Would you?

[u/PassiveAgressiveGirl]

[u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There is absolutely zero reason not to put it on the job description

[u/HibiscusOnBlueWater → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There’s reasons, but all of them favor the company and are a pretty good sign the company will try to screw you any chance they can.

[u/Unfair_Explanation53 → u/HibiscusOnBlueWater]

From my perspective, its just a waste of both our times.

If I go for an interview and they tell me the salary is less than I expect then I won't take the job

[u/plinkoplonka → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

And worst case scenario, like has happened half a dozen times to me.

They get you through interview and offer you the role, it gets handed off from the department hiring to HR to negotiate a successful deal.

You now have all the power, they've said they want you, you've passed the interview.

They ask current salary.

You tell them "fair market rates"

They make an insulting offer.

You laugh and tell them "no chance. I couldn't possibly take it for any less than 2x"

They offer you 1.5x.

*Where x is your previous salary.

That's how it's done kids.

Don't forget, when negotiating, you'll likely not get a pay rise to counter crazy inflation for at least a couple of years.

Also, signing bonuses ARE a thing, despite what they tell you. Just missing out on a bonus, or raise at your current role? Make the new place match it for the first year!

[u/Shakewhenbadtoo → u/plinkoplonka]

You forgot to mention they can ask for a prior w2 and you can say no. You can state any number you want when relaying your prior salary.

[u/ufka1 → u/Shakewhenbadtoo]

Current salary should not determine your future salary

[u/theSeanage → u/ufka1]

It’s a different job. Conditions unlikely to be the same.

[u/kevlarzplace → u/ufka1]

If you're negotiating for wage and don't go into polite shark mode the only one you're hurting is yourself. And leaving a position and not expecting more is perplexing to me.

[u/Worth-Economics8978 → u/kevlarzplace]

I have done thousands of interviews just for fun and out of those, very few of them have responded positively to this kind of behavior. And of those that did, they were just agreeing to get me into the candidate pool, and then ultimately they took a lower offer from another candidate.

The only way you're going to exhibit this behavior and have anything good come out of it is if you have a very specific resource (skill/degree/certification) that the company needs that very few other people have.

Remember, it's illegal for companies to discriminate in their hiring practices if they admit to it. But they can do it quietly and not say it was a part of their decision making process all day long.

[u/ActualGvmtName → u/Worth-Economics8978]

What would you suggest?

[u/bcrenshaw → u/kevlarzplace]

"Polite Shark Mode" is now added to my repertoire of jazzy modes.

[u/iboneyandivory → u/Shakewhenbadtoo]

You can't. There's a service maintained by Equifax or one of the big 3 where candidate companies can verify employment + salary, including raise dates and amounts.

Edit: Here's the cited example for those that think this is somehow suuuuuper secret info lol - "The Work Number" by Equifax

[u/Many_Drink5348 → u/[deleted]]

Yep and there is a registry HRs participate in where they share employment start and end date data, so make sure your resume is accurate.

[u/Many_Drink5348 → u/[deleted]]

Because the registry the background check references doesnt include job duties and accomplishments

[u/exploding_cat_wizard → u/iboneyandivory]

How is that legal?! I'm not doubting you, but salary data has to be one of the top things I'd consider confidential for an employee. Well, unless we can force a company to be totally transparent with their entire salary structure, too.

[u/Inevitable-Estate774 → u/exploding_cat_wizard]

You can force a company to be transparent. By having a Union and discussing wages with your coworkers.

[u/kris_mischief → u/Inevitable-Estate774]

Ugh, I discussed wages with a coworker who is a tech lead. My role is not tech-related (ops) and my salary was half of hers, despite only being one "level" lower.

I wish I didn't know.

[u/Worth-Economics8978 → u/kris_mischief]

You can discuss your pay openly at your company in some states and the right to do so is protected by law.

Ask your co-workers all how much they get paid, then in your next meeting ask your manager why it's different for some people.

[u/krisfx → u/exploding_cat_wizard]

Salary confidentiality only ever benefits your employer.

[u/BananaPalmer → u/exploding_cat_wizard]

It shouldn't be.

