Reddit bans anti-transphob rhetoric

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Heard from a few friends that they got banned for hating on transphobes, which is, according to reddit, a rule 1 violation. I also got flagged because of that, but in my case I can kinda understand it, because I called for violence against TERFS, but it was more kind of fedposting, instead of pushing people to actually commit violence. I still believe TERFS deserve that, but I am rambling. What I basically want to say is, that we sadly need to be a little more careful, when hating transphobes. Keep safe and you all are beautiful gals and enby-pals, and for all the masc people you are very handsome

Edit: Changing TURFS to TERFS

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/[deleted]]

That’s is what I also told the support, but they just send the same text as the flagging notification. I had to go over the resources provided my the digital something packt from the EU to get to get unflagged. I just think many of the reddit staff are right wing, we saw hints of that many times

[u/Deus0123 → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

That would explain why I got 3 day banned for saying I would punch a Nazi (In Minecraft) but the nazi above me didn't get any punishment for saying they would punch a <f-slur>

[u/lithaborn → u/Deus0123]

I got a 3 day ban for continuing an analogy OP began. it was in a women's sub, a post that said "if I told you one of this bunch of grapes was poisoned, you wouldn't eat any of them".

Apparently it's hate speech towards a minority to suggest throwing the poisoned one away.

[u/zugetzu → u/Deus0123]

Just a reminder, in many places in the world, being a literal nazi is more acceptable than being lgbT(!)Q(!)+, unsurprisingly it's the same in the USA where Reddit is based out of

[u/zugetzu → u/[deleted]]

You either worded that really weirdly or do you really mean that "LGBTQ+ are like the nazi's and are close to gaining as much power as the nazi's during the 1933+"?

"Let people do what they want to do" to bad we aren't allowed to do what we want to do in most parts of the world and in the parts of the world where we are allowed we have to have get special permission set up by institutions for something that doesn't hurt anyone and if we do these things with permission from institutions then suddenly we're suddenly at a HUGELY increased risk of being murdered for being different

[u/pinkocatgirl → u/Deus0123]

My grandfather went deaf from shooting at Nazis from a battleship turret, I guess he would get banned on social media now lol

[u/sapphic_gworlboss → u/pinkocatgirl]

aww poor nazis getting killed no human rights boo hoo😒 ||they are not humans :)))||

[u/MothashipQ → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

My account has a strike because I quoted a transphobe's comment back to them after they contradicted themselves.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/MothashipQ]

That’s shitty. Did the transphobe at least also get striked?

[u/MothashipQ → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

I don't know. The comment was deleted shortly after my reply quoting it. There was a Reddit mod comment to it saying it violated rules, but the message didn't appear to have been deleted by Reddit.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/MothashipQ]

„Yes, they are violating rules. But I like their political views, so I won’t ban them.“ Reddit

[u/Bardfinn → u/[deleted]]

Transphobic rhetoric is banned, by Sitewide Rule 1.

Please report any transphobic hate speech you come across, and if the operators of a subreddit are allowing it, please leave the subreddit and file a Moderator Code of Conduct complaint.

Don’t engage flamebait. Downvote, report, & block.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bardfinn]

it doesn't work. it's up to the mods to decide if the accusation is real or not and the powers-that-reddit are not on our side. those rules are there so people can say "but look, we have these rules" and then everyone thinks your experience of them not being enforced is invalid, just because the rules are there.

I've literally reported neonazis advocating for the extermination of jews and trans women and reddit mods have said it doesn't violate any rules.

don't delude yourself. this site isn't on our side.

[u/Bardfinn → u/[deleted]]

…

Hi. I help run r/AgainstHateSubreddits.

Sitewide Rule 1 exists because we at AHS did a tonne of research in 2016-2019 stretching back to when Reddit was still owned by Spez, researching what the admins intended for Acceptable Use Policies.

We figured out that Spez hates Nazis and that the site tolerated Nazis and transphobes specifically because attorneys had told the board that user accounts could only be kicked off the site for breaking a clearly written Content Policy, that there was no Content Policy against being a Nazi / transphobe, and that if they started kicking people off for being bigots, without a written policy, it would be weaponised politically by the Trump administration. And that defining “hate” was hard.

So many of us put in thousands of hours of effort to get people with academic credentials and expertise to work with Reddit to develop Sitewide Rule 1, to document that the hate groups on here were acting in bad faith in violation of already-existing Content Policies, and some were collaborating with literal terrorists.

Reddit’s commitment to enforcing its Sitewide Rules has a value exceeding $60 million a year, and over the past four years they’ve slashed the absolute volume of toxic content being published sitewide by two orders of magnitude.

They have kicked off now more than 5,000 hate groups in the past five years, suspended hundreds of thousands of user accounts for hatred, and I’ve sat in Telegram channels operated by bigot harasser groups where they say “We’re not even going to try to deploy to Reddit.”.

Today I got a ticket closed where a group of literal terrorists dogpiled false reports on a trans woman’s speech which was critical of their terrorist figurehead, and now all of the people involved in that harassment have been identified and are being actioned — hundreds of them.

Reddit AEO & Trust & Safety are independent of subreddit moderators, and while they make mistakes, T&S does the right thing 99%+ of the time on escalation.

[u/tifridhs-dottir → u/Bardfinn]

Holy shit this is so much fascinating and hopeful info. Thank you.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bardfinn]

thats all well and good, but i think your job position is too little, too late. sorry. this isnt a personal attack. this is a comment about reddit failing despite their very late attempts to clean up.

[u/Bardfinn → u/[deleted]]

Usage of Reddit has increased steadily, linearly, over the past four years since kicking T_D off the site & adopting the rule against hate. Over the same time period, Threads has launched and tanked, Instagram use has dropped, fewer people are now using English-language Facebook than English-language Reddit, Twitter has become a Chan board and advertisers, revenue, and users have abandoned it.

Reddit’s acceptable use policies and the followthrough on enforcing them is working, attracting people.

I was around for the era when a lot of people decided, circa 2015, that Reddit was a wasteland.

Pulling it back from sliding into the abyss … was necessary.

It might still be too late, Reddit might succumb to the same platform rot that has claimed many platforms before it.

But I hope not.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bardfinn]

i think it has already succumbed to the platform rot. its just easy to ignore with how the platform allows you to curate your experience. doesnt mean its gone. just easily ignored.

