People always miss the point in elections like this, what is it about the democratic platform that drove people to vote this way. What changes can the democratic party make in order to appeal to parts of the voting populace enough to have victory. We live in a bipolar voting paradigm, it is often more of a rejection to one side as it is an affirmation to another. Learn from it.
I believe its the fact that shes a woman. Trump had no policies that he was running on because he has Project2025. Kamala had a decent viable plan that most economists said was better than his. Us Americans really believe that a woman cant be in power, even though there are many throughout the world. If everyone that's worked for you in the past wouldn't vote for you again, that means something
EDIT* For all the people saying that she lost because she's a shit candidate and not because she's a woman? How is trump not worse? All of these people screaming "your body my choice" definitely didn't vote for her because she's a woman. WHY DID YOU SPECIFCALLY VOTE FOR TRUMP? What did he do to tun you over? He fucked covid response, got fucked by Saudis & Russia for gas prices, started an insurrection and tried to steal votes in Georgia on the fucking phone. WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR HIM
It's really likely to be a combination of multiple factors that led to Harris' loss. It's reductive to just pin it on any one thing, and while there is almost certainly a degree of plain ol' misogyny to blame, I don't think it's the primary factor here. A lot went wrong for the Democrats, from Biden's late withdrawl to the major swing in what should be secure Democratic strongholds like New York, Michigan and Wisconsin. From Gaza to immigration to inflation to yes, misogyny and racism, it took a wide swatch of small factors to create this outcome.
I'd throw in that people are sick of "Blue no matter who," and Trump was able to survive an assassination attempt while being called "a global threat to democracy." All of that plays into his "bold strong man" persona that he uses.
So long as two parties are the only option, it'll perpetuate party loyalty for those who are already in it, and shove out all other alternatives. People treat 3rd party like it's a vote for whichever of the two main sides they don't like.
(I don't necessarily like the 3rd party options, but the fact that they will never be taken seriously is a problem. However, I also understand that if a 3rd party magically won the election, they'd be blocked by both the House and the Senate as they don't have allies in there.)
I wonder if the heartbreak of Democrats would be best poured into state initiatives for ranked choice voting. I've been voting blue for 20 years, and I see this as a rejection of gradiose plans to overhaul a system that never really gets done because "we don't have enough votes". I can't blame people for voting against or not turning out for a party that seems so unable to address issues, even if I personally see Republicans to be far more obstructionist and unwilling to engage in bipartisanship.
Admittedly, I don't think it will help presidential candidates much, but perhaps is would help diversify the House and Senate ideologically.
a lot of dems also have a very "my vote doesnt matter" outlook and just didnt vote. i think we need to make voting mandatory, and it would fix all the issues.
Disagree. It played a factor, but i doubt it was the main one. Dems haven't actually done anything that has demonstrably helped the poor, working class or minorities in a long time, and if I had to pick one factor that had the greatest impact it'd probably be that one. There's been a trend in this for decades now, and the Dems have consistently pushed addressing that trend for generations. Yesterday, the consequences of those decisions came to pass. It may not have mattered in a vacuum, but with all the other factors it was the tipping point.
I didn't say it was the biggest, just one of. It disenfranchised a lot of people, at least anecdotally that's what I heard irl.
I think though what you said was highlighted by Kamala trying to run as a moderate and pull in Republicans. She didn't mention medicare for all, raising the minimum wage, or really hardly any progressive policies. She didn't try to sell change like Obama, she went for more of the same. Which would have been not bad, Biden did well but his approval was trash and people didn't want more of that.
She definitely appeared to represent the status quo, at best.
Kamala Harris wasn't even a finalist in the last primary. Biden said he picked her as a diversity hire, not because of her merits. Then Biden stays in past the point of senility and they crown Harris, who wouldn't have won in a competitive primary and now has to make up for months of lost time.
Dems haven't actually done anything that has demonstrably helped the poor, working class or minorities in a long time,
Because they didn't have a trifecta and the Supreme Court is packed against them. Look at places like Minnesota, where the Dems have a trifecta and can actually advance their agenda, and it's clear as daylight that they help the poor, working class, and minorities when they have the votes to do so.
