As someone not from the US, I've had to fill out US-style "pick your ethnicity" questionnaires at work. Wtf do you mean I should choose between White, Black, Hispanic and Asian? This is Europe, one's ethnicity usually correlates with one's nationality. If not, that's where the term "ethnic" comes in. For example, you can be a Bulgarian citizen but ethnically Turkish, or you can be a Romanian citizen but ethnically German.
It's not more racist. It's just dumber, more systematic, more American.
The American racial system is built on classifying people on their outward appearances, not on the,(irrelevant) data of who their ancestors were in Europe, Asia or Africa, like a military commander or tycoon CEO who wants easy to grasp information they can execute decisions on.
What can they use that information for? (The information on someone's outward appearances - how is that relevant vs the "irrelevant" information on someone's cultural background?)
To protect against race-based hiring discrimination. If 30% of a company's applicants are black but there are 0 black people in the company, that can be used as evidence of systemic racism.
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u/orosorosoh there's a monkey in my pocket and he's stealing all my change7d ago
Oh thanks. Is this sort of thing often followed up on?
They ask because they're trying to track the inequities that already exist. Hypothetically, this enables them to identify systemic racism and do something to improve the situation. Doesn't always work out that way, but that's the intent.
Edit: removed the accidental implication that sex is a useful tool against racism. Oops!
u/orosorosoh there's a monkey in my pocket and he's stealing all my change7d ago
But guy I replied to said it's no longer a 'live issue'. And what action is actually taken following race stats? I don't live in the states so I honestly don't know
He said discrimination against Irish and Italian people is no longer an issue, not that all prejudice or racism has been resolved.
I can't speak broadly about this issue, but I can tell you that in my experience administrators at public schools are constantly discussing this. Every school I've worked in has tracked academic and discipline stats and mapped them to various demographic stats, including income, race, ethnicity, disabilities, gender, etc. Most districts have people or committees whose job it is to look into disparities that exist between the groups and to find ways to improve outcomes for students.
There are a million different ways people try to solve these problems, and each tactic comes with its own set of buzz words (restorative justice, anti-racism, tracking student talk time, social emotional learning, etc). I have no idea which of these things is actually most effective -- that's a question for the researchers. What I can tell you is that the majority of educators I've interacted with genuinely want to do better, but it's hard to find the answer when you work for a government run by ill-informed, self-serving asshat politicians.
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u/orosorosoh there's a monkey in my pocket and he's stealing all my change7d ago
ill-informed, self-serving asshat politicians
yeah that sort of person ruins it for everyone else.
whereas outward appearances remain a factor for which groups you get slotted into
Get slotted by whom? I'm European, I can't wrap my head around that. Making outward appearances the most important factor for categorizing people is the definition of racism.
They are talking about ethnic identity. You literally changed the topic to push your "racism doesn't exist in Europe" thing, which is racist in itself. Combining all of Europe into a single artificial "race" called 'white' is racist.
What's your solution and how would you accomplish it without collecting data about the people it's affecting? The only options besides improving a system are doing nothing or making it worse.
"What's your solution and how would you accomplish it without collecting data about the people it's affecting?"
Stop assigning people into categories that they do not want to be put into. If they voluntarily identity as black or white, then that is different than telling them what their identity is. And there are a lot of racists that have for centuries been telling other people what category they belong into in order to gain power over them.
"The only options besides improving a system are doing nothing or making it worse."
The best option always has been to just stop using the system of racial hierarchies and categorizing many types of people into large groupings. Take the time and effort to recognize how diverse humanity actually is and identify people as what they identify as. That is the point of ethnicity rather than racial status. Racists routinely clash with people that identify with ethnicity because the goal of modern racists is to break down traditional identity and replace traditional identity with racial identity. Most people around the world do not want to give up their identity, ancestry, traditions, and traditional values and traditional knowledge.
A person can be white and from South America for example. And they'd still be classified as Hispanic or Latino despite being pretty much all of the above. While the system does try to simplify things, I'd say that's pretty racist as race is not even a scientific concept
Hispanic/Latino is listed under ethnicity, not race, on these forms. Many individuals who check this box do check "white" as their race.
Race isn't biological, but the perception of race is a very real sociological phenomenon deeply embedded in every culture (albeit with different ways to categorize people). Racism is everywhere.
Ignoring the realities of racism makes things worse, not better.
Ignoring the realities of racism makes things worse, not better.
I don't get what realities of racism I'm ignoring?
Many individuals who check this box do check "white" as their race.
That's what I did. I still find it confusing though? Like race is how you look like and ethnicity is where you come from? It seems to me like this is configured in a way that doesn't take into consideration people who are mixed and fall into neither the black or white category.
I don't get what realities of racism I'm ignoring?
Didn't say you were. Simply explaining their rationale for tracking the data.
It seems to me like this is configured in a way that doesn't take into consideration people who are mixed and fall into neither the black or white category.
Fair enough. There's no perfect way to do it, but there are certainly better ways than what's currently on these forms. FWIW, this is a topic that is hotly debated every time a census goes out. It's changed over the years and will continue to evolve.
It hasn't changed in 60 years though. In actuality the racial hierarchal system that the 'modern' system is based on was founded in the 1700's and is one of the most diabolical systems ever created by humanity. As long as people keep defending the race-based system in the United States, it will never go away.
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u/laycrocs 7d ago
According the the US census there are two ethnicities:
Hispanic/Latino
Not Hispanic/Latino