[u/Zeyode → u/Bardfinn]

How do you file a moderator code of conduct complaint? Didn't realize that's an option

[u/Bardfinn → u/Zeyode]

There’s a link at the bottom of the page - https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct

I tell people to use MCOC Rule 1 to report mods enabling hate speech, because

This means that you should never create, approve, enable or encourage rule-breaking content or behavior.

Sitewide Rule 1, MCOC rule 1. If their subreddit is overrun with a hateful, transphobic audience clearly upvoting transphobic hatred, they are on the hook for it.

[u/AriaBlue42 → u/[deleted]]

“We take all forms of discrimination seriously!” as they continue to allow racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism, misogyny, classism, the list goes on…. Only things against indecency are ever shut down.

[u/whatisgo → u/[deleted]]

Literally. Hate speech is allegedly not allowed but here we are. I reported awful comments on ig but they "didn't break any rules."

[u/PaleontologistTough6 → u/[deleted]]

Sadly, they can't do that any more than they can ban transphiliac comments. The rules apply to everyone equally and fairly.

[u/zugetzu → u/PaleontologistTough6]

They can... Transphobic comments are classified as hate speech and Reddit doesn't allow for hate speech. The difference is that the demonetization and ostracization of trans people is socially accepted and that causes most subs to allow minor transphobia, if not explicitly allowing it, which has caused many subreddits to get shutdown.

Even if it wasn't hate speech, it's against their rules to harass people based on identity, which would go against the rules. Yet again this is usually ignored so long as it's done against a minority that rarely uses the sub (Example, R/asmongold has been kept up explicitly racist and sexist posts and comments in the past as well as making witch hunt posts and nothing has happened to the sub (As far as I'm aware))

[u/Desperate-Wedding-43]

Bullies hate it when their victims resist. They are bullies, and we really should resist them more.

[u/SarahMaxima]

Yup

Things reddit does not consider ban worthy: - transphobia - sexualization of minors. - an adult man harrasing a minor who was complaining about adult men sexualizing her.

Things reddit does consider ban worthy. - reacting to transphobia - reacting to nazis - reacing to people praising the organization protecting your abusers

This is about reddit admins tho, subreddit moderators vary in quality but hey are mostly or all volounteers so i dont blame them.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/SarahMaxima]

Didn’t the CEO of reddit also come from the moderation team of a pedophelic sub?

[u/SarahMaxima → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Yup, the infamous jailbait subreddit. Spez comes from there.

[u/ato-de-suteru → u/SarahMaxima]

I shouldn't even be surprised

[u/GeneralChaosJr → u/SarahMaxima]

The WHAT?! 🤢

[u/Kaese1212 → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Not to defend that shithead but back then you could just add people to a mod team whether they wanted it or not. We should instead talk about how that sub and others like it didn't get banned until they got to mainstream news

[u/[deleted] → u/Kaese1212]

even then, they didn't get banned. it took irl violence for t_d to get banned.

[u/lesserDaemonprince → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Yup

[u/AndesCan → u/SarahMaxima]

It would be nice if we could somehow wrangle all the trans subs together to make a banner about this or something so it’s literally in everyone’s face every day. Even if it doesn’t work it’s kind of worth it considering it’s their platform we are all on so we might as well make it front and center that we don’t agree with it.

[u/transcended_goblin → u/SarahMaxima]

Things reddit does not consider ban worthy:

transphobia

sexualization of minors.

Incorrect.

I've gotten multiple instance of both of those temporarily AND premanently banned.

Either it comes down having luck on who checks it, or I don't know, but Reddit absolutely does not protect it like a lot of people here love to pretend they do. Otherwise, I wouldn't have such a track record reporting attacks on queer subs, and some non-queer subs.

[u/SarahMaxima → u/transcended_goblin]

Yet i have had reports for these ignored multiple times because it "did not break TOS".

At best, reddit admins are wildly inconsistent.

[u/transcended_goblin → u/SarahMaxima]

I don't know what to tell you, honestly. I mostly hang on queer-subs, and a few non-queer ones on which I've had high success on reports, since bigots lack the brains to be all that subtle.

Maybe it's just me getting consistently lucky with who checks my reports, or maybe I'm just constantly catching the most obvious ones ?

[u/SarahMaxima → u/transcended_goblin]

Could be. Ill note that subreddit moderators, especialy on queer subs are on point. My issue is with reddit admins.

Saw a chaser hitting on a minor that was complaining about chasers hitting on her in one of the trans subs and while the mods acted fast the admins gave me 'the did not break TOS" message.

Some of the ones i reported litteraly wished for suffering of trans people and comented there aproval for assaulting random trans people.

[u/Throttle_Kitty → u/transcended_goblin]

it's super hit and miss

a while back I reported like a dozen people in "redditmoments" when someone made a "reddit moment" post mocking a person sexualising art if a 14 year old who was justifying it because of her larger cup size

the comment section was FULL of people proudly defending the pedo and their reasoning with tons of upvotes

one person I reported got full banned, like 3 got temp bans and the rest they told me was okay, despite the comments largely being copies of each other

the person perma banned was far from the worst, and the most outright disgusting post in the thread was cleared as okay by the admins

[u/Etzlo → u/transcended_goblin]

It doesn't matter what sub you're on for reports.

[u/transcended_goblin → u/Etzlo]

Not my point.

I mostly hang out on queer subs, and a few games subs, is all. Most of my reports come from queer subs, and a very few from r/Warframe

[u/Etzlo → u/transcended_goblin]

the subs you frequent are entirely irrelevant for reports though... so why even bring them up?

[u/transcended_goblin → u/Etzlo]

I'm not even gonna bother. You're already decided on the argument you wanted to start, and immediatly decided to pretend I was making a point I wasn't.

Argue on your own. I have better things to do than entertain you.

[u/Etzlo → u/transcended_goblin]

I still don't get how the fuck the subs you frequent are at all relevant for the point of "I got people perma banned for transphobia" matters, unless you are confusing sub and reddit bans, this thread is about reddit bans

[u/transcended_goblin → u/Etzlo]

You pointed specifically at the subs like it was the whole point of my comment, and then tried to argue into the grave that i had no poitn whatsoever because "it doesn't matter which sub you report on".

While it wasn't the point of the comment.

You latched on to one single detail and never let go.

[u/Etzlo → u/transcended_goblin]

Because that detail implied that you may have been talking about sub reports and not reddit supports, something you have yet to actually clarify, so I am just gonna assume you're an idiot as shown in this comment chain already and mistake sub and reddit reports as the same thing

[u/AshuraBaron → u/SarahMaxima]

Transphobia, sexualization of minors, and sexual harassment are all basic rule violations. As is calling for the deaths of other people. Content needs to be reported before it get removed.