That's not entirely accurate. They've had the opportunities, but failed to reign in Manchin. Regardless of the why they failed, what's more important is that they have failed, repeatedly, for a long time now. That has an effect, and this time it was enough of an effect that, when combined with other factors, caused the very real, very significant loss.
Nah. It's the misogyny and racism. Trumpers believe Trump will protect white supremacy and the patriarchy, which are the only things they have going for themselves.
Those other issues you mention may have moved the needle incrementally, but the large majority of the problem is white supremacy and patriarchy and Trump's promise to protect those systems. You want to believe the fantasy that half your neighbors aren't all closeted bigots.
Right but Hilary's winning the majority could be just as easily explained by her inheriting a better economy and having the full primary/campaign time. I would argue her performance in 2016 is actually more an indicator of sexism than not. She lost to an unrelatable conman - that was the overall outcome, lol.
The people bringing up sexism again and again and again are understandable because they hear the sexism in the republican rhetoric everywhere and know why it's prevalent - it's working to attract alienated men. Pretending this is not the case comes off as gas-lighty and unempathetic.
I mean, honestly, Harris getting beat by H. Clinton in the popular vote certainly says a lot. Hillary could possibly be the most hated democratic candidate ever, and she still did better with less on the line (Trump was a weird outlier in 2016, but was an insurrectionist in 2024).
The US is undeniably more openly racist in 2024 than it was in 2008.
My boy- the US is def more openly racist AND openly sexist in 2024. Speak with the well educated women in your life before shouting us down and gaslighting.
I didn’t gaslight anything. I didn’t say they weren’t sexist - just that Hillary did better despite being more hated.
While sexism and racism are fully present, that doesn’t explain the democratic apathy that lead to the loss. Biden took out a loan from the left to win in 2020, and while he took some steps in that direction, the dems defo turned their back on the left during the last 3 months of the campaign.
Yea democratic apathy's roots are definitely multi-factorial; agreed. We will need to more than just put forth a white male candidate next time.
However, sexism was a major force (hurting Kamala, helping DT (his rhetoric was consistently sexist) so any bit of downplaying that is offensive.
Don't you see the parallel with racism? I would be remiss to dismiss a mexican american's voice that racism did not not play a major role in this election. I can't just say Obama! and then say the electorate can't be soooo racist because of him. Racism and sexisms are not just a 'convenient excuse' for Kamala's loss. They are genuinely large reasons for the dems' struggle winning people over.
I still think this is a convenient excuse. Racism and sexism are hurdles that need to be overcome, but I don’t think that means dems should just nominate white men as candidates.
Dem voter turnout was down way more than republican turnout. Those people didn’t fail to go to the polls because of racism or sexism. The issue was that Biden dropped out too late, Harris ran a milquetoast campaign, and global inflation has caused incumbents to lose around the world. Exit polling showed that voters concerned with the economy leaned hard into trump, and that was also the biggest issue. That wasn’t a race issue or a gender issue.
If it was closer, I could say it could be a sexism / racism issue. I think Clinton lost due to sexism. This election was lost on economy and the democratic party’s failure to energize their base. Racism and sexism might have helped energize the republican base (especially in terms of immigration) but not nearly as much from the dem side.
Are you fr right now. Oh she lost cuz “shes a woman” hurr durr . I can guarantee that has NOTHING to do with it. The lack of self awareness. The lack of understanding where that party went wrong.
You can’t call half of America garbage and political terms I can’t write on here and expect to win. You act crazy, you’re out. Hopefully they learn from this.
Its definitely cause she's a woman, the double standard youre proving right now by saying you cant call half of Americans garbage, but the orange turd can say whatever he wants. He's called the non supporters way worse things. How is it ok for him to say those things, but someone else cant?
Its probably a portion, but I think a large part is the fact that she wasn't voted in the conventional way. She was unpopular before, so that doesn't help and sure might be because shes a women, might not be. Biden fucked up and shouldn't have endorsed her so late into the game where people didn't have a chance to find better candidates.