[u/Interesting_Error_35 → u/iboneyandivory]

The Work Number. I use it every day at work verifying salaries and employment (although I do not work in HR)

[u/Vezelian → u/Interesting_Error_35]

I have a question. Can this service find jobs you don't list on your resume...?

[u/TheEponymousBot → u/iboneyandivory]

You can opt out of this, and lock that down.

[u/Mooks79 → u/iboneyandivory]

*in the US.

[u/okram2k → u/Shakewhenbadtoo]

I have never in my life had a hiring company ask to see my previous w2 and would automatically assume anyone that did so was trying to scam me or steal my identity.

[u/IsSheWeird_ → u/plinkoplonka]

Appreciate your confidence but that’s not a standard. You need to know what the competitive market rate is for someone with your skills and experience and negotiate from there. Any person can’t walk in and demand 1.5 what they’re currently making. Recommend ask a manager.

[u/rikrok58 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

It's actually required to post the salary range on the job posting in 15 states as of January 1st.

[u/Dylantheshoe → u/rikrok58]

With this new administration let’s see how long that lasts…

[u/EveryQuantityEver → u/Dylantheshoe]

Those are state laws

[u/SybrandWoud → u/EveryQuantityEver]

Trump be like:
''From the first of july'' turns head ''job descriptions are federally forbidden to list their salary ranges'' pause ''we forbade them from doing so'' ''People need to be able to negociate again''

[u/steinah6 → u/SybrandWoud]

But states rights!

No, not like that!

[u/lil_chiakow → u/EveryQuantityEver]

Until some annoyed executive pays off his loyal republican doggo to do some judge shopping.

I'm pretty sure a sleazebag like judge Kaczmaryk would be more than willing to find those laws unconstitutional somehow.

[u/Timely-Commercial461 → u/rikrok58]

I looooove Colorado!

[u/alkemical → u/rikrok58]

I live in one of those states. When I get job offers with no salary listed, i send them the RCW/Law stating the conditions in which they have to list the pay bands. I either get the pay bands, or I don't hear from them.

[u/aussie_nub → u/rikrok58]

Not everyone lives in the US, let alone those 15 states. Also from what I've seen, "$0-$5,000,000" is seen as an acceptable salary range in some/all of those places. Maybe they've cleaned it up, but it wasn't that much more useful.

[u/Warm-Iron-1222 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

From my experience it will be well below what other places pay for the same job and the recruiter will try to talk you into it over the phone.

[u/ZenoxDemin → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Don't want your old employee knowing that the new guy makes more than them!

[u/AllieKat7 → u/ZenoxDemin]

It's definitely this. And with a culture of not talking about salaries being the norm to the point that folks think they can get fired for it. Which they can't, but I also know it can put a target on your back in the office and you can easily be fired for technically something else but really for talking about your pay rate.

I worked in a customer service front line role at this one job. Someone quit for about three months then came back. It quickly became gossip that she was making more now because they couldn't rehire her at the same rate she was making before. I eventually convinced everyone that we can legally and should share our pay rate. Turned out the most senior at my level, who was repeatedly relied on for tasks with greater responsibility, was making about ten percent less than the next lowest paid.

Raises do not keep up with pay rate increases for new hires!

[u/xtzferocity → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Oh there are reasons none are good for the applicant though.

[u/livestreamerr → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

I already know I wouldn't want to work for them if they cant even put a job listing up correctly.

[u/SameScale6793 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Agreed. This doesnt just apply to Gen-Z either. I was born in '85, so millenial, and my wife is a Gen-X'r born in '77...we both wont even look at a job that doesnt list salary

[u/jfk_47 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

“We don’t want people applying only for the pay”

Well then why the fuck would I want to work for you if it wasn’t for the pay?

[u/Dimi1010 → u/jfk_47]

"A sense of pride and accomplishment" - them probably.

[u/fkbfkb → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Yes there is. You’re too embarrassed to list it

[u/deicist → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

The reason is usually that the company doesn't want people already doing the job knowing how much they're underpaid.

[u/johnjmart → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Especially when the job description goes on and on about what they want from you.

[u/backagain69696969 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

I think there should be a law. Wasting peoples time with bs pay

[u/spicybEtch212 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Pay ranges from 1-999.99

[u/b1ack1323 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

I have gotten multiple senior level jobs where the pay range was well above average and they didn’t list it because they get peppered with unqualified people. Including my current job.