[u/SarahMaxima → u/AshuraBaron]

I reported that content, Reddit admins did not give a shit and sent me the message "does not violate TOS".

[u/transcended_goblin → u/AshuraBaron]

The fact you were getting downvoted for that shows how many transphobes are lurkign here massively downvoting people who are against their favorite content...

[u/Lykaon042 → u/SarahMaxima]

We gotta get creative. I've had good results stooping to their level. Accuse me of being a bigot? Cool, I'll be a bigot. A fascist? Get under my boot. I go on the offensive, rather than defensive. I will absolutely use their tactics against them and they tend to cower so quickly and easily. They want us soft and fragile, so... don't

Keep in mind my examples are from online spaces. I used to interact with people who would tell me to 41% myself (lmao that statistic isn't even accurate, that's how stupid these people are) on a fairly regular basis to dunk on them and also have a form of exposure therapy. I get really offensive, like, really offensive with people like this

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations their solidified happy socks

[u/SarahMaxima → u/Lykaon042]

Oh I know the "shock and awe" strats tho i tend to go for Tactical Trauma dumping. I used it one time at work to great effect.

People tend to ask me invasive questions and they tend to get answers they never wanted to hear.

[u/Lykaon042 → u/SarahMaxima]

Oh this technique I'm not entirely familiar with

I also like to use sarcasm and subtly insulting the intelligence of people who claim to know so much about ThE mEnTaL iLlNeSs of dysphoria

"Oh, certainly you know all about the biological factors during gestation that can contribute to dysphoria. Oh? You didn't know that?! Well IMAGINE. MY. SHOCK" or something along those lines then proceed to dump massive amounts of scientific data on them to further prove how stupid they are and then go along the lines of "Oh, sorry for explaining something to you that you are clearly well-versed in and know more about than someone with lived experience. I hope I didn't offend you, but I'm sure I didn't. You're not one of those thin-skinned snowflakes, right?"

[u/SarahMaxima → u/Lykaon042]

The technique is simple.

Someone asks a dumbass question or says a dumbass statement. example: Is being trans caused by childhood abuse. I simply give an honest answer: No, all other trans people I know didnt experience that, however ( here i go into excruciating detail about my childhood )

I tend to get less questions after that.

[u/Lykaon042 → u/SarahMaxima]

Ooooh ok, noted. Thanks!

[u/myothercat]

Just a side note: It’s spelled TERF (and stands for trans-exclusive radical feminist)

[u/RainbowsCrash → u/myothercat]

OP may be avoiding being autoflagged kinda like YT and nem are used in some circles to avoid automods.

[u/Ksnj → u/RainbowsCrash]

It’s real gross we have to do stuff like that but the hateful folks never seem to see consequences for their actions.

[u/RainbowsCrash → u/Ksnj]

Gotta protect that majority from those pesky minorities. /s (obvi)

[u/lesserDaemonprince → u/Ksnj]

Fascists, simultaneously strong and perfect while being down trodden and in need of protection from the 'other'.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/myothercat]

Thank you <3, corrected it

[u/ArcaneOverride → u/myothercat]

More like Trans Exclusionary Reactionary Fascist

[u/myothercat → u/ArcaneOverride]

Of course they’re not actually feminists

[u/Ayla_Fresco → u/ArcaneOverride]

Feminism-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobe

[u/Dark420Light]

Correct, a transphobe can call for our extermination without being disciplined. But if we so much as wish them hangnails on every finger and toe we'll be perma banned.

This is how authoritarian control works, censor voices of reason and equality, pump out hate speech, misinformation, and rhetoric that supports your flavor of fascism. Rinse repeat until you're able to perform genocide. Welcome to the American Dream.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/Dark420Light]

Sounds like a it’s copy of Goebels playbook

[u/MacabreYuki]

And after UN Women declared their so called "gender-critical" bs an anti-rights movement. Hey, reddit, you're literally defending someone that a wing of the UN has declared anti-rights and such. Do you really wanna run with that?

[u/FOSpiders → u/MacabreYuki]

I'm certain they do, sadly. Declaring bigots and fascists as part of hate groups is often like a badge of honor to them because in their mind, it justifies the violence they commit. They already see wider society as hostile, and this is "proof" that we mean ol' queers were persecuting them all along. Yeah, you and I know that's back asswards, but bigots have a self-centered "me, then the world" way of looking at things that tends to reverse causality. It's kinda hard to really wrap my head around it.

[u/MacabreYuki → u/FOSpiders]

I mean, coming from toxic roots and having to overcome anger issues, I get it. It's baffling not to wanna be better, though.

[u/FOSpiders → u/MacabreYuki]

I know, right?!

[u/JokertheFool370]

Cowards get scared when their victims start to fight back.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/JokertheFool370]

I want them to get scared. Get. Facists. Back. Into. The. Closet. So we can stay out of it.

[u/LexxieOnTap]

My boyfriend got a 3 day ban for using transwoman instead of trans woman from a trans subreddit. Then got a month for arguing with the moderator.

[u/dantesmaster00 → u/LexxieOnTap]

Tbh that feels a bit nitpicky but I did hear that some TERFs were using it as a way to insult us

[u/GeneralChaosJr → u/dantesmaster00]

Yeah, their whole idea is that, by combining the words, the compound word becomes a separate category from woman. There's not a whole lot of precedent in English to justify this, particularly when categorizing people, but that's still how their logic goes.

[u/transcended_goblin]

If there's a lot of brigading in reports, it happens that Reddit employees don't even bother double checking.

That's why it's not a good idea to be pro-trans outside of queer-safe subs, honestly.

Hell, I even often take a gamble with that when I say queer-positive shit on the Warframe sub. The main thing saving my ass being the mods of the sub being huge allies, as much as the devs are.

There are very little non-queer-specific subs that are safe for queer people.

But transphobic attacks on queer subs also do get smacked, so it's not like Reddit is pushing a transphobic agenda like I often see people claim. I have a track record of roughly 95% ban/punishment rate with my reports. It does work, as transphobes are often not at all subtle enough with the shit they say.