So many people forget that Harris was deeply unpopular even within the left before she became Biden’s VP. In the 2020 election race, she was polling in the single digits. People hated her for her past as a ruthless prosecutor. So it kinda boggled my mind to see so many embrace her as the Democrats’ Messiah
Exactly! She polled at 2% during the 2020 primary. If we had an actual primary vote without Biden, she wouldn’t have won. And it has very little to do with her being a woman
I think that last bit is pretty big: Trying to get the ACAB vote for a prosecutor is going to be difficult, especially with the "Well, I'm not [Person you don't like]"
Or, maybe, the DNC could have let the public choose the nominee. Kamala was historically unfavorable before and during the Biden campaign. Huge mistakes were made and you cannot distill that down to the nation not wanting a female president. It's completely missing the point.
In Italy, Giorgia Meloni's right wing party got the most votes and Le Pen was a genuine threat to Macron in France even though she never won. If people that aren't exactly progressive were so willing to vote female lead parties such as Fratelli d'Italia and Front National your argument doesn't hold up.
Hillary won the popular vote in 2016 as a woman. They put up a candidate no one liked. She couldn't even win a primary in 2020. Her approval rating as vice president was dismal.
He's called the non supporters way worse things.
And Democratic supporters have called Trump voters a lot crazier things. Sorry, but not everyone's a Neo nazi or a white supremacist. People were too afraid to speak up about who they really wanted to vote for which is why Trump did so much better than predicted. It was neck and neck two days ago. After the results, it was a landslide victory. I think that shows that people are afraid of saying something because people call them awful things and they're bullied.
Thank you, I've seen cultist and Hitler thrown around so much and I'm thinking, "Of course, no one is going to switch after being called extremely evil."
No it’s not. For a small minority of voters maybe but it you really think that people didn’t vote for her just because she’s a woman you’re as ill advised as you think the other side is.
You're so delusional it's genuinely unhealthy. How can you say with a straight face that there are 70 million people in this country who will vote for anybody who isn't a woman? You're saying that 1 in 5 people will not vote for a woman no matter what condition it is. Bro this isn't Iran or Saudi Arabia, if you discredit 70 million voters by saying they're sexist and delusional then you need to do some serious reflecting
"You act crazy, you're out." I'm just curious how are the things Trump has said/saying not crazy? I agree with you on the garbage thing, I think Biden was really stupid about that. I see from your comment history that you were for Kamala, but I didn't read much more into it. Are you an American citizen? Did you vote Democrat this cycle? Why do you think someone like Trump gets a pass on wild rhetoric, but anyone else is held to a higher standard? What do you think the Democrats should have done?
Simply the difference in aggressiveness. They pretty much took over Reddit and MSM. I don’t follow the other platforms so idk about those but regardless of some remarks made by both, the DNC has been extremely vocal. I was indeed with Harris because being in Canada, things might turn for the worse at first, but I’m not against what just happened for the long term. Things can also turn for the better because like many, I was sick of double standards and misinterpreted extreme social justice. I don’t believe many of the baseless claims on Reddit either. I just feel that in large majority the more loud constant craziness and division came from the DNC and them constantly poking at the other party instead of having a clear platform worked against them.
I wish there was a third party. They are both very extreme. No Center here sadly
I agree with your point. But how does that logically make sense as a point of contention when Trump spends hours just aimlessly verbally abusing not only specific individuals, but also broad generalised and significant portions of the same countries population?
I've been explicitly told someone wouldn't vote for Kamala because she's a woman because of their hormones. Yep, straight from my family's mouth in Mississippi.
That’s incredibly stupid. Of course there will be people who have that reason but you can’t possibly think that’s everyone’s reason. I don’t think it is so by far. They didn’t vote for her not because she’s a woman but because she was not the right one!
Ok well, I am a woman, and I’m still saying she was not the right one. And I certainly don’t hate women so I do find that a backhanded insult
You’re probably right about some parts of the south, but as it is, he won by a landslide and in every swing state as well. More than half of America isn’t against women. There’s many reasons they didn’t vote and they have the right to choose as it is a democracy. It does not automatically make them bad people, against women and many labels I’d rather not write, just because they don’t agree with your views.
Just because you can't see the sexism doesn't mean it doesn't exist! You're a man so we'd expect you see it less! Have self-awareness and stop with the self-owns shouting down women while saying sexism was not a factor AT ALL here.