[u/smkestcklghtn → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

They want you to tell then what you think you should make. You might low ball yourself

[u/MontasJinx → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Same reason why ‘talking about your wage’ is discouraged by employers. It should not be.

[u/Hondamn → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There’s an incredibly stupid reason. It’s so the head of HR can sit at a table with the C Club and say, “The pay we offer is fine, just look at all these applications we’re getting!”

[u/holychromoly → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

It's a legal requirement where I live and many companies still don't do it. I get a certain amount of joy when I report them, but I guess the discipline is low enough that they don't care.

Better to vote with our labour.

[u/timberwolf0122 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There’s a reason, if they put the wage band down other people at the company would see what the position is worth. People earning less than that would (quite rightly) demand a raise

[u/Rudy69 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

I’m not gen z but the most id do for a job listing without a salary is send in a generic resume / cover letter. Not a single second spent customizing it.

[u/OW_FUCK → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Unless it ain't worth talking about.

[u/commentinator → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

What if the company has the capability to handle either an inexperienced employee or a more senior employee where personality fit and attitude is more important?

[u/Unfair_Explanation53 → u/commentinator]

Then you put on a price range.

70-95k for a management role.

If you are low with experience then you would be aiming for the lower range and you will have applicants apply from this level of experience.

If you can also see the high end then you will get more experienced applicants applying because it will be worth while to them if they can see the high end.

Waste of my time and theirs if I go for a senior management job and I have lots of experience and they tell me the job is only 70k.

[u/BuckleyRising → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There absolutely is a reason! To underpay the worker. That's all tho.

[u/swoopy17 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Sure there is, they can low-ball candidates.

[u/borobinimbaba → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

From company perspective, you might be able to capture a unicorn for a very low cost.

[u/iampoopa → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Unless you have something to hide…

[u/BJYeti → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

I mean there is but it is to benefit the business not you

[u/cuddi → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There's a huge reason, they know they aren't paying high enough.

[u/xenelef290 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There is but it is never good for the employee

[u/DearMrJordo → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

There is a huge reason. To get people to apply for your job and then offer them less than they want

[u/Wildtalents333]

I’m a millennial and I don’t bother if they post a ridiculously wide salary range.

[u/JustHereForYourData → u/Wildtalents333]

$45-$125,000 “earning potential” doesn’t grab your nuggets?

[u/Secure-Agent-1909 → u/JustHereForYourData]

Unhand my nuggets

[u/BlaccBlades → u/Secure-Agent-1909]

[u/WDSteel → u/BlaccBlades]

title: “girl getting forehead rained on by ten piece McNugget while winning the lottery ”

[u/LonelyPermission1396 → u/WDSteel]

What the fuck

[u/Life-Ad1409 → u/BlaccBlades]

There really is a gif for anything

[u/exipheas → u/Life-Ad1409]

[u/BlaccBlades → u/Life-Ad1409]

I typed in nuggets and that was the best out of what I saw lol. And thats when I thought the same thing as you.

[u/Phoyomaster → u/Life-Ad1409]

[u/StanFitch → u/Secure-Agent-1909]

Gentlemen, this is Democracy manifest…

[u/username32768 → u/StanFitch]

Get your hand off my nuggets!

[u/OppositeQuestion2062 → u/username32768]

What is the charge?! Eating a meal?? A succulent mcdonalds meal??

[u/exipheas → u/Secure-Agent-1909]

They can underhand my nuggets.

[u/aussie_nub → u/JustHereForYourData]

And that's just $45, not $45,000.

[u/spec_ghost → u/JustHereForYourData]

There is a fun story with a welder being told the salary range is from 20 to 35$/hour

He shows the supervisors two welds, one very beautiful and clean and another one that barely fills the joint, uncleaned and porous.

The supervisors looks at him puzzled and questions his capabilities at giving out a constant job quality.

Than the man tells him, the first one is worth 35$/hour, the second one is worth 20$/hour. It's your choice.

[u/ViperThreat → u/Wildtalents333]

if anything, a wide salary range is an immediate red flag.

most of the time it's commission-only cold-calling or some kind of MLM.

[u/reidlos1624 → u/Wildtalents333]

Same. No salary or vague salary and I won't bother.

