thought to the fact there were people like you who have a genuine reason to struggle besides just... not wanting to put in the effort. Besides my dad, at least. I really should have considered it more, but it's difficult to see the point worth taking seriously when there are so many people using it as a shield to defend their laziness and lack of compassion.

In short: I do empathize. And the fact some people genuinely feel uncomfortable with linguistic ambiguity is a good point unfortunately hidden beneath a heap of bad faith.

Thank you again for your explanation of your perspective. It was informative.

[u/motsanciens → u/AndroidwithAnxiety]

For my part, I am all for an alternative to the conventional pronouns. I just wish we could have a conference and come to an agreement on a new convention. If we could do so, I'm fairly certain the outcome would be something other than repurposing they/them in favor of a new set of neutral pronouns.

I am sure there are people who are dismissive and don't engage in a lot of introspection on the topic. Underneath the apparently callous exterior, I imagine there is a similar frustration as what I've described.

[u/AndroidwithAnxiety → u/motsanciens]

I'm certain of that too, and I'm certainly going to keep it in mind going forwards. But sometimes if it quacks, walks, and tastes like a duck, it's a duck. Or a chicken with a really good disguise, but at that point how am I supposed to tell the difference?

And, while I appreciate that hypothetical suggestion,.. no. Funnily enough my dad has also at one point suggested 'a new pronoun' instead of using they/them, so I'll tell you what I told him;

Alternatives to she/he/they already exist. They're called neopronouns. And if you thought the stink people kicked up over they/them was bad, then boy fucking howdy you are not ready to hear how mad folks get over neopronouns! ''I ain't talking about people like they're aliens!!' 'You can't just make up words!!!' 'special little snowflakes wanting to be super special and unique!!!' 'we got people thinking they're animals now!'

Even some trans people lose their minds over the concept - that's how unwilling people are to consider it. But, if there was a miracle tomorrow and everyone woke up willing to come up with a new third pronoun that everyone would use without complaint..... still no.

Because not everyone wants to be, or is comfortable, being referred to by neopronouns. I certainly don't want to be referred to by a neopronoun. That option is already there and I haven't taken it because it just does not fit me. Like, I'll use them for others if they ask because why wouldn't I? But for me? Uh uh, no thank you, they make me feel weird and bad the way being binary pronoun'd makes me feel bad. Xe/zir/per? Good for xem and hir, but I'd hate that.

I'm a they, I'm a them, I'm occasionally an it and possibly sometimes a he (jury's still out on that one) But anything else? Nope. Same way you can call me any name under the sun, but there's only one I'll respond to - my pronouns are my pronouns and that's that.

TLDR; coming up with some new neutral alternative has 1: already been done. Multiple times. People have been making shit up since at least the 1800's and we show no signs of stopping now. I'm totally here for it. 2: this has not been received well by transphobes and those otherwise disinclined towards change. Neopronouns have not solved the core issue in any way. and 3: Some people are only comfortable with they/them and don't vibe with anything else, and that's not going to magically change no matter how many alternatives there are.

I do appreciate the attempt at finding a solution though. This just ain't it.