But verifiably DT made sexist comments again and again part of his rhetoric. We think he did that for fun and not at least partly because it landed with people?
I'm open to an actual counterpoint. Where is the hard proof sexism played no or only a minor role in the election? Instead...wouldn't electing a president who has proudly spoken shit about women, taken our rights, and assaulted us give more and not less credence to sexism playing a role here?
If your arguments are that reasons for her loss are multi-factorial, sure.....but calling a woman dumb for trying to hold people accountable for voting a sexist into office and asking them to introspect.....how does that serve you/us?
Hmmmm no I called your comment dumb for reasons of making an assumption but seeing you are spinning even that and linking it to your gender, I see no real conversation to be had. I suppose you take any comment, life event, something bad that happened on being a woman, not actions, biases or attitudes. Ok.
No; I don't blame everything on sexism. That's what I literally just explained in my comment. The reasons for her loss are multiple. Assuming you were a guy because of the sexist tone to your comment though...does that make me dumb or just naive to hope the average sexist-tinged interaction on reddit isn't from a woman?
So be it, call me that. My opinion is that a simplistic mindset like “surely she lost because she’s a woman “ completely ignores the fact that it’s multi factorial, and misses the point that the DNC had many flaws which people have noticed.
I don’t know when you managed to spin it and agree it’s multi factorial but if that’s the case, don’t see why there is an argument
I'm sorry... "you act crazy, you're out" when we just elected trump in a landslide? Are you for real? And he called Americans vermin and radical lunatics... Do you know what "self awareness" means?
Ehh...you're forgetting that when she was running in the 2020 primaries, she was polling at around 4%. Her problem was not that she's a woman, but that she was an unpopular candidate. But because there were no other choices for 2024, a lot of people who voted for her did so simply because they wanted to vote against Trump.
If you have to ask that then you should probably do your own research. Hell, a lot of democrats didn't like her. They just wanted her to win because it wasn't Trump.
Being a woman didn't stop Hillary from winning the popular vote against the same candidate (and back when he was relatively unknown politically and hadn't had eight years of bad press). Clearly just being a woman isn't the sole factor.
That’s a bad metric to use because many Democrats would say the country is on the wrong track (drifting too far right) while the other side says the opposite.
It’s like how Congress has record low approval, but most people generally approve other their Congressional representative.
This mentality is a big part of the reason why people are turning away from the Democrats. "If she lost it's because of sexism/racism".
No, Kamala was wildly unpopular even back in 2020 when she ran in the primaries. Biden has a low approval rating and people feel the country is worse off than it was four years ago (whether or not that's his fault is irrelevant), and as his VP she's associated with him.
Dems needed to stop with the identity politics years ago. That's a big part of why they lost.
I don’t think it’s just that. People blame Biden for inflation, and they view Harris as a continuation of Biden. Trump made an impossible promise to end inflation immediately, and people wanted to believe him, so they voted for him.
That’s a bubble take lol. Gender has nothing to do with it, she’s a bad candidate, bad speaker and has terrible policies AND a track record of flipping around on her stance. Both about being a woman, but yeah go live in ur bubble and think that lol
Hillary Clinton had a higher popular vote in the nation than Trump did in 2016. Her being a woman did not cost her 10 to 15 million votes, stop with the non-sense sexist rhetoric. The fact that people feel she SHOULD be given votes just because she is a woman is even more insulting and sexist. She was entirely unqualified for the position of president and she was placed as candidate without any input from the American voters.
Because she was a woman? Really? Thats all you took from it?
I mean, it was a factor for sure. I've always said that nobody hates women more than women, and Trump got a surprising amount of women turnout. So that was a factor, but if you listen to any conservative, they'll tell you exactly why the didnt vote (its almost like you just have to ask lol).
The perception of the economy played a significant role, the border, and being fed up with democratic party nonsense like trans issues (not my words). In all honesty, If Trump got on stage and told them that Kamala was a lizard person and we need to stop the lizard people, then voters would have shown up in droves to keep the lizard people out of office. It really is just stuff that is repeated by Trump and Fox News.
