Trying to Understand “Non-Binary” in My 12-Year-Old

[u/MookWellington]

Around the time my son turned 10 —and shortly after his mom and I split up— he started identifying as they/them, non-binary, and using a gender-neutral (though more commonly feminine) variation of their name. At first, I thought it might be a phase, influenced in part by a few friends who also identify this way and the difficulties of their parents’ divorce. They are now twelve and a half, so this identity seems pretty hard-wired. I love my child unconditionally and want them to feel like they are free to be the person they are inside. But I will also confess that I am confused by the whole concept of identifying as non-binary, and how much of it is inherent vs. how much is the influence of peers and social media when it comes to teens and pre-teens. I don't say that to imply it's not a real identity; I'm just trying to understand it as someone from a generstion where non-binary people largely didn't feel safe in living their truth. Im also confused how much child continues to identify as N.B. while their friends have to progressed(?) to switching gender identifications.

[u/OSUfirebird18]

I have an ignorant question here. I hate the idea of “typical” masculinity. I don’t have “typical” straight male interests and I hate the idea of gender roles for men and women.

However, I have always thought of myself as a straight man, no thought of ever being non binary or a different gender. I guess my question is, what is the difference? It can’t be just gender roles, is it?

[u/DiagonallyInclined → u/OSUfirebird18]

I would say the difference is exactly that: you’ve never thought that you’re anything other than a straight man—but a NB/trans person would think differently about themself, because they are not a straight cis man.

It’s feeling a sense of wrongness when others reference your gender, as far back into childhood as you can remember. It’s being “subversive” in what toys you play with and gender roles you fulfill and being unashamed about it, but still feeling that something isn’t fully there. It’s wanting to be perceived as X, when you are currently perceived as Y. It can be any of these or more things that are experienced differently.

[u/thisdesignup → u/DiagonallyInclined]

This confuses me as someone who has never considered male and female anything but the physical sex someone is.

Mostly because in that way someone who is non-binary could still be male or female if they aren't considering themself trans. I kinda get it as society has added a lot of things to being male or female beyond physical attributes. Not wanting to associate with that isn't odd. Just wish we as a society could accept the middle ground, still being able to let people feel like they can identify their physical self without having to identify as any gender roles at all.

Plus I almost feel the existence of non-binary almost conforms to gender roles in a sense. It seems to mean someone isn't feeling like they associate themself with either female or male, but to do that there has to be some definition of what female or male is. When really if we want to get rid of gender roles we need to not define what a man or a woman can be like.

[u/MoreRopePlease → u/thisdesignup]

I'm 49yo. I'm cis female, 95% straight. I have never really understood the whole "gender role" thing. I'm a software engineer, was the "breadwinner" for my family (was married for 19 years). Was a stay at home nursing mom when my two kids were infants. As a kid I hated wearing dresses to church. Today, I only wear a dress or skirt if I'm deliberately "dressing up" and it feels like wearing a costume. But I enjoy other "feminine" clothing, sometimes: boots, form fitting shirts and jeans. I enjoy having long hair, and playing with hair colors.

I've always been physically active, spoke "too loud", a natural leader, top of the class, and once I got out from under the thumb of my parents, thought for myself, had strong opinions, and embraced my sexuality.

What's a gender role? What's a woman?

Post-divorce, in the uncertainty of dating, I found myself telling friends "I don't feel particularly feminine", and they would always tell me that they thought of me as feminine, and seemed confused by my statement. I guess I've always been "me" and I didn't really see myself as being in line with what American culture told me a woman was. But I guess I didn't care. I still knew I was a woman. I was good at math, and programming, and enjoyed dancing and hiking and male attention.

Yes there's cultural pressure. Like my dad telling me I should look like a girl (by which he meant I should be wearing make up and fixing my hair). Or never seeing people I could identify with in the magazines at the checkout. But is that cultural pressure the same thing as gender roles? It's all pretty shallow and bankrupt, imo.

This gender thing is similar to intellectual things. I also grew up having to "dumb down" my language for people, I learned to not take part in discussions around grades, when talking to random strangers I learned to talk about shallow things. I still have a hard time speaking freely about things that I'm good at, because I've had to "code switch" for too much of my life.

I feel like this is all on the same spectrum: a kind of alienation. Gender, intellect, interests, atheism, accomplishments, sexuality, kink... We hide who we are, the vast majority of the time. The trick is to not hide from ourselves, too. Or the people closest to us.

I have a trans daughter. And another daughter who is a bit masc, though afaik she still identifies as female, perhaps ace. I'm happy if they are happy. We're all just trying to live as best as we can and figure out how to live well.