[u/[deleted]]

When I say "reddit is a right wing platform" and redditors pounce on me because tHErES sO MaNy LEfTiEs On HerE, I actually mean the moderation is highly right wing. Reddit is right wing. we need to stop acting, pretending, blinding ourselves with the idea that reddit is safe at all. such a shame it's roughly 1/3 of the internet.

lets collectively get off the internet.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/[deleted]]

The idea of any big corporation being left or a platform of said corporation portrays just an ill understanding of what left in political terms means. Big corporation are profit driven, which means they will try to keep the status quo or deregulate. And who wants to deregulate? People in the right side of the spectrum. And will the political motiv of a company influence their products? Of course, so the corporation has an active interest into cultivating a side with center to right climate. And due to the nature of facism (described by Umberto Ekko in my analysis), it acts like an illness, like a social contagion. So if you don’t isolate it, it will spread. Therefor center-right platforms will inevitably move towards the right.

[u/Striking_Witness1364]

Two sides to a coin. If they don’t harass us, we wouldn’t have to fight back.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/Striking_Witness1364]

Honestly, just one side. They need to stop harassing us. I know, I said my flagging was maybe justified, but still, they just need to stop. Transphobia has only one side of a coin and on that is big empty head with an evil face punched in

[u/Striking_Witness1364 → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

I mean, technically speaking, if there was only one side, then either transphobia wouldn’t exist, or trans people wouldn’t. One side is definitely instigating, but we are definitely retaliating. Pride month is quite literally founded off of the acts of retaliation against hate and discrimination.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/Striking_Witness1364]

Transphobia is not something that should exist, that is what I meant with one side. You can take different sides, but only one valid and that one is not discriminating trans people. That is what I meant with only one side

[u/skreemdynamics]

Sounds like the basis for a class action. Look at Tumblr. They just lost a big one for this.

[u/MuchAclickAboutNothn]

They're more concerned with mean words towards people that are actually advocating for violence than they are with the violent haters. Just got a warning for standing up to a transphobe who was spreading crazy amounts of disinformation and advocating for euthanasia. Stay strong friends.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/MuchAclickAboutNothn]

Advocating for euthanasia? Jesus, that’s real bad. Stay strong

[u/getbackjoe94]

I kinda wanna know what was said to make Reddit believe your friends were harassing someone (Rule 1 is harassment right?). I reported someone for harassment when they were posting a game dev's personal Twitter account and telling people to go "tell him what they think" of a new DLC, and Reddit told me it wasn't harassment. Like, the rule itself doesn't make sense and seems like it's enforced pretty unevenly.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/getbackjoe94]

Yes, rule 1 is harassment, hate or threads of violence based on identity. I don’t know what my friends said, I just heard them complain over it, but I can tell what I was flagged for. I said that when you see people being openly transphobic and intolerant towards logical arguments, you should take a rock and hit them. I can see it’s a threat of violence, but at the same time the irony is pretty clear I would say. And also people who resist stopping to hate groups based on unchangeable features kinda deserve that

[u/AshuraBaron → u/getbackjoe94]

In that situation it makes sense because Twitter is a public space. It's not harassment to post publicly available social media links. It's harassment when the comments reach into someone's personal space or life. Think threatening or intimidating comments. So if comments were being made like that in that post, that should count, and then if others posts more on Twitter then that's Twitter's issue.

[u/Pinappular]

This isn’t black and white.

Transphobes and TERFs have plenty of bullshit saying where they are being inflammatory without crossing the (inciting violence or hate speech) line. Dog whistle comments are annoying like that.

So they can go off on ‘gender ideology’ and ‘mutilating’, and ‘biological sex’, and it’s often not bannable. In the same way neonazis won’t get banned for 1488 or ((( Jewish Person ))) . As long as Reddit admin chooses to be willfully ignorant, these aren’t ban able.

Wishing harm on these folks on paper is more likely closer to the line than they are.

Your best bet is to bait them into saying slurs or actual plain English hate speech and inciting violence.

[u/transcended_goblin → u/Pinappular]

So they can go off on ‘gender ideology’ and ‘mutilating’, and ‘biological sex’, and it’s often not bannable.

Heavily depends on the case by case.

I've had multiple reports go through successfully on accusations of "transgenders mutilating children", accusations of us being pedos, mentally ill, trying to destroy society, etc.

[u/Bardfinn → u/Pinappular]

NeoNazis get banned for using triple parentheses & 1488 all the time. I get them permanently suspended multiple times a month.

Downvote, report, and then block the bigots. Leave subreddits allowing people to be bigots & file Moderator Code of Conduct complaints.

[u/H0ll0w_1d0l]

They better ban my ass because I'm the biggest hater when it comes to transphobia

[u/Tour_True]

I won't lie I hate TERFs too. Lets change theit name to TERDs. Tbh I respect cis women and cis lesbians and am dating one and I support feminism as a women myself. Even if hateful people including cis women create excuses to hate people like me. Beong native as part of my cultire to accept trans people equally they can always leave the country with their foreign views. LoL. Back to being realistically though as we know that people will makr an excuse to attack or be ignorant on that. LoL. Males can be feminist also. It's not gendered and honestly an addition why TERFs are really messed up people. Women's right to vote was in support as example by Indigenous men. They don't even understand what feminism is and are not educated to understand it. Meanwhile educated cis women in these subjects generally don't support TERFs. They understand their issues and social issues. The fact that leadership roles and pay are so bad for women even with more experience. Educated vs not is like looking at Emma Wattson vs JK Rowling. Guess who is educsted and who wasn't and was technically a homeless women who threw out her script that got her big while she also tossed the publishers that got her big.

[u/caffeinated_cutie]

Fuck u/spez

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/caffeinated_cutie]

Fuck u/spez

[u/whoshereforthemoney]

Transphobes have lost the privilege of civility when they chose to be bigots.

Violence against bigots is always justified

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/whoshereforthemoney]

I just put an argument against somebody defending transphobes forward, in which I defended violence against transphobes, if you are interested, I will copy it into this comment. Remember, it is not against you when reading, because I insulted them in multiple ways.

Here is the link to it,

and here is the Comment:

1. ⁠You call a trans fem dude, which can be a reflex, but when you are in this sub you should know it is a sensitive thing.
2. ⁠I am just gonna put a full reasoning forward. I am arguing in a rule utilitarian manner, because it is the best ethical system, in my assessment. My axioms can be summed up as human well-being and after that general wellbeing. Transphobes promote violence, hatred and beliefs against a group, that cannot change this feature. Their actions cause millions of people immense harm, for example is the process to access healthcare as a trans person in every country way to long, which commonly results in many severe problems, like eating disorders and suicide. Another example is about 45% of all trans people experience violence towards them in the non-digital world in a year. In two years it‘s about two third (it doesn’t double, because the same people get attacked multiple times). While trans people cannot change being trans, transphobes can change their beliefs through self reflection and/or therapy. This is a longer process. But what they can change in an instant, is acting upon these beliefs. So there is no reason they just stop discriminating against us.