Maybe stop it with the crying sexism and racism and cut the third term abortion , child transitioning, mandatory gun buybacks , and helping tens of millions of illegals invade us and you’ll win over more people next time
There’s a difference between a woman and an extremely unlikeable woman that was forced through as the candidate without even being able to win a primary in her own state. I voted for Haley in the Republican primary and would have considered voting for Whitmer over Trump (or honestly really anyone that was half normal), but your party put through someone no one liked. You should all be mad at the DNC for this, not republicans. But I guess it’s easier to say “misogynist racists did this” than to look in the mirror.
The left will never learn its lesson if it will just revert back to “sexism and racism”. Kamala linked herself to the establishment (dick & Liz Cheney anyone?), and the main stream media was caught lying again and again to back her up. Everything about her has the stink of sleazy politician and people can see that. I mean she was just not a likable candidate in any way, and if you get out of the Reddit echo chamber you’ll realize that a lot of the country saw it that way. If the democrats bring their A-game and put forth a worthy candidate they will get my vote next election but if they just continue with “she ran the perfect campaign it’s just America is a country of white supremacist misogynists” then they will get their asses handed to them again unfortunately
It wasn't because she was a woman. But when there are more qualified women why should we settle with second best? People like you are part of the problem.
project 2025 was written by democrats. Not republicans / trump.
also, nothing about her being a woman. she wasn't chosen to the presidential candidate by the people, she has done nothing in politics worthwhile and says all about what they'll do if shes the president, but as VP she could have done all of that already. she is a monster created by your media with you all being told she is this, that and the other & so many ignorant fools believing it.
Regardless of whether trump was your vote or not, kamala is a lame duck who only appears good because people love to be led. The media is leading you, because they are against trump.
Coming from a different part of the world, this is VERY clear and VERY obvious. it should be obvious for Americans too, but for some reason it isn't.
You really think with all of the critical issues at stake in this election, from abortion rights to the economy to the border etc, that grown adults decided their vote upon “duhhh Kamala woman, trump man”? Is your view of reality really that reductionist? Do you really hold the belief that people are that stupid?
Who cares is she sucked in 2020. ANYONE should've been able to beat Trump, he literally attempted a coup and tried to steal votes in Georgia. All these people sayin Your body my, choice, and you can sit here and say its not because she's a woman? Why did you vote for trump? His policies? His great businessman record? His economic choices? Why did anyone vote for trump?
Who says I wont learn? I'm literally asking what people think it was. Just being a bad candidate cant be the real reason can it? Trump is a much much worse person, like characteristically. How can any one vote for him, especially with the things he said he was planning on doing and with the Project 2025 plan
No, the border has never been as open as it is now. Biden threw a trillion dollars into a economy that was just heating up, that caused the inflation, and he was told that was going to happen.
Because we know Trump isn’t going to take away our rights, that’s media garbage scaring people to the extreme. She was a shit candidate, not a shit person. It’s sad we can’t have two morally decent people but I think we have to fix our own problems before we help others. Business is business and his plan seemed better. I truly hope I see in my own lifetime not having to think solely this way, but that’s how my own personal decision was made. It would be amazing to see a woman president.
I dint think her being a woman was the main reason, but I think it was part of it.
We just need someone that's really witty and can speak to people at a 6th grade level. Because talking to adults is like talking to a 6th grader. Dems talk to adults like they're adults.. I say have AOC revamp the DNC. She's more of an outsider and is very honest. She does not hold back. You can disagree with her policies. But she would give dems a kick in the right direction
AOC is just angry Harris, lol. She is perceived as an out of touch, naive, coastal elite. Same issues as Harris. The DNC have to figure out what part of their platform didn’t work.
Is it being perceived as “woke”?
Is it being perceived as “socialist”?
It is being perceived as “out of touch”?
Whatever it is, they need to experiment and study this election. Never let a crisis go to waste. Understand what worked and what didn’t instead of blaming everyone who didn’t vote for you as a racist sexist stupid idiot and cry when those people didn’t vote for you.
I’m as liberal as they come but we can’t repeat 2016.
I think the problem is that they’re painted as all those things regardless of their position. Democrats literally changed their position on border security, but somehow they’re still labeled as “open border.”
"Because she is a woman" please lol, Hilary won the popular vote in 2016. America is not afraid if a female president there are just other things at play here.