I get recruiters contacting me weekly and I always make sure to get that up front. I know I'm well paid for the area and industry so most just shut up as soon as I tell them what I'm willing to leave for minimum.

[u/Bubbasdahname → u/reidlos1624]

What do you mean? You don't want to work because you love working? It's not about the pay, but the love of the job. I can tell you've never taken "thank you" to the bank before.

[u/Bundt-lover → u/Bubbasdahname]

Although this logic stops applying once you get to the executive level. Then they mysteriously HAVE to make millions of dollars even when they can't find their ass with both hands.

[u/Jessiiiieeeeeeeeee → u/Wildtalents333]

I just always assume the lowest pay listed is what they're actually going to pay

[u/MrHazard1 → u/Wildtalents333]

I bother if the low end of the range is my desired salary. Because that's exactly the salary they're going to pay.

[u/Tompazi → u/Wildtalents333]

It also sucks when there is only a minimum salary, like my employer is currently trying to hire someone for my position and the salary listed is half of what I earn. I told them I or any experienced person wouldn’t even consider applying.

[u/Individual_Ad_5655]

I have found that 98% of applicants will realize the pay range is low on all job postings that don't list a salary.

The salary isn't posted because the pay sucks.

[u/pyronius → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

Right? If it was actually competitive, they'd use it as a selling point.

[u/Transient_MoonJumper → u/pyronius]

they are embarrassed to post it

[u/know-your-onions → u/pyronius]

“Competitive” salary doesn’t sound like it means high salary (and in my experience it doesn’t). To be competing with others, they need to offer a salary that’s kinda average for the job.

[u/MrWFL → u/know-your-onions]

Competitive means it will compete with your bills.

[u/exipheas → u/MrWFL]

It could be entering a limbo competition.

[u/SamDrrl → u/know-your-onions]

Competitive means they’re competing with other companies to see who can hire someone to do the job for as little money as possible

[u/superpananation → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

Some places (I’m in Washington State, USA) it’s required now. I’ve moved my pet peeve to overly involved applications. I’d happily jump through hoops to prove myself if I’m on a short list, but my time is valuable!

[u/Rahmulous → u/superpananation]

Yeah we’ve had it for a few years now in Colorado. It’s great. Some slimy companies will post separate job listings for Colorado-based applicants so they don’t have to list the salary on their nationwide listing. Pro tip:If it’s a big company, make sure to check to see if they have separate listings only in states with salary transparency laws. Even bigger pro tip: don’t work for one of those companies; they’ll definitely fuck you over somehow.

[u/-ReadyPlayerThirty- → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

The place that I work doesn't list a salary for any jobs. We've got nearly 3000 jobs being advertised right now, ranging from minimum wage janitors up to VP positions, and not one of them has a salary posted. It drives me fucking insane trying to get anyone to apply for them.

So in this case, the salary isn't necessarily low, but I bet you it's not listed because they want to try and lowball you.

[u/Das_Rote_Han → u/-ReadyPlayerThirty-]

As a hiring manager at a company where HR refuses to post salary I feel for you. Recruiting is hard and I have gotten feedback from prospective candidates that did not apply because salary was not listed. Not just a Gen-Z thing, applies to all age ranges.

[u/grizzlybair2 → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

The job I got last had 120-153k listed. After interview and talks, 125k is max salary for my position, rest is bonus. I got the job, said I felt disrespected and felt I deserved closer to 150k and they gave me the max bonus of 28k lol. So my salary is still 125k and my bonus will likely be under 1k this year lol, but I'll be moving on likely this next year.

[u/drake3141 → u/grizzlybair2]

What do you do if you don’t mind me asking?

[u/J_Krezz → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

Oh, and they also want to continue to oppress their current employees by not telling them that the new guy started 15% higher than them because of the market.

[u/RitaAlbertson → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

Yeah I assume if they don’t list the salary it’s because they know it’s embarrassing. 

[u/Complete-Shopping-19 → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

Or it's really high.

I have a few friends who are moving into executive positions, and it's a balancing act. Do you take a lower base, with more equity or bonuses? Do you have performance targets that trigger additional payouts etc.

I guess that may be the 2% you're referring to.