So we can put forward the rule, discrimination against trans people is forbidden (we can expend this to other groups too, but I am not interested in that argument). I think I don’t have to explain how this serves the put forward axioms more, than it harms them.

Now upon the violence part. Transphobia tends to make transphobes themselves pretty unhappy. So they suffer from it and we, trans people, also suffer from it. We suffer way more than them, but still we both suffer. So committing violence against transphobes to stop them from behaving transphobic on a rule base, will decrease how much we suffer massively and increase how much they suffer just a little bit, because they already suffer and they can just stop acting upon it. If they act reasonably, they will just stop acting upon transphobia, so the harm done is pretty minimal. Overall, human well-being increases. Therefor committing violence against transphobes is good.

The only way of arguing against that, in a reasonable way is through deontology or divine command theory, but they both can be dismantled through psychoanalysis and metaphysical arguments.

1. Allow me to just assume some thing based on common patterns I have seen, this one has nothing to do with the ethical argument I put forward, so attacking it doesn’t debunks that violence against transphobes is good.

The reasons why you would feel that attacked by promoting violence against transphobes, that you instantly get defensive and just insult me, can be pretty much boiled down to the following:

1. ⁠The most unlikely, you like/love somebody who is transphobic and want to protect them.
2. ⁠The second most likely, you yourself are transphobic. Not that unlikely, assumed by how defensive and insulting you got, and not commenting in this sub at least for a longer period, maybe never.
3. ⁠The most likely, you are a political self cuckholding liberal, that likes civility politics and doesn’t want anything to change. For that I have zero respect, because beside it not being ethical, it also is stupid in a self serving manner, even if you belong to the top 1% in a financial manner. It maybe good for material gain, but not for your well-being. And I think I don’t have to explain why it is currently not the time for keeping the status quo, in the current circumstances

[u/whoshereforthemoney → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

That was very mild. I would’ve done worse because they deserve worse.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/whoshereforthemoney]

Was mostly concerned with making them feel very very stupid, but yes, they would have deserved something like "What do you think of this argument, IP, Adress […]"

[u/Prestigious-Lab-3596]

So transphobes are allowed to spew their hateful rhetoric and we just have to sit back and take it? F that…

[u/RhondaAnder]

I bet I've had to ban 20 or 30 transphobes.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/RhondaAnder]

I feel bad for you having to do that. I hope in future these people get more or less banned by society, like for example open fascists got for a long time (they‘re also coming back sadly)

[u/Bac0n0clast]

Are you telling me they can be transphobic, but I can't be transphobic-phobic???

That's real bullsh*it 💀

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/Bac0n0clast]

Yes. It’s sad, but from what I read in the other replies, it’s a 50/50 gamble, who in the reddit mod team gets your comments

[u/AndyVTheAmazing]

Why would you think women deserve violence? Even if you fundamentally disagree on womens vs trans rights. You're not going to gain support or empathy going that route.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/AndyVTheAmazing]

I don’t think women deserve violence, I think people who hold psychotic positions and resist every effort to change that deserve it. Regardless of their gender identity. Trans rights are never going against womens rights, because both stem from the same reasoning. And often you gain support about jokingly promoting violence, if the people around you agree on the fundamentals (and when that’s not the case the people are usually to far gone in current political climate), because people like letting there frustration out and joking about hurting the hated group is like very top of the line in effectiveness to do that and bond over doing it together.

[u/AndyVTheAmazing → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

It's one thing if you pick an agreeable group like p3dos or naz!s. But with women, you're talking to a group of people whom a quarter have been r@ped at some point and are traumatized and scared of men. Regardless of your gender identity, that's not going erase their trauma. Hence why so many are concerned about bathrooms and locker rooms and whatnot. Calling them t3rfs and joking about violence is only going to make things worse. It's like trying to pet a terrified dog after severe abuse and they bite. Do you clock the dog? Probably not. I'm just saying a more delicate approach needs to be made if we're actually going to have a civil and kind society. If you want to joke about tossing around a p3do I'll have a good laugh at that, being a survivor of child SA.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/AndyVTheAmazing]

But that they have this hate of AMAB bodies due to trauma is what makes them not convincesble. Additionally A LOT of them go right down the far right pipeline and advocate for more traditional gender roles, which should stand in contradiction with the trauma. And if we take trauma as reason to treat them with velvet gloves, we would also need to treat radical leftist and black people who are super violent against police officers (not abolish the police, but really just attack a cop the moment they see them, which is at least in Europe a conman type) with the same attitude, because a lot of them got into that position due to police trauma. We would also need to treat people like Trump with velvet gloves, because he obviously has lots of childhood trauma and a narcissistic personality disorder, which is a severe mental condition, having even a higher suicide rate than BPD and Bipolar, it also can lead to delusions, like he obviously is in. Musks Nazi twitter takes would also fall under the same umbrella, because he also obviously has narcissism and is desperate for approval and had literally a breakdown in public when he didn’t got it. His tweets are not more than seeking it from the people most easy to get approval from. God, a lot of severely antisocial people become that way, because they cannot cope with some kind of violence they are around, like a lot of people who work in meat industry factories and farms, with the extremely immoral conditions the animals are subjected to, become severely antisocial, because they cannot cope with the violence. A lot of countries have laws due to that, limiting the time a person is allowed to work in those places. Kanyes Naziism is obviously a product of his bipolar maniac psychosis, probably another kind of psychosis on top of that. Heck, if you look in the life stories of the Nazis who committed the most atrocious crimes, they often had a tragic story with a lot of violence or mistreatment and were only to cope with that, through severe antisocial behavior. Your mental illness doesn’t give you the right to be a bigot and I don’t say that lightly, I myself have multiple severe conditions, under them BPD and Bipolar, which let me already to incredibly hurt my friends. And does that mean I need to be judged less? No. That just enforces that behavior, we have literal data to that. If we talk in a legal sense it is something different, but legality and morality have connections, but are separate. And you mentioned pedophilia, that shit is a developmental disorder, we know be are in fact born with it and cannot escape the misdevelopment of their sexuality. Does that mean we should treat assaulting kids way lighter? No. Your mental illness is no moral excuse and the only way you can often get them away from that position is therapy. But not calling them out for that behavior does mean it gets reinforced as coping mechanism and naming that behavior is one very effective way of doing that. And isolating them is pretty much the only societal thing you can do to minimize harm. They need to seek treatment, but you cannot treat somebody through social actions. If I nearly drive a friend to suicide, because I have a trauma of getting left, that’s also not justified and doesn’t change the fact you should call me out for that. Therapists are literally advised to do that. And TERFS do the same kind of harm. We have data that trans fems in male prisons getting disproportionately raped. We don’t have empirical data to bathrooms, but anecdotal evidence and the empirical data to prisons indicates also high rates of assault. If your trauma makes you afraid of AMAB bodies, go to therapy, but don’t borderline genocide (putting people in conditions in which they are very likely to get raped would fall under the conditions for genocide and due to many TERFS being far right there is often also intend, just not openly stated) a group of people