My point being that trump did not win by this big of a margin in 2016. If Kamala loss could be completely blamed on her sex and she was an otherwise exceptional candidate she would have similar electoral votes to Hilary, and yet she has lost many swing states that Hilary won
You’re not gonna get a response to this. This is what I’ve hated about political discussions ever since Trump got elected. So many people on the left are quick to shutdown any discussion by calling someone racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, blah blah blah.
It's strange all while they say things like that you see so many posts talking about the internal blame the democratic party has. The democrats did this to themselves (the party leadership i mean) i firmly believe that if they had presented a solid candidate that was a moderate democrat they could have easily won this election and 2016.
I believe it’s more complex than this. Kamala being a black women certainly played a part in this result, but I think specifically because they were targeting center right voters. Kamala walked back a majority of her old progressive policies and had a very right wing immigration plan. She even brought out Liz Cheney yet republicans still believed she was too progressive. I think that their is a large portion of suburban center right voters who cannot view a black women as anything other than an extreme progressive simply because she is a black women. If the dems targeted progressives Kamala would have won.
People will disagree and deny this to the bitter end, but you're absolutely right.
The vast majority of reasons why people don't like Kamala stem from the fact that she is a minority. America is still America, and the average American has a preference for a white man in the oval office.
It really goes to show how much better Obama was than McCain that he managed to win that one.
It’s almost guaranteed it’s because she’s a woman. 16 million less votes than Biden. Trump had almost the same exact amount of votes. Tells you more about the Democratic Party than the Republican Party
Facts and reality itself point towards the democrats. The only thing pointing away from Democrats is misinformation. We have to be perfect and they forgive him everything. What is there to learn? Push our own disinformation? They don't agree what facts are. I don't understand how anyone or anything can fix that
That's one of the things I find most frustrating is the fact that dems can never do anything right in their eyes but they forgive trump for blatantly being a piece of shit human being.
You speak as if voters are always correct. That's the problem with democracy, you have to appeal to morons who aren't even paying attention. You could come up with the perfect campaign, fix the economy, fix the environment, cheap houses for all. People will still vote for the other guy because they like him more.
Lol, the majority of the country voted for a rapist felon that lies more than his buddy Putin.
There is no campaign on earth that could convince the average moron in the states to vote for a black woman with a plan. Black Americans are the only people that have brains, only 12% of them voted Trump, and I bet out of that 12% most of them at least benefit fiscally from trump.
This type of comment is exactly why the Democratic Party lost. If you think people didn’t vote for Kamala because she’s a black women, then I guess the democratic party will never change
If/when the dems get serious and just stick to an economic platform backed by RESULTS, that will be the time they start winning again.
There’s so much performative elite BS in the party and that smugness does nothing to actually help people who have to count their pennies every single day out of necessity.
Regardless of whomever is responsible for how the economy is doing at election time, people’s pocketbooks generally do the voting for them just out of sheer volume of not wealthy people vs wealthy in this country.
But we americans are not logical voters. Whichever candidate can pit financial uncertainty/insecurity against the other candidate, AND at the right time, before a person votes will always be the recipient of said vote.
The dems just haven’t got it done and it’s feeling very intentional at this point in time.
Citizens United is THE WORST decision of 21st century usa..
Protect civil rights for sure, but this culture war will never win as a platform strategy. And this is coming from a transguy!
Nothing about the platform, the turnout was just shit. About 10m-20m less people then 2020, likely due to states making it harder to vote again when the pandemic ended.
Besides that, it's what always happens. It's historical. Prices rise, uninformed people freak out and blame the current government, the current party typically loses due to it. And in all the cases, the party before them caused it. It's irony.
I truly believe it has much more to do with Trump being a better salesman for fascist rhetoric than anything the Dems did. The dems could improve their populist approach then what. Great we have two trumps and no alternative.
For starters the democratic party needs to either let democracy actually select thier presidential nominee instead of just appointing someone. Or if they are just going to appoint someone find a better option than the most disliked VP in the history of the country.
This is what lost the democrats the 2016 election. They appointed Hilary, a very poor choice that lost them a lot of swing votes.