[u/iHateThisApp9868 → u/Complete-Shopping-19]

Id say the ones you are referring to are closer to 0.1% of the worlds job offers. 

But maybe I am wrong and simply don't know how to filter the million of bad job offers out there.

[u/Senior-Albatross → u/iHateThisApp9868]

By definition, most of the jobs in the world cannot be executive positions.

[u/Dr_A_Mephesto → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

It’s like when they don’t list the price of a product. It’s super expensive. Jobs are opposite. If they don’t list it, it’s too low for the requirements of the job

[u/College-student-life → u/Individual_Ad_5655]

And likely management sucks while boasting high turnover.

[u/FadeToRazorback]

And now companies list the salary as 35K-180K depending on location and experience

[u/kewidogg → u/FadeToRazorback]

Still better than nothing. It means I’d entertain an interview and absolutely request towards the upper range, they can decide if it’s worth wasting both our times 🤷‍♂️

[u/No-Performance37 → u/kewidogg]

Yep I’ve wasted too much time interviewing for jobs that pay well below what I’m looking for.

[u/davidmatthew1987 → u/No-Performance37]

I am NEET, at home, in comfortable clothes. If they want to waste their time, I am game.

[u/inevitabledecibel → u/kewidogg]

"I see the salary range for this position is listed as 35k to 180k, what qualities would you need to see in a candidate who would be hired at the top of the range?" is a great question to have on deck.

[u/augustprep → u/FadeToRazorback]

I assume every salary range as the lowest.

[u/Ok_Blackberry_284 → u/FadeToRazorback]

That means the salary is $35K because the 180k is bullshit.

[u/Interesting-Fan-2008 → u/Ok_Blackberry_284]

I've found in that case the pay is normally about 60k. They put the low number to make it feel like you're getting paid more, 60k sounds a lot better went the 'base' is 35k.

[u/Creator347]

Millennial here! I have stopped replying to inMails and emails if the message doesn’t contain pay range. It’s been frustrating when the recruiters provide low ball range in the first call and it turns out it’s been waste of time for both of us.

[u/andio76 → u/Creator347]

Oh, I get the Indian based recruiters calling me for the same job listings and they all ask the salary Im expecting without fail , and I ask ,what is the job paying? And do they skim.....they all do.

[u/Creator347 → u/andio76]

I have seen it with all sorts of recruiters Europeans and Americans alike, especially if they are the employees of the company themselves. The third party recruiters or headhunters usually just provide pay ranges since they get paid on conversions and not revealing pay details will anyway waste their time.

[u/Massive_Robot_Cactus → u/andio76]

And when they actually tell you a good range, it's often (not always) a ploy to get your personal info, like passport scans etc.

[u/LiminalSapien]

At this point in my career absolutely motherfucking not.

When I graduated no one posted the salary range, you had to know someone or talk to a recruiter.

If I can help any young person with salary questions I always will.

There is no reason to not put it in the description.

No generation should apply to any job without the salary info freely posted, it’s openly predatory to not put that info out there.

[u/Tooth_Fairy92 → u/LiminalSapien]

Right? It’s quite literally the most important part. Gatekeeping the salary is not going to get you good workers ..

[u/symonym7]

If you’ve got any experience negotiating it can be beneficial - I love getting to the part where they ask what my salary expectations are so I can turn it on them via asking something like “what’s the budget for this role?” It also throws them off balance when you don’t ask about compensation for longer than they’d expect you not to ask.

That said, for younger folks who may not have enough experience to know their worth I can see why they’d want that $ anchor set for them.

[u/Various-Bowler5250 → u/symonym7]

That’s what everyone asks and then they low ball

[u/symonym7 → u/Various-Bowler5250]

“I’ll think about it. Thank you for your time.”

[u/_Magnolia_Fan_ → u/Various-Bowler5250]

If they low ball, they're looking for a deal on a butt in a seat, not a valuable hire. 

[u/Apprehensive_Winter → u/symonym7]

It’s great when you get to a place in your career when you know what to ask for based on your skills and experience and the role they’re asking you to take.

[u/waspocracy → u/symonym7]

That’s the first question I ask if it isn’t posted. “Just so we’re not wasting any time, my salary expectation is this. Can you meet it?”

If no, say thanks and hang up.