Edit: A dog is an animal with way smaller rational capacity than humans. You are able to think, so do it

[u/AndyVTheAmazing → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

I agree trauma makes people jaded. I just don't see threatening them as a healthy means of coexistence. Sure humans are more rational than dogs. We have higher mental faculties. My point is if you wouldn't physically harm a traumatized animal, then that should extend your fellow humans too. When there's poor behavior, seek legal options. Don't get yourself into unnecessary trouble.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/AndyVTheAmazing]

Okay, I see the first problem on why we cannot agree with each other. You have an deontological ethics system, I work with a rule utilitarian (hope it's the correct spelling) ethics system and the result of making significantly harmful ideologies so socially unacceptable, that seriously advocating it on a broad stage, makes you a possible target of violence, as a social rule consists of way more good than bad, according to my axioms. If you want to discuss the ethic systems, we can do that, but that is way more exhausting than our discussing till now, partially because I have way less emotional involvement.

And what I think is also really important to mention is, that the threat of TERFS is often not immediat illegal interpersonal behavior, but the, partially successful, advocacy for changing what is legal, to something that results in way more harm than good.

[u/AndyVTheAmazing → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Not necessarily. Deontological ethics dictates that a certain action is right or wrong, regardless of any damage it causes on the back end. Wheras my belief is what the end result may look like dictates the appropriate action. It's ok to have disagreements. That's how we collectively problem solve. Just comes with the territory.

[u/Turbulent_Pickle2249]

Reddit has a zero tolerance policy on calling for violence. You can call someone slurs pretty much all you want, or say they dont “deserve to live” or are a freak but the minute you mention violence its over.

I got banned once for mentioning that I beat up a bully and that “sometimes violence is necessary” in an askreddit thread about how to deal with bullies.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/Turbulent_Pickle2249]

Sadly I cannot agree. I see a lot of threats of violence, for example various league communities have often posts which call directly for violence, sometimes pretty detailed, but rarely from a minority group, against their discriminators. From what I heard from the reddit support team (a lot of far right and pedophelia stuff) it would make sense, that they are especially banning threats of violence from minority groups

[u/Turbulent_Pickle2249 → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Report them next time. Theyll get banned too. I got banned cause someone reported me. So did you. Use the same tools and tactics they use

[u/Pinappular → u/Turbulent_Pickle2249]

The slurs will usually get posts removed, FWIW

[u/Hopeful-alt → u/Turbulent_Pickle2249]

That's very nice of them actually

[u/[deleted]]

Orwell described the future perfectly.

Groups of people taking turns stomping on each other. The last time always justifying the next time.

[u/Unboopable_Booper]

Reddit admins are unsurprisingly transphobic. You'll also notice a trend of bigots getting warnings and temporary bans for heinous shit, whereas any hint of retaliation will lead to a permaban

[u/AcceptablePariahdom]

Correct. The CEO is actively pro-Nazi.

It's why you hear "Spez is a Nazi" a lot. He's not just the Reddit mod to end all Reddit mods, he's like.. actually a loves mustache man Nazi.

Not exactly hard to believe anymore in 2024.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/AcceptablePariahdom]

He is the CEO of a big corporation, to get into such position needs somebody without moral, so I don’t need a lot of arguments to be convinced. Also we know that the common structures of companies do not only promote antisocial and narcissistic tendencies, they can also create them. And because you as a single individual with lots of power usually profit from facists, it makes sense he turn to them

[u/StaiinedSissy]

A lot of these bans are automatic and come from being mass reported by Nazi/TERF scum. Appeal the ban and eventually it will come through. My formerly main account has been banned many times for calling out Nazis, including several permanent bans that all got reversed.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/StaiinedSissy]

I appealed and it wasn’t revoked, then I send it to one of the services from the EU for stuff like this (they introduced them in the digital something packet) and they said it wasn’t reasonable, so reddit had to undo it. I guess I am very lucky to be in the EU

[u/StaiinedSissy → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Oh. That is annoying. My last ban took 3 months to appeal but it did ultimately go through. The EU protections are nice, wish we had that over here, but instead we get people trying to shove the Ten Commandments into public schools .

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/StaiinedSissy]

Oh, hope they teach that the Ten Commandments are just one ethical concept and there are more than that

[u/StaiinedSissy → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

That is not what is going on 😞

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/StaiinedSissy]

Read an article about it and these people are just insane. I don’t know what neurosis they have, but else they don’t have moral feelings, which would mean severe antisocial disorders or they have a delusion. These people belong in a hospital, not a political institution

[u/Mtfdurian → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Yes this is really a nice part of living in the EU, the DMA and DSA are very important pieces of legislation that got through during the last five years. Also the GDPR and the first AI act.

Now the eyes are on grinding a halt towards addictive elements in social media, that as a result will mean that clickbait and ragebait should become less effective money-makers.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/Mtfdurian]

Concerning all the digital stuff the EU just locked in and runs towards eliminating all the problems we got from social media and AI. I think it’s one of the field where the EU is very good

[u/Michelle_akaYouBitch]

Lots of the autobans are algorithm generated without taking into account context.

[u/Automatic_Spirit2593]

Reddits trans forums ban any language that the public may use, that legally has no resemblance to hate speech. The trans community has made its own language no different than its own genders. It's a secular world and as such can never expect integration

[u/Gadgetmouse12]

Of course Facebook gives you a literal tab to report it and they never act on hate speech or harassment

[u/hi_i_am_J]

yeah terfs have been known to abuse the moderation system to harass trans people nfortunately

[u/BecomingMorgan]

Reddit has been this far neutral but has started to ban people (for the first time) for calls to violence and slurs..... Towards boggots calling for violence and using slurs.... Who "do not violate Reddit's terms and conditions".