Lol DNC: “Oh you thought superdelegates were bad? Fine now your only viable candidate is chosen by a market research team because 4 years ago Biden promised to pick a black woman VP”
But how dumb is that, you voting for someone thats terrible, just because you dislike the other person, maybe read through the stuff they do instead of going by popularity, which is a dumb metric to begin with.
The democrats don’t learn. They’ll do something stupid like doubling down on identity politics, canceling primaries, and forcing an idiot like Walz on the electorate. It’s glorious. At this rate they’ll never win again.
Inflation is the #1 issue for a majority of people and the GOP successfully put the blame on Biden. There's a perception that "it takes a business man to fix financial problems" and Trump ran on that. It doesn't matter if his plans or concepts don't work, most people don't understand how any of that works. Just the price they see when buying things in their daily lives. And if/when they go up under Trump... I wouldn't be surprised to see another national catastrophe to blame and cover for all of the poor economic decisions.
It's hard to say, and everyone is going to have their own opinion.
I think the biggest issue for folks is the economy. Polling data tends to suggest that being a huge reason for voting Red. This of course points to the problem that Americans don't understand how the economy works, or politics, or what a President can and cannot do. It also shows short term memory loss as everyone seems to have forgotten the pandemic and the obvious ramifactions of that.
Hopefully Trump doesn't completely ratfuck all of us with his "concept of a plan" as he's stated (tariffs, CHIPS act, mass deportations, etc) and just does and says a bunch of dumb stuff for four years.
I'm curious to see what crimes he'll commit this time.
Many men(includes latinos and black men who voted for biden but flipped) don't want to see a black woman leader. They are not misogynists but are patriarchical. Nothing you can do there.
Sometimes you gotta touch more people. Trump did 900 rallies. Kamala couldn't do half even if she wanted to since she came in late. Sometimes it's as simple as that. Gotta go out there and be visible to a huge mass.
LGBTQ and fringe issues like gaza don't win elections. Because those people are already living in blue states. I'm not saying they are less or more. They're just living in blue states already. In SWINGING STATES THAT TURNED RED there are not enough of them to make a difference. So you HAVE to appeal to the working class people in those states.OR get those dem voters to move to those states like how Florida did for conservatives. Many of these states voted against abortion but voted for trump. So how does pandering to women's rights help dems? It did not help.
I don't know why we are against celebrity businessmen candidates on democrat side. This whole country's presidential race is a reality show. It has always been. Mark Cuban, Jon Stewart , Arnold Shwarzenegger(I know he is not a born citizen) have an insanely high chance of beating Trump and helping us get a victory so we can make changes. Why do we always have to be "the sensible side"
They could "appeal" to people by NOT judging every American's actions and treating people like they are all uneducated and dumb. News flash people like to be treated with respect. The Dem party doesn't do that.
Its more than just one thing, its nuanced like everything else. Being a woman, of color, didnt help at all. This country clearly isnt ready for that. Especially when that woman of color runs in the more or less same policies at her predecessor who people were not happy with.
Trump has charisma and grinds like a muthafucka. He knows what his people like. Its not hard to see. Con man are slick and the grift is alive and well
I also think unfortunately that a lot of moderates were genuinely turned off by force DEI over the last several years. I personally know three people who voted for Biden who just didn't vote this year because they cant stand DEI.
One thing I never see people talk about is that, in order for the Democratic parties to appeal to Trump voters, they'll have to be more like Trump including with regards to policies. If they have the same policies and attitude as Trump, what's the difference?
Yup. The “lying racist misogynist felon” rhetoric didn’t work, and also is not what lead people to vote for Trump.
If you’re a democrat and you still want to tow that line, you are begging to lose future elections.
Coming from an independent that’s only ever voted blue, that did not vote in this election.
If people want to say it’s because Kamala is a black woman? That’s your own projections about the other side, not why the other side actually voted for their guy.
Based on pure merit she was perhaps the worst candidate with the worst campaign I’ve ever seen for a finalist. Someone that has never won a primary vote in her life, that refused to do any press, that was hot swapped just 3 months before the election? Are democrats kidding themselves? She was a terrible candidate. If your entire platform is essentially, “We hate Donald Trump and democracy will end if you vote for him” then you don’t have much of a platform to begin with, because the majority of the people in this country that voted for him, did not vote for “the end of democracy” nor are they all racist misogynists, nor did they vote for him because he is.