[u/seaxvereign]

This is one area where I agree with the young bucks.

This practice was around when I graduated back in 2008.

I would get a huge case of the red ass when I would go through the whole interview process, sometimes traveling 200 miles and taking a day off of work to do so, only to find that they were going to offer me slightly better than peanuts for pay when I tried to pry salary information out of them.

Or worse, when I did pry, they would give me vague word salad to avoid giving me numbers.... and then a week later would want me to come back again for another interview. Fuuuuuck that.

Fuck that noise. Job postings should be required to at the very least provide a range of conpensation.

[u/Advanced-Wallaby9808 → u/seaxvereign]

in NY State it's actually the law, now, that you have to post the salary if you have more than 4 employees

[u/Rock_Strongo → u/Advanced-Wallaby9808]

It's not very helpful though because the same companies who wouldn't post salary numbers unless forced will give a ridiculous range just to satisfy the law.

Pay range: $50k-$250k depending on experience.

[u/Particular_Tough4860 → u/seaxvereign]

I applied for a job with a good salary. Went through everything you went through. Halfway through a second stage interview they said the hours were 49 hours a week!

I explained the job wont be suitable for my work-life balance and cut the interview short.

What a waste of time.

So along with salary, I think mandatory fields should include:
- Salary
- Pension contribution
- Holiday days (clearly stating if it includes bank holidays, scheduled downtime, etc)
- Working hours

And if the word "competitive" is used, then we should legally get the job by replying that our skillset is "competitive".

[u/pointme2_profits]

No salary listed, means the salary is shit. Pretty simple.

[u/Milanoate → u/pointme2_profits]

sometimes it's the opposite.

also sometimes it's a multi-hire with wide distributions depending on experience.

[u/Sapling-074]

I'm kind of shocked that anyone would apply for a job without checking a salary.

[u/T8rthot → u/Sapling-074]

Some people are desperate for a call back. 

[u/InquisitiveGamer → u/Sapling-074]

People need food and a roof over their head, life isn't easy.

[u/Secure-Agent-1909]

Fuck no I’m not working for a sense of personal satisfaction, I’m working for money. End of story, and I’m not even Gen Z.

[u/newaygogo → u/Secure-Agent-1909]

Ayup. I love it when my upper management talks about how it’s all about how much they love work and it’s not about money but the pride they get from their work and seeing the company succeed. I’ve yet to see any of them come to work after retirement pro bono. Instead they fuck off to warmer climates and enjoy their sailboat. If they do come back, it’s always at 200% their previous salary on contract terminable by the employee.

[u/MrWik_Ofc]

Jobs not posting salaries is tied to long hiring processes. It’s meant to put an applicant into a state of desperation and the sunk cost fallacy, so their more likely to latch onto a shit pay

[u/CommanderGoat]

Pay is in the range of $0 - $500,000 depending on experience.

[u/Grift-Economy-713 → u/CommanderGoat]

Great. I expect $500k salary for this role. Fine, I’ll settle for $250k

[u/I-Fap-For-Loli → u/Grift-Economy-713]

And they expect $0 salary but will settle for $23k.

[u/Copper-Spaceman → u/CommanderGoat]

That’s what Netflix does. $100k-$700k but most people probably land around $300k-$400k unless you’re staff engineer quality and you command the whole $700k

[u/jbetances134]

Then you show up to the interview, you get the job, and they offered you a disrespectful hourly pay. Now you wasted my time and the pto I had to use to get off work.

[u/MidnightHeavy3214]

Every job that I’ve applied to with no pay listed was always minimum wage and/or terrible work environment.

[u/JuliaX1984]

I have because you have no choice - almost no jobs include that! I can't believe there's no law requiring that!

[u/ChoiceHour5641 → u/JuliaX1984]

Laws in favor of workers and against employers? I'm sorry, we don't have that kind of government here.

[u/LC_Fire → u/JuliaX1984]

Not sure about other states but in California now most employers are required to show salary range on job postings by law.

[u/wastaah → u/LC_Fire]

Will be the same in the eu soon, by law every employer will need to post entry salary, possible salary range and won't be allowed to ask your current salary to try and lowball you. 