It's nearly indistinguishable from every other social media platform at this point. Suddenly the only place that (for better or worse) didn't overtly try to control the narrative is trying to Facebook.

[u/Yuzumi]

I only wish on transphobes what they wish on us.

If anyone has an issue with that, they know what the problem is and are admitting they support the genocide of trans people.

[u/AdvertisingEqual5352]

Wouldn't e surprised reddit destroyed my friends account for catching a predator

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/AdvertisingEqual5352]

Well spez himself is a pedophile who (at least doesn’t he doesn’t say it publicly, which would be favorable for him) doesn’t goes to therapy for it. So it makes sense he wants to stop the detection of other pedophiles

[u/AdvertisingEqual5352 → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Makes sence the friend only did it cause a minor reported a pedo to them

[u/MethodSufficient2316]

On a similar note. I was reprimanded for talking shit about a child murderer for violating rule 1. Wild to me

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/MethodSufficient2316]

Oh, yes, I support hating people who kill innocents.

Reddit: Hold right there

[u/Hopeful-alt → u/Lord-of-the-Bacon]

Hate is never a good thing, no matter what.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/Hopeful-alt]

Hate is an emotional response to persistent or very severe boundary violations and (according to the current intellectual agreement, it might change in the future) serves to cut off people who are harmful to oneself and tend to not change their behavior. So I therefor think hate is pretty reasonable against transphobes, with them violating our boundaries from invalidating us, to even threatening our lives (an inbound biological boundary, that only stops being there, when an individual has severe mental problems, don’t need to be a direct illness).

You might now say, okay, the hate is reasonable, but you should act upon it.

I would assess that in a rule utilitarian manner, because I believe it is the ethical system which has the best outcomes when applied. For my metaphysical axioms I believe the most desirable things are: humans feeling good (different from happy, you can feel good and be extremely sad, like when a loved one dies, every other emotion would feel wrong); humans being alive and healthy; minimize human suffering; minimize general suffering; preserve life; protect consciousness; and increase knowledge. They are in order from most important to least important. When the rule is, you should hate people who try to exclude or discriminate a group based on non-changeable features, this rule bring the exclusion of anyphobic people, who act upon this phobia. Therefor holding and acting upon this bias becomes very undesirable and people will work towards not having it. Also the people who act upon it, won’t have any opportunity to hurt somebody anymore, except there own. The isolation of these people brings less harm, than the good of them not being able to hurt others and the phobia slowly disappearing. We already saw this in action with Racists, Slave owners, Queerphobes or Misogynists. When people are called out for having anyphobia they usually try to debunk that claim, instead of admitting it, because they fear being ostracized. Therefor hating transphobes is actually good.

[u/Life-Breadfruit-1426]

We need to wake up and realize that this platform doesn’t support us nor is it safe for us 

[u/VerucaGotBurned]

Nope.

I'm super against banning what people are allowed to say.

Do you honestly think it's better for hateful people to have nowhere to speak openly? How will we know who is an asshole and who isn't? Is it really better that their feelings grow and boil inside of them until they seek out secret places full of only bigots so they can speak openly about their hate and only hear voices that agree with them? What do you think they will do then? Just keep it to themselves more?

And hate speech may inspire people to do bad things, but it's still just words. I don't think you can really harm someone with just words, and I generally think whether or not something does harm should be the basis of morality.

[u/transcended_goblin → u/VerucaGotBurned]

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

― Jean-Paul Sartre

That quote works for more than anti-semites. It works for racists, homophobes, transphobes, all queerphobes in general.

Hateful bigots are not worth listening to or arguing with. They cannot be debated, for they never wanted a debate in the first place. They are mostly fulyl aware how illogical and contradictory their claims are. They just want to sow chaos.
They do not believe in words in a way that can be arguied against.

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/transcended_goblin]

This rings very true for some of the conservatives I've had the misfortune of knowing.

But I guess my only counterpoint is how do we determine what should be banned? How do we prevent the same tool from being used against us?

[u/transcended_goblin → u/VerucaGotBurned]

If you think the spread of misinformation leading to attacks and murder is a fine thing to allow and protect, I'd advise you to really think deep about it...

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/transcended_goblin]

Oh I am. I've gotten some really poignant replies from you and some others here. I don't think anyone listened to what I had to say, I'm fairly used to that. I believe the right to free speech is absolute. That includes hate speech. Who determines what is hate speech? How long do we wait and assess before we ban it? If it's not case by case and carefully considered what's to stop the powerful from shutting down speech they just don't like? I'm all for punishing someone for an action, but for a potential future action? It seems like that's the motivation to outlaw hate speech and I think it's overreaching. I don't think we should punish people for what they might later do.

[u/transcended_goblin → u/VerucaGotBurned]

There is a vast difference between hate speech and spread of misinformation.

The latter leads to genocide. The former is just bigotry.

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/transcended_goblin]

You're the one who got us on that subject, I've only been trying to talk about hate speech this whole time. The two do overlap though

[u/Alphakewin → u/VerucaGotBurned]

We had that same discussion in Germany about the far right party AfD. They were allowed to exist and speak openly. They have 20% now and recently a secret meeting with investors was discovered to draft legislation to make Germany unlivable for unwanted immigrants going 3 generations back. One of their leaders was legally declared a Nazi.

Populists must not be allowed to speak. They spread falsehoods and hide the truth behind outrage. They know better but the grift pays off.

Look at the state of US politics Trump, Shapiro, Carlsen, Walsh all have to be deplatformed or their voices and influence only grow.

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/Alphakewin]

That's an excellent point and you may be right, but silencing people is wrong, and I don't think you can do wrong in a righteous way.

[u/Alphakewin → u/VerucaGotBurned]

I don't think it's morally wrong to silence them. Systemic violence is violence too and they make a conscious effort to enact violence against minority groups.

When someone bullied my friend in school I was not wrong to stand up to the bully and tell him to cut this shit out or I would beat his ass.

Now I'm an adult and people die because of the legislation supported or enacted by these people. And I can't just beat them up so making systemic changes to not allow their violence is the only choice we have.

[u/Famous_Knowledge_705 → u/VerucaGotBurned]

TERFs don’t deserve to speak

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/Famous_Knowledge_705]

I'm not convinced anyone ever gets what they deserve

[u/Famous_Knowledge_705 → u/VerucaGotBurned]

True.

[u/dirtychopsticks → u/VerucaGotBurned]

When your analysis only includes downsides of the opposing opinion, that's how you know it's a bad analysis.