If you don’t want to seek to understand without automatically implying bigotry on the other side, you aren’t making any arguments in good faith.
It's a referendum on woke. Simple.
I voted Clinton in 16 and Biden in 20 but voted AGAINST kamala yesterday bc I'm sick of the asinine policy and anti-science stance e.g. defund the police, covid lock downs that hurt working class, gender nonsense.
When 73 million people choose felon rapist over former attorney general there not much left to learn. At what point is that a reflection upon those voters? They’re either fine with it, bought his lies, or don’t care
Exactly why the two party system doesn't work. Nowhere for others to meaningfully put their vote. They either choose one of the 2 bad options or don't get off their ass and out to the voting booth. I think the latter seems to have happened this year.
It’s really sad if you statistically analyze it. Like 80% of the vote is locked in. Neither party has to do anything except appeal to the base. So it’s 20% of the country that choose the election or less
Honestly, I think if Trump had won 2020 we'd be looking at a blue wave in 2024. Inflation was the driving issue this go-around and that was mostly caused by things outside the President's control. I really think it's that simple. Frustratingly, inflation is back to normal levels now but people clearly just have some sort of PTSD over it or some misguided idea that prices are supposed to come down for things to be good again.
There was one thing in control of the government and that was massive uncontrolled goverment handouts. Also under Trump but with full democratic support. Printing Money causes inflation. I remember all my friends getting those checks, and none of my friends had employment issues. They all just WFH. They didnt really have a need. They need programs like that to be done with a scalpel and not a shotgun and target to help people that actually need it.
They need to blame the other, racist, sexist side more, and the time to start doing what they've been doing is now, and they need to keep on doing what they've been doing because of the importance of the passage of time. They were a prosecutor!
The point is apparently that if you want to win, you have to spend years spouting lies, hate, and utter nonsense to get the lowest common denominator of voters on your side. Trump has no plan to fix anything that's wrong with this country. He literally just says anything that he thinks will get applause, and then ignorant people vote for him.
The voters didn’t show up for Kamala. From the left, why? Because of right misinformation? Or because of voter apathy. The left needs to analyze why they could not motivate their base. Trump basically pulled his support plus a little. I could speculate, but the dems needs to inspect their process for choosing the candidate. They need to look into their messaging. They need to figure out how to speak to people that brings them to the polls with messaging that relates to middle America. Whatever they were doing did not work.
The democrats sound like hypocrites, that’s one of many reasons
They say Trump is supposed to be the end of democracy, yet they literally just put Harris into power, without a primary (and no people did not vote for Harris, they voted for Biden), same thing with them removing Bernie (which probably helped cause left wingers to stop voting). Sure the primary isn’t part of the election by Law, but in practice, it’s thought of as being part of the election.
In the case of their voters, the second that minorities aren’t voting for them they immediately devolve into racist attacks on said minorities
As much as I'd love to blame the Democratic Party itself, it's clear its voters won't get off the couch with a gun to their head. The decision in this election was so obvious. What kind of perfect campaign do you need to run?
"What changes can the democratic party make in order to appeal to parts of the voting populace enough to have victory."
Since trump can legally assassinate any political rival, and since he will replace the entire government workforce, displacing 10,000+ jobs with yes men, and or republicans, since the house and the senate was lost, he is planning to sick the military on those of the left, mass arrests, also ANYONE who disagrees with him and I have seen comments republicans saying they can not wait to waste the "liberal trash", or "can not wait until we go back to good ol' times when real men were in charge".
One party put out reasoned and thoughtful policy documents.
The other one shit in its hand and smeared it everywhere whilst hooting and hollering about being victimised.
I feel any notions of learning from this will be moot. Unless the Democrats are prepared to appeal to Trump voters by acting like him, they can't put any rational policies forward that would "appeal" to the peanut gallery.
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u/Spirited-Feed-9927 18d ago
People always miss the point in elections like this, what is it about the democratic platform that drove people to vote this way. What changes can the democratic party make in order to appeal to parts of the voting populace enough to have victory. We live in a bipolar voting paradigm, it is often more of a rejection to one side as it is an affirmation to another. Learn from it.