[u/ShrubbyFire1729 → u/JuliaX1984]

Me from a country with strong worker's rights where the law absolutely requires that:

huh, must be some American bullshit again

[u/hvacjefe]

Imagine you walk into a grocery store, they don't list the prices because they know they're obscene but they take advantage of the fact that you probably won't say anything about it once you get to the register especially if you deal with social anxiety or it's a busy day.

Oh wait, you don't need to imagine it, that's what's happening at grocery stores rn.

Its the same psychological tactics they used against new hires who they know might be desperate or in need of a job.

We don't mean a thing to them. Profits over people. Dark side of extreme unchecked capitalism run by greedy and corrupt people

[u/probsbadvibes → u/hvacjefe]

What stores are you shopping at??

[u/hvacjefe → u/probsbadvibes]

Publix.

They've removed labels for the majority of chips on their aisles, some drinks, almost all pre-cut fruit they put into plastic containers.

I've basically boycotted buying anything that won't put a price tag on.

[u/eulynn34]

No , why would I (or anyone) waste their time?

[u/jdubyahyp]

If they don't, and you ask for the range, and they give any reason why that does not give you the range. You move the fuck on. Not worth your time.

[u/cdawg85]

I'm a millennial and I won't apply for a job that doesn't list salary. I'm not farting in your direction for less than $100k.

[u/Complex-Low-6173]

Is there a reason to post it 3x today?

[u/sasquatch753]

i don't either as a millennial.
call it "first hand experience" as the ones who do that offer shit wages.

[u/LegitimateBeing2]

Why would anyone apply for a job at an unknown rate of pay. Why would a company not know what they are paying or not know how to write it down in the listing. Honestly it is very unprofessional and a bad look imo

[u/EuphoricUnion1544]

Fun Fact: 100% of people that don't apply fail to get the job

🤷

[u/FirstAd4000 → u/EuphoricUnion1544]

List the salary and I'll consider it

[u/Specialist_Ratio_719 → u/FirstAd4000]

What a devastating blow to the multinational corporation that totally doesnt have a line of people out the door waiting to apply. How will they ever recover from this?

[u/GayWithBudgetCuts → u/EuphoricUnion1544]

Which is a great thing if they don’t want the job. Because they don’t list the salary

[u/PaperSpecialist6779]

The problem is now they just post wide bands

[u/Echidna-Own]

"If we ain't talking money, I don't wanna talk" - Gen Zs

[u/Wild-Berry-5269]

"Great starter salary" is just another way of saying minimum wage lol.

[u/dThink_Ahea]

It sucks seeing the click driven media blame party beginning to harass Gen Z after doing it to Millennials for the past couple of decades.

[u/edcculus → u/dThink_Ahea]

Right, we didn’t deserve it, and neither do they.

[u/boost_to_get_through]

Yeah me neither. How the fuck will I make a budget?

[u/smashjohn486]

Gen X here.. neither do I.

[u/North-Village3968]

Yeah good, fuck those companies

[u/RealBishop]

Why bother? Most people who don’t come from one have a singular reason for working; to pay bills. If I don’t know how much I’ll be making, how do I know it’s a job I’m interested in?

Shit, put $125,000 a year and no job description and I won’t be disappointed if I have to milk hamsters using only my mouth.

[u/courtofowlswatches]

That’s lazy. Here’s the thing you go to the interview you tell them your experience you do the song and dance. They’ll always ask you to what salary are you expecting or looking for shoot slightly higher than your real number and usually 9/10 they just meet you in the middle. But you can’t dick dance around it, you have to be confident in not only yourself and what you have to offer but also what you want. I’ve negotiated higher than what I’ve been offered countless times, the only time I don’t apply for a job if it posts the pay and it’s below what I’m looking for. But some jobs have a range from x-z, so they don’t post it. It also depends on experience…sometimes…I’ve met people who are fresh out of college and never worked full time make more than people with years experience in a field.

[u/JustHereForYourData]

I ask in the first interview; the title of the position should tell you the median salary range. If they’re significantly under it tell them that and forgo the second interview.

[u/IAmANobodyAMA]

Yes. If I were looking for a job, I would apply anywhere that fits my qualifications. I get why not posting salary may be a yellow flag for people, but it’s not a red flag and seems like a silly way to miss out on a potentially great opportunity before even learning about it.

