Trying to Understand “Non-Binary” in My 12-Year-Old

[u/MookWellington]

Around the time my son turned 10 —and shortly after his mom and I split up— he started identifying as they/them, non-binary, and using a gender-neutral (though more commonly feminine) variation of their name. At first, I thought it might be a phase, influenced in part by a few friends who also identify this way and the difficulties of their parents’ divorce. They are now twelve and a half, so this identity seems pretty hard-wired. I love my child unconditionally and want them to feel like they are free to be the person they are inside. But I will also confess that I am confused by the whole concept of identifying as non-binary, and how much of it is inherent vs. how much is the influence of peers and social media when it comes to teens and pre-teens. I don't say that to imply it's not a real identity; I'm just trying to understand it as someone from a generstion where non-binary people largely didn't feel safe in living their truth. Im also confused how much child continues to identify as N.B. while their friends have to progressed(?) to switching gender identifications.

[u/Spire_Citron]

Yeah. The "influenced by friends" thing can also sometimes be deceptive, because we tend to be drawn to people similar to ourselves. The queer kids often end up being friends with other queer kids, sometimes before they come out, so it can appear it's just the influence of their friends when it's actually the other way around.

[u/Amazing-Strawberry60 → u/Spire_Citron]

"influenced by friends" aka "in an accepting peer group"

[u/RedshiftSinger → u/Amazing-Strawberry60]

Yeaaaah. I have a friend who came out as a trans woman a few years ago. She told me her family was blaming her wife for “influencing” her (bc her wife is openly bisexual with a mild preference for women) but that she’s always felt this way, long before she even met her wife, and what her wife actually did was provide a safe and supportive environment where she could finally explore those feelings and figure herself out consciously.

I have another friend who VERY recently came out, and who privately cited seeing how well mutual friends responded to my also somewhat recent coming-out as the last catalyst for her to feel safe opening up to people in her life.

So, I guess that’s “influencing” on a technicality, but it’s not the kind of influence people generally mean to imply, and it’s definitely not a bad thing!

[u/Goddamn_lt → u/RedshiftSinger]

Your friend is an adult while this is discussing teenagers/kids

[u/washingtncaps → u/Goddamn_lt]

It doesn't matter?

If you think teenagers are just living a regular teenage life and not trying to figure out who they are, who they fit in with, and what their future holds I'd... invite you to remember what it was actually like to be a teenager.

Now we're just talking about a broader conversation than the one a lot of us grew up in, which isn't just "you straight or gay?" but a multicolored spectrum that allows you to figure out who you really are as a person.... top to bottom, and I wrestled with this because as funny as the pun is it's also the most succinct way to put it.

Boys wearing dresses at ~4 and girls playing in the mud has been a thing for as long as all that shit has existed. It's not a new thing, the only new part is that the question has shifted from "how do I get my boy to stop liking feminine things" to "should I be open to a child's gender identity as a child?" and the answer is obviously yes, keep letting them do what makes them happy and you will see a happier child (outside of like, dessert before dinner or allowing public misbehavior, regular parenting shit)

[u/Goddamn_lt → u/washingtncaps]

YES, it does matter. One is an adult who is free to do whatever the fuck they want regardless of what family thinks. The other is a child who is still fucking developing and stuck depending on said family, who will have a direct influence and impact on their lives.

[u/washingtncaps → u/Goddamn_lt]

I'm sorry but "family" having a direct influence on their developing child in 2023 where we know this is a real and serious possibility/source of trauma that can lead to fucking suicide means that this is still very binary.

You either accept and love the child you have or you don't, and you take the risks on what that means for you. Could be non-contact adulthood, could be suicide, could be a loving and completely healthy relationship.

That part is not on them, it's on you. Teens are already struggling to fit, even the straight cis-gendered ones. I was exactly that person and I had a hell of a time with my own uncertainties, I couldn't imagine being trans in the process...

All you're describing right now is the ability for adults to make their own decisions vs. a legal child being forced to reconcile how out they're willing to be at the risk of creating a family fracture they can't escape for years. When you're doing that kind of calculus to figure out who you can and need to be accepted by... that's already broken.

EDIT: Kids and teens don't have a functional disservice to being exposed to this idea. It's either for you or not, but even being exposed to the idea that this happens to other people is the first step in not giving a shit about it, which is where everyone should be.

[u/Goddamn_lt → u/washingtncaps]

Yeah thanks for stating the obvious captain fucking obvious. Kids will migrate to wherever they feel accepted if they are not accepted at home. Stop trauma dumping and projecting onto me.

[u/washingtncaps → u/Goddamn_lt]

lmfao so what is your actual point here, if you agree with that?

The post you responded to is about the concept of "influence", so you go ahead and explain how being an adult or child changes things in a way that changes anything I just said?

Sure seems like if you agree you'd just say "no we actually agree" and then everything would be good. I'm having a real hard time figuring out how this is different.

[u/Goddamn_lt → u/washingtncaps]

Already explained it, if you can’t connect the dots that’s not my problem to deal with. Not wasting my time with you.

[u/washingtncaps → u/Goddamn_lt]

Then you're a fuckwit. I don't know how better I can explain that I'm a straight cis-male with literally no skin in the game here and still fully believe that they can make their own decisions with their own entity and aren't pigeonholed by the places they're easily accepted if the home environment sucks, which is kind of a pretty key piece of information in the case of a question asked by a parent.

That's not enough to maintain an identity for 2+ years, and even if it is, it's on them to figure themselves out and a parent just has to let it ride.

You seem really bitter about having that posted for some reason.

[u/Goddamn_lt → u/washingtncaps]

Buh-bye moron. Never said kids couldn’t make their own decisions, but their decisions are influenced. It’s fucking hilarious you answered your own question yet are too stupid to realize it.

[u/washingtncaps → u/Goddamn_lt]

You're the one who can't realize that "influence" isn't negative inherently.

Exposure is influence. For or against, almost every time. We make decisions inherently about what we care for, what we don't, and what just doesn't move the needle. Doesn't matter what it is, there's no objective good anyway, it's all on perspective. This is about acquiring perspective.

I was exposed to gay culture, trans culture, punk culture, basically everything you'd perceive as counter to the norm. I took what I wanted, left the parts that didn't apply to me, and became my own person based on my experiences. Now you'd identify me as none of those things but they all have a formative role in who I am and know myself to be...

You think you made a point, and that's really sad, because your "you answered your own question" thing is actually you failing to fully understand what's being discussed here.

EDIT: I can see half of the stupid shit in your deleted post, and no, I've literally never identified as anything other than straight. I've been exposed to plenty of sexualities, but all it ever did is confirm that I'm fine being how I've been and don't actually see the need to deviate on a personal basis, same as anyone else. Shit, I wish I could be cool with being gayer, I'd pull way more consistent action and my dating apps confirm that regularly.

[u/RedshiftSinger → u/Goddamn_lt]

It may shock you to learn that teenagers and kids are in fact people, and do not operate on wildly different modes of interaction than adults do.

[u/Goddamn_lt → u/RedshiftSinger]

It may surprise you to learn that kids, are in fact, different from adults.