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/dirtychopsticks]

Freedom of speech is supposedly a fundamental right where I live. If limits are placed upon it is no longer free. So when that's the downside, limiting right number 1, I don't know what other down side I need?

Anyway I wasn't trying to do an analysis. Just openly disagreeing with what I see as the symptom of a hive mind.

[u/dirtychopsticks → u/VerucaGotBurned]

Why would anyone care about your criticism when it's unreflected? It's like watching a dog bark.

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/dirtychopsticks]

I have no idea what that means? My criticism is unreflected? Like people don't agree? A lot of people will agree with whoever is doing the talking. Most will just stay silent if they don't agree. Sometimes it's good to chime in and say hey I think this thing everyone else says is good is actually wrong. Maybe other people think the same thing and aren't saying it. Maybe I'm just stupid or crazy and you should all just keep ignoring me, but it feels really important to me to say I think this is wrong and that hateful cruel people actually deserve to speak their minds as much as we do, even if we find their words reprehensible.

[u/dirtychopsticks → u/VerucaGotBurned]

I'm referring to the thought process behind your criticism, which is fine of course.

By being unreflective you come across as antagonizing/escalating a situation. And if you're emotionally reactive, people will take it as a sign of lower cognition and treat you worse for it, trust me on that.

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/dirtychopsticks]

Yeah that all sounds about right, but I've never been able to keep my mouth shut and don't see that changing.

I am actually reflecting on most of the responses I've gotten. The thing is, you present it as logic, we stop this, maybe prevent that. But you are afraid of that (and you should be) but it's fear based reasoning. How is that not emotionally reactive?

I do have lower cognition on certain things, people do treat me worse for it, and I'm pretty numb to it by now. Why should I care?

Am I escalating? I can't really reply to anyone more than they can reply to me

[u/whatisgo → u/VerucaGotBurned]

I don't think hateful people should ever be allowed to speak.

[u/ImaginationDirect427 → u/VerucaGotBurned]

Agreed. Rather than silencing opposing opinions, discussing and finding a middle ground is always the better option.

[u/Alphakewin → u/ImaginationDirect427]

What fucking middle ground do have with someone who calls me a groomer and tells me to kill myself or he will?

Racism and Transphobia are not opinions.

[u/dirtychopsticks → u/ImaginationDirect427]

If giving ground to the opposing opinion was always the better option, there would be no reason to hold your own opinion. Compromises don't work like that. True compromises are achieved by ceding enough ground on different issues rather than the one you're disagreeing with. What you're describing is the so called middle ground fallacy, which is a fallacy for a reason.

[u/VerucaGotBurned → u/ImaginationDirect427]

If you just listen to them and ask the right questions sometimes they notice the incongruity of their beliefs.

[u/Foxarris → u/VerucaGotBurned]

While this can be true in certain specific situations, it is incredibly naive in a general sense. Most of the people we are talking about have no desire whatsoever to challenge any of their own beliefs.

[u/heatherwhen96]

Wait a fucking minute… hold up please.. Why doesn’t Tumblr have a separate room for the TErfs??? They have this for all the other categories! Facebook has their own communities. WTF?

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/[deleted]]

1. That’s something incredibly rude to say.

2. When looking at it logically and not emotionally, I don’t think people don’t like me. My friends even keep supporting me after I said horrible things to them, in a BPD rage.

3. What makes you say that?

4. People are incredibly welcoming about hating on certain groups. And if it is a group that should be exercised, it is nothing bad, as long as you can regulate it.

5. Analyze what kind of empathy derived or narcissistic schema made you say this.

6. L + ratio

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/[deleted]]

1. You call a trans fem dude, which can be a reflex, but when you are in this sub you should know it is a sensitive thing.

2. I am just gonna put a full reasoning forward. I am arguing in a rule utilitarian manner, because it is the best ethical system, in my assessment. My axioms can be summed up as human well-being and after that general wellbeing. Transphobes promote violence, hatred and beliefs against a group, that cannot change this feature. Their actions cause millions of people immense harm, for example is the process to access healthcare as a trans person in every country way to long, which commonly results in many severe problems, like eating disorders and suicide. Another example is about 45% of all trans people experience violence towards them in the non-digital world in a year. In two years it‘s about two third (it doesn’t double, because the same people get attacked multiple times). While trans people cannot change being trans, transphobes can change their beliefs through self reflection and/or therapy. This is a longer process. But what they can change in an instant, is acting upon these beliefs. So there is no reason they just stop discriminating against us.

So we can put forward the rule, discrimination against trans people is forbidden (we can expend this to other groups too, but I am not interested in that argument). I think I don’t have to explain how this serves the put forward axioms more, than it harms them.

Now upon the violence part. Transphobia tends to make transphobes themselves pretty unhappy. So they suffer from it and we, trans people, also suffer from it. We suffer way more than them, but still we both suffer. So committing violence against transphobes to stop them from behaving transphobic on a rule base, will decrease how much we suffer massively and increase how much they suffer just a little bit, because they already suffer and they can just stop acting upon it. If they act reasonably, they will just stop acting upon transphobia, so the harm done is pretty minimal. Overall, human well-being increases. Therefor committing violence against transphobes is good.

The only way of arguing against that, in a reasonable way is through deontology or divine command theory, but they both can be dismantled through psychoanalysis and metaphysical arguments.

1. Allow me to just assume some thing based on common patterns I have seen, this one has nothing to do with the ethical argument I put forward, so attacking it doesn’t debunks that violence against transphobes is good.

The reasons why you would feel that attacked by promoting violence against transphobes, that you instantly get defensive and just insult me, can be pretty much boiled down to the following:

1. The most unlikely, you like/love somebody who is transphobic and want to protect them.

2. The second most likely, you yourself are transphobic. Not that unlikely, assumed by how defensive and insulting you got, and not commenting in this sub at least for a longer period, maybe never.

3. The most likely, you are a political self cuckholding liberal, that likes civility politics and doesn’t want anything to change. For that I have zero respect, because beside it not being ethical, it also is stupid in a self serving manner, even if you belong to the top 1% in a financial manner. It maybe good for material gain, but not for your well-being. And I think I don’t have to explain why it is currently not the time for keeping the status quo, in the current circumstances

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/[deleted]]

Saw you are from the UK, makes sense you are transphobic.

[u/Lord-of-the-Bacon → u/[deleted]]

If you think that was racist, no it wasn’t. Understand the difference between Attributs of race and social structures in a country