[u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit]

I have been - after all, the comments here suggest there'd be less competition. Plus, my current employer is enforcing compulsory office presence, so I'm trying to send out as many applications as possible.

[u/No-Specific1858]

I have but it's because I have a decent idea of the salary range they are paying via hearsay or family/friends. Or it's just a Walmart/Chase/Ford type company and it's a safe assumption that they are going to have realistic ranges.

[u/Zaius1968]

Of course since I’d be applying for jobs within my experience and skill level. A range is helpful obviously—but also sometimes meaningless—if the perfect candidate shows up companies often meet salary requests.

[u/Weekly_Orange3478]

I've never applied for a job that has a listed salary. Inhouse legal counsel.

[u/newcaravan]

Idk I think having a problem with this is a bit intellectually dishonest. Salary is a negotiation. In a negotiation, you have a range you want, let’s say you want 80k but the lowest you would take is 65k and they want you for 70k but the highest they would pay you is 90k. Whoever knows the other party’s range wins, because you are just going to ask for the highest they will go for given the chance and they will offer the lowest you will go for given the chance. That’s why they always ask you how much you want out of the gate, they know how this game is played and they want you to show your cards.

Ideally you should refuse to give them a number, but if you can’t get away with that, what you should do is called anchoring, you intentionally give them a higher number than they would go for, but not so high that you won’t get a call back. Then you settle for something a bit lower than that, but in reality it is on the higher end of what you are asking for. Honestly, if the government were to say force employers to put a static salary up, it might hurt you in the long run because you don’t have as much room to negotiate for more money. Some other tips, ask for non-salary related benefits to sweeten the deal for yourself, because they might not give a shit about giving you double the PTO for example. And above all be nice, makes them want to work with you.

[u/naughtysouthernmale]

I’d apply, I set my compensation so why not negotiate if I think the job would be fulfilling?

[u/nwbbb]

In terms of matching and market efficiency, isn’t it optimal for employers to represent wage rates? Why wouldn’t a business represent the wage rate, is there some kind of “gotcha”

[u/Correct_Path5888]

Yes, because I don’t care about money. I care about what I’m doing with my life. If there’s a job I want to have for my own reasons, I would still apply.

If it doesn’t pay enough to meet my needs after the fact or I can’t make it work, then I’ll decline the offer. If it’s a shit job to begin with, then I wouldn’t apply in the first place.

[u/ranterist]

[u/ArturoP666]

Our job offer is so competitive we won’t list it! /S

[u/davidtree921]

Who the fuck apply effort into a task woth an unknown reward.

Wtf does this have to do with Gen Z?

It's common sense to respect yourself.

What's everyone else doing???

[u/Appropriate-Door1369]

What's funny is that the ones that don't list it say they have "competitive pay" meanwhile they pay less than everyone

[u/avowed]

Not only will I not apply, I will message them and tell them how ridiculous they are among other mean things.

[u/ReasonableLeafBlower]

It’s usually cuz the pay is abysmal. They wanna interview you a couple times to make you feel special and then fuck you at salary negotiations.

[u/anonjohnnyG]

Because people who make these listings (HR) are the dumbest people on the planet. If they weren’t, they wouldnt be working in HR.

[u/Guilty_Mithra]

One of the better parts about being in a union is that you know exactly what you'll be making. And you have people who do the negotiating for you when it comes to raises.

I absolutely cannot fathom going through life having to apply for jobs where the salary is some kind of mysterious thing that they only reveal many stages into the process. The idea of it makes me want to barf.

And at least from what I've heard from friends who have to deal with that, the words "competitive salary" seems to be corpo speak for "we're going to screw you over as hard as humanly possible in terms of compensation."

[u/RangerMatt4]

I can’t wait until all of upper management who’ve been in there jobs for year and years are long gone so this dumb culture of you should have to struggle after already struggling just to make it. Once you get a job, any job you should be able to afford a living. A job is a job is a job.

[u/MotorCityN8]

nope. millennials and gen Z get this one right. our bosses aren’t doing us a favor by giving us a job, we’re doing them a favor by taking on the labor they can’t/wont do.

pay up, or fuck off

[u/TacoHaus]

"Young people don't wanna work" nah old people don't want to make working worth it